Histling-l Digest, Vol 25, Issue 9
Paul Hopper
hopper at cmu.edu
Thu Feb 12 04:39:58 UTC 2009
In standard Malay/Indonesian, reduplication as a marker of plurality is a recent innovation. Reduplication is not used in conjunction with numerals, for instance. However, reduplication is not itself new; only the plural sense is new. Earlier, reduplication had, and often still has, more expressive meanings such as "different kinds of", which may imply plurality and certainly licensed the fixing of the plural meaning. While the circumstances (presumably Western written language influence) are different, if it happened here couldn't it have happened in Afroasiatic too? I haven't seen the BSOAS paper, I'm afraid. Perhaps you deal with this question there.
Paul Hopper
> Re: reduplication
>
> I have something for you.
>
> Ratcliffe, Robert. 1996. "Drift and Noun Plural Reduplication in
> Afroasiatic." BSOAS LIX, part 2. pp. 297-311.
>
> In all cases where we have documentation reduplication as a plural
> marker, at least, is a secondary development in Afroasiatic. I hypothesize
> from this that reduplication as a plural marker is also a secondary
> development in those languages for which we don't have documentation, and
> thus not reconstructable for Proto-Afroasiatic, and I explain how I think
> this has developed. Of course for the vast majority of these languages we
> don't have documentation.
>
> R. Ratcliffe
>
> Tokyo ----- Original Message ----- From:
> <histling-l-request at mailman.rice.edu> To: <histling-l at mailman.rice.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 8:23 AM Subject: Histling-l Digest, Vol
> 25, Issue 9
>
>
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>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. development of reduplication (Peter Bakker) 2. Re: Reduplication
>> Histling-l Digest, Vol 25, Issue 7 (Paul Hopper) 3. Re: Reduplication
>> Histling-l Digest, Vol 25, Issue 7 (Mark Irwin)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1 Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 00:02:31 +0100 From: "Peter Bakker"
>> <linpb at hum.au.dk> Subject: [Histling-l] development of reduplication To:
>> histling-l at mailman.rice.edu Message-ID:
>> <fc.0075824e03420bbb3b9aca00f2400690.3420bea at fcmail.hum.au.dk>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> Many creoles have reduplication (but almost no pidgins). If the
>> lexifiers are the "parent languages", then creoles developed them,
>> because French, English, Dutch, Spanish, Portuguese, Arabic hardly have
>> productive reduplication. There is a book on the subject, you can order
>> it from: http://www.battlebridge.com/
>>
>> Twice as Meaningful Reduplication in Pidgins, Creoles, and Other Contact
>> Languages Edited by Silvia Kouwenberg, vi + 330 pages, map, index. ISBN
>> 1 903292 02 6. ?25 (Westminster Creolistics Series - 8)
>>
>> Peter Bakker
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was
>> scrubbed... URL:
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>> 12/24aff355/attachment-0001.html>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2 Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 18:12:30 -0500 (EST) From: "Paul
>> Hopper" <hopper at cmu.edu> Subject: Re: [Histling-l] Reduplication
>> Histling-l Digest, Vol 25, Issue 7 To: "Scott" <scat at cfl.rr.com> Cc:
>> histling-l at mailman.rice.edu Message-ID:
>> <52121.71.182.212.246.1234393950.squirrel at 71.182.212.246> Content-Type:
>> text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
>>
>> It isn't hard to come up with examples of languages that have lost
>> reduplication, but wasn't the original question concerned with
>> languages _developing new_ reduplicating systems?
>>
>> The tense-aspect reduplications of Latin, Gothic, Greek etc. are surely
>> of Indo-European date, and so don't count as examples of newly developed
>> reduplication, the theme of the question. Nor do isolated examples
>> like English 'ping-pong', German 'beben'. Perhaps someone can give us
>> examples of creoles that have developed (re)duplication?
>>
>> I seem to remember somewhere someone making a distinction between
>> (partial) _reduplication_ like Latin tetigi, Indonesian sesuatu "some
>> or other" and (whole) _duplication_ like Indonesian barang-barang
>> "different kinds of things" (barang='thing'), orang-orang 'people'.
>> There are many subtypes, and a biiiig literature.
