Reduplication Histling-l Digest, Vol 25, Issue 7

Wed Feb 11 23:22:49 UTC 2009

If isolates count (since they have no parents who may have had  
reduplication), then Japanese. Although not everyone will consider it  
an isolate.

< I was wondering if anyone had any examples of languages which have  
developed a reduplication system when the parent language didn't have  
a reduplication system >

<><><><><><><><><>
Mark Irwin

On 12 Feb 2009, at 08:12, Paul Hopper wrote:

> It isn't hard to come up with examples of languages that have lost  
> reduplication, but wasn't the original question concerned with  
> languages _developing new_ reduplicating systems?
>
> The tense-aspect reduplications of Latin, Gothic, Greek etc. are  
> surely of Indo-European date, and so don't count as examples of  
> newly developed reduplication, the theme of the question. Nor do  
> isolated examples like English 'ping-pong', German 'beben'. Perhaps  
> someone can give us examples of creoles that have developed  
> (re)duplication?
>
> I seem to remember somewhere someone making a distinction between  
> (partial) _reduplication_ like Latin tetigi, Indonesian sesuatu  
> "some or other" and (whole) _duplication_ like Indonesian barang- 
> barang "different kinds of things" (barang='thing'), orang-orang  
> 'people'. There are many subtypes, and a biiiig literature.
>
> Paul Hopper
> ---------
>
>> Latin conjugations:  tango~tetegi; many Latin and Greek nouns and
>> adjectives
>>
>> âáñâáñoò being the best known; some Koine Greek verbs
>>
>>
>>
>> Scott Catledge
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: histling-l-bounces at mailman.rice.edu
>> [mailto:histling-l-bounces at mailman.rice.edu] On Behalf Of
>> histling-l-request at mailman.rice.edu Sent: Wednesday, February 11,  
>> 2009
>> 1:01 PM To: histling-l at mailman.rice.edu Subject: Histling-l Digest,  
>> Vol 25,
>> Issue 7
>>
>>
>>
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>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>
>>
>> 1. development of reduplication systems (John Kyle)
>>
>> 2. Re: development of reduplication systems (Paolo Ramat)
>>
>> 3.  development of reduplication systems (Jeff Roesler Stebbins)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> Message: 1
>>
>> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 12:17:51 -0600
>>
>> From: John Kyle <jhobartkyle at gmail.com>
>>
>> Subject: [Histling-l] development of reduplication systems
>>
>> To: Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu
>>
>> Message-ID:
>>
>> <5290124a0902101017x3a77fecau8f9d642ee270de88 at mail.gmail.com>
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>>
>>
>> I was wondering if anyone had any examples of languages which have
>> developed
>>
>> a reduplication system when the parent language didn't have a
>> reduplication
>>
>> system.  I've seen examples of languages which have lost  
>> reduplication
>> (and
>>
>> of course languages which have retained a reduplication system) but I
>> have
>>
>> not been able to find any examples of a reduplication system which
>> developed
>>
>> on its own.  If anyone could let me know of any references or  
>> examples, I
>>
>>
>> would gladly post a follow-up with the information.  Thank you.
>>
>>
>>
>> John Kyle
>>
>> jhobartkyle at gmail.com
>>
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>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> Message: 2
>>
>> Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 12:05:30 +0100
>>
>> From: "Paolo Ramat" <paoram at unipv.it>
>>
>> Subject: Re: [Histling-l] development of reduplication systems
>>
>> To: "John Kyle" <jhobartkyle at gmail.com>,  <Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu 
>> >
>>
>> Message-ID: <EE0767A046EA4D0793BB42FB8BA149CF at acerpaolo>
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear John,
>>
>> what exactly do you mean by "reduplication system"? I'm aware of many
>> languages having reduplication in their paradigms (e.g. the perfect  
>> tense
>> in Classical Greek --
>>
>> which later went lost in Byzantine and Modern Greek). But can we  
>> consider
>> Greek as a reduplication system language?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Prof. Paolo Ramat
>>
>> Istituto Universitario di Studi Superiori (IUSS)
>>
>> Responsabile della classe di Scienze Umane
>>
>> V.le Lungo Ticino Sforza 56, 27100 Pavia ? Italia
>>
>> Tel. +39 0382 375811 Fax +39 0382 375899
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> From: John Kyle
>>
>> To: Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu
>>
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 7:17 PM
>>
>> Subject: [Histling-l] development of reduplication systems
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I was wondering if anyone had any examples of languages which have
