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<p>Hails!<br>
<br>
Thought I would bring back a piece of history (as I was perusing the<br>
archives). I wonder how you are doing on these goals, not as a matter<br>
of control, but purely because I am interested in the results of these<br>
efforts!<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Th.<br>
<br>
--- In <a href="mailto:gothic-l%40yahoogroups.com">gothic-l@yahoogroup<wbr>s.com</a>, "llama_nom" <600cell@...<wbr>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> <br>
> I have an ambition to work out some basic things about Gothic word <br>
> order, which isn't so easy, because Gothic Bible is in most ways a <br>
> word for word translation from the Greek, so you have to look out <br>
> for those specific ways in which it differs. It's also complicated <br>
> by the fact that the exact text of the Greek original that it was <br>
> based on is not known. Wilhelm Streitberg printed a reconstructed <br>
> version of the Greek, which appears at the Wulfila Project site and <br>
> at TITUS, but very often other Greek versions offer a better match <br>
> for the Gothic, so these have to be ckecked too. Useful are regular <br>
> deviations, such as 'iþ' almost always being placed first in the <br>
> clause, in contrast to Greek DE, which comes second. Likewise <br>
> Go. 'unte' for Gk. GAR. Also where Gothic needs two or more words <br>
> to translate a single Greek word, although even here you have to be <br>
> careful because given half a chance the Gothic will imitate the <br>
> order of morphemes in the Greek word! Occasional and arbitrary <br>
> differences are always suspect, especially where they can be <br>
> paralleled elsewhere in the Greek. Modern researchers are sometimes <br>
> a bit erratic about this, but really you have to be strict in what <br>
> evidence is allowed, otherwise there's no way of establishing what <br>
> is a genuine Gothic usage, and what is really a feature of Greek <br>
> syntax.<br>
> <br>
> It's fiddly and time-consuming work, and short of more texts being <br>
> discovered, there'll always be mysteries. But the payoff is a <br>
> glimpse into the syntax of an early Germanic language, in some ways <br>
> like its later kin, in other ways intriguingly different. I'd also <br>
> like to learn more about syntactical theory, because this could <br>
> offer a way of deducing generalised rules from the scant evidence. <br>
> But it's important to establish what that evidence is first before <br>
> resorting to theory.<br>
> <br>
> This had impications for anyone who wants to write or speak in a <br>
> reconstructed Gothic. I think it would be good to establish all <br>
> that can be established about the historical language, otherwise any <br>
> reconstruction would tend to take the form of people expressing <br>
> their thoughts in modern ways but just using Gothic words, whereas a <br>
> language is more than just vocabulary. But then any living laguage <br>
> is going to develop in its own way in any case, so maybe this <br>
> wouldn't seem so important to other people.<br>
> <br>
> I also have a Secret Plan to write something on pronunciation. <br>
> Having read (and ranted at!) the rather chaotic and contradictory <br>
> Wikipedia entry a couple of months back, and then this new Gothic <br>
> Online Course, I've finally been galled into starting a file on the <br>
> matter. That could take ages too, but I'm concentrating to begin <br>
> with on the thorny issue of <ai> and <au>. Again, a lot of problems <br>
> will never be solved, but I reckon I can narrow down the <br>
> possibilities a bit with logic. For example, some scolars have <br>
> suggested that each digraph stood for a single phoneme, but the loss <br>
> of final inflectional -s only after a short syllable implies that <br>
> <ai> and <au> probably had both short and long variants. Loanwords <br>
> and the spelling of personal names in Latin and Greek texts suggests <br>
> that the old Germanic diphthings were preserved well after Wulfila's <br>
> time in some dialects, but lost in others, though it may not be <br>
> possible to make a simple division between "Visigoths" <br>
> and "Ostrogoths" on this point.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> --- In <a href="mailto:gothic-l%40yahoogroups.com">gothic-l@yahoogroup<wbr>s.com</a>, "Fredrik" <gadrauhts@> wrote:<br>
> ><br>
> > Hi!<br>
> > <br>
> > I guess everyone here have some intentions and reasons why you <br>
> wanna <br>
> > learn gothic. One could be a general interest in languages and <br>
> > specially in gothic, but why is that?<br>
> > <br>
> > Different from other languages like english, german and spanish <br>
> which <br>
> > people learn (mostly) because it could be useful in their work. <br>
> > Gothic is not that useful, coz nobody uses it.<br>
> > <br>
> > So why do you wanna learn it/did you learn it?<br>
> > Was it maybe because you wanna know how to speak it, of some <br>
> reason <br>
> > or was it coz you wanna understand germanic hostory more??<br>
> > <br>
> > Myself I have changed my reasons during the time. First of all I <br>
> have <br>
> > a interest in languages and especially in germanic ones. When I <br>
> > first, long ago, found out that there was a third branch of the <br>
> > germanic family, the eastern this become my main interest, so I <br>
> began <br>
> > to study it as much as possible. First just to learn a little <br>
> about <br>
> > it and see what this east germanic branch was like, and what was <br>
> > different between this and the west and noth germanic branches.<br>
> > <br>
> > Later I got a book with some basic grammar, a tiny dictionary and <br>
> > some text samples from the bible. Since that time I have been <br>
> trying <br>
> > to learn gothic. Mostly when it comes to understanding those texts.<br>
> > It's kinda hard to learn speaking it when it lacks so much <br>
> (attested) <br>
> > words.<br>
> > <br>
> > Do you also wanna share your ambitions and dreams/thoughts?<br>
> > <br>
> > Mine is to learn to speak gothic fluently and with a much better <br>
> > pronunciation then I have now. (It's still a long way to go...my <br>
> > grammar kinda sucks for now). This means that my vocabulary has to <br>
> > expand but also that the total gothic vocabulary has to that too. <br>
> > That's why I'm tryin to collect neologisms in a dictionary. My <br>
> > present goal is to reach 30 000 words, which is the average number <br>
> of <br>
> > words is a pocket dictionary.<br>
> > I don't think it's total necessary that all these neologisms is <br>
> > standard for all gothic speakers, if some one like to use other <br>
> words <br>
> > I think thats OK. For example we can say that I prefer a puristic <br>
> > vocabulary so a word like republic should be thiudawaihts, but if <br>
> > some one like raí°µbleik (to remind of other germanic languages) or <br>
> > smth like that...go for it.<br>
> > <br>
> > My dreams and (utopic) thought is that I should be able to use it <br>
> in <br>
> > daily speech. For that I probably need some one or two in my life <br>
> > that also know how to speak it, (and that's not like it today).<br>
> > <br>
> > I think it would be interesting to know a little about you and <br>
> what's <br>
> > on your mind about all this...so plz share your thought.<br>
> > <br>
> > /Fredrik<br>
> ><br>
><br>
<br>
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