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<p>--- In <a href="mailto:gothic-l%40yahoogroups.com">gothic-l@yahoogroup<wbr>s.com</a>, OSCAR HERRERA <duke.co@...<wbr>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> faur insahts ju mahts fraisan dusdag faur tuesday.....<wbr>swa swe <br>
thoughtaim meinaim<br>
<br>
> <br>
and...<br>
><br>
> wha iupra ist mith allaim innana hansaim gutane....ik niu haf <br>
hausjan ni waihts af ni ainshun....<br>
<br>
--------<br>
<br>
Sadly I have no idea what you said..... <br>
-Aydan<br>
<br>
> --- On Sat, 11/15/08, A. <xthanex@...<wbr>> wrote:<br>
> <br>
> From: A. <xthanex@...<wbr>><br>
> Subject: [gothic-l] Inrto & question on Irtag<br>
> To: <a href="mailto:gothic-l%40yahoogroups.com">gothic-l@yahoogroup<wbr>s.com</a><br>
> Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 2:19 PM<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Greetings all,<br>
> <br>
> My name is Aydan, I just joined the list but have long been <br>
> interested in proto-Germanic culture.<br>
> <br>
> I have a question which I'm hoping my better informed list members <br>
> can help me with:<br>
> <br>
> I'm struggling with the etymology of the Bavarian names for Teusday <br>
> (Ertag, Erichtag, Irtag, etc) and am hoping someone can shed some <br>
> light on the issue.<br>
> <br>
> The following is taken from Jacob Grimm's Teutonic Mythology, <br>
chapter<br>
> 9. Notes in [[ ... ]] are taken from Grimm's footnotes or Supplement<br>
> section.<br>
> <br>
> <begin quoted section><br>
> <br>
> Still more plainly are High German races, especially the Bavarian<br>
> (Marcomannic) pointed to by that singular name for the third day of<br>
> the week, Ertag, Iertag, Iertag, Irtag, Eritag, Erchtag, Erichtag,<br>
> which answers to the rune Eor.<br>
> <br>
> True, the compound Ertac lacks the genetive ending -s which is<br>
> preserved in Ziestac, and I have not been so fortunate as to hunt up<br>
> an Erestac (In a passage from Keisersberg quoted by Schm. 1, 97, it<br>
> is spelt Eristag, apparently to favour the derivation from 'dies<br>
> aeris.') in the older records of the 13-14 centuries; nevertheless<br>
> the coincidence of the double names for the day and for the rune<br>
> should be conclusive here, and we must suppose an OHG. Erestac, to<br>
> match the Eresberg.<br>
> <br>
> ((Grimm compares Zio to Zeus and then states:))<br>
> we see at a glance that Eor, Er, Ear, is one with Arhj the son of<br>
> Zeus;<br>
> <br>
> Have we any means now left of getting at the sense of this obscure<br>
> root Eor?<br>
> The description of the rune in the AS. poem gives only a slight <br>
hint,<br>
> it runs thus:<br>
> <br>
> Eor is horrible to every knight,<br>
> when the corpse quickly begins to cool<br>
> and is laid in the bosom of the dark earth.<br>
> Prosperity declines, happiness passes away<br>
> and covenants are broken.<br>
> <br>
> or<br>
> <br>
> Earth is loathsome to each nobleman,<br>
> when flesh firmly tries to choose the ground,<br>
> fallen fruits as bedmates,<br>
> joy vanishes,<br>
> man turns traitor.<br>
> ((Rune poem translations not from Grimm)<br>
> <br>
> The description is of death coming on, and earthly joys dropping <br>
off;<br>
> but who can that be, that at such a time is burdensome (egle, ail-<br>
> some) to men? The ordinary meaning of ear, spica, arista, can be of<br>
> no use here; I suppose that approaching dissolution, a personified<br>
> death is to be understood, from which a transition to the <br>
destructive<br>
> god of battles, the brotoluigÒj, miaifÒnoj Arhj , is easy to<br>
> conceive. [[ Or, without the need of any transition, Ear might at<br>
> once be Ares: 'war is burdensome in old age'.]]<br>
> <br>
> Arhj itself is used abstractly by the Greeks for destruction, <br>
murder,<br>
> pestilence, just as our Wuotan is for furor and belli impetus.<br>
> <br>
> <end quoted section><br>
> <br>
> To follow up, I copied the next bit from the archives of this list:<br>
> <br>
> <start section><br>
> <br>
> several weekdays names were borrowed by the Goths from the Greek in <br>
a<br>
> manner like this:<br>
> <br>
> ARHOS hHMERA "the day of Ares" > *Arjaus dags or *Areins dags > OB<br>
> erintag > NB ertag, erchtag, ergetag, irtag, irchtag<br>
> <br>
> PEMPTH hHMERA "the fifth day" (> via a colloquial compound<br>
> *PENTHMERA - ?) > *paintedags > still more "Gothicized" *pintadags ><br>
> NB pfinztag, pfünztag<br>
> <br>
> PARASKEUH "(the day of) preparation" > paraskaiwe (Mc 15:42) ><br>
> *pareinsdags > OB pferintag<br>
> <br>
> SABBATOU hHMERA "the day of Sabbath" > sabbato dags (Mc 2:27 et<br>
> passim) > *sambatadags > OB sambaztag > NHG Samstag<br>
> <br>
> <end section><br>
> <br>
> How well supported is the the progression of ARHOS hHMERA > *Arjaus <br>
> dags or *Areins dags > OB erintag > NB ertag, erchtag, ergetag, <br>
> irtag, irchtag ... ???<br>
> I'm curious as to how these Bavarian names descend from the Greek <br>
> Ares rather than the Latin Mars.<br>
> <br>
> Thanks in advance for any ideas or help!<br>
> -Aydan<br>
> <br>
<br>
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