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<p><div dir="ltr">Tore, can you please show me which Turkish features are present in Yiddish? As you are citing these books, you have of course read the relevant parts in those books, otherwise you wouldn't cite them, can you cite the parts in those books in which it is claimed that Yiddish has Turkish influences and the linguistic explanations?</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2015-02-15 17:04 GMT+01:00 Tore Gannholm <a href="mailto:tore@gannholm.org">tore@gannholm.org</a> [gothic-l] <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:gothic-l@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank">gothic-l@yahoogroups.com</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left:1px #ccc solid;">
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<p>No I said I understand the main opinion of the definition of Yiddish id that it is based on a Germanic language, in this case Gothic with mixtures of Turkish and Slavic languages.</p><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Tore</div><div><div class="h5"><div><br></div><div><br><div><blockquote type="cite"><div>On 15 Feb 2015, at 16:20, Dicentis a <a href="mailto:roellingua@gmail.com" target="_blank">roellingua@gmail.com</a> [gothic-l] <<a href="mailto:gothic-l@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank">gothic-l@yahoogroups.com</a>> wrote:</div><br><div><div style="font-size:13px;font-family:Arial,helvetica,clean,sans-serif;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;"><div><div style="font-family:Georgia;"><div style="margin:0px 0px 1em;"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Hi Tore,<div><br></div><div>A few citations of books is not proof of your claim, can you please cite parts out of these books which support your claim?</div><div><br></div><div>Also, I will make a comparison between some Yiddish basic vocabulary and Turkish vocabulary here, Torre please explain why these differences are here if your theory is correct:</div><div><br></div><div><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Lucida Sans',Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,'Bitstream Vera Sans',sans-serif;font-size:13px;">(די פֿראַגע(ס</span><em style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Lucida Sans',Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,'Bitstream Vera Sans',sans-serif;font-size:13px;"> di frage(s)</em><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Lucida Sans',Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,'Bitstream Vera Sans',sans-serif;font-size:13px;"> – question(s) Turkish for question is<span> </span><b>soru</b></span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Lucida Sans',Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,'Bitstream Vera Sans',sans-serif;font-size:13px;">(דאָס בוך (ביכער</span><em style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Lucida Sans',Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,'Bitstream Vera Sans',sans-serif;font-size:13px;"> dos bukh (bikher)</em><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Lucida Sans',Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,'Bitstream Vera Sans',sans-serif;font-size:13px;"> – book Turkish for book is a loan from Arabic<span> </span><b>kitap</b>, and the word for to write is<span> </span><b>yazmak</b>, doesn't look like bukh at all</span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Lucida Sans',Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,'Bitstream Vera Sans',sans-serif;font-size:13px;">(דער טיש(ן</span><em style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Lucida Sans',Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,'Bitstream Vera Sans',sans-serif;font-size:13px;"> der tish(n)</em><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Lucida Sans',Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,'Bitstream Vera Sans',sans-serif;font-size:13px;"> – table Turkish for table is<span> </span><b>tablo</b></span><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Lucida Sans',Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,'Bitstream Vera Sans',sans-serif;font-size:13px;"><br></span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Lucida Sans',Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,'Bitstream Vera Sans',sans-serif;font-size:13px;">(דער מענטש(ן</span><em style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Lucida Sans',Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,'Bitstream Vera Sans',sans-serif;font-size:13px;"> der mentsh(n)</em><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Lucida Sans',Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,'Bitstream Vera Sans',sans-serif;font-size:13px;"> – person Turkish loan from Arabic is<span> </span><b>insan</b>, another word is<span> </span><b>adam</b>, a native Turkish word is </span><font color="#333333" face="Lucida Sans, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, Bitstream Vera Sans, sans-serif"><b>kişi</b>, please explain why mentsh and kishi are similar</font><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Lucida Sans',Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,'Bitstream Vera Sans',sans-serif;font-size:13px;"><b><br></b></span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Lucida Sans',Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,'Bitstream Vera Sans',sans-serif;font-size:13px;">צום בײַשפּיל </span><em style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Lucida Sans',Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,'Bitstream Vera Sans',sans-serif;font-size:13px;"> tsum bayshpil</em><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Lucida Sans',Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,'Bitstream Vera Sans',sans-serif;font-size:13px;"> – for example looks like German zum Beispiel and not like Turkish<span> </span><b>mesele</b></span><font color="#333333" face="Lucida Sans, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, Bitstream Vera Sans, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Lucida Sans',Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,'Bitstream Vera Sans',sans-serif;font-size:13px;">?