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<p><div dir="ltr">I already found the supposed good combination: Hroþananþs (hroþs = fame + nanþs = brave, while "nand" changed to "land" later, therefore hroþananþs doesn't look at all like my name Roel. I 'm jealous at Edmund that his name is still recognizable :p xD )</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2015-01-28 23:48 GMT+01:00 Dicentis a <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:roellingua@gmail.com" target="_blank">roellingua@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left:1px #ccc solid;"><div dir="ltr">I have a question by the way, my first name is Roel and it's an abbreviation of Roeland. What would it be in Gothic? It's a combination of fame + bravery, but I can't find good words in Gothic which still look like "roe" and "land".</div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2015-01-28 23:44 GMT+01:00 Dicentis a <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:roellingua@gmail.com" target="_blank">roellingua@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left:1px #ccc solid;"><div dir="ltr">Hails Audamunds,<div><br></div><div>I have looked up his book at the website of the most extensive library which is close to me and it doesn't mention this author. So I don't really see a way to get my hands on this book for only looking up this information and I don't intend to spend (a lot of) money to only know 1 aspect of Gothic grammar, if I would buy a book for a lot of aspects of the Gothic grammar it would be a different story and I would spend money on it.</div><div><br></div><div>Golja þuk,</div><div><br></div><div>Roel</div></div><div><div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2015-01-28 23:09 GMT+01:00 <a href="mailto:edmundfairfax@yahoo.ca" target="_blank">edmundfairfax@yahoo.ca</a> [gothic-l] <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:gothic-l@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank">gothic-l@yahoogroups.com</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left:1px #ccc solid;">
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<p>Dear Roel,</p><div><br></div><div>The brief treatment of adverbs at the aforementioned site is incomplete and misleading. The best detailed scholarly discussion of Gothic adverb-formation is Frank Heidermanns' article "Der Ursprung der gotischen Adverbien auf -ba" (1996, >Historische Sprachforschung<, pp. 257-275), which I would strongly urge you to consult.</div><div><br></div><div>Note that it is not true that -ba forms only adverbs of manner: e.g. abraba 'greatly, very' is an adverb of intensity, not of manner.</div><div><br></div><div>Nor is it true that -o does not form adverbs of manner: e.g. e.g. sprauto 'quickly'.</div><div><br></div><div>As the Heidermanns article shows, the choice between -ba and -o is determined not by semantic considerations but rather by morphological factors; in other words, it is form not meaning which is the decisive factor here.</div><div><br></div><div>Edmund</div><div><br><br>---In <a href="mailto:Gothic-L@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank">Gothic-L@yahoogroups.com</a>, <roellingua@...> wrote :<br><br><div><span><div dir="ltr">Ok, I have found a different answer in the course of Todd B. Krause and Jonathan Slocum: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.utexas.edu/cola/centers/lrc/eieol/gotol-5-X.html" target="_blank">http://www.utexas.edu/cola/centers/lrc/eieol/gotol-5-X.html</a><br><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Suffix -ba. This suffix generally derives adverbs of manner from associated adjectives<br></div><div><br></div><div>Suffix -ō. This suffix frequently derives adverbs from adjectives.<br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>This basically means that, if an adjective explain how something is done, you use -ba and otherwise you can use -o.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div></span><div><div><div><br><div>2015-01-27 23:09 GMT+01:00 <a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:edmundfairfax@..." target="_blank">edmundfairfax@...</a> [gothic-l] <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:gothic-l@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank">gothic-l@yahoogroups.com</a>></span>:<br><blockquote><span><blockquote style="border-left:1px #ccc solid;"><u></u><div style="background-color:#fff;">
