<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">
<html>
<head>
</head>
<!-- Network content -->
<body style="background-color: #ffffff;">
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStartT|**|-~-->
<div id="ygrp-mlmsg" style="width:655px; position:relative;">
<div id="ygrp-msg" style="width: 490px; padding: 0 15px 0 0; float:left; z-index:1;">
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEndT|**|-~-->
<div id="ygrp-text">
<p><br>
Probably the native months, as elsewhere in Germania, didn't<br>
originally match up perfectly with the Roman months. The two Yule<br>
months would have originally marked, more or less, one month's length<br>
of time before yule (the midwinter feast) and one month's length of<br>
time after, as defined according to native tradition. The Icelandic<br>
'ŭlir', for example, begins on the second day of the week falling<br>
within November 10-17. From the Calendar, it seems that the Goths, by<br>
the time it was written, had altered this system to bring their native<br>
month names into line with the Roman months, so that 'fruma jiuleis'<br>
became a synonym for November. The choice of November or December may<br>
have been a bit arbitrary when this process of co-ordinating calendars<br>
was first undertaken. Since the original month would have overlapped<br>
with part of December, it could just as easily have come to be the<br>
name for that month, as did its Old English equivalent 'se ĉ´rra<br>
jéola'. If they called the second yule month 'anŝar jiuleis' and<br>
co-ordinated it with December, at least it wouldn't sound as anomalous<br>
as doing this would with the Old English 'se ĉftera jéola' which<br>
instead was naturally seen as the nearest equivalent to January. But<br>
I suppose, for all we know, the Goths might have inserted some other<br>
name as the native synonym for December, or else used no native<br>
synonym at all. Or maybe the tradition that the two yule-months were<br>
consecutive was too strong.<br>
<br>
LN<br>
<br>
--- In <a href="mailto:gothic-l%40yahoogroups.com">gothic-l@yahoogroup<wbr>s.com</a>, "ualarauans" <ualarauans@<wbr>...> wrote:<br>
><br>
> --- In <a href="mailto:gothic-l%40yahoogroups.com">gothic-l@yahoogroup<wbr>s.com</a>, "llama_nom" <600cell@> wrote:<br>
> ><br>
> > The month name 'fruma jiuleis' which appears in the Calendar as a<br>
> > synonym for 'Naubaimbair' is masculine singular, as shown by the<br>
> > adjective: a long ja-stem like hairdeis. It corresponds to ON ŭlir<br>
> > (masculine singular) and Anglian OE giuli (mentioned by Bede:<br>
> > Primusque eorum mensis, quem Latini Januarium vocant, dicitur<br>
> > Giuli...December Giuli, eodem quo Januarius nomine, vocatur... <br>
> Menses<br>
> > Giuli a conversione solis in auctum diei, quia unus eorum prĉcedit,<br>
> > alius subsequitur, nomina accipiunt (cited in the OED)) -- in later<br>
> > West Saxon OE the months before and after the feast are called 'se<br>
> > ĉ´rra géola' and 'se ĉftera géola', with a change of declension to<br>
> > masculine n-stems.<br>
> <br>
> It would be nice if we could call December fruma jiuleis and <br>
> January anŝar jiuleis. But why November in the Calender?<br>
> <br>
> > The midwinter feast itself -- the 12 days of Christmas -- is neuter<br>
> > plural in ON and Icelandic (jól), and sometimes in Old English (ĉ´r<br>
> > géolum = advent). Maybe the tendency to make it singular came as <br>
> the<br>
> > word's meaning changed to apply to the Christian festival. In <br>
> view of<br>
> > which, maybe it is worth having a more specific word after all for <br>
> the<br>
> > day itself when Christ's birth is commemorated, and keep the old<br>
> > grammar for the festive 12 days as a whole.<br>
> <br>
> I support the idea of having separate terms for the pagan and the <br>
> Christian festival. For the latter maybe smth like Xristujiul in <br>
> singular?<br>
> <br>
> Ualarauans<br>
><br>
<br>
</p>
</div>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~-->
<span width="1" style="color: white;">__._,_.___</span>
<!-- Start the section with Message In topic -->
<div id="ygrp-actbar">
<span class="left">
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/message/9417;_ylc=X3oDMTM0dWV0c3R2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BG1zZ0lkAzk2NTgEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMTc3ODYzMjYyBHRwY0lkAzk0MTc-">
Messages in this topic </a> (<span class="bld">0</span>)
</span>
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwc2xpdTFxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BG1zZ0lkAzk2NTgEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMTc3ODYzMjYy?act=reply&messageNum=9658">
<span class="bld">
Reply </span> (via web post)
</a> |
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlMDJjNDIwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTE3Nzg2MzI2Mg--" class="bld">
Start a new topic </a>
</div>
<!------- Start Nav Bar ------>
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<div id="ygrp-vitnav">
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/messages;_ylc=X3oDMTJlMmdubWV0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA21zZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTE3Nzg2MzI2Mg--">Messages</a>
| <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJlMG4wampvBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA21icnMEc3RpbWUDMTE3Nzg2MzI2Mg--">Members</a>
</div>
<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
<!-- Do not have place to put it yet -->
<div id="ygrp-grft">
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
You are a member of the Gothic-L list. To unsubscribe, send a blank email to <gothic-l-unsubscribe@egroups.com>.
