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<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT
face="Times New Roman">Nathan Hill wrote:<BR></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman">“Dear Historical Linguists. [...]My
neogrammarian heart tells me that sound changes are aware of phonetic
environments only and not part of speech categories.”</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman">I have high respect for the Neogrammarians,
but the statement above is a very strong one. It amounts to separate
completely phonetics from grammar and syntax (or morphoyntax). If, say, a
derivational suffix comes to modify the final part of a verbal root
</FONT><FONT face="Times New Roman">we can have a new basis in the word
formation rule. For instance OGk. Nom<EM>. gàla</EM> “milk”, Genit.
<EM>gàlak(t)os</EM> observes the rule that no OGk. word can end by a
stop consonant. This induces the morphologically bound sound change –k > 0
in the Nomin. A rule that does not apply to words such as <EM>galaktìzo
“</EM>I’m breast-feeded”, <EM>galaktokòmos “</EM>shepherd<EM>” etc. .</EM>On
its turn <EM>gala-,</EM> and not <EM>galak-,</EM></FONT><FONT
face="Times New Roman">can be the basis form for compounds such as
<EM>galathenòs </EM>“suckling child”.</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Best.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Paolo</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Prof.Paolo
Ramat<BR>Istituto Universitario di Studi Superiori (IUSS )<BR>Direttore del
Centro "Lingue d'Europa: tipologia, storia e sociolinguistica"
(LETiSS)<BR>Palazzo del Broletto - Piazza della Vittoria<BR><BR>27100
Pavia<BR>tel. ++390382375811<BR>fax ++390382375899</DIV>
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style="FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none">
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<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=sashavovin@gmail.com
href="mailto:sashavovin@gmail.com">Alexander Vovin</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, December 01, 2012 8:49 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=nathanwhill@gmail.com
href="mailto:nathanwhill@gmail.com">Nathan Hill</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Cc:</B> <A title=histling-l@mailman.rice.edu
href="mailto:histling-l@mailman.rice.edu">histling-l</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Histling-l] conditioning of Uto-Aztecan *p in
Nahuatl</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none">Dear
Nathan,<BR><BR>Very roughly speaking, but nouns and verbs behave very
differently in this respect in Japanese. Even within the verbal paradigm, older
grammaticalizations are different from more recent, although they can be traced
to very similar phonological forms, e,g., the paradigmaic form of the verb yom-
'to
count/read'<BR><BR>
Old Japanese Late Middle
Japanese
Modern
Japanese<BR>perfective
yo2mi1taru
yomitaru
yoNda<BR>desiderative
_____
yomitai
yomitai<BR><BR>Desiderative is much younger form than the perfective, and
although both are essentially identical phonologically. they show two very
different ref;exes in MJ.<BR><BR>Hope this helps,<BR><BR>Sasha<BR><BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 12:34 AM, Nathan Hill <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:nathanwhill@gmail.com"
target=_blank>nathanwhill@gmail.com</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote>Dear Historical Linguists,<BR><BR>In a paper about Tibetan I
am criticizing someone for proposing that<BR>the same segment became one thing
in nouns and another thing in verbs.<BR>My neogrammarian heart tells me that
sound changes are aware of<BR>phonetic environments only and not part of
speech categories. Such a<BR>thing is thus only possible if verbs are
phonetically different than<BR>nouns in a systematic way (which is of course
possible).<BR><BR>Anyhow, a reviewer tells me that proto-Uto-Aztecan initial
*p becomes<BR>zero in Nahuatl nouns but is preserved in verbs and cites the
pair<BR>(.-tl "water" vs -<A href="http://p.ca" target=_blank>p.ca</A> "to
wash"). The reviewer does not cite a<BR>discussion of this and I am totally at
sea in the Uto-Aztecan<BR>literature. But, if this is an uncontroversial part
of Uto-Aztecan<BR>historical phonology surely it has given rise to the
same<BR>methodological concerns that I raise (sound change should
apply<BR>blindly).<BR><BR>I would be very grateful for any discussion of this
or advice on<BR>treatments of this question in literature.<BR><BR>with
gratitude,<BR>Nathan<BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Histling-l
mailing list<BR><A
href="mailto:Histling-l@mailman.rice.edu">Histling-l@mailman.rice.edu</A><BR><A
href="https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l"
target=_blank>https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><BR
clear=all><BR>-- <BR><BR>Alexander Vovin<BR>Professor of East Asian Languages
and Literatures<BR>Department of East Asian Languages and
Literatures<BR>University of Hawai'i at Manoa,
USA<BR>========================<BR>iustitiam magni facite, infirmos
protegite<BR>
<P>
<HR>
_______________________________________________<BR>Histling-l mailing
list<BR>Histling-l@mailman.rice.edu<BR>https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/histling-l<BR></DIV></DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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