<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">
<html>
<head>
</head>
<!-- Network content -->
<body style="background-color: #ffffff;">
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStartT|**|-~-->
<div id="ygrp-mlmsg" style="width:655px; position:relative;">
<div id="ygrp-msg" style="width: 490px; padding: 0 15px 0 0; float:left; z-index:1;">
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEndT|**|-~-->
<div id="ygrp-text">
<p>Orel has *žekwuz for thick with related words *žekojanan, *žekwižo, <br>
and perhaps *žunguz, *žumon, *žusjaz and *žus-. That also should point<br>
to Go. *žiqus which might be added to synonomize digrs and maybe in<br>
related senses *grauts, *stiur(ei)s, *stors, *stuts, *tauhs, *trums,<br>
*trius, *žuggs, *frams. <br>
<br>
He also gives *merk(w)az for murky. The Goths might also have used for<br>
this meaning *blaus (?*bleus), *dagqs, *dimms, *dairks, *dusks,<br>
*airps, *glums, *kźms, *salus, *swarts, *žimstrs, *žims (*žims-),<br>
riqizeins...<wbr>.<br>
<br>
--- In <a href="mailto:gothic-l%40yahoogroups.com">gothic-l@yahoogroup<wbr>s.com</a>, "llama_nom" <600cell@...<wbr>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Also, I'd be interested to hear any opinions on potential cognates of<br>
> 'thick' and 'murk'. I'm not at all knowledgeable about PIE, but both<br>
> have cognates outside of Germanic; are theer any clues there that<br>
> could help to decide the declension? Old English has ja/jo-stems:<br>
> 'žicce' and 'mierce', but their Modern English reflexes show no sign<br>
> of palatisation. In the case of the latter, at least, this might be<br>
> due to its being influenced by, or reintroduced by, the Norse cognate:<br>
> 'myrkr', masc. ac. sg. 'myrkvan'. Otherwise, the OED speculates that<br>
> the palatisation in English might have been blocked by an intervening<br>
> -w-. I suppose an alternative could be that palatisation failed, if<br>
> it was an old u-stem, and non-palatised forms were generalised from<br>
> those parts of the declension with no following 'i', 'j'. Koebler<br>
> reconstructs Go. *žiqus, on the basis of It. 'attecchire'<wbr>, OFrench<br>
> 'tehir', the Germanic word, *žek(k)uz?, being from < PIE *tegu-. So<br>
> I'm wondering which seems better: Go. *mairqeis (as OE mierce, OS<br>
> mirki), or Go. mairqus, given that little remains of the u-stems<br>
> outside of Gothic, and that many of the Gothic u-stems exist as<br>
> ja/jo-stems in OE?<br>
> <br>
> LN<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> --- In <a href="mailto:gothic-l%40yahoogroups.com">gothic-l@yahoogroup<wbr>s.com</a>, "llama_nom" <600cell@> wrote:<br>
> ><br>
> > <br>
> > > *arus (adj. wa) "quick" < Gmc. *arwaz<br>
> > <br>
> > Ah, yes. Thanks for that one. Any relation to *arwjo (Koebler: ohne<br>
> > sichere Etymologie)? I'm not sure what the semantics of that would be<br>
> > though: more haste less speed...? Koebler cites the personal names<br>
> > Arosinda, Aragunti, Armirus. Medial vowels in Migration Era Germanic<br>
> > personal names recorded by Classical authors are notoriously variable.<br>
> > Alternatively, could these be from 'ara' "eagle"? How well are these<br>
> > attested as naming elements attested in the other Germanic languages,<br>
> > I wonder. Incidentally, does anyone know what the loanword (or<br>
> > loanwords) is that Gamillscheg'<wbr>s *arž- "Wohnsitz, Aufenthalt;<br>
> > residence, domicile" is based on. All the other Germanic dialects, as<br>
> > far as I know, would be in keeping with PG *arduz, with -d-, but then<br>
> > we have Go. blož, gen. bložis, so I suppose it's not impossible that<br>
> > Gothic was the odd one out here too.<br>
> > <br>
> > > *aiws (Mu/i) "age" < Gmc. *aiwaz<br>
> > <br>
> > It follows a mixed (w)a/i declension in Gothic, doesn't it? dat. pl.<br>
> > 'aiwam', acc. pl. 'aiwins'.<br>
> > <br>
> > > Hm. Not sure. Maybe I would do this: salus salwa-, falus falwa-...<br>
> > <br>
> > Maybe... That's another possibility I hadn't thought of. Although<br>
> > such a variation isn't actually attested in the sparse remains of<br>
> > Gothic as written, and we have got masc. nom. sg. 'manwus', and no<br>
> > examples of such a variation after a consonant. But there seem to be<br>
> > some conflicting views out there about, for example, 'manwus'. Is it<br>
> > from *manwaz [<br>
