<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">
<html>
<head>
</head>
<body style="background-color: #ffffff;">
<span style="display:none"> </span>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStartT|**|-~-->
<div id="ygrp-mlmsg" style="width:655px; position:relative;">
<div id="ygrp-msg" style="width: 470px; margin:0; padding:0 25px 0 0; float:left; z-index:1;">
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEndT|**|-~-->
<div id="ygrp-text" >
<p>Gregory,<br>
<br>
This phenomenon persists throughout medieval northern European languages,<br>
and some modern Slavonic languages continue to use words derived from<br>
elephantos when they mean "camel" (Czech velbloud). The Slavonic words<br>
appear to be a Germanic borrowing.<br>
<br>
The OED's entry for Old English "olfend" is one of the few items that I've<br>
come across with an etymological summary longer than the definition<br>
and listing of recorded instances. The Great Dictionary does not make<br>
claims as to the origins of the confusion; neither does it confirm or deny<br>
the claims of some scholars that olfend, ulbandus, etc. represent a shared<br>
PIE root with elephantos.<br>
<br>
I can only guess that the mistake was made early, and stuck. Terribly<br>
unromantic on my part...<br>
<br>
Ian<br>
<br>
On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 4:33 PM, g_scaff <<a href="mailto:g_scaff%40yahoo.com">g_scaff@yahoo.<wbr>com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
><br>
><br>
> Greetings all,<br>
> I am asking for your insights re: the Gothic word "ulbandus", camel.<br>
> If I read Koebler correctly, this word derives from the Greek "elephantos"<wbr>,<br>
> meaning "elephant", whereas the Greek word in the biblical text is<br>
> "kamelos", meaning "camel".<br>
> I guess that the Goths weren't overly familiar with either animal, but<br>
> surely they must have seen them in the Roman world. How did the word for<br>
> elephant get substituted for camel?<br>
> thanks,<br>
> Gregory<br>
><br>
> <br>
><br>
<br>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]<br>
<br>
</p>
</div>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~-->
<div width="1" style="color: white; clear: both;">__._,_.___</div>
<!-- Start the section with Message In topic -->
<div id="ygrp-actbar" style="clear: both; margini-bottom: 25px; white-space:nowrap; color: #666; text-align: right;">
<span class="left" style="float: left; white-space:nowrap;">
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/message/10360;_ylc=X3oDMTM2YTdrOHNvBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BG1zZ0lkAzEwMzYxBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTI0Nzg2OTEyMQR0cGNJZAMxMDM2MA--">
Messages in this topic </a> (<span class="bld" style="font-weight:bold;">2</span>)
</span>
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxaXZtaTFrBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BG1zZ0lkAzEwMzYxBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTI0Nzg2OTEyMQ--?act=reply&messageNum=10361">
<span class="bld" style="font-weight:bold;">
Reply </span> (via web post)
</a> |
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlMDJvdmU5BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTI0Nzg2OTEyMQ--" class="bld" style="font-weight:bold;">
Start a new topic </a>
</div>
<!------- Start Nav Bar ------>
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<div id="ygrp-vitnav" style="padding-top: 10px; font-family: Verdana; font-size: 77%; margin: 0;">
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/messages;_ylc=X3oDMTJlMGRlMzVmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA21zZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTI0Nzg2OTEyMQ--">Messages</a>
| <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/files;_ylc=X3oDMTJmZGdjb3FjBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2ZpbGVzBHN0aW1lAzEyNDc4NjkxMjE-">Files</a>
| <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/photos;_ylc=X3oDMTJlMzhxZmFpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Bob3QEc3RpbWUDMTI0Nzg2OTEyMQ--">Photos</a>
| <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJlM2xmMHRzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA21icnMEc3RpbWUDMTI0Nzg2OTEyMQ--">Members</a>
</div>
<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
<div id="ygrp-grft" style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 77%; padding: 15px 0;">
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
You are a member of the Gothic-L list. To unsubscribe, send a blank email to <gothic-l-unsubscribe@egroups.com>.
