<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">
<html>
<head>
</head>
<body style="background-color: #fff;">
<span style="display:none"> </span>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStartT|**|-~-->
<div id="ygrp-mlmsg" style="position:relative;">
<div id="ygrp-msg" style="z-index: 1;">
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEndT|**|-~-->
<div id="ygrp-text" >
<p><div dir="ltr"><p dir="ltr">I wouldn't have guessed their was, given my years of Latin and Germanic languages studying. Even the "source" given in the wiki looked sketchy. But I'd like to think that somehow a similar meaning was given, or something akin to a friendship, be it militaristic or not. Some attribute Russian's друг to have the same root as this *druhtiz. But as far as meaning, it's fairly obvious it didn't get so far in the Germanic languages. It remained fairly militaristic.</p><p>Also, I do have a slight bone to pick with drauhtiwitoþ, at least the translation. Given the secondary word is witoþ, would it not be noteworthy to incorporate its meaning into the greater word? Effectively war-law, something like set rules for waging war or fighting for a particular army? Think perhaps Geneva Convention, but without it being as modern nor international of course. Or an army's or nation's particular way of waging war. What do you think?<br></p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mar 20, 2015 3:12 PM, "<a href="mailto:edmundfairfax@yahoo.ca" target="_blank">edmundfairfax@yahoo.ca</a> [gothic-l]" <<a href="mailto:gothic-l@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank">gothic-l@yahoogroups.com</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left:1px #ccc solid;">
<u></u>
<div style="background-color:#fff;">
<span> </span>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p>Dear Johann,</p><div><br></div><div>Sorry. My question was rhetorical. There is in fact no evidence. The early Germanic cognates do not allow one to reconstruct the specific meaning 'comitatus;' at best, one must settle for 'host, retinue (of some kind)', although 'comitatus' certainly could be subsumed in this broad semantic field:</div><div><br></div><div>Gothic: drauhti-witoth 'military service'</div><div>ON: drott 'household, people; host of the king's men, bodyguard of a king'</div><div>OE: dryht 'people, multitude, army'</div><div>OFris: drecht 'wedding entourage'</div><div>OS: druht-folk 'army'</div><div>MHG: truht 'troop, squad, platoon'</div><div><br></div><div>Edmund</div><div><br><br>---In <a href="mailto:Gothic-L@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank">Gothic-L@yahoogroups.com</a>, <anheropl0x@...> wrote :<br><br><div><div dir="ltr">There isn't. As far as I know. That's why I said what I said. Although gmail decided to make the text super tiny for some unknown reason.<br></div><div><br><blockquote><span><div>On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 2:36 PM, <a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:edmundfairfax@..." target="_blank">edmundfairfax@...</a> [gothic-l] <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:gothic-l@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank">gothic-l@yahoogroups.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote style="border-left:1px #ccc solid;"><u></u><div style="background-color:#fff;">
<span> </span><div><div><div><p>Dear Johann,</p><div><br></div><div>Where is the evidence that *druhtiz means specifically a 'comitatus' and not merely 'host, band, multitude' broadly?</div><div><br><br>---In <a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:gothic-l@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank">gothic-l@yahoogroups.com</a>, <anheropl0x@...> wrote :<br><br><div><span><div dir="ltr">This probably won't add too much, but I did find this on the wiki.<br><br>"The Germanic term for the <i>comitatus</i> is reconstructed as <i>*druhtiz</i>, with <a rel="nofollow" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_English" title="Old English" target="_blank">Old English</a> forms <i>dryht</i> and <i>druht</i>, and <a rel="nofollow" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavian_languages" title="Scandinavian languages" target="_blank">Scandinavian</a> <i>drótt</i>.