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<p>--- In <a href="mailto:gothic-l%40yahoogroups.com">gothic-l@yahoogroup<wbr>s.com</a>, "Fredrik" <gadrauhts@.<wbr>..> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Doesn't it seem to be as crimean gothic differences from biblical <br>
> also appears in later visi- and ostrogothic as they were spoken in <br>
> italy and spain. Such as e: to i:, o: to u: etc?<br>
<br>
Yes, these two sound changes are found in Gothic personal names<br>
recorded by writers of Latin and Greek, and seem to have been a<br>
feature of spoken Gothic in Italy at the time when the surviving<br>
manuscripts were produced. The scribal confusion of `e' with `ei',<br>
and `o' with `u' affects some parts of the Gothic Bible more than<br>
others; the surviving texts are apparently based on earlier versions<br>
in which this confusion didn't exist.<br>
<br>
> The fact that CG has e as in schwester where biblical has i isn't <br>
> that just a difference that developed as a dialectal form in perhaps <br>
> visigothic?<br>
<br>
It might be that the loss of distinction between PGmc. /i/ and /e/<br>
wasn't a feature of all Gothic dialects. Or it might be that Busbeque<br>
used `e' in some of these words because he assimilated them to West<br>
Germanic cognates that were familiar to him. Alternatively, `i' could<br>
have been lowered to `e' later in the history of Crimean Gothic in<br>
some contexts at least. I don't think there's enough evidence to be sure.<br>
<br>
> if CG have similarities with WG in grammar rather than with Biblical <br>
> gothic, isn't that perhaps because Bibilical gothic has a major greek <br>
> influence and the spoken language probably was more germanic than the <br>
> written and thus more similar to WG than the written biblical gothic?<br>
<br>
One grammatical difference that Grønvik refers to here is<br>
morphological: the use of the pronominal ending in feminine dative<br>
singular adjectives (dorbize). There is no evidence, as far as I<br>
know, that the Greek source influenced the morphology (variable word<br>
forms, inflections) of the Gothic translation, although it did have a<br>
big influence on word order. But the identification of this word is<br>
highly speculative, so it's not at all clear whether Grønvik's<br>
conclusion is correct. If it was a comparative or something else<br>
entirely (which it could well be), his argument wouldn't hold.<br>
<br>
> > 4) Raising of e > i before u/w irregular (seuene, fyder), but so too<br>
> > in other dialects.<br>
> <br>
> Would some exlain this to me.<br>
> Should e have risen to i in seuene? Is the u in seuene a way of <br>
> writing v or w?<br>
<br>
The potential cause of the raising that Grønvik is talking about here<br>
is no longer evident in the Crimean Gothic forms, but still present in<br>
Biblical Gothic: [u] in the case of `sibun', and [w] in the case of<br>
`fidwor'. And yes, the `u' in `seuene' could represent [v] or [w].<br>
<br>
> about fyder: if e has been raised to i, then y is just another way of <br>
> spelling i. But couldn't this be a u-umlaut?<br>
> fidwor > fyder.<br>
<br>
Maybe. One thing that suggests that Busbeque might have used `y'<br>
interchangeably with `i' is that it also appears in `mycha' (Biblical<br>
Gothic `meikeis'), where there was no following [u] or [w] in earlier<br>
stages of the language.<br>
<br>
> OPr maybe it raised from fedwor to fidwor and then u-umlauted to <br>
> fyder with weakened o to e.<br>
<br>
I guess you meant OCr (Old Crimean)? That seems a reasonable<br>
possibility to me. Either of these could have happened:<br>
<br>
[e] > [i]<br>
[e] > [i] > [y]<br>
<br>
And even if the latter had happened, it could have been unrounded later.<br>
<br>
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