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<p>Why couldn't they be borrowed in the way that modern English has borrowed<br>
words with sounds not found in it? ie., 'qat', 'hannukah', 'challah',<br>
'sheikh', etc ...<br>
<br>
ualarauans wrote:<br>
> Hi,<br>
><br>
><br>
> --- In <a href="mailto:gothic-l%40yahoogroups.com">gothic-l@yahoogroup<wbr>s.com</a>, macmaster@..<wbr>. wrote:<br>
><br>
>><br>
>> A lot would depend on the nature of the settlement;<br>
>> if the Visigoths settled in communities and farmed themselves, the<br>
>> language is more likely to have survived than if they were widely<br>
>> scattered as 'lords of the manor' surrounded by romance speaking<br>
> servants,<br>
>> neighbors, etc. The 'barbarian' groups that kept their language after<br>
>> entering the<br>
> former<br>
>> empire were largely those who were of the first sort (the Anglo-<br>
> Saxons,<br>
><br>
>> Slavs, Alemanni) while those of the second sort (Bulgars, Franks,<br>
>> Burgundians, Normans) have long since disappeared and would seem<br>
>><br>
> to have<br>
>> been absorbed quickly.<br>
><br>
> I heard the Franks did colonize what is now Northeast France and<br>
> Belgium in the way you call the first sort – monolingual communities<br>
> of farmers, but nevertheless they lost their language in a few generations.<br>
> I guess if Britain were a part of the continent or if<br>
> there were a tunnel under the channel built by Caesar or William the<br>
> Conqueror we'd probably know now of "British Romance" or "North<br>
> French" spoken over there. Look how the Celtic languages were<br>
> preserved in Britain while they totally disappeared on the continent.<br>
><br>
> raul catalan ramos wrote:<br>
>> I have "argued" about this point with my friends several<br>
>><br>
> times.From my<br>
>> point of view, according to the number of words inherited from east<br>
>> germanic, it is very unlikely the employ of gothic by goths in<br>
> Hispania,<br>
><br>
>> becasuse most of germanic words in nowadays spanish is limited to<br>
> only a<br>
>> handful examples (as "guerra" (written "Werra" in the ancient<br>
> sources ,<br>
>> meaning "war") or "bosque" meaning "forest", both of them nearby<br>
> the same<br>
>> as the italian words for war, "guerra", and forest,"bosco"<wbr>). On<br>
> the<br>
>> other hand, the lack of written sources in gothic can't be used to<br>
> deny<br>
>> the employ of gothic among goths in hispania, because the written<br>
> sources<br>
>> from this period are closely related to the highest elites of<br>
> society,<br>
>> whose focus was the roman (and then bizantine) culture and the<br>
> employ of<br>
>> Latin. I agree with the idea that<br>
>> gothic vanished in a few generations, but I think that it must<br>
> endured for<br>
>> some time in rural areas far from the cities.<br>
><br>
> Spanish guerra is almost surely a loan from Frankish werra via Old<br>
> French. As are many other Germanic words in Ibero-Romance.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Still, there are a few words which seem really Gothic and which<br>
> could rather dispute Dirk's thesis that no Gothic was spoken over the<br>
> Pyrennees. I mean words which preserve Visigothic diphthongs and<br>
> which therefore could not enter Ibero-Romance from a Latin-based military<br>
> pidgin because Vulgar Latin did not have these sounds. Ergo, they must<br>
> have been borrowed directly from Gothic.<br>
><br>
> Ualarauans<br>
><br>
><br>
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