>>
>> Paul Hopper ---------
>>
>>> Latin conjugations: tango~tetegi; many Latin and Greek nouns and
>>> adjectives
>>>
>>> ??????o? being the best known; some Koine Greek verbs
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Scott Catledge
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message----- From: histling-l-bounces at mailman.rice.edu
>>> [mailto:histling-l-bounces at mailman.rice.edu] On Behalf Of
>>> histling-l-request at mailman.rice.edu Sent: Wednesday, February 11,
>>> 2009 1:01 PM To: histling-l at mailman.rice.edu Subject: Histling-l
>>> Digest, Vol 25, Issue 7
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Send Histling-l mailing list submissions to
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Today's Topics:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 1. development of reduplication systems (John Kyle)
>>>
>>> 2. Re: development of reduplication systems (Paolo Ramat)
>>>
>>> 3. development of reduplication systems (Jeff Roesler Stebbins)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> -
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Message: 1
>>>
>>> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 12:17:51 -0600
>>>
>>> From: John Kyle <jhobartkyle at gmail.com>
>>>
>>> Subject: [Histling-l] development of reduplication systems
>>>
>>> To: Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu
>>>
>>> Message-ID:
>>>
>>> <5290124a0902101017x3a77fecau8f9d642ee270de88 at mail.gmail.com>
>>>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I was wondering if anyone had any examples of languages which have
>>> developed
>>>
>>> a reduplication system when the parent language didn't have a
>>> reduplication
>>>
>>> system. I've seen examples of languages which have lost
>>> reduplication (and
>>>
>>> of course languages which have retained a reduplication system) but I
>>> have
>>>
>>> not been able to find any examples of a reduplication system which
>>> developed
>>>
>>> on its own. If anyone could let me know of any references or
>>> examples, I
>>>
>>>
>>> would gladly post a follow-up with the information. Thank you.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> John Kyle
>>>
>>> jhobartkyle at gmail.com
>>>
>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>>
>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>>
>>> URL:
>>> <https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/private/histling-l/attachments/2009
>>> 0210 /b0 462c31/attachment-0001.html>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Message: 2
>>>
>>> Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 12:05:30 +0100
>>>
>>> From: "Paolo Ramat" <paoram at unipv.it>
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: [Histling-l] development of reduplication systems
>>>
>>> To: "John Kyle" <jhobartkyle at gmail.com>,
>>> <Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu>
>>>
>>> Message-ID: <EE0767A046EA4D0793BB42FB8BA149CF at acerpaolo>
>>>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear John,
>>>
>>> what exactly do you mean by "reduplication system"? I'm aware of many
>>> languages having reduplication in their paradigms (e.g. the perfect
>>> tense in Classical Greek --
>>>
>>> which later went lost in Byzantine and Modern Greek). But can we
>>> consider Greek as a reduplication system language?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Prof. Paolo Ramat
>>>
>>> Istituto Universitario di Studi Superiori (IUSS)
>>>
>>> Responsabile della classe di Scienze Umane
>>>
>>> V.le Lungo Ticino Sforza 56, 27100 Pavia ? Italia
>>>
>>> Tel. +39 0382 375811 Fax +39 0382 375899
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>
>>> From: John Kyle
>>>
>>> To: Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu
>>>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 7:17 PM
>>>
>>> Subject: [Histling-l] development of reduplication systems
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I was wondering if anyone had any examples of languages which have
>>> developed a reduplication system when the parent language didn't have
>>> a reduplication system. I've seen examples of languages which have
>>> lost reduplication (and of course languages which have retained a
>>> reduplication system) but I have not been able to find any examples
>>> of a reduplication system which developed on its own. If anyone could
>>> let me know of any references or examples, I would gladly post a
>>> follow-up with the information. Thank you.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> John Kyle
>>>
>>> jhobartkyle at gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ---- --- --
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> Histling-l mailing list
>>>
>>> Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu
>>>
>>> https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l
>>>
>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>>
>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>>
>>> URL:
>>> <https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/private/histling-l/attachments/2009
>>> 0211 /03 2f9b5f/attachment-0001.html>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Message: 3
>>>
>>> Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 07:22:53 -0700 (MST)
>>>
>>> From: Jeff Roesler Stebbins <Jeff.Stebbins at Colorado.EDU>
>>>
>>> Subject: [Histling-l] development of reduplication systems
>>>
>>> To: Paolo Ramat <paoram at unipv.it>, John Kyle <jhobartkyle at gmail.com>,
>>>
>>>
>>> Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu
>>>
>>> Message-ID: <20090211072253.AKH37075 at superman.int.colorado.edu>
>>>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Go to Google Scholar and type "Vietnamese reduplication"--you'll see
>>> a lot about
>>>
>>> reduplication in VNese and several related languages. We Westerners
>>> might be prone to
>>>
>>> focus upon the consonants, but (as you can read in some of those
>>> papers) VN's
>>>
>>> reduplication system also interacts a lot with its tonal system,
>>> which has developed (and
>>>
>>> is still developing) independently of neighboring Sino-Tibetan and
>>> Tai-Kadai tonal
>>>
>>> languages.
