<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">
<html>
<head>
</head>
<body style="background-color: #fff;">
<span style="display:none"> </span>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStartT|**|-~-->
<div id="ygrp-mlmsg" style="position:relative;">
<div id="ygrp-msg" style="z-index: 1;">
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEndT|**|-~-->
<div id="ygrp-text" >
<p><div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:12pt;"><div><span>A few more comments:</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size: 16px;font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;background-color: transparent;font-style: normal;"><span><br></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size: 16px;font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;background-color: transparent;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-style: normal;">1) With regard to the neologism </span><i>gutisk-:</i> it is true that names of languages in Modern German and Dutch are neuter, but in the Scandinavian languages they are feminine or at least non-neuter: e.g. Icelandic <i>D</i><i>anska</i> 'Danish', Swedish <i>Svenska</i> 'Swedish". This
brings up a further point, namely, that it is generally preferable in the comparative method to use comparanda closest in kinship and time to the target language. What Modern German and Modern Dutch suggest is less important that what Old High German, Old Saxon, Old English, Old Norse, and the language of the earliest runic inscriptions reveal, in the case of reconstructing fourth-century Gothic. That said, it so happens that the earliest West Germanic languages, like their modern counterparts, make neuter the names of languages suffixed with the reflexes of <i>-isk-</i>; in fact, in Old English, <i>englisc</i> is not only neuter but invariable (thus <i>on englisc</i> 'in English' but <i>on engliscgereorde</i> 'in the English language', the former lacking the dative ending <i>-e</i>). Old Norse, however, shows the feminine. The problem remains that Gothic is considered an East Germanic language, and it is impossible to know whether in
this case it followed the practice extant for West Germanic or North Germanic, thus, whether a Gothic language-name should be neuter or feminine. Thus, it is by no means certain at all that a name of language in Gothic must be neuter rather than feminine.</div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size: 16px;font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;background-color: transparent;font-style: italic;"><br></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size: 16px;font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;background-color: transparent;">Moreover, highly moot is the very idea that the usual name for the language spoken by the Goths was based on the root <i>Gut-</i>. It should be borne in mind that the end of late Proto-Germanic is usually assumed to be around the beginning of the first millennium AD. The first couple of centuries of the first millennium AD
must surely have been characterized by merely rather minor dialectal differences, and it seems most unlikely that the Marcomanni, for example, thought of themselves as speaking 'Marcomannian', or the Quadi 'Quadian' and likewise for many other Germanic tribal groups, such as the Goths, who in the fourth century likely did not number more than a third of a million people, a number suggested by Magomedov (<i>Chernyakhovskaya kul'tura, problema etnosa</i> 2001), based on the archaeological data. Indeed, the reflexes of <i>*theudisk-</i> were used by speakers of Old Saxon, Old High German, and Middle Dutch to refer to their languages. So too West-Saxons, Anglians, and Northumbrians of Anglo-Saxon England spoke <i>englisc</i>, a name that is cognate only with the name of the Angles. And of course today, Canadians do not speak 'Canadian', nor do Belgians speak 'Belgian'. The term 'Gothic' as the name of the language of the Goths is essentially
Graeco-Latin usage, reinforced by latterday linguists in their need for a suitable term; what the Goths called their own language is unknown. One could argue that <i>t</i><i>hiudisk-</i> would be as likely a candidate as *<i>gutisk-.</i> At least <i>thiudisk-</i> is extant, albeit once in the adverbial form <i>thiudisko</i> meaning 'in the manner of the Gentiles', which is a literal rendering of Greek <i>ethnicos</i>, but outside of the New Testament, Greek <i>ethnos</i> means simply 'people, nation' (even the Old English Biblical translator similarly used the cognate <i>theod</i> to render 'Gentiles', but elsewhere the noun means simply 'people, nation').</div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size: 16px;font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;background-color: transparent;font-style: italic;"><br></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size: 16px;font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;background-color: transparent;">If the intention is to teach real fourth-century Gothic, rather than some kind of 'play-Gothic', then neologisms should be avoided at all cost, and reconstructions resorted to only when one can reconstruct with a fair degree of certainty (and this demands a solid background in early Germanic historical linguistics). This is why I suggested <i>*Gutrazda</i>, given that both elements are extant and the compound has a direct parallel in <i>Gutthiuda</i>. Alternatively, <i>*Gut(an)e razda</i> 'language of the Goths' would partly sidestep the issue, although it is unknown to what nominal class <i>Gut-</i> belonged.