From jtucker at starband.net Fri Jan 27 17:08:27 2006 From: jtucker at starband.net (Jan Tucker) Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 12:08:27 -0500 Subject: Create a language course of your own and take it with you. In-Reply-To: <20051227060411.36261B6EB@listserv.arizona.edu> Message-ID: Hay Mia and all, Do you want to check out my model website at http://nativepeople.net/moodle? I've got some Hot potato quizzes, with sound bites [see Cherokee I and II], some are drop and drag others are sound flashcards. Some are in the Cherokee font with sound bites. Though I need some help translating the directions since everything comes out in the font, when I use it... lol. How do you say delete in Cherokee, I've used 'yes' for 'next' and 'no' for 'Delete' with the flash cards [note you can delete the ones you've learned? The grading comes out all wrong still, I need a Cherokee speaker who is a programmer. Anyway, its all still experimental, but I'm making progress learning how to set up and use the Moodle courseware and hot potatoes features with the courseware. I'll be ready soon to go more public, and am ready now to invite other teachers who want to try out online learning software for teaching language and culture. I'm ready for anyone who wants to try out the software and learn along with me, experimental type teachers WELCOME! What I have figured out is that this website can be a wonderful supplement to a live course. I just finished taking Cherokee I online LIVE and have designed this course now based on the lesson plan of the live course adding practice opportunities and all the resources I can find needed to learn. For example, in the first week I've put the syllabary voice file and the viewable syllabary in resources, and provided directions, so a student can come in and open up the viewable syllabary and listen to the spoken one at the same time. Then I've instructed them to see and say it along with the native speaker. I could make some more practice quizzes for this first week, but I haven't had time!!!!! I've been experimenting also with the oCherokee software for typing Cherokee without having to memorize the key board and find it works just fine except in certain three letter syllables like tsa, tsi, and the qua...quv group. I think it's a programmatic problem since dla...dlv all work. Cherokee II starts Jan 9th live, and there will be more work with the syllabary. I'm doing this participant observation language learning myself, so that I can see what it's like to learn an indigenous language from the student's perspective, and design an online course to support and promote learning of that language. I invite now other experimental teachers to come in and design a course for their language. The beauty of this model right now is that it is portable, so that anything a teacher designs can taken with them to their own website. If they like the software then the teacher can use Moodle open source courseware for free. The software and course a teacher builds is downloadable, and there is a really great supportive developer and teacher community of international scope using Moodle. I have used the community many times to solve problems as I have been learning myself how to create and manage a website, administer the courseware, and design the content of a language course. So, I invite interested experimental type teachers to contact me jtucker at nativepeople.net, and I'll make a shell course on my site, so YOU can create your own language course online, enroll students in it and teach it. Jan -----Original Message----- From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU]On Behalf Of Mia Kalish Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 1:04 AM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [ILAT] Synchronized Multimedia Integration Language (fwd) This is curious, because right now, streaming audio is a proprietary format, and not many people have readers. It also has the ugly behavior of loading after all the rest of the action has already happened. I think it's okay to have a language where you can specify simultaneity, but making it happen with streaming audio may be a whole 'nother kettle of fish. Mia -----Original Message----- From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of phil cash cash Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 8:28 AM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: [ILAT] Synchronized Multimedia Integration Language (fwd) 14 December 2005 Synchronized Multimedia Integration Language http://www.managinginformation.com/news/content_show_full.php?id=4549 The World Wide Web Consortium has released "Synchronized Multimedia Integration Language (SMIL 2.1)" as a W3C Recommendation. With SMIL (pronounced "smile"), authors create multimedia presentations and animations integrating streaming audio and video with graphics and text. Version 2.1 features include a new Mobile Profile and an Extended Mobile Profile with enhanced timing, layout and animation capabilities. "Today, W3C makes good on the promise of first class multimedia presentations for the mobile Web," said Chris Lilley (W3C). http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/REC-SMIL2-20051213/ http://www.w3.org/2005/12/smil-pressrelease.html.en http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/ From jtucker at starband.net Fri Jan 27 17:43:27 2006 From: jtucker at starband.net (Jan Tucker) Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 12:43:27 -0500 Subject: LSA -- Jan 5-8 In-Reply-To: <20051227171939.9301ABDD5@listserv.arizona.edu> Message-ID: Mia Congratulations on your publication! Will there be an online copy? Jan -----Original Message----- From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU]On Behalf Of Mia Kalish Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 12:19 PM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [ILAT] LSA -- Jan 5-8 I'm glad you posted, too, Sue. It is nice to know what is going on in our community, and too often (to my mind) people think what they are doing isn't important enough to "bother" others with. But I LOVE knowing who is going to be there, what they are doing, what to plan for. And I love the excitement and anticipation of knowing I am going to see people who are often too far removed geographically to see at any other time. OBTW: I published my First, Yep, count 'em, 1, paper. It is Immersion multimedia for adult Chiricahua language learners, In New Review of Media and Hypermedia, December 2005 special issue, if anyone would like to read it. It is the theoretical basis for the software I make J. Mia ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Susan Penfield Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 10:09 AM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [ILAT] LSA -- Jan 5-8 Mia and all, I didn't actually intend to post to ILAT, but I'm glad I did. There are a number of good papers which will be presented (including Mia's I'm sure) at the LSA national meetings in Alburquerque in January (5-8). I hope many people will try to attend. The SSILA (Society for the Study of Indigenous Languages ) is being held in concert with LSA that weekend as well. Our 'special session' is aimed at showcasing community work and community language specialists in this national forum. Hope others can make it! Looking forward to seeing you there, Mia! Happy New Year to all! Susan On 12/27/05, Mia Kalish < MiaKalish at learningforpeople.us> wrote: Hi, Sue & Everyone, I am going to be at the conference. I'm doing a workshop, maybe with one of my colleagues, on how to gather information to support the kinds of revitalization materials that keep languages off museum shelves and in the community (one of my friends from Wales dreamed up the "in the community and off the museum shelves" metaphor. I thought it was apt.) I/we are presenting Friday evening. Mia ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Susan Penfield Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 9:43 AM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: [ILAT] LSA -- Jan 5-8 Hi all, Just to remind everyone of our special session -- I really hope we get some attendance, given that we are the last on the list -- But I have heard from a number of linguists who plan to stay and hear what we all have to say. There are some guidelines for handouts on the LSA website under a link for 'paper guidelines' See http://www.lsadc.org/info/meet-annual.cfm I have mentioned that part of our discussion would be devoted to how documentation feeds into revitalization so I hope that you all give that some thought/time. Otherwise, I'm just looking forward to an active discussion and to finding out what everyone is up to these days! Please forward this to any other participants -- I don't have Mary Eunice's address or Brenda's...Thanks! Best Wishes for a Happy New Year and see you all soon! Susan -- Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. Department of English Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program American Indian Language Development Institute Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 -- Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. Department of English Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program American Indian Language Development Institute Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jtucker at starband.net Sat Jan 28 21:25:04 2006 From: jtucker at starband.net (Jan Tucker) Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 16:25:04 -0500 Subject: Tsa-la-gi syllabary In-Reply-To: <20051228205443.79157C5A3@listserv.arizona.edu> Message-ID: Mia, the syllabary is awesome! I couldn't figure out how to "drop it into a web page though. so I couldn't see it till now. I would love to be able to put it on my site at native people.net, can you help? If not I'll just link to it from your site. I am impressed. Well done, I am so impressed. I can't wait to share it with other students. This is so cool. I saw this same kind of thing done for Dakota or Lakota language somewhere on the net. Awesome. What did the online Tsalagi teacher think of it? What would be really cool to do with this is to take out the phonetic and have it just the Tsalagi syllabary. After your dissertation that is,I don't want to take any more of your time, but I just love it. I could type up a syllabary without the phonetics. Jan -----Original Message----- From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU]On Behalf Of Mia Kalish Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 3:55 PM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: [ILAT] Tsa-la-gi syllabary Hi, everyone, An interesting thing happened yesterday: Jan Tucker and I were talking about the asynchrony of the Tsa-la-gi syllabary and the recording of the sounds as an MP3. It seemed a reasonable idea to put them together so it was easier to relate the 85 sounds to the 85 symbols. J So here it is. http://learningforpeople.us/Tsa-la-gi.htm Mia -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU Sun Jan 1 07:00:27 2006 From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash) Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 00:00:27 -0700 Subject: fwd msg from Resa Message-ID: Hi, all. I've followed these posts with great interest--for a non-technology person--and I've really enjoyed seeing everyone's sites. It's amazing what you are all able to do. And these sites must reach a lot of people. Thank you for sharing. Katherine--I'd like to contact you off list. Will you send me a message at cranem @ ecu.edu? Thanks. And Phil--thank you so much for all the work you do to maintain the list. Aren't we coming up on your second year??? Resa From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU Mon Jan 2 17:23:02 2006 From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 10:23:02 -0700 Subject: Raiders To Broadcast Game In Navajo (fwd) Message-ID: Raiders To Broadcast Game In Navajo http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=raiders&id=3763183 Dec. 27 - BCN - Although local fans may have given up on the Oakland Raiders this year because of their lousy record, the football team is hoping to boost its radio audience by having its final game of the year broadcast in Navajo. The Raiders have one of the worst records in the National Football League, with four wins and 11 losses, and rumors are swirling that they will fire their coach, Martinez native Norv Turner, after only his second season on the job. But team officials say they're excited that the team's game against the New York Giants on Saturday will be broadcast on radio station KTNN, which is based in Window Rock, Ariz., and bills itself as "The Voice of the Navajo Nation." The station, which is at 660 on the AM dial, broadcasts a 50,000-watt signal that reaches the entire western United States and northern Mexico. Saturday's broadcast will mark the second time that a Raiders game will be heard in Navajo. The team's Nov. 13 home game against the Denver Broncos was also broadcast in the Native American language, and Raiders officials say it was well received. Raiders chief executive Amy Trask said in a statement, "This presents an exciting opportunity to unite the Raider Nation with the voice of the Navajo nation. This association is yet another example of our commitment to our global fan base and our ever-expanding multicultural initiatives." L.A. Williams and Ernie Manuelito, winners of the 1996 Native American Journalism Association award for the best bilingual sportscasters, will call the action for KTNN, as they did for the Raiders-Broncos game. Jay Allen, the station's program director, said, "KTNN has been broadcasting as the Voice of the Navajo Nation for the last 20 years and is proud to be broadcasting the Raiders game in the Navajo language for a second time." The Raiders have broadcast every regular-season game in Spanish for the past four years. In addition, the team offers exclusive online content in Spanish at http://www.raidersenespanol.com, and in 2004 became the first NFL team to publish original content in four languages, adding Chinese and German at http://www.raidersinchinese.com and http://www.raidersingerman.com. The Raiders also offer an international T-shirt that features a famous phrase by owner Al Davis: "Just Win Baby!" The T-shirt, the first of its kind in the NFL, features 11 different languages: Spanish, German, Italian, Chinese (Mandarin), Japanese, Korean, French, Greek, Tagalog, Russian and English. >> Video On Demand: Build Your Own Newscast Copyright 2005 by Bay City News, Inc. Republication, re-transmission or reuse without the express written consent of Bay City News, Inc. Is prohibited. From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU Mon Jan 2 17:36:47 2006 From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 10:36:47 -0700 Subject: Australian Cinema Circa 2006 Message-ID: excerpt from "Australian Cinema Circa 2006" http://www.theepochtimes.com/news/6-1-1/36398.html Ten Canoes – tragi-comedy/drama. Jamie Gulpilil (son of David Gulpilil) stars in this Australian Indigenous film. Great lengths have been taken to produce a set for the Ganalbingu mythical past, and to portray life as accurately as possible in northeast Arnhem Land (Northern Territory) centuries before the influence of western culture. Ten Canoes is a cautionary tale of love, lust and revenge gone wrong that, incidental to its central story line, also explores something of the "old ways". Written/Directed/Produced by Rolf de Heer, the film has a budget of just $A2.2 million. Rolf de Heer has written and directed many highly acclaimed award-winning feature films such as, The Tracker with David Gulpilil and Gary Sweet, Bad Boy Bubby, The Old Man Who Read Love Stories, and Alexandra's Project. Extraordinarily, this is the first feature film to be shot entirely in Aboriginal language (predominantly Ganalbingu) and local Indigenous people have been involved in most of levels of production. It features English storytelling work by David Gulpilil and is subtitled in Ganalbingu language. This film has a uniquely remarkable production background and, above all, is my most eagerly awaited release of the year. From jtucker at starband.net Mon Jan 2 19:23:19 2006 From: jtucker at starband.net (Jan Tucker) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 14:23:19 -0500 Subject: Australian Cinema Circa 2006 In-Reply-To: <20060102103647.0wjmugwo4cwoswoc@www.email.arizona.edu> Message-ID: Phil, I just bought Walk About, a film I haven't been able to get out of my mind since I first saw it. Hadn't realized there were other films also [The Tracker with David Gulpilil and Gary Sweet] that David Gulpilil and now his son Jamie is part of such a feature film shot entirely in aboriginal language. I can't wait to see it. This is one of the many highlights of belonging to this list server, The great news about projects like this one. Jan -----Original Message----- From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU]On Behalf Of phil cash cash Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 12:37 PM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: [ILAT] Australian Cinema Circa 2006 excerpt from "Australian Cinema Circa 2006" http://www.theepochtimes.com/news/6-1-1/36398.html Ten Canoes – tragi-comedy/drama. Jamie Gulpilil (son of David Gulpilil) stars in this Australian Indigenous film. Great lengths have been taken to produce a set for the Ganalbingu mythical past, and to portray life as accurately as possible in northeast Arnhem Land (Northern Territory) centuries before the influence of western culture. Ten Canoes is a cautionary tale of love, lust and revenge gone wrong that, incidental to its central story line, also explores something of the "old ways". Written/Directed/Produced by Rolf de Heer, the film has a budget of just $A2.2 million. Rolf de Heer has written and directed many highly acclaimed award-winning feature films such as, The Tracker with David Gulpilil and Gary Sweet, Bad Boy Bubby, The Old Man Who Read Love Stories, and Alexandra's Project. Extraordinarily, this is the first feature film to be shot entirely in Aboriginal language (predominantly Ganalbingu) and local Indigenous people have been involved in most of levels of production. It features English storytelling work by David Gulpilil and is subtitled in Ganalbingu language. This film has a uniquely remarkable production background and, above all, is my most eagerly awaited release of the year. From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU Wed Jan 4 18:39:16 2006 From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 11:39:16 -0700 Subject: O'odham linguist comes to Washington (fwd) Message-ID: O'odham linguist comes to Washington © Indian Country Today January 04, 2006. All Rights Reserved Posted: January 04, 2006 by: Philip Burnham / Indian Country Today http://www.indiancountry.com/content.cfm?id=1096412202 WASHINGTON - Hearing a phrase of Tohono O'odham in Washington is like catching sight of a rare and beautiful bird. It's a language of hushed, lilting sounds, perfect for making songs about rain and corn or writing poems about desert clouds. That's how Ofelia Zepeda, linguist and writer, began a public talk at the National Museum of the American Indian one evening late this fall - in O'odham, her native tongue. She was in town to attend meetings on Native language preservation and to sign copies of ''Home: Native People in the Southwest,'' a companion book she co-authored for a recent exhibit at the Heard Museum in Phoenix. Like many people native to the Southwest, Zepeda's life is a braid of different languages and lands. Her parents crossed over from Sonora, Mexico in the 1950s and settled on the periphery of the O'odham reservation in Arizona. Zepeda was born in a wooden row house in Stanfield, surrounded by fields of cotton, and didn't speak any English until she was 7. She told her audience she felt ''too lazy'' for the labor of picking cotton and decided to get an education instead, becoming the first in her family to finish high school. In fact, she may be the first person in American history to earn a doctorate in linguistics and a prestigious MacArthur Fellowship for being too ''lazy.'' Zepeda is co-founder and director of the American Indian Language Development Institute in Tucson, Ariz., a summer residential program that trains teachers how to instruct Native languages and integrate them into school curricula. Endangered languages are a global problem, Zepeda urged. ''Language shift,'' which began in earnest with European contact in the Americas, has only lately been perceived as a serious threat to tribes. English speakers don't think much about language, she said flatly, ''the way they don't think about breathing.'' Other communities fear their last linguistic gasp is near at hand. Zepeda's tribe numbers about 22,000, half of whom speak O'odham, a percentage many tribes would envy. Not all of its speakers are even bilingual. Zepeda recounted translating in a city court recently for an O'odham in her 20s who couldn't speak English, a sign the tribal language is not the sole preserve of elders. But young people aren't learning the language at home, said Zepeda, and in school they get stuck in O'odham classes that are isolated from the rest of the curriculum. Asked about the future of her mother tongue, she gazed around the auditorium and replied sheepishly, ''I can't lie, because my friends are here.'' Zepeda went on to explain she is still waiting for tribal leaders to do something decisive about language loss. They did do something about the old tribal name, Papago, a word derived from the O'odham phrase for ''bean eaters.'' ''I haven't heard that word in a long time,'' Zepeda laughed. She mused that a novice speaker probably approached a tribal member long ago and mixed up the question ''Who are you?'' with ''What are you eating?'' - and his answer stuck ever after as their public name. In 1986 the tribe put forward its own words for ''desert people'' - Tohono O'odham - and reclaimed its traditional name through an act of Congress. A practical writing system for O'odham, devised in the 1960s, has official status. But aside from Zepeda's books and an occasional article in the tribal newspaper, the script is confined to scholarly efforts. ''The nice thing about language,'' Zepeda said, ''is that it's something that can be taught.'' In fact, Native Hawaiians and the Maori of New Zealand are pulling languages back from the edge of extinction. But she is wary of what could happen even to a seemingly strong language like O'odham if nothing is done to stop the persistent trend of language drift. A linguist at the University of Arizona, Zepeda sharpens her language skills as a working poet. Her poems, often about women, range from an elegy for an aging centenarian with floor-length white hair to a fond recollection of the poet's mother, whom the family knew as the ''best tortilla maker west of the Mississippi.'' Sometimes it's a phrase, sometimes an idea that moves Zepeda; it might be 20 years before it's ready to be written down. She writes in two languages, as different from one another as a hawk and a thrush. An O'odham poem rendered in English, she advised, is more a complement than a translation. For all her learning and education, Zepeda, like many O'odham, lacks ''papers.'' She was born at home and has no official documentation of her origins. After the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, she's even had trouble traveling to Mexico, the land of her ancestors, without an affidavit testifying to her birth. ''Who was there when I breathed a first breath?'' she read to the audience from one of her poems. ''Who knew then I would need witnesses?'' Her parents, illiterate in English, ''spoke a language much too civil for writing,'' Zepeda said. Those words brought tears to the eyes of a woman who has picked cotton, published a grammar of O'odham, established an international name and fought the battle to keep a soaring language alive. From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU Wed Jan 4 18:42:19 2006 From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 11:42:19 -0700 Subject: Oneida language is on the move (fwd) Message-ID: Oneida language is on the move Posted: January 04, 2006 by: Melissa Gorelick http://www.indiancountry.com/content.cfm?id=1096412204 [Photo courtesy Oneida Indian Nation -- Ray George, Thames Oneida, is one of two ''native-fluent'' speakers of Oneida who was brought in and trained by Berlitz International to help start the Oneida Indian Nation of New York's language program. He assists with classes as the instructors become more fluent.] ONEIDA NATION HOMELANDS, N.Y. - Early on a wintry Monday, an Oneida classroom is filled with chirping voices and the smell of coffee. The morning's class is arriving. Eight women chat against the room's drawing-peppered walls while overhead, clock faces show the hours of the day in Oneida and over one woman's shoulder a sun and cloud demonstrate types of weather. Sunny Shenandoah teaches today's lesson, although the women take turns leading the class. She asks a question in Oneida, pointing to drawings taped to a whiteboard behind her. The other women answer, giggling and correcting each other's mistakes. Almost two years into the Oneida Nation's newest language