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<p>Why don’t you read the books yourself?<div class><br class></div><div class>It is called the 13th tribe.</div><div class><br class></div><div class>Tore</div><div class><br class></div><div class><br class><div><blockquote type="cite" class><div class>On 15 Feb 2015, at 17:10, Dicentis a <a href="mailto:roellingua@gmail.com" class>roellingua@gmail.com</a> [gothic-l] <<a href="mailto:gothic-l@yahoogroups.com" class>gothic-l@yahoogroups.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class><div id="ygrp-mlmsg" style="font-size: 13px;font-family: Arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;font-style: normal;font-variant: normal;font-weight: normal;letter-spacing: normal;text-align: start;text-indent: 0px;text-transform: none;white-space: normal;" class><div id="ygrp-msg" class><div id="ygrp-text" style="font-family: Georgia;" class><div style="margin: 0px 0px 1em;" class><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div dir="ltr" class>Tore, can you please show me which Turkish features are present in Yiddish? As you are citing these books, you have of course read the relevant parts in those books, otherwise you wouldn't cite them, can you cite the parts in those books in which it is claimed that Yiddish has Turkish influences and the linguistic explanations?</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br class><div class="gmail_quote">2015-02-15 17:04 GMT+01:00 Tore Gannholm<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:tore@gannholm.org" class>tore@gannholm.org</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[gothic-l]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span dir="ltr" class><<a href="mailto:gothic-l@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank" class>gothic-l@yahoogroups.com</a>></span>:<br class><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 4px;border-left-width: 1px;border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204);border-left-style: solid;"><u class></u><div style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class><span class> </span><div class><div class><div class><p style="margin: 0px 0px 1em;" class>No I said I understand the main opinion of the definition of Yiddish id that it is based on a Germanic language, in this case Gothic with mixtures of Turkish and Slavic languages.</p><div class><br class></div><div class><br class></div><div class>Tore</div><div class><div class="h5"><div class><br class></div><div class><br class><div class><blockquote type="cite" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 4px;" class><div class>On 15 Feb 2015, at 16:20, Dicentis a<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:roellingua@gmail.com" target="_blank" class>roellingua@gmail.com</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[gothic-l] <<a href="mailto:gothic-l@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank" class>gothic-l@yahoogroups.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class><div class><div style="font-size: 13px;font-family: Arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;font-style: normal;font-variant: normal;font-weight: normal;letter-spacing: normal;text-align: start;text-indent: 0px;text-transform: none;white-space: normal;" class><div class><div style="font-family: Georgia;" class><div style="margin: 0px 0px 1em;" class><br class></div><div dir="ltr" class>Hi Tore,<div class><br class></div><div class>A few citations of books is not proof of your claim, can you please cite parts out of these books which support your claim?</div><div class><br class></div><div class>Also, I will make a comparison between some Yiddish basic vocabulary and Turkish vocabulary here, Torre please explain why these differences are here if your theory is correct:</div><div class><br class></div><div class><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class>(די פֿראַגע(ס</span><em style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>di frage(s)</em><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class> – question(s) Turkish for question is<span class> </span><b class>soru</b></span></div><div class><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class>(דאָס בוך (ביכער</span><em style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>dos bukh (bikher)</em><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class> – book Turkish for book is a loan from Arabic<span class> </span><b class>kitap</b>, and the word for to write is<span class> </span><b class>yazmak</b>, doesn't look like bukh at all</span></div><div class><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class>(דער טיש(ן</span><em style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>der tish(n)</em><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class> – table Turkish for table is<span class> </span><b class>tablo</b></span><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class><br class></span></div><div class><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class>(דער מענטש(ן</span><em style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>der mentsh(n)</em><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class> – person Turkish loan from Arabic is<span class> </span><b class>insan</b>, another word is<span class> </span><b class>adam</b>, a native Turkish word is </span><font color="#333333" face="Lucida Sans, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, Bitstream Vera Sans, sans-serif" class><b class>kişi</b>, please explain why mentsh and kishi are similar</font><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class><b class><br class></b></span></div><div class><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class>צום בײַשפּיל </span><em style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>tsum bayshpil</em><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class> – for example looks like German zum Beispiel and not like Turkish<span class> </span><b class>mesele</b></span><font color="#333333" face="Lucida Sans, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, Bitstream Vera Sans, sans-serif" class><br class></font></div><div class><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class>?