<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
</div>
<!-- yahoo logo -->
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<div id="ygrp-ft">
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJkbjJxOTQwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMTc3ODYzMjYy">
<img src="http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif" height="15" width="106" border="0" alt="Yahoo! Groups"></a> <br>
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/join;_ylc=X3oDMTJmMnVxZmE5BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3N0bmdzBHN0aW1lAzExNzc4NjMyNjI-">Change settings via the Web</a> (Yahoo! ID required) <br>
Change settings via email: <a href="mailto:gothic-l-digest@yahoogroups.com?subject=Email Delivery: Digest">Switch delivery to Daily Digest</a> | <a href = "mailto:gothic-l-traditional@yahoogroups.com?subject=Change Delivery Format: Traditional">Switch format to Traditional</a> <br>
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l;_ylc=X3oDMTJkcDlvdjM0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2hwZgRzdGltZQMxMTc3ODYzMjYy">
Visit Your Group
</a> |
<a href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">
Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use </a> |
<a href="mailto:gothic-l-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=">
Unsubscribe </a>
</div> <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
</div> <!-- ygrp-msg -->
<!-- Sponsor -->
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<div id="ygrp-sponsor" style="width:140px;float: left; clear: none; margin-left: 5px; background:white; margin-bottom:25px ;position:absolute; top:0; right: 0;">
<!-- Network content -->
<!-- Start vitality -->
<div id="ygrp-vital">
<div id="vithd">Recent Activity</div>
<ul style="list-style-type:none; padding: 0; margin: 2px 0;">
<li style="clear: both;">
<div class="ct" style="float: right;"><span style="display:none"> </span>1</div>
<div class="cat"><a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmYWJtZ2prBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzExNzc4NjMyNjI-">New Members</a></div>
</li>
<li style="clear: both;">
<div class="ct" style="float: right;"><span style="display:none"> </span>1</div>
<div class="cat"><a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/files;_ylc=X3oDMTJndDR2OGVkBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZmaWxlcwRzdGltZQMxMTc3ODYzMjYy">New Files</a></div>
</li>
</ul>
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l;_ylc=X3oDMTJlN210cmR1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTE3Nzg2MzI2Mg--">
Visit Your Group </a>
</div>
<div id="hd">SPONSORED LINKS</div>
<div id="ov">
<ul>
<li><a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/gads;_ylc=X3oDMTJjdjI3YThnBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BF9wAzEEZ3JwSWQDMTAyMDU5OARncnBzcElkAzE3MDU3MzkyMDYEc2VjA3NsbW9kBHN0aW1lAzExNzc4NjMyNjI-?t=ms&k=Nh+lake+region+real+estate&w1=Nh+lake+region+real+estate&w2=New+hampshire+lake+region+real+estate&c=2&s=75&g=2&.sig=HcA2Gka9ver96eXrT3Jqlg">Nh lake region real estate</a></li>
<li><a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/gads;_ylc=X3oDMTJjdGQxYnRtBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BF9wAzIEZ3JwSWQDMTAyMDU5OARncnBzcElkAzE3MDU3MzkyMDYEc2VjA3NsbW9kBHN0aW1lAzExNzc4NjMyNjI-?t=ms&k=New+hampshire+lake+region+real+estate&w1=Nh+lake+region+real+estate&w2=New+hampshire+lake+region+real+estate&c=2&s=75&g=2&.sig=VzceW82Yh9iNe-OnKKJhSA">New hampshire lake region real estate</a></li>
</ul>
</div>
<!-- Network content -->
<div id="nc">
<div class="ad">
<div id="hd1">Top Scientist</div>
<p><a href="http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12j0010ia/M=493064.10322711.10977673.9997527/D=groups/S=1705739206:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1177870462/A=4438957/R=0/SIG=111octuig/*http://www.bix.com/contest/5406">10 Greatest Ever</a></p>
<p>Share and vote</p>
<p>on Bix.com!</p> </div>
<div class="ad">
<div id="hd1">Y! GeoCities</div>
<p><a href="http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12icair35/M=493064.9803219.10510212.8674578/D=groups/S=1705739206:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1177870462/A=3848541/R=0/SIG=12ban20bv/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=42416/*http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/y360/?v=f">Be Interactive</a></p>