<sup><a rel="nofollow" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comitatus_%28classical_meaning%29#cite_note-3" target="_blank"><span>[</span>3<span>]</span></a>" <font>Obviously *druhtiz became *drauhts in Gothic. But whether or not it did</font> <font>retain the older meaning, or if comitatus and *druhtiz actually do mean the same thing, I'm not yet sure. I'll try to look into it though.</font><br></sup></div></span><div><br><blockquote><span><div>On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Marja Erwin <a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:marja-e@..." target="_blank">marja-e@...</a> [gothic-l] <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:gothic-l@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank">gothic-l@yahoogroups.com</a>></span> wrote:<span><br><blockquote style="border-left:1px #ccc solid;"><u></u><div style="background-color:#fff;">
<span> </span><div><div><div><p><span>On Mar 20, 2015, at 1:50 PM, <a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:edmundfairfax@..." target="_blank">edmundfairfax@...</a> [gothic-l] <<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:gothic-l@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank">gothic-l@yahoogroups.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> As European history during the last 1500 years clearly shows, Christians have been no less warriorlike or militaristic than the infidel or heathen. Need I mention the Crusades, amongst many other examples?<br>
> <br>
> Edmund<br>
<br></span>
But Christianity covers a lot of ground. We’d need to figure out what the evidence says about Gothic Christianity, in particular, and which pattern that would fit in other branches of Christianity.<br>
<br>
So what evidence do we have?<br>
<br>
1. The Passion of St. Saba and the other martyrologies.<br>
<br>
2. Reading-choice and word-choice in the Gothic bible.<br>
<br>
3. The claim that Wulfila was the son, or perhaps the grandson, of slaves.<br>
<br>
4. The claim that Wulfila did not translate the four books of Kings.<br>
<br>
5. The personal names of known Gothic Christians. Alareiks, of course, was named (or named himself) -reiks, but few known Christians of the previous generation had been so named, and some had been named (or named themselves) -thius.<br>
<br>
I think that’s enough to show a conversion from below, and a degree of conflict with existing power structures, and possibly with existing military institutions.<br>
<br>
I don’t think that’s enough to show whether or not they were leaning towards a peace church pattern before 376, and that had definitely changed by 395.</p></div><div style="color:#fff;min-height:0;"></div></div></div></div></blockquote></span></div><br><br clear="all"><br><span>-- <br><div><div dir="ltr"><span style="color:rgb(7,55,99);"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);"><i><font size="1">Glaðliga ríða Noregs męnn til Hildar þings.</font></i></span></span><br></div></div>
</span></span></blockquote></div></div></div><p></p></div><div style="color:#fff;min-height:0;"></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div><div dir="ltr"><span style="color:rgb(7,55,99);"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);"><i><font size="1">Glaðliga ríða Noregs męnn til Hildar þings.</font></i></span></span><br></div></div>
</span></blockquote></div></div></div><p></p>
</div>
<div style="color:#fff;min-height:0;"></div>
</div>
</div></div></blockquote></div>
</div>
</p>
</div>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~-->
<div style="color: #fff; height: 0;">__._,_.___</div>
<div style="clear:both"> </div>
<div id="fromDMARC" style="margin-top: 10px;">
<hr style="height:2px ; border-width:0; color:#E3E3E3; background-color:#E3E3E3;">
Posted by: =?UTF-8?Q?Johann_Dr=C3=B6ge?= <anheropl0x@gmail.com> <hr style="height:2px ; border-width:0; color:#E3E3E3; background-color:#E3E3E3;">
</div>
<div style="clear:both"> </div>
<table cellspacing=4px style="margin-top: 10px; margin-bottom: 10px; color: #2D50FD;">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="font-size: 12px; font-family: arial; font-weight: bold; padding: 7px 5px 5px;" >
<a style="text-decoration: none; color: #2D50FD" href="https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/gothic-l/conversations/messages/12280;_ylc=X3oDMTJxc2JhYzY1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzExNjQzNjI3BG1zZ0lkAzEyMjgwBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTQyNjg4NDM5Mw--?act=reply&messageNum=12280">Reply via web post</a>
