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<p>Hi, gadrauhts and all other members.<br>
<br>
About perfects in Gothic, and sorry for taking a long time about answering. <br>
First, a longish digression, summarising an unsystematic look at parts of <br>
the Gothic New Testament and the original Greek, which indicates the <br>
following.<br>
<br>
Where translations into English have a perfect Gothic regularly uses a <br>
preterite. This is true even when the construction is virtually a present ("I <br>
have been with you so long") and would, I believe, be so translated in, eg, <br>
French and German. However, we should bear in mind that the translation was <br>
made from documents written in Greek, in which a preterite usually lies <br>
behind a construction that in English is expressed by a perfect. The perfect <br>
seems to be used much more sparingly in Greek than in English. Where a <br>
Greek perfect is used, it still seems to be a preterite in Gothic, as in the <br>
following examples, in which the original Greek is followed by its <br>
translations into Gothic and English:<br>
<br>
Mark 1:15<br>
engike he basileia tou theou (the kingdom has drawn near)<br>
atnehvida sik thiudangardi guths (the kingdom approached)<br>
the kingdom of God is at hand (RSV translation)<br>
<br>
Mark 1:38<br>
exelelytha (I have come out)<br>
qam (I came)<br>
I came out (RSV translation)<br>
<br>
John 14:9 is interesting:<br>
<br>
tosouton chronon meth hymon eimi kai ouk egnokas me (so long I am with you <br>
and you have not got to know me)<br>
swalaud melis mith izwis was jah ni ufkuntheis mik (the Gothic uses two <br>
preterites)<br>
"Have I been with you so long, and yet you do not know me?" (RSV <br>
translation)<br>
<br>
In conditional sentences "would have done" something is expressed by a <br>
preterite subjunctive.<br>
<br>
Wulfila's Gothic is often a very literal translation from the Greek, but in <br>
his treatment of tenses it looks as if he has regard above all for Gothic <br>
usage.<br>
<br>
Now, to come to the suggested use of perfect participles with "haban" and <br>
"wisan". So far as I know or can recall there are no examples of active <br>
perfects so expressed in Gothic, but since other Germanic tongues have adopted <br>
the "have done" and "have/is gone" construction, which I am told originated <br>
with the Latin tongues, it seems a fair guess that if Gothic had survived <br>
it, too, would have acquired this mode of expression. To introduce it <br>
therefore would seem to be much like making new words to fill the gaps in the <br>
extant Gothic. The only caution I feel like expressing is that if you make a <br>
new perfect, it would be desirable to be quite clear what its purpose <br>
should be; for the perfect as used in English no doubt does a somewhat different <br>
job from its counterparts in other tongues. Indeed, there even seem to be <br>
differences between British and American use of the perfect.<br>
<br>
Gerry T.<br>
<br>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]<br>
<br>
</p>
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