<p>Create a conver-</p>
<p>sation with blogs.</p> </div>
<div class="ad">
<div id="hd1">New business?</div>
<p><a href="http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12i78lisv/M=493064.9803227.10510220.8674578/D=groups/S=1705739206:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1177870462/A=3848640/R=0/SIG=131an6mds/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/srchv2.php?o=US2002&cmp=Yahoo&ctv=Groups1&s=Y&s2=&s3=&b=50">Get new customers.</a></p>
<p>List your web site</p>
<p>in Yahoo! Search.</p> </div>
</div>
</div> <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
<div style="clear:both; color: #FFF; font-size:1px;">.</div>
</div> <img src="http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=1020598/grpspId=1705739206/msgId=9658/stime=1177863262/nc1=4438957/nc2=3848541/nc3=3848640" width="1" height="1"> <br>
<span style="color: white;">__,_._,___</span>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~-->
</body>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~-->
<head>
<style type="text/css">
<!--
#ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px; font-family: arial,helvetica,clean,sans-serif;*font-size:small;*font:x-small;}
#ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;}
#ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {font:99% arial,helvetica,clean,sans-serif;}
#ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {font:115% monospace;*font-size:100%;}
#ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;}
#ygrp-text{
font-family: Georgia;
}
#ygrp-text p{
margin: 0 0 1em 0;
}
#ygrp-tpmsgs{
font-family: Arial;
clear: both;
}
#ygrp-vitnav{
padding-top: 10px;
font-family: Verdana;
font-size: 77%;
margin: 0;
}
#ygrp-vitnav a{
padding: 0 1px;
}
#ygrp-actbar{
clear: both;
margin: 25px 0;
white-space:nowrap;
color: #666;
text-align: right;
}
#ygrp-actbar .left{
float: left;
white-space:nowrap;
}
.bld{font-weight:bold;}
#ygrp-grft{
font-family: Verdana;
font-size: 77%;
padding: 15px 0;
}
#ygrp-ft{
font-family: verdana;
font-size: 77%;
border-top: 1px solid #666;
padding: 5px 0;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg #logo{
padding-bottom: 10px;
}
#ygrp-vital{
background-color: #e0ecee;
margin-bottom: 20px;
padding: 2px 0 8px 8px;
}
#ygrp-vital #vithd{
font-size: 77%;
font-family: Verdana;
font-weight: bold;
color: #333;
text-transform: uppercase;
}
#ygrp-vital ul{
padding: 0;
margin: 2px 0;
}
#ygrp-vital ul li{
list-style-type: none;
clear: both;
border: 1px solid #e0ecee;
}
#ygrp-vital ul li .ct{
font-weight: bold;
color: #ff7900;
float: right;
width: 2em;
text-align:right;
padding-right: .5em;
}
#ygrp-vital ul li .cat{
font-weight: bold;
}
#ygrp-vital a {
text-decoration: none;
}
#ygrp-vital a:hover{
text-decoration: underline;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #hd{
color: #999;
font-size: 77%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov{
padding: 6px 13px;
background-color: #e0ecee;
margin-bottom: 20px;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov ul{
padding: 0 0 0 8px;
margin: 0;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov li{
list-style-type: square;
padding: 6px 0;
font-size: 77%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov li a{
text-decoration: none;
font-size: 130%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #nc {
background-color: #eee;
margin-bottom: 20px;
padding: 0 8px;
}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad{
padding: 8px 0;
}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{
font-family: Arial;
font-weight: bold;
color: #628c2a;
font-size: 100%;
line-height: 122%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad a{
text-decoration: none;
}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{
text-decoration: underline;
}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad p{
margin: 0;
}
o {font-size: 0; }
.MsoNormal {
margin: 0 0 0 0;
}
#ygrp-text tt{
font-size: 120%;
}
blockquote{margin: 0 0 0 4px;}
.replbq {margin:4}
-->
</style>
</head>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~-->
</html><!--End group email -->