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<p>--- In <a href="mailto:gothic-l%40yahoogroups.com">gothic-l@yahoogroup<wbr>s.com</a>, "ualarauans" <ualarauans@<wbr>...> wrote:<br>
><br>
> --- In <a href="mailto:gothic-l%40yahoogroups.com">gothic-l@yahoogroup<wbr>s.com</a>, "llama_nom" <600cell@> wrote:<br>
> ><br>
> > There we go:<br>
> > <br>
> > <a href="http://www.oe.eclipse.co.uk/nom/drus.htm">http://www.oe.<wbr>eclipse.co.<wbr>uk/nom/drus.<wbr>htm</a><br>
> > <br>
> > Let me know if you spot any masculine pronouns or endings left over<br>
> > from before the deer's gender change (when hind was hart); I <br>
> *think* I<br>
> > got them all...<br>
> <br>
> The only one I (seem to) have found is /Harduba was anaprangan/ <br>
> which is translated "She was hard pressed". But this may refer <br>
> to /žata airpo dius/ rather than to /si/ in the next strophe.<br>
<br>
That's what I had in mind, anyway. I used neuter here for the sake of<br>
the meter, and because 'dius' was the last noun mentioned. But given<br>
what Streitberg says in section 236.1-2, and Wright in 429.1-2 about<br>
natural gender sometimes taking precedence over grammatical gender, I<br>
suspect either would be acceptable here (feminine because we know the<br>
animal is female, or neuter because of the gender of 'dius'). I stuck<br>
to feminine in the English translation though because we've lost the<br>
idea of arbitrary grammatical gender on nouns, so it might be a bit<br>
confusing to shift back and forth between neuter and feminine<br>
(although even in English there's some leeway when talking about animals).<br>
<br>
> A couple more comments while we are upon it...<br>
> <br>
> /waurhtida ijos du wargam/ - (ga)waurhta?<br>
<br>
You're right, of course. Incidentally, the prefixed and unprefixed<br>
forms can both be used perfectively: 'nahtamat waurhta' (Mk 6:21) :<br>
'gawaurhtedun imma nahtamat' (J 12:2).<br>
<br>
> /Wulžuweiseis/ "The glorious Visigoths" but there's an opinion <br>
> that it was rather PG. *wesu- or *wezu- "good" (with a lot of <br>
> parallels in other IE languages) which accounts for Visi(goths). <br>
> *Wulžuwisjus:<wbr>*Wulžuwiseis?<br>
<br>
Good point, I'll look into that. '-wisjus' doesn't affect the meter,<br>
but '-wiseis' will mean a change due to the short root vowel. Any<br>
reason to favour one over the other?<br>
<br>
> /suns selaizos sunnons broþar/<wbr>. Since sels is an i-stem, probably <br>
> seljaizos?<br>
<br>
Yes, well spotted! Hmm, I'm getting a slight sense of deja-vu here, a<br>
nasty feeling that maybe I saw this months ago and got distracted by<br>
something else before I got round to correcting it...<br>
<br>
> /fauhrtjan uns/. A typo!!! (ALARM!ALARM!<wbr>ALARM!)<br>
<br>
Argh, extremely well spotted! I had to read this three times before I<br>
saw what was wrong with it! At first I assumed you must be pointing<br>
out a grammatical error, so I looked at the poem, couldn't see what it<br>
was, then looked back here, and only then did the penny drop.<br>
<br>
> <br>
> /Hvana ahjis, dwala, žatei usdreiban mageis?/ "Whom, fool, doest <br>
> thou imagine that thou might drive out?" perhaps, žanei usdreiban, <br>
> no? And, forgive my pardonless teaching English to a native speaker, <br>
> but is it not "thou mightest"?<br>
<br>
I was thinking of 'hvana wileiž ei fraletau izwis?' (Mt 27:17). But<br>
then we've also got 'žana gawenja žammei managizo fragaf' (L 7:43). <br>
And the 'ei' might be necessary in Mt 27:17 to go with the subjunctive<br>
/optative to give the sense of wishing, so I'm incline to go with<br>
'žanei' as you suggest.<br>
<br>
Since I didn't actually grow up saying "thou might(est)" in everyday<br>
conversation, all criticism is welcome! I was thinking of 'might' as<br>
subjunctive here, used because the ability to drive anyone out is<br>
unreal in the opinion of the speaker. Looking now, there seem to be<br>
examples of both 'might' and 'might(e)st' sometimes either in the same<br>
construction, which makes me think they may have been interchangeable<br>
at least in some parts of the modern period. Where Chaucer has 'thogh<br>
thou myghtest' in the Merchant's Tale, a modern adaptation has 'though<br>
thou might'. Robert Pleasants in the 18th c. writes 'that thou might<br>
be better able', but there are lots of 17th c. examples of optative<br>
'might(e)st'<wbr>, however 'thou might' also appears in the King James<br>
Bible as subjunctive:<br>
<br>
Though thou mount on high as the eagle, and though thy nest be set<br>
among the stars, I will bring thee down from thence, saith Jehovah.<br>
(Obadiah 1:4, KJB 1611).<br>
<br>
That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou<br>
hast been instructed.<br>
(Luke 1:4, KJB 1611).<br>
<br>
Compare: "Though thou pour the ocean into thy pitcher, It can hold no<br>
more than one day's store." (Rumi's Masnavi i Ma'navi, trans.<br>
Whinfield 1898).<br>
<br>
> [...]<br>
><br>
> What worries me about our *raih(j)o:*raig(<wbr>j)o is whether the word <br>
> could by some chance have a -hv-:-gw- alternation after Verner's <br>
> Law. In which case we'd have Gothic *rįihv(j)o:*raiw(<wbr>j)o<br>
> (cf. ahva:awi = OE ea:ķg).<br>
<br>
Köbler reconstructs PGmc. *raigjon, F on-stem. OHG has 'réia' and<br>
'reiga'. I'm not quite sure to get from this vowel to NHG 'ricke'<br>
(Grimm cites dialectal alternatives 'rieke' and 'rücke'), but the<br>
survival of /k/ there suggests that it was originally */g/ rather than<br>
*/gw/. I'm not sure how */wj/ develops in Proto Old English; I'll<br>
have to look that up.<br>
<br>
Thanks for all your eagle-eyed observations!<br>
<br>
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