</div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size: 16px;font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;background-color: transparent;font-style: italic;"><br></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size: 16px;font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;background-color: transparent;">The example of Modern Hebrew has be alluded to a number of times recently in the postings, but this example is irrelevant. To my knowledge, Modern Hebrew is not an attempt to reconstruct the language as it existed centuries ago; rather, it is an instance of a dead language being reused and refashioned to meet modern nationalistic needs. This is not the same as linguistic reconstruction. Naive indeed is the view that one can go shopping in a variety of Germanic and non-Germanic languages for Gothic "loans" or imagined cognates and not end up with a dabbler's mishmash.</div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size: 16px;font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;background-color: transparent;"><br></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size: 16px;font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;background-color: transparent;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-style: normal;">If you are bold enough to attempt comparative reconstruction, then I would suggest you read the first chapter of Benjamin Fortson's </span><i>Indo-European Language and Culture, An Introduction</i> and the first couple of chapters of Oswald Szemerenyi's <i>Introduction to Indo-European Linguistics</i>. These will provide a basic understanding of what is involved.</div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size: 16px;font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;background-color: transparent;"><br></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size: 16px;font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;background-color: transparent;">2) With regard to <i>yes-no</i> questions: it is NOT true that every yes-no question must be accompanied by the particle <i>-u</i>. Consider, for example,</div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size: 16px;font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;background-color: transparent;font-style: italic;"><br></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size: 16px;font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;background-color: transparent;"><i>Galaubeis thata?</i> (John11:26) 'Do you believe this?'</div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size: 16px;font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;background-color: transparent;"><i>gasaihwis tho kwinon?</i> (Luke 7:44) 'Do you see this woman?'</div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size: 16px;font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue',
Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;background-color: transparent;font-style: italic;"><br></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size: 16px;font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;background-color: transparent;">A careful examination of the instances of <i>-u</i> show that it is in fact modal, expressing such attitudes as doubt, hostile curiosity, amazement, exasperation, dismissiveness, or a rhetorical question.</div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size: 16px;font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;background-color: transparent;font-style: italic;"><br></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size: 16px;font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;background-color: transparent;">3) Note that <i>anakunnan</i> is a class 3 weak verb, thus 'you read' is
<i>anakunnais</i> not **<i>anakunnis</i>.</div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size: 16px;font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;background-color: transparent;font-style: italic;"><br></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size: 16px;font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;background-color: transparent;font-style: italic;"><br></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size: 16px;font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;background-color: transparent;font-style: italic;">Edmund</div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size: 16px;font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;background-color: transparent;font-style: italic;"><br></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size: 16px;font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica
Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;background-color: transparent;font-style: italic;"><br></div> <div class="qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div class="yahoo_quoted"> <div style="font-size: 12pt;font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;"> <div style="font-size: 12pt;font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> On Friday, May 30, 2014 1:47:24 AM, "Robert Cloutier lingvojn@gmail.com [gothic-l]" <gothic-l@yahoogroups.com> wrote:<br> </font> </div> <br><br> <div class="y_msg_container"><div id="yiv7015170238"><div>
