<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">
<html>
<head>
</head>
<body style="background-color: #ffffff;">
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStartT|**|-~-->
<div id="ygrp-mlmsg" style="width:655px; position:relative;">
<div id="ygrp-msg" style="width: 470px; margin:0; padding:0 25px 0 0; float:left; z-index:1;">
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEndT|**|-~-->
<div id="ygrp-text">
<p>Im atracted rather to the concept of re-identification too - regardless we discuse about Goths, or any other of mediaval or premediaval gentes (even modern nations and national states). I only need to know, how far went the discusion about identity problem in the case of Goths. <br>
<br>
In my opinion group identity is a question of political construction, not of real biological ties. Social group, and especially its elite, often used to create narratives about their biological ties (only this "after-narrative" situation is what makes them literally "group" or "comunity"), best reaching to the past times (comon geografical origin - ancient homeland, unbroken royal dynasty and so on). But it does not imply empirical "realness" of this sonstructions; it does not imply, thet events described in such myths (empirical - biological, geografic - ties) are necessary historical real.<br>
<br>
M.<br>
<br>
Michael Erwin <<a href="mailto:merwin%40btinternet.com">merwin@btinternet.<wbr>com</a>> wrote: On May 8, 2008, at 3:15 AM, OSCAR HERRERA wrote:<br>
> i i think our suppositions are unfounded about the goths.....they <br>
> migrated from gutland to the european mainland and transgressed with <br>
> their migration south thru centuries...<wbr>we understand little about <br>
> the germanic tribes and their customs before medeival times so <br>
> supposition means little of them or the goths....i think its pretty <br>
> obvious that germanic tribes expanded thru population then and <br>
> simultaneously descended thru out europe.....i think the goths did <br>
> the same with no help of other races or cultures around them....<br>
><br>
<br>
In the Anglo-Saxon case, it's well-established that it was mostly re- <br>
identification and assimilation, not migration. In the Gothic case, <br>
the historical evidence for re-identification is clearer than the <br>
Anglo-Saxon case, though unfortunately the genetic evidence is not <br>
available. (Wulfila himself was descended from non-Goths).<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------<wbr>---------<wbr>---------<wbr>---<br>
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.<br>
<br>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]<br>
<br>
</p>
</div>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~-->
<span width="1" style="color: white;">__._,_.___</span>
<!-- Start the section with Message In topic -->
<div id="ygrp-actbar">
<span class="left">
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/message/10138;_ylc=X3oDMTM2dHRzZGZkBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BG1zZ0lkAzEwMTY5BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTIxMDk0NjAzOQR0cGNJZAMxMDEzOA--">
Messages in this topic </a> (<span class="bld">9</span>)
</span>
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxaTMycTMzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BG1zZ0lkAzEwMTY5BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTIxMDk0NjAzOQ--?act=reply&messageNum=10169">
<span class="bld">
Reply </span> (via web post)
</a> |
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlMXVpYmZqBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTIxMDk0NjAzOQ--" class="bld">
Start a new topic </a>
</div>
<!------- Start Nav Bar ------>
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<div id="ygrp-vitnav">
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/messages;_ylc=X3oDMTJlM2NrMzBrBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA21zZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTIxMDk0NjAzOQ--">Messages</a>
| <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJlMmU1OXBmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA21icnMEc3RpbWUDMTIxMDk0NjAzOQ--">Members</a>
</div>
<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
<div id="ygrp-grft">
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
You are a member of the Gothic-L list. To unsubscribe, send a blank email to <gothic-l-unsubscribe@egroups.com>.
<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
</div>
<!-- yahoo logo -->
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<div id="ygrp-ft">
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJkaHZvY3VwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMjEwOTQ2MDM5">
<img src="http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif" height="15" width="106" border="0" alt="Yahoo! Groups"></a> <br>
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/join;_ylc=X3oDMTJmMDRiNjF0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3N0bmdzBHN0aW1lAzEyMTA5NDYwMzk-">Change settings via the Web</a> (Yahoo! ID required) <br>
Change settings via email: <a href="mailto:gothic-l-digest@yahoogroups.com?subject=Email Delivery: Digest">Switch delivery to Daily Digest</a> | <a href = "mailto:gothic-l-traditional@yahoogroups.com?subject=Change Delivery Format: Traditional">Switch format to Traditional</a> <br>
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l;_ylc=X3oDMTJkOGRrbGk1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2hwZgRzdGltZQMxMjEwOTQ2MDM5">
Visit Your Group
</a> |
<a href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">
Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use </a> |
<a href="mailto:gothic-l-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=">
Unsubscribe </a>
</div> <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
</div> <!-- ygrp-msg -->
<!-- Sponsor -->
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<div id="ygrp-sponsor" style="width:160px; float:right; clear:none; margin:0 0 25px 0; background:white;">
<!-- Network content -->
<!-- Start Recommendations -->
<div id="ygrp-reco">
</div>
<!-- End Recommendations -->
<!-- Start vitality -->
<div id="ygrp-vital">
