<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">
<html>
<head>
</head>
<body style="background-color: #ffffff;">
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStartT|**|-~-->
<div id="ygrp-mlmsg" style="width:655px; position:relative;">
<div id="ygrp-msg" style="width: 490px; padding: 0 15px 0 0; float:left; z-index:1;">
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEndT|**|-~-->
<div id="ygrp-text">
<p>Right!....um.<wbr>..I was just about to say that...<br>
<br>
--- In <a href="mailto:gothic-l%40yahoogroups.com">gothic-l@yahoogroup<wbr>s.com</a>, "llama_nom" <600cell@...<wbr>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> <br>
> --- In <a href="mailto:gothic-l%40yahoogroups.com">gothic-l@yahoogroup<wbr>s.com</a>, Justïn <justinelf@> wrote:<br>
> ><br>
> > Is number 2. not triu? I stumbled across it in the Wright link <br>
> > actually, but I may be mistaken. Would 6. be aul? This is <br>
really <br>
> > embarrassing.<wbr>..I'm working on the rest, at work right now so far <br>
away <br>
> > from my Bennett text...<br>
> > Again, this is my first attempt, so as embarrassing as it is <br>
> > hopefully I'll learn...<br>
> <br>
> Ah, no need for embarrassment! I was just thinking of it as an<br>
> excercise in phonetic reconstruction. In other words, what would a<br>
> Gothic cognate of (word descended from the same Proto-Germanic<br>
> ancestor as) Modern English 'wood' look like? But you're <br>
right 'triu'<br>
> does mean "a tree" or "a stick". I guess that illustrates another<br>
> issue in reconstruction: where a word already exists in the same<br>
> semantic field, how might that have related to the meaning of a<br>
> hypothetical, reconstructed Gothic cognate? Does that make sense?<br>
> <br>
> In this case, it seems that the better attested early Germanic<br>
> languages did have a few partly overlapping words in this senantic<br>
> field, e.g. Old Norse has a word 'viðr' which is cognate <br>
with 'wood',<br>
> as well as a word 'tré' congate with English 'tree'. So there's<br>
> nothing improbably about supposing Gothic had cognates for both, <br>
even<br>
> though only one, 'triu', is recorded.<br>
> <br>
> Number 6 is probably the sneakiest one; um, sorry about that... <br>
> ('bath' is much simpler!) A few different derivatives exist in<br>
> Germanic from the same (probbaly onomatapoeic) root, but working <br>
back<br>
> from Modern English 'owl', Old Saxon 'ûuuila', Old High <br>
German 'ûwila'<br>
> you could reconstruct Proto-Germanic *'uwwilôn', or for English<br>
> perhaps *'uwwalôn', since it doesn't show i-mutation (=i-umlaut) of<br>
> the root vowel. The Scandinavian forms also lack i-mutation, and <br>
thus<br>
> might also come from a form without 'i' in the suffix. <br>
Alternatively<br>
> the lack of i-mutation in OE and ON might be due to an early loss of<br>
> the medial (middle syllable) vowel -i- in the suffix. So I'd<br>
> tentatively go with Proto-Germanic *'uwwilôn' (weak noun, feminine<br>
> on-stem), but keep an open mind that a Gothic derivative might have<br>
> existed with a different vowel (namely a back vowel) in the suffix <br>
in<br>
> place of 'i'. The clue to the root of the hypothetical Gothic form<br>
> though is in Old Norse 'ugla' and especially (Old) Swedish 'uggla'. <br>
> These show a sound change common to North and East Germanic whereby<br>
> 'ww' > 'ggw', as described by Wright. In Old Norse, the medial <br>
vowel<br>
> of the suffix has been lost, which is normal, but presumably it <br>
would<br>
> have been present in Gothic (compare 'mawilo' "little girl"), and <br>
the<br>
> 'w' has been dropped, as always between two consonants. So, I'd<br>
> reconstruct Gothic *'uggwilo': weak noun, feminine on-stem, i.e.<br>
> declined like 'mawilo', 'tuggo', etc. One last clue is the Catalan<br>
> word 'òliba', which it's been suggested may be derived from the <br>
Gothic<br>
> word for owl [<br>
> <a href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0406&L=gothic-">http://listserv.<wbr>linguistlist.<wbr>org/cgi-bin/<wbr>wa?A2=ind0406&<wbr>L=gothic-</a><br>
l&P=284<br>
> ]. If so, it's obviously been through some rearrangement, so we<br>
> probably can't read too much into this, but still, it does have 'i'<br>
> for its medial vowel. I wonder if any earlier forms of this word <br>
are<br>
> recorded. Anyway, that's what I'd do.<br>
> <br>
> LN<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> > --- In <a href="mailto:gothic-l%40yahoogroups.com">gothic-l@yahoogroup<wbr>s.com</a>, "llama_nom" <600cell@> wrote:<br>
> > ><br>
> > > <br>
> > > Clue for Number 6: see Wright § 151.<br>
> > > <br>
> > > <a href="http://lexicon.ff.cuni.cz/png/goth_wright/b0071.png">http://lexicon.<wbr>ff.cuni.cz/<wbr>png/goth_<wbr>wright/b0071.<wbr>png</a><br>
> > > <a href="http://lexicon.ff.cuni.cz/png/goth_wright/b0072.png">http://lexicon.<wbr>ff.cuni.cz/<wbr>png/goth_<wbr>wright/b0072.<wbr>png</a><br>
> > > <br>
> > > Clue for Number 4: compare the Modern English verb 'to lay' and <br>