<span> </span><div><div><div><p>Dear Roel,</p><div><br></div><div>As I stated in the original post, -o appears to be the usual adverbial ending for adjective stems ending in -isk- and -eig-, cf. 'thiudisko' (from *'thiudisks'), 'witodeigo' (from *'witotheigs').</div><div><br></div><div>Edmund</div><div><div><br><br>---In <a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:Gothic-L@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank">Gothic-L@yahoogroups.com</a>, <roellingua@...> wrote :<br><br><div><span><div dir="ltr">Awiliudo þus Audamunda, (Edmund = auds + munda)<div><br></div><div>Skeireins þeina waila filu ist, satja þo her undaro, haba fraihna:</div><div><br></div><div>(your explaination is very good, I 'll put it under here, I have a question:)</div><div><br></div><div>Magum in waurdam miþ -isk- aiþþau -eig- nauh -o brukjan, þau þata unraihta brukein Gutiskons razdos waurþi?</div><div><br></div><div>(Can we use -o in words with -isk- or -eig-, or would that be incorrect use of the Gothic language?)</div><div><div><br></div><div> <span style="color:rgb(63,63,63);font-size:13px;">In the case of Gothic, the adverbial suffix -o appears to have been non-productive specifically with simplex adjectives (= non-derived ones). In other words, it had become lexicalized in such cases, and the learner simply had to memorize which adjectives took this ending. The suffix -ba, on the other hand, appears to have been productive and was used everywhere except where there was already a lexicalized form with -o.</span><div style="margin:0px;padding:0px;color:rgb(63,63,63);font-size:13px;"><br></div><div style="margin:0px;padding:0px;color:rgb(63,63,63);font-size:13px;">In certain cases, however, -o is regular:</div><div style="margin:0px;padding:0px;color:rgb(63,63,63);font-size:13px;"><br></div><div style="margin:0px;padding:0px;color:rgb(63,63,63);font-size:13px;">1) in the suffix -leiko: e.g. 'aljaleiko, antharleiko, lathaleiko.' With most of these, there is NO corresponding adjective in '-leiks.'</div><div style="margin:0px;padding:0px;color:rgb(63,63,63);font-size:13px;"><br></div><div style="margin:0px;padding:0px;color:rgb(63,63,63);font-size:13px;">2) adjectives suffixed with -isk- and -eig-: e.g. 'thiudisko, witodeigo.'</div><div style="margin:0px;padding:0px;color:rgb(63,63,63);font-size:13px;"><br></div><div style="margin:0px;padding:0px;color:rgb(63,63,63);font-size:13px;">In other words, -o was regularly only in conjunction with other derivational suffixes.</div><div style="margin:0px;padding:0px;color:rgb(63,63,63);font-size:13px;"><br></div><div style="margin:0px;padding:0px;color:rgb(63,63,63);font-size:13px;"><br></div><div style="margin:0px;padding:0px;color:rgb(63,63,63);font-size:13px;">As to the vowel before the suffix -ba, that is determined by the class to which the adjective belongs. The majority of Gothic adjectives belong to the a-stem class, and this 'a' will appear before -ba, thus:</div><div style="margin:0px;padding:0px;color:rgb(63,63,63);font-size:13px;"><br></div><div style="margin:0px;padding:0px;color:rgb(63,63,63);font-size:13px;">abrs (a-stem) - abraba</div><div style="margin:0px;padding:0px;color:rgb(63,63,63);font-size:13px;">ainfalths (a-stem) - ainfalthaba</div><div style="margin:0px;padding:0px;color:rgb(63,63,63);font-size:13px;"><br></div><div style="margin:0px;padding:0px;color:rgb(63,63,63);font-size:13px;">but:</div><div style="margin:0px;padding:0px;color:rgb(63,63,63);font-size:13px;"><br></div><div style="margin:0px;padding:0px;color:rgb(63,63,63);font-size:13px;">hardus (u-stem) - harduba (although 'hardaba' is also extant)</div><div style="margin:0px;padding:0px;color:rgb(63,63,63);font-size:13px;"><br></div><div style="margin:0px;padding:0px;color:rgb(63,63,63);font-size:13px;">For more details on the formation of adverbs, see Heidermanns' article "Der Ursprung der gotischen Adverbien auf -ba" (>Historische Sprachforschung< 1996, vol. 109, pp. 257-275).</div></div></div></div></span><span><div><br><div>2015-01-27 2:59 GMT+01:00 <a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:edmundfairfax@..." target="_blank">edmundfairfax@...</a> [gothic-l] <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:gothic-l@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank">gothic-l@yahoogroups.com</a>></span>:<br><blockquote><span><blockquote style="border-left:1px #ccc solid;"><u></u><div style="background-color:#fff;">
<span> </span><div><div><div><p><br></p><div><br></div><div>You may wish to look over my post of 4 Dec. 2014, which explains the formation of adverbs.</div><div><br></div><div>Edmund</div><p></p></div><div style="color:#fff;min-height:0;"></div></div></div></div></blockquote></span></blockquote></div><br></div></span></div></div></div><p></p></div><span><div style="color:#fff;min-height:0;"></div></span></div></div></div></blockquote></span></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></div></div><p></p>
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