װאָס איז דאָס</span><em style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Lucida Sans',Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,'Bitstream Vera Sans',sans-serif;font-size:13px;"> vos iz dos?</em><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Lucida Sans',Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,'Bitstream Vera Sans',sans-serif;font-size:13px;"> – what is this? Turkish would be something like<span> </span><b>nedir?</b> German would be: Was ist das?</span><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Lucida Sans',Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,'Bitstream Vera Sans',sans-serif;font-size:13px;"><b><br></b></span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Lucida Sans',Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,'Bitstream Vera Sans',sans-serif;font-size:13px;">. . .דאָס איז</span><em style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Lucida Sans',Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,'Bitstream Vera Sans',sans-serif;font-size:13px;"> dos iz… </em><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Lucida Sans',Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,'Bitstream Vera Sans',sans-serif;font-size:13px;">– this is… Turkish would be: noun + -<b>dir</b>, German would be das ist...</span><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Lucida Sans',Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,'Bitstream Vera Sans',sans-serif;font-size:13px;"><br></span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Lucida Sans',Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,'Bitstream Vera Sans',sans-serif;font-size:13px;">(די שטול(ן</span><em style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Lucida Sans',Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,'Bitstream Vera Sans',sans-serif;font-size:13px;"> di shtul(n)</em><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Lucida Sans',Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,'Bitstream Vera Sans',sans-serif;font-size:13px;"> – chair Turkish is<span> </span><b>sandalye</b>, German is Stuhl</span><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Lucida Sans',Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,'Bitstream Vera Sans',sans-serif;font-size:13px;"><br></span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Lucida Sans',Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,'Bitstream Vera Sans',sans-serif;font-size:13px;">(דער מאַן (מענער </span><em style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Lucida Sans',Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,'Bitstream Vera Sans',sans-serif;font-size:13px;"> der man (mener)</em><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Lucida Sans',Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,'Bitstream Vera Sans',sans-serif;font-size:13px;"> – man Turkish is<span> </span><b>adam</b>, but this word looks like German and Dutch Mann/man and Dutch meneer and German Mein Herr</span><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Lucida Sans',Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,'Bitstream Vera Sans',sans-serif;font-size:13px;"><br></span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Lucida Sans',Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,'Bitstream Vera Sans',sans-serif;font-size:13px;">(די פֿרױ(ען</span><em style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Lucida Sans',Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,'Bitstream Vera Sans',sans-serif;font-size:13px;"> di froy(en)</em><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Lucida Sans',Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,'Bitstream Vera Sans',sans-serif;font-size:13px;"> – woman Turkish is<span> </span><b>bayan</b>, German is Frau.</span><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Lucida Sans',Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,'Bitstream Vera Sans',sans-serif;font-size:13px;"><br></span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Lucida Sans',Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,'Bitstream Vera Sans',sans-serif;font-size:13px;">(דאָס מײדל(עך</span><em style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Lucida Sans',Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,'Bitstream Vera Sans',sans-serif;font-size:13px;"> dos meydl(ekh)</em><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Lucida Sans',Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,'Bitstream Vera Sans',sans-serif;font-size:13px;"> – girl Turkish is </span><font color="#333333" face="Lucida Sans, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, Bitstream Vera Sans, sans-serif"><b>kız</b>, German is Mädchen</font><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Lucida Sans',Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,'Bitstream Vera Sans',sans-serif;font-size:13px;"><br></span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Lucida Sans',Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,'Bitstream Vera Sans',sans-serif;font-size:13px;">(דער קאָפּ (קעפּ</span><em style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Lucida Sans',Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,'Bitstream Vera Sans',sans-serif;font-size:13px;"> der kop (kep)</em><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Lucida Sans',Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,'Bitstream Vera Sans',sans-serif;font-size:13px;"> – head Turkish is </span><font color="#333333" face="Lucida Sans, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, Bitstream Vera Sans, sans-serif"><b>kafa</b><br></font></div><div><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Lucida Sans',Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,'Bitstream Vera Sans',sans-serif;font-size:13px;"><br></span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Lucida Sans',Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,'Bitstream Vera Sans',sans-serif;font-size:13px;">Out of 12 comparisons there is just 1 word, head, which looks a bit similar to Yiddish but which is most likely a coincidence or a loan.