<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">
<html>
<head>
</head>
<body style="background-color: #ffffff;">
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStartT|**|-~-->
<div id="ygrp-mlmsg" style="width:655px; position:relative;">
<div id="ygrp-msg" style="width: 470px; margin:0; padding:0 25px 0 0; float:left; z-index:1;">
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEndT|**|-~-->
<div id="ygrp-text">
<p>--- In <a href="mailto:gothic-l%40yahoogroups.com">gothic-l@yahoogroup<wbr>s.com</a>, "llama_nom" <600cell@...<wbr>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> <br>
> > Žan, hvan wairsist ist<br>
> <br>
> Žanuh, biže wairsist ist<br>
> Žaruh, žan(ei) wairsist ist<br>
> Jah žan, (swa)swe wairsist ist<br>
> <br>
> (Or any other combination of either 'žanuh', 'žaruh' or 'jah žan' +<br>
> either 'biže', 'žan(ei)' or '(swa)swe'. 'žan' at the very beginning <br>
of<br>
> a clause always means "when". As I mentioned in my previous post,<br>
> 'hvan' would only be used in a direct or indirect question (e.g.<br>
> direct: "when will they come?"; indirect: "I don't know when they <br>
will<br>
> come").<br>
> <br>
could you make combinations of these in any way?<br>
like jah žaruh...?<br>
would žanuh, žan...sound repeatedly?<br>
<br>
> > jah ni waihts hilpiž<br>
> <br>
> That's good. Equally acceptable alternatives: jah waihts ni hilpiž;<br>
> jah ni hilpiž waihts.<br>
> <br>
> > Bristand swe in wunjai brusteis bagmis.<br>
> <br>
> The grammar looks fine to me, and you've got some good alliteration<br>
> there. Alternatively, you could used the attested verb '(us)keinan'<wbr>:<br>
> uskeinand swe in wunjai / in hlasein / miž fahedai <br>
brusteis/bristilons<br>
> bagmis.<br>
> <br>
> > Žan, hvan ni faurhtei ju žanaseižs haldiž,<br>
> <br>
> žanuh, biže waihts faurhteino/agise (ju) žanaseižs/žanamais ni <br>
haldiž<br>
> <br>
is faurhteino genitive plural? so it means then, when thing of fears <br>
no longer holds.<br>
can faurhtei be used as i did?<br>
<br>
> You've got a choice of word orders here. There is a tendency to <br>
place<br>
> 'ni' directly before the verb, but it's also not unusual to put it<br>
> before words like 'waiht(s)' or 'žanaseižs/žanamais'<wbr>, either as well<br>
> as or instead of before the verb. Optionally, 'ni' can be placed at<br>
> the beginning of the clause with the verb directly after it.<br>
> <br>
> > driusand in glitmunjai drupans tainis<br>
> <br>
> Good. (Or: driusand glitmunjandans drupans tainis.)<br>
> <br>
> > ufarmaudjand žatei<br>
> <br>
> Good, or: ufarmunnond žammei<br>
> <br>
> > žlahsnanai wesun<br>
> <br>
> Either 'žlahsidai wesun' or 'žlahsnodedun'<wbr>.<br>
> <br>
nice, the latter sounds fine.<br>
<br>
> > fram žamma niujin<br>
> <br>
> Good.<br>
> <br>
> > ufarmaudjand žatei karanai wesun bi fara -<br>
> <br>
> ufarmaudjand žatei ins *faros/wratodaus kara was<br>
> ufarmunnond žammei [...]<br>
> <br>
I don't understand this at all, could you explain this further.<br>
(i cannot make that sentence make any sence to me)<br>
<br>
> > ufkunnun<br>
> <br>
> ufkunnand, weak class 3 [<br>
> <a href="http://www.wulfila.be/lib/streitberg/1910/HTML/B076.html">http://www.wulfila.<wbr>be/lib/streitber<wbr>g/1910/HTML/<wbr>B076.html</a> ].<br>
> <br>
> > aina stika<br>
> <br>
> The attested phrase is 'in stika melis' "in a moment of time",<br>
> litterally a "point of time", L 4:5 (I'm not sure whether this means<br>
> "immediately, without delay" or "just for a moment, after which the<br>