> > cognates.<br>
> > > <br>
> > > > 1. bath<br>
> > > > 2. wood<br>
> > > > 3. dwarf<br>
> > > > 4. edge<br>
> > > > 5. elbow<br>
> > > > 6. owl<br>
><br>
<br>
</p>
</div>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~-->
<span width="1" style="color: white;">__._,_.___</span>
<!-- Start the section with Message In topic -->
<div id="ygrp-actbar">
<span class="left">
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/message/9951;_ylc=X3oDMTM0cmh0YXZvBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BG1zZ0lkAzk5ODUEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjAyNDg3MTcxBHRwY0lkAzk5NTE-">
Messages in this topic </a> (<span class="bld">35</span>)
</span>
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwaXRiMjc3BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BG1zZ0lkAzk5ODUEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjAyNDg3MTcx?act=reply&messageNum=9985">
<span class="bld">
Reply </span> (via web post)
</a> |
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlbGF2dXIyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTIwMjQ4NzE3MQ--" class="bld">
Start a new topic </a>
</div>
<!------- Start Nav Bar ------>
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<div id="ygrp-vitnav">
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/messages;_ylc=X3oDMTJlZWw5NzE5BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA21zZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTIwMjQ4NzE3MQ--">Messages</a>
| <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJlMXY5YmpjBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA21icnMEc3RpbWUDMTIwMjQ4NzE3MQ--">Members</a>
</div>
<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
<div id="ygrp-grft">
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
You are a member of the Gothic-L list. To unsubscribe, send a blank email to <gothic-l-unsubscribe@egroups.com>.
<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
</div>
<!-- yahoo logo -->
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<div id="ygrp-ft">
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJkYnFsaGhsBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMjAyNDg3MTcx">
<img src="http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif" height="15" width="106" border="0" alt="Yahoo! Groups"></a> <br>
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/join;_ylc=X3oDMTJmbGk3OGF2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3N0bmdzBHN0aW1lAzEyMDI0ODcxNzE-">Change settings via the Web</a> (Yahoo! ID required) <br>
Change settings via email: <a href="mailto:gothic-l-digest@yahoogroups.com?subject=Email Delivery: Digest">Switch delivery to Daily Digest</a> | <a href = "mailto:gothic-l-traditional@yahoogroups.com?subject=Change Delivery Format: Traditional">Switch format to Traditional</a> <br>
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l;_ylc=X3oDMTJkMGVhNnBuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2hwZgRzdGltZQMxMjAyNDg3MTcx">
Visit Your Group
</a> |
<a href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">
Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use </a> |
<a href="mailto:gothic-l-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=">
Unsubscribe </a>
</div> <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
</div> <!-- ygrp-msg -->
<!-- Sponsor -->
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<div id="ygrp-sponsor" style="width:140px;float: left; clear: none; margin-left: 5px; background:white; margin-bottom:25px ;position:absolute; top:0; right: 0;">
<!-- Network content -->
<!-- Start vitality -->
<div id="ygrp-vital">
<div id="vithd">Recent Activity</div>
<ul style="list-style-type:none; padding: 0; margin: 2px 0;">
<li style="clear: both;">
<div class="ct" style="float: right;"><span style="display:none"> </span>1</div>
<div class="cat"><a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmdmg0c250BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEyMDI0ODcxNzE-">New Members</a></div>
</li>
</ul>
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l;_ylc=X3oDMTJlbzgzNG5nBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTIwMjQ4NzE3MQ--">
Visit Your Group </a>
</div>
<!-- Network content -->
<div id="nc">
<div class="ad">
<div id="hd1">New web site?</div>
<p><a href="http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13onojes7/M=493064.12016308.12445700.8674578/D=groups/S=1705739206:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1202494371/L=/B=HSjmC0LaX.0-/J=1202487171627471/A=3848642/R=0/SIG=131eshi2t/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/srchv2.php?o=US2004&cmp=Yahoo&ctv=Groups3&s=Y&s2=&s3=&b=50">Drive traffic now.</a></p>
<p>Get your business</p>
<p>on Yahoo! search.</p> </div>
<div class="ad">
<div id="hd1">Moderator Central</div>
<p><a href="http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13oq44584/M=493064.12016262.12445669.8674578/D=groups/S=1705739206:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1202494371/L=/B=HijmC0LaX.0-/J=1202487171627471/A=5028927/R=0/SIG=11e3tma2a/*http://new.groups.yahoo.com/moderatorcentral">An online resource</a></p>
