<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">
<html>
<head>
</head>
<!-- Network content -->
<body style="background-color: #ffffff;">
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStartT|**|-~-->
<div id="ygrp-mlmsg" style="width:655px; position:relative;">
<div id="ygrp-msg" style="width: 490px; padding: 0 15px 0 0; float:left; z-index:1;">
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEndT|**|-~-->
<div id="ygrp-text">
<p>--- In <a href="mailto:gothic-l%40yahoogroups.com">gothic-l@yahoogroup<wbr>s.com</a>, Michael Erwin <merwin@...> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Chernyakhov -<br>
> <br>
> I suggest either *Qernjahifs or *[90]ernjahifs as a <br>
transliteration.<br>
> *Q or *[90] to represent the initial Ch-. (Ualarauans made the same<br>
> [90] suggestion here). H to represent the Kh. Russian and Ukrainian<br>
> have no H; Gothic has no Kh. I to represent the Russian O or<br>
> Ukrainian I.<br>
<br>
Ukrainian -iv alternates with –ov- in oblique cases (Chorn'akhiv, <br>
gen. Chorn'akhova) and this –ov- is etymologically primary here <br>
corresponding to Russian –ov, Polish -ow (with an acute mark above <br>
in nominative pronounced as [u]) and ultimately to Proto-Slavic <br>
possessive ending –ovu. So I think the Gothic form should keep -of <br>
in nominative. What of the vowel in the first syllable, it is short <br>
(Slavic doesn't distinguish long and short vowels) also <br>
etymologically (going back to Proto-Slavic chrnu with a vocalic [r] <br>
meaning "black") and hence should be written with /aí/ (pronounced <br>
[e]) in Gothic, all the more so that it stands before /r/ where <br>
Gothic has the breaking /i/ > /aí/). If you hate using /x/ for [kh], <br>
the best option in my opinion is to write /k/, not /h/. Whether the <br>
whole word would get masculine ending –s is rather dubious. Compare <br>
fogeign masculine names in the Bible: Iosef, dat. Iosefa and Ioseba <br>
etc without –s. Finally, maybe we should re-organize the name <br>
according to Gothic rules for compounds so that cairnja- would <br>
become cairni- as the quasi first element, but I'm not sure here<br>
– cf. hrainja-hairts.<br>
<br>
What's your suggestion of representing koppa in writing? Why not to <br>
use /c/? Cairjaxof:Cairnikof looks (to me) quite elegant.<br>
<br>
We could go a step forward and think of a phonetic use of sampi <br>
[900]. Maybe we could reserve it for [sh]? How is it to be <br>
transliterated then?<br>
<br>
> Artifact -<br>
> <br>
> How about *mana-waurstw then?<br>
<br>
Yes, that's good. Do we have a word for "artificial"<wbr>? It may be<br>
mana-waurhts (after your suggestion) or attested handu-waurhts "hand-<br>
made". Is there some important semantic difference which I fail to <br>
see?<br>
<br>
> Material Culture -<br>
> <br>
> *Kultura in aigina (or another word for goods and structures and <br>
so on)?<br>
> <br>
> *Kultura in manawaurstwa?<br>
<br>
I think we could start thinking of the opposition "material – <br>
spiritual". The latter is attested as ahmeins and is usually <br>
contrasted with leikeins "bodily" in the Bible. Correct me if I'm <br>
wrong. Ahmeina kultura for "spiritual culture" seems OK, but <br>
leikeins for "material"..<wbr>. I think we need smth another here.<br>
<br>
> Settlement -<br>
> <br>
> use words for village, town, city, etc?<br>
<br>
Saliþwa is attested in plural for settlements or rather shelters or <br>
guest-houses, but it is formed from saljan "to inhabit". Sali-staþs <br>
would suggest unattested sals M.-i for "settlement" combined with <br>
staþs M.-i "place". It's interesting to know whether Cairnjaxobiskai <br>
salistadeis (pl.) could be named baurgs "cities" in the true sense <br>
of the word. Wasn't it "fortificated settlement" originally?<br>
<br>
Ualarauans<br>
<br>
P.S. And yes, Ukrainian does have [h] represented graphically by <br>
what is Russian [g] (like Dutch /g/).<br>
<br>
</p>
</div>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~-->
<span width="1" style="color: white;">__._,_.___</span>
<!-- Start the section with Message In topic -->
<div id="ygrp-actbar">
<span class="left">
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/message/9472;_ylc=X3oDMTM0NWV0aGh2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BG1zZ0lkAzk1NjMEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMTc2ODA3ODk5BHRwY0lkAzk0NzI-">
Messages in this topic </a> (<span class="bld">0</span>)
</span>
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwdDA2amRmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BG1zZ0lkAzk1NjMEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMTc2ODA3ODk5?act=reply&messageNum=9563">
<span class="bld">
Reply </span> (via web post)
</a> |
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlNThmOXA5BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTE3NjgwNzg5OQ--" class="bld">
Start a new topic </a>
</div>
<!------- Start Nav Bar ------>
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<div id="ygrp-vitnav">
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/messages;_ylc=X3oDMTJlcTNwbWc5BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA21zZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTE3NjgwNzg5OQ--">Messages</a>
| <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJlNnFqajduBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA21icnMEc3RpbWUDMTE3NjgwNzg5OQ--">Members</a>
</div>
<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
<!-- Do not have place to put it yet -->
<div id="ygrp-grft">
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
You are a member of the Gothic-L list. To unsubscribe, send a blank email to <gothic-l-unsubscribe@egroups.com>.