> vision disappeared) [<br>
> <a href="http://www.wulfila.be/gothic/browse/text/?book=3&chapter=4">http://www.wulfila.<wbr>be/gothic/<wbr>browse/text/<wbr>?book=3&chapter=<wbr>4</a> ]. But <br>
here<br>
> you could maybe use the accusative expressing duration of time 'stik<br>
> melis' "for a moment". 'stiks' is presumed to be a masculine i-stem,<br>
> because of cognates, although it's only attested in Gothic this once<br>
> in the dative singular.<br>
> <br>
should I still use the indefinite ain? would it be ainana stik melis?<br>
<br>
> > žo žwastiža mikiliston seinon,<br>
> <br>
> The possessive adjectives are only declined strong,<br>
I have probably read that, but isnt smth I (obviously) have <br>
remembered, thnx.<br>
<br>
and the<br>
> superlative of 'mikils' is 'maists': žo maiston žwastiža seina;<br>
> žwastiža seina žo maiston.<br>
> <br>
yes ofcoz, this is probably the most stupid mistake anyone has done <br>
ever.<br>
<br>
> > hveiland in žizai triggwein<br>
> > žizaiei fairhvu gaskapjiž.<br>
> <br>
> I'd make this an accusative + infinitive construction: hveilan in<br>
> stomin žatei fairhvu gaskapjiž "resting in the confidence that <br>
creates<br>
> the world"; hveilan in trauainai sei fairhvu gaskapjiž "resting in <br>
the<br>
> trust that creates the world".<br>
> <br>
could you really use infitinive here? hveilan still refers to the <br>
drops, and the form used above as in uskunnand ends with -and, so <br>
shouldnt hveilan also do that?<br>
stomin, dative singular of stoma (weak masculine) right?<br>
shouldn't žatei follow that and be žammei in that case?<br>
<br>
> LN<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> --- In <a href="mailto:gothic-l%40yahoogroups.com">gothic-l@yahoogroup<wbr>s.com</a>, "Fredrik" <gadrauhts@> wrote:<br>
> ><br>
> > The poet strikes again!<br>
> > <br>
> > Just kidding. But I've tried to translate a poem.<br>
> > I just need your ideas about my word choices and ways to express.<br>
> > <br>
> > The original from which I translated is in swedish so now I will <br>
try<br>
> > to translate the same one to english for you to understand.<br>
> > The english translation is probably much mor correct and the <br>
gothic<br>
> > is more freely translated.<br>
> > <br>
> > Gothic first:<br>
> > <br>
> > Jai žannu agliž<br>
> > <br>
> > <br>
> > Jai žannu agliž hvan bruteis bristand.<br>
> > Duhvź sįinjįi wźzr?<br>
> > Duhvź bindada alla gaķrnei unsara sō heitō<br>
> > in žamma frusanin bįitrafalwin?<br>
> > Hulžs was bruts sa alla wintrus.<br>
> > Hva ist žata niujō, žatei taķriž jah spraggeiž?<br>
> > Jai žannu agliž hvan bruteis bristand,<br>
> > agliž žamma wahsjandin<br>
> > jah žamma lukandin.<br>
> > <br>
> > Jai žannu aglus ist hvan drupans driusand.<br>
> > Reirands fram karai kauruba eis hahand,<br>
> > haftjand sik ana taina, swilland, gleidand -<br>
> > Dalaž ins žinsai kaurus, hvaiwa kliggand.<br>
> > Aglus wisan unwiss, faurhts jah skaidans,<br>
> > Aglus ufkunnan diupein žo žinsandein jah haitandein,<br>
> > nauh bileiban sitands jah žatain skudon -<br>
> > aglus bileiban wiljan<br>
> > jah driusan wiljan.<br>
> > <br>
> > Žan, hvan wairsist ist jah ni waihts hilpiž,<br>
> > Bristand swe in wunjai brusteis bagmis.<br>
> > Žan, hvan ni faurhtei ju žanaseižs haldiž,<br>
> > driusand in glitmunjai drupans tainis<br>
> > ufarmaudjand žatei žlahsnanai wesun fram žamma niujin<br>
> > ufarmaudjand žatei karanai wesun bi fara -<br>
> > ufkunnun aina stika žo žwastiža mikiliston seinon,<br>
