<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">
<html>
<head>
</head>
<body style="background-color: #ffffff;">
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStartT|**|-~-->
<div id="ygrp-mlmsg" style="width:655px; position:relative;">
<div id="ygrp-msg" style="width: 470px; margin:0; padding:0 25px 0 0; float:left; z-index:1;">
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEndT|**|-~-->
<div id="ygrp-text">
<p>--- In <a href="mailto:gothic-l%40yahoogroups.com">gothic-l@yahoogroup<wbr>s.com</a>, "llama_nom" <600cell@...<wbr>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> <br>
> Hails, Frițureik!<br>
> <br>
> Sorry it's taken me so long to reply to this; I've been a bit busy<br>
> lately...<br>
> <br>
> > niwi liuț<br>
> <br>
> I think it would be 'niu' (or 'niujata') like the neuter ja-stem <br>
nouns<br>
> 'kniu' and 'triu'.<br>
> <br>
Are you sure about this, coz usually I consider what you say most <br>
believable but I'm not convinced about this.<br>
First of all kniu and triu aint ja-stems but wa-stems. And second of <br>
all shouldn't the j remain in neutre as midi from masculine midjis?<br>
Most likely it should be niuj which makes niwi.<br>
<br>
> > agliț<br>
> <br>
> 'agleiț' "it hurts" (with Sievers' Law: PGmc. *'ij' > Go. 'ei').<br>
> <br>
Ofcoz, this is absolutly correct, thnx.<br>
<br>
> > bruteis<br>
> <br>
> Köbler has *'bruts' and *'brutilo' for "bud", based on loanwords <br>
into<br>
> Romance. Do we have any clue as to what declension this *'bruts' <br>
would<br>
> belong to?<br>
> <br>
I don't know actually what declension this is. I guess it comes from <br>
the same root as in briutan. Do you know any similar cases when nouns <br>
are made from a verb like this and what declension they have?<br>
<br>
> > bristand<br>
> <br>
> Alternatively, you could use the attested verb 'keinan' <br>
or 'uskeinan':<br>
> Jai, agleiț, țan brutilons uskeinand [...]<br>
> <br>
Is keinan a specific word for buds breaking out?<br>
<br>
> > Duhvê sáinjái wêzr?<br>
> <br>
> Some ways of saying "or else...?", "or for what other reason...?":<br>
> <br>
> aițțau duhve sainjai wezr?<br>
> In hvis aljis sainjai wezr?<br>
> Duhve sainjai wezr, alja in țis?<br>
><br>
In hvis aljis sainjai wezr, that sound good to me.<br>
<br>
> Alternatives to 'sainjai' using attested words:<br>
> <br>
> In hvis aljis qimai wezr us trigon? "...come reluctantly"<br>
> Hva aljis latjai wezr? "What else would delay spring? ...hold spring<br>
> back?"<br>
> <br>
> > Duhvê bindada alla gaírnei unsara sô heitô<br>
> > in țamma frusanin báitrafalwin?<br>
> <br>
> Duhve bindada alla gairnei unsara so haito in țamma frusanin <br>
baitrafalwin?<br>
> <br>
> ON 'heitr', OE 'hát', OS 'hêt', OHG 'heiz' would correspond to Go.<br>
> *'haits'.<br>
><br>
Ofcoz, that should've been obvious to me. thnx.<br>
<br>
> > Hulțs was bruts sa alla wintrus.<br>
> <br>
> Accusative is used for an extent/stretch/<wbr>period/duration of time:<br>
> <br>
> Allana wintru bruts hulițs was.<br>
> ...brutilo hulida was.<br>
> <br>
Good, i didn't know. so that's some kind of implicit 'during' meaning <br>
using accusative?<br>
i just forgot the i in hulițs (a typo)<br>
<br>
> > Hva ist țata niujô, țatei taíriț jah spraggeiț?<br>
> <br>
> Hva ist țata niujo, țatei disskreitiț jah distairiț?<br>
> <br>
> 'disskreitan' is used in the Gothic Bible for "tear" (clothes), and<br>
> 'distairan' for (cause to) burst (wine-bags which burst from<br>
> fermenting wine).<br>
> <br>
isn't the simple form tairan attested?<br>
what about spraggjan, is that attested somewhere?<br>
<br>
> > agliț țamma wahsjandin<br>
> > jah țamma lukandin.<br>
> <br>
> That's one possibility. Another way of doing it would be to keep<br>
> those as relative clauses, and make the syntax more like Swedish <br>
than<br>
> Greek:<br>
> <br>
> Jai, agleiț, țan brutilons uskeinand; agleiț țamma, țatei liudiț, <br>
jah<br>
> țamma, țatei galukiț.<br>
> "Yes, it hurst when the buds burst; it hurts what grows, and what <br>
closes."<br>
> <br>
> 'agljan' takes a dative object for the person who is hurt. <br>
> Alternatively, instead of 'țamma, țatei', you can have just 'țammei'<br>
> (see Streitberg: Gotische Syntax, § 348).<br>
> <br>
> LN<br>
><br>
<br>
</p>
</div>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~-->
<span width="1" style="color: white;">__._,_.___</span>
<!-- Start the section with Message In topic -->
<div id="ygrp-actbar">
<span class="left">
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/message/10133;_ylc=X3oDMTM2anB2b3B2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BG1zZ0lkAzEwMTQ5BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTIwOTQ4Njk3NQR0cGNJZAMxMDEzMw--">
