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<p>--- In <a href="mailto:gothic-l%40yahoogroups.com">gothic-l@yahoogroup<wbr>s.com</a>, "Ingemar Nordgren" <ingemar@...<wbr>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> --- In <a href="mailto:gothic-l%40yahoogroups.com">gothic-l@yahoogroup<wbr>s.com</a>, "llama_nom" <600cell@> wrote:<br>
> ><br>
> > <br>
> > <br>
> > Also, I'd be interested to hear any opinions on potential cognates of<br>
> > 'thick' and 'murk'. --<br>
> <br>
> In the case of the latter, at least, this might be<br>
> > due to its being influenced by, or reintroduced by, the Norse cognate:<br>
> > 'myrkr', masc. ac. sg. 'myrkvan'. Otherwise, the OED speculates that<br>
> > the palatisation in English might have been blocked by an intervening<br>
> ---<br>
> <br>
> > I'm wondering which seems better: Go. *mairqeis (as OE mierce, OS<br>
> > mirki), or Go. mairqus, given that little remains of the u-stems<br>
> > outside of Gothic, and that many of the Gothic u-stems exist as<br>
> > ja/jo-stems in OE?<br>
> > <br>
> > LN<br>
> > <br>
> <br>
> Hi Llama non!<br>
> <br>
> As you well know I am not at all a linguist, but still I dare prefer<br>
> 'mairqus' since there is often a similarity with<br>
> Nortgermanic/<wbr>Scandinavian in Gothic like e.g. the lack of definite<br>
> article and also many other likenesses. I know this is controversial<br>
> but still... Also Anglo-Saxon might be influenced by e.g. the Jutes <br>
> and OE is still more influenced later by Scandinavian tounge.<br>
> Westgermanic anyhow should be the language group being most far away<br>
> from Gothic.<br>
> <br>
> Best<br>
> Ingemar<br>
><br>
<br>
Hails Iggwimer!<br>
<br>
Interesting subject this, and one that I certainly don't have all the<br>
answers to. The use of the demonstrative as a definite article<br>
increased as time went by in the various Germanic dialects. From the<br>
earliest examples of English and Norse poetry, both traditions look<br>
much more like Gothic in this respect than later Old English and Old<br>
Norse prose. A while ago I made some diagrams to show one other<br>
rather arcane way in which the various Germanic languages are similar<br>
/ dissimilar, namely the choice of voiced or unvoiced endings in<br>
certain verbal inflections [<br>
<a href="http://www.oe.eclipse.co.uk/nom/verner.htm">http://www.oe.<wbr>eclipse.co.<wbr>uk/nom/verner.<wbr>htm</a> ]. In this one respect,<br>
Gothic most resembles North Germanic and (Proto) Old High German --<br>
and is furthest from English / Frisian. But then there are details<br>
such as the 'sharpening' of geminite semivowels: ww > ggw; jj > NG<br>
ggj, Go. ddj; and the assignment of gender among the an- / on-stems --<br>
where Gothic agrees with North Germanic against West Germanic. And<br>
then there are other trends that cut across the boundaries of the<br>
traditional three-way division, e.g. within North Germanic, there is<br>
the failure of a-umlaut the further east you go, till you get to<br>
Gotland where there's none at all but instead a rule about lowering of<br>
[u] to [o] before /r/, as in Gothic. And of course, there are lots of<br>
details on which North and West Germanic agree, although some of these<br>
might be innovations. In particular, there is the close relationship<br>
between English and Norse, not all of it due to contact in the Viking<br>
Age. And, of course, the drawing up of a family tree of languages has<br>
to take into account later contacts between the different groups,<br>
which certainly took place between the North Germanic people and their<br>
relatives to the south-east..<wbr>.<br>
<br>
As for the declension of adjectives, WG, and in particular Old English<br>
preserves some interesting distinctions that were lost quite early in<br>
North Germanic, such as u-stem adjectives as a distinct category. <br>
This was presumably once a feature all the Germanic dialects shared. <br>
But even in OE, the category is very much reduced, and former u-stems<br>
have mostly gone over to the a/o-stems and ja/jo-stems (which is were<br>
we find 'mierce'). Often former u-stems fluctuate between these two<br>
declensions in OE, but according to Campbell (Old Emglish Grammar)<br>
that's not a sure fire way of detecting them. So, suffice to say: you<br>
may well be right.<br>
<br>
LN<br>
<br>
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