> > hveiland in žizai triggwein<br>
> > žizaiei fairhvu gaskapjiž.<br>
> > <br>
> > <br>
> > And now, here's my affort to english translation:<br>
> > <br>
> > Yes it does hurt when sprouts/buds burst.<br>
> > Why else would the spring hesitate?<br>
> > Why would all our hot longing<br>
> > be tied in the frozen bitterpale?<br>
> > Hidden was the sprout the entire winter.<br>
> > What's the new, tearing and blasting?<br>
> > Yes it does hurt when sprouts burst,<br>
> > hurting for the growing<br>
> > and the closing<br>
> > <br>
> > Yes it's hard when dropps are falling.<br>
> > Quaking by anxiety they're haning heavily,<br>
> > clinging by the twig, swelling, gliding<br>
> > the weight pulling them down, how they cling.<br>
> > Hard to be uncertain, afraid and devided,<br>
> > hard to feel the pulling and calling from the depth,<br>
> > still remain sitting and just shiver<br>
> > hard to wanting to stay<br>
> > and wanting to fall<br>
> > <br>
> > Then, when it's worst and nothing helps,<br>
> > bursting, like jubilation, the sprouts of the tree.<br>
> > Then, when no fear no longer will hold<br>
> > fall in a glitter the drops of the twig<br>
> > forget that they were scared by the new<br>
> > forget that they were anxious about the journey<br>
> > feel for a second their greatest safety,<br>
> > resting in the confidence<br>
> > that creates the world<br>
> > <br>
> > Site of poeam<br>
> > <a href="http://www.geocities.com/gutiska/glydian/poema.html">http://www.geocitie<wbr>s.com/gutiska/<wbr>glydian/poema.<wbr>html</a><br>
> > <br>
> > Swedish:<br>
> > <a href="http://www.karinboye.se/verk/dikter/dikter/ja-visst-gor-det-">http://www.karinboy<wbr>e.se/verk/<wbr>dikter/dikter/<wbr>ja-visst-<wbr>gor-det-</a><br>
ont.shtml<br>
> ><br>
><br>
<br>
</p>
</div>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~-->
<span width="1" style="color: white;">__._,_.___</span>
<!-- Start the section with Message In topic -->
<div id="ygrp-actbar">
<span class="left">
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/message/10133;_ylc=X3oDMTM2Z2NudjdoBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BG1zZ0lkAzEwMTUxBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTIwOTQ5MDAyMAR0cGNJZAMxMDEzMw--">
Messages in this topic </a> (<span class="bld">0</span>)
</span>
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxdmJoN3RpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BG1zZ0lkAzEwMTUxBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTIwOTQ5MDAyMA--?act=reply&messageNum=10151">
<span class="bld">
Reply </span> (via web post)
</a> |
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlNWpuNWdyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTIwOTQ5MDAyMA--" class="bld">
Start a new topic </a>
</div>
<!------- Start Nav Bar ------>
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<div id="ygrp-vitnav">
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/messages;_ylc=X3oDMTJlZ2Npb3Q4BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA21zZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTIwOTQ5MDAyMA--">Messages</a>
| <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJlNDg1NHFnBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA21icnMEc3RpbWUDMTIwOTQ5MDAyMA--">Members</a>
</div>
<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
<div id="ygrp-grft">
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
You are a member of the Gothic-L list. To unsubscribe, send a blank email to <gothic-l-unsubscribe@egroups.com>.