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l;_ylc=X3oDMTJlaDQ1MXEyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTIxMDk0NjAzOQ--">
Visit Your Group </a>
</div>
<!-- Network content -->
<div id="nc">
<div class="ad">
<div id="hd1">Yahoo! Groups</div>
<p><a href="http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13o99egfv/M=493064.12662708.12980600.8674578/D=groups/S=1705739206:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1210953239/L=/B=qsrjAkLaSso-/J=1210946039179420/A=5349275/R=0/SIG=11nhsqmjq/*http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/EverydayWellness/">Everyday Wellness Zone</a></p>
<p>Check out featured</p>
<p>healthy living groups.</p> </div>
<div class="ad">
<div id="hd1">Curves on Yahoo!</div>
<p><a href="http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13p35ak0t/M=493064.12016299.12445691.11322765/D=groups/S=1705739206:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1210953239/L=/B=q8rjAkLaSso-/J=1210946039179420/A=4990221/R=0/SIG=11odsb6gn/*http://new.groups.yahoo.com/Women_Of_Curves_Everywhere">A group for women</a></p>
<p>to share & discuss</p>
<p>food & weight loss.</p> </div>
<div class="ad">
<div id="hd1">Learn to live</div>
<p><a href="http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13o1523l5/M=493064.12662709.12980595.8674578/D=groups/S=1705739206:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1210953239/L=/B=rMrjAkLaSso-/J=1210946039179420/A=5349281/R=0/SIG=11ks6tatn/*http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/HealthyLiving/">a full life with these</a></p>
<p>healthy living</p>
<p>groups on Yahoo!</p> </div>
</div>
</div> <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
<div style="clear:both; color: #FFF; font-size:1px;">.</div>
</div> <img src="http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=1020598/grpspId=1705739206/msgId=10169/stime=1210946039/nc1=5349275/nc2=4990221/nc3=5349281" width="1" height="1"> <br>
<span style="color: white;">__,_._,___</span>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~-->
</body>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~-->
<head>
<style type="text/css">
<!--
#ygrp-mkp{
border: 1px solid #d8d8d8;
font-family: Arial;
margin: 14px 0px;
padding: 0px 14px;
}
#ygrp-mkp hr{
border: 1px solid #d8d8d8;
}
#ygrp-mkp #hd{
color: #628c2a;
font-size: 85%;
font-weight: bold;
line-height: 122%;
margin: 10px 0px;
}
#ygrp-mkp #ads{
margin-bottom: 10px;
}
#ygrp-mkp .ad{
padding: 0 0;
}
#ygrp-mkp .ad a{
color: #0000ff;
text-decoration: none;
}
-->
</style>
</head>
<head>
<style type="text/css">
<!--
#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc{
font-family: Arial;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc #hd{
margin: 10px 0px;
font-weight: bold;
font-size: 78%;
line-height: 122%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc .ad{
margin-bottom: 10px;
padding: 0 0;
}
-->
</style>
</head>
<head>
<style type="text/css">
<!--
#ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px; font-family: arial,helvetica,clean,sans-serif;*font-size:small;*font:x-small;}
#ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;}
#ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {font:99% arial,helvetica,clean,sans-serif;}
#ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {font:115% monospace;*font-size:100%;}
#ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;}
#ygrp-text{
font-family: Georgia;
}
#ygrp-text p{
margin: 0 0 1em 0;
}
#ygrp-tpmsgs{
font-family: Arial;
clear: both;
}
#ygrp-vitnav{
padding-top: 10px;
font-family: Verdana;
font-size: 77%;
margin: 0;
}
#ygrp-vitnav a{
padding: 0 1px;
}
#ygrp-actbar{
clear: both;
margin: 25px 0;
white-space:nowrap;
color: #666;
text-align: right;
}
#ygrp-actbar .left{
float: left;
white-space:nowrap;
}
.bld{font-weight:bold;}
#ygrp-grft{
font-family: Verdana;
font-size: 77%;
padding: 15px 0;
}
#ygrp-ft{
font-family: verdana;
font-size: 77%;
border-top: 1px solid #666;
padding: 5px 0;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg #logo{
padding-bottom: 10px;
}
#ygrp-reco {
margin-bottom: 20px;
padding: 0px;
}
#ygrp-reco #reco-head {
font-weight: bold;
color: #ff7900;
}
#reco-grpname{
font-weight: bold;
margin-top: 10px;
}
#reco-category{
font-size: 77%;
}
#reco-desc{
font-size: 77%;
}
#ygrp-vital{
background-color: #e0ecee;
margin-bottom: 20px;
padding: 2px 0 8px 8px;
}
#ygrp-vital #vithd{
font-size: 77%;
font-family: Verdana;
font-weight: bold;
color: #333;
text-transform: uppercase;
}
#ygrp-vital ul{
padding: 0;
margin: 2px 0;
}
#ygrp-vital ul li{
list-style-type: none;
clear: both;
border: 1px solid #e0ecee;
}
#ygrp-vital ul li .ct{
font-weight: bold;
color: #ff7900;
float: right;
width: 2em;
text-align:right;
padding-right: .5em;
}
#ygrp-vital ul li .cat{
font-weight: bold;
}
#ygrp-vital a{
text-decoration: none;
}
#ygrp-vital a:hover{
text-decoration: underline;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #hd{
color: #999;
font-size: 77%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov{
padding: 6px 13px;
background-color: #e0ecee;
margin-bottom: 20px;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov ul{
padding: 0 0 0 8px;
margin: 0;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov li{
list-style-type: square;
padding: 6px 0;
font-size: 77%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov li a{
text-decoration: none;
font-size: 130%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #nc{
background-color: #eee;
margin-bottom: 20px;
padding: 0 8px;
}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad{
padding: 8px 0;
}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{
font-family: Arial;
font-weight: bold;
color: #628c2a;
font-size: 100%;
line-height: 122%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad a{
text-decoration: none;
}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{
text-decoration: underline;
}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad p{
margin: 0;
}
o{font-size: 0; }
.MsoNormal{
margin: 0 0 0 0;
}
#ygrp-text tt{
font-size: 120%;
}
blockquote{margin: 0 0 0 4px;}
.replbq{margin:4}
-->
</style>
</head>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~-->
</html><!--End group email -->