From claire.bowern at yale.edu Sun Mar 6 00:46:49 2011 From: claire.bowern at yale.edu (Claire Bowern) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 19:46:49 -0500 Subject: Accent maintenance - summary In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Many thanks to everyone who responded on- and off-list to my query about accent maintenance, and sorry for the delay in compiling the summary. The phenomenon I was asking about (intentionally retaining L1 accent features in L2, despite fluency) seems to be extremely common. In addition to the identity issues I mentioned in the query (that is, retaining features to signal that one is a foreigner, or from a particular place), others brought up other sociolinguistic reasons, for example prestige views of the L1. Wolfgang Dressler also mentioned a case where someone neutralized front rounded vowels with back vowels in German, because he didn't want to sound Turkish. In terms of papers, Maicol Formentelli pointed me in the direction of work by Jennifer Jenkins: Jenkins, Jennifer (2007) English as a Lingua Franca: attitude and identity, OUP. Jenkins, Jennifer (2001) The phonology of English as an international language, OUP. Jenkins, Jennifer (2009) ‘(Un)pleasant? (In)correct? (Un)intelligible? ELF Speakers’ Perceptions of Their Accents’. In Anna Mauranen and Elina Ranta (eds.) English as a Lingua Franca: Studies and Findings. Newcastle upon Tyne: Cambridge Scholars Publishing. 10-36. Sandro Caruana also mentioned the case of Maltese speakers of English, where interdentals are pronounced as t and d despite proficiency. Thanks to the following people for replies. Rémy Viredaz Sheila Embleton Raymond Mougeon Ruth King Paolo Ramat Sandro Caruana Maicol Formentelli Roger Wright Jacqueline Visconti Jim Gair Wolfgang Dressler -- ----- Claire Bowern Associate Professor Department of Linguistics Yale University 370 Temple St New Haven, CT 06511 North American Dialects survey: http://pantheon.yale.edu/~clb3/NorthAmericanDialects/ -- ----- Claire Bowern Associate Professor Department of Linguistics Yale University 370 Temple St New Haven, CT 06511 North American Dialects survey: http://pantheon.yale.edu/~clb3/NorthAmericanDialects/ _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l From luraghi at unipv.it Thu Mar 10 22:01:52 2011 From: luraghi at unipv.it (Silvia Luraghi) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 23:01:52 +0100 Subject: Announcement - Pavia International Summer School for Indo-European Linguistics 19-25 September 2011 Message-ID: (Apologies for cross-posting) Pavia International Summer School for Indo-European Linguistics Pavia (Italy) 19-25 September 2011 General Description: The Pavia International Summer School for Indo-European Linguistics will be held from September 19 to September 25 at the University of Pavia. It will feature four courses, a lab on the use of corpora in historical linguistics and issues connected with annotation, a poster session in which students will be able to present their research, and will end with the International Conference “Historical-Comparative Linguistics in the 21st century” (see attached program). Attendance is limited to 20 participants. Courses and instructors: Course 1 = Sanskrit (Leonid Kulikov, Leiden; introduced by Silvia Luraghi, Pavia) Course 2 = Celtic (Ranko Matasovic, Zagreb; introduced by Elisa Roma, Pavia) Course 3 = Baltic (Daniel Petit, École Normale Supérieure Paris; introduced by Maria Cristina Bragone, Pavia) Course 4 = Tocharian (Gerd Carling, Uppsala; introduced by Pierluigi Cuzzolin, Bergamo) Lab (Dag Haug, Oslo; introduced by Elisabetta Jezek, Pavia) Preliminary Schedule: http://attach.matita.net/silvialuraghi/file/Bando%20Summer%20School.pdf Admission: We invite PhD students, as well as Postdocs and other young researchers to send us their application. Advanced MA students can also be considered for admission, based on a written statement of their motivation for attending the school. Applications will be examined by an international scientific committee, which will assign them a score. Participants will be admitted based on the score up to a maximum of 20. PhD students will be given precedence. As all courses are taught in English, a good knowledge of English is a basic requirement. Application deadline: June 30, 2011 ECTS: Participation in the Summer School, including active participation in the Poster Session and attendance of the International Conference, stands for 3 ECTS. At the end of the Summer School, every participant will receive a certificate, which will indicate the amount of awarded ECTS credits. Fees: Attendance to the Summer School is free of charge. We have reserved single rooms for participants at the Collegio Volta for the nights from Sunday 18 Sept (arrival) to Sunday 25 Sept (departure) at the total price of 350 Euros, which also includes lunch at the cafeteria (Mensa Fraccaro), one-week pass for public transportation, and invitation to all social events featured at the Conference. Scientific Committee: Marina Benedetti Pierluigi Cuzzolin Rosemarie Lühr Silvia Luraghi Ranko Matasovic Contact: Practical information and housing: Giorgio Iemmolo giorgio.iemmolo at unipv.it Erica Pinelli ericapinelli at alice.it Poster session: Alessandra Caviglia alessandra.caviglia at gmail.com Please send applications to: silvia.luraghi at unipv.it ################################################################################ International Conference Historical-Comparative Linguistics in the 21st Century Preliminary program http://attach.matita.net/silvialuraghi/file/Humboldt%20Kolleg%20Program.pdf Silvia Luraghi Dipartimento di Linguistica Teorica e Applicata Università di Pavia Strada Nuova 65 I-27100 Pavia telef.: +39-0382-984685 fax: +39-0382-984487 silvia.luraghi at unipv.it http://lettere.unipv.it/diplinguistica/docenti.php?&id=68 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l From ritsuko at minpaku.ac.jp Mon Mar 14 12:51:06 2011 From: ritsuko at minpaku.ac.jp (KIKUSAWA, Ritsuko) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 21:51:06 +0900 Subject: The Effect of the Earthquake on the ICHL XX Venue Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, The Conference Organizers of the 20th International Conference on Historical Linguistics (ICHL XX) have been receiving messages showing sympathies toward those affected by the earthquake that took place in the Northern Japan on March 11, and would like to thank everyone for their consideration. We assure prospective participants that the Osaka area is little affected by the incident (we are more than 1000 km away from the area where the disaster took place); on this side of Japan, things have remained normal and airports and other public transportations are functioning as usual. We understand that the situation in Tokyo is quickly getting back to normal as well. We do not see any reason why the conference has to be cancelled or relocated at this point, and if you are wondering about what to do, please go ahead and make plans to participate in the conference in Osaka. If you have any specific inquiries, please do not hesitate to contact us. We appreciate the fact that so many people's thoughts are with us. The Conference Organizers would like to also show deepest sympathies toward those who live in the affected region. We are hoping that the disaster control and recovery in the Tohoku-Kantoh Area will be smooth and effective. Thank you very much and looking forward to welcoming you in Osaka in July. KIKUSAWA Ritsuko Director, ICHL20 Organizing Committee Due to the recent earthquake in the Tohoku area on March 11, 2011, the Tokyo Electric Power Company has announced the possibility of temporary power outages until full power can be restored to the affected areas. It is possible, therefore, that the ICHLXX website may be temporarily out of service during the blackout. If you cannot access the website, please try again after a few hours. ================================================= KIKUSAWA Ritsuko Ph.D. National Museum of Ethnology, Japan The Graduate University for Advanced Studies ritsuko at minpaku.ac.jp The 20th International Conference on Historical Linguistics, to be held for the first time in Asia in July 2011. See http://www.ichl2011.com/ ================================================= _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l From ritsuko at minpaku.ac.jp Wed Mar 23 21:11:47 2011 From: ritsuko at minpaku.ac.jp (KIKUSAWA, Ritsuko) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 06:11:47 +0900 Subject: Rescheduling/relocation of the ICHL XX NOT considered at this point Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, I'm sending out this note in response to several inquiries we have recently received about possible relocation or rescheduling of the conference. Osaka has been little affected by the earthquake, tsunami, or radioactivity, and the local Organizing Committee (who are all living a normal life in Osaka, travelling periodically to Tokyo, trying to do what we can do for those who live in affected areas) see no necessity of considering the relocation or rescheduling of the conference for the moment. However, we have decided to extend the early registration deadline by one month despite the disadvantages that will result in the organizing procedure. The decision was made considering the responses of foreign governments and universities that have advised their citizens/employees not to visit Japan. This is a precautionary measure, however, it makes it impossible for some people to officially register for the conference. We should probably note here that some countries have decided to temporarily move their embassies away from the Tokyo area, and have chosen Osaka as their relocation site, apparently considering that this city is unlikely to be affected by the problems in the north. The Japanese population, including us, are carefully monitoring the situation for any developments that may affect us. We know also that our conference is still four months away and any problems that may arise in the near future should be well taken care of before then. I thank you again for the messages with supports and encouragements we have continuously been receiving since the incident. I hope all of you for now join us as we calmly watch how the situation with the nuclear plants develops (or rather, improves) in the next few weeks. And again, I would like to express my sincere condolences for those who live in the affected areas. KIKUSAWA Ritsuko Director, ICHL20 Organizing Committee │ It is just over 600 km between Fukushima and Osaka as the crow flies. │ For those who are interested, the reading of environmental radioactivity levels is available in English at the following website of the Japanese Ministry of Education: http://www.mext.go.jp/english/radioactivity_level/detail/1303986.htm (Listed by prefectures; organized from the north to the south) ================================================= KIKUSAWA Ritsuko Ph.D. National Museum of Ethnology, Japan The Graduate University for Advanced Studies ritsuko at minpaku.ac.jp The 20th International Conference on Historical Linguistics, to be held for the first time in Asia in July 2011. See http://www.ichl2011.com/ ================================================= _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l From e-ching.ng at yale.edu Fri Mar 25 05:01:02 2011 From: e-ching.ng at yale.edu (E-Ching Ng) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 01:01:02 -0400 Subject: Front rounded vowel question Message-ID: Dear all, I'm looking for languages which lost front rounded vowels, e.g. German /y/ > Yiddish /i/. So far I've got Old > Middle English, OHG > Yiddish, French > creoles. If you know of other languages with front rounded vowels and descendants, I would be very grateful. I will of course post a summary to the list. Hopefully, E-Ching ___________________________________ E-Ching Ng Department of Linguistics, Yale University http://pantheon.yale.edu/~en27/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l From pekka.sammallahti at oulu.fi Fri Mar 25 06:48:08 2011 From: pekka.sammallahti at oulu.fi (Pekka Sammallahti) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 08:48:08 +0200 Subject: Front rounded vowel question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Uralic: Livonian (Baltic Finnic) Saami lgs (the southernmost lgs developed secondary üs) Manysi (Tavda dialect through velarization, others through lowering to low vowels) Permic lgs (through velarization) Proto-Samoyedic (Proto-Samoyed developed a secondary *ü which was unrounded in Nganasan and velarized in Enets and Nenets) Pekka Sammallahti Quoting E-Ching Ng : > Dear all, > > I'm looking for languages which lost front rounded vowels, e.g. German /y/ > > Yiddish /i/. So far I've got Old > Middle English, OHG > Yiddish, French > > creoles. If you know of other languages with front rounded vowels and > descendants, I would be very grateful. I will of course post a summary to > the list. > > Hopefully, > E-Ching > > ___________________________________ > > E-Ching Ng > Department of Linguistics, Yale University > http://pantheon.yale.edu/~en27/ > _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l From peter.trudgill at unifr.ch Fri Mar 25 08:03:40 2011 From: peter.trudgill at unifr.ch (Peter Trudgill) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 08:03:40 +0000 Subject: Front rounded vowel question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Greek and Icelandic are other languages which used to have front rounded vowels and no longer do. At 06:01 +0100 25/3/11, E-Ching Ng wrote: >Dear all, > >I'm looking for languages which lost front rounded vowels, e.g. >German /y/ > Yiddish /i/. So far I've got Old > Middle English, >OHG > Yiddish, French > creoles. If you know of other languages with >front rounded vowels and descendants, I would be very grateful. I >will of course post a summary to the list. > >Hopefully, >E-Ching > >___________________________________ > >E-Ching Ng >Department of Linguistics, Yale University >http://pantheon.yale.edu/~en27/ > >Content-Type: text/plain; name="ATT00001.txt" >Content-Description: ATT00001.txt >Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ATT00001.txt"; size=221; > creation-date="Fri, 25 Mar 2011 05:01:21 GMT"; > modification-date="Fri, 25 Mar 2011 05:01:21 GMT" > >Attachment converted: Macintosh HD:ATT00001 72.txt (TEXT/ttxt) (001B47E7) -- __________________________________________ Peter Trudgill FBA Prof. of Sociolinguistics, Agder Univ., N Adjunct Prof., RCLT, La Trobe Univ., AU Prof. Emeritus of Eng. Linguistics, Fribourg Univ, CH Hon. Prof. of Sociolinguistics, UEA, Norwich, UK Forthcoming book: Sociolinguistic typology: social determinants of linguistic structure and complexity. OUP Oct/Nov 2011. __________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l From johanna.laakso at univie.ac.at Fri Mar 25 08:25:36 2011 From: johanna.laakso at univie.ac.at (Johanna Laakso) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 09:25:36 +0100 Subject: Front rounded vowel question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Just to add to Pekka Sammallahti's comment: The loss of ü and ö in Livonian was a fairly recent contact-induced substitution (in the early 20th century, old speakers had [ü] and [ö], and they were used in the orthography of the Livonian literary language between the two world wars). That is, it seems to be a sudden adaptation into the phonetics of Latvian, which does not have front rounded vowels. Thus, the loss of front rounded vowels in Livonian is perhaps not so very different from the contact-induced substitutions (ö > e, ü > i) which seem to have taken place in some Baltic German varieties (spoken by Latvians) and in the traditional Bohemian variety of German ("behmakeln" or the "Czech accent" in German; Czech also lacks front rounded vowels). Best JL -- Univ.Prof. Dr. Johanna Laakso Universität Wien, Institut für Europäische und Vergleichende Sprach- und Literaturwissenschaft (EVSL) Abteilung Finno-Ugristik Campus AAKH Spitalgasse 2-4 Hof 7 A-1090 Wien johanna.laakso at univie.ac.at • http://homepage.univie.ac.at/Johanna.Laakso/ Project ELDIA: http://www.eldia-project.org/ E-Ching Ng kirjoitti 25.3.2011 kello 6.01: > Dear all, > > I'm looking for languages which lost front rounded vowels, e.g. German /y/ > Yiddish /i/. So far I've got Old > Middle English, OHG > Yiddish, French > creoles. If you know of other languages with front rounded vowels and descendants, I would be very grateful. I will of course post a summary to the list. > > Hopefully, > E-Ching > > ___________________________________ > > E-Ching Ng > Department of Linguistics, Yale University > http://pantheon.yale.edu/~en27/ > _______________________________________________ > Histling-l mailing list > Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu > https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l From W.Schulze at lrz.uni-muenchen.de Fri Mar 25 09:57:33 2011 From: W.Schulze at lrz.uni-muenchen.de (Wolfgang Schulze) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 10:57:33 +0100 Subject: Front rounded vowel question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Just to add some further data: a. Geoffrey Hall has discussed [ü] > [u] etc. in his 1892 dissertation on "Rhaeto-Cisalpine dialects" (available from http://digidownload.libero.it/alpdn/TesiDiHull/TheLinguisticUnityOfNI&R.pdf). b. Most Bavarian dialects have [ü] > [i]; c. Low Prussian dialects of Low Saxon (Plauttdietsch) usually habe [ü] > [i] ~ [i:], e.g. (ü >i [gli:k] and ö > e [sche:n]); d. Kortlandt describes a process of "[d]elabialization of u, u-, uN, ü, u"-, üN [for Late Middle Slavic]. This development yielded y, y-, yN, i, i-, iN (...)". f. For Selice Romani (SW-Slovakia), Elšík 2007:23-24 maintains: "The only Hungarian phonemes to get phonologically adapted in Selice Romani loanwords are the front rounded vowels: the mid /ö/ [ø] and /o"/ [ø:] and the high /ü/ [y] and /u"/ [y:]. They are mostly replaced with their front unrounded counterparts, the mid /e/ [e ~ æ] and /é/ [æ:] and the high /i/ [i] and /í/ [i:], respectively, e.g. Hungarian csütörtök ‘Thursday’ > Selice Romani c(itertek-o and Hungarian ko"mu"ves ‘bricklayer’ > Selice Romani kémíveš-i" [cf. http://ulug.ff.cuni.cz/lingvistika/elsik/Elsik_Loanwords-in-Selice-Romani_071104.pdf]- e. Delabialization of [ü] > [i] and [ö] > [e] is common feature of the Nizh dialect of Udi (South East Caucasian), compare Varatshen dialect gölö > gele 'much/very', Vartashen dialect dürüst' > diris(t') 'upright, right, correct' etc. All the best, Wolfgang > > E-Ching Ng kirjoitti 25.3.2011 kello 6.01: > >> Dear all, >> >> I'm looking for languages which lost front rounded vowels, e.g. >> German /y/ > Yiddish /i/. So far I've got Old > Middle English, OHG > >> Yiddish, French > creoles. If you know of other languages with front >> rounded vowels and descendants, I would be very grateful. I will of >> course post a summary to the list. >> >> Hopefully, >> E-Ching -- ---------------------------------------------------------- *Prof. Dr. Wolfgang Schulze * ---------------------------------------------------------- Institut für Allgemeine & Typologische Sprachwissenschaft Dept. II / F 13 Ludwig-Maximilians-Universität München Ludwigstraße 25 D-80539 München Tel.: 0049-(0)89-2180-2486 (Secretary) 0049-(0)89-2180-5343 (Office) Fax: 0049-(0)89-2180-5345 Email: W.Schulze at lrz.uni-muenchen.de /// Wolfgang.Schulze at lmu.de Web: http://www.ats.lmu.de/index.html Personal homepage: http://www.wolfgangschulze.in-devir.com ---------------------------------------------------------- Diese e-Mail kann vertrauliche und/oder rechtlich geschützte Informationen enthalten. Wenn Sie nicht der richtige Adressat sind bzw. diese e-Mail irrtümlich erhalten haben, informieren Sie bitte umgehend den Absender und vernichten Sie diese e-Mail. Das unerlaubte Kopieren sowie das unbefugte Verwenden und Weitergeben vertraulicher e-Mails oder etwaiger, mit solchen e-Mails verbundener Anhänge im Ganzen oder in Teilen ist nicht gestattet. Ferner wird die Haftung für jeglichen Verlust oder Schaden, insbesondere durch virenbefallene e-Mails ausgeschlossen. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l From W.Schulze at lrz.uni-muenchen.de Fri Mar 25 10:08:32 2011 From: W.Schulze at lrz.uni-muenchen.de (Wolfgang Schulze) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 11:08:32 +0100 Subject: Front rounded vowel question /correction In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sorry, there had been two typos in the first reference: > a. Geoffrey Hall has discussed [ü] > [u] etc. in his 1892 dissertation > on "Rhaeto-Cisalpine dialects" (available from > http://digidownload.libero.it/alpdn/TesiDiHull/TheLinguisticUnityOfNI&R.pdf). > Naturally, the authors' name is "Geoffrey Stephen Hull", and the dissertation is from 1982...;-) Please except my excuse and best wishes, Wolfgang > > E-Ching Ng kirjoitti 25.3.2011 kello 6.01: > >> Dear all, >> >> I'm looking for languages which lost front rounded vowels, e.g. >> German /y/ > Yiddish /i/. So far I've got Old > Middle English, OHG > >> Yiddish, French > creoles. If you know of other languages with front >> rounded vowels and descendants, I would be very grateful. I will of >> course post a summary to the list. >> >> Hopefully, >> E-Ching -- ---------------------------------------------------------- *Prof. Dr. Wolfgang Schulze * ---------------------------------------------------------- Institut für Allgemeine & Typologische Sprachwissenschaft Dept. II / F 13 Ludwig-Maximilians-Universität München Ludwigstraße 25 D-80539 München Tel.: 0049-(0)89-2180-2486 (Secretary) 0049-(0)89-2180-5343 (Office) Fax: 0049-(0)89-2180-5345 Email: W.Schulze at lrz.uni-muenchen.de /// Wolfgang.Schulze at lmu.de Web: http://www.ats.lmu.de/index.html Personal homepage: http://www.wolfgangschulze.in-devir.com ---------------------------------------------------------- Diese e-Mail kann vertrauliche und/oder rechtlich geschützte Informationen enthalten. Wenn Sie nicht der richtige Adressat sind bzw. diese e-Mail irrtümlich erhalten haben, informieren Sie bitte umgehend den Absender und vernichten Sie diese e-Mail. Das unerlaubte Kopieren sowie das unbefugte Verwenden und Weitergeben vertraulicher e-Mails oder etwaiger, mit solchen e-Mails verbundener Anhänge im Ganzen oder in Teilen ist nicht gestattet. Ferner wird die Haftung für jeglichen Verlust oder Schaden, insbesondere durch virenbefallene e-Mails ausgeschlossen. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l From peter.trudgill at unifr.ch Fri Mar 25 11:52:00 2011 From: peter.trudgill at unifr.ch (Peter Trudgill) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 11:52:00 +0000 Subject: Front rounded vowel question In-Reply-To: <5E9FD0D28E107D43B34827E37659E6000FE315@MAILSERVER-03.hq.int.unesco.org> Message-ID: The question was about which languages had LOST font rounded vowels, not which languages curently have them, I thought. At 11:46 +0100 25/3/11, Hewitt, Stephen wrote: >Sorry, not strictly true about Icelandic, even >if historic /y/ and <ö> /ø/ are now /?/ >and <æ> /ai/. However, there are still front >rounded vowels (admittedly of different origin) >in the phoneme inventory: > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icelandic_phonology#Vowels > > >Best regards > >Steve Hewitt >30 rue Charles Baudelaire >75012 PARIS >>France >+00.33/-0 1.45.68.06.08 work >+00.33/-0 1.46.28.89.16 home >+00.33/-0 6.32.13.79.42 mobile >s.hewitt at unesco.org > > > >From: Peter Trudgill [mailto:peter.trudgill at unifr.ch] >Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 9:04 AM >To: histling-l >Subject: Re: [Histling-l] Front rounded vowel question > >Greek and Icelandic are other languages which >used to have front rounded vowels and no longer >do. > > >At 06:01 +0100 25/3/11, E-Ching Ng wrote: > >>Dear all, >> >>I'm looking for languages which lost front >>rounded vowels, e.g. German /y/ > Yiddish /i/. >>So far I've got Old > Middle English, OHG > >>Yiddish, French > creoles. If you know of other >>languages with front rounded vowels and >>descendants, I would be very grateful. I will >>of course post a summary to the list. >> >>Hopefully, >>E-Ching >> >>___________________________________ >> >>E-Ching Ng >>Department of Linguistics, Yale University >>http://pantheon.yale.edu/~en27/ >> >> >>Content-Type: text/plain; name="ATT00001.txt" >>Content-Description: ATT00001.txt >>Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ATT00001.txt"; size=221; >> creation-date="Fri, 25 Mar 2011 05:01:21 GMT"; >> modification-date="Fri, 25 Mar 2011 05:01:21 GMT" >> >>Attachment converted: Macintosh HD:ATT00001 72.txt (TEXT/ttxt) (001B47E7) >> > > >-- >__________________________________________ > >Peter Trudgill FBA >Prof. of Sociolinguistics, Agder Univ., N >Adjunct Prof., RCLT, La Trobe Univ., AU >Prof. Emeritus of Eng. Linguistics, Fribourg Univ, CH >Hon. Prof. of Sociolinguistics, UEA, Norwich, UK > >Forthcoming book: Sociolinguistic typology: >social determinants of linguistic structure and >complexity. OUP Oct/Nov 2011. >__________________________________________ -- __________________________________________ Peter Trudgill FBA Prof. of Sociolinguistics, Agder Univ., N Adjunct Prof., RCLT, La Trobe Univ., AU Prof. Emeritus of Eng. Linguistics, Fribourg Univ, CH Hon. Prof. of Sociolinguistics, UEA, Norwich, UK Forthcoming book: Sociolinguistic typology: social determinants of linguistic structure and complexity. OUP Oct/Nov 2011. __________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l From epalancar at hotmail.com Fri Mar 25 11:57:13 2011 From: epalancar at hotmail.com (Enrique L. Palancar) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 11:57:13 +0000 Subject: Front rounded vowel question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear E-Ching, You may now this already, but I thought a precision about English was desirable as Middle English is often taken as being a unitary system. The Old English > Middle English