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<p>--- In <a href="mailto:gothic-l%40yahoogroups.com">gothic-l@yahoogroup<wbr>s.com</a>, "ualarauans" <ualarauans@<wbr>...> wrote:<br>
<br>
[...]<br>
<br>
> Ana Danaprais staþam (et passim) "on the banks of the Dniepr" – it's <br>
> after ON Danparstaðir, isn't it? *Danaprs as I can gather is thought <br>
> to be an –i-stem fem. Jordanes used Danaper masc. and one time <br>
> Danaprum neutr. (Get. 30: magnumque illud Danaprum Taurumque <br>
> montem..., if illud is not a typo for illum acc. masc. here). The <br>
> formation is probably the same as in Danaster /-trum. In ON a re-<br>
> distribution (Neuverteilung) of morphemes took place and the final<br>
> –r- of the stem became a flective ending, hence Danpr, gen. Danpar. <br>
> Cf. also later Slavic forms: ORuss. DnEpru > Russ. Dnepr, Ukr. <br>
> Dnipro - all masc. All this leads me to think that Gothic had a <br>
> form like *Danaprus M.-u or *Danaprs M.-a/-i, in which case gen. <br>
> would be *Danapraus or *Danapris. BTW., are you sure that it was <br>
> staþa "banks", not stadeis "places" (as in ON). Ana Danapraus <br>
> stadim? Or better as a compound *Danaprustadeis/<wbr>-staþa?<br>
<br>
Atlakviða, stanza 5 'ok staði Danpar' points to Go. stadeis, but 'á<br>
Danparstöðum' of Hervarar saga could be either. In one version this<br>
is the name of the district, with Árheimar being the citadel, in<br>
another version Árheimar is the district, 'á Danparstöðum' the citadel<br>
-- so perhaps it was already unclear to compilers of the saga. G.<br>
Turville Petre notes in his edition of Hervarar saga, p. 83 "the word<br>
probably means 'on the banks of the Dnjepr". I guessed at *Danaprs,<br>
fi., since river names are typically feminine in Old Norse -- assuming<br>
that this was an ancient Germanic trend; also because of the noun<br>
'ahva'. Are there tendencies regarding the gender of river names in<br>
Latin that Jordanes might have been following, or breaking with? <br>
Thomas Czarnecki reconstructed *Donawi for Danube (fi.?). I'll look<br>
into this though. Are there any more rivers mentioned in the Gothic<br>
Bible fragments besides Iaurdanus ahva? Any Gothic river names that<br>
have survived in Eastern Europe?<br>
<br>
> Augeis kunjis "of Augis's kin"; Imrikins banins "of Imrika's <br>
> slayer" – what are these names? Are they attested (and what do they <br>
> mean)?<br>
<br>
Jordanes names 'Augis' among the early kings/ancestors of the Goths. <br>
Hence Augeis kuni = the Gothic people. Imrika = OE Emerca (Widsith),<br>
OHG Embrica (Würzburg Chronicle), MHG Imbrecke (Biterolf); in German<br>
legend, he and his brother Go. *Friþula were Ermanaric's nephews, the<br>
Harlungen (perhaps Go. *Harjalingos)<wbr>, killed by their uncle due to<br>
scheming-councellor<wbr>-aggravated paranoia.<br>
<br>
> <br>
> þairh Mairqiwidu "through the Dark Forest" – aha, here is Gothic <br>
> Myrkviðr finally! So you think that was originally a forest between <br>
> Goths and Huns (like in Hlöðskviða)? I heard a lot of theories about <br>
> its supposed historical location. One of them is that it = <br>
> Herodote's hYLAIH "forested region" between Dnieper and Don.<br>
<br>
I don't know; it seems to be quite a well-traveled forest ;-) Other<br>
sources put it on the southern border of Denmark, or in the<br>
Erzgebirge. Hasn't it also been equated with the Moesian marsh?<br>
<br>
> <br>
> faur Salwo swumfsl "by the Murky Lake" – and is there a proto-type <br>
> of this?<br>
<br>
No specific prototype for the name, but the idea of a sinister lake<br>
was looted from Beowulf where a deer is said to prefer giving itself<br>
up to the hunters than to approach a haunted mere. The episode with<br>
the deer itself, of course, is from Jordanes.<br>
<br>
> <br>
> Hraide "of the Hred-Goths" – I guess you have an example of such a <br>
> usage in ON or OE?<br>
<br>
Yes, e.g. Widsith: "full oft þæ´r wíg ne alæg, þonne Hræ´da here<br>
heardum sweordum ymb Wistlawudu wergan sceoldun ealdne éþelstól Ætlan<br>
léodum."<br>
<br>
> <br>
> und Hailago hlaiw, / þarei und hita standiþ "unto the Holy Howe, <br>
