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<p><div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><div style="font-size: 13px;" class><span class>Dear Gothic-l group,</span></div><div style="font-size: 13px;" class><span class>Didn't we go through all of this "Yiddish / Turkish" business last June? I thought it was worked out. I dredged up, and I repost below, my comments on Yiddish from June 2014; I recall that Dirk was on the right track, and I also remember a posting from Edmund with his typically high level of erudition. Anyone serious about the history of Yiddish should read Max Weinreich's 'History of the Yiddish language' (English translation published in 1980; this is an "abridged" version that is still nearly 1000
pages long; the "full" work was printed ca. 2008[??] by YIVO in 2 heavy volumes). The history and development of Yiddish are known and documented in great depth and detail.</span></div><div style="font-size: 13px;" class><span class>David</span></div><div style="font-size: 13px;" class><span class><br></span></div><div style="font-size: 13px;" class><span class><br></span></div><div style="font-size: 13px;" class><span class><br></span></div><div style="font-size: 13px;" class><span class>>Dirk, <br clear="none" class></span></div><div style="font-size: 13.3333px;background-color: transparent;" class><span class>You are pretty much right regarding the history of the Yiddish (Note: "Jiddisch" in modern German; no one spells it "Jiddish" to my knowledge). I had a few graduate courses on Yiddish by an eminent professor of Yiddish linguistics, so let me convey a few basic facts that I remember. <br clear="none" class></span></div><div style="font-siz
e: 13.3333px;background-color: transparent;" class><span class><br clear="none" class></span></div><div style="font-size: 13.3333px;background-color: transparent;" class><span class>The origins of Yiddish are traced to central Germany (think Speyer, Worms, Mainz) in the 12th century (give or take), so Jews speaking a
dialect of Middle High German. Yiddish as it developed incorporated (1) small amounts of French/Romance vocabulary ("lomir bentshn"), (2) words of Hebrew/Aramaic origin ("khaver, khaverim" - friend(s)), and (3) Slavic words as the Jewish center of gravity moved towards the east. Grammatically/structurally German(ic), with strong components of borrowing.<br clear="none" class></span></div><div style="font-size: 13.3333px;background-color: transparent;" class><br clear="none" class><span class></span></div><div style="font-size: 13.3333px;background-color: transparent;" class><span class>There are several centuries and a lot of miles separating Yiddish from Gothic. And I do not know of a single word in Yiddish coming from Turkish. <br clear="none" class></span></div><div style="font-size: 13.3333px;background-color: transparent;" class><br clear="none" class><span class></span></div><div style="font-size: 13.3333px;background-color: transparent;" class><span cl
ass>There is much more to be said about Yiddish, but probably not on a Gothic listserv... An authoritative, quick account of Yiddish linguistic history can be found in 'The Germanic Languages.' ISBN 0-415-28079-6. Chapter 14, "Yiddish" contributed by Neil G. Jacobs, Ellen F. Prince and Johan van der Auwera. (This book also contains a wonderful chapter on Gothic by the late (and great) Winfred Lehmann.)</span></div><div style="font-size: 13.3333px;background-color: transparent;" class><br clear="none" class><span class></span></div><div style="font-size: 13.3333px;background-color: transparent;" class></div><div class id="yiv5150237165yqt13271" style="font-size: 13px;"><div style="font-size: 10pt;" class><div style="font-size: 12pt;" class><div dir="ltr" class><font face="Arial" size="2" class><b class><span class>From:</span></b> "d.faltin@hispeed.ch [gothic-l]" <gothic-l@yahoogroups.com><br clear="none" class><b class><span class>To:</span></b>&nb
sp;gothic-l@yahoogroups.com <br clear="none" class><b class><span class>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, June 10, 2014 4:23 AM<br clear="none" class><b class><span class>Subject:</span></b> [gothic-l] Jiddish related to Gothic?<br clear="none" class></font></div><div class><br clear="none" class><div id="yiv5150237165" class><div class><span class> </span><div id="yiv5150237165ygrp-mlmsg" class><div id="yiv5150237165ygrp-msg" class><div id="yiv5150237165ygrp-text" class><div class>Over at the Germanic-L somebody advocated the theory that Jiddish emerged as the result of an amalgamation
of Gothic, Slavic and Turkish. Personally, I don't think that this is true. Instead, I think Jiddish is derived from south Middle High German with later additions of Slavic (and perhaps other) elements. Can any of the linguistically trained members of this list settle this argument? In particular, is there a viable case for hypothesizing that Gothic played a role in the development of Jiddish?</div><div class> </div><div class>Thanks a lot</div><div class>Dirk<</div></div><div style="color: rgb(255, 255, 255);min-height: 0px;" class></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;" class> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;" class> <div dir="ltr" class> <br><br><br><br><br><hr size="1" class> <font size="2" face="Arial" class> <b class><span style="font-weight:bold;" class
>From:</span></b> "write2andy@yahoo.com [gothic-l]" <gothic-l@yahoogroups.com><br class> <b class><span style="font-weight: bold;" class>To:</span></b> gothic-l@yahoogroups.com <br class> <b class><span style="font-weight: bold;" class>Sent:</span></b> Sunday, February 15, 2015 12:27 PM<br class> <b class><span style="font-weight: bold;" class>Subject:</span></b> [gothic-l] Re: Jiddish<br class> </font> </div> <div class><br class><div id="yiv8467455108" class><div class>
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<div class>Most of the available literature trying to explain this usually relies on the following facts: the Khazars converted to Judaism, there are lots of East European Jews, etc. They never offer a way how they are linked, just "Isn't it uncanny that there are lots of Jews in Eastern Europe?" It's fruitless. Any other things you can find on the Internet don't even bother to explain it. I saw one video that said the Ashkenazi Jews are actually Khazars because the Jews committed the attacks on the Twin Towers. Yes, this video unfortunately exists; it does nothing to prove its claim that the Jews are Khazars, it only goes off in another tangent. Another webpage I saw claimed this, and then proved it by saying the Holocaust is a lie. Please.</div><div class><br clear="none" class></div><div class>I can assure you, "kop" and "kafa" are a coincidence. The Yiddish comes from German "Kopf", the Turkish
word comes from Arabic.</div><div class>And the second source, saying the Germans had not come across the Yiddish language until they reached Poland, is wrong. The Jews in Poland did speak another, unfamiliar language to the German Jews at that time, but it was a Judeo-Slavic language called "Knaanic". Neither Yiddish nor Knaanic has any tie to Turkic, as far as I know.</div><div class><br clear="none" class></div><div class>Yiddish grammar shares nothing with Turkic. Turkic is agglutinative, Yiddish is not. Turkic uses vowel harmony, Yiddish does not. I could go on.<br clear="none" class></div>
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