unrounding from /y/ > /i/ only occurred in the Northern and East-Midlands dialects (in Kentish, the historical reflex is already found as /e/). In the city of London there was a great deal of variation, but eventually it was resolved to favoring the East Middlands pronunciation, with isolated words from other dialects, in spelling, pronunciation or both, e.g. - Kentish spelling and pronunciation: "merry", "knell"- Southern spelling, but East-Midlands pronunciation: "build", "busy"- Southern spelling, but Kentish pronunciation: in both the verb "to bury" and the stem in compounds such as "Canterbury"- Southern spelling and pronunciation, but unrounded to /u/: "lust" (the current pronunciation comes from an unrounding and lowering that happened later seen today in most dialects including the standard) or "worse" (with central vowel of a later period). Very best,Enrique Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 01:01:02 -0400 From: e-ching.ng at yale.edu To: histling-l at mailman.rice.edu Subject: [Histling-l] Front rounded vowel question Dear all, I'm looking for languages which lost front rounded vowels, e.g. German /y/ > Yiddish /i/. So far I've got Old > Middle English, OHG > Yiddish, French > creoles. If you know of other languages with front rounded vowels and descendants, I would be very grateful. I will of course post a summary to the list. Hopefully, E-Ching ___________________________________ E-Ching Ng Department of Linguistics, Yale University http://pantheon.yale.edu/~en27/ _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l From ylfenn at earthlink.net Sat Mar 26 08:27:55 2011 From: ylfenn at earthlink.net (Martin Huld) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 01:27:55 -0700 Subject: Front rounded vowel question Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l From sashavovin at gmail.com Sun Mar 27 09:42:45 2011 From: sashavovin at gmail.com (Alexander Vovin) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 23:42:45 -1000 Subject: Front rounded vowel question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Middle Mongolian /y/ and /o"/ became /u/ and /IPA omega/ in modern Khalkha Mongolian, Chuvash reflexes of proto-Turkic *y and *o" are extremely complex, *y is preserved in few cases, but in most cases it and *o" in all cases are replaced by different vowels. Alexander Vovin Professor of East Asian Languages Department of East Asian Languages and Literatures University of Hawai'i at Manoa, USA ======================== iustitiam magni facite, infirmos protegite On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 7:01 PM, E-Ching Ng wrote: > Dear all, > > I'm looking for languages which lost front rounded vowels, e.g. German /y/ > > Yiddish /i/. So far I've got Old > Middle English, OHG > Yiddish, French > > creoles. If you know of other languages with front rounded vowels and > descendants, I would be very grateful. I will of course post a summary to > the list. > > Hopefully, > E-Ching > > ___________________________________ > > E-Ching Ng > Department of Linguistics, Yale University > http://pantheon.yale.edu/~en27/ > > _______________________________________________ > Histling-l mailing list > Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu > https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l > > _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l From c.j.rapold at hum.leidenuniv.nl Tue Mar 29 13:37:06 2011 From: c.j.rapold at hum.leidenuniv.nl (Christian Rapold) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 15:37:06 +0200 Subject: Histling-l Digest, Vol 47, Issue 9 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Older (and still Standard) Afrikaans /y/ and /ö (rounded e)/ became / i/ and /e/ respectively in some varieties. Cheers, Christian Rapold On Mar 27, 2011, at 7:00 PM, histling-l-request at mailman.rice.edu wrote: > Send Histling-l mailing list submissions to > histling-l at mailman.rice.edu > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > histling-l-request at mailman.rice.edu > > You can reach the person managing the list at > histling-l-owner at mailman.rice.edu > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Histling-l digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Front rounded vowel question (Alexander Vovin) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 23:42:45 -1000 > From: Alexander Vovin > Subject: Re: [Histling-l] Front rounded vowel question > To: E-Ching Ng > Cc: histling-l > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Middle Mongolian /y/ and /o"/ became /u/ and /IPA omega/ in modern > Khalkha Mongolian, Chuvash reflexes of proto-Turkic *y and *o" are > extremely complex, *y is preserved in few cases, but in most cases it > and *o" in all cases are replaced by different vowels. > > Alexander Vovin > Professor of East Asian Languages > Department of East Asian Languages and Literatures > University of Hawai'i at Manoa, USA > ======================== > iustitiam magni facite, infirmos protegite > > > On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 7:01 PM, E-Ching Ng > wrote: >> Dear all, >> >> I'm looking for languages which lost front rounded vowels, e.g. >> German /y/ > >> Yiddish /i/. So far I've got Old > Middle English, OHG > Yiddish, >> French > >> creoles. If you know of other languages with front rounded vowels and >> descendants, I would be very grateful. I will of course post a >> summary to >> the list. >> >> Hopefully, >> E-Ching >> >> ___________________________________ >> >> E-Ching Ng >> Department of Linguistics, Yale University >> http://pantheon.yale.edu/~en27/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Histling-l mailing list >> Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu >> https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l >> >> > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Histling-l mailing list > Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu > https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l > > > End of Histling-l Digest, Vol 47, Issue 9 > ***************************************** _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l From phonosemantics at earthlink.net Tue Mar 29 15:56:00 2011 From: phonosemantics at earthlink.net (jess tauber) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 11:56:00 -0400 Subject: l vs. s, sh? Message-ID: Hi folks. I've got a question- is historical connection between laterals and sibilants/shibilants common in the languages of the world? I've seen this type of thing as a sound symbolic alternation in a number of different families, but am ignorant about its appearance in comparisons when such alternations are not evident. In Interior Salish (Kuipers) *t'ak'l(a) refers to packing up provisions for a trip- the Yahgan equivalent is ta:kasa- Then I.S. (under root *tl'aq to prick, pin, skewer, stick in) there are forms that point to *tl'aq-ana7 for pocket, sack, bag. The Yahgan equivalent here is gvsanux a bag, sack, pocket. In both examples the Yahgan form has the sibilant where the Interior Salish has instead the lateral (either as phoneme or feature). Jess Tauber phonosemantics at earthlink.net _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l From Roger.Wright at liverpool.ac.uk Wed Mar 30 09:12:17 2011 From: Roger.Wright at liverpool.ac.uk (Wright, Roger) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 10:12:17 +0100 Subject: l vs. s, sh? In-Reply-To: <1070878.1301414161030.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Many Latin words beginning with [pl-] or [kl-] became Portuguese words beginning with the unvoiced palatal sibilant (a symbol I can't e-mail, but as in the "sh-" of English "shop"); e.g. Latin PLAGAM > Portuguese "chaga" ('wound'), CLAVEM > "chave" ('key'). The Castilian Spanish equivalents used to have the palatal lateral (roughly = the "lli" in English "million"); "llaga", "llave"; though these have since delateralized in many geographical areas. RW ________________________________________ From: histling-l-bounces at mailman.rice.edu [histling-l-bounces at mailman.rice.edu] On Behalf Of jess tauber [phonosemantics at earthlink.net] Sent: 29 March 2011 16:56 To: histling-l at mailman.rice.edu Subject: [Histling-l] l vs. s, sh? Hi folks. I've got a question- is historical connection between laterals and sibilants/shibilants common in the languages of the world? I've seen this type of thing as a sound symbolic alternation in a number of different families, but am ignorant about its appearance in comparisons when such alternations are not evident. In Interior Salish (Kuipers) *t'ak'l(a) refers to packing up provisions for a trip- the Yahgan equivalent is ta:kasa- Then I.S. (under root *tl'aq to prick, pin, skewer, stick in) there are forms that point to *tl'aq-ana7 for pocket, sack, bag. The Yahgan equivalent here is gvsanux a bag, sack, pocket. In both examples the Yahgan form has the sibilant where the Interior Salish has instead the lateral (either as phoneme or feature). Jess Tauber phonosemantics at earthlink.net _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l From pekka.sammallahti at oulu.fi Wed Mar 30 09:59:56 2011 From: pekka.sammallahti at oulu.fi (Pekka Sammallahti) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 12:59:56 +0300 Subject: l vs. s, sh? In-Reply-To: <1070878.1301414161030.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Proto-Finno-Ugric *s was replaced by the voiceless dental spirant *th (can't use the proper symbol) in Proto-Ugric and this was replaced by the voiceless dental lateral *L in Hanti/Ostyak. Its reflexes in present Hanti dialects are L-, j- and t-. Pekka Sammallahti PhD, Professor emeritus of Saami Language Giellagas Institute University of Oulu Finland Quoting jess tauber : > Hi folks. I've got a question- is historical connection between > laterals and sibilants/shibilants common in the languages of the > world? I've seen this type of thing as a sound symbolic alternation > in a number of different families, but am ignorant about its > appearance in comparisons when such alternations are not evident. > > In Interior Salish (Kuipers) *t'ak'l(a) refers to packing up > provisions for a trip- the Yahgan equivalent is ta:kasa- > > Then I.S. (under root *tl'aq to prick, pin, skewer, stick in) there > are forms that point to *tl'aq-ana7 for pocket, sack, bag. The > Yahgan equivalent here is gvsanux a bag, sack, pocket. > > In both examples the Yahgan form has the sibilant where the Interior > Salish has instead the lateral (either as phoneme or feature). > > Jess Tauber > phonosemantics at earthlink.net > _______________________________________________ > Histling-l mailing list > Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu > https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l > _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l From parkvall at ling.su.se Wed Mar 30 11:42:02 2011 From: parkvall at ling.su.se (Mikael Parkvall) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 13:42:02 +0200 Subject: l vs. s, sh? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I haven't systematicaly searched for sound changes, but whenever I come across a table or the like citing many of them at once, I usually save them in a file. Who knows what may come in handy some sunny day? For whatever it's worth, here are the cases I have in that note file which might fit the bill: * Proto-Algonquian ? Arapaho: /?/ ? /?/ (Picard 1994:4) * Proto-Algonquian ? Blackfoot: /l/ ? /?/ (Berman 2006:365) * Proto-Algonquian ? Woods Cree: /l/ ? /ð/ (Bakker 1996b:5) * proto-Austronesian ?? Basay: /l/ ? /c/ (Li 2004:367) * Proto-Min ? some Min dialects: /toneless l/ ? /?/ (Norman 1988:233) * Proto-Min ? some Western Min dialects: /toneless l/ ? /s/ (Norman 1988:233) * Proto-Ongamo-Maa ? Ngasa: /?/ ? /h/ (Vossen & Heine 1989:191-3) * proto-Quechua ? Argentinian Quechua of Santiago del Estero: /l^(j)/ ? /?/ (Adelaar 2004:204) [Citing from memory, doesn't this characterise Argentinian Spanish as well?] * proto-Quechua ? some Quechua varieties of Argentina and Ecuador: /l^(j)/ ? /?/ (Adelaar 2004:204) The IPA is in Unicode. I can provide the refs if anyone needs them. /mp -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l From dworkin at umich.edu Wed Mar 30 13:13:33 2011 From: dworkin at umich.edu (Dworkin, Steven) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 09:13:33 -0400 Subject: l vs. s, sh? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The Latin clusters [pl-]. [kl-] and on occasion [fl-] evolved in Old Portuguese to an voiceless palatal affricate represented by <> which later underwent deaffrication and became the unvoiced palatal sibilant of modern Portugese. The original affricate articulation is still preserved in some northern dialects. It is also possible that the palatal affricate was the original result of these Latin clusters in Hispano-Romance. Steve Dworkin On 3/30/11 5:12 AM, "Wright, Roger" wrote: Many Latin words beginning with [pl-] or [kl-] became Portuguese words beginning with the unvoiced palatal sibilant (a symbol I can't e-mail, but as in the "sh-" of English "shop"); e.g. Latin PLAGAM > Portuguese "chaga" ('wound'), CLAVEM > "chave" ('key'). The Castilian Spanish equivalents used to have the palatal lateral (roughly = the "lli" in English "million"); "llaga", "llave"; though these have since delateralized in many geographical areas. RW ________________________________________ From: histling-l-bounces at mailman.rice.edu [histling-l-bounces at mailman.rice.edu] On Behalf Of jess tauber [phonosemantics at earthlink.net] Sent: 29 March 2011 16:56 To: histling-l at mailman.rice.edu Subject: [Histling-l] l vs. s, sh? Hi folks. I've got a question- is historical connection between laterals and sibilants/shibilants common in the languages of the world? I've seen this type of thing as a sound symbolic alternation in a number of different families, but am ignorant about its appearance in comparisons when such alternations are not evident. In Interior Salish (Kuipers) *t'ak'l(a) refers to packing up provisions for a trip- the Yahgan equivalent is ta:kasa- Then I.S. (under root *tl'aq to prick, pin, skewer, stick in) there are forms that point to *tl'aq-ana7 for pocket, sack, bag. The Yahgan equivalent here is gvsanux a bag, sack, pocket. In both examples the Yahgan form has the sibilant where the Interior Salish has instead the lateral (either as phoneme or feature). Jess Tauber phonosemantics at earthlink.net _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l From mltarpent at hotmail.com Wed Mar 30 13:17:53 2011 From: mltarpent at hotmail.com (Marie-Lucie Tarpent) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 13:17:53 +0000 Subject: l vs. s, sh? In-Reply-To: <4D93170A.7010107@ling.su.se> Message-ID: I find these "changes" from /l/ to a variety of sibilants (without a suggestion of intermediate steps) hard to believe. I don't know the language families in question, let alone the reasons for the reconstruction of */l/ in the specific proto-languages, but could the */l/ be from yet another proto-phoneme, such as a **dental, so that the lateral and the sibilant might have a common ancestor, with the */l/ reconstructed because of its preponderance within the family rather than the phonetic plausibility of *lateral > sibilant? Even assuming that */l/ is the correct reconstruction, it is one thing to say that /s/ is the reflex of */l/ in language X, another to say (or imply) that the change has been (directly) */l/ > /s/. (The Quechua example seems to be of a different type than the other ones, since it involves a palatalized consonant, not the plain /l/). marie-lucie tarpent Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 13:42:02 +0200 From: parkvall at ling.su.se To: histling-l at mailman.rice.edu Subject: Re: [Histling-l] l vs. s, sh? Message body I haven’t systematicaly searched for sound changes, but whenever I come across a table or the like citing many of them at once, I usually save them in a file. Who knows what may come in handy some sunny day? For whatever it’s worth, here are the cases I have in that note file which might fit the bill: * Proto-Algonquian → Arapaho: /ɬ/ → /θ/ (Picard 1994:4) * Proto-Algonquian → Blackfoot: /l/ → /ʃ/ (Berman 2006:365) * Proto-Algonquian → Woods Cree: /l/ → /ð/ (Bakker 1996b:5) * proto-Austronesian →→ Basay: /l/ → /c/ (Li 2004:367) * Proto-Min → some Min dialects: /toneless l/ → /ʃ/ (Norman 1988:233) * Proto-Min → some Western Min dialects: /toneless l/ → /s/ (Norman 1988:233) * Proto-Ongamo-Maa → Ngasa: /ɬ/ → /h/ (Vossen & Heine 1989:191-3) * proto-Quechua → Argentinian Quechua of Santiago del Estero: /lʲ/ → /ʒ/ (Adelaar 2004:204) [Citing from memory, doesn't this characterise Argentinian Spanish as well?] * proto-Quechua → some Quechua varieties of Argentina and Ecuador: /lʲ/ → /ʧ/ (Adelaar 2004:204) The IPA is in Unicode. I can provide the refs if anyone needs them. /mp _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l From linpb at hum.au.dk Wed Mar 30 13:58:48 2011 From: linpb at hum.au.dk (Peter Bakker) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 15:58:48 +0200 Subject: Histling-l Digest, Vol 47, Issue 11 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Laterals and sibilants: In Takelma, Sahaptian, Wakashan and Chemakuan languages, all spoken near Salish, laterals and sibilants can vary (1) depending on the person spoken to (Nootka crosseyed people, Quileute small men, etc.) (2) depending on the speaker in myths (e.g. Coyote sibilant, Grizzly Bear lateral, etc.) On the other hand, dentals are also frequently involved. See Mithun's Languages of native North America p. 273-276 for examples and sources. Peter Bakker -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l From pekka.sammallahti at oulu.fi Wed Mar 30 13:59:32 2011 From: pekka.sammallahti at oulu.fi (Pekka Sammallahti) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 16:59:32 +0300 Subject: l vs. s, sh? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The Portuguese development is pretty straightforward (postconsonantal l was more or less voiceless to begin with), and the development in Hanti/Ostyak took the opposite course *s > (shift from postdental to interdental) * > (lateralization + retraction) *L > (voicing) l. Pekka Sammallahti Quoting Marie-Lucie Tarpent : > > I find these "changes" from /l/ to a variety of sibilants (without a > suggestion of intermediate steps) hard to believe. I don't know > the language families in question, let alone the reasons for the > reconstruction of */l/ in the specific proto-languages, but could > the */l/ be from yet another proto-phoneme, such as a **dental, so > that the lateral and the sibilant might have a common ancestor, with > the */l/ reconstructed because of its preponderance within the > family rather than the phonetic plausibility of *lateral > sibilant? > Even assuming that */l/ is the correct reconstruction, it is one > thing to say that /s/ is the reflex of */l/ in language X, another > to say (or imply) that the change has been (directly) */l/ > /s/. > > (The Quechua example seems to be of a different type than the other > ones, since it involves a palatalized consonant, not the plain /l/). > > marie-lucie tarpent > > Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 13:42:02 +0200 > From: parkvall at ling.su.se > To: histling-l at mailman.rice.edu > Subject: Re: [Histling-l] l vs. s, sh? > > > > > > > > Message body > > > > I haven?t > systematicaly searched for sound changes, but whenever I come > across a table or > the like citing many of them at once, I usually save them in a > file. Who knows what may > come in handy some sunny day? For whatever it?s worth, here are > the cases I > have in that note file which might fit the bill: > > * Proto-Algonquian > ? Arapaho: /?/ ? /?/ > (Picard > 1994:4) > * Proto-Algonquian > ? Blackfoot: /l/ ? /?/ > (Berman > 2006:365) > * Proto-Algonquian > ? Woods Cree: /l/ ? /ð/ > (Bakker 1996b:5) > * proto-Austronesian > ?? Basay: /l/ ? /c/ (Li > 2004:367) > * Proto-Min ? some Min dialects: /toneless l/ ? /?/ (Norman 1988:233) > * Proto-Min ? some Western Min dialects: > /toneless l/ ? /s/ (Norman > 1988:233) > * Proto-Ongamo-Maa ? Ngasa: /?/ ? /h/ (Vossen & Heine > 1989:191-3) > * proto-Quechua ? Argentinian Quechua of > Santiago del Estero: > /l?/ ? /?/ (Adelaar > 2004:204) [Citing from memory, doesn't this characterise > Argentinian Spanish as well?] > > > * proto-Quechua ? some Quechua varieties of > Argentina and Ecuador: > /l?/ ? /?/ (Adelaar > 2004:204) > > The IPA is in Unicode. I can provide the refs > if anyone needs > them. > > > > > /mp > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Histling-l mailing list > Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu > https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l From trecht at berkeley.edu Wed Mar 30 16:13:00 2011 From: trecht at berkeley.edu (Tom Recht) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 09:13:00 -0700 Subject: l vs. s, sh? Message-ID: Proto-Semitic is reconstructed as having had a voiceless lateral phoneme (or even two, plain and emphatic), which became [s] or [sh] in the daughter languages. I don't know if there's a consensus on this reconstruction, though. In any case, I would think the change [l] > sibilant often involves a voiceless lateral stage. Tom Recht _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l From William.Steed at anu.edu.au Wed Mar 30 22:19:44 2011 From: William.Steed at anu.edu.au (William Steed) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 09:19:44 +1100 Subject: l vs. s, sh? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Some Seiyap Yue Chinese varieties have voiceless laterals where other Yue varieties have sibilants - cognates like [si] vs. [hli]. I don't believe that the process of change has been studied in this case. William Steed School of Language Studies Australian National University ________________________________________ From: histling-l-bounces at mailman.rice.edu [histling-l-bounces at mailman.rice.edu] On Behalf Of Wright, Roger [Roger.Wright at liverpool.ac.uk] Sent: Wednesday, 30 March 2011 8:12 PM To: jess tauber; histling-l at mailman.rice.edu Subject: Re: [Histling-l] l vs. s, sh? Many Latin words beginning with [pl-] or [kl-] became Portuguese words beginning with the unvoiced palatal sibilant (a symbol I can't e-mail, but as in the "sh-" of English "shop"); e.g. Latin PLAGAM > Portuguese "chaga" ('wound'), CLAVEM > "chave" ('key'). The Castilian Spanish equivalents used to have the palatal lateral (roughly = the "lli" in English "million"); "llaga", "llave"; though these have since delateralized in many geographical areas. RW ________________________________________ From: histling-l-bounces at mailman.rice.edu [histling-l-bounces at mailman.rice.edu] On Behalf Of jess tauber [phonosemantics at earthlink.net] Sent: 29 March 2011 16:56 To: histling-l at mailman.rice.edu Subject: [Histling-l] l vs. s, sh? Hi folks. I've got a question- is historical connection between laterals and sibilants/shibilants common in the languages of the world? I've seen this type of thing as a sound symbolic alternation in a number of different families, but am ignorant about its appearance in comparisons when such alternations are not evident. In Interior Salish (Kuipers) *t'ak'l(a) refers to packing up provisions for a trip- the Yahgan equivalent is ta:kasa- Then I.S. (under root *tl'aq to prick, pin, skewer, stick in) there are forms that point to *tl'aq-ana7 for pocket, sack, bag. The Yahgan equivalent here is gvsanux a bag, sack, pocket. In both examples the Yahgan form has the sibilant where the Interior Salish has instead the lateral (either as phoneme or feature). Jess Tauber phonosemantics at earthlink.net _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l From mltarpent at hotmail.com Thu Mar 31 01:00:24 2011 From: mltarpent at hotmail.com (Marie-Lucie Tarpent) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 01:00:24 +0000 Subject: Histling-l Digest, Vol 47, Issue 11 Message-ID: I think that the *alternation* between laterals and sibilants in Takelma, etc is different from the alleged historical *changes* from /l/ to a sibilant brought up earlier. The phonetic difference between those categories (even where there is no phonological significance, as in Takelma which does not have the lateral fricative L in its phonological inventory) is consciously manipulated for stylistic purposes in non-normal speech (ie, in identifying the speech of animal characters during the recital or performance of legends), not in conversation or narrative. The Takelma alternation applies not to words per se but to special prefixes used to identify the speech of important animal characters (a feature it shares with some other languages of the NW coast area). In Sahaptian and Chinookan, on the other hand, some consonant phonemes occur in pairs or even triplets which alternate in the same words in order to convey stylistic features such as diminution or augmentation, and /s/and /L/ are part of the extensive Sahaptian consonant alternation pattern. In all those cases there is no evidence of phonological change from one phonetic category to the other in lexical items, between one historical period and another. marie-lucie Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 15:58:48 +0200 To: histling-l at mailman.rice.edu CC: histling-l at mailman.rice.edu From: linpb at hum.au.dk Subject: Re: [Histling-l] Histling-l Digest, Vol 47, Issue 11 Message body Laterals and sibilants: In Takelma, Sahaptian, Wakashan and Chemakuan languages, all spoken near Salish, laterals and sibilants can vary (1) depending on the person spoken to (Nootka crosseyed people, Quileute small men, etc.) (2) depending on the speaker in myths (e.g. Coyote sibilant, Grizzly Bear lateral, etc.) On the other hand, dentals are also frequently involved. See Mithun's Languages of native North America p. 273-276 for examples and sources. Peter Bakker _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l From claire.bowern at yale.edu Sun Mar 6 00:46:49 2011 From: claire.bowern at yale.edu (Claire Bowern) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 19:46:49 -0500 Subject: Accent maintenance - summary In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Many thanks to everyone who responded on- and off-list to my query about accent maintenance, and sorry for the delay in compiling the summary. The phenomenon I was asking about (intentionally retaining L1 accent features in L2, despite fluency) seems to be extremely common. In addition to the identity issues I mentioned in the query (that is, retaining features to signal that one is a foreigner, or from a particular place), others brought up other sociolinguistic reasons, for example prestige views of the L1. Wolfgang Dressler also mentioned a case where someone neutralized front rounded vowels with back vowels in German, because he didn't want to sound Turkish. In terms of papers, Maicol Formentelli pointed me in the direction of work by Jennifer Jenkins: Jenkins, Jennifer (2007) English as a Lingua Franca: attitude and identity, OUP. Jenkins, Jennifer (2001) The phonology of English as an international language, OUP. Jenkins, Jennifer (2009) ?