<p>for moderators</p>
<p>of Yahoo! Groups.</p> </div>
<div class="ad">
<div id="hd1">Wellness Spot</div>
<p><a href="http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13p9ud7s5/M=493064.12016299.12445691.11322765/D=groups/S=1705739206:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1202494371/L=/B=HyjmC0LaX.0-/J=1202487171627471/A=4990212/R=0/SIG=11d53kq3t/*http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/curves/">on Yahoo! Groups</a></p>
<p>A resource for living</p>
<p>the Curves lifestyle.</p> </div>
</div>
</div> <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
<div style="clear:both; color: #FFF; font-size:1px;">.</div>
</div> <img src="http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=1020598/grpspId=1705739206/msgId=9985/stime=1202487171/nc1=3848642/nc2=5028927/nc3=4990212" width="1" height="1"> <br>
<span style="color: white;">__,_._,___</span>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~-->
</body>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~-->
<head>
<style type="text/css">
<!--
#ygrp-mkp{
border: 1px solid #d8d8d8;
font-family: Arial;
margin: 14px 0px;
padding: 0px 14px;
}
#ygrp-mkp hr{
border: 1px solid #d8d8d8;
}
#ygrp-mkp #hd{
color: #628c2a;
font-size: 85%;
font-weight: bold;
line-height: 122%;
margin: 10px 0px;
}
#ygrp-mkp #ads{
margin-bottom: 10px;
}
#ygrp-mkp .ad{
padding: 0 0;
}
#ygrp-mkp .ad a{
color: #0000ff;
text-decoration: none;
}
-->
</style>
</head>
<head>
<style type="text/css">
<!--
#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc{
font-family: Arial;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc #hd{
margin: 10px 0px;
font-weight: bold;
font-size: 78%;
line-height: 122%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc .ad{
margin-bottom: 10px;
padding: 0 0;
}
-->
</style>
</head>
<head>
<style type="text/css">
<!--
#ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px; font-family: arial,helvetica,clean,sans-serif;*font-size:small;*font:x-small;}
#ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;}
#ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {font:99% arial,helvetica,clean,sans-serif;}
#ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {font:115% monospace;*font-size:100%;}
#ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;}
#ygrp-text{
font-family: Georgia;
}
#ygrp-text p{
margin: 0 0 1em 0;
}
#ygrp-tpmsgs{
font-family: Arial;
clear: both;
}
#ygrp-vitnav{
padding-top: 10px;
font-family: Verdana;
font-size: 77%;
margin: 0;
}
#ygrp-vitnav a{
padding: 0 1px;
}
#ygrp-actbar{
clear: both;
margin: 25px 0;
white-space:nowrap;
color: #666;
text-align: right;
}
#ygrp-actbar .left{
float: left;
white-space:nowrap;
}
.bld{font-weight:bold;}
#ygrp-grft{
font-family: Verdana;
font-size: 77%;
padding: 15px 0;
}
#ygrp-ft{
font-family: verdana;
font-size: 77%;
border-top: 1px solid #666;
padding: 5px 0;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg #logo{
padding-bottom: 10px;
}
#ygrp-vital{
background-color: #e0ecee;
margin-bottom: 20px;
padding: 2px 0 8px 8px;
}
#ygrp-vital #vithd{
font-size: 77%;
font-family: Verdana;
font-weight: bold;
color: #333;
text-transform: uppercase;
}
#ygrp-vital ul{
padding: 0;
margin: 2px 0;
}
#ygrp-vital ul li{
list-style-type: none;
clear: both;
border: 1px solid #e0ecee;
}
#ygrp-vital ul li .ct{
font-weight: bold;
color: #ff7900;
float: right;
width: 2em;
text-align:right;
padding-right: .5em;
}
#ygrp-vital ul li .cat{
font-weight: bold;
}
#ygrp-vital a{
text-decoration: none;
}
#ygrp-vital a:hover{
text-decoration: underline;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #hd{
color: #999;
font-size: 77%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov{
padding: 6px 13px;
background-color: #e0ecee;
margin-bottom: 20px;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov ul{
padding: 0 0 0 8px;
margin: 0;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov li{
list-style-type: square;
padding: 6px 0;
font-size: 77%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov li a{
text-decoration: none;
font-size: 130%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #nc{
background-color: #eee;
margin-bottom: 20px;
padding: 0 8px;
}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad{
padding: 8px 0;
}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{
font-family: Arial;
font-weight: bold;
color: #628c2a;
font-size: 100%;
line-height: 122%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad a{
text-decoration: none;
}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{
text-decoration: underline;
}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad p{
margin: 0;
}
o{font-size: 0; }
.MsoNormal{
margin: 0 0 0 0;
}
#ygrp-text tt{
font-size: 120%;
}
blockquote{margin: 0 0 0 4px;}
.replbq{margin:4}
-->
</style>
</head>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~-->
</html><!--End group email -->