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<p>--- In <a href="mailto:gothic-l%40yahoogroups.com">gothic-l@yahoogroup<wbr>s.com</a>, "ualarauans" <ualarauans@<wbr>...> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Hi,<br>
> <br>
> --- In <a href="mailto:gothic-l%40yahoogroups.com">gothic-l@yahoogroup<wbr>s.com</a>, "faltin2001" <d.faltin@> wrote:<br>
> ><br>
> > [...]<br>
> > Gothic may indeed never have existed as such, but they may just <br>
> have<br>
> > been East Germanic, which we typically equate with Gothic. The<br>
> > Visigoths (I hope you know that Jordanes or Cassiodorus invented <br>
> this<br>
> > name, or is that new to you as well?), lost their Germanic language<br>
> > during the 5th century, after having lived among Romans for some 5 <br>
> or<br>
> > more generations. The Ostrogoths may have stuck with Gothic a <br>
> little<br>
> > longer. Theoderic never referes to Gothic, but he uses the <br>
> term "our<br>
> > language". Yet, this "our language" had almost certainly very <br>
> little in<br>
> > common with the Gothic of the Wulfila bible. Instead, it was <br>
> probably a<br>
> > military pidgin with many Germanic, Latin and some Greek words.<br>
> <br>
> et alibi<br>
> <br>
> >> Just to clarify, there is really no doubt today that<br>
> >> the Visigoths who settled in Spain after 507 didn't speak Gothic, <br>
> but<br>
> >> Latin or<br>
> >> better a Latin military pidgin that included Germanic terms. The <br>
> fact<br>
> >> that all royal documents issued by Visigothic kings are in Latin <br>
> shouldn't<br>
> >> surprise. The same is true for Italy. Yet, even in private and <br>
> Arian<br>
> >> church documents there is no use and not even a reference to an <br>
> other<br>
> >> language, let alone Gothic. In Italy at least some private and <br>
> clerical<br>
> >> documents use Gothic, albeit in a static, archic and formulaic <br>
> way that<br>
> >> shows that the language was more or less dead already in daily <br>
> use.<br>
> <br>
> There's the famous epigram from the Anthologia Latina representing <br>
> Gothic as spoken in Italy in the 6. ct.: eils... scapia matzia ia <br>
> drincan... This doesn't differ significantly from the language of <br>
> the Bible translation. Normalized after the Wulfilan orthography the <br>
> phrase would look: hails! skapjam matjan jah drigkan! ("Hail! Let's <br>
> eat and drink!" – as you see that's no archaic formula but a phrase <br>
> of a living language). This proves that the spoken Gothic language <br>
> of the time of Theoderic (his "lingua nostra") was still close <br>
> enough to that of the Bible, and not a mongrel jargon of Roman <br>
> mercenaries as it seems to be argued in the citations above.<br>
> <br>
> Ualarauans<br>
><br>
I never thought of the Goths and Visigoths as mercenaries but as<br>
auxillaries but I guess this is begging the issue! As to godzilla<br>
versus godzira...remember that those who win in combat write the<br>
history..right or wrong. This is the last law of the bushido..Might<br>
this be the very issue that we face in the case of the Spanish<br>
Visigoths or perhaps their language became part of Catalan.<br>
<br>
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