(Un)pleasant? (In)correct? (Un)intelligible? ELF Speakers? Perceptions of Their Accents?. In Anna Mauranen and Elina Ranta (eds.) English as a Lingua Franca: Studies and Findings. Newcastle upon Tyne: Cambridge Scholars Publishing. 10-36. Sandro Caruana also mentioned the case of Maltese speakers of English, where interdentals are pronounced as t and d despite proficiency. Thanks to the following people for replies. R?my Viredaz Sheila Embleton Raymond Mougeon Ruth King Paolo Ramat Sandro Caruana Maicol Formentelli Roger Wright Jacqueline Visconti Jim Gair Wolfgang Dressler -- ----- Claire Bowern Associate Professor Department of Linguistics Yale University 370 Temple St New Haven, CT 06511 North American Dialects survey: http://pantheon.yale.edu/~clb3/NorthAmericanDialects/ -- ----- Claire Bowern Associate Professor Department of Linguistics Yale University 370 Temple St New Haven, CT 06511 North American Dialects survey: http://pantheon.yale.edu/~clb3/NorthAmericanDialects/ _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l From luraghi at unipv.it Thu Mar 10 22:01:52 2011 From: luraghi at unipv.it (Silvia Luraghi) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 23:01:52 +0100 Subject: Announcement - Pavia International Summer School for Indo-European Linguistics 19-25 September 2011 Message-ID: (Apologies for cross-posting) Pavia International Summer School for Indo-European Linguistics Pavia (Italy) 19-25 September 2011 General Description: The Pavia International Summer School for Indo-European Linguistics will be held from September 19 to September 25 at the University of Pavia. It will feature four courses, a lab on the use of corpora in historical linguistics and issues connected with annotation, a poster session in which students will be able to present their research, and will end with the International Conference ?Historical-Comparative Linguistics in the 21st century? (see attached program). Attendance is limited to 20 participants. Courses and instructors: Course 1 = Sanskrit (Leonid Kulikov, Leiden; introduced by Silvia Luraghi, Pavia) Course 2 = Celtic (Ranko Matasovic, Zagreb; introduced by Elisa Roma, Pavia) Course 3 = Baltic (Daniel Petit, ?cole Normale Sup?rieure Paris; introduced by Maria Cristina Bragone, Pavia) Course 4 = Tocharian (Gerd Carling, Uppsala; introduced by Pierluigi Cuzzolin, Bergamo) Lab (Dag Haug, Oslo; introduced by Elisabetta Jezek, Pavia) Preliminary Schedule: http://attach.matita.net/silvialuraghi/file/Bando%20Summer%20School.pdf Admission: We invite PhD students, as well as Postdocs and other young researchers to send us their application. Advanced MA students can also be considered for admission, based on a written statement of their motivation for attending the school. Applications will be examined by an international scientific committee, which will assign them a score. Participants will be admitted based on the score up to a maximum of 20. PhD students will be given precedence. As all courses are taught in English, a good knowledge of English is a basic requirement. Application deadline: June 30, 2011 ECTS: Participation in the Summer School, including active participation in the Poster Session and attendance of the International Conference, stands for 3 ECTS. At the end of the Summer School, every participant will receive a certificate, which will indicate the amount of awarded ECTS credits. Fees: Attendance to the Summer School is free of charge. We have reserved single rooms for participants at the Collegio Volta for the nights from Sunday 18 Sept (arrival) to Sunday 25 Sept (departure) at the total price of 350 Euros, which also includes lunch at the cafeteria (Mensa Fraccaro), one-week pass for public transportation, and invitation to all social events featured at the Conference. Scientific Committee: Marina Benedetti Pierluigi Cuzzolin Rosemarie L?hr Silvia Luraghi Ranko Matasovic Contact: Practical information and housing: Giorgio Iemmolo giorgio.iemmolo at unipv.it Erica Pinelli ericapinelli at alice.it Poster session: Alessandra Caviglia alessandra.caviglia at gmail.com Please send applications to: silvia.luraghi at unipv.it ################################################################################ International Conference Historical-Comparative Linguistics in the 21st Century Preliminary program http://attach.matita.net/silvialuraghi/file/Humboldt%20Kolleg%20Program.pdf Silvia Luraghi Dipartimento di Linguistica Teorica e Applicata Universit? di Pavia Strada Nuova 65 I-27100 Pavia telef.: +39-0382-984685 fax: +39-0382-984487 silvia.luraghi at unipv.it http://lettere.unipv.it/diplinguistica/docenti.php?&id=68 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l From ritsuko at minpaku.ac.jp Mon Mar 14 12:51:06 2011 From: ritsuko at minpaku.ac.jp (KIKUSAWA, Ritsuko) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 21:51:06 +0900 Subject: The Effect of the Earthquake on the ICHL XX Venue Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, The Conference Organizers of the 20th International Conference on Historical Linguistics (ICHL XX) have been receiving messages showing sympathies toward those affected by the earthquake that took place in the Northern Japan on March 11, and would like to thank everyone for their consideration. We assure prospective participants that the Osaka area is little affected by the incident (we are more than 1000 km away from the area where the disaster took place); on this side of Japan, things have remained normal and airports and other public transportations are functioning as usual. We understand that the situation in Tokyo is quickly getting back to normal as well. We do not see any reason why the conference has to be cancelled or relocated at this point, and if you are wondering about what to do, please go ahead and make plans to participate in the conference in Osaka. If you have any specific inquiries, please do not hesitate to contact us. We appreciate the fact that so many people's thoughts are with us. The Conference Organizers would like to also show deepest sympathies toward those who live in the affected region. We are hoping that the disaster control and recovery in the Tohoku-Kantoh Area will be smooth and effective. Thank you very much and looking forward to welcoming you in Osaka in July. KIKUSAWA Ritsuko Director, ICHL20 Organizing Committee Due to the recent earthquake in the Tohoku area on March 11, 2011, the Tokyo Electric Power Company has announced the possibility of temporary power outages until full power can be restored to the affected areas. It is possible, therefore, that the ICHLXX website may be temporarily out of service during the blackout. If you cannot access the website, please try again after a few hours. ================================================= KIKUSAWA Ritsuko Ph.D. National Museum of Ethnology, Japan The Graduate University for Advanced Studies ritsuko at minpaku.ac.jp The 20th International Conference on Historical Linguistics, to be held for the first time in Asia in July 2011. See http://www.ichl2011.com/ ================================================= _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l From ritsuko at minpaku.ac.jp Wed Mar 23 21:11:47 2011 From: ritsuko at minpaku.ac.jp (KIKUSAWA, Ritsuko) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 06:11:47 +0900 Subject: Rescheduling/relocation of the ICHL XX NOT considered at this point Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, I'm sending out this note in response to several inquiries we have recently received about possible relocation or rescheduling of the conference. Osaka has been little affected by the earthquake, tsunami, or radioactivity, and the local Organizing Committee (who are all living a normal life in Osaka, travelling periodically to Tokyo, trying to do what we can do for those who live in affected areas) see no necessity of considering the relocation or rescheduling of the conference for the moment. However, we have decided to extend the early registration deadline by one month despite the disadvantages that will result in the organizing procedure. The decision was made considering the responses of foreign governments and universities that have advised their citizens/employees not to visit Japan. This is a precautionary measure, however, it makes it impossible for some people to officially register for the conference. We should probably note here that some countries have decided to temporarily move their embassies away from the Tokyo area, and have chosen Osaka as their relocation site, apparently considering that this city is unlikely to be affected by the problems in the north. The Japanese population, including us, are carefully monitoring the situation for any developments that may affect us. We know also that our conference is still four months away and any problems that may arise in the near future should be well taken care of before then. I thank you again for the messages with supports and encouragements we have continuously been receiving since the incident. I hope all of you for now join us as we calmly watch how the situation with the nuclear plants develops (or rather, improves) in the next few weeks. And again, I would like to express my sincere condolences for those who live in the affected areas. KIKUSAWA Ritsuko Director, ICHL20 Organizing Committee ? It is just over 600 km between Fukushima and Osaka as the crow flies. ? For those who are interested, the reading of environmental radioactivity levels is available in English at the following website of the Japanese Ministry of Education: http://www.mext.go.jp/english/radioactivity_level/detail/1303986.htm (Listed by prefectures; organized from the north to the south) ================================================= KIKUSAWA Ritsuko Ph.D. National Museum of Ethnology, Japan The Graduate University for Advanced Studies ritsuko at minpaku.ac.jp The 20th International Conference on Historical Linguistics, to be held for the first time in Asia in July 2011. See http://www.ichl2011.com/ ================================================= _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l From e-ching.ng at yale.edu Fri Mar 25 05:01:02 2011 From: e-ching.ng at yale.edu (E-Ching Ng) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 01:01:02 -0400 Subject: Front rounded vowel question Message-ID: Dear all, I'm looking for languages which lost front rounded vowels, e.g. German /y/ > Yiddish /i/. So far I've got Old > Middle English, OHG > Yiddish, French > creoles. If you know of other languages with front rounded vowels and descendants, I would be very grateful. I will of course post a summary to the list. Hopefully, E-Ching ___________________________________ E-Ching Ng Department of Linguistics, Yale University http://pantheon.yale.edu/~en27/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l From pekka.sammallahti at oulu.fi Fri Mar 25 06:48:08 2011 From: pekka.sammallahti at oulu.fi (Pekka Sammallahti) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 08:48:08 +0200 Subject: Front rounded vowel question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Uralic: Livonian (Baltic Finnic) Saami lgs (the southernmost lgs developed secondary ?s) Manysi (Tavda dialect through velarization, others through lowering to low vowels) Permic lgs (through velarization) Proto-Samoyedic (Proto-Samoyed developed a secondary *? which was unrounded in Nganasan and velarized in Enets and Nenets) Pekka Sammallahti Quoting E-Ching Ng : > Dear all, > > I'm looking for languages which lost front rounded vowels, e.g. German /y/ > > Yiddish /i/. So far I've got Old > Middle English, OHG > Yiddish, French > > creoles. If you know of other languages with front rounded vowels and > descendants, I would be very grateful. I will of course post a summary to > the list. > > Hopefully, > E-Ching > > ___________________________________ > > E-Ching Ng > Department of Linguistics, Yale University > http://pantheon.yale.edu/~en27/ > _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l From peter.trudgill at unifr.ch Fri Mar 25 08:03:40 2011 From: peter.trudgill at unifr.ch (Peter Trudgill) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 08:03:40 +0000 Subject: Front rounded vowel question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Greek and Icelandic are other languages which used to have front rounded vowels and no longer do. At 06:01 +0100 25/3/11, E-Ching Ng wrote: >Dear all, > >I'm looking for languages which lost front rounded vowels, e.g. >German /y/ > Yiddish /i/. So far I've got Old > Middle English, >OHG > Yiddish, French > creoles. If you know of other languages with >front rounded vowels and descendants, I would be very grateful. I >will of course post a summary to the list. > >Hopefully, >E-Ching > >___________________________________ > >E-Ching Ng >Department of Linguistics, Yale University >http://pantheon.yale.edu/~en27/ > >Content-Type: text/plain; name="ATT00001.txt" >Content-Description: ATT00001.txt >Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ATT00001.txt"; size=221; > creation-date="Fri, 25 Mar 2011 05:01:21 GMT"; > modification-date="Fri, 25 Mar 2011 05:01:21 GMT" > >Attachment converted: Macintosh HD:ATT00001 72.txt (TEXT/ttxt) (001B47E7) -- __________________________________________ Peter Trudgill FBA Prof. of Sociolinguistics, Agder Univ., N Adjunct Prof., RCLT, La Trobe Univ., AU Prof. Emeritus of Eng. Linguistics, Fribourg Univ, CH Hon. Prof. of Sociolinguistics, UEA, Norwich, UK Forthcoming book: Sociolinguistic typology: social determinants of linguistic structure and complexity. OUP Oct/Nov 2011. __________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l From johanna.laakso at univie.ac.at Fri Mar 25 08:25:36 2011 From: johanna.laakso at univie.ac.at (Johanna Laakso) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 09:25:36 +0100 Subject: Front rounded vowel question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Just to add to Pekka Sammallahti's comment: The loss of ? and ? in Livonian was a fairly recent contact-induced substitution (in the early 20th century, old speakers had [?] and [?], and they were used in the orthography of the Livonian literary language between the two world wars). That is, it seems to be a sudden adaptation into the phonetics of Latvian, which does not have front rounded vowels. Thus, the loss of front rounded vowels in Livonian is perhaps not so very different from the contact-induced substitutions (? > e, ? > i) which seem to have taken place in some Baltic German varieties (spoken by Latvians) and in the traditional Bohemian variety of German ("behmakeln" or the "Czech accent" in German; Czech also lacks front rounded vowels). Best JL -- Univ.Prof. Dr. Johanna Laakso Universit?t Wien, Institut f?r Europ?ische und Vergleichende Sprach- und Literaturwissenschaft (EVSL) Abteilung Finno-Ugristik Campus AAKH Spitalgasse 2-4 Hof 7 A-1090 Wien johanna.laakso at univie.ac.at ? http://homepage.univie.ac.at/Johanna.Laakso/ Project ELDIA: http://www.eldia-project.org/ E-Ching Ng kirjoitti 25.3.2011 kello 6.01: > Dear all, > > I'm looking for languages which lost front rounded vowels, e.g. German /y/ > Yiddish /i/. So far I've got Old > Middle English, OHG > Yiddish, French > creoles. If you know of other languages with front rounded vowels and descendants, I would be very grateful. I will of course post a summary to the list. > > Hopefully, > E-Ching > > ___________________________________ > > E-Ching Ng > Department of Linguistics, Yale University > http://pantheon.yale.edu/~en27/ > _______________________________________________ > Histling-l mailing list > Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu > https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l From W.Schulze at lrz.uni-muenchen.de Fri Mar 25 09:57:33 2011 From: W.Schulze at lrz.uni-muenchen.de (Wolfgang Schulze) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 10:57:33 +0100 Subject: Front rounded vowel question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Just to add some further data: a. Geoffrey Hall has discussed [?] > [u] etc. in his 1892 dissertation on "Rhaeto-Cisalpine dialects" (available from http://digidownload.libero.it/alpdn/TesiDiHull/TheLinguisticUnityOfNI&R.pdf). b. Most Bavarian dialects have [?] > [i]; c. Low Prussian dialects of Low Saxon (Plauttdietsch) usually habe [?] > [i] ~ [i:], e.g. (? >i [gli:k] and ? > e [sche:n]); d. Kortlandt describes a process of "[d]elabialization of u, u-, uN, ?, u"-, ?N [for Late Middle Slavic]. This development yielded y, y-, yN, i, i-, iN (...)". f. For Selice Romani (SW-Slovakia), El??k 2007:23-24 maintains: "The only Hungarian phonemes to get phonologically adapted in Selice Romani loanwords are the front rounded vowels: the mid /?/ [?] and /o"/ [?:] and the high /?/ [y] and /u"/ [y:]. They are mostly replaced with their front unrounded counterparts, the mid /e/ [e ~ ?] and /?/ [?:] and the high /i/ [i] and /?/ [i:], respectively, e.g. Hungarian cs?t?rt?k ?Thursday? > Selice Romani c(itertek-o and Hungarian ko"mu"ves ?bricklayer? > Selice Romani k?m?ve?-i" [cf. http://ulug.ff.cuni.cz/lingvistika/elsik/Elsik_Loanwords-in-Selice-Romani_071104.pdf]- e. Delabialization of [?] > [i] and [?] > [e] is common feature of the Nizh dialect of Udi (South East Caucasian), compare Varatshen dialect g?l? > gele 'much/very', Vartashen dialect d?r?st' > diris(t') 'upright, right, correct' etc. All the best, Wolfgang > > E-Ching Ng kirjoitti 25.3.2011 kello 6.01: > >> Dear all, >> >> I'm looking for languages which lost front rounded vowels, e.g. >> German /y/ > Yiddish /i/. So far I've got Old > Middle English, OHG > >> Yiddish, French > creoles. If you know of other languages with front >> rounded vowels and descendants, I would be very grateful. I will of >> course post a summary to the list. >> >> Hopefully, >> E-Ching -- ---------------------------------------------------------- *Prof. Dr. Wolfgang Schulze * ---------------------------------------------------------- Institut f?r Allgemeine & Typologische Sprachwissenschaft Dept. II / F 13 Ludwig-Maximilians-Universit?t M?nchen Ludwigstra?e 25 D-80539 M?nchen Tel.: 0049-(0)89-2180-2486 (Secretary) 0049-(0)89-2180-5343 (Office) Fax: 0049-(0)89-2180-5345 Email: W.Schulze at lrz.uni-muenchen.de /// Wolfgang.Schulze at lmu.de Web: http://www.ats.lmu.de/index.html Personal homepage: http://www.wolfgangschulze.in-devir.com ---------------------------------------------------------- Diese e-Mail kann vertrauliche und/oder rechtlich gesch?tzte Informationen enthalten. Wenn Sie nicht der richtige Adressat sind bzw. diese e-Mail irrt?mlich erhalten haben, informieren Sie bitte umgehend den Absender und vernichten Sie diese e-Mail. Das unerlaubte Kopieren sowie das unbefugte Verwenden und Weitergeben vertraulicher e-Mails oder etwaiger, mit solchen e-Mails verbundener Anh?nge im Ganzen oder in Teilen ist nicht gestattet. Ferner wird die Haftung f?r jeglichen Verlust oder Schaden, insbesondere durch virenbefallene e-Mails ausgeschlossen. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l From W.Schulze at lrz.uni-muenchen.de Fri Mar 25 10:08:32 2011 From: W.Schulze at lrz.uni-muenchen.de (Wolfgang Schulze) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 11:08:32 +0100 Subject: Front rounded vowel question /correction In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sorry, there had been two typos in the first reference: > a. Geoffrey Hall has discussed [?] > [u] etc. in his 1892 dissertation > on "Rhaeto-Cisalpine dialects" (available from > http://digidownload.libero.it/alpdn/TesiDiHull/TheLinguisticUnityOfNI&R.pdf). > Naturally, the authors' name is "Geoffrey Stephen Hull", and the dissertation is from 1982...;-) Please except my excuse and best wishes, Wolfgang > > E-Ching Ng kirjoitti 25.3.2011 kello 6.01: > >> Dear all, >> >> I'm looking for languages which lost front rounded vowels, e.g. >> German /y/ > Yiddish /i/. So far I've got Old > Middle English, OHG > >> Yiddish, French > creoles. If you know of other languages with front >> rounded vowels and descendants, I would be very grateful. I will of >> course post a summary to the list. >> >> Hopefully, >> E-Ching -- ---------------------------------------------------------- *Prof. Dr. Wolfgang Schulze * ---------------------------------------------------------- Institut f?r Allgemeine & Typologische Sprachwissenschaft Dept. II / F 13 Ludwig-Maximilians-Universit?t M?nchen Ludwigstra?e 25 D-80539 M?nchen Tel.: 0049-(0)89-2180-2486 (Secretary) 0049-(0)89-2180-5343 (Office) Fax: 0049-(0)89-2180-5345 Email: W.Schulze at lrz.uni-muenchen.de /// Wolfgang.Schulze at lmu.de Web: http://www.ats.lmu.de/index.html Personal homepage: http://www.wolfgangschulze.in-devir.com ---------------------------------------------------------- Diese e-Mail kann vertrauliche und/oder rechtlich gesch?tzte Informationen enthalten. Wenn Sie nicht der richtige Adressat sind bzw. diese e-Mail irrt?mlich erhalten haben, informieren Sie bitte umgehend den Absender und vernichten Sie diese e-Mail. Das unerlaubte Kopieren sowie das unbefugte Verwenden und Weitergeben vertraulicher e-Mails oder etwaiger, mit solchen e-Mails verbundener Anh?nge im Ganzen oder in Teilen ist nicht gestattet. Ferner wird die Haftung f?r jeglichen Verlust oder Schaden, insbesondere durch virenbefallene e-Mails ausgeschlossen. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l From peter.trudgill at unifr.ch Fri Mar 25 11:52:00 2011 From: peter.trudgill at unifr.ch (Peter Trudgill) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 11:52:00 +0000 Subject: Front rounded vowel question In-Reply-To: <5E9FD0D28E107D43B34827E37659E6000FE315@MAILSERVER-03.hq.int.unesco.org> Message-ID: The question was about which languages had LOST font rounded vowels, not which languages curently have them, I thought. At 11:46 +0100 25/3/11, Hewitt, Stephen wrote: >Sorry, not strictly true about Icelandic, even >if historic /y/ and /?/ are now /?/ >and /ai/. However, there are still front >rounded vowels (admittedly of different origin) >in the phoneme inventory: > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icelandic_phonology#Vowels > > >Best regards > >Steve Hewitt >30 rue Charles Baudelaire >75012 PARIS >>France >+00.33/-0 1.45.68.06.08 work >+00.33/-0 1.46.28.89.16 home >+00.33/-0 6.32.13.79.42 mobile >s.hewitt at unesco.org > > > >From: Peter Trudgill [mailto:peter.trudgill at unifr.ch] >Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 9:04 AM >To: histling-l >Subject: Re: [Histling-l] Front rounded vowel question > >Greek and Icelandic are other languages which >used to have front rounded vowels and no longer >do. > > >At 06:01 +0100 25/3/11, E-Ching Ng wrote: > >>Dear all, >> >>I'm looking for languages which lost front >>rounded vowels, e.g. German /y/ > Yiddish /i/. >>So far I've got Old > Middle English, OHG > >>Yiddish, French > creoles. If you know of other >>languages with front rounded vowels and >>descendants, I would be very grateful. I will >>of course post a summary to the list. >> >>Hopefully, >>E-Ching >> >>___________________________________ >> >>E-Ching Ng >>Department of Linguistics, Yale University >>http://pantheon.yale.edu/~en27/ >> >> >>Content-Type: text/plain; name="ATT00001.txt" >>Content-Description: ATT00001.txt >>Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ATT00001.txt"; size=221; >> creation-date="Fri, 25 Mar 2011 05:01:21 GMT"; >> modification-date="Fri, 25 Mar 2011 05:01:21 GMT" >> >>Attachment converted: Macintosh HD:ATT00001 72.txt (TEXT/ttxt) (001B47E7) >> > > >-- >__________________________________________ > >Peter Trudgill FBA >Prof. of Sociolinguistics, Agder Univ., N >Adjunct Prof., RCLT, La Trobe Univ., AU >Prof. Emeritus of Eng. Linguistics, Fribourg Univ, CH >Hon. Prof. of Sociolinguistics, UEA, Norwich, UK > >Forthcoming book: Sociolinguistic typology: >social determinants of linguistic structure and >complexity. OUP Oct/Nov 2011. >__________________________________________ -- __________________________________________ Peter Trudgill FBA Prof. of Sociolinguistics, Agder Univ., N Adjunct Prof., RCLT, La Trobe Univ., AU Prof. Emeritus of Eng. Linguistics, Fribourg Univ, CH Hon. Prof. of Sociolinguistics, UEA, Norwich, UK Forthcoming book: Sociolinguistic typology: social determinants of linguistic structure and complexity. OUP Oct/Nov 2011. __________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l From epalancar at hotmail.com Fri Mar 25 11:57:13 2011 From: epalancar at hotmail.com (Enrique L. Palancar) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 11:57:13 +0000 Subject: Front rounded vowel question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear E-Ching, You may now this already, but I thought a precision about English was desirable as Middle English is often taken as being a unitary system. The Old English > Middle English unrounding from /y/ > /i/ only occurred in the