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<p><br>
Hi Ualarauans!<br>
<br>
It seems as a lot of people mistake the late Arianism in the time of<br>
Wulfila with the original Arianism. Wulfila is after the Nicean<br>
compromise and Wulfila just rejects the Teodosian interdict but is<br>
influencved by the agreement in Constantinople 381-82. I have earlier<br>
written an article in this matter from which I give you a slightly<br>
revised excerpt:<br>
<br>
'215 AD in Rome Sabellius declared as his opinion that the Father, the<br>
Son and the Holy Ghost were only different manifestations of God. He<br>
was part of the modalistic school. Immideately he was classified as<br>
heretic. Hundred years later the presbyterian Arius in Alexandria<br>
launched what later was called Arianism. The modern definition of this<br>
faith says shortly that the Son, the pre-existent Christ, is not of<br>
the same divine character as the Father but the first created entity.<br>
This is however a rude simplification of the complete story. Arius<br>
himself claimed the Son had both a human and a divine nature. He was<br>
born human and raised to divinity through a righteous life, like a<br>
boddisathva or deva being given a divine status. This implies that<br>
even other humans could have the chance being devinated in this way.<br>
Regarding the above mentioned Sabellianism you could even interpret<br>
Arius saying Jesus was a human but the reincarnated Christ was an<br>
incarnation of God, but in the visual shape of Jesus. In this way both<br>
Sabellius and Arius succeed to give a picture of a monoteistic God in<br>
opposition to the later in Nicea created trinity God, which was<br>
understood as three different Gods by the Arians. A great majority of<br>
the Eastern bishops sympatized with Arius and the leading were the two<br>
Eusebius’<wbr>s in Caesarea and Nicomedia-the Eastern residential city of<br>
the emperor. They had however a formidable opposer in Alexander,<br>
pontiff of Alexandria and later this position was taken by his deacon<br>
Athanasius, one of the most ruthless clergymen ever known in history<br>
and fully comparable with e.g. Al Capone using the same criminal<br>
methods to control the Alexandrian economy and the church. He was<br>
several times abolished by the joint bishops, both Nicaenan and Arian,<br>
because of his methods. Nota bene that all bishops used rough methods<br>
but this was too much to take even for them. Athanasius and his,<br>
mostly Western, followers claimed that the Father and the Son were of<br>
the same nature, and hence they were regarded as polyteistic from<br>
Arian wiew. The traditional Eastern wiew includes a god who is an<br>
abstract entity and a single God. This goes as well for the Mosaic<br>
religion.<br>
In 325 the dubious meeting in Nicea was held. Emperor Constantine had<br>
engaged the old bishop Hosius of Spain who sided with Athanasius and<br>
the Westerners but because of the strong opposition there was a<br>
compromise. The Arian bishops agreed that Father and Son were of the<br>
same nature but interpreted it as being of a similar nature, not same.<br>
The Father was in command of the Son and the Son was created. This<br>
compromise resulted in almost total victory for the Arians for a<br>
considerable time. In spite of the compromise they fundamentally<br>
claimed there was but one real God. Arianism dominates until the death<br>
of emperor Valens and the Visigoths accept the Arian faith in his<br>
time, and the Goths also send missionaries converting all the other<br>
Germanic continental tribes of major importance to Arianism except the<br>
Franks......<br>
Theodosius then calls a meeting in Constantinople in 381 forcing the<br>
assembly to accept a dictate saying that the Father, the Son and the<br>
Holy Ghost are of the same essence and that the Son existed together<br>
with the Father before all ages. To get the Arian bishops to sign that<br>
decision an amandment was issued, saying that the Father worked<br>
through the Son and the Spirit and so stressing the unicum of the<br>
Father. As soon as the Western delegates had returned home they<br>