<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
</div>
<!-- yahoo logo -->
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<div id="ygrp-ft">
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJkdW0ydjFsBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMTc2ODA3ODk5">
<img src="http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif" height="15" width="106" border="0" alt="Yahoo! Groups"></a> <br>
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/join;_ylc=X3oDMTJmMGptcDAzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3N0bmdzBHN0aW1lAzExNzY4MDc4OTk-">Change settings via the Web</a> (Yahoo! ID required) <br>
Change settings via email: <a href="mailto:gothic-l-digest@yahoogroups.com?subject=Email Delivery: Digest">Switch delivery to Daily Digest</a> | <a href = "mailto:gothic-l-traditional@yahoogroups.com?subject=Change Delivery Format: Traditional">Switch format to Traditional</a> <br>
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l;_ylc=X3oDMTJkdDVlaWM4BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2hwZgRzdGltZQMxMTc2ODA3ODk5">
Visit Your Group
</a> |
<a href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">
Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use </a> |
<a href="mailto:gothic-l-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=">
Unsubscribe </a>
</div> <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
</div> <!-- ygrp-msg -->
<!-- Sponsor -->
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<div id="ygrp-sponsor" style="width:140px;float: left; clear: none; margin-left: 5px; background:white; margin-bottom:25px ;position:absolute; top:0; right: 0;">
<!-- Network content -->
<!-- Start vitality -->
<div id="ygrp-vital">
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l;_ylc=X3oDMTJlbGNrcXNmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTE3NjgwNzg5OQ--">
Visit Your Group </a>
</div>
<div id="hd">SPONSORED LINKS</div>
<div id="ov">
<ul>
<li><a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/gads;_ylc=X3oDMTJjazUzNjBlBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BF9wAzEEZ3JwSWQDMTAyMDU5OARncnBzcElkAzE3MDU3MzkyMDYEc2VjA3NsbW9kBHN0aW1lAzExNzY4MDc5MDE-?t=ms&k=Nh+lake+region+real+estate&w1=Nh+lake+region+real+estate&w2=New+hampshire+lake+region+real+estate&c=2&s=75&g=2&.sig=HcA2Gka9ver96eXrT3Jqlg">Nh lake region real estate</a></li>
<li><a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/gads;_ylc=X3oDMTJja2NiYTBtBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BF9wAzIEZ3JwSWQDMTAyMDU5OARncnBzcElkAzE3MDU3MzkyMDYEc2VjA3NsbW9kBHN0aW1lAzExNzY4MDc5MDE-?t=ms&k=New+hampshire+lake+region+real+estate&w1=Nh+lake+region+real+estate&w2=New+hampshire+lake+region+real+estate&c=2&s=75&g=2&.sig=VzceW82Yh9iNe-OnKKJhSA">New hampshire lake region real estate</a></li>
</ul>
</div>
<!-- Network content -->
<div id="nc">
<div class="ad">
<div id="hd1">Top Scientist</div>
<p><a href="http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12jqdk6mi/M=493064.10322711.10977673.9997527/D=groups/S=1705739206:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1176815101/A=4438957/R=0/SIG=111octuig/*http://www.bix.com/contest/5406">10 Greatest Ever</a></p>
<p>Share and vote</p>
<p>on Bix.com!</p> </div>
<div class="ad">
<div id="hd1">Need traffic?</div>
<p><a href="http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12ip418on/M=493064.9803227.10510220.8674578/D=groups/S=1705739206:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1176815101/A=3848644/R=0/SIG=131l83flq/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/srchv2.php?o=US2006&cmp=Yahoo&ctv=Groups5&s=Y&s2=&s3=&b=50">Drive customers</a></p>
<p>With search ads</p>
<p>on Yahoo!</p> </div>
<div class="ad">
<div id="hd1">Y! GeoCities</div>
