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<p>No I said I understand the main opinion of the definition of Yiddish id that it is based on a Germanic language, in this case Gothic with mixtures of Turkish and Slavic languages.<div class><br class></div><div class><br class></div><div class>Tore</div><div class><br class></div><div class><br class><div><blockquote type="cite" class><div class>On 15 Feb 2015, at 16:20, Dicentis a <a href="mailto:roellingua@gmail.com" class>roellingua@gmail.com</a> [gothic-l] <<a href="mailto:gothic-l@yahoogroups.com" class>gothic-l@yahoogroups.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class><div id="ygrp-mlmsg" style="font-size: 13px;font-family: Arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;font-style: normal;font-variant: normal;font-weight: normal;letter-spacing: normal;text-align: start;text-indent: 0px;text-transform: none;white-space: normal;" class><div id="ygrp-msg" class><div id="ygrp-text" style="font-family: Georgia;" class><div style="margin: 0px 0px 1em;" class><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div dir="ltr" class>Hi Tore,<div class><br class></div><div class>A few citations of books is not proof of your claim, can you please cite parts out of these books which support your claim?</div><div class><br class></div><div class>Also, I will make a comparison between some Yiddish basic vocabulary and Turkish vocabulary here, Torre please explain why these differences are here if your theory is correct:</div><div class><br class></div><div class><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class>(די פֿראַגע(ס</span><em style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class> di frage(s)</em><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class> – question(s) Turkish for question is<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class>soru</b></span></div><div class><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class>(דאָס בוך (ביכער</span><em style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class> dos bukh (bikher)</em><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class> – book Turkish for book is a loan from Arabic<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class>kitap</b>, and the word for to write is<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class>yazmak</b>, doesn't look like bukh at all</span></div><div class><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class>(דער טיש(ן</span><em style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class> der tish(n)</em><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class> – table Turkish for table is<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class>tablo</b></span><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class><br class></span></div><div class><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class>(דער מענטש(ן</span><em style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class> der mentsh(n)</em><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class> – person Turkish loan from Arabic is<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class>insan</b>, another word is<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class>adam</b>, a native Turkish word is </span><font color="#333333" face="Lucida Sans, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, Bitstream Vera Sans, sans-serif" class><b class>kişi</b>, please explain why mentsh and kishi are similar</font><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class><b class><br class></b></span></div><div class><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class>צום בײַשפּיל </span><em style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class> tsum bayshpil</em><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class> – for example looks like German zum Beispiel and not like Turkish<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class>mesele</b></span><font color="#333333" face="Lucida Sans, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, Bitstream Vera Sans, sans-serif" class><br class></font></div><div class><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class>?װאָס איז דאָס</span><em style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class> vos iz dos?</em><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class> – what is this? Turkish would be something like<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class>nedir?</b> German would be: Was ist das?</span><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class><b class><br class></b></span></div><div class><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class>. . .דאָס איז</span><em style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class> dos iz… </em><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class>– this is… Turkish would be: noun + -<b class>dir</b>, German would be das ist...</span><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class><br class></span></div><div class><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class>(די שטול(ן</span><em style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class> di shtul(n)</em><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class> – chair Turkish is<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class>sandalye</b>, German is Stuhl</span><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class><br class></span></div><div class><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class>(דער מאַן (מענער </span><em style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class> der man (mener)</em><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class> – man Turkish is<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class>adam</b>, but this word looks like German and Dutch Mann/man and Dutch meneer and German Mein Herr</span><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class><br class></span></div><div class><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class>(די פֿרױ(ען</span><em style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class> di froy(en)</em><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class> – woman Turkish is<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class>bayan</b>, German is Frau.</span><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class><br class></span></div><div class><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class>(דאָס מײדל(עך</span><em style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class> dos meydl(ekh)</em><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class> – girl Turkish is </span><font color="#333333" face="Lucida Sans, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, Bitstream Vera Sans, sans-serif" class><b class>kız</b>, German is Mädchen</font><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class><br class></span></div><div class><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class>(דער קאָפּ (קעפּ</span><em style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class> der kop (kep)</em><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class> – head Turkish is </span><font color="#333333" face="Lucida Sans, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, Bitstream Vera Sans, sans-serif" class><b class>kafa</b><br class></font></div><div class><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class><br class></span></div><div class><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class>Out of 12 comparisons there is just 1 word, head, which looks a bit similar to Yiddish but which is most likely a coincidence or a loan.