> > <a href="http://www.dbnl.org/tekst/boer043sync01/boer043sync01_001.htm">http://www.dbnl.<wbr>org/tekst/<wbr>boer043sync01/<wbr>boer043sync01_<wbr>001.htm</a> ], or<br>
> > *manuz [ <a href="http://us.share.geocities.com/iliria1/etymology1.html">http://us.share.<wbr>geocities.<wbr>com/iliria1/<wbr>etymology1.<wbr>html</a> ]? The<br>
> > alternation 'glaggwaba' : 'glaggwuba' suggests a sound change:<br>
> > unstressed 'a' > 'u' after 'w'.<br>
> > <br>
> > > Unfortunately we never see *taihswa in a strong masculine<br>
nominative?<br>
> > <br>
> > At least we can tell that it hasn't been assimilated to the u-<br>
> > (u-/ja-) declension, since there's no -j- intervening before the<br>
> > ending. But maybe it's use as exclusively a weak adjective would have<br>
> > forestalled the assimilation to the u-stems that others of its<br>
> > declension may have undergone. Is a Gothic origin posited for Italian<br>
> > 'salavo'?<br>
> > <br>
> > > I would lean not toward unetymology because I have the information I<br>
> > > cannot avoid, nor pretend error or "casuality".<br>
> > <br>
> > I'm not quite sure what you're saying here. If you mean: when in<br>
> > doubt, reconstruct etymologically 'correct' or regular forms, rather<br>
> > than analogically altered forms, I'd tend to agree except where a<br>
> > regular pattern of analogical alteration is attested in the language<br>
> > (e.g. the treatment of neuter ez-stems as neuter a-stems: agis, sigis,<br>
> > hatis).<br>
> > <br>
> > LN<br>
> > <br>
> > <br>
> > --- In <a href="mailto:gothic-l%40yahoogroups.com">gothic-l@yahoogroup<wbr>s.com</a>, "thiudans" <thiudans@> wrote:<br>
> > ><br>
> > > Hm. Not sure. Maybe I would do this: salus salwa-, falus falwa-...<br>
> > > <br>
> > > Orel has *salwaz and *falwaz in PGmc, but for shadow he has *skaduz,<br>
> > > *skadwaz. He has for skaus *skawaz, for few *fauhaz or *fahwaz; but<br>
> > > *manwuz is a (w)u-stem. There is gothic farwa- (ns. farus?)<br>
> > > appearance, appearing in Orel as *farhwo'. Of course, Gothic *badus<br>
> > > has only common Gmc. precursor *badwo'. Also there is<br>
> > > <br>
> > > *aiws (Mu/i) "age" < Gmc. *aiwaz<br>
> > > *arus (adj. wa) "quick" < Gmc. *arwaz<br>
> > > <br>
> > > Unfortunately we never see *taihswa in a strong masculine<br>
nominative?<br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > I would lean not toward unetymology because I have the information I<br>
> > > cannot avoid, nor pretend error or "casuality".<br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > --- In <a href="mailto:gothic-l%40yahoogroups.com">gothic-l@yahoogroup<wbr>s.com</a>, "llama_nom" <600cell@> wrote:<br>
> > > ><br>
> > > > <br>
> > > > <br>
> > > > I'm very tentatively leaning towards *salwus, *falwus...<br>
> > > > <br>
> > > > <br>
> > > > --- In <a href="mailto:gothic-l%40yahoogroups.com">gothic-l@yahoogroup<wbr>s.com</a>, "llama_nom" <600cell@> wrote:<br>
> > > > ><br>
> > > > > <br>
> > > > > Does anyone have any thoughts on the best way to reconstruct<br>
> > > > > hypothetical Gothic cognates for English 'sallow' and 'fallow'?<br>
> > Pure<br>
> > > > > u-stems: *salus (cp. skadus < *skadwaz)? Wa-stems: *salws? Or<br>
> > > > > u-stems from original wa-stems with -w- retained as part of the<br>
> > stem:<br>
> > > > > *salwus (cp. manwus)? And is it significant that the surviving<br>
> > > > > wa-stem adjectives have long roots -- CVCC (triggws), CVCV<br>
> > (lasiws) --<br>
> > > > > or a monosyllabic root ending in a short vowel: CV (*faus,<br>
*qius,<br>
> > > > > *unskaus)?<br>
> > > > > <br>
> > > > > LN<br>
> > > > ><br>
> > > ><br>
> > ><br>
> ><br>
><br>
<br>
</p>
</div>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~-->
<span width="1" style="color: white;">__._,_.___</span>
<!-- Start the section with Message In topic -->
<div id="ygrp-actbar">
<span class="left">
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/message/9470;_ylc=X3oDMTM0OWM0NmVjBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BG1zZ0lkAzk0OTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMTc1MzI2OTI5BHRwY0lkAzk0NzA-">
Messages in this topic </a> (<span class="bld">0</span>)
</span>
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwdW9oaWxjBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BG1zZ0lkAzk0OTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMTc1MzI2OTI5?act=reply&messageNum=9492">