<p><a href="http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12i6b3qen/M=493064.9803219.10510212.8674578/D=groups/S=1705739206:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1176815101/A=3848542/R=0/SIG=12ban20bv/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=42416/*http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/y360/?v=f">Share More</a></p>
<p>Create a blog, web</p>
<p>site, and more.</p> </div>
</div>
</div> <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
<div style="clear:both; color: #FFF; font-size:1px;">.</div>
</div> <img src="http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=1020598/grpspId=1705739206/msgId=9563/stime=1176807899/nc1=4438957/nc2=3848644/nc3=3848542" width="1" height="1"> <br>
<span style="color: white;">__,_._,___</span>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~-->
</body>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~-->
<head>
<style type="text/css">
<!--
#ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px; font-family: arial,helvetica,clean,sans-serif;*font-size:small;*font:x-small;}
#ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;}
#ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {font:99% arial,helvetica,clean,sans-serif;}
#ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {font:115% monospace;*font-size:100%;}
#ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;}
#ygrp-text{
font-family: Georgia;
}
#ygrp-text p{
margin: 0 0 1em 0;
}
#ygrp-tpmsgs{
font-family: Arial;
clear: both;
}
#ygrp-vitnav{
padding-top: 10px;
font-family: Verdana;
font-size: 77%;
margin: 0;
}
#ygrp-vitnav a{
padding: 0 1px;
}
#ygrp-actbar{
clear: both;
margin: 25px 0;
white-space:nowrap;
color: #666;
text-align: right;
}
#ygrp-actbar .left{
float: left;
white-space:nowrap;
}
.bld{font-weight:bold;}
#ygrp-grft{
font-family: Verdana;
font-size: 77%;
padding: 15px 0;
}
#ygrp-ft{
font-family: verdana;
font-size: 77%;
border-top: 1px solid #666;
padding: 5px 0;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg #logo{
padding-bottom: 10px;
}
#ygrp-vital{
background-color: #e0ecee;
margin-bottom: 20px;
padding: 2px 0 8px 8px;
}
#ygrp-vital #vithd{
font-size: 77%;
font-family: Verdana;
font-weight: bold;
color: #333;
text-transform: uppercase;
}
#ygrp-vital ul{
padding: 0;
margin: 2px 0;
}
#ygrp-vital ul li{
list-style-type: none;
clear: both;
border: 1px solid #e0ecee;
}
#ygrp-vital ul li .ct{
font-weight: bold;
color: #ff7900;
float: right;
width: 2em;
text-align:right;
padding-right: .5em;
}
#ygrp-vital ul li .cat{
font-weight: bold;
}
#ygrp-vital a {
text-decoration: none;
}
#ygrp-vital a:hover{
text-decoration: underline;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #hd{
color: #999;
font-size: 77%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov{
padding: 6px 13px;
background-color: #e0ecee;
margin-bottom: 20px;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov ul{
padding: 0 0 0 8px;
margin: 0;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov li{
list-style-type: square;
padding: 6px 0;
font-size: 77%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov li a{
text-decoration: none;
font-size: 130%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #nc {
background-color: #eee;
margin-bottom: 20px;
padding: 0 8px;
}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad{
padding: 8px 0;
}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{
font-family: Arial;
font-weight: bold;
color: #628c2a;
font-size: 100%;
line-height: 122%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad a{
text-decoration: none;
}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{
text-decoration: underline;
}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad p{
margin: 0;
}
o {font-size: 0; }
.MsoNormal {
margin: 0 0 0 0;
}
#ygrp-text tt{
font-size: 120%;
}
blockquote{margin: 0 0 0 4px;}
.replbq {margin:4}
-->
</style>
</head>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~-->
</html><!--End group email -->