װאָס איז דאָס</span><em style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>vos iz dos?</em><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class> – what is this? Turkish would be something like<span class> </span><b class>nedir?</b> German would be: Was ist das?</span><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class><b class><br class></b></span></div><div class><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class>. . .דאָס איז</span><em style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>dos iz… </em><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class>– this is… Turkish would be: noun + -<b class>dir</b>, German would be das ist...</span><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class><br class></span></div><div class><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class>(די שטול(ן</span><em style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>di shtul(n)</em><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class> – chair Turkish is<span class> </span><b class>sandalye</b>, German is Stuhl</span><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class><br class></span></div><div class><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class>(דער מאַן (מענער </span><em style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>der man (mener)</em><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class> – man Turkish is<span class> </span><b class>adam</b>, but this word looks like German and Dutch Mann/man and Dutch meneer and German Mein Herr</span><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class><br class></span></div><div class><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class>(די פֿרױ(ען</span><em style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>di froy(en)</em><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class> – woman Turkish is<span class> </span><b class>bayan</b>, German is Frau.</span><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class><br class></span></div><div class><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class>(דאָס מײדל(עך</span><em style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>dos meydl(ekh)</em><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class> – girl Turkish is </span><font color="#333333" face="Lucida Sans, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, Bitstream Vera Sans, sans-serif" class><b class>kız</b>, German is Mädchen</font><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class><br class></span></div><div class><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class>(דער קאָפּ (קעפּ</span><em style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>der kop (kep)</em><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class> – head Turkish is </span><font color="#333333" face="Lucida Sans, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, Bitstream Vera Sans, sans-serif" class><b class>kafa</b><br class></font></div><div class><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class><br class></span></div><div class><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class>Out of 12 comparisons there is just 1 word, head, which looks a bit similar to Yiddish but which is most likely a coincidence or a loan.</span></div><div class><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class><br class></span></div><div class><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class>Torre, how can the core vocabulary of a language with words like<span class> </span><i class>person</i><span class> </span>and<span class> </span><i class>question<span class> </span></i>change so much from it's, what you say is, a Turkish source language?</span></div><div class><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family: 'Lucida Sans', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', sans-serif;font-size: 13px;" class><br class></span></div><div class><br class></div><div class><br class></div><div class><br class></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br class><div class="gmail_quote">2015-02-15 11:38 GMT+01:00 Tore Gannholm<span class> </span><a href="mailto:tore@gannholm.org" target="_blank" class>tore@gannholm.org</a><span class> </span>[gothic-l]<span class> </span><span dir="ltr" class><<a href="mailto:gothic-l@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank" class>gothic-l@yahoogroups.com</a>></span>:<br class><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 4px;border-left-width: 1px;border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204);border-left-style: solid;"><u class></u><div style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class><span class> </span><div class><div class><div class><p style="margin: 0px 0px 1em;" class>Hi,</p><div class><br class></div><div class><div title="Page 353" class><div class><div class><p style="margin: 0px 0px 1em;" class><span style="font-size: 11pt;font-family: Garamond;" class>Brook, Kevin Alan, The Jews of Khazaria, 2009</span></p><div style="margin: 0px 0px 1em;" class><br class></div><div title="Page 354" class><div class><div class><p style="margin: 0px 0px 1em;" class><span style="font-size: 