>>>
>>> Jeff Stebbins
>>>
>>> Univ. Colorado, Linguistics
>>>
>>> 719-660-6280
>>>
>>> - - - -
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep
>>>
>>> to gain what he cannot lose." (Elliot)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---- Original message ----
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 12:05:30 +0100
>>>
>>> From: "Paolo Ramat" <paoram at unipv.it>
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: [Histling-l] development of reduplication systems
>>>
>>> To: "John Kyle" <jhobartkyle at gmail.com>,<Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear John,
>>>
>>> what exactly do you mean by "reduplication system"?
>>>
>>> I'm aware of many languages having reduplication in their paradigms
>>> (e.g. the
>>>
>>> perfect tense in Classical Greek --
>>>
>>> which later went lost in Byzantine and Modern
>>>
>>> Greek). But can we consider Greek as a reduplication system
>>>
>>> language?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Prof. Paolo Ramat
>>>
>>> Istituto Universitario di Studi Superiori
>>>
>>> (IUSS)
>>>
>>> Responsabile della classe di Scienze Umane
>>>
>>> V.le Lungo Ticino Sforza
>>>
>>> 56, 27100 Pavia ? Italia
>>>
>>> Tel. +39 0382 375811 Fax +39 0382 375899
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>
>>> From:
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> Kyle
>>>
>>> To: Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu
>>>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 7:17
>>>
>>> PM
>>>
>>> Subject: [Histling-l] development of
>>>
>>> reduplication systems
>>>
>>> I was wondering if anyone had any examples of languages which have
>>>
>>> developed a reduplication system when the parent language didn't have
>>> a
>>>
>>> reduplication system. I've seen examples of languages which have
>>> lost
>>>
>>> reduplication (and of course languages which have retained a
>>> reduplication
>>>
>>>
>>> system) but I have not been able to find any examples of a
>>> reduplication
>>>
>>> system which developed on its own. If anyone could let me know of
>>> any
>>>
>>> references or examples, I would gladly post a follow-up with the
>>>
>>> information. Thank you.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> John Kyle
>>>
>>> jhobartkyle at gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ---- --- ----------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> Histling-l mailing
>>>
>>> list
>>>
>>> Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu
>>>
>>> https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> ________________ >_______________________________________________
>>>> Histling-l mailing
>>>
>>> list >Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu
>>>> https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l
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>>>
>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>>
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>>> 0211 /aa 6374b2/attachment-0001.html>
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>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> Histling-l mailing list
>>>
>>> Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu
>>>
>>> https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> End of Histling-l Digest, Vol 25, Issue 7
>>>
>>> *****************************************
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing
>>> list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu
>>> https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3 Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 08:22:49 +0900 From: Mark Irwin
>> <mark_irwin at mac.com> Subject: Re: [Histling-l] Reduplication Histling-l
>> Digest, Vol 25, Issue 7 To: histling-l at mailman.rice.edu Message-ID:
>> <BEF7B5B1-0DBA-4DD4-A453-D3C7EA3440C5 at mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain;
>> charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>>
>> If isolates count (since they have no parents who may have had
>> reduplication), then Japanese. Although not everyone will consider it an
>> isolate.
>>
>> < I was wondering if anyone had any examples of languages which have
>> developed a reduplication system when the parent language didn't have a
>> reduplication system >
>>
>> <><><><><><><><><> Mark Irwin
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12 Feb 2009, at 08:12, Paul Hopper wrote:
>>
>>> It isn't hard to come up with examples of languages that have lost
>>> reduplication, but wasn't the original question concerned with
>>> languages _developing new_ reduplicating systems?
>>>
>>> The tense-aspect reduplications of Latin, Gothic, Greek etc. are
>>> surely of Indo-European date, and so don't count as examples of newly
>>> developed reduplication, the theme of the question. Nor do isolated
>>> examples like English 'ping-pong', German 'beben'. Perhaps someone can
>>> give us examples of creoles that have developed (re)duplication?
>>>
>>> I seem to remember somewhere someone making a distinction between
>>> (partial) _reduplication_ like Latin tetigi, Indonesian sesuatu "some
>>> or other" and (whole) _duplication_ like Indonesian barang- barang
>>> "different kinds of things" (barang='thing'), orang-orang 'people'.