</span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Lucida Sans',Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,'Bitstream Vera Sans',sans-serif;font-size:13px;"><br></span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Lucida Sans',Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,'Bitstream Vera Sans',sans-serif;font-size:13px;">Torre, how can the core vocabulary of a language with words like<span> </span><i>person</i><span> </span>and<span> </span><i>question<span> </span></i>change so much from it's, what you say is, a Turkish source language?</span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Lucida Sans',Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,'Bitstream Vera Sans',sans-serif;font-size:13px;"><br></span></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2015-02-15 11:38 GMT+01:00 Tore Gannholm<span> </span><a href="mailto:tore@gannholm.org" target="_blank">tore@gannholm.org</a><span> </span>[gothic-l]<span> </span><span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:gothic-l@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank">gothic-l@yahoogroups.com</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 4px;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;"><u></u><div style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);"><span> </span><div><div><div><p style="margin:0px 0px 1em;">Hi,</p><div><br></div><div><div title="Page 353"><div><div><p style="margin:0px 0px 1em;"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Garamond;">Brook, Kevin Alan, The Jews of Khazaria, 2009</span></p><div style="margin:0px 0px 1em;"><br></div><div title="Page 354"><div><div><p style="margin:0px 0px 1em;"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Garamond;">Dunlop, D.M., The history of the Jewish Khazars, 1954<br></span></p><div style="margin:0px 0px 1em;"><br></div><div title="Page 359"><div><div><p style="margin:0px 0px 1em;"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Garamond;">Koestler, Arthur, Den trettonde stammen, 1992 </span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom:22px;color:rgb(17,17,17);font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);"><h1 style="padding:0px;margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-left:0px;"><span>The Thirteenth Tribe: The Kazar Empire and Its Heritage</span> <span>Paperback</span> <span>– June, 1978</span></h1></div><div style="margin-bottom:0px;color:rgb(17,17,17);font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);">by <span><a href="http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=dp_byline_sr_book_1?ie=UTF8&field-author=Arthur+Koestler&search-alias=books&text=Arthur+Koestler&sort=relevancerank" style="text-decoration:none;color:rgb(0,102,192);" target="_blank">Arthur Koestler</a> <span><span>(Author)</span></span></span></div><div style="margin-bottom:0px;color:rgb(17,17,17);font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);"><span><br></span></div><div style="margin-bottom:0px;color:rgb(17,17,17);font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);"><span>According to the Exhibitions in the</span></div><h2 align="left" style="font-family:Times;margin:5px;"><font face="Arial" size="3">Museum in Oskar Schindler’s Factory in Krakow</font></h2><div><span style="color:rgb(85,85,85);font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);">the Germans had not come across the Yiddish language until they invaded Poland and </span><font color="#555555" face="Arial, sans-serif">realised that the Polish jews spoke another language than the jews in Germany</font></div><div><font color="#555555" face="Arial, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font color="#555555" face="Arial, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font color="#555555" face="Arial, sans-serif">Tore</font></div><div><font color="#555555" face="Arial, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font color="#555555" face="Arial, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><br></div></div></div></div><span><div><blockquote type="cite" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 4px;"><div>On 14 Feb 2015, at 19:43,<span> </span><a href="mailto:write2andy@yahoo.com" target="_blank">write2andy@yahoo.com</a><span> </span>[gothic-l] <<a href="mailto:gothic-l@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank">gothic-l@yahoogroups.com</a>> wrote:</div><br><div><div style="font-size:13px;font-family:Arial,helvetica,clean,sans-serif;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;"><div><div style="font-family:Georgia;"><div style="margin:0px 0px 1em;"><br></div><p style="margin:0px 0px 1em;">"There is no question"? I'm guessing you know 0% of the Yiddish language. Show me where you found that there is "no question" that Yiddish is Turkic, or could possible have any Turkic influence at all. I know Yiddish, not fluently but I know a large portion of it (probably 30% to 50%) and not once have I seen any Turkic words in it. Not just the core vocabulary, but loan words, too. I haven't seen even one. If you can come up with at least one, or hopefully more, especially ones that clearly aren't later loan words, please, do show me them.</p><p style="margin:0px 0px 1em;">And it's spelled "Yiddish", with a "Y".</p><p style="margin:0px 0px 1em;">And there's no way Yiddish grew out of Gothic.<br></p><div style="margin:0px 0px 1em;"><br></div></div><div style="color:rgb(255,255,255);min-height:0px;"></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br></span></div><div style="margin:0px 0px 1em;"><br></div></div><div style="color:rgb(255,255,255);min-height:0px;"></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div><div style="margin:0px 0px 1em;"><br></div></div><div style="color:rgb(255,255,255);min-height:0px;"></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div><p></p>
