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<p>> The angel who comes to Mary greets her with the imperative verb<br>
> 'fagino' "rejoice" or "be happy". This translates Greek CAIRE, as <br>
does<br>
> 'hails' when the soldiers mock Jesus, saying 'hails, þiudan(s) <br>
Iudaie'<br>
> "hail, king of the Jews".<br>
> <br>
<br>
OK, but it's kinda weird if one would greet today by saying "be <br>
happy" so I wouldnt prefer that one.<br>
<br>
> Busbecq's list of Crimean Gothic words and expressions includes<br>
> 'knauen tag' "good day", which in Biblical Gothic would be 'godana<br>
> dag' - accusative because it's really short for something like "I <br>
wish<br>
> you a good day" or "have a good day".<br>
> <br>
<br>
Godana dag is ofcourse a good one. Eventhough it's not known from the <br>
bible it's similar to modern germanic languages, and also crimean <br>
gothic.<br>
<br>
But a need for smth shorter is obvious. And hails fills that need I <br>
think. Just as english Hi or hello does.<br>
<br>
> > I think it is most logic to use vocative now when you say it. But <br>
> > haven't most people here used dative?<br>
> <br>
> True, but I think they're probably basing this idioms in their own<br>
> languages, including Modern English. The other old Germanic <br>
languages<br>
> use nominative, declining the adjective for gender and number. <br>
Here's<br>
> a good example from the Old Norse poem Sigrdrífumál: Heill dagr.<br>
> Heilir dags synir. Heil nótt ok nipt. [...] Heilir æsir. Heilar<br>
> ásynjur. Heil sjá in fjölnýta fold. "Hail, day. Hail, day's sons.<br>
> Hail, night and [her] daughter [...] Hail, gods. Hail, goddesses.<br>
> Hail, you bountiful earth." You could also translate this into <br>
Modern<br>
> English as "Hail to the gods [...] Hail to the bountiful earth" etc.<br>
> <br>
<br>
Yea, maybe the use of dative is from their native languages, perhaps <br>
a common error.<br>
<br>
> > > 'fram' is always used with the dative, as far as I know, except <br>
> > where<br>
> > > a noun refering to someone's house is implied: gaggiþ sums <br>
manne <br>
> > fram<br>
> > > þis fauramaþleis swnagogais "a man came from (the house) of the <br>
> > ruler<br>
> > > of the synagogue" (L 8:49).<br>
> > > <br>
> > <br>
> > So if I say "I come from Sweden" or "I am going away from the <br>
house" <br>
> > whould I use dative or genitive then?<br>
> <br>
> Dative for both. The genitive is only used where you're talking <br>
about<br>
> a particular person's house and the word for "house" is left <br>
unspoken.<br>
> So 'fram' never really governs the genitive, it just happens to look<br>
> as if it does in that example because the word for "house" has been<br>
> left out.<br>
> <br>
> laistidedun afar Iesua fram Galeilaia<br>
> "followed Jesus from Galilee" (dative)<br>
> <br>
> qemun fram þamma swnagogafada<br>
> "they came from the ruler of the synagogue" (dative)<br>
> <br>
> raus fram winda wagidata<br>
> "a reed blown by the wind" (dative)<br>
> <br>
> fram þizai hveilai jainai<br>
> "from that time (forth)" (dative)<br>
> <br>
> ni faraiþ us garda in gard<br>
> "don't go from house to house" (dative).<br>
> <br>
> I couldn't find any examples of 'fram garda'. They just seemed to<br>
> prefer 'us garda'.<br>
> <br>
> us garda Daweidis<br>
> "from the house of David"<br>
> <br>
> But:<br>
> <br>
> fram þis fauramaþleis swnagogais<br>
> "from [the house] of the ruler of the synagogue"<br>
> <br>
<br>
OK. I am now totaly convinced here.<br>
<br>
> > If the singular form goleins is attested and so also the verb <br>
goljan. <br>
> > Then we probably can assume that goleins would be goleineis in <br>
> > plural, right? Since other nouns ending in -eins and made from <br>
verbs <br>
> > do end in -eineis in plural?<br>
> <br>
> -einos. Abstract feminine nouns in -eins, -ons and -ains are <br>
declined<br>
> as i-stems, except that the -eins nouns have nominative and genitive<br>
> plural like o-stems: -einos, -eino. So the nominative plural of<br>
> 'goleins' would be 'goleinos', but whether Gothic speakers used the<br>
> word for "greetings" as a greeting, or whether this would have <br>
sounded<br>
> bizarre to them, is hard to know.<br>
><br>
<br>
But I was right that it is an i-stem. The exception with ending in -<br>
os and -o was unknown to me. So thnx for that.<br>
<br>
It would probably be weird to use the noun to greet if it is an <br>
initial greeting, but when ending a message I think it is acceptable, <br>
just as in modern languages such as english and swedish to, where you <br>
could say "hälsningar *your name*".<br>
<br>
As you might understand havent I based any of my suggestions on <br>
sources from gothic texts.<br>
<br>
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