<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
</div>
<div id="ygrp-mkp">
<div id="hd">MARKETPLACE</div>
<div id="ads">
<div class="ad" style="color:#628C2A; font-family:Arial; font-weight:bold;">
<a href="http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=14kbqj04t/M=493064.12016295.13271503.10835568/D=groups/S=1705739206:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1247876321/L=/B=z7jjAkPDhEc-/J=1247869121361195/K=HQ5.v42EYug755cQIzbzHg/A=5697381/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/*http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/">Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their families, for the world and for each other</a> </div>
</div>
</div>
<!-- yahoo logo -->
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<div id="ygrp-ft" style="font-family: verdana; font-size: 77%; border-top: 1px solid #666; padding: 5px 0;">
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJkc3RwNjl1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMjQ3ODY5MTIx">
<img src="http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif" height="15" width="106" border="0" alt="Yahoo! Groups"></a> <br>
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/join;_ylc=X3oDMTJmZGxpcWJsBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3N0bmdzBHN0aW1lAzEyNDc4NjkxMjE-">Change settings via the Web</a> (Yahoo! ID required) <br>
Change settings via email: <a href="mailto:gothic-l-digest@yahoogroups.com?subject=Email Delivery: Digest">Switch delivery to Daily Digest</a> | <a href = "mailto:gothic-l-traditional@yahoogroups.com?subject=Change Delivery Format: Traditional">Switch format to Traditional</a> <br>
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l;_ylc=X3oDMTJkZnFibWY4BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2hwZgRzdGltZQMxMjQ3ODY5MTIx">
Visit Your Group
</a> |
<a href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">
Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use </a> |
<a href="mailto:gothic-l-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=">
Unsubscribe </a>
</div> <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
</div> <!-- ygrp-msg -->
<!-- Sponsor -->
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<div id="ygrp-sponsor" style="width:160px; float:right; clear:none; margin:0 0 25px 0; background: white;">
<!-- Network content -->
<!-- Start Recommendations -->
<div id="ygrp-reco">
</div>
<!-- End Recommendations -->
<!-- Start vitality -->
<div id="ygrp-vital" style="background-color: #e0ecee; margin-bottom: 20px; padding: 2px 0 8px 8px;">
<div id="vithd" style="font-size: 77%; font-family: Verdana; font-weight: bold; color: #333; text-transform: uppercase;">Recent Activity</div>
<ul style="list-style-type:none; padding: 0; margin: 2px 0;">
</ul>
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l;_ylc=X3oDMTJlZGtyZ3IyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NzM5MjA2BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTI0Nzg2OTEyMQ--">
Visit Your Group </a>
</div>
<!-- Network content -->
<div style="background-color:#EEEEEE; margin-bottom:20px; padding:10px 8px;"> <div id="nc">
<div class="ad" style="color:#628C2A; font-family:Arial; font-weight:bold;">
<div id="hd1">Need traffic?</div>
<p><a href="http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=14hjk6s0s/M=493064.12016308.12445700.8674578/D=groups/S=1705739206:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1247876321/L=/B=0LjjAkPDhEc-/J=1247869121361195/K=HQ5.v42EYug755cQIzbzHg/A=3848644/R=0/SIG=131l83flq/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/srchv2.php?o=US2006&cmp=Yahoo&ctv=Groups5&s=Y&s2=&s3=&b=50">Drive customers</a></p>
<p>With search ads</p>
<p>on Yahoo!</p> </div>
<div class="ad" style="color:#628C2A; font-family:Arial; font-weight:bold;">
<div id="hd1">Yahoo! Groups</div>
<p><a href="http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=14hmhq0ir/M=493064.12016272.13586184.8674578/D=groups/S=1705739206:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1247876321/L=/B=0bjjAkPDhEc-/J=1247869121361195/K=HQ5.v42EYug755cQIzbzHg/A=5758222/R=0/SIG=124m43uve/*http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/BankofAmerica_SmallBusiness/">Small Business Group</a></p>
<p>Improve your business</p>
<p>by community exchange</p> </div>
<div class="ad" style="color:#628C2A; font-family:Arial; font-weight:bold;">
<div id="hd1">Yahoo! Groups</div>