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<div id="ygrp-sponsor" style="width:160px; float:right; clear:none; margin:0 0 25px 0; background: #fff;">
<!-- Start Recommendations -->
<div id="ygrp-reco">
</div>
<!-- End Recommendations -->
</div> <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
<div style="clear:both; color: #FFF; font-size:1px;">.</div>
</div>
<img src="http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=1020598/grpspId=1711643627/msgId=12135/stime=1424016637" width="1" height="1"> <br>
<img src="http://y.analytics.yahoo.com/fpc.pl?ywarid=515FB27823A7407E&a=10001310322279&js=no&resp=img" width="1" height="1">
<div style="color: #fff; height: 0;">__,_._,___</div>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~-->
</body>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~-->
<head>
<style type="text/css">
<!--
#ygrp-mkp {
border: 1px solid #d8d8d8;
font-family: Arial;
margin: 10px 0;
padding: 0 10px;
}
#ygrp-mkp hr {
border: 1px solid #d8d8d8;
}
#ygrp-mkp #hd {
color: #628c2a;
font-size: 85%;
font-weight: 700;
line-height: 122%;
margin: 10px 0;
}
#ygrp-mkp #ads {
margin-bottom: 10px;
}
#ygrp-mkp .ad {
padding: 0 0;
}
#ygrp-mkp .ad p {
margin: 0;
}
#ygrp-mkp .ad a {
color: #0000ff;
text-decoration: none;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc {
font-family: Arial;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc #hd {
margin: 10px 0px;
font-weight: 700;
font-size: 78%;
line-height: 122%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc .ad {
margin-bottom: 10px;
padding: 0 0;
}
#actions {
font-family: Verdana;
font-size: 11px;
padding: 10px 0;
}
#activity {
background-color: #e0ecee;
float: left;
font-family: Verdana;
font-size: 10px;
padding: 10px;
}
#activity span {
font-weight: 700;
}
#activity span:first-child {
text-transform: uppercase;
}
#activity span a {
color: #5085b6;
text-decoration: none;
}
#activity span span {
color: #ff7900;
}
#activity span .underline {
text-decoration: underline;
}
.attach {
clear: both;
display: table;
font-family: Arial;
font-size: 12px;
padding: 10px 0;
width: 400px;
}
.attach div a {
text-decoration: none;
}
.attach img {
border: none;
padding-right: 5px;
}
.attach label {
display: block;
margin-bottom: 5px;
}
.attach label a {
text-decoration: none;
}
blockquote {
margin: 0 0 0 4px;
}
.bold {
font-family: Arial;
font-size: 13px;
font-weight: 700;
}
.bold a {
text-decoration: none;
}
dd.last p a {
font-family: Verdana;
font-weight: 700;
}
dd.last p span {
margin-right: 10px;
font-family: Verdana;
font-weight: 700;
}
dd.last p span.yshortcuts {
margin-right: 0;
}
div.attach-table div div a {
text-decoration: none;
}
div.attach-table {
width: 400px;
}
div.file-title a, div.file-title a:active, div.file-title a:hover, div.file-title a:visited {
text-decoration: none;
}
div.photo-title a, div.photo-title a:active, div.photo-title a:hover, div.photo-title a:visited {
text-decoration: none;
}
div#ygrp-mlmsg #ygrp-msg p a span.yshortcuts {
font-family: Verdana;
font-size: 10px;
font-weight: normal;
}
.green {
color: #628c2a;
}
.MsoNormal {
margin: 0 0 0 0;
}
o {
font-size: 0;
}
#photos div {
float: left;
width: 72px;
}
#photos div div {
border: 1px solid #666666;
height: 62px;
overflow: hidden;
width: 62px;
}
#photos div label {
color: #666666;
font-size: 10px;
overflow: hidden;
text-align: center;
white-space: nowrap;
width: 64px;
}
#reco-category {
font-size: 77%;
}
#reco-desc {
font-size: 77%;
}
.replbq {
margin: 4px;
}
#ygrp-actbar div a:first-child {
/* border-right: 0px solid #000;*/
margin-right: 2px;
padding-right: 5px;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg {
font-size: 13px;
font-family: Arial, helvetica,clean, sans-serif;
*font-size: small;
*font: x-small;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg table {
font-size: inherit;
font: 100%;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {
font: 99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {
font:115% monospace;
*font-size:100%;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg * {
line-height: 1.22em;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg #logo {
padding-bottom: 10px;
}
#ygrp-msg p a {
font-family: Verdana;
}
#ygrp-msg p#attach-count span {
color: #1E66AE;
font-weight: 700;
}
#ygrp-reco #reco-head {
color: #ff7900;
font-weight: 700;
}
#ygrp-reco {
margin-bottom: 20px;
padding: 0px;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov li a {
font-size: 130%;
text-decoration: none;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov li {
font-size: 77%;
list-style-type: square;
padding: 6px 0;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov ul {
margin: 0;
padding: 0 0 0 8px;
}
#ygrp-text {
font-family: Georgia;
}
#ygrp-text p {
margin: 0 0 1em 0;
}
#ygrp-text tt {
font-size: 120%;
}
#ygrp-vital ul li:last-child {
border-right: none !important;
}
-->
</style>
</head>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~-->
</html>
<!-- end group email -->