>> developed a reduplication system when the parent language didn't  
>> have a
>> reduplication system.  I've seen examples of languages which have  
>> lost
>> reduplication (and of course languages which have retained a
>> reduplication system) but I have not been able to find any examples  
>> of a
>> reduplication system which developed on its own.  If anyone could  
>> let me
>> know of any references or examples, I would gladly post a follow-up  
>> with
>> the information.  Thank you.
>>
>>
>>
>> John Kyle
>>
>> jhobartkyle at gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --- --
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Histling-l mailing list
>>
>> Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu
>>
>> https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l
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>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> Message: 3
>>
>> Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 07:22:53 -0700 (MST)
>>
>> From: Jeff Roesler Stebbins <Jeff.Stebbins at Colorado.EDU>
>>
>> Subject: [Histling-l]  development of reduplication systems
>>
>> To: Paolo Ramat <paoram at unipv.it>, John Kyle <jhobartkyle at gmail.com>,
>>
>> Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu
>>
>> Message-ID: <20090211072253.AKH37075 at superman.int.colorado.edu>
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>>
>>
>> Go to Google Scholar and type "Vietnamese reduplication"--you'll  
>> see a
>> lot about
>>
>> reduplication in VNese and several related languages.  We Westerners
>> might be prone to
>>
>> focus upon the consonants, but (as you can read in some of those  
>> papers)
>> VN's
>>
>> reduplication system also interacts a lot with its tonal system,  
>> which
>> has developed (and
>>
>> is still developing) independently of neighboring Sino-Tibetan and
>> Tai-Kadai tonal
>>
>> languages.
>>
>> Jeff Stebbins
>>
>> Univ. Colorado, Linguistics
>>
>> 719-660-6280
>>
>> - - - -
>>
>>
>>
>> "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep
>>
>> to gain what he cannot lose." (Elliot)
>>
>>
>>
>> ---- Original message ----
>>
>>
>>
>> Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 12:05:30 +0100
>>
>> From: "Paolo Ramat" <paoram at unipv.it>
>>
>> Subject: Re: [Histling-l] development of reduplication systems
>>
>> To: "John Kyle" <jhobartkyle at gmail.com>,<Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu>
>>
>>
>>
>> ?
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear John,
>>
>> what exactly do you mean by "reduplication system"?
>>
>> I'm aware of many languages having reduplication in their paradigms  
>> (e.g.
>> the
>>
>> perfect tense in Classical Greek --
>>
>> which later went lost in Byzantine and Modern
>>
>> Greek). But can we consider Greek as a reduplication system
>>
>> language?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Prof. Paolo Ramat
>>
>> Istituto Universitario di Studi Superiori
>>
>> (IUSS)
>>
>> Responsabile della classe di Scienze Umane
>>
>> V.le Lungo Ticino Sforza
>>
>> 56, 27100 Pavia ? Italia
>>
>> Tel. +39 0382 375811 Fax +39 0382 375899
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> From:
>>
>> John
>>
>> Kyle
>>
>> To: Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu
>>
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 7:17
>>
>> PM
>>
>> Subject: [Histling-l] development of
>>
>> reduplication systems
>>
>> I was wondering if anyone had any examples of languages which have
>>
>> developed a reduplication system when the parent language didn't  
>> have a
>>
>> reduplication system.  I've seen examples of languages which have  
>> lost
>>
>> reduplication (and of course languages which have retained a  
>> reduplication
>>
>>
>> system) but I have not been able to find any examples of a  
>> reduplication
>>
>> system which developed on its own.  If anyone could let me know of  
>> any
>>
>> references or examples, I would gladly post a follow-up with the
>>
>> information.  Thank you.
>>
>>
>>
>> John Kyle
>>
>> jhobartkyle at gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --- ----------
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Histling-l mailing
>>
>> list
>>
>> Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu
>>
>> https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l
>>
>>
>>
>>> ________________ >_______________________________________________
>>> Histling-l mailing
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>
> -- 
> Prof. Dr. Paul J. Hopper
> Senior Fellow
> Freiburg Institute for Advanced Studies
> Albert-Ludwigs-Universität Freiburg
> Albertstr. 19
> D-79104 Freiburg
> and
> Paul Mellon Distinguished Professor of Humanities
> Department of English
> Carnegie Mellon University
> Pittsburgh, PA 15213
>
> _______________________________________________
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