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<p><br>
Interesting dilemma... It might be tough to find an example of the<br>
word order shifted so radically for the sake of clarity; the really<br>
big divergences usually turn out to have a model in the Vetus Latina,<br>
and Friedrichsen makes a good case for these being due to later<br>
revisions to Wulfila's Greek-based text. And awkward constructions<br>
and ambiguities do sometimes occur for the sake of sticking rigidly to<br>
Greek word order. In favour of the subjunctive, Streitberg cites some<br>
examples of subjunctive for Greek infinitive, Elementarbuch § 315,<br>
note 1, e.g. qaž ei at lagidedeina : EIPEN PARAQEINAI (Mk 8:7). But<br>
where 'žugkjan' is reflexive "to think oneself", there are examples of<br>
both kinds:<br>
<br>
žaim žugkjandam wisan hva<br>
"those who think themselves to be something"<br>
Gal 2:6<br>
<br>
žugkeiž im auk ei in filuwaurdein seinai andhausjaindau<br>
DOKOUSIN GAR hOTI EN THi POLULOGIAi AUTWN EISAKOUSQHSONTAI<br>
"for they think that in their much-speaking they will be heard"<br>
Mt 6:7<br>
<br>
When the infinitive is used though, there is an ambiguity:<br>
<br>
jah žatei žugkeiž haban<br>
KAI hO DOKEI ECEIN<br>
"even what he seems to have"<br>
L 8:18<br>
<br>
galaubjan Iohanne hausjan žuhtedun<br>
"they seemed to believe, to hear, John"<br>
Sk 6:1<br>
<br>
Where the infinitive is used, wouldn't Gothic (like Latin) use<br>
accusative for the subject of the infinitive, if expressed? Cf. 'man<br>
auk ni waihtai mik minnizo gataujan' (II Cor 11:5). What I'm getting<br>
at is: is there a choice to make here between either: žuhta mis ... ei<br>
+subj., or alternatively: žuhta (mik silban) +inf.?<br>
<br>
Something else that I wonder about is whether 'wižro' would be used as<br>
a complement of 'andaneižo'. As far as I can see, all the examples of<br>
'andaneižo' and 'andaneižs' (II Cor 2:7, Col 2:14, I Thess 2:15)<br>
simply take a dative complement with no preposition. That's not to<br>
say that 'wižro' is wrong here -- just something to think about.<br>
<br>
LN<br>
<br>
--- In <a href="mailto:gothic-l%40yahoogroups.com">gothic-l@yahoogroup<wbr>s.com</a>, "ualarauans" <ualarauans@<wbr>...> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Hi,<br>
> <br>
> --- In <a href="mailto:gothic-l%40yahoogroups.com">gothic-l@yahoogroup<wbr>s.com</a>, "gutdwala" <gutdwala@> wrote:<br>
> ><br>
> > It seems fine to me, but a little awkward. I understood the meaning <br>
> of<br>
> > the sentence though. But if nothing like that is attested, I would<br>
> > probably go with 'ei skuldedjau managa andaneižona gataujan', it just<br>
> > seems a little more clear.<br>
> <br>
> Syntactic calques from Greek seem indeed awkward sometimes. The <br>
> infinitive is used both in Septuaginta (DEIN) and Vulgate (debere).<br>
> I know there are cases where Greek infinitives are rendered with<br>
> ei + finite verb (subjunctive) though I can't recall examples right <br>
> now. But I fear that if using the paraphrase like that the connection <br>
> between the object (wižra namo Iesuis žis Nazoraiaus) and the <br>
> predicate (managa andaneižona gataujan) will be lost or at least <br>
> obscured. To change it into 'ei skuldedjau wižra namo Iesuis žis <br>
> Nazoraiaus managa andaneižona gataujan' would mean to digress too far <br>
> from the original. A nice excuse would be a couple of attested <br>
> examples where Wulfila acts this way.<br>
> <br>
> > Does this mean that we're still working on filling in non-extant<br>
> > portions of the translation? It's a little out there, but I've got a<br>
> > few chapters of Enoch thrown together. I remember seeing some<br>
> > reconstructed bits on some sites a few years ago, maybe Matthew<br>
> > Carver's? Are those all in the files section or is that newer stuff?<br>
> <br>
> Well, I just reconstruct separate verses which are needed for my <br>
> research. I haven't seen this particular fragment anywhere else,<br>
> but I haven't seen a lot of things after all. Generally, when doing an <br>
> orderly reconstruction I can't get rid of the feeling that someone <br>
> somewhere has already done this job. The Gothic Bible has been studied <br>
> so long and so thoroughly that all the gaps must have been filled in <br>
> many years ago. There are probably several full versions of the Bible <br>
> by different authors.<br>
> <br>
> Ualarauans<br>
> <br>
> > --- In <a href="mailto:gothic-l%40yahoogroups.com">gothic-l@yahoogroup<wbr>s.com</a>, "ualarauans" <ualarauans@<wbr>> wrote:<br>
> > ><br>
> > > Acts 26:9<br>
> > ><br>
> > > King James': "I verily thought with myself, that I ought to do many<br>
> > > things contrary to the name of Jesus of Nazareth"<br>
> > ><br>
> > > Greek (LXX): EGW MEN OUN EDOXA EMAUTWi PROS TO ONOMA IHSOU TOU<br>
> > > NAZWRAIOU DEIN POLLA ENANTIA PRAXAI<br>
> > ><br>
> > > Latin (Jerome): et ego quidem existimaueram me aduersus nomen Iesu<br>
> > > Nazareni debere multa contraria agere<br>
> > ><br>
> > > Gothic (myself): žanuh žan ik žuhta mis silbin wižra namo Iesuis <br>
> žis<br>
> > > Nazoraiaus skulan managa andaneižona gataujan.<br>
> > ><br>
> > > I couldn't find anywhere infinitive skulan being used like this, so<br>
> > > other variants are:<br>
> > ><br>
> > > ei skuldedjau managa andaneižona gataujan<br>
> > > - ei skulda weseina managa andaneižona gataujan<br>
> > ><br>
> > > Your votes and suggestions?<br>
> > ><br>
> > > Ualarauans<br>
><br>
<br>
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