<span> </span>
<div id="yiv7015170238ygrp-mlmsg">
<div id="yiv7015170238ygrp-msg">
<div id="yiv7015170238ygrp-text">
<div dir="ltr">A few additional comments/suggestions:<div><br clear="none"></div><div>pg. 3. <i>ni</i> 'not' should come before the verb it negates and not after. <span style="font-size: 12pt;font-family: ArialMT;">Ik mag ni rodjan Gutisks --> Ik ni mag rodjan Gutisks.</span></div>
<div><br clear="none"></div><div>pg. 3. The particle <i>-u</i> should be attached to the first word of a yes/no question, so <span style="font-size: 12pt;font-family: ArialMT;"><i>Magt þu rodjan Gutisks? </i></span>should be <i style="font-size: 16px;font-family: ArialMT;">Magt-u rodjan Gutisks? </i>If the first word starts with a particle, then the <i>-u</i> should be placed between the particle and the verb, so <span style="font-size: 12pt;font-family: ArialMT;">ana-kunnis þu ufta bokos? </span>should be <span style="font-size: 12pt;font-family: ArialMT;">anau-kunnis ufta bokos?</span></div>
<div><br clear="none"></div><div>I think it is all right to use <i>Gutisks</i> to refer to the language--it is common in the Germanic languages to use an adjective as the name of a language. Moreover, I disagree that <i>Gutisks </i>should be in the feminine to refer to the language; it should be neuter. If you look at Modern Dutch or German, the neuter is used to refer to the language even though the word for 'language' is common and feminine gender, respectively. So, for example, <i><b>het</b> Nederlands</i> (neuter gender) versus <i><b>de</b> Nederlandse taal </i>(common gender).<br clear="none">
</div>
<div><br clear="none"></div><div>pg 5. <i>haita</i> should be <i>haitada</i>. Contrary to popular belief, <i>haitan</i> in Gothic never means "to be called" unless explicitly marked for passive voice, unlike the modern Germanic languages.</div>
<div><br clear="none"></div><div>pg 7. Verbs do not have <i>declensions</i> or <i>declinations </i>but <i>conjugations</i>. But given the context, I'm not sure either is the correct term you mean to use. Perhaps <i>inflection</i>? But it is not really clear what it is you are trying to say--could you elaborate?</div>
<div><br clear="none"></div><div>Best regards,</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Robert</div><div><br clear="none"></div></div><div class="yiv7015170238yqt4905921391" id="yiv7015170238yqt05685"><div class="yiv7015170238gmail_extra"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><div class="yiv7015170238gmail_quote">On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 4:49 AM, Edmund Fairfax <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:edmundfairfax@yahoo.ca" target="_blank" href="mailto:edmundfairfax@yahoo.ca">edmundfairfax@yahoo.ca</a> [gothic-l] <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:gothic-l@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:gothic-l@yahoogroups.com">gothic-l@yahoogroups.com</a>></span> wrote:<br clear="none">
<blockquote class="yiv7015170238gmail_quote" style="border-left:1px #ccc solid;">
<u></u>
<div style="background-color:#fff;">
<span> </span>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);font-size: 12pt;font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;"><div><span>You invited corrections and comments, so here are some:</span></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size: 16px;background-color: transparent;font-style: normal;font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;"><span><br clear="none"></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size: 16px;background-color: transparent;font-style: normal;font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;">
<span>Lesson 1:</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size: 16px;background-color: transparent;font-style: normal;font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;">
<span><br clear="none"></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size: 16px;background-color: transparent;font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;"><span style="font-style:normal;">1) I think it would be preferable to use Gothic names -- Why not use </span><i>Wulfila</i> or *<i>Airmanareiks</i> or the like<i>? O</i><span style="font-style:normal;">r at least Gothic versions of the names chosen: Roderick, for example, would be </span><i>*Hrothareiks.</i></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size: 16px;background-color: transparent;font-style: italic;font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;"><i><br clear="none"></i></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size: 16px;background-color: transparent;font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;">
2) Gothic is a pro-drop language; that is, subject pronouns are not normally
expressed, unless the subject is contrastive or emphatic. Thus, <i>magt rodjan?</i> is then to be expected rather than <i>magt thu rodjan?</i></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size: 16px;background-color: transparent;font-style: italic;font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;">