initiative, classes have an easy, homey feel. Over coffee and chatter it's easy to forget that the program is one of the nation's most innovative efforts at reviving a dying Native language. Shenandoah's class is built on an immersion framework developed by Berlitz International, a well-known language education company. Following the lead of the Lakota Nation, the Oneidas are only the second Indian community to contract with Berlitz. They got the idea to find an immersion program by visiting a Mohawk program, said Sheri Beglen, an advanced member of the class and an experienced Oneida teacher. The Mohawks were already using immersion (though not through a contracted company), and Beglen said that seeing it in action was an enlightening experience. ''It was amazing to see little [Mohawk] kids walking around speaking their language,'' she said. Such a thing did not exist at the Oneida Nation. Shenandoah said that before this initiative began, there were only two families in the region who spoke any Oneida natively. Attempts to teach the language to non-Native speakers were failing. Deniz Ghrewati, a Berlitz instructor and spokesman, said that creating a comfort level in teachers is an essential part of the Berlitz program, what she calls the ''direct method.'' Before Berlitz, teachers with only minimal knowledge of the language were instructing others. ''Our goal was to get them thinking in the language,'' she said. ''By the end [of the first class] they were laughing and joking in Oneida. It was very emotional.'' Since their initial 25-week Oneida immersion course, the teachers' education continues in classes like Shenandoah's, which perpetuate this comfort and ease. Designing a program that led to this stage of immersion was no small feat, however, because the Berlitz method relies heavily on using ''native-fluent'' instructors. When dealing with a language spoken by only several hundred people on the North American continent, this isn't easy. Berlitz took revolutionary steps to find native Oneida speakers, said Ghrewati. It contacted a group of Oneidas living in the Thames River region of Canada, where Oneida is more commonly spoken, and flew two speakers to central New York to start the course. Before starting to teach, the two Thames Oneidas were coached extensively in the direct method of teaching. The instruction consists of listening and repetition, along with visual cues, like the ones Shenandoah uses in class. Ray George is one of the Thames Oneidas who began the central New York course. George has remained in New York to assist with the classes as the teachers become more and more fluent. He supports the women when they make mistakes, said Beglen. George said that the New York Oneidas, while new to the language, are making strides that surpass even other native-speaking Oneida groups. ''Overall, in the language being learned in the three Oneida groups, they are doing the best,'' he said. The New Yorkers are also some of the only Oneidas learning to read and write the language. Shenandoah said that the work with Berlitz has been exciting and personally rewarding. ''I just heard about this program and knew right away it's what I wanted to do,'' she said. ''I feel really proud of myself.'' Last summer, the Berlitz-revived Oneida language reached young Oneidas for the first time through several pilot programs. Shenandoah said that getting the language to kids early is the most effective way to create real fluency in the community. ''I'd really like to get it into schools,'' she said. The Stockbridge Valley Central School District, in Stockbridge Valley, N.Y., is just seven miles south of the Oneida Nation. Ten percent of the district's students are Oneida, said Superintendent Randy Richards. The district incorporates many aspects of the Oneida culture into the curriculum, he said, but so far it has been unable to integrate an Oneida language class into the schools. With the newfound success of the Oneida language program, that may all change. Richards said he would be very interested in employing a fluent Oneida speaker to teach children the language. Having finished their work, the women wrap up the day's lesson. They swing on their coats and purses, still discussing the verb ''to go'' as they chatter out the door. It's an appropriate verb, considering the dynamic nature of the Oneidas' new language plans. The program is going places, and fast. From MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US Wed Jan 4 19:54:19 2006 From: MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US (Mia Kalish) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 12:54:19 -0700 Subject: Keola Donaghy's very excellent paper In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Keola, I want to thank you very much for posting the link to this paper. I am writing one for my paper & workshop at SSILA this week-end, and having your excellent description of your experiences with technology for the implementation of your online classes was extremely useful in supporting my point about people are using technology to revitalize their languages. I think this is a very excellent paper (and I think everyone should read it). Best, Mia -----Original Message----- From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Keola Donaghy Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 12:02 PM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [ILAT] Informal Survey of Indigenous Online or Distance Learning Language Pro Aloha Jan, here's an online version on a paper I delivered at the DigitalStream conference at CSU-Monterey Bay a few years ago. It describes the development of our online Hawaiian classes. While there have been some changes, they have mostly been administrative. One major difference in the class delivery is that the online class now takes twice as much time to cover the same amount of material as our online classes. What is covered in one semester on campus is now covered in two online. That change has resulted in a far higher retention rate. http://www2.hawaii.edu/~donaghy/eng/digitalstream2003.html Keola jtucker at starband.net ma Friday, December 30, 2005 ma 8:37 PM ua käkau ‘o -1000: >Consider this an informal request for you to share with ILAT the work >you've done in teaching language from a distance. > >Tell us what you've been doing, and why, and when you got started >teaching language from a distance. > >Share your methods and the technology you use for delivery. > >Please feel free to share any lessons learned, advice or insights. > ======================================================================= Keola Donaghy Assistant Professor of Hawaiian Studies Ka Haka 'Ula O Ke'elikolani keola at leoki.uhh.hawaii.edu University of Hawai'i at Hilo http://www2.hawaii.edu/~donaghy/ ======================================================================= From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU Thu Jan 5 05:11:33 2006 From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 22:11:33 -0700 Subject: new font Message-ID: fyi, take a look at this interesting new font. Philcc Charis SIL Font Home http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&item_id=CharisSILfont From lachler at UNM.EDU Fri Jan 6 13:01:07 2006 From: lachler at UNM.EDU (Jordan Lachler) Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 04:01:07 -0900 Subject: flash sites Message-ID: For the flashmongers out there, here are a couple of sites doing some interesting stuff with flash and indigenous language learning. Gaelic http://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/alba/foghlam/beag_air_bheag/ Sami http://www.ur.se/ur/sok/frameset_web.html?/samasta/index.html Tlingit http://www.sealaskaheritage.org/programs/language_resources.htm --- Jordan From jtucker at starband.net Sat Jan 7 00:38:35 2006 From: jtucker at starband.net (Jan Tucker) Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 19:38:35 -0500 Subject: flash sites In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.1.20060104041150.045c8d80@mail.unm.edu> Message-ID: Thanks Jordan, I really enjoyed exploring all the different ways that flash can be used to teach language. I want to learn how to use it now. Do you know if there is any sharing of formats so you could use one format and plug in another language? This might be a naive question on my part, but I'm asking anyway. The sounds of Gaelic, Sami, and Inuit I believe where wonderful to hear and compare. This is some amazing work in my view. What a fun way to use the internet to learn language. Jan -----Original Message----- From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU]On Behalf Of Jordan Lachler Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 8:01 AM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: [ILAT] flash sites For the flashmongers out there, here are a couple of sites doing some interesting stuff with flash and indigenous language learning. Gaelic http://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/alba/foghlam/beag_air_bheag/ Sami http://www.ur.se/ur/sok/frameset_web.html?/samasta/index.html Tlingit http://www.sealaskaheritage.org/programs/language_resources.htm --- Jordan From isbae at UAA.ALASKA.EDU Sat Jan 7 01:16:57 2006 From: isbae at UAA.ALASKA.EDU (Brett Encelewski) Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 16:16:57 -0900 Subject: flash sites Message-ID: I would be very interested in knowing if the webmasters would be willing to share--as well--it would cut down on training, planning, and implementing costs as well as time. If these orgs are willing to share (for the greater good) it would keeps us from reinventing the wheel. > I want to learn how to use it now. > Do you > know if there is any sharing of formats so you could use one > format and plug > in another language? This might be a naive question on my part, > but I'm > asking anyway. BRETT A. ENCELEWSKI Language Archivist Kenaitze Indian Tribe, IRA Kenai, AK "A people with no history has no past, and therefore no future." --Robert A. Heinlen "Think globally, dream universally." --Unknown ----- Original Message ----- From: Jan Tucker Date: Friday, January 6, 2006 3:38 pm Subject: Re: [ILAT] flash sites > Thanks Jordan, I really enjoyed exploring all the different ways > that flash > can be used to teach language. I want to learn how to use it now. > Do you > know if there is any sharing of formats so you could use one > format and plug > in another language? This might be a naive question on my part, > but I'm > asking anyway. > > The sounds of Gaelic, Sami, and Inuit I believe where wonderful to > hear and > compare. This is some amazing work in my view. What a fun way to > use the > internet to learn language. > > Jan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Indigenous Languages and Technology > [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU]On Behalf Of Jordan Lachler > Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 8:01 AM > To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > Subject: [ILAT] flash sites > > > For the flashmongers out there, here are a couple of sites doing some > interesting stuff with flash and indigenous language learning. > > Gaelic > http://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/alba/foghlam/beag_air_bheag/ > > Sami > http://www.ur.se/ur/sok/frameset_web.html?/samasta/index.html > > Tlingit > http://www.sealaskaheritage.org/programs/language_resources.htm > > --- > Jordan > From MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US Sun Jan 8 03:45:45 2006 From: MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US (Mia Kalish) Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 20:45:45 -0700 Subject: flash sites In-Reply-To: <33d87233c69b.33c69b33d872@uaa.alaska.edu> Message-ID: Hello Brent in Kenai. I almost made it to Kenai a few years ago . . . hope to make it to AK sometime . . . I'm willing to share, even develop, but I don't want to do stuff that uses a bridge language. I think it's bad form. It also doesn't provide the opportunity for the brain to develop knowledge of syntactic and morphological patterns. The prime goal of 2L<-->Bridge is the 2L<-->Bridge relation. This doesn't help develop speakers. Flash forms could be developed for "plug-ins", but not easily for languages that use special fonts, since they have to be broken apart and regrouped into symbols, which I guess could be scripted, although selecting the text would be tricky. . . but then, the person using the plug in also has to be able to "copy" the language into the Flash environment. . . usually the fonts are the problem, because a) specialty fonts don't map to regular fonts, frequently because people have used the number keys; b) because without the break apart I mentioned, the user has to have the font on their machine to display the font correctly . . .(Flash 8 might have an imbed, but this is another sophisticated scripting option if the procedure is to be externalized for plug-in-ability). Sounds like a pain to me, and certainly not something I (personally) would want to spend my time on, since there are so much more interesting things to do. On the other hand. . . . I think it would be easier - and certainly more fun (at least for me) if there was a community who worked on the materials together. That way, people could have the fun of working together, software wouldn't have to be developed that tried to imagine how it might be used without knowing who all the users would be, and people wouldn't have to develop all the different expertises (See? I made up a word! Isn't it nice?) to be able to get their language projects off the ground. Also, as a community, we could develop some really interesting animated games that could work so people not only learned the language, but also the syntax and morphology. As a community, we would have the benefit of all that creativity. I met a man at the conference, he's Miami, and he did some cool flash-card games for learning morphology. And it worked; the kids were able to figure out the patterns without someone having to hammer them into their heads. This would be cool, and the games could be reusable for all languages with particular forms. With lots of formlets, people could pick and choose to suit their individual languages. For example, both Miami and Southern Athapascan have a collection of words that are effectively stems and cannot be used correctly without the personal prefix. So a Body Part game could be used for Miami, Chiricahua, Lipan, Navajo, and Mescalero and all the other languages that have this form. See? I have number games on my website at LearningForPeople.us that work for Welsh, Estonian, Spanish, English, and maybe soon Navajo and Apache. It takes about 6 hours to do the car puzzle and the 6-format number practice. So if people can do the numbers 1-100 in their languages, and they can do the recordings of the numbers and send them to me appropriately labeled, they can have games in a few days. Is that a good share? Mia -----Original Message----- From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Brett Encelewski Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 6:17 PM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [ILAT] flash sites I would be very interested in knowing if the webmasters would be willing to share--as well--it would cut down on training, planning, and implementing costs as well as time. If these orgs are willing to share (for the greater good) it would keeps us from reinventing the wheel. > I want to learn how to use it now. > Do you > know if there is any sharing of formats so you could use one > format and plug > in another language? This might be a naive question on my part, > but I'm > asking anyway. BRETT A. ENCELEWSKI Language Archivist Kenaitze Indian Tribe, IRA Kenai, AK "A people with no history has no past, and therefore no future." --Robert A. Heinlen "Think globally, dream universally." --Unknown ----- Original Message ----- From: Jan Tucker Date: Friday, January 6, 2006 3:38 pm Subject: Re: [ILAT] flash sites > Thanks Jordan, I really enjoyed exploring all the different ways > that flash > can be used to teach language. I want to learn how to use it now. > Do you > know if there is any sharing of formats so you could use one > format and plug > in another language? This might be a naive question on my part, > but I'm > asking anyway. > > The sounds of Gaelic, Sami, and Inuit I believe where wonderful to > hear and > compare. This is some amazing work in my view. What a fun way to > use the > internet to learn language. > > Jan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Indigenous Languages and Technology > [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU]On Behalf Of Jordan Lachler > Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 8:01 AM > To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > Subject: [ILAT] flash sites > > > For the flashmongers out there, here are a couple of sites doing some > interesting stuff with flash and indigenous language learning. > > Gaelic > http://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/alba/foghlam/beag_air_bheag/ > > Sami > http://www.ur.se/ur/sok/frameset_web.html?/samasta/index.html > > Tlingit > http://www.sealaskaheritage.org/programs/language_resources.htm > > --- > Jordan > From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU Sun Jan 8 06:32:17 2006 From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash) Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 23:32:17 -0700 Subject: Keeping a language alive (fwd) Message-ID: Keeping a language alive Squamish Elders circle around the issue Saturday, January 7, 2006 By Reporter Jane Emerick Special to the Chief http://www.squamishchief.com/madison%5CWQuestion.nsf/0/298A8C1658543744882570EE00247B9B?OpenDocument Only two elders in the Squamish Valley retain the ability to fluently speak Squamish Nation’s language. Alex Williams and Addie Kermeen are the two remaining Squamish Valley citizens who can still speak their native language, and they’re trying to pass on their knowledge. Several Squamish Valley elders are working towards teaching their people and the community about the Squamish Nation culture. And they say their native language plays a large role in this education. “You can’t teach our culture without our language,” said Shirley (Hum-Te-Ya) Toman. “Teaching our children in English makes it harder.” Thanks to residential schools and the Canadian government’s history of trying to assimilate the First Nations Peoples, the language has been virtually wiped out. In the schools, First Nation’s children were not allowed to speak their native languages and would be punished for doing so. “You were strapped or put in the closet,” said Toman, who spent five years at St. Paul’s residential school in North Vancouver. “Some had their tongues pierced with a pin and told it was so they would remember to not speak their language.” Toman said she had already lost the language when she attended residential school because she was the second generation of attendees and her parents had been told to not teach their children their native tongue. “We didn’t learn the language because it would threaten our living standards at the schools,” she said. “By not knowing the language we couldn’t be punished for speaking it at the schools.” Both Kermeen and Williams were able to avoid attending the confines of Canada’s residential schools by escaping the Provincial police who enforced First Nation’s children to attend residential schools from 1879 to 1986. “They hid me away,” said Williams, speaking of his parents and the elders in his community. Toman, Kermeem, and Williams are all members of the Squamish Valley Elder’s Circle, who came together, along with six others, 14 years ago to help heal the suffering they endured at the residential schools. “I lost everything my parents taught me at those schools,” said Marjery (Lats-Mat) Natrall, a Squamish Elder who attended St. Paul’s. “And once you loose it you can never get it back.” Bob Baker, a Squamish Elder, spent seven years at St. Michael’s residential school in Alert Bay and said the government went so far as to split up children from the same communities so they wouldn’t be able to speak to each other in their different native languages. “In order to get our people out of the language and the culture they moved us to where nobody spoke our language,” he said. “My Dad said there is no use teaching you [the language] you will only go back to school and get beat up,” said Chief Eleanor Andrews, who spent eight years at the Sechelt residential school and is a member of the Squamish Elders. Andrews said she still knows some of her native words but it has become difficult for her to pronounce them. The Squamish Valley education department is working in the community to preserve the native language. Native dance classes are held twice a month at Totem Hall, where the Squamish language is incorporated as a part of the singing and drumming. Williams was involved with the education department in the creation of a CD ROM that teaches about the Squamish language. The CD was created through a grant from the First Peoples Language and Culture Council in Victoria. “We are in the process of creating our second language CD ROM,” said Rose Reimer, the administrative coordinator for the Squamish Valley Education department. She said preserving the Squamish Nation language is important because it teaches First Nation’s children in the community about their history. “For our children to succeed they need to know who they are and where they come from and they have to remember the elders and the ancestors that came before them and what their struggles were and to honor that,” she said. Reimer said she believes the strength of Squamish’s language will continue to grow. “As long as we have the recordings and people are willing to learn, the future of the language will always be there,” she said. From pasxapu at DAKOTACOM.NET Mon Jan 9 17:35:47 2006 From: pasxapu at DAKOTACOM.NET (phil cash cash) Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 10:35:47 -0700 Subject: no news from the LSA... Message-ID: Greetings ILAT, I am a bit surprised that there is virually no news coming out from the LSA conference this past week. The only news item I saw today was the "word of the year" which seems a bit trivial but particularly news worthy. Nevertheless, we should continue to draw attention to the plight of the world's endangered languages. Phil Cash Cash UofA, ILAT From isbae at UAA.ALASKA.EDU Mon Jan 9 18:22:54 2006 From: isbae at UAA.ALASKA.EDU (Brett Encelewski) Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 09:22:54 -0900 Subject: flash sites Message-ID: Mia, thank you so much for your response and for the information--I will pass this on to our more technical people and partners. We are just now starting to gain outlook for incorporating Flash components into our Dena'ina Athabascan language learning site. I think that a community-based effort to develop these types of technological/ software applications to language learning would be a very good idea (as you said). BRETT A. ENCELEWSKI "A people with no history has no past, and therefore no future." --Robert A. Heinlen "Think globally, dream universally." --Unknown ----- Original Message ----- From: Mia Kalish Date: Saturday, January 7, 2006 6:45 pm Subject: Re: [ILAT] flash sites > Hello Brent in Kenai. > > I almost made it to Kenai a few years ago . . . hope to make it to AK > sometime . . . > > I'm willing to share, even develop, but I don't want to do stuff > that uses a > bridge language. I think it's bad form. It also doesn't provide the > opportunity for the brain to develop knowledge of syntactic and > morphological patterns. The prime goal of 2L<-->Bridge is the 2L<-- > >Bridgerelation. This doesn't help develop speakers. > > Flash forms could be developed for "plug-ins", but not easily for > languagesthat use special fonts, since they have to be broken > apart and regrouped > into symbols, which I guess could be scripted, although selecting > the text > would be tricky. . . but then, the person using the plug in also > has to be > able to "copy" the language into the Flash environment. . . > usually the > fonts are the problem, because a) specialty fonts don't map to regular > fonts, frequently because people have used the number keys; b) because > without the break apart I mentioned, the user has to have the font > on their > machine to display the font correctly . . .