Messages in this topic </a> (<span class="bld">0</span>)
</span>
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxcm9iOGxqBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BG1zZ0lkAzEwMTQ5BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTIwOTQ4Njk3NQ--?act=reply&messageNum=10149">
<span class="bld">
Reply </span> (via web post)
</a> |
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlZGU5MXI3BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTIwOTQ4Njk3NQ--" class="bld">
Start a new topic </a>
</div>
<!------- Start Nav Bar ------>
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<div id="ygrp-vitnav">
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/messages;_ylc=X3oDMTJlZGhvdmkxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA21zZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTIwOTQ4Njk3NQ--">Messages</a>
| <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJlNTd2bzRtBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA21icnMEc3RpbWUDMTIwOTQ4Njk3NQ--">Members</a>
</div>
<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
<div id="ygrp-grft">
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
You are a member of the Gothic-L list. To unsubscribe, send a blank email to <gothic-l-unsubscribe@egroups.com>.
<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
</div>
<!-- yahoo logo -->
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<div id="ygrp-ft">
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJkdmhsb25yBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMjA5NDg2OTc1">
<img src="http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif" height="15" width="106" border="0" alt="Yahoo! Groups"></a> <br>
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/join;_ylc=X3oDMTJmdWJ0ZXVxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3N0bmdzBHN0aW1lAzEyMDk0ODY5NzU-">Change settings via the Web</a> (Yahoo! ID required) <br>
Change settings via email: <a href="mailto:gothic-l-digest@yahoogroups.com?subject=Email Delivery: Digest">Switch delivery to Daily Digest</a> | <a href = "mailto:gothic-l-traditional@yahoogroups.com?subject=Change Delivery Format: Traditional">Switch format to Traditional</a> <br>
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l;_ylc=X3oDMTJkYzdkdWZsBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2hwZgRzdGltZQMxMjA5NDg2OTc1">
Visit Your Group
</a> |
<a href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">
Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use </a> |
<a href="mailto:gothic-l-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=">
Unsubscribe </a>
</div> <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
</div> <!-- ygrp-msg -->
<!-- Sponsor -->
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<div id="ygrp-sponsor" style="width:160px; float:right; clear:none; margin:0 0 25px 0; background:white;">
<!-- Network content -->
<!-- Start Recommendations -->
<div id="ygrp-reco">
</div>
<!-- End Recommendations -->
<!-- Start vitality -->
<div id="ygrp-vital">
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l;_ylc=X3oDMTJlYnFlZWI1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTIwOTQ4Njk3NQ--">
Visit Your Group </a>
</div>
<!-- Network content -->
<div id="nc">
<div class="ad">
<div id="hd1">New business?</div>
<p><a href="http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13otjrebs/M=493064.12016308.12445700.8674578/D=groups/S=1705739206:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1209494175/L=/B=DTtUAELaX.4-/J=1209486975960375/A=3848640/R=0/SIG=131an6mds/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/srchv2.php?o=US2002&cmp=Yahoo&ctv=Groups1&s=Y&s2=&s3=&b=50">Get new customers.</a></p>
<p>List your web site</p>
<p>in Yahoo! Search.</p> </div>
<div class="ad">
<div id="hd1">All-Bran</div>
<p><a href="http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13oh7rjie/M=493064.12016283.12445687.8674578/D=groups/S=1705739206:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1209494175/L=/B=DjtUAELaX.4-/J=1209486975960375/A=5202323/R=0/SIG=11aijbghb/*http://new.groups.yahoo.com/allbrangroup">10 Day Challenge</a></p>
<p>Join the club and</p>
<p>feel the benefits.</p> </div>
<div class="ad">
<div id="hd1">Featured Y! Groups</div>
<p><a href="http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13o8mgatj/M=493064.12016306.12445698.8674578/D=groups/S=1705739206:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1209494175/L=/B=DztUAELaX.4-/J=1209486975960375/A=4763760/R=0/SIG=11ou7otip/*http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/bestofyahoogroups/">and category pages.</a></p>