>>> There are many subtypes, and a biiiig literature.
>>>
>>> Paul Hopper ---------
>>>
>>>> Latin conjugations: tango~tetegi; many Latin and Greek nouns and
>>>> adjectives
>>>>
>>>> ??????o? being the best known; some Koine Greek verbs
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Scott Catledge
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message----- From:
>>>> histling-l-bounces at mailman.rice.edu
>>>> [mailto:histling-l-bounces at mailman.rice.edu] On Behalf Of
>>>> histling-l-request at mailman.rice.edu Sent: Wednesday, February 11,
>>>> 2009 1:01 PM To: histling-l at mailman.rice.edu Subject: Histling-l
>>>> Digest, Vol 25, Issue 7
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Send Histling-l mailing list submissions to
>>>>
>>>> histling-l at mailman.rice.edu
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>>>
>>>> https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l
>>>>
>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>>>
>>>> histling-l-request at mailman.rice.edu
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>>>
>>>> histling-l-owner at mailman.rice.edu
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> than "Re: Contents of Histling-l digest..."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Today's Topics:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1. development of reduplication systems (John Kyle)
>>>>
>>>> 2. Re: development of reduplication systems (Paolo Ramat)
>>>>
>>>> 3. development of reduplication systems (Jeff Roesler Stebbins)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> ---
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Message: 1
>>>>
>>>> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 12:17:51 -0600
>>>>
>>>> From: John Kyle <jhobartkyle at gmail.com>
>>>>
>>>> Subject: [Histling-l] development of reduplication systems
>>>>
>>>> To: Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu
>>>>
>>>> Message-ID:
>>>>
>>>> <5290124a0902101017x3a77fecau8f9d642ee270de88 at mail.gmail.com>
>>>>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I was wondering if anyone had any examples of languages which have
>>>> developed
>>>>
>>>> a reduplication system when the parent language didn't have a
>>>> reduplication
>>>>
>>>> system. I've seen examples of languages which have lost
>>>> reduplication (and
>>>>
>>>> of course languages which have retained a reduplication system) but
>>>> I have
>>>>
>>>> not been able to find any examples of a reduplication system which
>>>> developed
>>>>
>>>> on its own. If anyone could let me know of any references or
>>>> examples, I
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> would gladly post a follow-up with the information. Thank you.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> John Kyle
>>>>
>>>> jhobartkyle at gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>>>
>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>>>
>>>> URL:
>>>> <https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/private/histling-l/attachments/20
>>>> 090210 /b0 462c31/attachment-0001.html>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Message: 2
>>>>
>>>> Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 12:05:30 +0100
>>>>
>>>> From: "Paolo Ramat" <paoram at unipv.it>
>>>>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Histling-l] development of reduplication systems
>>>>
>>>> To: "John Kyle" <jhobartkyle at gmail.com>,
>>>> <Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Message-ID: <EE0767A046EA4D0793BB42FB8BA149CF at acerpaolo>
>>>>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dear John,
>>>>
>>>> what exactly do you mean by "reduplication system"? I'm aware of
>>>> many languages having reduplication in their paradigms (e.g. the
>>>> perfect tense in Classical Greek --
>>>>
>>>> which later went lost in Byzantine and Modern Greek). But can we
>>>> consider Greek as a reduplication system language?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Prof. Paolo Ramat
>>>>
>>>> Istituto Universitario di Studi Superiori (IUSS)
>>>>
>>>> Responsabile della classe di Scienze Umane
>>>>
>>>> V.le Lungo Ticino Sforza 56, 27100 Pavia ? Italia
>>>>
>>>> Tel. +39 0382 375811 Fax +39 0382 375899
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>
>>>> From: John Kyle
>>>>
>>>> To: Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu
>>>>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 7:17 PM
>>>>
>>>> Subject: [Histling-l] development of reduplication systems
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I was wondering if anyone had any examples of languages which have
>>>> developed a reduplication system when the parent language didn't
>>>> have a reduplication system. I've seen examples of languages which
>>>> have lost reduplication (and of course languages which have retained
>>>> a reduplication system) but I have not been able to find any
>>>> examples of a reduplication system which developed on its own. If
>>>> anyone could let me know of any references or examples, I would
>>>> gladly post a follow-up with the information. Thank you.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> John Kyle
>>>>
>>>> jhobartkyle at gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> ------ --- --
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> Histling-l mailing list
>>>>
>>>> Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu
>>>>
>>>> https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l
>>>>
>>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>>>
>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>>>
>>>> URL:
>>>> <https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/private/histling-l/attachments/20
>>>> 090211 /03 2f9b5f/attachment-0001.html>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Message: 3
>>>>
>>>> Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 07:22:53 -0700 (MST)
>>>>
>>>> From: Jeff Roesler Stebbins <Jeff.Stebbins at Colorado.EDU>
>>>>
>>>> Subject: [Histling-l] development of reduplication systems
>>>>
>>>> To: Paolo Ramat <paoram at unipv.it>, John Kyle
>>>> <jhobartkyle at gmail.com>,
>>>>
>>>> Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu
>>>>
>>>> Message-ID: <20090211072253.AKH37075 at superman.int.colorado.edu>
>>>>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Go to Google Scholar and type "Vietnamese reduplication"--you'll see
>>>> a lot about
>>>>
>>>> reduplication in VNese and several related languages. We
>>>> Westerners might be prone to
>>>>
>>>> focus upon the consonants, but (as you can read in some of those
>>>> papers) VN's
>>>>
>>>> reduplication system also interacts a lot with its tonal system,
>>>> which has developed (and
>>>>
>>>> is still developing) independently of neighboring Sino-Tibetan and
>>>> Tai-Kadai tonal
>>>>
>>>> languages.