</td>
<td>•</td>
<td style="font-size: 12px; font-family: arial; padding: 7px 5px 5px;" >
<a href="mailto:anheropl0x@gmail.com?subject=Re%3A%20%5Bgothic-l%5D%20The%20Gothic%20equivalent%20to%20the%20Anglo-Saxon%20Thegn" style="text-decoration: none; color: #2D50FD;">
Reply to sender </a>
</td>
<td>•</td>
<td style="font-size: 12px; font-family: arial; padding: 7px 5px 5px;">
<a href="mailto:gothic-l@yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20%5Bgothic-l%5D%20The%20Gothic%20equivalent%20to%20the%20Anglo-Saxon%20Thegn" style="text-decoration: none; color: #2D50FD">
Reply to group </a>
</td>
<td>•</td>
<td style="font-size: 12px; font-family: arial; padding: 7px 5px 5px;" >
<a href="https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/gothic-l/conversations/newtopic;_ylc=X3oDMTJlbWhqbGR0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzExNjQzNjI3BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTQyNjg4NDM5Mw--" style="text-decoration: none; color: #2D50FD">Start a New Topic</a>
</td>
<td>•</td>
<td style="font-size: 12px; font-family: arial; padding: 7px 5px 5px;color: #2D50FD;" >
<a href="https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/gothic-l/conversations/topics/12269;_ylc=X3oDMTM2N2M4ODdvBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzExNjQzNjI3BG1zZ0lkAzEyMjgwBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTQyNjg4NDM5MwR0cGNJZAMxMjI2OQ--" style="text-decoration: none; color: #2D50FD;">Messages in this topic</a>
(12)
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<!------- Start Nav Bar ------>
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
<div id="ygrp-grfd" style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px; padding: 15px 0;">
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
You are a member of the Gothic-L list. To unsubscribe, send a blank email to <gothic-l-unsubscribe@egroups.com>.
<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
</div>
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<div id="ygrp-vital" style="background-color: #f2f2f2; font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10px; margin-bottom: 10px; padding: 10px;">
<span id="vithd" style="font-weight: bold; color: #333; text-transform: uppercase; "><a href="https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/gothic-l/info;_ylc=X3oDMTJlNTM0bnVyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzExNjQzNjI3BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTQyNjg4NDM5Mw--" style="text-decoration: none;">Visit Your Group</a></span>
<ul style="list-style-type: none; margin: 0; padding: 0; display: inline;">
</ul>
</div>
<div id="ft" style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 11px; margin-top: 5px; padding: 0 2px 0 0; clear: both;">
<a href="https://groups.yahoo.com/neo;_ylc=X3oDMTJkdHFyb3ZnBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzEwMjA1OTgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzExNjQzNjI3BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxNDI2ODg0Mzkz" style="float: left;"><img src="http://l.yimg.com/ru/static/images/yg/img/email/new_logo/logo-groups-137x15.png" height="15" width="137" alt="Yahoo! Groups" style="border: 0;"/></a>
<div style="color: #747575; float: right;"> • <a href="https://info.yahoo.com/privacy/us/yahoo/groups/details.html" style="text-decoration: none;">Privacy</a> • <a href="mailto:gothic-l-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe" style="text-decoration: none;">Unsubscribe</a> • <a href="https://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/terms/" style="text-decoration: none;">Terms of Use</a> </div>
</div>
<br>
<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
</div> <!-- ygrp-msg -->
<!-- Sponsor -->
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<div id="ygrp-sponsor" style="width:160px; float:right; clear:none; margin:0 0 25px 0; background: #fff;">
<!-- Start Recommendations -->
<div id="ygrp-reco">
</div>
<!-- End Recommendations -->
</div> <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
<div style="clear:both; color: #FFF; font-size:1px;">.</div>
</div>
<img src="http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=1020598/grpspId=1711643627/msgId=12280/stime=1426884393" width="1" height="1"> <br>