<p><a href="http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=14ht2ss73/M=493064.12717544.13455789.8674578/D=groups/S=1705739206:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1247876321/L=/B=0rjjAkPDhEc-/J=1247869121361195/K=HQ5.v42EYug755cQIzbzHg/A=5658254/R=0/SIG=11ptgj47g/*http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/autoenthusiastzone/">Auto Enthusiast Zone</a></p>
<p>Auto Enthusiast Zone</p>
<p>Discover auto groups</p> </div>
</div>
</div>
</div> <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
<div style="clear:both; color: #FFF; font-size:1px;">.</div>
</div> <img src="http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=1020598/grpspId=1705739206/msgId=10361/stime=1247869121/nc1=3848644/nc2=5758222/nc3=5658254" width="1" height="1"> <br>
<div style="color: white; clear: both;">__,_._,___</div>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~-->
</body>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~-->
<head>
<style type="text/css">
<!--
#ygrp-mkp{
border: 1px solid #d8d8d8;
font-family: Arial;
margin: 14px 0px;
padding: 0px 14px;
}
#ygrp-mkp hr{
border: 1px solid #d8d8d8;
}
#ygrp-mkp #hd{
color: #628c2a;
font-size: 85%;
font-weight: bold;
line-height: 122%;
margin: 10px 0px;
}
#ygrp-mkp #ads{
margin-bottom: 10px;
}
#ygrp-mkp .ad{
padding: 0 0;
}
#ygrp-mkp .ad a{
color: #0000ff;
text-decoration: none;
}
-->
</style>
</head>
<head>
<style type="text/css">
<!--
#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc{
font-family: Arial;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc #hd{
margin: 10px 0px;
font-weight: bold;
font-size: 78%;
line-height: 122%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc .ad{
margin-bottom: 10px;
padding: 0 0;
}
-->
</style>
</head>
<head>
<style type="text/css">
<!--
#ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px; font-family: arial,helvetica,clean,sans-serif;*font-size:small;*font:x-small;}
#ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;}
#ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {font:99% arial,helvetica,clean,sans-serif;}
#ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {font:115% monospace;*font-size:100%;}
#ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;}
#ygrp-text{
font-family: Georgia;
}
#ygrp-text p{
margin: 0 0 1em 0;
}
dd.last p a {
font-family: Verdana;
font-weight: bold;
}
#ygrp-vitnav{
padding-top: 10px;
font-family: Verdana;
font-size: 77%;
margin: 0;
}
#ygrp-vitnav a{
padding: 0 1px;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg #logo{
padding-bottom: 10px;
}
#ygrp-reco {
margin-bottom: 20px;
padding: 0px;
}
#ygrp-reco #reco-head {
font-weight: bold;
color: #ff7900;
}
#reco-category{
font-size: 77%;
}
#reco-desc{
font-size: 77%;
}
#ygrp-vital a{
text-decoration: none;
}
#ygrp-vital a:hover{
text-decoration: underline;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov ul{
padding: 0 0 0 8px;
margin: 0;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov li{
list-style-type: square;
padding: 6px 0;
font-size: 77%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov li a{
text-decoration: none;
font-size: 130%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #nc{
background-color: #eee;
margin-bottom: 20px;
padding: 0 8px;
}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad{
padding: 8px 0;
}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{
font-family: Arial;
font-weight: bold;
color: #628c2a;
font-size: 100%;
line-height: 122%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad a{
text-decoration: none;
}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{
text-decoration: underline;
}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad p{
margin: 0;
font-weight: normal;
color: #000000;
}
o{font-size: 0; }
.MsoNormal{
margin: 0 0 0 0;
}
#ygrp-text tt{
font-size: 120%;
}
blockquote{margin: 0 0 0 4px;}
.replbq{margin:4}
dd.last p span {
margin-right: 10px;
font-family: Verdana;
font-weight: bold;
}
dd.last p span.yshortcuts {
margin-right: 0;
}
div.photo-title a,
div.photo-title a:active,
div.photo-title a:hover,
div.photo-title a:visited {
text-decoration: none;
}
div.file-title a,
div.file-title a:active,
div.file-title a:hover,
div.file-title a:visited {
text-decoration: none;
}
#ygrp-msg p#attach-count {
clear: both;
padding: 15px 0 3px 0;
overflow: hidden;
}
#ygrp-msg p#attach-count span {
color: #1E66AE;
font-weight: bold;
}
div#ygrp-mlmsg #ygrp-msg p a span.yshortcuts {
font-family: Verdana;
font-size: 10px;
font-weight: normal;
}
#ygrp-msg p a {
font-family: Verdana;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg a {
color: #1E66AE;
}
div.attach-table div div a {
text-decoration: none;
}
div.attach-table {
width: 400px;
}
-->
</style>
</head>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~-->
</html><!--End group email -->