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<p>Hailai,<br>
<br>
How would you explain the fragment Skeir. 7:7<br>
<br>
akei nauh us þamma filu mais siponjans fullafahida jah anşarans <br>
gamaudida gaumjan, şatei is was sa sama, saei in auşidai •m• jere <br>
attans ize fodida...<br>
<br>
"but much more from this (five loaves and two fishes) he (Jesus) had <br>
satisfied the disciples and reminded the others to see that he was <br>
THE SAME WHO FED THEIR FATHERS IN THE DESERT FOUR HUNDRED YEARS".<br>
<br>
As you see Jesus is literally identified with God Father. Is this <br>
view really Arian? If not, how did it get here?<br>
<br>
Ualarauans<br>
<br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
From: "Wolfgang Franz" <wolfgang.franz@<wbr>...><br>
To: <<a href="mailto:gothic-l%40yahoogroups.com">gothic-l@yahoogroup<wbr>s.com</a>><br>
Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 2:35 AM<br>
Subject: Re: [gothic-l] Re: Arain Christian influence on Islam<br>
<br>
I think it can't be emphazised often enough: Arius did not deny the <br>
divinity<br>
of the Christ. For Arius Christ was created before creation but in <br>
time. But<br>
the Christ (the logos) was created. And this is the difference to <br>
the rest<br>
of<br>
christianity: That He was created while in the creed of Nicaia He is<br>
procreated. In Arius' opinion the logos was god second class but god<br>
nevertheless.<br>
<br>
What you describe is adoptianism, condemned always when it came <br>
around in<br>
the<br>
early church. In the course of the bitter struggle about the trinity <br>
after<br>
the council of Nicaia some radical arianists (Aetius) became <br>
adoptianists as<br>
well. But the original Arius was not.<br>
<br>
Wulfila was even more towards the orthodox nicaian church. It looks <br>
that he<br>
was arian by accident only. When he was consecrated bishop arianism <br>
was the<br>
leading party in the east. And afterwards Wulfila was too <br>
straightforward to<br>
change his mind.<br>
<br>
Am Samstag, 31. März 2007 07:00 schrieb Le Bateman:<br>
> I am just thinking about the similarity in the belief Jesus was <br>
born of<br>
> a<br>
> virgin, but not divine. This was the teaching of Arius. All of the <br>
Church<br>
> fathers including Ireneus, who was the disciple of Polycarp, who <br>
is said<br>
> to<br>
> be John The Beloved Disciple. All of them taught that Arianism was <br>
a<br>
> heretical sect. Muhammad lived in the 6th Century, and died at <br>
the time<br>
> that Redwald King of East Anglia died in 632 A.D. So he would have<br>
> encountered the Monks who live in the Sinai.<br>
> They have a monastery on Mount Sinia. Or somewhere on the Sinai or <br>
Arabian<br>
> Peninsula. I am thinking of the Greek Orthodox monks. I also <br>
believe the<br>
> Coptic Christians of Egypt were around as well. So they were <br>
around. It is<br>
> possible he did come incontact with him. The Quran does call these <br>
and the<br>
> Jews Unbelievers. So he was aware of them. I will have to reread <br>
the<br>
> Quran.<br>
> Le<br>
> ----- Original Message -----<br>
> From: "Baira" <baira_bear@<wbr>...><br>
> To: <<a href="mailto:gothic-l%40yahoogroups.com">gothic-l@yahoogroup<wbr>s.com</a>><br>
> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 6:07 AM<br>
> Subject: [gothic-l] Re: Arain Christian influence on Islam<br>
><br>
> --- In <a href="mailto:gothic-l%40yahoogroups.com">gothic-l@yahoogroup<wbr>s.com</a>, "Le Bateman" <LeBateman@.<wbr>..> <br>
wrote:<br>
> > Does anyone know if there was a strong Arian influence on <br>
Islam.<br>
><br>
> They both<br>
><br>
> > seemed to view Jesus as important, but not devine as the Orthodox<br>
><br>
> faith.<br>
><br>
> > Could Mohammed have known the followers of Ulfius.I probably <br>
have the<br>
> > Bishop's name spelled wrong.<br>
> > Le<br>
><br>
> It is very, very doubtful. Many historians of the Islamic religion<br>
> believe that Mohammad was personally acquainted with the Jewish<br>
> religion but not with the Christian one, which he knew just by<br>
> hearsay. If so, it was highly unlikely that he knew the beliefs of <br>
a<br>
> 'heretical' sect.<br>
><br>
> In Islamic religion Jesus is a prophet, just like Moses and <br>
Abraham.<br>
> The greatest of the prophets before Mohammed, but a prophet, <br>
nothing<br>
> more and nothing less.<br>
><br>
> Besides, if you are not a Christian you will not only never accept <br>
the<br>
> divine nature of Jesus, but you will not even pose yourself the <br>
question.<br>
<br>
</p>
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