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<p>--- In <a href="mailto:gothic-l%40yahoogroups.com">gothic-l@yahoogroup<wbr>s.com</a>, Michael Erwin <merwin@...> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Hails,<br>
> <br>
> Ik im ussiggwands Patrick Amory, "People and Identity in Ostrogothic <br>
> Italy, 489-554." Jah meljandaries qitham ei Wulfila skapjau ain razda <br>
> "far removed from any common parlance when it was written" (p. 239). <br>
> Nu anthar meljandarjos qithand samaleiko. Ak ni frathja hwaiwa wisai. <br>
> Jabai Wulfila sokidedi ain ainbruka aiklessiatuggo, habidedi <br>
> Graikarazda jah Latina(razda)<wbr>.<br>
<br>
Hails Michael!<br>
<br>
Here's my guess at one way to express this in Gothic (no doubt there<br>
are other possibilities, equally convincing if not more so): Ik<br>
(us)siggwa / Ik anakunna ... Jah meljands qaž/qižiž/melida žatei<br>
Wulfila gaskapida razda ((žo) sei razdai gamainjai fairra afhabaiž<br>
sik). Anžarai meljands nu samaleiko qižand. Akei ni fražja hvaiwa<br>
magi swa wisan. Jabai Wulfila tuggon sokidedi inniujida ei fram<br>
aikkljesjon ainai brukidedi, duhve nih Kreke razda nih Rumone ni<br>
gawalidedi?<br>
<br>
> The word order usually follows the Greek. The vocabulary is of course <br>
> very Gothic. The dative absolute has Greek and Latin parallels, not <br>
> Germanic ones. The remnant dual doesn't fit the 'artificial language' <br>
> hypothesis. It could fit the 'specialized language' hypothesis.<br>
> <br>
> The order of books (in Argenteus) is western; many readings are <br>
> western; some readings are unique. (I have no Vetus Latina text but <br>
> 1st Timothy 1:10 matches Vulgate structure while contradicting <br>
> Vulgate meaning; I understand it doesn't match any known Greek text).<br>
<br>
I don't know how these terms 'specialized language' and 'artificial<br>
language' are defined by Patrick Amory, nor exactly how far removed he<br>
intended "far removed" to mean. I suppose it's all a matter of<br>
emphasis. But taken literally or to an extreme the idea of Gothic<br>
being 'artifical' can become ridiculous; it would make no sense for<br>
someone trying to promote Christianity among the Goths to begin by<br>
translating the Bible into a language that diliberately avoided what<br>
what natural Gothic, and this wouldn't explain the many small but<br>
regular divergeances from the syntax of the original. Could you<br>
elabourate on the similarity / differenece between 1Tim 1:10 in Gothic<br>
and the Vulgate?<br>
<br>
As you say, the Gothic translation seems to follow the Greek word<br>
order wherever possible. The deviations that do exist offer an<br>
interesting clue to the limits of flexibility in Gothic word order. <br>
Another sort of clue to Gothic word order comes from instances like<br>
1Tim 1:10 where Gothic turns a Greek compound into a phrase --<br>
although even here we have to be careful, as in certain types of<br>
construction Gothic tends to replicate the order of elements in the<br>
Greek compound. Yes, the vocabulary is mostly Germanic. Apart from a<br>
few naturalised loans, most of the borrowing in the Bible consists of<br>
proper names and a handful of technical terms relating to the<br>
Christian or Jewish religions. It seems likely that the syntax has<br>
been influenced at many points (in other ways besides word order) by<br>
Greek, e.g. the heavy use of present participles, in contrast to the<br>
other old Germanic languages, although of course present participles<br>
exist in these languages and were used in a more limited way. <br>
Likewise the dative absolute: this is also known in Old Norse, and<br>
there is no reason to think that it was invented by Wulfila (and if it<br>
had been, wouldn't it be genitive like Greek?), but it may well have<br>
been used more heavily that it would normally due to the desire to<br>
make as literal a translation as could be.<br>
<br>
Go. at sunnin žan urrinnandin, at urrinnandin sunnin<br>
"when the sun rose, at sunrise"<br>
Go. at Iesu ufdaupidamma "when Jesus had been baptised"<br>
<br>
ON at upprennandi sólu "when the sun came up, at sunrise"<br>
ON at lišnum vetri "when the winter had passed"<br>
ON at Gamla fallinn "after the fall of Gamli"<br>
ON at honum öndušum "after his death"<br>
ON at sér lifanda "during his lifetime"<br>
ON at öllum įsjįndum "in the sight of all"<br>
<br>
The difference being that the ON examples are more strict about the<br>
tense of the verb, and as far as I know don't omit the 'at'.<br>
<br>
Anyway, the choice of vocabulary in the Gothic, use of verbal<br>
prefixes, use of cases, show a great deal of independence from the<br>
Greek. I'm not aware of any influence on morphology from the source<br>
text, as far as native words go, and can't see why there would be --<br>
or how there could be without needlessly risking incomprehensibility<wbr>.<br>
But the Greek influence is very prevelant in word order, up to a<br>
point, and there are many idiomatic expressions which seem to have<br>
been translated word for word, as far as the language allowed. We<br>
don't know how much technical vocabulary was coined for the<br>
translation in the form of calques: this is another potential source<br>
of artificiality.<br>
<br>
Llama Nom<br>
<br>
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