> there where it stands to this day" <= (Hlöðskviða 10) gröf þá ina <br>
> helgu, / er stendr á Goðþjóðu, right?<br>
<br>
That's the one!<br>
<br>
> <br>
> Uldinis ... arbjans "Uldin's heirs" – I guess it's the same Uldin <br>
> who was mentioned as a leader of the Danube Huns about 400 CE. Could <br>
> the Huns of the Invasion time (375 CE) be called "Uldin's heirs"?<br>
<br>
I considered this and have two excuses prepared ;-) (1) Legendary<br>
chronology is naturally vague and anachronistic, even in direct<br>
speech, cf. the quote from Widsith above (this is my main excuse!) --<br>
just the sort of traditional epithet or kenning that appears in<br>
Germanic epic poetry, not always with strict regard to its immediate<br>
context; (2) different Uldin maybe? An ancestor of the one who made<br>
himself known to classical historians?<br>
<br>
> Balþs Balambairis "Bold Balamber". Jordanes' Balamber which also <br>
> reads in codices as Balamir and Balamur has been often thought to be <br>
> a distortion of Gothic Walamers (through Greek intermediation, cf. <br>
> BALAMEROS in Priscus 28 – a "Scythic" name). Maybe there was a <br>
> Hunnish name later Gothicized (like in the case of Attila, Rugila <br>
> etc)? I'd use *Balamers, if not Walamers. Keeping the rhyme, Balþs <br>
> Balamers...<br>
<br>
I had read this theory, but the alliteration was hard to resist. So I<br>
went with the hypothesis that it was indeed a Hunnish name, and that<br>
the more Gothic-looking versions were partial assimilations to names<br>
such as *Walhamers. Alternatively, we could argue that the name had<br>
been garbled in the traditions preceding the poem, and that not all of<br>
its sources were oral.<br>
<br>
> Alisins geza "Alisa's stronghold" – again a name which I <br>
> can't "decipher".<br>
<br>
'baurg Alisins' "Alisa's stronghold", cf. OE Elsa, MHG Elsan, a Gothic<br>
noble who allies himself with Dietrich on his return from exile. <br>
'geza' was my solution to that perennial question "what's Gothic for<br>
yesterday?" I was thinking of ON 'í gær', with a dative ending in<br>
place of original locative by analogy with 'himma daga'. Another<br>
alternative would be 'gezis', cf. 'gistradagis' "tomorrow" -- but I<br>
wondered if that might have more of the sense of regular occurance:<br>
the hay is cast into the over every tomorrow, as a general rule,<br>
whereas this is one specific yesterday.<br>
<br>
> <br>
> Humlins magiwe "of Humla's boys" – maybe Humila is better for ON <br>
> Humli? Or that would yield *Hymli?<br>
<br>
I think you're right about *Humila. The medial vowel would have been<br>
lost in ON before i-umlaut, cf. ketill, dat. katli.<br>
<br>
> <br>
> Unwen – Jordanes Hunuil? I heard there was an OE parallel name, <br>
> right?<br>
<br>
Yes. Widsith has OE Unwen.<br>
<br>
113 Emercan sohte ic ond Fridlan . ond Eastgotan,<br>
114 frodne ond godne . fæder Unwenes. <br>
<br>
See Chambers, p. 219 "The name means a son born beyond hope. He must<br>
have been a famous hero to have been remembered in England till after<br>
the Normal Conquest (see Appendix K). Yet he does not succeed his<br>
father Ostrogotha in Gothic story: he was therefor persumably cut off<br>
in his youth. Was it in this connection that Ostrogotha, like<br>
Thurisind and Olaf Peacock, showed his characteristic patience?"<br>
<br>
The subject of another poem...? (The other references are to<br>
Langobard and Icelandic history.)<br>
<br>
> <br>
> ibnan / Airpamarhin "Erpamarha's equal". In the text (Get. 43) it <br>
> stands as Eterpamara. What is this Et-, if we accept your <br>
> reconstruction?<br>
<br>
I'm hypothesising that Lat. 'et' "and" has somehow become attached to<br>
the name in the course of transmission, since it makes good sense as a<br>
Gothic name without the 'et' (Dark Horse, Chestnut Horse), and not<br>
much sense with.<br>
<br>
> Are there other examples where marha is attested as <br>
> a weak noun in Germanic names?<br>
<br>
I'm not sure, but there are the Anglo-Saxon leaders Hengest and Horsa.<br>
<br>
Thanks for all the comments!<br>
<br>
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