>>>>
>>>> Jeff Stebbins
>>>>
>>>> Univ. Colorado, Linguistics
>>>>
>>>> 719-660-6280
>>>>
>>>> - - - -
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep
>>>>
>>>> to gain what he cannot lose." (Elliot)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---- Original message ----
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 12:05:30 +0100
>>>>
>>>> From: "Paolo Ramat" <paoram at unipv.it>
>>>>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Histling-l] development of reduplication systems
>>>>
>>>> To: "John Kyle"
>>>> <jhobartkyle at gmail.com>,<Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dear John,
>>>>
>>>> what exactly do you mean by "reduplication system"?
>>>>
>>>> I'm aware of many languages having reduplication in their paradigms
>>>> (e.g. the
>>>>
>>>> perfect tense in Classical Greek --
>>>>
>>>> which later went lost in Byzantine and Modern
>>>>
>>>> Greek). But can we consider Greek as a reduplication system
>>>>
>>>> language?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Prof. Paolo Ramat
>>>>
>>>> Istituto Universitario di Studi Superiori
>>>>
>>>> (IUSS)
>>>>
>>>> Responsabile della classe di Scienze Umane
>>>>
>>>> V.le Lungo Ticino Sforza
>>>>
>>>> 56, 27100 Pavia ? Italia
>>>>
>>>> Tel. +39 0382 375811 Fax +39 0382 375899
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>
>>>> From:
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>> Kyle
>>>>
>>>> To: Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu
>>>>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 7:17
>>>>
>>>> PM
>>>>
>>>> Subject: [Histling-l] development of
>>>>
>>>> reduplication systems
>>>>
>>>> I was wondering if anyone had any examples of languages which have
>>>>
>>>> developed a reduplication system when the parent language didn't
>>>> have a
>>>>
>>>> reduplication system. I've seen examples of languages which have
>>>> lost
>>>>
>>>> reduplication (and of course languages which have retained a
>>>> reduplication
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> system) but I have not been able to find any examples of a
>>>> reduplication
>>>>
>>>> system which developed on its own. If anyone could let me know of
>>>> any
>>>>
>>>> references or examples, I would gladly post a follow-up with the
>>>>
>>>> information. Thank you.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> John Kyle
>>>>
>>>> jhobartkyle at gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> ------ --- ----------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>> End of Histling-l Digest, Vol 25, Issue 7
>>>>
>>>> *****************************************
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>>>
>>>
>>> -- Prof. Dr. Paul J. Hopper Senior Fellow Freiburg Institute for
>>> Advanced Studies Albert-Ludwigs-Universit?t Freiburg Albertstr. 19
>>> D-79104 Freiburg and Paul Mellon Distinguished Professor of Humanities
>>> Department of English Carnegie Mellon University Pittsburgh, PA 15213
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing
>>> list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu
>>> https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l
>>
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>>
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>> End of Histling-l Digest, Vol 25, Issue 9
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>>
>
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--
Prof. Dr. Paul J. Hopper
Senior Fellow
Freiburg Institute for Advanced Studies
Albert-Ludwigs-Universität Freiburg
Albertstr. 19
D-79104 Freiburg
and
Paul Mellon Distinguished Professor of Humanities
Department of English
Carnegie Mellon University
Pittsburgh, PA 15213
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