(Flash 8 might have an > imbed, but > this is another sophisticated scripting option if the procedure is > to be > externalized for plug-in-ability). Sounds like a pain to me, and > certainlynot something I (personally) would want to spend my time > on, since there are > so much more interesting things to do. > > On the other hand. . . . > > I think it would be easier - and certainly more fun (at least for > me) if > there was a community who worked on the materials together. That > way, people > could have the fun of working together, software wouldn't have to be > developed that tried to imagine how it might be used without > knowing who all > the users would be, and people wouldn't have to develop all the > differentexpertises (See? I made up a word! Isn't it nice?) to be > able to get their > language projects off the ground. > > Also, as a community, we could develop some really interesting > animatedgames that could work so people not only learned the > language, but also the > syntax and morphology. As a community, we would have the benefit > of all that > creativity. I met a man at the conference, he's Miami, and he did > some cool > flash-card games for learning morphology. And it worked; the kids > were able > to figure out the patterns without someone having to hammer them > into their > heads. This would be cool, and the games could be reusable for all > languageswith particular forms. With lots of formlets, people > could pick and choose > to suit their individual languages. For example, both Miami and > SouthernAthapascan have a collection of words that are effectively > stems and cannot > be used correctly without the personal prefix. So a Body Part game > could be > used for Miami, Chiricahua, Lipan, Navajo, and Mescalero and all > the other > languages that have this form. See? > > I have number games on my website at LearningForPeople.us that > work for > Welsh, Estonian, Spanish, English, and maybe soon Navajo and > Apache. It > takes about 6 hours to do the car puzzle and the 6-format number > practice.So if people can do the numbers 1-100 in their languages, > and they can do > the recordings of the numbers and send them to me appropriately > labeled,they can have games in a few days. Is that a good > share? > > Mia > > -----Original Message----- > From: Indigenous Languages and Technology > [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU]On Behalf Of Brett Encelewski > Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 6:17 PM > To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > Subject: Re: [ILAT] flash sites > > I would be very interested in knowing if the webmasters would be > willing to share--as well--it would cut down on training, > planning, > and implementing costs as well as time. If these orgs are willing > to > share (for the greater good) it would keeps us from reinventing > the > wheel. > > > I want to learn how to use it now. > > Do you > > know if there is any sharing of formats so you could use one > > format and plug > > in another language? This might be a naive question on my part, > > but I'm > > asking anyway. > > BRETT A. ENCELEWSKI > Language Archivist > Kenaitze Indian Tribe, IRA > Kenai, AK > > "A people with no history has no past, and therefore no future." > --Robert A. Heinlen > > "Think globally, dream universally." > --Unknown > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jan Tucker > Date: Friday, January 6, 2006 3:38 pm > Subject: Re: [ILAT] flash sites > > > Thanks Jordan, I really enjoyed exploring all the different ways > > that flash > > can be used to teach language. I want to learn how to use it > now. > > Do you > > know if there is any sharing of formats so you could use one > > format and plug > > in another language? This might be a naive question on my part, > > but I'm > > asking anyway. > > > > The sounds of Gaelic, Sami, and Inuit I believe where wonderful > to > > hear and > > compare. This is some amazing work in my view. What a fun way to > > use the > > internet to learn language. > > > > Jan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Indigenous Languages and Technology > > [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU]On Behalf Of Jordan Lachler > > Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 8:01 AM > > To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > > Subject: [ILAT] flash sites > > > > > > For the flashmongers out there, here are a couple of sites doing > some> interesting stuff with flash and indigenous language learning. > > > > Gaelic > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/alba/foghlam/beag_air_bheag/ > > > > Sami > > http://www.ur.se/ur/sok/frameset_web.html?/samasta/index.html > > > > Tlingit > > http://www.sealaskaheritage.org/programs/language_resources.htm > > > > --- > > Jordan > > > From MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US Mon Jan 9 19:10:56 2006 From: MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US (Mia Kalish) Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 12:10:56 -0700 Subject: no news from the LSA... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: We were having too much fun going to presentations, giving presentations, recovering from presentations, meeting new friends, . . . And, in my case. . . . talking about revitalization software and who wants to build it :-) A good time was had by all. Sorry we left you out. . . we apologize. Mia -----Original Message----- From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of phil cash cash Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 10:36 AM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: [ILAT] no news from the LSA... Greetings ILAT, I am a bit surprised that there is virually no news coming out from the LSA conference this past week. The only news item I saw today was the "word of the year" which seems a bit trivial but particularly news worthy. Nevertheless, we should continue to draw attention to the plight of the world's endangered languages. Phil Cash Cash UofA, ILAT From pasxapu at DAKOTACOM.NET Mon Jan 9 19:38:17 2006 From: pasxapu at DAKOTACOM.NET (phil cash cash) Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 12:38:17 -0700 Subject: no news from the LSA... In-Reply-To: <20060109191104.10C351B7F@listserv.arizona.edu> Message-ID: it wasn't me that was left out, it was our endangered languages and i am sorry too. glad to hear you all had a good time though. Philcc On Jan 9, 2006, at 12:10 PM, Mia Kalish wrote: > We were having too much fun going to presentations, giving > presentations, > recovering from presentations, meeting new friends, . . . And, in my > case. > . . . talking about revitalization software and who wants to build it > :-) > > A good time was had by all. Sorry we left you out. . . we apologize. > head humbly> > > Mia > > -----Original Message----- > From: Indigenous Languages and Technology > [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] > On Behalf Of phil cash cash > Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 10:36 AM > To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > Subject: [ILAT] no news from the LSA... > > Greetings ILAT, > > I am a bit surprised that there is virually no news coming out from the > LSA conference this past week. The only news item I saw today was the > "word of the year" which seems a bit trivial but particularly news > worthy. Nevertheless, we should continue to draw attention to the > plight of the world's endangered languages. > > Phil Cash Cash > UofA, ILAT > From langendt at U.ARIZONA.EDU Mon Jan 9 19:50:08 2006 From: langendt at U.ARIZONA.EDU (Terry Langendoen) Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 12:50:08 -0700 Subject: no news from the LSA... In-Reply-To: <0d718a1de3839d00c1e4590699378344@dakotacom.net> Message-ID: Press coverage of LSA meetings has historically been nearly nonexistent, except when some language issue was in the news around our meeting time, most notably the Ebonics controversy in the late 90s. We might want to encourage LSA to put out press releases about topics of interest about the annual meeting (e.g. workshops and symposia on endangered languages) in the future. Coverage of the Word of the Year has been going on for about a decade -- but that's the doing of the American Dialect Society that meets together with LSA. Terry On Mon, 9 Jan 2006, phil cash cash wrote: > it wasn't me that was left out, it was our endangered languages and i > am sorry too. glad to hear you all had a good time though. > > Philcc > > On Jan 9, 2006, at 12:10 PM, Mia Kalish wrote: > > > We were having too much fun going to presentations, giving > > presentations, > > recovering from presentations, meeting new friends, . . . And, in my > > case. > > . . . talking about revitalization software and who wants to build it > > :-) > > > > A good time was had by all. Sorry we left you out. . . we apologize. > > > head humbly> > > > > Mia > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Indigenous Languages and Technology > > [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] > > On Behalf Of phil cash cash > > Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 10:36 AM > > To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > > Subject: [ILAT] no news from the LSA... > > > > Greetings ILAT, > > > > I am a bit surprised that there is virually no news coming out from the > > LSA conference this past week. The only news item I saw today was the > > "word of the year" which seems a bit trivial but particularly news > > worthy. Nevertheless, we should continue to draw attention to the > > plight of the world's endangered languages. > > > > Phil Cash Cash > > UofA, ILAT > > > Terry Langendoen, Professor Emeritus, Dept of Linguistics, Univ of Arizona P O Box 210028, 1100 E University Blvd, Tucson AZ 85721-0028 USA Phone: +1 520.621.6898 Fax: +1 520.626.9014 Homepage http://linguistics.arizona.edu/~langendoen From MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US Mon Jan 9 22:02:34 2006 From: MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US (Mia Kalish) Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 15:02:34 -0700 Subject: no news from the LSA... In-Reply-To: <0d718a1de3839d00c1e4590699378344@dakotacom.net> Message-ID: Hi, Phil, I want to assure you that we did lots and lots and lots about endangered languages. We talked about them; we talked about how documentation efforts that do not include an eye and support for revitalization are unethical. We shared our ways and concepts of building revitalization materials. Numbers of us made plans to work together to produce publishable research in revitalization, especially as we can be using the internet, because not everyone who is interested in a particular topic or aspect is in the same physical locale either with others who have the same interest, or with others who know the solution or approach. We talked about involving communities, we talked about empowering communities. We talked about building teams, and how those teams should be and work. We talked about tools for field work, and tools for archiving. It's true that a large portion of both LSA and SSILA were dominated by linguistic elements, but there was a recognizable chunk devoted to the revitalization issue. Some people, not everyone, but lots of people, are realizing that we have to make sure these languages don't end up on museum shelves, but back in the community. We even in some places made tiny little headways into issues of language extension. The success of the Maori was one of the shining stars that gave people something to think about. My presentation was about how we have no language for math and science. I showed my materials, and how difficult it was to find words for shapes, and how difficult it was to find people to record the sounds of the words we do have for numbers. If the languages don't move into contemporary use, they WILL die, and people are starting to talk about that. Interestingly enough, it is the younger grad students who seem to find this concept intuitively obvious. I don't know why that is, but the people who needed no explanation were people who were in their 20's, and who were coping with complex issues in the field, sometimes in South America, sometimes locally with diverse populations. We also talked about how Indigenous Languages need to be taught in schools, both public and private, and we talked about how Indigenous scholars, people like Mary Eunice Romero, are writing Indigenous pedagogies. There need to be more Indigenous scholars writing about Indigenous pedagogies. Sandy Grande also writes about Indigenous pedagogies; she calls it Red Pedagogy. She is a critical race theorist, actually. But the bottom line is that the world NEEDS TO KNOW that you don't teach Ndn kids the way you teach white kids. Vine and Daniel Wildcat have been saying that for a long time, and so have the Smiths, and Devon Mihesuah. We also need more research that shows that if you give people crappy materials, they won't learn very well. We need research that helps others understand what the technical term "crappy material" means in the context of teaching and learning. Did you ever notice how people seldom if ever evaluate their materials, but they are very ready to use these same, uncritically accepted materials, to make people less than? Anyway, that's the gist of the conference. This is also the gist of where some of us are going (while others, who shall remain nameless of course, are going to sojourn among the beautiful trout in the equally beautiful Snake River in spectacular nearly-southern Idaho. (But of course we aren't saying WHO, EXACTLY, is doing that. . . . . lalalalalaaaaaa. Send us pictures, okay? I love trout, especially the living, breathing, swimming kind.) Best, Mia -----Original Message----- From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of phil cash cash Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 12:38 PM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [ILAT] no news from the LSA... it wasn't me that was left out, it was our endangered languages and i am sorry too. glad to hear you all had a good time though. Philcc On Jan 9, 2006, at 12:10 PM, Mia Kalish wrote: > We were having too much fun going to presentations, giving > presentations, > recovering from presentations, meeting new friends, . . . And, in my > case. > . . . talking about revitalization software and who wants to build it > :-) > > A good time was had by all. Sorry we left you out. . . we apologize. > head humbly> > > Mia > > -----Original Message----- > From: Indigenous Languages and Technology > [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] > On Behalf Of phil cash cash > Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 10:36 AM > To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > Subject: [ILAT] no news from the LSA... > > Greetings ILAT, > > I am a bit surprised that there is virually no news coming out from the > LSA conference this past week. The only news item I saw today was the > "word of the year" which seems a bit trivial but particularly news > worthy. Nevertheless, we should continue to draw attention to the > plight of the world's endangered languages. > > Phil Cash Cash > UofA, ILAT > From susan.penfield at GMAIL.COM Tue Jan 10 01:07:11 2006 From: susan.penfield at GMAIL.COM (Susan Penfield) Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 18:07:11 -0700 Subject: no news from the LSA... In-Reply-To: <20060109220245.F12422A61@listserv.arizona.edu> Message-ID: All, Mia is right on -- Our session on Sunday was devoted to much of this. It was the last LSA session which was both good and bad -- On the bad side, many of the key players who were at LSA and would have attended (Leanne Hinton, Keren Rice, Wilhelm Meya --and many others )--expressed regrets in having to leave early ).However, many others stayed for that event and participated --as well, we had others in attendance who might not have been there if other talks had been taking place. Christine Sims spoke eloquently about many issues and the evolving history of language education from the community perspective; the folks from the Indigenous Language Institute also did a great job of sharing their ongoing work -- half of the audience (about 50) stayed to watch Brenda McKenna's video from Nambe pueblo (which was beautifully done). I do think that the profile for endangered languages was raised at this LSA (beginning with the airing of "the Last Speakers" on Thursday night.) BUT -- I would like to underscore that the story hardly begins or ends at LSA -- and that it remains up to all of us to keep the interest going. The next LSA, I'm told, will be in Anaheim next January. That's not so far away in either time or distance (for many of us) ...NOW is the time to start thinking about how to keep the energy going into next year!! I believe abstracts are due in April ...so it might be great to propose a special session on Indigenous Languages and technology related to both documentation and revitalization (or something like that)... Best, Susan On 1/9/06, Mia Kalish wrote: > > Hi, Phil, > > I want to assure you that we did lots and lots and lots about endangered > languages. We talked about them; we talked about how documentation efforts > that do not include an eye and support for revitalization are unethical. > We > shared our ways and concepts of building revitalization materials. Numbers > of us made plans to work together to produce publishable research in > revitalization, especially as we can be using the internet, because not > everyone who is interested in a particular topic or aspect is in the same > physical locale either with others who have the same interest, or with > others who know the solution or approach. > > We talked about involving communities, we talked about empowering > communities. We talked about building teams, and how those teams should be > and work. We talked about tools for field work, and tools for archiving. > > It's true that a large portion of both LSA and SSILA were dominated by > linguistic elements, but there was a recognizable chunk devoted to the > revitalization issue. Some people, not everyone, but lots of people, are > realizing that we have to make sure these languages don't end up on museum > shelves, but back in the community. > > We even in some places made tiny little headways into issues of language > extension. The success of the Maori was one of the shining stars that gave > people something to think about. My presentation was about how we have no > language for math and science. I showed my materials, and how difficult it > was to find words for shapes, and how difficult it was to find people to > record the sounds of the words we do have for numbers. > > If the languages don't move into contemporary use, they WILL die, and > people > are starting to talk about that. Interestingly enough, it is the younger > grad students who seem to find this concept intuitively obvious. I don't > know why that is, but the people who needed no explanation were people who > were in their 20's, and who were coping with complex issues in the field, > sometimes in South America, sometimes locally with diverse populations. > > We also talked about how Indigenous Languages need to be taught in > schools, > both public and private, and we talked about how Indigenous scholars, > people > like Mary Eunice Romero, are writing Indigenous pedagogies. There need to > be > more Indigenous scholars writing about Indigenous pedagogies. Sandy Grande > also writes about Indigenous pedagogies; she calls it Red Pedagogy. She is > a > critical race theorist, actually. But the bottom line is that the world > NEEDS TO KNOW that you don't teach Ndn kids the way you teach white kids. > Vine and Daniel Wildcat have been saying that for a long time, and so have > the Smiths, and Devon Mihesuah. > > We also need more research that shows that if you give people crappy > materials, they won't learn very well. We need research that helps others > understand what the technical term "crappy material" means in the context > of > teaching and learning. Did you ever notice how people seldom if ever > evaluate their materials, but they are very ready to use these same, > uncritically accepted materials, to make people less than? > > Anyway, that's the gist of the conference. This is also the gist of where > some of us are going (while others, who shall remain nameless of course, > are > going to sojourn among the beautiful trout in the equally beautiful Snake > River in spectacular nearly-southern Idaho. (But of course we aren't > saying > WHO, EXACTLY, is doing that. . . . . lalalalalaaaaaa. Send us pictures, > okay? I love trout, especially the living, breathing, swimming kind.) > > Best, > Mia > > -----Original Message----- > From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto: > ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] > On Behalf Of phil cash cash > Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 12:38 PM > To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > Subject: Re: [ILAT] no news from the LSA... > > it wasn't me that was left out, it was our endangered languages and i > am sorry too. glad to hear you all had a good time though. > > Philcc > > On Jan 9, 2006, at 12:10 PM, Mia Kalish wrote: > > > We were having too much fun going to presentations, giving > > presentations, > > recovering from presentations, meeting new friends, . . . And, in my > > case. > > . . . talking about revitalization software and who wants to build it > > :-) > > > > A good time was had by all. Sorry we left you out. . . we apologize. > > > head humbly> > > > > Mia > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Indigenous Languages and Technology > > [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] > > On Behalf Of phil cash cash > > Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 10:36 AM > > To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > > Subject: [ILAT] no news from the LSA... > > > > Greetings ILAT, > > > > I am a bit surprised that there is virually no news coming out from the > > LSA conference this past week. The only news item I saw today was the > > "word of the year" which seems a bit trivial but particularly news > > worthy. Nevertheless, we should continue to draw attention to the > > plight of the world's endangered languages. > > > > Phil Cash Cash > > UofA, ILAT > > > -- Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. Department of English Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program American Indian Language Development Institute Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US Tue Jan 10 01:22:07 2006 From: MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US (Mia Kalish) Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 18:22:07 -0700 Subject: LSA 2006 In-Reply-To: <39a679e20601091707v4c2b39dkc1496e646a6101ed@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Are you volunteering to organize a session . . . .?????? What if we organized 2 sessions, to support each other. How about this--> You do a session about how Documentation Should Be Designed with an Eye Toward Revitalization . . . and I'll organize a session for all the people working in Revitalization about How Documentation Supports and Impedes Our Efforts. Those of us who do revitalization depend heavily on what is learned and collected by the people who are working on the documentation. I know in my case, I have a really hard time doing materials for math because the collected knowledge is so sparse. There is all kinds of physical evidence that STEM was alive and well in Indigenous communities, and we have Nearly Nothing in terms of elicitations to support that. I would also like to show others how we are using the web to network our revitalization efforts, sharing text, sound, designs, movies and learning across wide distances. How about: Documentation, Technology & the Web: Effects on Revitalization Efforts :-) Mia _____ From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Susan Penfield Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 6:07 PM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [ILAT] no news from the LSA... All, Mia is right on -- Our session on Sunday was devoted to much of this. It was the last LSA session which was both good and bad -- On the bad side, many of the key players who were at LSA and would have attended (Leanne Hinton, Keren Rice, Wilhelm Meya --and many others )--expressed regrets in having to leave early ).However, many others stayed for that event and participated --as well, we had others in attendance who might not have been there if other talks had been taking place. Christine Sims spoke eloquently about many issues and the evolving history of language education from the community perspective; the folks from the Indigenous Language Institute also did a great job of sharing their ongoing work -- half of the audience (about 50) stayed to watch Brenda McKenna's video from Nambe pueblo (which was beautifully done). I do think that the profile for endangered languages was raised at this LSA (beginning with the airing of "the Last Speakers" on Thursday night.) BUT -- I would like to underscore that the story hardly begins or ends at LSA -- and that it remains up to all of us to keep the interest going. The next LSA, I'm told, will be in Anaheim next January. That's not so far away in either time or distance (for many of us) ...NOW is the time to start thinking about how to keep the energy going into next year!! I believe abstracts are due in April ...so it might be great to propose a special session on Indigenous Languages and technology related to both documentation and revitalization (or something like that)... Best, Susan On 1/9/06, Mia Kalish wrote: Hi, Phil, I want to assure you that we did lots and lots and lots about endangered languages. We talked about them; we talked about how documentation efforts that do not include an eye and support for revitalization are unethical. We shared our ways and concepts of building revitalization materials. Numbers of us made plans to work together to produce publishable research in revitalization, especially as we can be using the internet, because not everyone who is interested in a particular