<span class="bld">
Reply </span> (via web post)
</a> |
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlZnA2cmo5BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTE3NTMyNjkyOQ--" class="bld">
Start a new topic </a>
</div>
<!------- Start Nav Bar ------>
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<div id="ygrp-vitnav">
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/messages;_ylc=X3oDMTJlYjB2djE0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA21zZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTE3NTMyNjkyOQ--">Messages</a>
| <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJlOTAxcWpoBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA21icnMEc3RpbWUDMTE3NTMyNjkyOQ--">Members</a>
</div>
<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
<!-- Do not have place to put it yet -->
<div id="ygrp-grft">
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
You are a member of the Gothic-L list. To unsubscribe, send a blank email to <gothic-l-unsubscribe@egroups.com>.
<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
</div>
<!-- yahoo logo -->
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<div id="ygrp-ft">
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJkbXMzMGhiBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMTc1MzI2OTI5">
<img src="http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif" height="15" width="106" border="0" alt="Yahoo! Groups"></a> <br>
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/join;_ylc=X3oDMTJmdWd0bzBrBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3N0bmdzBHN0aW1lAzExNzUzMjY5Mjk-">Change settings via the Web</a> (Yahoo! ID required) <br>
Change settings via email: <a href="mailto:gothic-l-digest@yahoogroups.com?subject=Email Delivery: Digest">Switch delivery to Daily Digest</a> | <a href = "mailto:gothic-l-traditional@yahoogroups.com?subject=Change Delivery Format: Traditional">Switch format to Traditional</a> <br>
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l;_ylc=X3oDMTJkaWprdjZ2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2hwZgRzdGltZQMxMTc1MzI2OTI5">
Visit Your Group
</a> |
<a href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">
Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use </a> |
<a href="mailto:gothic-l-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=">
Unsubscribe </a>
</div> <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
</div> <!-- ygrp-msg -->
<!-- Sponsor -->
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<div id="ygrp-sponsor" style="width:140px;float: left; clear: none; margin-left: 5px; background:white; margin-bottom:25px ;position:absolute; top:0; right: 0;">
<!-- Network content -->
<!-- Start vitality -->
<div id="ygrp-vital">
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l;_ylc=X3oDMTJlbDNpNjM3BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTE3NTMyNjkyOQ--">
Visit Your Group </a>
</div>
<div id="hd">SPONSORED LINKS</div>
<div id="ov">
<ul>
<li><a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/gads;_ylc=X3oDMTJjbG1sdm1vBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BF9wAzEEZ3JwSWQDMTAyMDU5OARncnBzcElkAzE3MDU3MzkyMDYEc2VjA3NsbW9kBHN0aW1lAzExNzUzMjY5Mjk-?t=ms&k=Nh+lake+region+real+estate&w1=Nh+lake+region+real+estate&w2=New+hampshire+lake+region+real+estate&c=2&s=75&g=2&.sig=HcA2Gka9ver96eXrT3Jqlg">Nh lake region real estate</a></li>
<li><a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/gads;_ylc=X3oDMTJjZjQ1djJyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BF9wAzIEZ3JwSWQDMTAyMDU5OARncnBzcElkAzE3MDU3MzkyMDYEc2VjA3NsbW9kBHN0aW1lAzExNzUzMjY5Mjk-?t=ms&k=New+hampshire+lake+region+real+estate&w1=Nh+lake+region+real+estate&w2=New+hampshire+lake+region+real+estate&c=2&s=75&g=2&.sig=VzceW82Yh9iNe-OnKKJhSA">New hampshire lake region real estate</a></li>
</ul>
</div>
<!-- Network content -->
<div id="nc">
<div class="ad">
<div id="hd1">Top Scientist</div>
<p><a href="http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12joop1tt/M=493064.10322711.10977673.9997527/D=groups/S=1705739206:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1175334129/A=4438957/R=0/SIG=111octuig/*http://www.bix.com/contest/5406">10 Greatest Ever</a></p>
<p>Share and vote</p>
<p>on Bix.com!</p> </div>
<div class="ad">
<div id="hd1">New business?</div>