<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
</div>
<!-- yahoo logo -->
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<div id="ygrp-ft">
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJkNnQydjNpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMjA5NDkwMDIw">
<img src="http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif" height="15" width="106" border="0" alt="Yahoo! Groups"></a> <br>
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/join;_ylc=X3oDMTJmdGIxcWoyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3N0bmdzBHN0aW1lAzEyMDk0OTAwMjA-">Change settings via the Web</a> (Yahoo! ID required) <br>
Change settings via email: <a href="mailto:gothic-l-digest@yahoogroups.com?subject=Email Delivery: Digest">Switch delivery to Daily Digest</a> | <a href = "mailto:gothic-l-traditional@yahoogroups.com?subject=Change Delivery Format: Traditional">Switch format to Traditional</a> <br>
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l;_ylc=X3oDMTJkOHZxZ2FmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2hwZgRzdGltZQMxMjA5NDkwMDIw">
Visit Your Group
</a> |
<a href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">
Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use </a> |
<a href="mailto:gothic-l-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=">
Unsubscribe </a>
</div> <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
</div> <!-- ygrp-msg -->
<!-- Sponsor -->
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<div id="ygrp-sponsor" style="width:160px; float:right; clear:none; margin:0 0 25px 0; background:white;">
<!-- Network content -->
<!-- Start Recommendations -->
<div id="ygrp-reco">
</div>
<!-- End Recommendations -->
<!-- Start vitality -->
<div id="ygrp-vital">
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l;_ylc=X3oDMTJlZzJkMzVoBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTIwOTQ5MDAyMA--">
Visit Your Group </a>
</div>
<!-- Network content -->
<div id="nc">
<div class="ad">
<div id="hd1">New business?</div>
<p><a href="http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13ork28gs/M=493064.12016308.12445700.8674578/D=groups/S=1705739206:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1209497220/L=/B=oeRiBNFJq2o-/J=1209490020400163/A=3848640/R=0/SIG=131an6mds/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/srchv2.php?o=US2002&cmp=Yahoo&ctv=Groups1&s=Y&s2=&s3=&b=50">Get new customers.</a></p>
<p>List your web site</p>
<p>in Yahoo! Search.</p> </div>
<div class="ad">
<div id="hd1">Do-It-Yourselfers</div>
<p><a href="http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13o6gjpdf/M=493064.12117566.12537396.8674578/D=groups/S=1705739206:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1209497220/L=/B=ouRiBNFJq2o-/J=1209490020400163/A=5170408/R=0/SIG=11gfoiqic/*http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/craftsman/">on Yahoo! Groups</a></p>
<p>How-to ideas,</p>
<p>projects and more.</p> </div>
<div class="ad">
<div id="hd1">Y! Groups blog</div>
<p><a href="http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13on8fhke/M=493064.12016258.12582637.8674578/D=groups/S=1705739206:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1209497220/L=/B=o.RiBNFJq2o-/J=1209490020400163/A=5191955/R=0/SIG=112mhte3e/*http://www.ygroupsblog.com/blog/">the best source</a></p>
<p>for the latest</p>
<p>scoop on Groups.</p> </div>
</div>
</div> <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
<div style="clear:both; color: #FFF; font-size:1px;">.</div>
</div> <img src="http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=1020598/grpspId=1705739206/msgId=10151/stime=1209490020/nc1=3848640/nc2=5170408/nc3=5191955" width="1" height="1"> <br>
<span style="color: white;">__,_._,___</span>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~-->
</body>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~-->
<head>
<style type="text/css">
<!--
#ygrp-mkp{
border: 1px solid #d8d8d8;
font-family: Arial;