topic or aspect is in the same physical locale either with others who have the same interest, or with others who know the solution or approach. We talked about involving communities, we talked about empowering communities. We talked about building teams, and how those teams should be and work. We talked about tools for field work, and tools for archiving. It's true that a large portion of both LSA and SSILA were dominated by linguistic elements, but there was a recognizable chunk devoted to the revitalization issue. Some people, not everyone, but lots of people, are realizing that we have to make sure these languages don't end up on museum shelves, but back in the community. We even in some places made tiny little headways into issues of language extension. The success of the Maori was one of the shining stars that gave people something to think about. My presentation was about how we have no language for math and science. I showed my materials, and how difficult it was to find words for shapes, and how difficult it was to find people to record the sounds of the words we do have for numbers. If the languages don't move into contemporary use, they WILL die, and people are starting to talk about that. Interestingly enough, it is the younger grad students who seem to find this concept intuitively obvious. I don't know why that is, but the people who needed no explanation were people who were in their 20's, and who were coping with complex issues in the field, sometimes in South America, sometimes locally with diverse populations. We also talked about how Indigenous Languages need to be taught in schools, both public and private, and we talked about how Indigenous scholars, people like Mary Eunice Romero, are writing Indigenous pedagogies. There need to be more Indigenous scholars writing about Indigenous pedagogies. Sandy Grande also writes about Indigenous pedagogies; she calls it Red Pedagogy. She is a critical race theorist, actually. But the bottom line is that the world NEEDS TO KNOW that you don't teach Ndn kids the way you teach white kids. Vine and Daniel Wildcat have been saying that for a long time, and so have the Smiths, and Devon Mihesuah. We also need more research that shows that if you give people crappy materials, they won't learn very well. We need research that helps others understand what the technical term "crappy material" means in the context of teaching and learning. Did you ever notice how people seldom if ever evaluate their materials, but they are very ready to use these same, uncritically accepted materials, to make people less than? Anyway, that's the gist of the conference. This is also the gist of where some of us are going (while others, who shall remain nameless of course, are going to sojourn among the beautiful trout in the equally beautiful Snake River in spectacular nearly-southern Idaho. (But of course we aren't saying WHO, EXACTLY, is doing that. . . . . lalalalalaaaaaa. Send us pictures, okay? I love trout, especially the living, breathing, swimming kind.) Best, Mia -----Original Message----- From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of phil cash cash Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 12:38 PM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [ILAT] no news from the LSA... it wasn't me that was left out, it was our endangered languages and i am sorry too. glad to hear you all had a good time though. Philcc On Jan 9, 2006, at 12:10 PM, Mia Kalish wrote: > We were having too much fun going to presentations, giving > presentations, > recovering from presentations, meeting new friends, . . . And, in my > case. > . . . talking about revitalization software and who wants to build it > :-) > > A good time was had by all. Sorry we left you out. . . we apologize. > head humbly> > > Mia > > -----Original Message----- > From: Indigenous Languages and Technology > [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] > On Behalf Of phil cash cash > Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 10:36 AM > To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > Subject: [ILAT] no news from the LSA... > > Greetings ILAT, > > I am a bit surprised that there is virually no news coming out from the > LSA conference this past week. The only news item I saw today was the > "word of the year" which seems a bit trivial but particularly news > worthy. Nevertheless, we should continue to draw attention to the > plight of the world's endangered languages. > > Phil Cash Cash > UofA, ILAT > -- Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. Department of English Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program American Indian Language Development Institute Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From susan.penfield at GMAIL.COM Tue Jan 10 01:37:49 2006 From: susan.penfield at GMAIL.COM (Susan Penfield) Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 18:37:49 -0700 Subject: LSA 2006 In-Reply-To: <20060110012224.D436F2665@listserv.arizona.edu> Message-ID: Maybe...I'll think about it-- We have to think about the audience who is interested === SSILA and / LSA or both? It would be nice to have back to back sessions -- AND I really think we still need to have something which invites the inclusion of community members... S. On 1/9/06, Mia Kalish wrote: > > Are you volunteering to organize a session . . . .?????? > > > > What if we organized 2 sessions, to support each other. How about thisà > > You do a session about how Documentation Should Be Designed > with an Eye Toward Revitalization > > > > . . . and I'll organize a session for all the people working in > Revitalization about > > How Documentation Supports and Impedes Our Efforts. > > > > Those of us who do revitalization depend heavily on what is learned and > collected by the people who are working on the documentation. I know in my > case, I have a really hard time doing materials for math because the > collected knowledge is so sparse. There is all kinds of physical evidence > that STEM was alive and well in Indigenous communities, and we have Nearly > Nothing in terms of elicitations to support that. > > > > I would also like to show others how we are using the web to network our > revitalization efforts, sharing text, sound, designs, movies and learning > across wide distances. > > > > How about: Documentation, Technology & the Web: Effects on Revitalization > Efforts > > > > J > > > > Mia > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto: > ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Susan Penfield > *Sent:* Monday, January 09, 2006 6:07 PM > *To:* ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > *Subject:* Re: [ILAT] no news from the LSA... > > > > All, > > Mia is right on -- Our session on Sunday was devoted to much of this. It > was the last LSA session which was both good and bad -- On the bad side, > many of the key players who were at LSA and would have attended (Leanne > Hinton, Keren Rice, Wilhelm Meya --and many others )--expressed regrets in > having to leave early ).However, many others stayed for that event and > participated --as well, we had others in attendance who might not have been > there if other talks had been taking place. Christine Sims spoke eloquently > about many issues and the evolving history of language education from the > community perspective; the folks from the Indigenous Language Institute also > did a great job of sharing their ongoing work -- half of the audience (about > 50) stayed to watch Brenda McKenna's video from Nambe pueblo (which was > beautifully done). > > > > I do think that the profile for endangered languages was raised at this > LSA (beginning with the airing of "the Last Speakers" on Thursday night.) > BUT -- I would like to underscore that the story hardly begins or ends at > LSA -- and that it remains up to all of us to keep the interest going. > > > > The next LSA, I'm told, will be in Anaheim next January. That's not so far > away in either time or distance (for many of us) ...NOW is the time to start > thinking about how to keep the energy going into next year!! I believe > abstracts are due in April ...so it might be great to propose a special > session on Indigenous Languages and technology related to both documentation > and revitalization (or something like that)... > > > Best, > > Susan > > > On 1/9/06, *Mia Kalish* wrote: > > Hi, Phil, > > I want to assure you that we did lots and lots and lots about endangered > languages. We talked about them; we talked about how documentation efforts > > that do not include an eye and support for revitalization are unethical. > We > shared our ways and concepts of building revitalization materials. Numbers > of us made plans to work together to produce publishable research in > revitalization, especially as we can be using the internet, because not > everyone who is interested in a particular topic or aspect is in the same > physical locale either with others who have the same interest, or with > others who know the solution or approach. > > We talked about involving communities, we talked about empowering > communities. We talked about building teams, and how those teams should be > and work. We talked about tools for field work, and tools for archiving. > > It's true that a large portion of both LSA and SSILA were dominated by > linguistic elements, but there was a recognizable chunk devoted to the > revitalization issue. Some people, not everyone, but lots of people, are > realizing that we have to make sure these languages don't end up on museum > shelves, but back in the community. > > We even in some places made tiny little headways into issues of language > extension. The success of the Maori was one of the shining stars that gave > > people something to think about. My presentation was about how we have no > language for math and science. I showed my materials, and how difficult it > was to find words for shapes, and how difficult it was to find people to > record the sounds of the words we do have for numbers. > > If the languages don't move into contemporary use, they WILL die, and > people > are starting to talk about that. Interestingly enough, it is the younger > grad students who seem to find this concept intuitively obvious. I don't > know why that is, but the people who needed no explanation were people who > were in their 20's, and who were coping with complex issues in the field, > sometimes in South America, sometimes locally with diverse populations. > > We also talked about how Indigenous Languages need to be taught in > schools, > both public and private, and we talked about how Indigenous scholars, > people > like Mary Eunice Romero, are writing Indigenous pedagogies. There need to > be > more Indigenous scholars writing about Indigenous pedagogies. Sandy Grande > also writes about Indigenous pedagogies; she calls it Red Pedagogy. She is > a > critical race theorist, actually. But the bottom line is that the world > NEEDS TO KNOW that you don't teach Ndn kids the way you teach white kids. > Vine and Daniel Wildcat have been saying that for a long time, and so have > > the Smiths, and Devon Mihesuah. > > We also need more research that shows that if you give people crappy > materials, they won't learn very well. We need research that helps others > understand what the technical term "crappy material" means in the context > of > teaching and learning. Did you ever notice how people seldom if ever > evaluate their materials, but they are very ready to use these same, > uncritically accepted materials, to make people less than? > > Anyway, that's the gist of the conference. This is also the gist of where > > some of us are going (while others, who shall remain nameless of course, > are > going to sojourn among the beautiful trout in the equally beautiful Snake > River in spectacular nearly-southern Idaho. (But of course we aren't > saying > WHO, EXACTLY, is doing that. . . . . lalalalalaaaaaa. Send us pictures, > okay? I love trout, especially the living, breathing, swimming kind.) > > Best, > Mia > > -----Original Message----- > From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto: > ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] > On Behalf Of phil cash cash > Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 12:38 PM > To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > Subject: Re: [ILAT] no news from the LSA... > > it wasn't me that was left out, it was our endangered languages and i > am sorry too. glad to hear you all had a good time though. > > Philcc > > On Jan 9, 2006, at 12:10 PM, Mia Kalish wrote: > > > We were having too much fun going to presentations, giving > > presentations, > > recovering from presentations, meeting new friends, . . . And, in my > > case. > > . . . talking about revitalization software and who wants to build it > > :-) > > > > A good time was had by all. Sorry we left you out. . . we apologize. > > > head humbly> > > > > Mia > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Indigenous Languages and Technology > > [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] > > On Behalf Of phil cash cash > > Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 10:36 AM > > To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > > Subject: [ILAT] no news from the LSA... > > > > Greetings ILAT, > > > > I am a bit surprised that there is virually no news coming out from the > > LSA conference this past week. The only news item I saw today was the > > "word of the year" which seems a bit trivial but particularly news > > worthy. Nevertheless, we should continue to draw attention to the > > plight of the world's endangered languages. > > > > Phil Cash Cash > > UofA, ILAT > > > > > > > -- > Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. > > Department of English > Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics > and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program > American Indian Language Development Institute > Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 > -- Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. Department of English Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program American Indian Language Development Institute Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US Tue Jan 10 01:44:21 2006 From: MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US (Mia Kalish) Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 18:44:21 -0700 Subject: LSA 2006 In-Reply-To: <39a679e20601091737w2e1c988aif906e181743bd9b8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Most of my people would be Indigenous developers. . . . :-) (I'm like that!) If we knew ahead, we could see if their Tribes would support them for the conference. They would be showing off the material we have been building together. _____ From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Susan Penfield Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 6:38 PM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [ILAT] LSA 2006 Maybe...I'll think about it-- We have to think about the audience who is interested === SSILA and / LSA or both? It would be nice to have back to back sessions -- AND I really think we still need to have something which invites the inclusion of community members... S. On 1/9/06, Mia Kalish wrote: Are you volunteering to organize a session . . . .?????? What if we organized 2 sessions, to support each other. How about this --> You do a session about how Documentation Should Be Designed with an Eye Toward Revitalization . . . and I'll organize a session for all the people working in Revitalization about How Documentation Supports and Impedes Our Efforts. Those of us who do revitalization depend heavily on what is learned and collected by the people who are working on the documentation. I know in my case, I have a really hard time doing materials for math because the collected knowledge is so sparse. There is all kinds of physical evidence that STEM was alive and well in Indigenous communities, and we have Nearly Nothing in terms of elicitations to support that. I would also like to show others how we are using the web to network our revitalization efforts, sharing text, sound, designs, movies and learning across wide distances. How about: Documentation, Technology & the Web: Effects on Revitalization Efforts :-) Mia _____ From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Susan Penfield Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 6:07 PM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [ILAT] no news from the LSA... All, Mia is right on -- Our session on Sunday was devoted to much of this. It was the last LSA session which was both good and bad -- On the bad side, many of the key players who were at LSA and would have attended (Leanne Hinton, Keren Rice, Wilhelm Meya --and many others )--expressed regrets in having to leave early ).However, many others stayed for that event and participated --as well, we had others in attendance who might not have been there if other talks had been taking place. Christine Sims spoke eloquently about many issues and the evolving history of language education from the community perspective; the folks from the Indigenous Language Institute also did a great job of sharing their ongoing work -- half of the audience (about 50) stayed to watch Brenda McKenna's video from Nambe pueblo (which was beautifully done). I do think that the profile for endangered languages was raised at this LSA (beginning with the airing of "the Last Speakers" on Thursday night.) BUT -- I would like to underscore that the story hardly begins or ends at LSA -- and that it remains up to all of us to keep the interest going. The next LSA, I'm told, will be in Anaheim next January. That's not so far away in either time or distance (for many of us) ...NOW is the time to start thinking about how to keep the energy going into next year!! I believe abstracts are due in April ...so it might be great to propose a special session on Indigenous Languages and technology related to both documentation and revitalization (or something like that)... Best, Susan On 1/9/06, Mia Kalish < MiaKalish at learningforpeople.us> wrote: Hi, Phil, I want to assure you that we did lots and lots and lots about endangered languages. We talked about them; we talked about how documentation efforts that do not include an eye and support for revitalization are unethical. We shared our ways and concepts of building revitalization materials. Numbers of us made plans to work together to produce publishable research in revitalization, especially as we can be using the internet, because not everyone who is interested in a particular topic or aspect is in the same physical locale either with others who have the same interest, or with others who know the solution or approach. We talked about involving communities, we talked about empowering communities. We talked about building teams, and how those teams should be and work. We talked about tools for field work, and tools for archiving. It's true that a large portion of both LSA and SSILA were dominated by linguistic elements, but there was a recognizable chunk devoted to the revitalization issue. Some people, not everyone, but lots of people, are realizing that we have to make sure these languages don't end up on museum shelves, but back in the community. We even in some places made tiny little headways into issues of language extension. The success of the Maori was one of the shining stars that gave people something to think about. My presentation was about how we have no language for math and science. I showed my materials, and how difficult it was to find words for shapes, and how difficult it was to find people to record the sounds of the words we do have for numbers. If the languages don't move into contemporary use, they WILL die, and people are starting to talk about that. Interestingly enough, it is the younger grad students who seem to find this concept intuitively obvious. I don't know why that is, but the people who needed no explanation were people who were in their 20's, and who were coping with complex issues in the field, sometimes in South America, sometimes locally with diverse populations. We also talked about how Indigenous Languages need to be taught in schools, both public and private, and we talked about how Indigenous scholars, people like Mary Eunice Romero, are writing Indigenous pedagogies. There need to be more Indigenous scholars writing about Indigenous pedagogies. Sandy Grande also writes about Indigenous pedagogies; she calls it Red Pedagogy. She is a critical race theorist, actually. But the bottom line is that the world NEEDS TO KNOW that you don't teach Ndn kids the way you teach white kids. Vine and Daniel Wildcat have been saying that for a long time, and so have the Smiths, and Devon Mihesuah. We also need more research that shows that if you give people crappy materials, they won't learn very well. We need research that helps others understand what the technical term "crappy material" means in the context of teaching and learning. Did you ever notice how people seldom if ever evaluate their materials, but they are very ready to use these same, uncritically accepted materials, to make people less than? Anyway, that's the gist of the conference. This is also the gist of where some of us are going (while others, who shall remain nameless of course, are going to sojourn among the beautiful trout in the equally beautiful Snake River in spectacular nearly-southern Idaho. (But of course we aren't saying WHO, EXACTLY, is doing that. . . . . lalalalalaaaaaa. Send us pictures, okay? I love trout, especially the living, breathing, swimming kind.) Best, Mia -----Original Message----- From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of phil cash cash Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 12:38 PM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [ILAT] no news from the LSA... it wasn't me that was left out, it was our endangered languages and i am sorry too. glad to hear you all had a good time though. Philcc On Jan 9, 2006, at 12:10 PM, Mia Kalish wrote: > We were having too much fun going to presentations, giving > presentations, > recovering from presentations, meeting new friends, . . . And, in my > case. > . . . talking about revitalization software and who wants to build it > :-) > > A good time was had by all. Sorry we left you out. . . we apologize. > head humbly> > > Mia > > -----Original Message----- > From: Indigenous Languages and Technology > [mailto: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] > On Behalf Of phil cash cash > Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 10:36 AM > To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > Subject: [ILAT] no news from the LSA... > > Greetings ILAT, > > I am a bit surprised that there is virually no news coming out from the > LSA conference this past week. The only news item I saw today was the > "word of the year" which seems a bit trivial but particularly news > worthy. Nevertheless, we should continue to draw attention to the > plight of the world's endangered languages. > > Phil Cash Cash > UofA, ILAT > -- Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. Department of English Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program American Indian Language Development Institute Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 -- Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. Department of English Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program American Indian Language Development Institute Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From langendt at U.ARIZONA.EDU Tue Jan 10 05:16:08 2006 From: langendt at U.ARIZONA.EDU (Terry Langendoen) Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 22:16:08 -0700 Subject: LSA 2006 In-Reply-To: <20060110014435.3A5D51F47@listserv.arizona.edu> Message-ID: Mia, Susan, and other interested parties, LSA "preliminary proposal" symposium or workshop deadline is Apr 15. It only needs to identify the organizer(s) with contact information (email address, phone number, mailing address), a list of participants with an indication of who has accepted, a brief description of the purpose and contents, and how much time is needed. Full proposal (with abstracts) is due Sept 1. The LSA website *may* be set up for inputting the preliminary proposal in time, but don't count on it. (Otherwise some number of hard copies will need to be mailed to the LSA office in Washington.) Terry On Mon, 9 Jan 2006, Mia Kalish wrote: > Most of my people would be Indigenous developers. . . . :-) (I'm like that!) > > > > > If we knew ahead, we could see if their Tribes would support them for the > conference. They would be showing off the material we have been building > together. > > > > _____ > > From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] > On Behalf Of Susan Penfield > Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 6:38 PM > To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > Subject: Re: [ILAT] LSA 2006 > > > > Maybe...I'll think about it-- > > We have to think about the audience who is interested === SSILA and / LSA or > both? > > It would be nice to have back to back sessions -- AND I really think we > still need to have something which invites the inclusion of community > members... > > S. > > > > On 1/9/06, Mia Kalish wrote: > > Are you volunteering to organize a session . . . .?????? > > > > What if we organized 2 sessions, to support each other. How about this --> > > You do a session about how Documentation Should Be Designed with > an Eye Toward Revitalization > > > > . . . and I'll organize a session for all the people working in > Revitalization about > > How Documentation Supports and Impedes Our Efforts. > > > > Those of us who do revitalization depend heavily on what is learned and > collected by the people who are working on the documentation. I know in my > case, I have a really hard time doing materials for math because the > collected knowledge is so sparse. There is all kinds of physical evidence > that STEM was alive and well in Indigenous communities, and we have Nearly > Nothing in terms of elicitations to support that. > > > > I would also like to show others how we are using the web to network our > revitalization efforts, sharing text, sound, designs, movies and learning > across wide distances. > > > > How about: Documentation, Technology & the Web: Effects on Revitalization > Efforts > > > > :-) > > > > Mia > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto: > ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Susan Penfield > Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 6:07 PM > To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > Subject: Re: [ILAT] no news from the LSA... > > > > All, > > Mia is right on -- Our session on Sunday was devoted to much of this. It was > the last LSA session which was both good and bad -- On the bad side, many of > the key players who were at LSA and would have attended (Leanne Hinton, > Keren Rice, Wilhelm Meya --and many others )--expressed regrets in having to > leave early ).However, many others stayed for that event and participated > --as well, we had others in attendance who might not have been there if > other talks had been taking place. Christine Sims spoke eloquently about > many issues and the evolving history of language education from the > community perspective; the folks from the Indigenous Language Institute also > did a great job of sharing their ongoing work -- half of the audience (about > 50) stayed to watch Brenda McKenna's video from Nambe pueblo (which was > beautifully done). > > > > I do think that the profile for endangered languages was raised at this > LSA (beginning with the airing of "the Last Speakers" on Thursday night.) > BUT -- I would like to underscore that the story hardly begins or ends at > LSA -- and that it remains up to all of us to keep the interest going. > > > > The next LSA, I'm told, will be in Anaheim next January. That's not so far > away in either time or distance (for many of us) ...NOW is the time to start > thinking about how to keep the energy going into next year!! I believe > abstracts are due in April ...so it might be great to propose a special > session on Indigenous Languages and technology related to both documentation > and revitalization (or something like that)... > > > Best, > > Susan > > > On 1/9/06, Mia Kalish < > MiaKalish at learningforpeople.us> wrote: > > Hi, Phil, > > I want to assure you that we did lots and lots and lots about endangered > languages. We talked about them; we talked about how documentation efforts > that do not include an eye and support for revitalization are unethical. We > shared our ways and concepts of building revitalization materials. Numbers > of us made plans to work together to produce publishable research in > revitalization, especially as we can be using the internet, because not > everyone who is interested in a particular topic or aspect is in the same > physical locale either with others who have the same interest, or with > others who know the solution or approach. > > We talked about involving communities, we talked about empowering > communities. We talked about building teams, and how those teams should be > and work. We talked about tools for field work, and tools for archiving. > > It's true that a large portion of both LSA and SSILA were dominated by > linguistic elements, but there was a recognizable chunk devoted to the > revitalization issue. Some people, not everyone, but lots of people, are > realizing that we have to make sure these languages don't end up on museum > shelves, but back in the community. > > We even in some places made tiny little headways into issues of language > extension. The success of the Maori was one of the shining stars that gave > people something to think about. My presentation was about how we have no > language for math and science. I showed my materials, and how difficult it > was to find words for shapes, and how difficult it was to find people to > record the sounds of the words we do have for numbers. > > If the languages don't move into contemporary use, they WILL die, and people > are starting to talk about that. Interestingly enough, it is the younger > grad students who seem to find this concept intuitively obvious. I don't > know why that is, but the people who needed no explanation were people who > were in their 20's, and who were coping with complex issues in the field, > sometimes in South America, sometimes locally with diverse populations. > > We also talked about how Indigenous Languages need to be taught in schools, > both public and private, and we talked about how Indigenous scholars, people > > like Mary Eunice Romero, are writing Indigenous pedagogies. There need to be > more Indigenous scholars writing about Indigenous pedagogies. Sandy Grande > also writes about Indigenous pedagogies; she calls it Red Pedagogy. She is a > > critical race theorist, actually. But the bottom line is that the world > NEEDS TO KNOW that you don't teach Ndn kids the way you teach white kids. > Vine and Daniel Wildcat have been saying that for a long time, and so have > the Smiths, and Devon Mihesuah. > > We also need more research that shows that if you give people crappy > materials, they won't learn very well. We need research that helps others > understand what the technical term "crappy material" means in the context of > > teaching and learning. Did you ever notice how people seldom if ever > evaluate their materials, but they are very ready to use these same, > uncritically accepted materials, to make people less than? > > Anyway, that's the gist of the conference. This is also the gist of where > some of us are going (while others, who shall remain nameless of course, are > going to sojourn among the beautiful trout in the equally beautiful Snake > River in spectacular nearly-southern Idaho. (But of course we aren't saying > WHO, EXACTLY, is doing that. . . . . lalalalalaaaaaa. Send us pictures, > okay? I love trout, especially the living, breathing, swimming kind.) > > Best, > Mia > > -----Original Message----- > From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto: > ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] > On Behalf Of phil cash cash > Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 12:38 PM > To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > Subject: Re: [ILAT] no news from the LSA... > > it wasn't me that was left out, it was our endangered languages and i > am sorry too. glad to hear you all had a good time though. > > Philcc > > On Jan 9, 2006, at 12:10 PM, Mia Kalish wrote: > > > We were having too much fun going to presentations, giving > > presentations, > > recovering from presentations, meeting new friends, . . . And, in my > > case. > > . . . talking about revitalization software and who wants to build it > > :-) > > > > A good time was had by all. Sorry we left you out. . . we apologize. > > > head humbly> > > > > Mia > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Indigenous Languages and Technology > > [mailto: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] > > On Behalf Of phil cash cash > > Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 10:36 AM > > To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > > Subject: [ILAT] no news from the LSA... > > > > Greetings ILAT, > > > > I am a bit surprised that there is virually no news coming out from the > > LSA conference this past week. The only news item I saw today was the > > "word of the year" which seems a bit trivial but particularly news > > worthy. Nevertheless, we should continue to draw attention to the > > plight of the world's endangered languages. > > > > Phil Cash Cash > > UofA, ILAT > > > > > > > -- > Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. > > Department of English > Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics > and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program > American Indian Language Development Institute > Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 > > > > > -- > Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. > > Department of English > Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics > and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program > American Indian Language Development Institute > Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 > > Terry Langendoen, Professor Emeritus, Dept of Linguistics, Univ of Arizona P O Box 210028, 1100 E University Blvd, Tucson AZ 85721-0028 USA Phone: +1 520.621.6898 Fax: +1 520.626.9014 Homepage http://linguistics.arizona.edu/~langendoen LINGUIST List Book Review editor http://linguistlist.org/reviews/index.html From andrekar at NCIDC.ORG Tue Jan 10 18:51:00 2006 From: andrekar at NCIDC.ORG (Andre Cramblit) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 10:51:00 -0800 Subject: Conference Message-ID: FYI Shelley Essaunce-Lamarche, Aboriginal Heritage Presenter Georgian Bay Islands National Park of Canada P.O. Box 9 Midland, ON L4R 4K6 Phone: (705) 526-9804 ext. 233 Fax: (705) 526-5939 "There's only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving, and that's your own self." Aldous Huxley (1894-1963) ----- Forwarded by Shelley Essaunce-Lamarche/NOTES/PC/CA on 04/01/2006 03:18 PM ----- Once again, we are getting ready for the 12th Annual Anishinaabemowin Teg Language Conference to be held March 30, 31, April 1 & 2, 2006 at the Kewadin Casino and Convention Centre in Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan. We look forward to help ensure you have a successful 4 days with maximum networking and a wide variety of opportunities of meeting new friends, finding resources, and having a good time. Last year, Anishinaabe from across the North America participated in a variety of informative Language workshops and sessions. We had new to fluent speakers of various dialects and tribes which continue to strengthen our language. There was a wonderful banquet which showcased the scholarship recipients and evening of entertainment. We also had our Country Ho down / step dance evening and our Cultural evening with traditional feast. Attached is information containing our official Welcome Letter, Host Hotels, Scholarship Application, Call for Presenters and Conference Registration. You may find additional information on our website containing a vendor application, a SAMPLE submission of our “Call for Presenters” & the official CONFERENCE POSTER. Please make note of the changes in this year’s registration process and a change in our email address listed below. WE WILL NOT ACCEPT ANY FAXED REGISTRATIONS. FULL PAYMENT MUST BE RECEIVED WITH YOUR MAILED REGISTRATION. Please assist us in forwarding this email to interested individuals or organizations. For further information and conference updates visit our website. Miigwech, Maheengun Shawanda "Kwii-anishinaabemtoowag na gdi-binoojiinmag nongo?" "Will you speak the language to your children today?" Anishinaabemowin Teg 12th Annual Language Conference March 30th - April 2nd, 2006 For further information click on the following link: http://www.anishinabek.ca/language%20conference/welcome.asp -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From susan.penfield at GMAIL.COM Wed Jan 11 02:48:00 2006 From: susan.penfield at GMAIL.COM (Susan Penfield) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 19:48:00 -0700 Subject: Fwd: [LINGUA] New "Linguistic fieldwork preparation" website up (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This looks like an excellent resource site for a number of things related to endangered languages... ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 18:52:36 -0330 From: ACL/CLA To: undisclosed-recipients: ; Subject: New "Linguistic fieldwork preparation" website up Hello, A website of "Linguistic Fieldwork Preparation: a guide for field linguists" is now up and running. It is meant to be a comprehensive web-resource for the benefit of the linguistic community at large. The site's address is: http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/lingfieldwork/ The project was carried out as part of the LSA Committee on Endangered Languages and their preservation and under the supervision of Keren Rice, University of Toronto. All additions are welcome. Regards, Sandhya Chari -- Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. Department of English Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program American Indian Language Development Institute Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anggarrgoon at gmail.com Wed Jan 11 06:18:24 2006 From: anggarrgoon at gmail.com (Anggarrgoon) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 00:18:24 -0600 Subject: LSA 2006 In-Reply-To: <20060110014435.3A5D51F47@listserv.arizona.edu> Message-ID: Hi Mia, first off, many apologies for not making your session - there was so much going on and the handbook was so hard to follow there were several I meant to go to and missed. I was at the final session on Sunday and thought it was great, and I hope that there will be something similar at future LSAs. The CELP committee and Jeff Good will be organising another session (Jeff was talking about making the 'techniques' workshop a regular item, with a different focus each year, so maybe email him so there's no duplication of efforts? Let me know if you need his email address. Claire From susan.penfield at GMAIL.COM Wed Jan 11 14:50:35 2006 From: susan.penfield at GMAIL.COM (Susan Penfield) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 07:50:35 -0700 Subject: LSA 2006 In-Reply-To: <43C4A330.6080503@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks Claire, Jeff Good and I spoke initially about somehow overlapping our sessions this time, but it just wasn't feasible -- However, that is something we might be able to do down the line ( i.e., a session on techniques AND a session on fieldwork concerns/revitalization efforts). We are also discussing what might be offered at the next LSA Institute (Stanford 2007) and or at Berkeley (2009)...time to start planning for those events as well! Ideas would be welcomed I'm sure and there is a flyer (not sure if it is available online yet) which will call for course proposals for 2007. Glad you enjoyed Sunday's session! Best, Susan On 1/10/06, Anggarrgoon wrote: > > Hi Mia, > first off, many apologies for not making your session - there was so > much going on and the handbook was so hard to follow there were several > I meant to go to and missed. > > I was at the final session on Sunday and thought it was great, and I > hope that there will be something similar at future LSAs. > The CELP committee and Jeff Good will be organising another session > (Jeff was talking about making the 'techniques' workshop a regular item, > with a different focus each year, so maybe email him so there's no > duplication of efforts? Let me know if you need his email address. > > Claire > -- Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. Department of English Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program American Indian Language Development Institute Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US Wed Jan 11 15:06:34 2006 From: MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US (Mia Kalish) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 08:06:34 -0700 Subject: LSA 2006 In-Reply-To: <39a679e20601110650m6ff360cs78d73009030926bb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hmmmm. I somehow missed this was posted on the list. . . Here was my response to Claire: Hi, Claire, Thanks, on both counts. Revitalization has 3 foci, actually. Jeff Good's is only one; from what I understood from friends who attended the session, it was about choosing and employing different field collection technologies. I don't talk about that sort of thing, other than to recommend digital recorders. I talk about two other things: 1) deciding what will be collected for STEM materials support (right now there is very close to 0 across all collections); and 2) how materials can best be presented to the learner to facilitate learning. Words on paper with a teacher repeating them individually once or twice a week doesn't work. Further, all the rich lexical information is excellent for learning MORE ABOUT the language, but interruptive for those who are LEARNING THE language. One needs to make sure not to clutter up the cognitive paths, and while lots of related information looks good for accomplishment reports, it is Really, Really Bad for learners who are trying to develop skills in the language patterns. Further, other that what Powell write in 1881, there seems to be little written on the importance or method of gathering STEM information. While there is overwhelming physical evidence that STEM skills existed and flourished, there is no reflection of this in elicitations. And lastly, the process of developing revitalization materials is robust. There are lots of components that go into it, given that people have realized that dictionary NOT = revitalization (maybe they haven't). So I talk a lot about the cognitive learning processes, and how the brain will use the patterns you give it to develop IT'S OWN understanding of the language (as opposed to what someone else thinks is important ABOUT the language). Research coming out of psychology (in which I hold a Master's degree) is pointing out to people that the brain makes its own decisions about what it will learn and how. The attention process in many cases has little to do with direct learning, and more and sometimes only to do with presenting the buffet of opportunities to the brain so it can make its own choices (which it will anyway no matter what you do. . . . if the brain doesn't have enough of the right information for it to Learn, it just blows you off . . . [people don't realize this. . .]). So I don't think there is duplication . . . do you? If you do, forward this along to Jeff and see what he thinks. If he thinks there is potential duplication, he can write to me. Thanks, Mia _____ From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Susan Penfield Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 7:51 AM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [ILAT] LSA 2006 Thanks Claire, Jeff Good and I spoke initially about somehow overlapping our sessions this time, but it just wasn't feasible -- However, that is something we might be able to do down the line ( i.e., a session on techniques AND a session on fieldwork concerns/revitalization efforts). We are also discussing what might be offered at the next LSA Institute (Stanford 2007) and or at Berkeley (2009)...time to start planning for those events as well! Ideas would be welcomed I'm sure and there is a flyer (not sure if it is available online yet) which will call for course proposals for 2007. Glad you enjoyed Sunday's session! Best, Susan On 1/10/06, Anggarrgoon wrote: Hi Mia, first off, many apologies for not making your session - there was so much going on and the handbook was so hard to follow there were several I meant to go to and missed. I was at the final session on Sunday and thought it was great, and I hope that there will be something similar at future LSAs. The CELP committee and Jeff Good will be organising another session (Jeff was talking about making the 'techniques' workshop a regular item, with a different focus each year, so maybe email him so there's no duplication of efforts? Let me know if you need his email address. Claire -- Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. Department of English Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program American Indian Language Development Institute Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From susan.penfield at GMAIL.COM Wed Jan 11 15:43:46 2006 From: susan.penfield at GMAIL.COM (Susan Penfield) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 08:43:46 -0700 Subject: LSA 2006 In-Reply-To: <20060111150647.7F58921BB@listserv.arizona.edu> Message-ID: Mia and all, Your comments are feeding into the distinction I've been emphasizing between documentation (of major concern and receiving international attention through OLAC, SOAS, EMELD, etc) and revitalization (still receiving little attention internationally, though robust and active at a community level). The question remains as to how these two 'camps' can better serve one another (if they should). This is part of the point I was trying to make on Sunday at LSA -- If one works in a community, with all the technical expertise available for documentation, and does not envision or consider how their work may impact local revitalization efforts -- its a problem (I think I said 'irresponsible') ....As field linguists, we must make sure that our work on documentation (using all the 'best practices' which were the subject of Jeff's session) is supportive of the community's efforts. This requires a second set of 'Best Practices' -- still being defined -- for working with communties (actually, I think we should think in terms of working FOR communities --a step beyond working 'IN' or even 'WITH' ) ... That said, I'm leaning toward proposing a session focused on products (the type Mia is developing) not techniques for data collection (Jeff's thing). The Lakota Language Consortium (winners of the Ken Hale prize from SSILA) are making some amazing materials. I think a session that asked participants to 1) share their products and 2) discuss the theoretical underpinnings -- i.e. STEM in Mia's case and 3) discuss the type of community connections/support/interactions for implementation of these products ...might be really interesting to present to linguists. This could be done as a techie-poster session -- or a regular session with individual papers....either would be good. The LSA poster session on Endangered Languages this time was very rich (I thought)... OK -- that's my two cents... S. On 1/11/06, Mia Kalish wrote: > > Hmmmm. I somehow missed this was posted on the list. . . > > > > Here was my response to Claire: > > > > > > Hi, Claire, > > > > Thanks, on both counts. > > > > Revitalization has 3 foci, actually. Jeff Good's is only one; from what I > understood from friends who attended the session, it was about choosing and > employing different field collection technologies. I don't talk about that > sort of thing, other than to recommend digital recorders. > > > > I talk about two other things: 1) deciding what will be collected for STEM > materials support (right now there is very close to 0 across all > collections); and 2) how materials can best be presented to the learner to > facilitate learning. > > > > Words on paper with a teacher repeating them individually once or twice a > week doesn't work. Further, all the rich lexical information is excellent > for learning MORE ABOUT the language, but interruptive for those who are > LEARNING THE language. One needs to make sure not to clutter up the > cognitive paths, and while lots of related information looks good for > accomplishment reports, it is Really, Really Bad for learners who are trying > to develop skills in the language patterns. > > > > Further, other that what Powell write in 1881, there seems to be little > written on the importance or method of gathering STEM information. While > there is overwhelming physical evidence that STEM skills existed and > flourished, there is no reflection of this in elicitations. > > > > And lastly, the process of developing revitalization materials is robust. > There are lots of components that go into it, given that people have > realized that dictionary NOT = revitalization (maybe they haven't). So I > talk a lot about the cognitive learning processes, and how the brain will > use the patterns you give it to develop IT'S OWN understanding of the > language (as opposed to what someone else thinks is important ABOUT the > language). Research coming out of psychology (in which I hold a Master's > degree) is pointing out to people that the brain makes its own decisions > about what it will learn and how. The attention process in many cases has > little to do with direct learning, and more and sometimes only to do with > presenting the buffet of opportunities to the brain so it can make its own > choices (which it will anyway no matter what you do. . . . if the brain > doesn't have enough of the right information for it to Learn, it just blows > you off . . . [people don't realize this. . .]). > > > > So I don't think there is duplication . . . do you? If you do, forward > this along to Jeff and see what he thinks. If he thinks there is potential > duplication, he can write to me. > > > > Thanks, > > Mia > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto: > ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Susan Penfield > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 11, 2006 7:51 AM > *To:* ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > *Subject:* Re: [ILAT] LSA 2006 > > > > Thanks Claire, > Jeff Good and I spoke initially about somehow overlapping our sessions > this time, but it just wasn't feasible -- However, that is something we > might be able to do down the line ( i.e., a session on techniques AND a > session on fieldwork concerns/revitalization efforts). We are also > discussing what might be offered at the next LSA Institute (Stanford 2007) > and or at Berkeley (2009)...time to start planning for those events as well! > Ideas would be welcomed I'm sure and there is a flyer (not sure if it is > available online yet) which will call for course proposals for 2007. > > Glad you enjoyed Sunday's session! > Best, > Susan > > On 1/10/06, *Anggarrgoon* wrote: > > Hi Mia, > first off, many apologies for not making your session - there was so > much going on and the handbook was so hard to follow there were several > I meant to go to and missed. > > I was at the final session on Sunday and thought it was great, and I > hope that there will be something similar at future LSAs. > The CELP committee and Jeff Good will be organising another session > (Jeff was talking about making the 'techniques' workshop a regular item, > with a different focus each year, so maybe email him so there's no > duplication of efforts? Let me know if you need his email address. > > Claire > > > > > -- > Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. > > Department of English > Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics > and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program > American Indian Language Development Institute > Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 > -- Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. Department of English Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program American Indian Language Development Institute Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anggarrgoon at gmail.com Wed Jan 11 16:34:43 2006 From: anggarrgoon at gmail.com (Anggarrgoon) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 10:34:43 -0600 Subject: LSA 2006 In-Reply-To: <43c50b13.3ac0e56d.505c.ffffc7d1SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Mia, quick response, as classes start today. I absolutely agree with you about there being more than one focus (and I'm sure Jeff does too) - that's one of the reasons they want to have a continuing series of workshops at future LSAs. It was never billed as a revitalisation session, it was billed as a "how to make great audio and video recordings" session. > > Revitalization has 3 foci, actually. Jeff Good's is only one; from what I > understood from friends who attended the session, it was about choosing and > employing different field collection technologies. I don't talk about that > sort of thing, other than to recommend digital recorders. > The talks were on a mixture of things, from choosing audio/video equipment, to what the specifications mean (sampling rates, 16 bit vs 24 bit, etc) to archiving. And there were some software demonstrations. I can't think of much offhand that would have been relevant to linguists and not to community members documenting their own language; Elan maybe, but even that has potential use for communities who want to link film and video (I think if that's all they need to do there are better programs to do it with). > I talk about two other things: 1) deciding what will be collected for STEM > materials support (right now there is very close to 0 across all > collections); and 2) how materials can best be presented to the learner to > facilitate learning. > > Words on paper with a teacher repeating them individually once or twice a > week doesn't work. Further, all the rich lexical information is excellent > for learning MORE ABOUT the language, but interruptive for those who are > LEARNING THE language. One needs to make sure not to clutter up the > cognitive paths, and while lots of related information looks good for > accomplishment reports, it is Really, Really Bad for learners who are trying > to develop skills in the language patterns. > yes, I agree. BUT that's not the whole story either, by any means. When I started work on Bardi there was a great program for beginning learners, aimed at little kids. There was a lot of time for it at preschool, they had songs and games, they were learning words, they were sitting down and hearing stories, and the 5-6 year olds were really enthusiastic about the whole thing. The grade one classes had language games and there was a set of lessons that had been developed over a number of years. It included exercises like going home and asking granny about something (and a lot of other things). This was before One Arm Point had computers in the classrooms. However, there was nothing much for more advanced learners, so by the time the kids got to fourth grade they were doing the same curriculum they'd done in second grade. So when I got there we did two things - I worked as much as possible with the old people (there are now about 25 speakers of Bardi) to get better documentation of a variety of genres, so there is a community record. If you're interested in all that we did I can send you a paper that I wrote about it. We did this on the assumption that we can always simplify materials for the intermediate/beginner learners, but if we don't have native speakers we can't recapture the complexity of the language. Maybe we can discuss this more in another thread, but it is something that worries me a bit sometimes. Is it just a data presentation issue (because that is easily fixed) or is it something deeper? You mentioned data that wasn't collected - could you give me some examples? > Further, other that what Powell write in 1881, there seems to be little > written on the importance or method of gathering STEM information. While > there is overwhelming physical evidence that STEM skills existed and > flourished, there is no reflection of this in elicitations. > Could you say more about this? > And lastly, the process of developing revitalization materials is robust. > There are lots of components that go into it, given that people have > realized that dictionary NOT = revitalization (maybe they haven't). Um, I think this is a bit unfair. So I > talk a lot about the cognitive learning processes, and how the brain will > use the patterns you give it to develop IT'S OWN understanding of the > language (as opposed to what someone else thinks is important ABOUT the > language). Research coming out of psychology (in which I hold a Master's > degree) is pointing out to people that the brain makes its own decisions > about what it will learn and how. The attention process in many cases has > little to do with direct learning, and more and sometimes only to do with > presenting the buffet of opportunities to the brain so it can make its own > choices (which it will anyway no matter what you do. . . . if the brain > doesn't have enough of the right information for it to Learn, it just blows > you off . . . [people don't realize this. . .]). > I made this point somewhere recently, sorry if it was here. Linguists are in a very difficult position here, particularly academic linguists doing language description or revitalisation and working in communities (I work in Australia but I think the situation is somewhat similar in the US). On the one hand there are certain things we have to do in order to keep our academic jobs (teaching, publishing in academic journals, advising students), and it's our academic jobs that allow us to offer our services to communities essentially for free. If communities want to employ linguists purely as consultants on revitalisation projects, then the academic model usually won't work. We can't put alphabet books and talking dictionaries of 100 words in to support our tenure cases as syntacticians, and if we don't get tenure we can't continue offering our services to communities. I fully agree that there's a lot that stinks about this situation, it's unfair to both sides (I work two fulltime jobs when I'm in the field, for instance - as an academic linguist and as a revitalisation/training linguist - I'm lucky that I have a wonderful field site that makes this doable, and I work with Yolngu people who are keen to see their language published and written about) and I suspect it's unsustainable, and it leads to a heap of miscommunication and wrong assumptions about what is taking place, to what end. > So I don't think there is duplication . . . do you? If you do, forward this > along to Jeff and see what he thinks. If he thinks there is potential > duplication, he can write to me. I don't know what Jeff had in mind but a workshop on revitalisation techniques was raised in the town meeting on Thursday. That was where I thought the overlap might come in. Ok, so that "quick response" turned into a much longer one but I will stop now. There are many different issues and assumptions here and I'd really like to discuss these in depth. Claire From delancey at UOREGON.EDU Wed Jan 11 16:47:56 2006 From: delancey at UOREGON.EDU (Scott DeLancey) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 08:47:56 -0800 Subject: "In", "for", or "with"? (was Re: [ILAT] LSA 2006) In-Reply-To: <39a679e20601110743x52f0a209i202a9e28edbc6811@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Jan 2006, Susan Penfield wrote: > Jeff's session) is supportive of the community's efforts. This requires a > second set of 'Best Practices' -- still being defined -- for working with > communties (actually, I think we should think in terms of working FOR > communities --a step beyond working 'IN' or even 'WITH' ) ... I may be splitting hairs here, but then, that's what I do for a living ... A lot of folks in linguistics now put these in the other order--once upon a time we worked *in* the communities, then we learned we had to think about working *for* the community, now we work *with* them. To me the difference is: if you are working *for* the community, that sounds like you design and carry out the project, and the community benefits. Sounds cool, but it can't work that way--no revitalization program can get anywhere unless the community is involved all the way along, not just in goal-setting but in implementation too--if you're not working *with* the community then the community isn't going to end up getting much out of your work. Scott DeLancey Department of Linguistics 1290 University of Oregon Eugene, OR 97403-1290, USA delancey at darkwing.uoregon.edu http://www.uoregon.edu/~delancey/prohp.html From susan.penfield at GMAIL.COM Wed Jan 11 17:39:44 2006 From: susan.penfield at GMAIL.COM (Susan Penfield) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 10:39:44 -0700 Subject: "In", "for", or "with"? (was Re: [ILAT] LSA 2006) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Scott Couldn't agree more -- so maybe 'with' and 'for' blend here. All I was trying to suggest is the clear 'paradigm shift' (to use current rhetoric) that has occurred for linguists working in the context of communities. Since being in the field (now easily over 30 eyars) , the position of 'linguist' has changed -- for the better, I think, in that most of us are very concerned with how we can advocate and support the communities we work with (or for) -- I have, on occasion, actually been employed by the tribes so working 'for' them is accurate in my case. But the projects I now design, while I'm now based in academia, are always, to the best of my ability, conceived as fully collaborative..i.e., working with the community on every level possible. We may both be splitting hairs, but we are not wasting words. Linguists need to think carefully through their relationship and responsibility to the community...Most know that of course, but it certainly hasn't always been the case. It is rarely clearly articulated what working 'with' communities means nor is it often addressed as to just how these collaborations are actually implemented. Best, Susan On 1/11/06, Scott DeLancey wrote: > > On Wed, 11 Jan 2006, Susan Penfield wrote: > > > Jeff's session) is supportive of the community's efforts. This requires > a > > second set of 'Best Practices' -- still being defined -- for working > with > > communties (actually, I think we should think in terms of working FOR > > communities --a step beyond working 'IN' or even 'WITH' ) ... > > I may be splitting hairs here, but then, that's what I do for a living ... > > A lot of folks in linguistics now put these in the other order--once upon > a time we worked *in* the communities, then we learned we had to think > about working *for* the community, now we work *with* them. > > To me the difference is: if you are working *for* the community, that > sounds like you design and carry out the project, and the community > benefits. Sounds cool, but it can't work that way--no revitalization > program can get anywhere unless the community is involved all the way > along, not just in goal-setting but in implementation too--if you're > not working *with* the community then the community isn't going to end > up getting much out of your work. > > Scott DeLancey > Department of Linguistics > 1290 University of Oregon > Eugene, OR 97403-1290, USA > > delancey at darkwing.uoregon.edu > http://www.uoregon.edu/~delancey/prohp.html > -- Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. Department of English Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program American Indian Language Development Institute Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU Wed Jan 11 17:22:40 2006 From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 10:22:40 -0700 Subject: no news from the LSA... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Just to add further, I recall a media analysis was done on news articles relating to language endangerment and, on the average, they tended to appear at least 1.5 times a month. After scouring the news for ILAT in the past year, this seems to be right on (though I am in no way an expert news monger, I just "google" like everybody else on the planet). But for the most part, to make the news, one usually needs a "percipitating action or event" such as a conference, project being funded, etc. I've noticed though that when the news articles specifically focus on the language dissappearing, usually it is portrayed in one of two ways: as a dire state of affairs or as an "against all odds" kind of affairs where the community is attempting to beat the odds, win the race against time, etc. FYI, here is the link to the media analysis summary. http://www.aiic.net/ViewPage.cfm/page1512.htm Phil UofA ILAT Quoting Terry Langendoen : > Press coverage of LSA meetings has historically been nearly > nonexistent, except when some language issue was in the news > around our meeting time, most notably the Ebonics controversy in > the late 90s. We might want to encourage LSA to put out press > releases about topics of interest about the annual meeting (e.g. > workshops and symposia on endangered languages) in the future. > > Coverage of the Word of the Year has been going on for about a > decade -- but that's the doing of the American Dialect Society > that meets together with LSA. > > Terry > > On Mon, 9 Jan 2006, phil cash cash wrote: > >> it wasn't me that was left out, it was our endangered languages and i >> am sorry too. glad to hear you all had a good time though. >> >> Philcc >> >> On Jan 9, 2006, at 12:10 PM, Mia Kalish wrote: >> >> > We were having too much fun going to presentations, giving >> > presentations, >> > recovering from presentations, meeting new friends, . . . And, in my >> > case. >> > . . . talking about revitalization software and who wants to build it >> > :-) >> > >> > A good time was had by all. Sorry we left you out. . . we apologize. >> > > > head humbly> >> > >> > Mia >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Indigenous Languages and Technology >> > [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] >> > On Behalf Of phil cash cash >> > Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 10:36 AM >> > To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU >> > Subject: [ILAT] no news from the LSA... >> > >> > Greetings ILAT, >> > >> > I am a bit surprised that there is virually no news coming out from the >> > LSA conference this past week. The only news item I saw today was the >> > "word of the year" which seems a bit trivial but particularly news >> > worthy. Nevertheless, we should continue to draw attention to the >> > plight of the world's endangered languages. >> > >> > Phil Cash Cash >> > UofA, ILAT >> > >> > > Terry Langendoen, Professor Emeritus, Dept of Linguistics, Univ of Arizona > P O Box 210028, 1100 E University Blvd, Tucson AZ 85721-0028 USA > Phone: +1 520.621.6898 Fax: +1 520.626.9014 > Homepage http://linguistics.arizona.edu/~langendoen From anggarrgoon at gmail.com Wed Jan 11 17:55:07 2006 From: anggarrgoon at gmail.com (Anggarrgoon) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 11:55:07 -0600 Subject: no news from the LSA... In-Reply-To: <20060111102240.gc3o8wcccw4o4kg0@www.email.arizona.edu> Message-ID: Just in relation to the portrayal of endangered languages in the media, I wrote a formula for such an article on my blog a few years ago: http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/anggarrgoon/2004/03/01#a6 Claire > I've noticed though that when the news articles specifically focus on > the language dissappearing, usually it is portrayed in one of two ways: > as a dire state of affairs or as an "against all odds" kind of affairs > where the community is attempting to beat the odds, win the race > against time, etc. > > FYI, here is the link to the media analysis summary. > http://www.aiic.net/ViewPage.cfm/page1512.htm > From ayellowbird2 at YAHOO.COM Wed Jan 11 18:13:33 2006 From: ayellowbird2 at YAHOO.COM (Amisa Yellowbird) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 10:13:33 -0800 Subject: PLEASE REMOVE ME FROM YOUR MAIL LIST Message-ID: Please remove me from your mailing list. You do great work but I can't handle all the e-mails. I have a 14.4 connection and a lap top. Thank you Amisa Yellowbird ayellowbird2 at yahoo.com --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos – Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover Photo Books. You design it and we’ll bind it! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jtucker at starband.net Wed Jan 11 18:32:19 2006 From: jtucker at starband.net (Jan Tucker) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 13:32:19 -0500 Subject: "In", "for", or "with"? (was Re: [ILAT] LSA 2006) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Scott, great points here. It would be good to hear from community members regarding working "for" the community. How do the communities want "outsiders" working "for" them. Also, do the communities even want outside collaborators in their revitalization programs? Would they rather train their own community members working on revitalization to document language and develop language revitalization tools? Jan -----Original Message----- From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU]On Behalf Of Scott DeLancey Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 11:48 AM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: [ILAT] "In", "for", or "with"? (was Re: [ILAT] LSA 2006) On Wed, 11 Jan 2006, Susan Penfield wrote: > Jeff's session) is supportive of the community's efforts. This requires a > second set of 'Best Practices' -- still being defined -- for working with > communties (actually, I think we should think in terms of working FOR > communities --a step beyond working 'IN' or even 'WITH' ) ... I may be splitting hairs here, but then, that's what I do for a living ... A lot of folks in linguistics now put these in the other order--once upon a time we worked *in* the communities, then we learned we had to think about working *for* the community, now we work *with* them. To me the difference is: if you are working *for* the community, that sounds like you design and carry out the project, and the community benefits. Sounds cool, but it can't work that way--no revitalization program can get anywhere unless the community is involved all the way along, not just in goal-setting but in implementation too--if you're not working *with* the community then the community isn't going to end up getting much out of your work. Scott DeLancey Department of Linguistics 1290 University of Oregon Eugene, OR 97403-1290, USA delancey at darkwing.uoregon.edu http://www.uoregon.edu/~delancey/prohp.html From susan.penfield at GMAIL.COM Wed Jan 11 18:52:36 2006 From: susan.penfield at GMAIL.COM (Susan Penfield) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 11:52:36 -0700 Subject: "In", "for", or "with"? (was Re: [ILAT] LSA 2006) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jan, Of course...these are good points and important to mention. Increasingly , communities are choosing to do their own work which is great -- but if they decide to involve a linguist, then that linguist needs to really think through the relationship with the community -- on many levels. I actually agree with Scott -- working 'with' is the current model and a good one -- or at least an improved one. My personal hope is that communities feel empowered in terms of choosing or not choosing a linguist and in terms of being able to outline how a linguist might or might not be of specifi use to them fro either documentation or revitalization. Best, Susan On 1/11/06, Jan Tucker wrote: > > Scott, great points here. It would be good to hear from community members > regarding working "for" the community. How do the communities want > "outsiders" > working "for" them. Also, do the communities even want outside > collaborators in > their revitalization programs? Would they rather train their own community > members > working on revitalization to document language and develop language > revitalization tools? > > Jan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Indigenous Languages and Technology > [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU]On Behalf Of Scott DeLancey > Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 11:48 AM > To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > Subject: [ILAT] "In", "for", or "with"? (was Re: [ILAT] LSA 2006) > > > On Wed, 11 Jan 2006, Susan Penfield wrote: > > > Jeff's session) is supportive of the community's efforts. This requires > a > > second set of 'Best Practices' -- still being defined -- for working > with > > communties (actually, I think we should think in terms of working FOR > > communities --a step beyond working 'IN' or even 'WITH' ) ... > > I may be splitting hairs here, but then, that's what I do for a living ... > > A lot of folks in linguistics now put these in the other order--once upon > a time we worked *in* the communities, then we learned we had to think > about working *for* the community, now we work *with* them. > > To me the difference is: if you are working *for* the community, that > sounds like you design and carry out the project, and the community > benefits. Sounds cool, but it can't work that way--no revitalization > program can get anywhere unless the community is involved all the way > along, not just in goal-setting but in implementation too--if you're > not working *with* the community then the community isn't going to end > up getting much out of your work. > > Scott DeLancey > Department of Linguistics > 1290 University of Oregon > Eugene, OR 97403-1290, USA > > delancey at darkwing.uoregon.edu > http://www.uoregon.edu/~delancey/prohp.html > -- Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. Department of English Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program American Indian Language Development Institute Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jtucker at starband.net Wed Jan 11 19:45:48 2006 From: jtucker at starband.net (Jan Tucker) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:45:48 -0500 Subject: "In", "for", or "with"? (was Re: [ILAT] LSA 2006) In-Reply-To: <39a679e20601111052oe777ef4q22c520529090b45c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Susan, thanks for responding, I was hoping to hear from community members on the list regarding this topic. I had a discussion with a web developer and online educator who did many presentations at the community level regarding connectivity, and in our discussion he emphasized the desire of communities to control their own communication networks and educational output. Sovereignty is the key he said in relation to indigenous knowledge and learning networks. I wondered how much of the desire for sovereignty in knowledge sharing might affect any efforts in language and cultural revitalization by non community members who would like to collaborate or work "for" or "with" the community? And if there is a barrier to collaboration due to the desire of the communities to control their collective knowledge of the language and the sharing of that knowledge. Just a thought that could affect any efforts by outsiders to help or affect the direction or focus of outsider