<i><br clear="none"></i></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size: 16px;background-color: transparent;font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;"><span>3) I have misgivings about using the neologism *<i>gutisks</i> to render '(the) Gothic (language)'. Given <i>gutthiuda</i> '(the) Gothic people', I would suggest using <i>*gutrazda</i> (cf. Old English <i>engliscgereord</i> '(the) English (language)'). If you do use <i>*gutisk-</i>, then it should likely be feminine (assuming <i>razda</i> 'language' is understood). As it
stands, **<i>Magt thu rodjan gutisks?</i> is ungrammatical: the object ('Gothic') cannot be in the nominative case here, as <i>rodjan</i> requires an accusative object: either <i>gutiska</i> (fem. acc.) or <i>gutiskana</i> (masc. acc.), cf. <i>tho waurda thoei ik rodida izwis</i> (John6,64) 'the words (acc.) that I have spoken to you'.</span></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size: 16px;background-color: transparent;font-style: italic;font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;"><span><br clear="none"></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size: 16px;background-color: transparent;font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;">
4) <i>Wai</i> means 'woe, alas'</div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size: 16px;background-color: transparent;font-style: italic;font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;">
<br clear="none"></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size: 16px;background-color: transparent;font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;">Lesson 2:</div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size: 16px;background-color: transparent;font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;">
<br clear="none"></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size: 16px;background-color: transparent;font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;"><span style="font-style:normal;">1) 'I want to know' is not **</span><i>ik mag witan</i> but rather <i>wiljau witan.</i></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size: 16px;background-color: transparent;font-style: italic;font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;"><br clear="none"></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size: 16px;background-color: transparent;font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;">
2) The preposition <i>du</i> normally takes the dative; thus **<i>du gard is</i> should be <i>du garda is</i> or <i>du is garda. </i>I have doubts about the construction <i>sa wigs du garda is</i> and will see if I can find something better.</div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size: 16px;background-color: transparent;font-style: italic;font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;"><br clear="none"></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size: 16px;background-color: transparent;font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;">
3) **<i>thu magt fraihnan imma</i> is ungrammatical: <i>fraihnan</i> takes an accusative object; cf. <i>frah ina sa
kindins</i> 'the governor asked him'. The verb <i>magan</i> normally denotes ability; the use of the verb here to indicate a suggestion is surely an anglicism. I suggest you use simply <i>fraihnan</i> in the subjunctive<i>.</i></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size: 16px;background-color: transparent;font-style: italic;font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;"><br clear="none"></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size: 16px;background-color: transparent;font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;">
3) <i>Goths</i> must refer to a masculine noun. Based on the construction evident in <i>batizo ist thus ei frakwistnai aina lithiwe theinaize...</i> ('it is better for you that one of your limbs perish'), the neuter form of <i>goths</i> would appear to be necessary here.</div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size: 16px;background-color: transparent;font-style: italic;font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;"><br clear="none"></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size: 16px;background-color: transparent;font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;">
4) 'I thank you' should be <i>awiliudo thus</i> cf. <i>Guth, awiliudo thus unte ni im swaswe thai antharai mans</i> "God, I thank thee that I am not like the others'.</div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size: 16px;background-color: transparent;font-style: italic;font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;">
<br clear="none"></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size: 16px;background-color: transparent;font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;"> I have not looked beyond this to see what
errors may lie ahead.</div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size: 16px;background-color: transparent;font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;"><br clear="none"></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size: 16px;background-color: transparent;font-style: normal;font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;">
