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<p>Hi Francisc,<br>
<br>
--- In <a href="mailto:gothic-l%40yahoogroups.com">gothic-l@yahoogroup<wbr>s.com</a>, "Francisc Czobor" <fericzobor@<wbr>...> <br>
wrote:<br>
><br>
> There might be a connection between the Hungarian "szarvas" and<br>
> Latin "cervus", but not so direct. szarvas is a derivative form<br>
> szarv "horn, antler", the meaning being "having horns/antlers"<wbr>. As<br>
> substantive it means "deer" (any gender), and as adjective: "with<br>
> horns/antlers, horned", as in the compound szarvasmarha "horned<br>
> cattle".<br>
> The word szarv "horn" is common Finno-Ugrian, having cognates in <br>
all<br>
> other Finno-Ugrian languages (Finnish: sarvi; Estonian: sarv;<br>
> Livonian: so:ra, sa:ra; Saami [Lappish]: c^oar've; Mordvin: s'uro,<br>
> s'ura; Mari [Cheremis]: s^ur; Udmurt: s'ur; Komi: s'ur; Khanty<br>
> [Ostyak]: s'arBi; Mansi [Vogul]: s'o:re). This common Finno-Ugrian<br>
> word is considered to be of Indo-European (satem, most probably<br>
> Iranic) origin (cf. Avestan sru:, srva:, Mod. Pers. seru:, suru:<br>
[n];<br>
> other cognates mentioned there are Latin cervus and German Horn).<br>
> (source: A Magyar Nyelv Történeti-Etimoló<wbr>giai Szótára [The <br>
Historical-<br>
> Etymological Dictionary of the Hungarian Language], Akadémiai <br>
Kiadó,<br>
> Budapest, 1976)<br>
<br>
At first I thought szarvas preserves Indo-Iranian a-stem masculine <br>
ending -as, much like Finnish germanisms do. The expected proto-word <br>
could be then smth like *s'arvas "horned animal" < PIE *k'er@w-: <br>
*k'r.w-o- (Pokorny I, 576) – cf. Lith. kárve, OCSl. krava (both <br>
fem.) "cow", OPruss. kurwis "ox" (with a surprising initial k- in <br>
otherwise satem languages). Now I see from your exposition that<br>
the -as in szarvas is a Hungarian suffix and does not account for <br>
gender. Thank you for clearing this up.<br>
<br>
> The old Hungarian chronicles mentioning the deer-legend were <br>
written<br>
> in Latin, the oldest of them being that of Simon de Keza (written<br>
> 1282-1285) (followed by the Chronicon Hungariae Pictum / Painted<br>
> Chronicle of Vienna, written around 1360, etc.). Until now, I have<br>
> found only modern Hungarian translations of Keza's work, where the<br>
> animal appears sometimes as "gímszarvas" (stag), sometimes<br>
> as "szarvas ünö" (doe). But, finally, I have found the Latin text,<br>
> only a part of it, but containing the passage of interest<br>
> (<a href="http://www.konyv-e.hu/pdf/Kezai-latin-r.pdf">http://www.konyv-<wbr>e.hu/pdf/<wbr>Kezai-latin-<wbr>r.pdf</a>): there is clearly <br>
about<br>
> a "cerva" ! The passage reads:<br>
> "Accidit autem dierum una venandi causa ipsos perrexisse; quibus in<br>
> deserto cum cerva occurrisset, in paludes Meotidas illam <br>
insequentes,<br>
> fugiit ante eos. Cumque ibi ab oculis eorum prorsus vanuisset,<br>
> diutius requisitam invenire nullo modo potuerunt. Peragratis tandem<br>
> paludibus memoratis pro armentis nutriendis ipsam conspexerant<br>
> oportunam."<br>
> The influence of Iordanes is obvious.<br>
<br>
It is obvious indeed. Thank you for citing this source. Well, looks <br>
like one argument less for a male deer. Now what we have for a "doe" <br>
in Gothic (a bit of summing up):<br>
<br>
*hinda F.-o (*hindo F.-on; *hindei F.-ein)<br>
*raiho F.-on (*raihjo F.-on)<br>
*sago F.-on<br>
<br>
*demo (?) F.-on seems really problematic.<wbr>..<br>
<br>
Ualarauans<br>
<br>
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