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<p>Hails "Llama nom"<br>
<br>
>Or maybe the root fidur- would be used. <br>
<br>
Isn't OE. feorža just a contraction of *feowerža ?<br>
<br>
OE. feower - feorža<br>
<br>
OHG. fior - fiordo<br>
<br>
OS. fiwar, fior - *fiwardo, *fiordo (Köbler has "fiuwar" instead of "fiwar")<br>
<br>
According to Köbler the Germanic word for 4 is *fedwor. <br>
<br>
>There's also a question over whether -d- would be devoiced to -ž- to dissimilate it from the preciding voiced consonant, or whether -d- would be kept by analogy with other >ordinal numerals: *fidurda, *fidurža, *fidworda, *fidworža? For comparison, we've got OE. féorša, OS. fioršo, OHG. fiordo (MHG. vierde, mod.G. vierte), ON. fiórši.<br>
<br>
Joseph Wright (Grammar of the Gothic Language; Oxford, 1910): "From žridja onwards the other ordinals were formed from the cardinals by means of the Indg. superlative suffix -to- (§ 244), the t of which regularly remained unshifted in fimfta- and saihsta (§ 128 note 2). In other positions the t became ž by the first sound-shifting (§ 128), then ž became d by Verner's law (§ 136), which regularly became d after n (see §§ 172-3). It is difficult to account for the -u- in ahtuda." (OHG. also has "ahtodo")<br>
<br>
Second try:<br>
<br>
1st fruma<br>
<br>
2nd anžar<br>
<br>
3rd žridja<br>
<br>
4th fidworda<br>
<br>
5th fimfta<br>
<br>
6th saihsta<br>
<br>
7th sibunda<br>
<br>
8th ahtuda<br>
<br>
9th niunda<br>
<br>
10th taihunda<br>
<br>
11th ainlifta<br>
<br>
12th twalifta<br>
<br>
13th žridjataihunda<br>
<br>
14th fidwordataihunda<br>
<br>
15th fimftataihunda<br>
<br>
16th saihstataihunda<br>
<br>
17th sibundataihunda<br>
<br>
18th ahtudataihunda<br>
<br>
19th niundataihunda<br>
<br>
20th anžar tiguda<br>
<br>
21st anžar tiguda jah fruma<br>
<br>
22nd anžar tiguda jah anžar<br>
<br>
23rd anžar tiguda jah žridja<br>
<br>
24th anžar tiguda jah fidworda<br>
<br>
25th anžar tiguda jah fimfta<br>
<br>
26th anžar tiguda jah saihsta<br>
<br>
27th anžar tiguda jah sibunda<br>
<br>
28th anžar tiguda jah ahtuda<br>
<br>
29th anžar tiguda jah niunda<br>
<br>
30th žridja tiguda<br>
<br>
31st žridja tiguda jah fruma<br>
<br>
40th fidworda tiguda<br>
<br>
50th fimfta tiguda<br>
<br>
60th saihsta tiguda<br>
<br>
70th sibuntehunda<br>
<br>
80th ahtautehunda<br>
<br>
90th niuntehunda<br>
<br>
100th hundosta<br>
<br>
200th anžar hundosta<br>
<br>
300th žridja hundosta<br>
<br>
400th fidworda hundosta<br>
<br>
500th fimfta hundosta<br>
<br>
600th saihsta hundosta<br>
<br>
700th sibunda hundosta<br>
<br>
800th ahtuda hundosta<br>
<br>
900th niunda hundosta<br>
<br>
1000th žusundosta<br>
<br>
2000th anžar žusundosta<br>
<br>
Regards, Manie<br>
<br>
----- Original Message ----- <br>
From: llama_nom <br>
To: <a href="mailto:gothic-l%40yahoogroups.com">gothic-l@yahoogroup<wbr>s.com</a> <br>
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 8:52 PM<br>
Subject: [gothic-l] Re: century, events, deaths<br>
<br>
--- In <a href="mailto:gothic-l%40yahoogroups.com">gothic-l@yahoogroup<wbr>s.com</a>, "Lombard" <manielombard@<wbr>...> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Dear "Llama nom"<br>
<br>
Hi Manie!<br>
<br>
> 4th fidworda<br>
<br>
Or maybe the root fidur- would be used. There's also a question over<br>
whether -d- would be devoiced to -ž- to dissimilate it from the<br>
preciding voiced consonant, or whether -d- would be kept by analogy<br>
with other ordinal numerals: *fidurda, *fidurža, *fidworda, *fidworža?<br>
For comparison, we've got OE. féorša, OS. fioršo, OHG. fiordo (MHG.<br>
vierde, mod.G. vierte), ON. fiórši.<br>
<br>
> 20th twai tigjuda (Verner's law ž > d?; or anžara tigjuda, like<br>
fimfta-taihunda instead of fimf-taihunda ?)<br>
<br>
The -j- in twai tigjus "twenty" is part of the nominative plural<br>
u-stem noun ending of what would in the singular be *tigus, so if<br>
Gothic did use a system like this, I'd expect: anžar tigus. (anžar is<br>
always declined strong). If Gothic was more like the other Germanic<br>
languages here and formed a compound word with an ordinal suffix, the<br>
regular form would be -ža (if the same suffix was used as in Old<br>
English), devoiced to dissimilate it from the -g- of tigu-, so:<br>
*-tiguža. But I can well imagine that this might be changed back to<br>
-d- by analogy with other ordinals like ahtuda, so maybe *-tiguda<br>
would be equally possible. We could avoid this dilemma if we used the<br>
-osta suffix, as in Old High German. In favour of -da (or -ža) is the<br>
fact that this suffix is actually attested in Gothic. As I mentioned,<br>
Old Norse -gandi might be a later development by analogy with the<br>
teens. In favour of -osta is the fact that this occurs in Old High<br>
German, as well as in Icelandic for hundreds and thousands (and<br>
probably on hundreds and thousands also in Old Norse, although<br>
examples happen to be lacking).<br>
<br>
> Quite difficult :)))<br>
<br>
Yes! And knowing those Goths, they probably counted in a completely<br>
different way to any of these, just to confuse us...<br>
<br>
LN<br>
<br>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]<br>
<br>
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