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<p>--- In <a href="mailto:gothic-l%40yahoogroups.com">gothic-l@yahoogroup<wbr>s.com</a>, "llama_nom" <600cell@...<wbr>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> --- In <a href="mailto:gothic-l%40yahoogroups.com">gothic-l@yahoogroup<wbr>s.com</a>, "Fredrik" <gadrauhts@> wrote:<br>
> ><br>
> > In crimean they count with ite as one.<br>
> > What is that? Is it from ita = it?<br>
> <br>
> Busbecq actually cites it as 'ita'. Yes, I think probably is from <br>
the<br>
> personal pronoun spelt the same in Biblical Gothic, unless perhaps<br>
> it's a contraction from the numeral 'ainata'. This could well have<br>
> happened if it was used in unstressed positions, e.g. if it came to <br>
be<br>
> used as an indefinite article as in many other Germanic languages.<br>
> <br>
Yes that seems to a reasonable explanation. When unstressed would it <br>
be enata then?<br>
<br>
> > <br>
> > According to zompist the word for one is ene, what's the evidence <br>
of <br>
> > that? <a href="http://zompist.com/euro.htm#ie">http://zompist.<wbr>com/euro.<wbr>htm#ie</a><br>
> <br>
> Must be a mistake, or somebody tried to reconstruct the masculine <br>
form<br>
> of 1 without realising that 2 and 3 are also neuter.<br>
><br>
OK, but when used with masculine nouns it should be used. Shouldn't a <br>
masculine be just en or ens if -s suffix is kept?<br>
<br>
> > <br>
> > Why do the numbers in crimean gothic end with -e?<br>
> > e.g. sevene, nyne and thiine?<br>
> <br>
> I don't know. Maybe the final -e in these numbers arose by analogy<br>
> with athe.<br>
> <br>
> > <br>
> > The e in athe is obvious coz it's a weakened 'au' I presume.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> I think so. Compare sune (BG sunno), mine (BG mena), etc.<br>
> <br>
> > <br>
> > Should th in crimean be read as t?<br>
> > <br>
> > And what about ii in thiine. Is that a long i or two syllables?<br>
> > if so I guess it should have been a short e in the first syllable <br>
and<br>
> > a schwa in the second.<br>
> ><br>
> <br>
> I don't know about the 'ii'. Maybe [i:]? Grønvik thought that<br>
<br>
It was a greek guy who told Busbecq all these words and he could have <br>
some greek influence on pronunciation (as one website suggests), for <br>
instance hails should have been hel (or el) [(h)e:l] but he said it <br>
as iel coz he didn't use long vowels in his greek dialect. And his <br>
short e was broken into ie. If that's correct words such as thiine, <br>
breen etc. shouldn't have any long vowel.<br>
<br>
> initial /t/ and /d/ of Germanic had fallen together in Crimean <br>
Gothic<br>
> as a voiceless stop [t], which Busbeque spells variously 't' <br>
and 'th'<br>
> (similarly /b/ and /p/ > [p], as in 'plut'). But the forms 'goltz'<br>
> and 'statz' made him think that [þ] probably did still exist in<br>
> Crimean Gothic. Busbecq may not have represented it very accurately<br>
> because there was no such sound in his own language.<br>
><br>
B seems to become voiceless before l (plut) but kept before some <br>
other (bruder, bars etc.) Is it the same with g (e.g. goltz), the <br>
word for cry was written as eriten but shouldn't this be griten, with <br>
g remaining?<br>
<br>
I think it's confusing how Busbecq uses the spelling th and tz. If th <br>
is [t] and tz [T] then I wonder why the definite article the and tho <br>
as initla [t] and the pronoun [T]. Further could it be presumed that <br>
[T] was kept initlally before vowel and final (e.g. goltz, statz).<br>
<br>
I realize that this is now off topic and should probably be discussed <br>
under crimean gothic instead, sorry for that ;)<br>
<br>
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