<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">
<html>
<head>
</head>
<body style="background-color: #ffffff;">
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStartT|**|-~-->
<div id="ygrp-mlmsg" style="width:655px; position:relative;">
<div id="ygrp-msg" style="width: 490px; padding: 0 15px 0 0; float:left; z-index:1;">
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEndT|**|-~-->
<div id="ygrp-text">
<p>Translating Jordanes "back into Gothic" I stumbled over the word <br>
Lat. cerua "she-deer", "doe" (Getica 123-4). It's the fragment where <br>
the legend is told of a doe leading Hunnish hunters the way over the <br>
Maeotic swamp. I could find several options of reconstructing the <br>
word for this animal based on evidence of the sister languages. <br>
These are:<br>
<br>
*algs M.-i "elk" (ON elgr, OE eolh (?), but OHG el(a)ho M.-an). <br>
However, "elk" is not "deer", strictly spoken. The feminine form <br>
could probably be *algini F.-jo or maybe just algs F.-i.<br>
<br>
*haíruts M.-a "deer" (ON hjörtr, OE heor(o)t, OHG hiruz). Seems OK <br>
semantically, but I am at a total loss with probable feminine. <br>
*hairuti F.-jo?<br>
<br>
*hráins M.-a "reindeer" (ON hreinn, OE hrân). Same is here. Or maybe <br>
one could use *hrainadius N.-a covering both sexes.<br>
<br>
Now as I was in any case compelled to resort to a reconstruction,<br>
I thought of another possibility. I speculated that the word (and <br>
maybe the plot of the story as well) could have been taken by the <br>
Goths from a non-Germanic language spoken in the area where the <br>
described event took place. Newcomers are usually apt to borrow <br>
words for local fauna from natives of the landscape, after all. <br>
Being not a biologist I can't judge whether the deer of the South <br>
Russian steppes did to any significant extent differ from the deer <br>
met in places of the Gothic Urheimat (wherever this have been <br>
situated). If it really did, then that's an argument for the <br>
loanword suggestion.<br>
<br>
In my opinion, the donor-language in question could have been <br>
Sarmatian or Alanic, i. e. Northeastern Iranian. The word is<br>
OIr. *sâka-, still living in Ossetic sag "hart". One of the major <br>
Scythian tribes, namely the Sacae, bore this name as their ethnonym <br>
(so Abaev 1949, rejected by Szemerenyi 1980). The voicing of <br>
intervocalic k > g occured in Alanic ca. 2nd – 3rd centuries CE <br>
(Abaev o. c.), while the final vowels were still kept intact. This <br>
corresponds to the time of the presence of the Goths in the Black <br>
Sea region. The resulting Gothic form could have been *saga M.-an <br>
with the meaning "(Scythian steppe) deer". Hence the feminine <br>
counterpart is *sago F.-on (in Ossetic, they say syl-sag, <br>
lit. "female deer").<br>
<br>
Possible objection: the first /a/ in presumed Alanic *saga (> Oss. <br>
sag) must have been a long â. The question is whether the phonetic <br>
system of Gothic did already have the long â too, and, if not, what <br>
sound it could have substituted for it. Proto-Germanic did in fact <br>
turn all â's into ô's, and it involved loanwords too. Examples are <br>
PCelt. Dânuvios > Go. Dônawi, Lat. Rômânus > Go. Rumôns. But later, <br>
Gothic developed an â of its own, in words like brâhta, þâhta etc <br>
where the -âh- is from earlier -anh-. It seems to have been spoken <br>
without nasalization in the "historical time" (Braune-Helm 1952). <br>
Later loans from Greek and Latin display Gothic /a/ standing for the <br>
long vowel: fâskja, pâska (Streitberg 1920). The exact dating of the <br>
loss of the nasalization however is not known. Also, some dialects <br>
of Gothic might have been keeping the nasalized pronunciation longer <br>
than others. In which case the old conventional ô could still have <br>
been used to render foreign â.<br>
<br>
Ualarauans<br>
<br>
</p>
</div>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~-->
<span width="1" style="color: white;">__._,_.___</span>
<!-- Start the section with Message In topic -->
<div id="ygrp-actbar">
<span class="left">
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/message/9850;_ylc=X3oDMTM0a3RzbDVoBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BG1zZ0lkAzk4ODIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMTkwODY0MzI2BHRwY0lkAzk4NTA-">
Messages in this topic </a> (<span class="bld">0</span>)
</span>
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwdXA4YzZqBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BG1zZ0lkAzk4ODIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMTkwODY0MzI2?act=reply&messageNum=9882">
<span class="bld">
Reply </span> (via web post)
</a> |
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlazN1OGU0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTE5MDg2NDMyNg--" class="bld">
Start a new topic </a>
</div>
<!------- Start Nav Bar ------>
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<div id="ygrp-vitnav">
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/messages;_ylc=X3oDMTJlYzRxZXRrBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA21zZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTE5MDg2NDMyNg--">Messages</a>
| <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJldW1zaW1wBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA21icnMEc3RpbWUDMTE5MDg2NDMyNg--">Members</a>
</div>
<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
<div id="ygrp-grft">
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
You are a member of the Gothic-L list. To unsubscribe, send a blank email to <gothic-l-unsubscribe@egroups.com>.