margin: 14px 0px;
padding: 0px 14px;
}
#ygrp-mkp hr{
border: 1px solid #d8d8d8;
}
#ygrp-mkp #hd{
color: #628c2a;
font-size: 85%;
font-weight: bold;
line-height: 122%;
margin: 10px 0px;
}
#ygrp-mkp #ads{
margin-bottom: 10px;
}
#ygrp-mkp .ad{
padding: 0 0;
}
#ygrp-mkp .ad a{
color: #0000ff;
text-decoration: none;
}
-->
</style>
</head>
<head>
<style type="text/css">
<!--
#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc{
font-family: Arial;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc #hd{
margin: 10px 0px;
font-weight: bold;
font-size: 78%;
line-height: 122%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc .ad{
margin-bottom: 10px;
padding: 0 0;
}
-->
</style>
</head>
<head>
<style type="text/css">
<!--
#ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px; font-family: arial,helvetica,clean,sans-serif;*font-size:small;*font:x-small;}
#ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;}
#ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {font:99% arial,helvetica,clean,sans-serif;}
#ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {font:115% monospace;*font-size:100%;}
#ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;}
#ygrp-text{
font-family: Georgia;
}
#ygrp-text p{
margin: 0 0 1em 0;
}
#ygrp-tpmsgs{
font-family: Arial;
clear: both;
}
#ygrp-vitnav{
padding-top: 10px;
font-family: Verdana;
font-size: 77%;
margin: 0;
}
#ygrp-vitnav a{
padding: 0 1px;
}
#ygrp-actbar{
clear: both;
margin: 25px 0;
white-space:nowrap;
color: #666;
text-align: right;
}
#ygrp-actbar .left{
float: left;
white-space:nowrap;
}
.bld{font-weight:bold;}
#ygrp-grft{
font-family: Verdana;
font-size: 77%;
padding: 15px 0;
}
#ygrp-ft{
font-family: verdana;
font-size: 77%;
border-top: 1px solid #666;
padding: 5px 0;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg #logo{
padding-bottom: 10px;
}
#ygrp-reco {
margin-bottom: 20px;
padding: 0px;
}
#ygrp-reco #reco-head {
font-weight: bold;
color: #ff7900;
}
#reco-grpname{
font-weight: bold;
margin-top: 10px;
}
#reco-category{
font-size: 77%;
}
#reco-desc{
font-size: 77%;
}
#ygrp-vital{
background-color: #e0ecee;
margin-bottom: 20px;
padding: 2px 0 8px 8px;
}
#ygrp-vital #vithd{
font-size: 77%;
font-family: Verdana;
font-weight: bold;
color: #333;
text-transform: uppercase;
}
#ygrp-vital ul{
padding: 0;
margin: 2px 0;
}
#ygrp-vital ul li{
list-style-type: none;
clear: both;
border: 1px solid #e0ecee;
}
#ygrp-vital ul li .ct{
font-weight: bold;
color: #ff7900;
float: right;
width: 2em;
text-align:right;
padding-right: .5em;
}
#ygrp-vital ul li .cat{
font-weight: bold;
}
#ygrp-vital a{
text-decoration: none;
}
#ygrp-vital a:hover{
text-decoration: underline;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #hd{
color: #999;
font-size: 77%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov{
padding: 6px 13px;
background-color: #e0ecee;
margin-bottom: 20px;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov ul{
padding: 0 0 0 8px;
margin: 0;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov li{
list-style-type: square;
padding: 6px 0;
font-size: 77%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov li a{
text-decoration: none;
font-size: 130%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #nc{
background-color: #eee;
margin-bottom: 20px;
padding: 0 8px;
}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad{
padding: 8px 0;
}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{
font-family: Arial;
font-weight: bold;
color: #628c2a;
font-size: 100%;
line-height: 122%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad a{
text-decoration: none;
}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{
text-decoration: underline;
}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad p{
margin: 0;
}
o{font-size: 0; }
.MsoNormal{
margin: 0 0 0 0;
}
#ygrp-text tt{
font-size: 120%;
}
blockquote{margin: 0 0 0 4px;}
.replbq{margin:4}
-->
</style>
</head>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~-->
</html><!--End group email -->