</span></div><div class><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class><br class></span></div><div class><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class>Torre, how can the core vocabulary of a language with words like<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class>person</i><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>and<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class>question<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></i>change so much from it's, what you say is, a Turkish source language?</span></div><div class><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class><br class></span></div><div class><br class></div><div class><br class></div><div class><br class></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br class><div class="gmail_quote">2015-02-15 11:38 GMT+01:00 Tore Gannholm<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:tore@gannholm.org" class>tore@gannholm.org</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[gothic-l]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span dir="ltr" class><<a href="mailto:gothic-l@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank" class>gothic-l@yahoogroups.com</a>></span>:<br class><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 4px;border-left-width: 1px;border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204);border-left-style: solid;"><u class></u><div style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class><span class> </span><div class><div class><div class><p style="margin: 0px 0px 1em;" class>Hi,</p><div class><br class></div><div class><div title="Page 353" class><div class><div class><p style="margin: 0px 0px 1em;" class><span style="font-size: 11pt;font-family: Garamond;" class>Brook, Kevin Alan, The Jews of Khazaria, 2009</span></p><div style="margin: 0px 0px 1em;" class><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div title="Page 354" class><div class><div class><p style="margin: 0px 0px 1em;" class><span style="font-size: 11pt;font-family: Garamond;" class>Dunlop, D.M., The history of the Jewish Khazars, 1954<br class></span></p><div style="margin: 0px 0px 1em;" class><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div title="Page 359" class><div class><div class><p style="margin: 0px 0px 1em;" class><span style="font-size: 11pt;font-family: Garamond;" class>Koestler, Arthur, Den trettonde stammen, 1992 </span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 22px;color: rgb(17, 17, 17);font-family: Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 13px;background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class><h1 style="padding: 0px;margin-top: 0px;margin-right: 0px;margin-left: 0px;" class><span class>The Thirteenth Tribe: The Kazar Empire and Its Heritage</span> <span class>Paperback</span> <span class>– June, 1978</span></h1></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px;color: rgb(17, 17, 17);font-family: Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 13px;background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class>by <span class><a href="http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=dp_byline_sr_book_1?ie=UTF8&field-author=Arthur+Koestler&search-alias=books&text=Arthur+Koestler&sort=relevancerank" target="_blank" style="text-decoration: none;color: rgb(0, 102, 192);" class>Arthur Koestler</a> <span class><span class>(Author)</span></span></span></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px;color: rgb(17, 17, 17);font-family: Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 13px;background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class><span class><br class></span></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px;color: rgb(17, 17, 17);font-family: Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 13px;background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class><span class>According to the Exhibitions in the</span></div><h2 align="left" style="font-family: Times;margin: 5px;" class><font face="Arial" size="3" class>Museum in Oskar Schindler’s Factory in Krakow</font></h2><div class><span style="color: rgb(85, 85, 85);font-family: Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 13px;background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class>the Germans had not come across the Yiddish language until they invaded Poland and </span><font color="#555555" face="Arial, sans-serif" class>realised that the Polish jews spoke another language than the jews in Germany</font></div><div class><font color="#555555" face="Arial, sans-serif" class><br class></font></div><div class><font color="#555555" face="Arial, sans-serif" class><br class></font></div><div class><font color="#555555" face="Arial, sans-serif" class>Tore</font></div><div class><font color="#555555" face="Arial, sans-serif" class><br class></font></div><div class><font color="#555555" face="Arial, sans-serif" class><br class></font></div><div class><br class></div></div></div></div><span class><div class><blockquote type="cite" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 4px;" class><div class>On 14 Feb 2015, at 19:43,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:write2andy@yahoo.com" target="_blank" class>write2andy@yahoo.com</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[gothic-l] <<a href="mailto:gothic-l@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank" class>gothic-l@yahoogroups.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class><div class><div style="font-size: 13px;font-family: Arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;font-style: normal;font-variant: normal;font-weight: normal;letter-spacing: normal;text-align: start;text-indent: 0px;text-transform: none;white-space: normal;" class><div class><div style="font-family: Georgia;" class><div style="margin: 0px 0px 1em;" class><br class></div><p style="margin: 0px 0px 1em;" class>"There is no question"? I'm guessing you know 0% of the Yiddish language. Show me where you found that there is "no question" that Yiddish is Turkic, or could possible have any Turkic influence at all. I know Yiddish, not fluently but I know a large portion of it (probably 30% to 50%) and not once have I seen any Turkic words in it. Not just the core vocabulary, but loan words, too. I haven't seen even one. If you can come up with at least one, or hopefully more, especially ones that clearly aren't later loan words, please, do show me them.</p><p style="margin: 0px 0px 1em;" class>And it's spelled "Yiddish", with a "Y".</p><p style="margin: 0px 0px 1em;" class>And there's no way Yiddish grew out of Gothic.<br class></p><div style="margin: 0px 0px 1em;" class><br class></div></div><div style="color: rgb(255, 255, 255);min-height: 0px;" class></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br class></span></div><div style="margin: 0px 0px 1em;" class><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div></div><div style="color: rgb(255, 255, 255);min-height: 0px;" class></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br class></div><div style="margin: 0px 0px 1em;" class><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div></div><div style="color: rgb(255, 255, 255);height: 0px;" class></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br class></div></p>
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<div style="color: #747575; float: right;"> • <a href="https://info.yahoo.com/privacy/us/yahoo/groups/details.html" style="text-decoration: none;">Privacy</a> • <a href="mailto:gothic-l-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe" style="text-decoration: none;">Unsubscribe</a> • <a href="https://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/terms/" style="text-decoration: none;">Terms of Use</a> </div>
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