I fear that you have introduced too many grammatical points into these exchanges (the three cases nom., acc., and dat.), verbs from a variety of classes (the pret. pres. no less), etc., which are likely to overwhelm the learner. I understand you wish to have a conversational thrust, but introducing such a variety of grammatical concepts in less than eight lines is not user-friendly.</div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size: 16px;background-color: transparent;font-style: normal;font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;"><br clear="none"></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size: 16px;background-color: transparent;font-style: normal;font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;">
Edmund</div><div class="yiv7015170238class"> <div><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><div> <div style="font-size: 12pt;font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;"> <div style="font-size: 12pt;font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;">
<div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial"> On Wednesday, May 28, 2014 7:10:48 PM, "<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:roellingua@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:roellingua@gmail.com">roellingua@gmail.com</a> [gothic-l]" <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:gothic-l@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:gothic-l@yahoogroups.com">gothic-l@yahoogroups.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">
</font> </div> <br clear="none"><br clear="none"> <div><div><div>
<span> </span>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>I thought that it might be an idea to already share this with you guys in order to get some reviews.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>The texts aren't perfect and I 'm not sure about the word order, the grammar might also contain certain mistakes, but I would be happy if people point them out so that I can correct them.</div>
<div><br clear="none"></div><div>I assume that most people here are familiar with the method of Assimil? I have learned several languages with the books of Assimil because their method simply is to use a lot of dialogs to get used to the way in which the languages is used. For the Gothic language, we only have all kinds of books to learn the grammar, new words etc. I thought that it might be a good idea to have an Assimil-like book for Gothic for the people which don't like to study too much things and just like to go straight to what you use it for: conversation </div>
<div><br clear="none"></div><div>At the
moment I have made 12 lessons.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>I have uploaded the current PDF and you can download it here: </div><div><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://roel.tengudev.com/Neo%20Gothic/download_course.php" style="word-spacing:normal;">http://roel.tengudev.com/Neo%20Gothic/download_course.php</a><br clear="none">
</div><div style="width:450px;"> <table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" style="width:450px;"><tbody><tr><td colspan="6" rowspan="1" style="min-height:1px;background-color:#e5e5e5;"> <div style="min-height:1px;background-color:#e5e5e5;">
</div> </td></tr><tr><td colspan="1" rowspan="2" style="width:1px;background-color:#e5e5e5;"> <div style="width:1px;background-color:#e5e5e5;"></div> </td><td colspan="2" rowspan="1" style="width:100%;vertical-align:middle;">
<div style="background-color:#ffffff;width:448px;"> <div style="padding:7px 20px 0px 14px;"> <span></span> <span></span> <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://roel.tengudev.com/Neo%20Gothic/download_course.php" style="text-decoration:none;color:#000000;"> <span style="margin:0;font-weight:normal;font-size:18px;max-height:43px;color:#000000;overflow:hidden;">http://roel.tengudev.com/Neo%20Gothic/download_course.php</span> </a> <div style="font-size:13px;color:#999999;max-height:81px;overflow:hidden;">
The download link to the Gothic Learning Book PDF: Conversational course for Gothic. </div> </div> </div> </td><td colspan="1" rowspan="2" style="width:1px;background-color:#e5e5e5;"> <div style="width:1px;background-color:#e5e5e5;">
</div> </td></tr><tr><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="width:100%;vertical-align:middle;"> <div style="font-size:0pt;padding:3px 20px 9px 14px;"> <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://roel.tengudev.com/Neo%20Gothic/download_course.php" style="color:black;text-decoration:none;"> <span style="max-width:348px;min-width:288px;overflow:hidden;max-height:13px;"> <span style="vertical-align:middle;font-size:9px;color:#999999;"> View on <span style="font-weight:bold;">roel.tengudev.com</span> </span> </span> </a> </div>
</td><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="vertical-align:middle;width:100px;"> <div style="padding:6px 20px 12px 0px;max-width:100px;min-width:80px;overflow:hidden;text-align:right;max-height:13px;font-size:0pt;"> <span style="vertical-align:middle;font-size:9px;color:#999999;"> Preview by Yahoo </span> </div>
</td></tr><tr><td colspan="6" rowspan="1" style="min-height:1px;background-color:#e5e5e5;"> <div style="min-height:1px;background-color:#e5e5e5;"></div> </td></tr></tbody></table> </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>This is the link to the document if you want to see updates, it looks different from the PDF though and uglier:</div>
<div><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/12rtTAxpUcOJrgOMBXAOFnFvH_ElTuL-EBS69kEp6was/pub">https://docs.google.com/document/d/12rtTAxpUcOJrgOMBXAOFnFvH_ElTuL-EBS69kEp6was/pub</a><br clear="none">