<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
</div>
<!-- yahoo logo -->
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<div id="ygrp-ft">
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJkZmRtNDlqBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMTkwODY0MzI2">
<img src="http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif" height="15" width="106" border="0" alt="Yahoo! Groups"></a> <br>
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/join;_ylc=X3oDMTJmampldm1qBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3N0bmdzBHN0aW1lAzExOTA4NjQzMjY-">Change settings via the Web</a> (Yahoo! ID required) <br>
Change settings via email: <a href="mailto:gothic-l-digest@yahoogroups.com?subject=Email Delivery: Digest">Switch delivery to Daily Digest</a> | <a href = "mailto:gothic-l-traditional@yahoogroups.com?subject=Change Delivery Format: Traditional">Switch format to Traditional</a> <br>
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l;_ylc=X3oDMTJkc3FjYXNtBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2hwZgRzdGltZQMxMTkwODY0MzI2">
Visit Your Group
</a> |
<a href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">
Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use </a> |
<a href="mailto:gothic-l-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=">
Unsubscribe </a>
</div> <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
</div> <!-- ygrp-msg -->
<!-- Sponsor -->
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<div id="ygrp-sponsor" style="width:140px;float: left; clear: none; margin-left: 5px; background:white; margin-bottom:25px ;position:absolute; top:0; right: 0;">
<!-- Network content -->
<!-- Start vitality -->
<div id="ygrp-vital">
<div id="vithd">Recent Activity</div>
<ul style="list-style-type:none; padding: 0; margin: 2px 0;">
<li style="clear: both;">
<div class="ct" style="float: right;"><span style="display:none"> </span>2</div>
<div class="cat"><a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmbzM4bnQ1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzExOTA4NjQzMjY-">New Members</a></div>
</li>
</ul>
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l;_ylc=X3oDMTJlaTEwZ241BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTE5MDg2NDMyNg--">
Visit Your Group </a>
</div>
<!-- Network content -->
<div id="nc">
<div class="ad">
<div id="hd1">Ads on Yahoo!</div>
<p><a href="http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12j4vlt6j/M=493064.10729656.11333347.8674578/D=groups/S=1705739206:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1190871526/A=3848643/R=0/SIG=131q47hek/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/srchv2.php?o=US2005&cmp=Yahoo&ctv=Groups4&s=Y&s2=&s3=&b=50">Learn more now.</a></p>
<p>Reach customers</p>
<p>searching for you.</p> </div>
<div class="ad">
<div id="hd1">Fitness Zone</div>
<p><a href="http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12jo8kum1/M=493064.11305689.11851548.8674578/D=groups/S=1705739206:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1190871526/A=4840951/R=0/SIG=11n59vup4/*http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/healthandfitness/">on Yahoo! Groups</a></p>
<p>Find Groups all</p>
<p>about healthy living.</p> </div>
<div class="ad">
<div id="hd1">Official Samsung</div>
<p><a href="http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12jmqpcmd/M=493064.10972170.11554072.8674578/D=groups/S=1705739206:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1190871526/A=4706133/R=0/SIG=11f8fj6tf/*http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/samsunghd/">Yahoo! Group for</a></p>
<p>supporting your</p>
<p>HDTVs and devices.</p> </div>
</div>
</div> <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
<div style="clear:both; color: #FFF; font-size:1px;">.</div>
</div> <img src="http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=1020598/grpspId=1705739206/msgId=9882/stime=1190864326/nc1=3848643/nc2=4840951/nc3=4706133" width="1" height="1"> <br>