Northern and East-Midlands dialects (in Kentish, the historical reflex is already found as /e/). In the city of London there was a great deal of variation, but eventually it was resolved to favoring the East Middlands pronunciation, with isolated words from other dialects, in spelling, pronunciation or both, e.g. - Kentish spelling and pronunciation: "merry", "knell"- Southern spelling, but East-Midlands pronunciation: "build", "busy"- Southern spelling, but Kentish pronunciation: in both the verb "to bury" and the stem in compounds such as "Canterbury"- Southern spelling and pronunciation, but unrounded to /u/: "lust" (the current pronunciation comes from an unrounding and lowering that happened later seen today in most dialects including the standard) or "worse" (with central vowel of a later period). Very best,Enrique Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 01:01:02 -0400 From: e-ching.ng at yale.edu To: histling-l at mailman.rice.edu Subject: [Histling-l] Front rounded vowel question Dear all, I'm looking for languages which lost front rounded vowels, e.g. German /y/ > Yiddish /i/. So far I've got Old > Middle English, OHG > Yiddish, French > creoles. If you know of other languages with front rounded vowels and descendants, I would be very grateful. I will of course post a summary to the list. Hopefully, E-Ching ___________________________________ E-Ching Ng Department of Linguistics, Yale University http://pantheon.yale.edu/~en27/ _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l From ylfenn at earthlink.net Sat Mar 26 08:27:55 2011 From: ylfenn at earthlink.net (Martin Huld) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 01:27:55 -0700 Subject: Front rounded vowel question Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l From sashavovin at gmail.com Sun Mar 27 09:42:45 2011 From: sashavovin at gmail.com (Alexander Vovin) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 23:42:45 -1000 Subject: Front rounded vowel question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Middle Mongolian /y/ and /o"/ became /u/ and /IPA omega/ in modern Khalkha Mongolian, Chuvash reflexes of proto-Turkic *y and *o" are extremely complex, *y is preserved in few cases, but in most cases it and *o" in all cases are replaced by different vowels. Alexander Vovin Professor of East Asian Languages Department of East Asian Languages and Literatures University of Hawai'i at Manoa, USA ======================== iustitiam magni facite, infirmos protegite On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 7:01 PM, E-Ching Ng wrote: > Dear all, > > I'm looking for languages which lost front rounded vowels, e.g. German /y/ > > Yiddish /i/. So far I've got Old > Middle English, OHG > Yiddish, French > > creoles. If you know of other languages with front rounded vowels and > descendants, I would be very grateful. I will of course post a summary to > the list. > > Hopefully, > E-Ching > > ___________________________________ > > E-Ching Ng > Department of Linguistics, Yale University > http://pantheon.yale.edu/~en27/ > > _______________________________________________ > Histling-l mailing list > Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu > https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l > > _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l From c.j.rapold at hum.leidenuniv.nl Tue Mar 29 13:37:06 2011 From: c.j.rapold at hum.leidenuniv.nl (Christian Rapold) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 15:37:06 +0200 Subject: Histling-l Digest, Vol 47, Issue 9 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Older (and still Standard) Afrikaans /y/ and /? (rounded e)/ became / i/ and /e/ respectively in some varieties. Cheers, Christian Rapold On Mar 27, 2011, at 7:00 PM, histling-l-request at mailman.rice.edu wrote: > Send Histling-l mailing list submissions to > histling-l at mailman.rice.edu > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > histling-l-request at mailman.rice.edu > > You can reach the person managing the list at > histling-l-owner at mailman.rice.edu > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Histling-l digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Front rounded vowel question (Alexander Vovin) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 23:42:45 -1000 > From: Alexander Vovin > Subject: Re: [Histling-l] Front rounded vowel question > To: E-Ching Ng > Cc: histling-l > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Middle Mongolian /y/ and /o"/ became /u/ and /IPA omega/ in modern > Khalkha Mongolian, Chuvash reflexes of proto-Turkic *y and *o" are > extremely complex, *y is preserved in few cases, but in most cases it > and *o" in all cases are replaced by different vowels. > > Alexander Vovin > Professor of East Asian Languages > Department of East Asian Languages and Literatures > University of Hawai'i at Manoa, USA > ======================== > iustitiam magni facite, infirmos protegite > > > On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 7:01 PM, E-Ching Ng > wrote: >> Dear all, >> >> I'm looking for languages which lost front rounded vowels, e.g. >> German /y/ > >> Yiddish /i/. So far I've got Old > Middle English, OHG > Yiddish, >> French > >> creoles. If you know of other languages with front rounded vowels and >> descendants, I would be very grateful. I will of course post a >> summary to >> the list. >> >> Hopefully, >> E-Ching >> >> ___________________________________ >> >> E-Ching Ng >> Department of Linguistics, Yale University >> http://pantheon.yale.edu/~en27/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Histling-l mailing list >> Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu >> https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l >> >> > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Histling-l mailing list > Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu > https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l > > > End of Histling-l Digest, Vol 47, Issue 9 > ***************************************** _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l From phonosemantics at earthlink.net Tue Mar 29 15:56:00 2011 From: phonosemantics at earthlink.net (jess tauber) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 11:56:00 -0400 Subject: l vs. s, sh? Message-ID: Hi folks. I've got a question- is historical connection between laterals and sibilants/shibilants common in the languages of the world? I've seen this type of thing as a sound symbolic alternation in a number of different families, but am ignorant about its appearance in comparisons when such alternations are not evident. In Interior Salish (Kuipers) *t'ak'l(a) refers to packing up provisions for a trip- the Yahgan equivalent is ta:kasa- Then I.S. (under root *tl'aq to prick, pin, skewer, stick in) there are forms that point to *tl'aq-ana7 for pocket, sack, bag. The Yahgan equivalent here is gvsanux a bag, sack, pocket. In both examples the Yahgan form has the sibilant where the Interior Salish has instead the lateral (either as phoneme or feature). Jess Tauber phonosemantics at earthlink.net _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l From Roger.Wright at liverpool.ac.uk Wed Mar 30 09:12:17 2011 From: Roger.Wright at liverpool.ac.uk (Wright, Roger) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 10:12:17 +0100 Subject: l vs. s, sh? In-Reply-To: <1070878.1301414161030.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Many Latin words beginning with [pl-] or [kl-] became Portuguese words beginning with the unvoiced palatal sibilant (a symbol I can't e-mail, but as in the "sh-" of English "shop"); e.g. Latin PLAGAM > Portuguese "chaga" ('wound'), CLAVEM > "chave" ('key'). The Castilian Spanish equivalents used to have the palatal lateral (roughly = the "lli" in English "million"); "llaga", "llave"; though these have since delateralized in many geographical areas. RW ________________________________________ From: histling-l-bounces at mailman.rice.edu [histling-l-bounces at mailman.rice.edu] On Behalf Of jess tauber [phonosemantics at earthlink.net] Sent: 29 March 2011 16:56 To: histling-l at mailman.rice.edu Subject: [Histling-l] l vs. s, sh? Hi folks. I've got a question- is historical connection between laterals and sibilants/shibilants common in the languages of the world? I've seen this type of thing as a sound symbolic alternation in a number of different families, but am ignorant about its appearance in comparisons when such alternations are not evident. In Interior Salish (Kuipers) *t'ak'l(a) refers to packing up provisions for a trip- the Yahgan equivalent is ta:kasa- Then I.S. (under root *tl'aq to prick, pin, skewer, stick in) there are forms that point to *tl'aq-ana7 for pocket, sack, bag. The Yahgan equivalent here is gvsanux a bag, sack, pocket. In both examples the Yahgan form has the sibilant where the Interior Salish has instead the lateral (either as phoneme or feature). Jess Tauber phonosemantics at earthlink.net _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l From pekka.sammallahti at oulu.fi Wed Mar 30 09:59:56 2011 From: pekka.sammallahti at oulu.fi (Pekka Sammallahti) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 12:59:56 +0300 Subject: l vs. s, sh? In-Reply-To: <1070878.1301414161030.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Proto-Finno-Ugric *s was replaced by the voiceless dental spirant *th (can't use the proper symbol) in Proto-Ugric and this was replaced by the voiceless dental lateral *L in Hanti/Ostyak. Its reflexes in present Hanti dialects are L-, j- and t-. Pekka Sammallahti PhD, Professor emeritus of Saami Language Giellagas Institute University of Oulu Finland Quoting jess tauber : > Hi folks. I've got a question- is historical connection between > laterals and sibilants/shibilants common in the languages of the > world? I've seen this type of thing as a sound symbolic alternation > in a number of different families, but am ignorant about its > appearance in comparisons when such alternations are not evident. > > In Interior Salish (Kuipers) *t'ak'l(a) refers to packing up > provisions for a trip- the Yahgan equivalent is ta:kasa- > > Then I.S. (under root *tl'aq to prick, pin, skewer, stick in) there > are forms that point to *tl'aq-ana7 for pocket, sack, bag. The > Yahgan equivalent here is gvsanux a bag, sack, pocket. > > In both examples the Yahgan form has the sibilant where the Interior > Salish has instead the lateral (either as phoneme or feature). > > Jess Tauber > phonosemantics at earthlink.net > _______________________________________________ > Histling-l mailing list > Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu > https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l > _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l From parkvall at ling.su.se Wed Mar 30 11:42:02 2011 From: parkvall at ling.su.se (Mikael Parkvall) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 13:42:02 +0200 Subject: l vs. s, sh? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I haven't systematicaly searched for sound changes, but whenever I come across a table or the like citing many of them at once, I usually save them in a file. Who knows what may come in handy some sunny day? For whatever it's worth, here are the cases I have in that note file which might fit the bill: * Proto-Algonquian ? Arapaho: /?/ ? /?/ (Picard 1994:4) * Proto-Algonquian ? Blackfoot: /l/ ? /?/ (Berman 2006:365) * Proto-Algonquian ? Woods Cree: /l/ ? /?/ (Bakker 1996b:5) * proto-Austronesian ?? Basay: /l/ ? /c/ (Li 2004:367) * Proto-Min ? some Min dialects: /toneless l/ ? /?/ (Norman 1988:233) * Proto-Min ? some Western Min dialects: /toneless l/ ? /s/ (Norman 1988:233) * Proto-Ongamo-Maa ? Ngasa: /?/ ? /h/ (Vossen & Heine 1989:191-3) * proto-Quechua ? Argentinian Quechua of Santiago del Estero: /l^(j)/ ? /?/ (Adelaar 2004:204) [Citing from memory, doesn't this characterise Argentinian Spanish as well?] * proto-Quechua ? some Quechua varieties of Argentina and Ecuador: /l^(j)/ ? /?/ (Adelaar 2004:204) The IPA is in Unicode. I can provide the refs if anyone needs them. /mp -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l From dworkin at umich.edu Wed Mar 30 13:13:33 2011 From: dworkin at umich.edu (Dworkin, Steven) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 09:13:33 -0400 Subject: l vs. s, sh? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The Latin clusters [pl-]. [kl-] and on occasion [fl-] evolved in Old Portuguese to an voiceless palatal affricate represented by <> which later underwent deaffrication and became the unvoiced palatal sibilant of modern Portugese. The original affricate articulation is still preserved in some northern dialects. It is also possible that the palatal affricate was the original result of these Latin clusters in Hispano-Romance. Steve Dworkin On 3/30/11 5:12 AM, "Wright, Roger" wrote: Many Latin words beginning with [pl-] or [kl-] became Portuguese words beginning with the unvoiced palatal sibilant (a symbol I can't e-mail, but as in the "sh-" of English "shop"); e.g. Latin PLAGAM > Portuguese "chaga" ('wound'), CLAVEM > "chave" ('key'). The Castilian Spanish equivalents used to have the palatal lateral (roughly = the "lli" in English "million"); "llaga", "llave"; though these have since delateralized in many geographical areas. RW ________________________________________ From: histling-l-bounces at mailman.rice.edu [histling-l-bounces at mailman.rice.edu] On Behalf Of jess tauber [phonosemantics at earthlink.net] Sent: 29 March 2011 16:56 To: histling-l at mailman.rice.edu Subject: [Histling-l] l vs. s, sh? Hi folks. I've got a question- is historical connection between laterals and sibilants/shibilants common in the languages of the world? I've seen this type of thing as a sound symbolic alternation in a number of different families, but am ignorant about its appearance in comparisons when such alternations are not evident. In Interior Salish (Kuipers) *t'ak'l(a) refers to packing up provisions for a trip- the Yahgan equivalent is ta:kasa- Then I.S. (under root *tl'aq to prick, pin, skewer, stick in) there are forms that point to *tl'aq-ana7 for pocket, sack, bag. The Yahgan equivalent here is gvsanux a bag, sack, pocket. In both examples the Yahgan form has the sibilant where the Interior Salish has instead the lateral (either as phoneme or feature). Jess Tauber phonosemantics at earthlink.net _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l From mltarpent at hotmail.com Wed Mar 30 13:17:53 2011 From: mltarpent at hotmail.com (Marie-Lucie Tarpent) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 13:17:53 +0000 Subject: l vs. s, sh? In-Reply-To: <4D93170A.7010107@ling.su.se> Message-ID: I find these "changes" from /l/ to a variety of sibilants (without a suggestion of intermediate steps) hard to believe. I don't know the language families in question, let alone the reasons for the reconstruction of */l/ in the specific proto-languages, but could the */l/ be from yet another proto-phoneme, such as a **dental, so that the lateral and the sibilant might have a common ancestor, with the */l/ reconstructed because of its preponderance within the family rather than the phonetic plausibility of *lateral > sibilant? Even assuming that */l/ is the correct reconstruction, it is one thing to say that /s/ is the reflex of */l/ in language X, another to say (or imply) that the change has been (directly) */l/ > /s/. (The Quechua example seems to be of a different type than the other ones, since it involves a palatalized consonant, not the plain /l/). marie-lucie tarpent Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 13:42:02 +0200 From: parkvall at ling.su.se To: histling-l at mailman.rice.edu Subject: Re: [Histling-l] l vs. s, sh? Message body I haven?t systematicaly searched for sound changes, but whenever I come across a table or the like citing many of them at once, I usually save them in a file. Who knows what may come in handy some sunny day? For whatever it?s worth, here are the cases I have in that note file which might fit the bill: * Proto-Algonquian ? Arapaho: /?/ ? /?/ (Picard 1994:4) * Proto-Algonquian ? Blackfoot: /l/ ? /?/ (Berman 2006:365) * Proto-Algonquian ? Woods Cree: /l/ ? /?/ (Bakker 1996b:5) * proto-Austronesian ?? Basay: /l/ ? /c/ (Li 2004:367) * Proto-Min ? some Min dialects: /toneless l/ ? /?/ (Norman 1988:233) * Proto-Min ? some Western Min dialects: /toneless l/ ? /s/ (Norman 1988:233) * Proto-Ongamo-Maa ? Ngasa: /?/ ? /h/ (Vossen & Heine 1989:191-3) * proto-Quechua ? Argentinian Quechua of Santiago del Estero: /l?/ ? /?/ (Adelaar 2004:204) [Citing from memory, doesn't this characterise Argentinian Spanish as well?] * proto-Quechua ? some Quechua varieties of Argentina and Ecuador: /l?/ ? /?/ (Adelaar 2004:204) The IPA is in Unicode. I can provide the refs if anyone needs them. /mp _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l From linpb at hum.au.dk Wed Mar 30 13:58:48 2011 From: linpb at hum.au.dk (Peter Bakker) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 15:58:48 +0200 Subject: Histling-l Digest, Vol 47, Issue 11 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Laterals and sibilants: In Takelma, Sahaptian, Wakashan and Chemakuan languages, all spoken near Salish, laterals and sibilants can vary (1) depending on the person spoken to (Nootka crosseyed people, Quileute small men, etc.) (2) depending on the speaker in myths (e.g. Coyote sibilant, Grizzly Bear lateral, etc.) On the other hand, dentals are also frequently involved. See Mithun's Languages of native North America p. 273-276 for examples and sources. Peter Bakker -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l From pekka.sammallahti at oulu.fi Wed Mar 30 13:59:32 2011 From: pekka.sammallahti at oulu.fi (Pekka Sammallahti) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 16:59:32 +0300 Subject: l vs. s, sh? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The Portuguese development is pretty straightforward (postconsonantal l was more or less voiceless to begin with), and the development in Hanti/Ostyak took the opposite course *s > (shift from postdental to interdental) * > (lateralization + retraction) *L > (voicing) l. Pekka Sammallahti Quoting Marie-Lucie Tarpent : > > I find these "changes" from /l/ to a variety of sibilants (without a > suggestion of intermediate steps) hard to believe. I don't know > the language families in question, let alone the reasons for the > reconstruction of */l/ in the specific proto-languages, but could > the */l/ be from yet another proto-phoneme, such as a **dental, so > that the lateral and the sibilant might have a common ancestor, with > the */l/ reconstructed because of its preponderance within the > family rather than the phonetic plausibility of *lateral > sibilant? > Even assuming that */l/ is the correct reconstruction, it is one > thing to say that /s/ is the reflex of */l/ in language X, another > to say (or imply) that the change has been (directly) */l/ > /s/. > > (The Quechua example seems to be of a different type than the other > ones, since it involves a palatalized consonant, not the plain /l/). > > marie-lucie tarpent > > Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 13:42:02 +0200 > From: parkvall at ling.su.se > To: histling-l at mailman.rice.edu > Subject: Re: [Histling-l] l vs. s, sh? > > > > > > > > Message body > > > > I haven?t > systematicaly searched for sound changes, but whenever I come > across a table or > the like citing many of them at once, I usually save them in a > file. Who knows what may > come in handy some sunny day? For whatever it?s worth, here are > the cases I > have in that note file which might fit the bill: > > * Proto-Algonquian > ? Arapaho: /?/ ? /?/ > (Picard > 1994:4) > * Proto-Algonquian > ? Blackfoot: /l/ ? /?/ > (Berman > 2006:365) > * Proto-Algonquian > ? Woods Cree: /l/ ? /?/ > (Bakker 1996b:5) > * proto-Austronesian > ?? Basay: /l/ ? /c/ (Li > 2004:367) > * Proto-Min ? some Min dialects: /toneless l/ ? /?/ (Norman 1988:233) > * Proto-Min ? some Western Min dialects: > /toneless l/ ? /s/ (Norman > 1988:233) > * Proto-Ongamo-Maa ? Ngasa: /?/ ? /h/ (Vossen & Heine > 1989:191-3) > * proto-Quechua ? Argentinian Quechua of > Santiago del Estero: > /l?/ ? /?/ (Adelaar > 2004:204) [Citing from memory, doesn't this characterise > Argentinian Spanish as well?] > > > * proto-Quechua ? some Quechua varieties of > Argentina and Ecuador: > /l?/ ? /?/ (Adelaar > 2004:204) > > The IPA is in Unicode. I can provide the refs > if anyone needs > them. > > > > > /mp > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Histling-l mailing list > Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu > https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l From trecht at berkeley.edu Wed Mar 30 16:13:00 2011 From: trecht at berkeley.edu (Tom Recht) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 09:13:00 -0700 Subject: l vs. s, sh? Message-ID: Proto-Semitic is reconstructed as having had a voiceless lateral phoneme (or even two, plain and emphatic), which became [s] or [sh] in the daughter languages. I don't know if there's a consensus on this reconstruction, though. In any case, I would think the change [l] > sibilant often involves a voiceless lateral stage. Tom Recht _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l From William.Steed at anu.edu.au Wed Mar 30 22:19:44 2011 From: William.Steed at anu.edu.au (William Steed) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 09:19:44 +1100 Subject: l vs. s, sh? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Some Seiyap Yue Chinese varieties have voiceless laterals where other Yue varieties have sibilants - cognates like [si] vs. [hli]. I don't believe that the process of change has been studied in this case. William Steed School of Language Studies Australian National University ________________________________________ From: histling-l-bounces at mailman.rice.edu [histling-l-bounces at mailman.rice.edu] On Behalf Of Wright, Roger [Roger.Wright at liverpool.ac.uk] Sent: Wednesday, 30 March 2011 8:12 PM To: jess tauber; histling-l at mailman.rice.edu Subject: Re: [Histling-l] l vs. s, sh? Many Latin words beginning with [pl-] or [kl-] became Portuguese words beginning with the unvoiced palatal sibilant (a symbol I can't e-mail, but as in the "sh-" of English "shop"); e.g. Latin PLAGAM > Portuguese "chaga" ('wound'), CLAVEM > "chave" ('key'). The Castilian Spanish equivalents used to have the palatal lateral (roughly = the "lli" in English "million"); "llaga", "llave"; though these have since delateralized in many geographical areas. RW ________________________________________ From: histling-l-bounces at mailman.rice.edu [histling-l-bounces at mailman.rice.edu] On Behalf Of jess tauber [phonosemantics at earthlink.net] Sent: 29 March 2011 16:56 To: histling-l at mailman.rice.edu Subject: [Histling-l] l vs. s, sh? Hi folks. I've got a question- is historical connection between laterals and sibilants/shibilants common in the languages of the world? I've seen this type of thing as a sound symbolic alternation in a number of different families, but am ignorant about its appearance in comparisons when such alternations are not evident. In Interior Salish (Kuipers) *t'ak'l(a) refers to packing up provisions for a trip- the Yahgan equivalent is ta:kasa- Then I.S. (under root *tl'aq to prick, pin, skewer, stick in) there are forms that point to *tl'aq-ana7 for pocket, sack, bag. The Yahgan equivalent here is gvsanux a bag, sack, pocket. In both examples the Yahgan form has the sibilant where the Interior Salish has instead the lateral (either as phoneme or feature). Jess Tauber phonosemantics at earthlink.net _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l From mltarpent at hotmail.com Thu Mar 31 01:00:24 2011 From: mltarpent at hotmail.com (Marie-Lucie Tarpent) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 01:00:24 +0000 Subject: Histling-l Digest, Vol 47, Issue 11 Message-ID: I think that the *alternation* between laterals and sibilants in Takelma, etc is different from the alleged historical *changes* from /l/ to a sibilant brought up earlier. The phonetic difference between those categories (even where there is no phonological significance, as in Takelma which does not have the lateral fricative L in its phonological inventory) is consciously manipulated for stylistic purposes in non-normal speech (ie, in identifying the speech of animal characters during the recital or performance of legends), not in conversation or narrative. The Takelma alternation applies not to words per se but to special prefixes used to identify the speech of important animal characters (a feature it shares with some other languages of the NW coast area). In Sahaptian and Chinookan, on the other hand, some consonant phonemes occur in pairs or even triplets which alternate in the same words in order to convey stylistic features such as diminution or augmentation, and /s/and /L/ are part of the extensive Sahaptian consonant alternation pattern. In all those cases there is no evidence of phonological change from one phonetic category to the other in lexical items, between one historical period and another. marie-lucie Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 15:58:48 +0200 To: histling-l at mailman.rice.edu CC: histling-l at mailman.rice.edu From: linpb at hum.au.dk Subject: Re: [Histling-l] Histling-l Digest, Vol 47, Issue 11 Message body Laterals and sibilants: In Takelma, Sahaptian, Wakashan and Chemakuan languages, all spoken near Salish, laterals and sibilants can vary (1) depending on the person spoken to (Nootka crosseyed people, Quileute small men, etc.) (2) depending on the speaker in myths (e.g. Coyote sibilant, Grizzly Bear lateral, etc.) On the other hand, dentals are also frequently involved. See Mithun's Languages of native North America p. 273-276 for examples and sources. Peter Bakker _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Histling-l mailing list Histling-l at mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l