</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>What I still need are people who can help with neologisms, there isn't even an official organization for it yet. I also don't know how we can set that up.</div>
<div><br clear="none"></div><div>If it is good enough we could try to go to Assimil and ask if they see something in this.</div>
</div>
<div style="color:#fff;min-height:0;"></div></div>
</div></div><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div> </div> </div> </div> </div></div></div>
</div>
<div style="color:#fff;min-height:0;"></div>
</div>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br clear="none"></div></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv7015170238yqt4905921391" id="yiv7015170238yqt82628"><div style="color:#fff;min-height:0;"></div></div>
</div><div class="yiv7015170238yqt4905921391" id="yiv7015170238yqt22007"></div></div><br><br></div> </div> </div> </div> </div></div></div></p>
</div>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~-->
<div style="color: #fff; height: 0;">__._,_.___</div>
<div style="clear:both"> </div>
<div id="fromDMARC" style="margin-top: 10px;">
<hr style="height:2px ; border-width:0; color:#E3E3E3; background-color:#E3E3E3;">
Posted by: Edmund Fairfax <edmundfairfax@yahoo.ca> <hr style="height:2px ; border-width:0; color:#E3E3E3; background-color:#E3E3E3;">
</div>
<div style="clear:both"> </div>
<table cellspacing=4px style="margin-top: 10px; margin-bottom: 10px; color: #2D50FD;">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="font-size: 12px; font-family: arial; font-weight: bold; padding: 7px 5px 5px;" >
<a style="text-decoration: none; color: #2D50FD" href="https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/gothic-l/conversations/messages/11262;_ylc=X3oDMTJxbnByamVhBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzExNjQzNjI3BG1zZ0lkAzExMjYyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTQwMTQ4OTE3OQ--?act=reply&messageNum=11262">Reply via web post</a>
</td>
<td>•</td>
<td style="font-size: 12px; font-family: arial; padding: 7px 5px 5px;" >
<a href="mailto:edmundfairfax@yahoo.ca?subject=Re%3A%20%5Bgothic-l%5D%20Assimil-like%20course%20to%20learn%20modern%20Gothic%20%28not%20finished%20yet%29" style="text-decoration: none; color: #2D50FD;">
Reply to sender </a>
</td>
<td>•</td>
<td style="font-size: 12px; font-family: arial; padding: 7px 5px 5px;">
<a href="mailto:gothic-l@yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20%5Bgothic-l%5D%20Assimil-like%20course%20to%20learn%20modern%20Gothic%20%28not%20finished%20yet%29" style="text-decoration: none; color: #2D50FD">
Reply to group </a>
</td>
<td>•</td>
<td style="font-size: 12px; font-family: arial; padding: 7px 5px 5px;" >
<a href="https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/gothic-l/conversations/newtopic;_ylc=X3oDMTJlaGZpZGxkBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzExNjQzNjI3BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTQwMTQ4OTE3OQ--" style="text-decoration: none; color: #2D50FD">Start a New Topic</a>
</td>
<td>•</td>
<td style="font-size: 12px; font-family: arial; padding: 7px 5px 5px;color: #2D50FD;" >
<a href="https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/gothic-l/conversations/topics/11253;_ylc=X3oDMTM2b2ZoNW4xBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzExNjQzNjI3BG1zZ0lkAzExMjYyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTQwMTQ4OTE3OQR0cGNJZAMxMTI1Mw--" style="text-decoration: none; color: #2D50FD;">Messages in this topic</a>
(7)
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<!------- Start Nav Bar ------>
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
<div id="ygrp-grfd" style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px; padding: 15px 0;">
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
You are a member of the Gothic-L list. To unsubscribe, send a blank email to <gothic-l-unsubscribe@egroups.com>.
<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
</div>
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<div id="ygrp-vital" style="background-color: #f2f2f2; font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10px; margin-bottom: 10px; padding: 10px;">
<span id="vithd" style="font-weight: bold; color: #333; text-transform: uppercase; "><a href="https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/gothic-l/info;_ylc=X3oDMTJldHZxY2lqBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzExNjQzNjI3BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTQwMTQ4OTE3OQ--" style="text-decoration: none;">Visit Your Group</a></span>
<ul style="list-style-type: none; margin: 0; padding: 0; display: inline;">
</ul>
</div>
<div id="ft" style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 11px; margin-top: 5px; padding: 0 2px 0 0; clear: both;">
<a href="https://groups.yahoo.com/neo;_ylc=X3oDMTJkbHZ1ZzVrBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzExNjQzNjI3BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxNDAxNDg5MTc5" style="float: left;"><img src="http://l.yimg.com/ru/static/images/yg/img/email/new_logo/logo-groups-137x15.png" height="15" width="137" alt="Yahoo! Groups" style="border: 0;"/></a>
