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<p>Hi,<br>
<br>
--- In <a href="mailto:gothic-l%40yahoogroups.com">gothic-l@yahoogroup<wbr>s.com</a>, macmaster@..<wbr>. wrote:<br>
><br>
> A lot would depend on the nature of the settlement;<br>
> if the Visigoths settled in communities and farmed themselves, the<br>
> language is more likely to have survived than if they were widely<br>
> scattered as 'lords of the manor' surrounded by romance speaking <br>
servants,<br>
> neighbors, etc.<br>
> The 'barbarian' groups that kept their language after entering the <br>
former<br>
> empire were largely those who were of the first sort (the Anglo-<br>
Saxons,<br>
> Slavs, Alemanni) while those of the second sort (Bulgars, Franks,<br>
> Burgundians, Normans) have long since disappeared and would seem <br>
to have<br>
> been absorbed quickly.<br>
<br>
I heard the Franks did colonize what is now Northeast France and <br>
Belgium in the way you call the first sort – monolingual communities <br>
of farmers, but nevertheless they lost their language in a few <br>
generations. I guess if Britain were a part of the continent or if <br>
there were a tunnel under the channel built by Caesar or William the <br>
Conqueror we'd probably know now of "British Romance" or "North <br>
French" spoken over there. Look how the Celtic languages were <br>
preserved in Britain while they totally disappeared on the continent.<br>
<br>
raul catalan ramos wrote:<br>
> I have "argued" about this point with my friends several <br>
times.From my<br>
> point of view, according to the number of words inherited from east<br>
> germanic, it is very unlikely the employ of gothic by goths in <br>
Hispania,<br>
> becasuse most of germanic words in nowadays spanish is limited to <br>
only a<br>
> handful examples (as "guerra" (written "Werra" in the ancient <br>
sources ,<br>
> meaning "war") or "bosque" meaning "forest", both of them nearby <br>
the same<br>
> as the italian words for war, "guerra", and forest,"bosco"<wbr>). On <br>
the<br>
> other hand, the lack of written sources in gothic can't be used to <br>
deny<br>
> the employ of gothic among goths in hispania, because the written <br>
sources<br>
> from this period are closely related to the highest elites of <br>
society,<br>
> whose focus was the roman (and then bizantine) culture and the <br>
employ of<br>
> Latin. I agree with the idea that<br>
> gothic vanished in a few generations, but I think that it must <br>
endured for<br>
> some time in rural areas far from the cities.<br>
<br>
Spanish guerra is almost surely a loan from Frankish werra via Old <br>
French. As are many other Germanic words in Ibero-Romance.<br>
<br>
Still, there are a few words which seem really Gothic and which <br>
could rather dispute Dirk's thesis that no Gothic was spoken over <br>
the Pyrennees. I mean words which preserve Visigothic diphthongs and <br>
which therefore could not enter Ibero-Romance from a Latin-based <br>
military pidgin because Vulgar Latin did not have these sounds. <br>
Ergo, they must have been borrowed directly from Gothic.<br>
<br>
Ualarauans<br>
<br>
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