<img src="http://y.analytics.yahoo.com/fpc.pl?ywarid=515FB27823A7407E&a=10001310322279&js=no&resp=img" width="1" height="1">
<div style="color: #fff; height: 0;">__,_._,___</div>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~-->
</body>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~-->
<head>
<style type="text/css">
<!--
#ygrp-mkp {
border: 1px solid #d8d8d8;
font-family: Arial;
margin: 10px 0;
padding: 0 10px;
}
#ygrp-mkp hr {
border: 1px solid #d8d8d8;
}
#ygrp-mkp #hd {
color: #628c2a;
font-size: 85%;
font-weight: 700;
line-height: 122%;
margin: 10px 0;
}
#ygrp-mkp #ads {
margin-bottom: 10px;
}
#ygrp-mkp .ad {
padding: 0 0;
}
#ygrp-mkp .ad p {
margin: 0;
}
#ygrp-mkp .ad a {
color: #0000ff;
text-decoration: none;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc {
font-family: Arial;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc #hd {
margin: 10px 0px;
font-weight: 700;
font-size: 78%;
line-height: 122%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc .ad {
margin-bottom: 10px;
padding: 0 0;
}
#actions {
font-family: Verdana;
font-size: 11px;
padding: 10px 0;
}
#activity {
background-color: #e0ecee;
float: left;
font-family: Verdana;
font-size: 10px;
padding: 10px;
}
#activity span {
font-weight: 700;
}
#activity span:first-child {
text-transform: uppercase;
}
#activity span a {
color: #5085b6;
text-decoration: none;
}
#activity span span {
color: #ff7900;
}
#activity span .underline {
text-decoration: underline;
}
.attach {
clear: both;
display: table;
font-family: Arial;
font-size: 12px;
padding: 10px 0;
width: 400px;
}
.attach div a {
text-decoration: none;
}
.attach img {
border: none;
padding-right: 5px;
}
.attach label {
display: block;
margin-bottom: 5px;
}
.attach label a {
text-decoration: none;
}
blockquote {
margin: 0 0 0 4px;
}
.bold {
font-family: Arial;
font-size: 13px;
font-weight: 700;
}
.bold a {
text-decoration: none;
}
dd.last p a {
font-family: Verdana;
font-weight: 700;
}
dd.last p span {
margin-right: 10px;
font-family: Verdana;
font-weight: 700;
}
dd.last p span.yshortcuts {
margin-right: 0;
}
div.attach-table div div a {
text-decoration: none;
}
div.attach-table {
width: 400px;
}
div.file-title a, div.file-title a:active, div.file-title a:hover, div.file-title a:visited {
text-decoration: none;
}
div.photo-title a, div.photo-title a:active, div.photo-title a:hover, div.photo-title a:visited {
text-decoration: none;
}
div#ygrp-mlmsg #ygrp-msg p a span.yshortcuts {
font-family: Verdana;
font-size: 10px;
font-weight: normal;
}
.green {
color: #628c2a;
}
.MsoNormal {
margin: 0 0 0 0;
}
o {
font-size: 0;
}
#photos div {
float: left;
width: 72px;
}
#photos div div {
border: 1px solid #666666;
height: 62px;
overflow: hidden;
width: 62px;
}
#photos div label {
color: #666666;
font-size: 10px;
overflow: hidden;
text-align: center;
white-space: nowrap;
width: 64px;
}
#reco-category {
font-size: 77%;
}
#reco-desc {
font-size: 77%;
}
.replbq {
margin: 4px;
}
#ygrp-actbar div a:first-child {
/* border-right: 0px solid #000;*/
margin-right: 2px;
padding-right: 5px;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg {
font-size: 13px;
font-family: Arial, helvetica,clean, sans-serif;
*font-size: small;
*font: x-small;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg table {
font-size: inherit;
font: 100%;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {
font: 99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {
font:115% monospace;
*font-size:100%;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg * {
line-height: 1.22em;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg #logo {
padding-bottom: 10px;
}
#ygrp-msg p a {
font-family: Verdana;
}
#ygrp-msg p#attach-count span {
color: #1E66AE;
font-weight: 700;
}
#ygrp-reco #reco-head {
color: #ff7900;
font-weight: 700;
}
#ygrp-reco {
margin-bottom: 20px;
padding: 0px;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov li a {
font-size: 130%;
text-decoration: none;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov li {
font-size: 77%;
list-style-type: square;
padding: 6px 0;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov ul {
margin: 0;
padding: 0 0 0 8px;
}
#ygrp-text {
font-family: Georgia;
}
#ygrp-text p {
margin: 0 0 1em 0;
}
#ygrp-text tt {
font-size: 120%;
}
#ygrp-vital ul li:last-child {
border-right: none !important;
}
-->
</style>
</head>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~-->
</html>
<!-- end group email -->