<div style="color: #747575; float: right;"> • <a href="https://info.yahoo.com/privacy/us/yahoo/groups/details.html" style="text-decoration: none;">Privacy</a> • <a href="mailto:gothic-l-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe" style="text-decoration: none;">Unsubscribe</a> • <a href="https://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/terms/" style="text-decoration: none;">Terms of Use</a> </div>
</div>
<br>
<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
</div> <!-- ygrp-msg -->
<!-- Sponsor -->
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<div id="ygrp-sponsor" style="width:160px; float:right; clear:none; margin:0 0 25px 0; background: #fff;">
<!-- Start Recommendations -->
<div id="ygrp-reco">
</div>
<!-- End Recommendations -->
</div> <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
<div style="clear:both; color: #FFF; font-size:1px;">.</div>
</div>
<img src="http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=1020598/grpspId=1711643627/msgId=11262/stime=1401489179" width="1" height="1"> <br>
<img src="http://y.analytics.yahoo.com/fpc.pl?ywarid=515FB27823A7407E&a=10001310322279&js=no&resp=img" width="1" height="1">
<div style="color: #fff; height: 0;">__,_._,___</div>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~-->
</body>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~-->
<head>
<style type="text/css">
<!--
#ygrp-mkp {
border: 1px solid #d8d8d8;
font-family: Arial;
margin: 10px 0;
padding: 0 10px;
}
#ygrp-mkp hr {
border: 1px solid #d8d8d8;
}
#ygrp-mkp #hd {
color: #628c2a;
font-size: 85%;
font-weight: 700;
line-height: 122%;
margin: 10px 0;
}
#ygrp-mkp #ads {
margin-bottom: 10px;
}
#ygrp-mkp .ad {
padding: 0 0;
}
#ygrp-mkp .ad p {
margin: 0;
}
#ygrp-mkp .ad a {
color: #0000ff;
text-decoration: none;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc {
font-family: Arial;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc #hd {
margin: 10px 0px;
font-weight: 700;
font-size: 78%;
line-height: 122%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc .ad {
margin-bottom: 10px;
padding: 0 0;
}
#actions {
font-family: Verdana;
font-size: 11px;
padding: 10px 0;
}
#activity {
background-color: #e0ecee;
float: left;
font-family: Verdana;
font-size: 10px;
padding: 10px;
}
#activity span {
font-weight: 700;
}
#activity span:first-child {
text-transform: uppercase;
}
#activity span a {
color: #5085b6;
text-decoration: none;
}
#activity span span {
color: #ff7900;
}
#activity span .underline {
text-decoration: underline;
}
.attach {
clear: both;
display: table;
font-family: Arial;
font-size: 12px;
padding: 10px 0;
width: 400px;
}
.attach div a {
text-decoration: none;
}
.attach img {
border: none;
padding-right: 5px;
}
.attach label {
display: block;
margin-bottom: 5px;
}
.attach label a {
text-decoration: none;
}
blockquote {
margin: 0 0 0 4px;
}
.bold {
font-family: Arial;
font-size: 13px;
font-weight: 700;
}
.bold a {
text-decoration: none;
}
dd.last p a {
font-family: Verdana;
font-weight: 700;
}
dd.last p span {
margin-right: 10px;
font-family: Verdana;
font-weight: 700;
}
dd.last p span.yshortcuts {
margin-right: 0;
}
div.attach-table div div a {
text-decoration: none;
}
div.attach-table {
width: 400px;
}
div.file-title a, div.file-title a:active, div.file-title a:hover, div.file-title a:visited {
text-decoration: none;
}
div.photo-title a, div.photo-title a:active, div.photo-title a:hover, div.photo-title a:visited {
text-decoration: none;
}
div#ygrp-mlmsg #ygrp-msg p a span.yshortcuts {
font-family: Verdana;
font-size: 10px;
font-weight: normal;
}
.green {
color: #628c2a;
}
.MsoNormal {
margin: 0 0 0 0;
}
o {
font-size: 0;
}
#photos div {
float: left;
width: 72px;
}
#photos div div {
border: 1px solid #666666;
height: 62px;
overflow: hidden;
width: 62px;
}
#photos div label {
color: #666666;
font-size: 10px;
overflow: hidden;
text-align: center;
white-space: nowrap;
width: 64px;
}
#reco-category {
font-size: 77%;
}
#reco-desc {
font-size: 77%;
}
.replbq {
margin: 4px;
}
#ygrp-actbar div a:first-child {
/* border-right: 0px solid #000;*/
margin-right: 2px;
padding-right: 5px;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg {
font-size: 13px;
font-family: Arial, helvetica,clean, sans-serif;
*font-size: small;
*font: x-small;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg table {
font-size: inherit;
font: 100%;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {
font: 99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {
font:115% monospace;
*font-size:100%;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg * {
line-height: 1.22em;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg #logo {
padding-bottom: 10px;
}
#ygrp-msg p a {
font-family: Verdana;
}
#ygrp-msg p#attach-count span {
color: #1E66AE;
font-weight: 700;
}
#ygrp-reco #reco-head {
color: #ff7900;
font-weight: 700;
}
#ygrp-reco {
margin-bottom: 20px;
padding: 0px;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov li a {
font-size: 130%;
text-decoration: none;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov li {
font-size: 77%;
list-style-type: square;
padding: 6px 0;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov ul {
margin: 0;
padding: 0 0 0 8px;
}
#ygrp-text {
font-family: Georgia;
}
#ygrp-text p {
margin: 0 0 1em 0;
}
#ygrp-text tt {
font-size: 120%;
}
#ygrp-vital ul li:last-child {
border-right: none !important;
}
-->
</style>
</head>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~-->
</html>
<!-- end group email -->