<p><a href="http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12i9lp8ac/M=493064.9803227.10510220.8674578/D=groups/S=1705739206:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1175334129/A=3848640/R=0/SIG=131an6mds/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/srchv2.php?o=US2002&cmp=Yahoo&ctv=Groups1&s=Y&s2=&s3=&b=50">Get new customers.</a></p>
<p>List your web site</p>
<p>in Yahoo! Search.</p> </div>
<div class="ad">
<div id="hd1">Y! GeoCities</div>
<p><a href="http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12i9e2gdc/M=493064.9803219.10510212.8674578/D=groups/S=1705739206:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1175334129/A=3848530/R=0/SIG=11vts2tqq/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=42416/*http://geocities.yahoo.com/">Share Your Resume</a></p>
<p>Show off your</p>
<p>talent and skills.</p> </div>
</div>
</div> <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
<div style="clear:both; color: #FFF; font-size:1px;">.</div>
</div> <img src="http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=1020598/grpspId=1705739206/msgId=9492/stime=1175326929/nc1=4438957/nc2=3848640/nc3=3848530" width="1" height="1"> <br>
<span style="color: white;">__,_._,___</span>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~-->
</body>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~-->
<head>
<style type="text/css">
<!--
#ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px; font-family: arial,helvetica,clean,sans-serif;*font-size:small;*font:x-small;}
#ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;}
#ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {font:99% arial,helvetica,clean,sans-serif;}
#ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {font:115% monospace;*font-size:100%;}
#ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;}
#ygrp-text{
font-family: Georgia;
}
#ygrp-text p{
margin: 0 0 1em 0;
}
#ygrp-tpmsgs{
font-family: Arial;
clear: both;
}
#ygrp-vitnav{
padding-top: 10px;
font-family: Verdana;
font-size: 77%;
margin: 0;
}
#ygrp-vitnav a{
padding: 0 1px;
}
#ygrp-actbar{
clear: both;
margin: 25px 0;
white-space:nowrap;
color: #666;
text-align: right;
}
#ygrp-actbar .left{
float: left;
white-space:nowrap;
}
.bld{font-weight:bold;}
#ygrp-grft{
font-family: Verdana;
font-size: 77%;
padding: 15px 0;
}
#ygrp-ft{
font-family: verdana;
font-size: 77%;
border-top: 1px solid #666;
padding: 5px 0;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg #logo{
padding-bottom: 10px;
}
#ygrp-vital{
background-color: #e0ecee;
margin-bottom: 20px;
padding: 2px 0 8px 8px;
}
#ygrp-vital #vithd{
font-size: 77%;
font-family: Verdana;
font-weight: bold;
color: #333;
text-transform: uppercase;
}
#ygrp-vital ul{
padding: 0;
margin: 2px 0;
}
#ygrp-vital ul li{
list-style-type: none;
clear: both;
border: 1px solid #e0ecee;
}
#ygrp-vital ul li .ct{
font-weight: bold;
color: #ff7900;
float: right;
width: 2em;
text-align:right;
padding-right: .5em;
}
#ygrp-vital ul li .cat{
font-weight: bold;
}
#ygrp-vital a {
text-decoration: none;
}
#ygrp-vital a:hover{
text-decoration: underline;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #hd{
color: #999;
font-size: 77%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov{
padding: 6px 13px;
background-color: #e0ecee;
margin-bottom: 20px;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov ul{
padding: 0 0 0 8px;
margin: 0;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov li{
list-style-type: square;
padding: 6px 0;
font-size: 77%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov li a{
text-decoration: none;
font-size: 130%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #nc {
background-color: #eee;
margin-bottom: 20px;
padding: 0 8px;
}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad{
padding: 8px 0;
}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{
font-family: Arial;
font-weight: bold;
color: #628c2a;
font-size: 100%;
line-height: 122%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad a{
text-decoration: none;
}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{
text-decoration: underline;
}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad p{
margin: 0;
}
o {font-size: 0; }
.MsoNormal {
margin: 0 0 0 0;
}
#ygrp-text tt{
font-size: 120%;
}
blockquote{margin: 0 0 0 4px;}
.replbq {margin:4}
-->
</style>
</head>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~-->
</html><!--End group email -->