<span style="color: white;">__,_._,___</span>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~-->
</body>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~-->
<head>
<style type="text/css">
<!--
#ygrp-mkp{
border: 1px solid #d8d8d8;
font-family: Arial;
margin: 14px 0px;
padding: 0px 14px;
}
#ygrp-mkp hr{
border: 1px solid #d8d8d8;
}
#ygrp-mkp #hd{
color: #628c2a;
font-size: 85%;
font-weight: bold;
line-height: 122%;
margin: 10px 0px;
}
#ygrp-mkp #ads{
margin-bottom: 10px;
}
#ygrp-mkp .ad{
padding: 0 0;
}
#ygrp-mkp .ad a{
color: #0000ff;
text-decoration: none;
}
-->
</style>
</head>
<head>
<style type="text/css">
<!--
#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc{
font-family: Arial;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc #hd{
margin: 10px 0px;
font-weight: bold;
font-size: 78%;
line-height: 122%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc .ad{
margin-bottom: 10px;
padding: 0 0;
}
-->
</style>
</head>
<head>
<style type="text/css">
<!--
#ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px; font-family: arial,helvetica,clean,sans-serif;*font-size:small;*font:x-small;}
#ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;}
#ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {font:99% arial,helvetica,clean,sans-serif;}
#ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {font:115% monospace;*font-size:100%;}
#ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;}
#ygrp-text{
font-family: Georgia;
}
#ygrp-text p{
margin: 0 0 1em 0;
}
#ygrp-tpmsgs{
font-family: Arial;
clear: both;
}
#ygrp-vitnav{
padding-top: 10px;
font-family: Verdana;
font-size: 77%;
margin: 0;
}
#ygrp-vitnav a{
padding: 0 1px;
}
#ygrp-actbar{
clear: both;
margin: 25px 0;
white-space:nowrap;
color: #666;
text-align: right;
}
#ygrp-actbar .left{
float: left;
white-space:nowrap;
}
.bld{font-weight:bold;}
#ygrp-grft{
font-family: Verdana;
font-size: 77%;
padding: 15px 0;
}
#ygrp-ft{
font-family: verdana;
font-size: 77%;
border-top: 1px solid #666;
padding: 5px 0;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg #logo{
padding-bottom: 10px;
}
#ygrp-vital{
background-color: #e0ecee;
margin-bottom: 20px;
padding: 2px 0 8px 8px;
}
#ygrp-vital #vithd{
font-size: 77%;
font-family: Verdana;
font-weight: bold;
color: #333;
text-transform: uppercase;
}
#ygrp-vital ul{
padding: 0;
margin: 2px 0;
}
#ygrp-vital ul li{
list-style-type: none;
clear: both;
border: 1px solid #e0ecee;
}
#ygrp-vital ul li .ct{
font-weight: bold;
color: #ff7900;
float: right;
width: 2em;
text-align:right;
padding-right: .5em;
}
#ygrp-vital ul li .cat{
font-weight: bold;
}
#ygrp-vital a{
text-decoration: none;
}
#ygrp-vital a:hover{
text-decoration: underline;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #hd{
color: #999;
font-size: 77%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov{
padding: 6px 13px;
background-color: #e0ecee;
margin-bottom: 20px;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov ul{
padding: 0 0 0 8px;
margin: 0;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov li{
list-style-type: square;
padding: 6px 0;
font-size: 77%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov li a{
text-decoration: none;
font-size: 130%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #nc{
background-color: #eee;
margin-bottom: 20px;
padding: 0 8px;
}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad{
padding: 8px 0;
}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{
font-family: Arial;
font-weight: bold;
color: #628c2a;
font-size: 100%;
line-height: 122%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad a{
text-decoration: none;
}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{
text-decoration: underline;
}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad p{
margin: 0;
}
o{font-size: 0; }
.MsoNormal{
margin: 0 0 0 0;
}
#ygrp-text tt{
font-size: 120%;
}
blockquote{margin: 0 0 0 4px;}
.replbq{margin:4}
-->
</style>
</head>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~-->
</html><!--End group email -->