rejected this amandment. Soon after this Teodosius issued an edict<br>
banning Arianism by law, and so it ceased in the empire but flourished<br>
in the Germanic states. The united church was still in reality divided<br>
and now the divison focused on the amandment which finally resulted in<br>
the split 1054 because of the Filiocque-question. <br>
Within the Eastern half of the pro-forma united church the old Arian<br>
fight continued but now disguised as the Theotokos-debate. There were<br>
two centrals, Antioc arguing the Arian wiew and Alexandria the<br>
Nicaenan. The question was wether God could be born by a human woman.<br>
The Antiocenes meant Jesus was both human and divine and hence could<br>
be borne by a woman, but this was rejected by the Alexandrians<br>
claiming Jesus Christ was wholly divine. In the long run this gives<br>
Mary a similar position of type Boddisathva as Arius had given Jesus<br>
and she is, as the first ever, made a saint. Her saintly background is<br>
of course also closely connected with Isis and Harpokrates in the Late<br>
Antique cult of Serapion and further back to the different<br>
Mother-goddesses. Here we touch also a connection to the Tree of Life.<br>
The council of Efesos in 431 aknowledged the position of Mary as<br>
Theotokos. Jean Damascè<wbr>ne writes in the 7th c. that Mary was the<br>
tabernacle in which logos was incarnated into Jesus, finally making<br>
him Christ. Also in James’<wbr>s protevangelium 4:1 and in Photius is<br>
stressed, that Marys mother, Anna, had a vision that her daughter<br>
should be the instrument delivering human blood to Christ, to be let<br>
out for the salvation of the world. There is accordingly no doubt that<br>
Jesus is described as born with human blood. After death Theotokos<br>
raised to heaven, now residing with the Father and the Son. This is<br>
illustrated in the grave-chapel of Chora church, where Mary wears the<br>
imperial purple mantle.<br>
Here we are, accordingly, the old Orientalic trinity with father,<br>
mother and son. Adding also the Gnostics we have a unification of<br>
male and female-spirit and matter - both leading to the single<br>
allmighty God, the result of both the forces like O and H becames OH2.<br>
The female power is connected to the Earth and the growing things and<br>
the male is the spiritual force. Hence, also in Christian context Mary<br>
is connected with plants and fertility. Very early the Tree of Life is<br>
connected with her and so is the heart-palmette. The Tree of Life, in<br>
combination with the hearts,on the Byzantine,Armenian and Vestgautic<br>
Tree of Life Slabs indicates indeed Mary and her son, the Tree,<br>
growing out of the soil but on a divine foundation of a zikkurate, and<br>
thereby stressing that Jesus is born human, by a human mother, and is<br>
indeed the Son, not the Father.'<br>
<br>
According to the above it is quite possible also that Islam could be<br>
influenced by early Arianism. The reason Egypt later turned into<br>
Islam is just the monoteistic question and Arius worked in Alexandria<br>
and had a tremendous support of the local population. That is one of<br>
the reasons the opposition as well centered in Alexandria and used any<br>
force to fight Arius and his followers.<br>
<br>
Best regards<br>
Ingemar<br>
<br>
--- In <a href="mailto:gothic-l%40yahoogroups.com">gothic-l@yahoogroup<wbr>s.com</a>, "ualarauans" <ualarauans@<wbr>...> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Hailai,<br>
> <br>
> How would you explain the fragment Skeir. 7:7<br>
> <br>
> akei nauh us þamma filu mais siponjans fullafahida jah anşarans <br>
> gamaudida gaumjan, şatei is was sa sama, saei in auşidai •m• jere <br>
> attans ize fodida...<br>
> <br>
> "but much more from this (five loaves and two fishes) he (Jesus) had <br>
> satisfied the disciples and reminded the others to see that he was <br>
> THE SAME WHO FED THEIR FATHERS IN THE DESERT FOUR HUNDRED YEARS".<br>
> <br>
> As you see Jesus is literally identified with God Father. Is this <br>
> view really Arian? If not, how did it get here?<br>
> <br>
> Ualarauans<br>
<br>
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