11pt;font-family: Garamond;" class>Dunlop, D.M., The history of the Jewish Khazars, 1954<br class></span></p><div style="margin: 0px 0px 1em;" class><br class></div><div title="Page 359" class><div class><div class><p style="margin: 0px 0px 1em;" class><span style="font-size: 11pt;font-family: Garamond;" class>Koestler, Arthur, Den trettonde stammen, 1992 </span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 22px;color: rgb(17, 17, 17);font-family: Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 13px;background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class><h1 style="padding: 0px;margin-top: 0px;margin-right: 0px;margin-left: 0px;" class><span class>The Thirteenth Tribe: The Kazar Empire and Its Heritage</span> <span class>Paperback</span> <span class>– June, 1978</span></h1></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px;color: rgb(17, 17, 17);font-family: Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 13px;background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class>by <span class><a href="http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=dp_byline_sr_book_1?ie=UTF8&field-author=Arthur+Koestler&search-alias=books&text=Arthur+Koestler&sort=relevancerank" target="_blank" style="text-decoration: none;color: rgb(0, 102, 192);" class>Arthur Koestler</a> <span class><span class>(Author)</span></span></span></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px;color: rgb(17, 17, 17);font-family: Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 13px;background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class><span class><br class></span></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0px;color: rgb(17, 17, 17);font-family: Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 13px;background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class><span class>According to the Exhibitions in the</span></div><h2 align="left" style="font-family: Times;margin: 5px;" class><font face="Arial" size="3" class>Museum in Oskar Schindler’s Factory in Krakow</font></h2><div class><span style="color: rgb(85, 85, 85);font-family: Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 13px;background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class>the Germans had not come across the Yiddish language until they invaded Poland and </span><font color="#555555" face="Arial, sans-serif" class>realised that the Polish jews spoke another language than the jews in Germany</font></div><div class><font color="#555555" face="Arial, sans-serif" class><br class></font></div><div class><font color="#555555" face="Arial, sans-serif" class><br class></font></div><div class><font color="#555555" face="Arial, sans-serif" class>Tore</font></div><div class><font color="#555555" face="Arial, sans-serif" class><br class></font></div><div class><font color="#555555" face="Arial, sans-serif" class><br class></font></div><div class><br class></div></div></div></div><span class><div class><blockquote type="cite" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 4px;" class><div class>On 14 Feb 2015, at 19:43,<span class> </span><a href="mailto:write2andy@yahoo.com" target="_blank" class>write2andy@yahoo.com</a><span class> </span>[gothic-l] <<a href="mailto:gothic-l@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank" class>gothic-l@yahoogroups.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class><div class><div style="font-size: 13px;font-family: Arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;font-style: normal;font-variant: normal;font-weight: normal;letter-spacing: normal;text-align: start;text-indent: 0px;text-transform: none;white-space: normal;" class><div class><div style="font-family: Georgia;" class><div style="margin: 0px 0px 1em;" class><br class></div><p style="margin: 0px 0px 1em;" class>"There is no question"? I'm guessing you know 0% of the Yiddish language. Show me where you found that there is "no question" that Yiddish is Turkic, or could possible have any Turkic influence at all. I know Yiddish, not fluently but I know a large portion of it (probably 30% to 50%) and not once have I seen any Turkic words in it. Not just the core vocabulary, but loan words, too. I haven't seen even one. If you can come up with at least one, or hopefully more, especially ones that clearly aren't later loan words, please, do show me them.</p><p style="margin: 0px 0px 1em;" class>And it's spelled "Yiddish", with a "Y".</p><p style="margin: 0px 0px 1em;" class>And there's no way Yiddish grew out of Gothic.<br class></p><div style="margin: 0px 0px 1em;" class><br class></div></div><div style="color: rgb(255, 255, 255);min-height: 0px;" class></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br class></span></div><div style="margin: 0px 0px 1em;" class><br class></div></div><div style="color: rgb(255, 255, 255);min-height: 0px;" class></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br class></div><div style="margin: 0px 0px 1em;" class><br class></div></div><div style="color: rgb(255, 255, 255);min-height: 0px;" class></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br class></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0px 0px 1em;" class><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div></div><div class><div class="h5"><div style="color: rgb(255, 255, 255);min-height: 0px;" class></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br class></div><div style="margin: 0px 0px 1em;" class><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div></div><div style="color: rgb(255, 255, 255);height: 0px;" class></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br class></div></p>
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