<p>There is something</p>
<p>for everyone.</p> </div>
</div>
</div> <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
<div style="clear:both; color: #FFF; font-size:1px;">.</div>
</div> <img src="http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=1020598/grpspId=1705739206/msgId=10149/stime=1209486975/nc1=3848640/nc2=5202323/nc3=4763760" width="1" height="1"> <br>
<span style="color: white;">__,_._,___</span>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~-->
</body>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~-->
<head>
<style type="text/css">
<!--
#ygrp-mkp{
border: 1px solid #d8d8d8;
font-family: Arial;
margin: 14px 0px;
padding: 0px 14px;
}
#ygrp-mkp hr{
border: 1px solid #d8d8d8;
}
#ygrp-mkp #hd{
color: #628c2a;
font-size: 85%;
font-weight: bold;
line-height: 122%;
margin: 10px 0px;
}
#ygrp-mkp #ads{
margin-bottom: 10px;
}
#ygrp-mkp .ad{
padding: 0 0;
}
#ygrp-mkp .ad a{
color: #0000ff;
text-decoration: none;
}
-->
</style>
</head>
<head>
<style type="text/css">
<!--
#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc{
font-family: Arial;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc #hd{
margin: 10px 0px;
font-weight: bold;
font-size: 78%;
line-height: 122%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc .ad{
margin-bottom: 10px;
padding: 0 0;
}
-->
</style>
</head>
<head>
<style type="text/css">
<!--
#ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px; font-family: arial,helvetica,clean,sans-serif;*font-size:small;*font:x-small;}
#ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;}
#ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {font:99% arial,helvetica,clean,sans-serif;}
#ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {font:115% monospace;*font-size:100%;}
#ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;}
#ygrp-text{
font-family: Georgia;
}
#ygrp-text p{
margin: 0 0 1em 0;
}
#ygrp-tpmsgs{
font-family: Arial;
clear: both;
}
#ygrp-vitnav{
padding-top: 10px;
font-family: Verdana;
font-size: 77%;
margin: 0;
}
#ygrp-vitnav a{
padding: 0 1px;
}
#ygrp-actbar{
clear: both;
margin: 25px 0;
white-space:nowrap;
color: #666;
text-align: right;
}
#ygrp-actbar .left{
float: left;
white-space:nowrap;
}
.bld{font-weight:bold;}
#ygrp-grft{
font-family: Verdana;
font-size: 77%;
padding: 15px 0;
}
#ygrp-ft{
font-family: verdana;
font-size: 77%;
border-top: 1px solid #666;
padding: 5px 0;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg #logo{
padding-bottom: 10px;
}
#ygrp-reco {
margin-bottom: 20px;
padding: 0px;
}
#ygrp-reco #reco-head {
font-weight: bold;
color: #ff7900;
}
#reco-grpname{
font-weight: bold;
margin-top: 10px;
}
#reco-category{
font-size: 77%;
}
#reco-desc{
font-size: 77%;
}
#ygrp-vital{
background-color: #e0ecee;
margin-bottom: 20px;
padding: 2px 0 8px 8px;
}
#ygrp-vital #vithd{
font-size: 77%;
font-family: Verdana;
font-weight: bold;
color: #333;
text-transform: uppercase;
}
#ygrp-vital ul{
padding: 0;
margin: 2px 0;
}
#ygrp-vital ul li{
list-style-type: none;
clear: both;
border: 1px solid #e0ecee;
}
#ygrp-vital ul li .ct{
font-weight: bold;
color: #ff7900;
float: right;
width: 2em;
text-align:right;
padding-right: .5em;
}
#ygrp-vital ul li .cat{
font-weight: bold;
}
#ygrp-vital a{
text-decoration: none;
}
#ygrp-vital a:hover{
text-decoration: underline;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #hd{
color: #999;
font-size: 77%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov{
padding: 6px 13px;
background-color: #e0ecee;
margin-bottom: 20px;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov ul{
padding: 0 0 0 8px;
margin: 0;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov li{
list-style-type: square;
padding: 6px 0;
font-size: 77%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov li a{
text-decoration: none;
font-size: 130%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #nc{
background-color: #eee;
margin-bottom: 20px;
padding: 0 8px;
}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad{
padding: 8px 0;
}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{
font-family: Arial;
font-weight: bold;
color: #628c2a;
font-size: 100%;
line-height: 122%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad a{
text-decoration: none;
}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{
text-decoration: underline;
}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad p{
margin: 0;
}
o{font-size: 0; }
.MsoNormal{
margin: 0 0 0 0;
}
#ygrp-text tt{
font-size: 120%;
}
blockquote{margin: 0 0 0 4px;}
.replbq{margin:4}
-->
</style>
</head>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~-->
</html><!--End group email -->