Jiddish related to Gothic? Khazars

Tue Jun 10 22:50:01 UTC 2014

yea who cares about the jewish  thing......we all know it was taken up thru European influence...
but the jewish lingo is far removed from goth man... 

On Tuesday, June 10, 2014 3:23 PM, "Tore Gannholm tore at gannholm.org [gothic-l]" <gothic-l at yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Khazaria and Volga Bulgaria
The Khazars, a semi-nomadic Turkish people
closely related to the Bulgarians, established one of the largest polities of
medieval Eurasia, with Atil as the capital (note 29).
Their territory was comprising much of modern-day European Russia, western
Kazakhstan, eastern Ukraine, Azerbaijan, large portions of the northern
Caucasus (Circassia, Dagestan), parts of Georgia, the Crimea, and
northeastern Turkey. They played a role in the balance of powers and destiny of
the world civilization. After Kubrat’s Great Bulgaria was destroyed by the
Khazars in the 600s, some of the Bulgars fled to the west and founded a new
Bulgar state (presentday Bulgaria)
near the Danubian Plain, under the command of Khan Asparukh. The rest of the
Bulgars fled to the north of the Volga River region and founded at the big bend
in the Volga in Russia’s heart, where the river Kama flows into the Volga, the
Volga Bulgaria kingdom with its capital Bolghar. The Volga Bulgaria’s heyday
occurred in the 900s. At that time they adopted Muhammad’s teachings.
The area south of the kingdom of the Volga
Bulgars, between the Caspian and Black Seas, accordingly belonged to the
Khazars. Khazaria had an on- going entente with Byzantium. The Khazars aided
the Byzantine emperor Heraclius (reigned 610–641)
by sending an army of 40,000 soldiers in his campaign against the Persians in the
Byzantine–Sassanid War of 602–628. They also served their partner in wars
against the Abbasid Caliphate.Sarkel (a Turkish word meaning White Fortress)
was built in the 830s by a joint team of Greek and Khazar architects to protect
the north-western border of the Khazar state. The chief engineer during the
construction of Sarkel was Petronas Kamateros who later became the governor of
Cherson.
Khazaria was the first feudal state to be
established in Eastern Europe. According to ibn Khordadhbehthe
Khazarian Jewish merchants (Radhanites)
were responsible for the commerce between southwestern Asia and northern
Europe, as well as the connectionto the Silk Road. The name ‘Khazar’ is
found in numerous languages and seems to be tied to a Turkish verb form meaning
‘wandering’ (Modern Turkish:Gezer).
Pax Khazarica is a term used by historians to refer to the period during which
Khazaria dominated the Pontic steppe and the Caucasus Mountains.
The Gotlandic Varangians made regular commercial
trips to the Khazar capital Atil at the lower Volga and the city of Bolghar in
the country of theVolga Bulgars in the region of Kamas’ inflow in the Volga
river.
After fighting the Arabs to a standstill in the North Caucasus, Khazars
became increasingly interestedin replacing their Tengriism with a state religion that would give
them equal religious standing with their Abrahamic neighbors. During the 800s,
the Khazar royalty and much of the aristocracy converted to a form of Judaism.
Yitzhak ha-Sangari is the name of the rabbi who converted the Khazars to
Judaism according to Jewish sources.
Khazars were judged according to Tōra
(orders of the Khagan; coming from the root Tōr
meaning customs; unwrittenlaw of people in Old Turkic) (Modern
Turkish: Töre), while the other tribes were judged according
to their own laws.
Being a surprisingly tolerant and pluralistic society, even
its army incorporated Jews, Christians, Muslims and Pagans at a time when
religious warfare was the order of the day around the Mediterranean and in
Western Europe. By welcoming educated and worldly Jews from both Christian
Europe and the Islamic Middle East, Khazaria rapidly absorbed many of the arts
and technologies of civilization.
As a direct result of this cultural infusion,
they became one of the very few Asian steppe tribal societies that successfully
made the transition from nomad to urbanite. Settling in their newly created
towns and cities between the Caspian Sea and the Crimean Peninsula on the Black
Sea, they became literate and multi-lingual agriculturalists, manufacturers and
international traders.
The Islamic Bulgars in the Volga river bend and
Khazaria were the two main cross points for theArab traderoutes. The main imported good straded in these markets were furs,
slaves and weapons. According to ibn Rustah and ibn Haukal, al-Rus’ delivered
the first two mentioned in Khazaria andVolga Bulgaria. Ibn Rustah and Gurdesi
explain that
the Varangians refused to accept anything else
but jingling silver coins for their goods.
Between 965 and 969, Khazar
sovereignty was broken by the Kievan Rus’. Sviatoslav I of Kiev defeated them
in 965 by conquering the Khazar fortress of Sarkel. Two years later, Sviatoslav
conquered Atil. 
On 10 Jun 2014, at 21:59, Yair Davidiy britam at netvision.net.il [gothic-l] <gothic-l at yahoogroups.com> wrote:

At 10:52 AM 6/10/2014, you wrote:
>
>  
>>
>>Hi Dirk,
>>This was not the question.
>>
>>What language did they speak in Khazaria when they converted to Judaism beginning 800s and became the worlds largest Jewish state.
>>
>>Alla later Jews in Russia, Ukraine, Poland and Lituania originates from those converted in Khazaria.
>>
>>It was a mixed country with Turkish, a few slavic languages and a large Gothic speaking group together with Hebrew Rabbis that were imported.
>>
>>Tore
>Were the Khazars Turkish?
>The Khazars in Central Asia may have spoken a Turkish dialect as did some white "Nordic" peoples, some "Turkish" peoples and some "Mongolians". 
>It is not even certain however what language the Khazars really did speak since all we have are a few "Runes" that appear like a Central Asian Turkish-related dialect and MAY belong to the Khazars. At one stage the Turks did rule for a period over the Khazars and they did dominate the region of Southern Russia. So some influence was to be expected.
> This does not say much and even this is uncertain. Some of the Khazars  are believed to have spoken a Finnish-type language. Avraham Polak ("Kuzaria", Hebrew) believed their original tongue was a Gothic dialect.  We think they originally spoke Hebrew. 
>The Khazars were reported of in southern Russia long before the Turks were ever heard of.
>A letter from King Joseph of Khazaria relates the Khazars to Togarmah  (son of Gomer son of Noah) who is believed to have been the ancestor of the Turks.
>There are however  several versions of this letter. It has been doctored. The segment relating them to Togarmah appears from its style to be an interpolation. 
>The Ruling House of the Khazars (according to a Persian source) was known as Ansa.
>The ruling house of the Turks was the Asena. It is has been proposed that Ansa and Asina are the same. They may be. We do not know.
>More evidence is required.
>The Ruling House of the Khazars was known as Ansa in Arabic and in another Arabic source as Ayishai. Both these forms Ansa and Ayishai are considered  the equivalent of the Hebrew "Yishai"  i.e. Jesse.  The House of Jesse i.e. the House of David.
>Most contemporary Jewish sources relate the Khazars to Israel. Sources that relate them to Togarmah are mainly later ones and less reliable. Those who knew them at first hand considered them Israelite.
>Abraham Polak believed the Khazars were Goths. 
>Vladimir Pomakov said they were Scythians and Slavs descended from the ancient Cimmerians and Massagetae.
>There is little evidence of Turkish input. All that there was can easily be explained by cultural contact.
>The Khazars themselves said they were of Israelite descent.
>The evidence shows that the Khazars should be believed. 
>
>
>
>
>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/gothic-l/attachments/20140610/1f6680ee/attachment.htm>