support to language revitalization. Jan -----Original Message----- From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU]On Behalf Of Susan Penfield Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 1:53 PM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [ILAT] "In", "for", or "with"? (was Re: [ILAT] LSA 2006) Jan, Of course...these are good points and important to mention. Increasingly , communities are choosing to do their own work which is great -- but if they decide to involve a linguist, then that linguist needs to really think through the relationship with the community -- on many levels. I actually agree with Scott -- working 'with' is the current model and a good one -- or at least an improved one. My personal hope is that communities feel empowered in terms of choosing or not choosing a linguist and in terms of being able to outline how a linguist might or might not be of specifi use to them fro either documentation or revitalization. Best, Susan On 1/11/06, Jan Tucker wrote: Scott, great points here. It would be good to hear from community members regarding working "for" the community. How do the communities want "outsiders" working "for" them. Also, do the communities even want outside collaborators in their revitalization programs? Would they rather train their own community members working on revitalization to document language and develop language revitalization tools? Jan -----Original Message----- From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU]On Behalf Of Scott DeLancey Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 11:48 AM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: [ILAT] "In", "for", or "with"? (was Re: [ILAT] LSA 2006) On Wed, 11 Jan 2006, Susan Penfield wrote: > Jeff's session) is supportive of the community's efforts. This requires a > second set of 'Best Practices' -- still being defined -- for working with > communties (actually, I think we should think in terms of working FOR > communities --a step beyond working 'IN' or even 'WITH' ) ... I may be splitting hairs here, but then, that's what I do for a living ... A lot of folks in linguistics now put these in the other order--once upon a time we worked *in* the communities, then we learned we had to think about working *for* the community, now we work *with* them. To me the difference is: if you are working *for* the community, that sounds like you design and carry out the project, and the community benefits. Sounds cool, but it can't work that way--no revitalization program can get anywhere unless the community is involved all the way along, not just in goal-setting but in implementation too--if you're not working *with* the community then the community isn't going to end up getting much out of your work. Scott DeLancey Department of Linguistics 1290 University of Oregon Eugene, OR 97403-1290, USA delancey at darkwing.uoregon.edu http://www.uoregon.edu/~delancey/prohp.html -- Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. Department of English Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program American Indian Language Development Institute Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From coyotez at UOREGON.EDU Wed Jan 11 20:02:40 2006 From: coyotez at UOREGON.EDU (David Gene Lewis) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 12:02:40 -0800 Subject: "In", "for", or "with"? (was Re: [ILAT] LSA 2006) In-Reply-To: <39a679e20601111052oe777ef4q22c520529090b45c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Ilat members, As a constant lurker I thank you all for what you are doing for your communities. Not that you all need my thanks, but I am personnally benefitting from your leadership on how to help revive your languages. I am a peripheral member because my work is in historic ethnographic archives, specifically the Southwest Oregon Research Project. I have worked with Scott DeLancey, and Phil Cash Cash in the past. I do not work specifically in linguistics, althought thanks to Scott's great teaching, I can understand the lingo pretty well. I am in cultural anthropology/ethnohistory and my work overlaps with linguistic and native language issues quite a bit. My work with the SWORP collection here at the University of Oregon, where I archivally organized it and created the finding aid. The collection has an overlap with language revitalization as at least 75% of the collection contains historic language materials from Oregon Indians and other surrounding Tribes. As part of the history of SWORP, the collection has been gifted to all of the Tribes in Oregon, and many surrounding Tribes in California and Washington State. My interest in the questions of working "for" or "with" the tribe are really a part of everything I do. As a Tribal member and a cultural anthropologist I feel responsibility in two realms, to academia and to the Tribal communities in Oregon. In short I am an "insider" and an "outsider" according to what has been posted previously. I suspect that many on this list are in a similar situation... This difference was part of my decision process when I was reorganizing the SWORP collection for the library here at UO. I wanted the collection to be accessible to Indian people as well as academic researchers of any level of research experience. I knew that the collection would be given to the tribes in the future and so I created titles for the files that resonnated with Indian people and academic researchers. At that time, abt 1999, there was not a lot of direction from my tribe or really any tribes in Oregon about what they needed and so I had to think about it fresh and go with my instincts. I think it was successful. Many tribes and Tribal researchers have expressed an appreciation for the way the collection is arranged and the ease as to which they can do research within it. Not that my experience or actions are the answer, but it has worked here in Oregon. I would like to see a similar effort taken by other repositories of Native ethnohistory so that similar collections are made more accessible to Native communities. So what Scott is saying is incredibly important. In 1998 I took a trip to Australia, and the approach the Arrente (sp?) people were taking involved intentionally placing community members and students with university professors to learn their methods, so that they may return to Alice Springs with that knowledge and use it in their community. I saw some amazing language resources being developed for communities that did not have ready access to computers and associated technologies. But I also think we can explore further the role of the native scholar working within academia and their community. These scholars, manytimes, have a completey different motivation for their work, and different responsibilities and expectations on them than non-native academics and scholars. In the past 30 years, anthropology and linguistics scholars have changed their methods and products to reflect the needs of the native communities but really it is the native scholars that can truly represent those communities in both worlds. Thanks for listening, David Lewis University of Oregon Confederated Tribes of Grand Ronde From susan.penfield at GMAIL.COM Wed Jan 11 20:16:53 2006 From: susan.penfield at GMAIL.COM (Susan Penfield) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 13:16:53 -0700 Subject: "In", "for", or "with"? (was Re: [ILAT] LSA 2006) In-Reply-To: <200601112002.k0BK2e1Q015641@smtp.uoregon.edu> Message-ID: David, Thanks so much for these valuable insights. I agree that native scholars have a distinct and special place in all of this and am happy that the ranks are growing! I'd also like to call attention to those whom Phil and I have refer to as 'community intellectuals' -- people whose intellectual expertise has made a significant contribution to the advancement of language issues. I count here, for instance,one person I worked with for many years who took it really upon herself to become literate in Mohave and who began to write materials (but very sadly passed away suddenly). These folks often go unrecognized completely. Interestingly, I've heard the term 'insider-outsider' lately used in different ways. It is frequently used to describe native scholars, who bridge both the community and the academy, and sometimes also used to describe outsiders who live/work in the community. Like Jan, I hope more native scholars on this list will jump in here... S. On 1/11/06, David Gene Lewis wrote: > > Ilat members, > As a constant lurker I thank you all for what you are doing for your > communities. Not that you all need my thanks, but I am personnally > benefitting from your leadership on how to help revive your languages. > > > I am a peripheral member because my work is in historic ethnographic > archives, specifically the Southwest Oregon Research Project. I have > worked with Scott DeLancey, and Phil Cash Cash in the past. I do not > work specifically in linguistics, althought thanks to Scott's great > teaching, I can understand the lingo pretty well. I am in cultural > anthropology/ethnohistory and my work overlaps with linguistic and > native language issues quite a bit. > > My work with the SWORP collection here at the University of Oregon, > where I archivally organized it and created the finding aid. The > collection has an overlap with language revitalization as at least 75% > of the collection contains historic language materials from Oregon > Indians and other surrounding Tribes. As part of the history of SWORP, > the collection has been gifted to all of the Tribes in Oregon, and > many surrounding Tribes in California and Washington State. > > My interest in the questions of working "for" or "with" the tribe are > really a part of everything I do. As a Tribal member and a cultural > anthropologist I feel responsibility in two realms, to academia and to > the Tribal communities in Oregon. In short I am an "insider" and an > "outsider" according to what has been posted previously. I suspect > that many on this list are in a similar situation... > > This difference was part of my decision process when I was > reorganizing the SWORP collection for the library here at UO. I wanted > the collection to be accessible to Indian people as well as academic > researchers of any level of research experience. I knew that the > collection would be given to the tribes in the future and so I created > titles for the files that resonnated with Indian people and academic > researchers. At that time, abt 1999, there was not a lot of direction > from my tribe or really any tribes in Oregon about what they needed > and so I had to think about it fresh and go with my instincts. I think > it was successful. Many tribes and Tribal researchers have expressed > an appreciation for the way the collection is arranged and the ease as > to which they can do research within it. > > Not that my experience or actions are the answer, but it has worked > here in Oregon. I would like to see a similar effort taken by other > repositories of Native ethnohistory so that similar collections are > made more accessible to Native communities. > > So what Scott is saying is incredibly important. In 1998 I took a trip > to Australia, and the approach the Arrente (sp?) people were taking > involved intentionally placing community members and students with > university professors to learn their methods, so that they may return > to Alice Springs with that knowledge and use it in their community. I > saw some amazing language resources being developed for communities > that did not have ready access to computers and associated > technologies. > > But I also think we can explore further the role of the native scholar > working within academia and their community. These scholars, > manytimes, have a completey different motivation for their work, and > different responsibilities and expectations on them than non-native > academics and scholars. In the past 30 years, anthropology and > linguistics scholars have changed their methods and products to > reflect the needs of the native communities but really it is the > native scholars that can truly represent those communities in both > worlds. > > > Thanks for listening, > > David Lewis > University of Oregon > Confederated Tribes of Grand Ronde > -- Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. Department of English Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program American Indian Language Development Institute Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anggarrgoon at gmail.com Wed Jan 11 20:22:19 2006 From: anggarrgoon at gmail.com (Anggarrgoon) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:22:19 -0600 Subject: "In", "for", or "with"? (was Re: [ILAT] LSA 2006) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Me again, I have run into problems with this notion of "community" - in particular, it quickly becomes problematic in areas with patrilects, or clan/family groups, and areas where the "community" is not isomorphic to the "language" or "speech community". For example, if I am employed by a particular family to work on their language, they might not want the work that I do to be more widely available, and that includes to other speakers of the same language. Sometimes the elders in the community want to work with a linguist, but the younger people don't. It's often the younger people in charge of the community council, and they are the people who have most of the experience negotiating with government bodies and who as a consequence have most of the power in current social structures. BUT traditionally, and until quite recently, it would be the elders who would make decisions about who had access to cultural information, including language. So if I take the full community consultation route, I am disregarding the wishes of those who have the knowledge to impart and who want it recorded in the first place. Here "community" is just another external social construct. This is not a hypothetical example, it comes up all the time. Claire From MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US Thu Jan 12 02:40:01 2006 From: MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US (Mia Kalish) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 19:40:01 -0700 Subject: "In", "for", or "with"? (was Re: [ILAT] LSA 2006) In-Reply-To: <43C568FB.9070604@gmail.com> Message-ID: I run into this a lot, too. I take a somewhat different approach, though, because when I was building large computer systems in Manhattan, I would see the same theme expressed by different departments: a particular department would want to see everyone else's data, but wouldn't want anyone near theirs. Usually, logic and reason wouldn't work, so I would tell them that if they couldn't share with others that their department would be left out of the development plan. Funny how that made everyone want to play nice. I'm not a person who does well with divisiveness and side-taking and exclusion, so I avoid situations like that. I also don't like how people wield the power and prestige against each other. I saw this happen a lot in one particular place, where some people where employed on a dictionary grant on and off for 20 years. They really profited from their work but other tribal members were excluded, both from the work and the opportunity to benefit financially. Financial benefit doesn't always sound like much, but some of the people are so very poor that equity becomes a real ethical issue, or should. There are difficulties with equity, of course. Sometimes the battle against the things like alcohol and drugs is just enormous. Sometimes it is devastating and just makes me want to cry (sometimes I cry). But the fact of the matter is, we are working with PEOPLE. Human beings. With hopes and dreams and cares and wants. With struggles and experiences, with brains and hearts and hands and goals. People. Many of the people I run into forget that Ndns are People. Makes me mad. But back to the topic, exclusion of other tribal members doesn't produce a good result. There is a funny "belief" about "fluency" (I don't think Chomsky Ever Did think this through): not everyone knows all the words. Not everyone knows all the ways the words are used. And not everyone is equally sophisticated in all the different ways in which the language can be used. What is collected from an individual is technically "idiolect"; "language" requires lots and lots of people using lots and lots of words with lots and lots of grammar and syntax. Also, some tribes are big enough to do everything all by themselves. But not everyone is. And some tribes are lucky enough to have technie tribal members. Again, that's not true of everyone. So to summarize: There is no 1 Right Way. (That's kind of Enlightenment-Modern-Positivist). There are lots of right ways, and the right way is what works at a particular time for a particular group of people, and that changes over time as time, the group, and the needs and understandings change. That's what I think, anyway. But I'm one of those postmodern, post-structuralist types who believes that learning, understanding, technology, and social relations are all dynamic and constantly changing. :-) Mia -----Original Message----- From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Anggarrgoon Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 1:22 PM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [ILAT] "In", "for", or "with"? (was Re: [ILAT] LSA 2006) Me again, I have run into problems with this notion of "community" - in particular, it quickly becomes problematic in areas with patrilects, or clan/family groups, and areas where the "community" is not isomorphic to the "language" or "speech community". For example, if I am employed by a particular family to work on their language, they might not want the work that I do to be more widely available, and that includes to other speakers of the same language. Sometimes the elders in the community want to work with a linguist, but the younger people don't. It's often the younger people in charge of the community council, and they are the people who have most of the experience negotiating with government bodies and who as a consequence have most of the power in current social structures. BUT traditionally, and until quite recently, it would be the elders who would make decisions about who had access to cultural information, including language. So if I take the full community consultation route, I am disregarding the wishes of those who have the knowledge to impart and who want it recorded in the first place. Here "community" is just another external social construct. This is not a hypothetical example, it comes up all the time. Claire From rtroike at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU Thu Jan 12 08:36:19 2006 From: rtroike at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (Rudy Troike) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 01:36:19 -0700 Subject: "for" vs "for" (vs "with") In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It always interests me when linguists miscommunicate because of the polysemy of words on their native language. I interpreted Susan's placing "for the community" after "with" as representing the meaning of "for" as in "I work for the University of Arizona", i.e. I am an employee, carrying out functions defined by the institution (sometimes dynamically and interactively, to be sure), while Scott's "for", preceding "with", I understood as in the sense "I am working for [a particular political candidate, referendum issue, etc.]" where, to use Fillmore's semantic roles, the community is "Benefactive", i.e. where I see the community as benefiting from my altruistic efforts, either/both within the community or outside as an advocate, and where I may have decided on what will benefit them without asking their advice (colonial paternalism). So both are right in their different sequencing; it's not splitting hairs, but a very different set of semantic/participant roles, to use linguistic jargon, with "for" being polysemic, or conflating different case-indications. "With" is also polysemic, and even more slippery in interpretation, so it can be vaguely comitative or deeply joint-participative. One would always have to ask for more specificity where "with" is being claimed. Rudy From djcunlif at GLAM.AC.UK Thu Jan 12 09:39:01 2006 From: djcunlif at GLAM.AC.UK (Cunliffe D J (Comp)) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 09:39:01 -0000 Subject: "In", "for", or "with"? (was Re: [ILAT] LSA 2006) Message-ID: Hi all, Arriving at this from a different (computing) perspective, "buy-in", "ownership" (which I guess are "with") and ultimately "empowerment" (which I guess is "without" - without us!) are all important and highly topical concepts and factors in successful systems. However it is not always clear how you put these fine principles into practice. I was wondering if anyone here has read "Decolonizing Methodologies: Research and Indigenous Peoples" by Linda Tuhiwai Smith? I borrowed it very briefly from another library and never really had time to read it properly. It looked like there might be some useful ideas in it, though a lot of the contextualising discussion went over my head somewhat :-) I would be interesting in hearing other people's opinions or any other recommendations along similar lines. Be seeing you. Daniel. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US Thu Jan 12 14:42:13 2006 From: MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US (Mia Kalish) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 07:42:13 -0700 Subject: "In", "for", or "with"? (was Re: [ILAT] LSA 2006) In-Reply-To: <0BA7EE4D4646E0409D458D347C508B780175CABE@MAILSERV1.uni.glam.ac.uk> Message-ID: Hi, to Rudy . . . long time no hear. I was quoting you on Diné octagon vs. triangle yesterday. Hi, Daniel. The Smiths: (there are two of them, you know :-) ). I have read Decolonizing Methodologies . . . although several years ago. The overarching theme is that Indigenous people have been abused muchly and long by people who come in, take their knowledge (in biology, botany, and healing as well as language), run off with it, publish or develop a lucrative drug, and never return much or anything to the people who shared their knowledge with them. The underlying understanding, although I don’t recall that Smith spends too much time on this, is that the Indigenous people are considered “less than”, not quite human following the hierarchy of man that was socially devised by Darwin’s cousin Francis Galton. Darwin did not devise “survival of the fittest,” Spencer did. And it was Galton who mapped Darwin’s genetic component to Spencer’s idea. Galton coined the term “eugenics,” and the very first school of thought/discipline for which America became academically famous was the School of Eugenics at Harvard, headed by Louis Agassiz, who came to Harvard from Greece. Dalton envisioned “the development of a strong `caste sense' among the naturally gifted members of each social class” (members.iinet.net.au/~sejones/pe15socl.html). This idea is an extension and “refinement,” if you can call it that, from Malthus (whom I haven’t read, as opposed to these other people here). Smith recommends some best practices for working with Indigenous People. Here in America, there is a requirement in all NSF and NIH funded research that if any profit is made as a result of the work, it has to be shared with the community who participated in the development and exchange of knowledge. Smith also says that the term “research” is anathema to Indigenous communities, because of the abuses. This is really something to think about, because people get all “oh I want to do research in your community,” thinking about themselves and their projected efforts in the context of how research is viewed (with awe and respect) in the academic community. And the Indigenous People get all squinty-eyed and think, Oh you do, do you! So you should reacquire the book. I can recommend Amazon.com.uk. Check out Devon Mihesuah, and Sandy Grande. I think both of these people, especially Grande, are very far from you field, but definitely worth reading to see what the abuses of Indigenous people in America have produced. The ruling class tried to make Native People go away: “Kill the Indian to save the Man” was a popular slogan in the 1800’s. Of course, the reason this movement started was in opposition to a plan the U.S. Government had to annihilate all the Indians, through disease, starvation, and plain, outright slaughter. ([Non-Indigenous] People like me who are Jewish, and people like me who are Irish, we know a lot about this kind of technique.) You could check out Colonizer’s View of the World, too. Forgot who wrote it. If you’re interested, I can go check my copy. :-) Mia _____ From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Cunliffe D J (Comp) Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 2:39 AM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [ILAT] "In", "for", or "with"? (was Re: [ILAT] LSA 2006) Hi all, Arriving at this from a different (computing) perspective, ”buy-in”, “ownership” (which I guess are “with”) and ultimately “empowerment” (which I guess is “without” – without us!) are all important and highly topical concepts and factors in successful systems. However it is not always clear how you put these fine principles into practice. I was wondering if anyone here has read “Decolonizing Methodologies: Research and Indigenous Peoples” by Linda Tuhiwai Smith? I borrowed it very briefly from another library and never really had time to read it properly. It looked like there might be some useful ideas in it, though a lot of the contextualising discussion went over my head somewhat :-) I would be interesting in hearing other people’s opinions or any other recommendations along similar lines. Be seeing you. Daniel. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US Thu Jan 12 15:11:12 2006 From: MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US (Mia Kalish) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 08:11:12 -0700 Subject: Two Recommended Google Searches Message-ID: For people who are interested in how the social ideas that were popular in last few centuries have contributed to what we see today as "truth" about Indigenous People around the world, search "Darwin's cousin". To learn more about how the Eugenics concept (which Hitler got from the U.S., by the way, not the other way around) is held in place even in contemporary times, search "Harvard Eugenics". This may not Seem Relevant on the surface, but when you think how people develop their "common belief systems" by listening both to the experts and to the beliefs in their social groups, then you can see how much of the research attitude toward Indigenous people evolved and remained in place. You can also begin to see what Indigenous scholars are talking about when they talk about the wide division between how Indigene views the world, vs. how academe views the world. (For this knowledge, I owe a debt of gratitude to my mentor, Dr. Elba Serrano :-) I was her TA in an Ethics class. Every institution should have one - an Ethics course, I mean. And it should be required.) Best, Mia -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From annier at sfu.ca Thu Jan 12 15:17:13 2006 From: annier at sfu.ca (annie ross) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 07:17:13 -0800 Subject: 'In', 'for', or 'with'? (was Re: [ILAT] LSA 2006) Message-ID: An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US Thu Jan 12 15:46:20 2006 From: MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US (Mia Kalish) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 08:46:20 -0700 Subject: 'In', 'for', or 'with'? (was Re: [ILAT] LSA 2006) In-Reply-To: <200601121517.k0CFHDoD014661@rm-rstar.sfu.ca> Message-ID: Hi, Annie, I appreciate your viewpoints, I really do. But I sit in classes here in the Southwest, and I hear people talk about how there "used to be" Indians. They also talk about "how Columbus discovered America," as if there were not hundreds of millions of people here. Not everyone has the opportunity to have contact with Indigenous people, but they still vote, create ideas, write, learn and share. Without others to write the books that these people will read, without people to make the arguments, to point out the abuses and how they have hurt, these people Will Never Know. And they will continue to believe that all the Indians are in the Smithsonian. They will believe that the North American continent was empty. They will believe that going to South America and taking the plant materials, and the knowledge of the people there is "discovery," that they, themselves have made it, and that those Indigenous people who shared their knowledge are "less than" human, have been "discovered" and are therefore not entitled to benefit from the efforts like they are. Without people writing, this is what we have. . . . Writing is how people far away begin to learn what we are thinking, and seeing, and feeling. Do you know for a long time people believed that animals didn't feel because they couldn't/didn't communicate their feelings like humans? Do you know some people still believe animals don't feel? Without writing, without sharing, without exchanging knowledge, this is what we have. Without the Smiths, it is difficult for me to make an argument in some of my classes, in some of my papers. To me, and others who fight the gatekeepers, who fight for learning materials that reflect Indigenous knowledge, culture, and ways of learning, without the Smiths, without Devon Mihesuah and Vine Deloria, Jr., without Daniel Wildcat and others who struggle and write to construct equity for Indigenous people, I would be lost. People do learn from books. People without hearts, without sensitivity, people who are selfish, who are all about themselves, can learn from books. They can learn by sharing the experiences of people who they will never meet in person. I'll tell you a story. It's about "love". Once upon a time, there was a person who very much wanted to learn her language. She went to school and struggled to find ways of making learning the language easy and fun for adults like her. She met some other people and worked with them, and came up with some things she thought were really wonderful. She went back to her Tribe, and said, Look at these wonderful things I have. I want to share them with you so we adults can learn our language and speak with our families. And the Tribe had a linguist who "owned" them. And they went to him and said, Look, someone is making things that move and make sounds so people can learn. He convinced them this was bad, that they wouldn't get the money if they let her share these things. . . And so the Tribe turned against her, and wouldn't let her share her beautiful materials, built with love and dedication, built with a sense of Tribal belonging. And so she went away, to find others who might be interested . . . Mia -----Original Message----- From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of annie ross Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 8:17 AM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [ILAT] 'In', 'for', or 'with'? (was Re: [ILAT] LSA 2006) re: conversations about in and out hi everyone. i am not a linguist, but i appreciate your work. and i learn by reading your emails. i am a first nations person, and i work in diverse first nations communties. you know, this whole conversation about in, out, whatever, doesn't help. because it is all about hte artificial boundaries humans are so good at creating in order to make chaos where none needs to exist. it is all about love, dedication, hard work, and more love. so that means a person listens, takes care, and walks in the sacred path of learning and teaching simultaneously. academic life likes to teach us academics that we are somehow different (smarter, more this or that), but we are not. if we all knew that, there would be fewer problems. one can not learn this from any book or from any theorist. so skip the darn book and develop your compassion, develop and nurture the ability to see the needs and desires of others and yourself. chop the firewood, cook the tea, laugh, think together, be in community. all of our work is about justice and equality. yes, abuses of the past are important to know. that is called american history. we all should know that already. and those horrible, beautiful, and difficult things do not dictate my present actions. love and hard work do. there is no 'insider' ther is no 'outsider'. that is the big secret. ex: harrington, the proverbial 'outsider', through his scribbles, his scraps of paper, transcending the grave, is having a major impact in communtiies right now. he did not care if he was in, out, and all that. he was compelled. and it is not until now, that we see the sacredness of the work transcribed on notebooks, cards, papers. humans are very good at creating boundaries. reject them. i believe we are all led from a sacred place to do good work. have faith, work hard, talk, listen, revise, but keep moving. annie On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 07:42:13 -0700 ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU wrote: > Hi, to Rudy . . . long time no hear. I was quoting you on Diné octagon vs. > triangle yesterday. > > > > Hi, Daniel. > > > > The Smiths: (there are two of them, you know :-) ). I have read > Decolonizing > Methodologies . . . although several years ago. The overarching theme is > that Indigenous people have been abused muchly and long by people who come > in, take their knowledge (in biology, botany, and healing as well as > language), run off with it, publish or develop a lucrative drug, and never > return much or anything to the people who shared their knowledge with them. > > > > The underlying understanding, although I don’t recall that Smith spends too > much time on this, is that the Indigenous people are considered “less > than”, > not quite human following the hierarchy of man that was socially devised by > Darwin’s cousin Francis Galton. Darwin did not devise “survival of the > fittest,” Spencer did. And it was Galton who mapped Darwin’s genetic > component to Spencer’s idea. Galton coined the term “eugenics,” and > the very > first school of thought/discipline for which America became academically > famous was the School of Eugenics at Harvard, headed by Louis Agassiz, who > came to Harvard from Greece. Dalton envisioned “the development of a strong > `caste sense' among the naturally gifted members of each social class” > (members.iinet.net.au/~sejones/pe15socl.html). This idea is an > extension and > “refinement,” if you can call it that, from Malthus (whom I haven’t > read, as > opposed to these other people here). > > > > Smith recommends some best practices for working with Indigenous People. > Here in America, there is a requirement in all NSF and NIH funded research > that if any profit is made as a result of the work, it has to be > shared with > the community who participated in the development and exchange of > knowledge. > > > > > Smith also says that the term “research” is anathema to Indigenous > communities, because of the abuses. This is really something to think > about, > because people get all “oh I want to do research in your community,” > thinking about themselves and their projected efforts in the context of how > research is viewed (with awe and respect) in the academic community. > And the > Indigenous People get all squinty-eyed and think, Oh you do, do you! > > > > So you should reacquire the book. I can recommend Amazon.com.uk. Check out > Devon Mihesuah, and Sandy Grande. I think both of these people, especially > Grande, are very far from you field, but definitely worth reading to see > what the abuses of Indigenous people in America have produced. The ruling > class tried to make Native People go away: “Kill the Indian to save > the Man” > was a popular slogan in the 1800’s. Of course, the reason this movement > started was in opposition to a plan the U.S. Government had to annihilate > all the Indians, through disease, starvation, and plain, outright > slaughter. > ([Non-Indigenous] People like me who are Jewish, and people like me who are > Irish, we know a lot about this kind of technique.) > > > > You could check out Colonizer’s View of the World, too. Forgot who > wrote it. > If you’re interested, I can go check my copy. > > :-) > > Mia > > > > > > _____ > > From: Indigenous Languages and Technology > [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] > On Behalf Of Cunliffe D J (Comp) > Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 2:39 AM > To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > Subject: Re: [ILAT] "In", "for", or "with"? (was Re: [ILAT] LSA 2006) > > > > Hi all, > > > > Arriving at this from a different (computing) perspective, ”buy-in”, > “ownership” (which I guess are “with”) and ultimately “empowerment” > (which I > guess is “without” – without us!) are all important and highly topical > concepts and factors in successful systems. However it is not always clear > how you put these fine principles into practice. > > > > I was wondering if anyone here has read “Decolonizing Methodologies: > Research and Indigenous Peoples” by Linda Tuhiwai Smith? I borrowed it very > briefly from another library and never really had time to read it properly. > It looked like there might be some useful ideas in it, though a lot of the > contextualising discussion went over my head somewhat :-) > > > > I would be interesting in hearing other people’s opinions or any other > recommendations along similar lines. > > > > Be seeing you. > > > > Daniel. > > > annie g. ross First Nations Studies School for the Contemporary Arts Simon Fraser University 8888 University Drive Burnaby, British Columbia V5A 1S6 annier at sfu.ca Telephone: 604-291-3575 Facsimile: 604-291-5666 From phonosemantics at earthlink.net Thu Jan 12 19:38:40 2006 From: phonosemantics at earthlink.net (jess tauber) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 14:38:40 -0500 Subject: 'In', 'for', or 'with'? (was Re: [ILAT] LSA 2006) Message-ID: Jeff Goldblum's chaotician character in the Jurassic Park movie equates discovery with "the rape of the natural world". A bit oversimplified, but pretty much on the mark. We have a governmental system that allows one to patent genes which have existed (in varying forms) for billions of years. If you can scratch, claw, gouge, or otherwise cadge something from somewhere or someone else, then bully for you. It is the first law of creating Empire, Profit, Capitalism. As we become more refined in our methods we often develop the notion of "giving something back", which helps us soothe our growing consciousness that our behaviors may not be so different from that of common thugs after all. So we took your house- at least we're giving you bus fare. If this were a fair world, and surviving wronged peoples were able successfully to bring suit against their aggressors for these wrongs in a truly impartial court, I shudder to think what the penalties and recompenses would be. Luckily for us fat and happy beneficiaries of that sad history this is unlikely to happen barring space alien invasion or ambitious viruses unleashed by disgruntled indigenes. See! Now you've made me get the NSA interested in ILAT. If just a tiny fraction of the resources spent on theme parks, multicolored toilet paper, and cheap hamburgers in our great self-delusional me-me-me circus of a "civilization" that we're so proud of were actually aimed back towards those who've had the most extracted from them perhaps the final annihilation of some or even many of the threatened and dying languages, cultures, and natural environments of the world could be staved off. More preaching to the choir. But as charity the recipients should be grateful for, all decided from the outside by history's "winners" as more well-meaning meddling? Even in love and sharing, the question may still pop up "who's on top?" But more basically, sometimes the other just isn't interested, and you have to separate what they want from what you want for them. Otherwise action verges on an intervention, or worse. Jess Tauber From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU Thu Jan 12 20:44:02 2006 From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 13:44:02 -0700 Subject: Can We Still Speak Chinook? (fwd) Message-ID: Can We Still Speak Chinook? Link Address: http://thetyee.ca/Life/2006/01/10/StillSpeakChinook Published: 2006-01-10 01:42:00 By Nicholas Klassen TheTyee.ca A language 'thrown together to make a strange new country.' At her swearing-in as lieutenant governor in 2001, Iona Campagnolo concluded her remarks with a curious line that few, if anyone in attendance, would have understood: "konoway tillicums klatawa kunamokst klaska mamook okoke huloima chee illahie" - Chinook for "everyone was thrown together to make this strange new country." Campagnolo's nod to BC's lost tongue reflects the importance she places on honouring aboriginal contributions to BC history, and her efforts seem to have rubbed off on Premier Gordon Campbell. At the recent First Ministers' Aboriginal Summit in Kelowna, the premier stressed the need for dialogue and the formulation of a "new working relationship aimed at ensuring Canada's third solitude is henceforth recognized as a true founding partner in confederation." It's impressive stuff, given his track record. But while Campbell's intention is commendable, Campagnolo's image of everyone being "thrown together" is perhaps a more constructive metaphor than the rhetoric of solitudes. And as a language, or jargon, that all BCers can take ownership of, Chinook holds important lessons in seeing past our divisions and moving forward. Bridge of words Campagnolo's citation was culled from Terry Glavin's lengthy Chinook/English poem "Rain Language," which is included in A voice great within us, Glavin's exploration into Chinook he co-wrote with Charles Lillard. For Glavin, the legacy of the language remains important today "because it challenges the narrative that starts with the proposition: 'white good, native bad.' The story of Chinook defies that narrative. It defies the conventions of European settlement in a place that experienced the last colonial enterprise on the continent." Chinook served as a tangible bridge between all groups -whether aboriginal, European, Chinese, Japanese, even Hawaiian - and as a foundation for a syncretic culture where no one identity had to be dominant. Carryl Coles, whose Neskonlith forebears in the Shuswap region spoke Chinook, sees how the jargon would have connected cultures: "Language is an obvious barrier for communication and Chinook seems to have brought different people together. So there's a lesson in that." Chinook's roots lie in the enormous linguistic diversity of North America's northwest coast. Penned in by mountains and ocean, with an abundant food supply, the indigenous population was a relatively sedentary crowd. Dozens of languages evolved in isolated valleys and inlets, so the people developed a common tongue in order to trade. Marianne Ignace - who teaches aboriginal language and curriculum in the Secwepemc Nation surrounding Kamloops - emphasizes this point because "until recently, the literature classified Chinook as a trade language introduced by white people. So it's important to set the record straight. This was an international language aboriginal people developed among themselves that gained a new element with the arrival of Europeans." News in Chinook Through the fur trade, French, English and Cree words entered the language. Missionaries added their contributions, and eventually Chinook became the lingua franca for as many as 250,000 people along the Pacific Slope from Alaska to Oregon. Glavin reflects that "Chinook was the language of Vancouver before the fire. With it, we wrote poetry, we offered up our prayers, we had a newspaper. It wasn't just a tool for trading. It was the identity of a people." Government officials sometimes conducted criminal trials and commissions of inquiry in Chinook. A French missionary published the Chinook-language Kamloops Wawa - which advertised itself as "the queerest newspaper in the world" - out of the back room of a church on a Kamloops reserve between 1891 and 1923. Old copies of the Wawa provide an invaluable window into the world of Chinook for modern fans of the language like University of Victoria linguist David Robertson. Robertson notes that Chinook facilitated native-newcomer relations in nineteenth-century BC because new arrivals could pick it up with less difficulty than a pure indigenous language. But he's careful not to romanticize it. "Some folks like to paint a picture of settler and native arm-in-arm having a rollicking good time on the frontier. And while that wasn't the case, everyone did know from the start that Chinook was not the white man's language. That was an important point." What's a Tyee? According to Robertson, Chinook is best described as a reduced and simplified version of the ancestral languages that were members of the Chinookan family. This is the root of words like iht "one" and tillicum "friend/people." There is also a small group of frequently used words from Nuuchahnulth like mamuk "to do/make" and tyee "chief, or something of superior order." A few decades after initial contact, Chinook suddenly absorbed large amounts of words from French like labush "mouth" and lametsin, "medicine." For the rest of its history, the language of the English newcomers - referred to as King George men, or Kinchotsh - became the single predominant linguistic influence on the jargon. This created some delightful hybrids: chuck is water, so salt chuck is the ocean. Ollallie means berries, so, hen ollallie means eggs. Kapswalla is to steal, so a kapswall man is a thief. Arguably the most recognizable Chinook word - one of the few still commonly in use - is skookum, which can mean swift, strong, well-made, first rate, or cool, but with a tough edge. Although today these words rarely pass from our lips, they still pepper the landscape. Like ghosts walking out of nowhere, Chinook words can be found from the churning waters of Sechelt Inlet's Skookumchuck narrows, to the town of that same name in the Rocky Mountain trench. In addition to the name of this news site, you'll find Tyee Creek, Tyee Butte, Tyee Lake, Tyee Glacier. Cultus Lakes abound - though it's an ominous moniker given that cultus means worthless or good-for-nothing. And how many people driving through the Fraser Canyon's Boston Bar are aware that the Boston is actually Chinook for "American," a term that came about because most American boats that came to these parts were based out of Boston? Faded tongue While Chinook flourished from roughly 1858 to 1900, it hit a wall in the twentieth century. World War I, the Spanish flu and residential schools decimated and disrupted the population. Mass migration into the subsequent void from out-of-province diluted the number of Chinook speakers. All the while, judges, the police, politicians, newspaper editors and the mercantile class made a concerted effort to construct an identity of Anglo hegemony. Chinook was driven to the margins, though it kept peeking up in logging camps and fishing outports. Still, even many of those who clung to it failed to appreciate where Chinook came from. In A voice great within us, Lillard tells a story of picking up a hitchhiker near Kamloops in the 1960s and being taken aback when the young man greeted him with "Klahowya," Chinook for "hello." The young man shrugged when Lillard asked him how he came to use the greeting; it was simply a term his father had always used. When Lillard explained its roots, that it was in large part an expression BC's aboriginal heritage, the passenger had to chuckle, "[my dad] hates Indians. Wait until I tell him where the word comes from. He's gonna shake like a dog shitting peach pits." Although these attitudes still exist in BC, we can honestly say we've come a long way since then. And a fuller appreciation of the history of Chinook can bring BCers closer, still. For some enthusiasts, that means trying to learn the language anew. More realistically, others simply want to raise awareness. Coles is inspired by the interest in Chinook on the Grand Ronde reservation in Oregon - where the language is still actively spoken - and would love to have a gathering of Chinook aficionados in her area. She still recalls the first time she came across a copy of the Wawa. "I was blown away, and immediately wanted to know if anyone was doing anything with Chinook anymore. It's such a great way to get in touch with our past." That past was not without its divides, but when BC was Chinook territory, it was a more multi-ethnic, multi-lingual place than most BCers realize. Indeed, our Chinook era, like today, was a time when we were all thrown together to make a strange new country. Nesika mamook chee oakut wawa, We made a new way to speak Tamahnous oakut mitlite wawa, A magic way to speak, Skookum oakut, nesika oakut A strong way, our own way. - Rain Language Nicholas Klassen is a Vancouver-based writer. From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU Thu Jan 12 20:46:39 2006 From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 13:46:39 -0700 Subject: ABORIGINAL LANGUAGES MUSTN'T DIE: GOORI ELDER (fwd) Message-ID: ABORIGINAL LANGUAGES MUSTN'T DIE: GOORI ELDER 12.1.2006 08:08:48 http://www9.sbs.com.au/radio/index.php?page=wv&newsID=128145 How much is your culture tied in with the language you speak? And, in today's globalised economy, is there still a case for teaching languages other than English at Australian schools? Darcel Moyle is a Goori woman from Minjerribah -- otherwise known as North Stradbroke Island, just off the coast of Brisbane. She's also an Aboriginal Education Officer with the Australian Education Union, as well as the Indigenous representative on the ACTU. Darcel was one of the speakers at a national language teachers' conference in Melbourne, exploring the topic, Languages and Cultures Education - Why?. Here are Darcel Moyle's views... [audio] SOURCE: World View From anggarrgoon at gmail.com Thu Jan 12 23:15:25 2006 From: anggarrgoon at gmail.com (Anggarrgoon) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 17:15:25 -0600 Subject: AMNH papers online Message-ID: http://digitallibrary.amnh.org/dspace/ The American Museum of Natural History has digitised a heap of publications which may be of use and/or interest to people on this list. Claire From djcunlif at GLAM.AC.UK Mon Jan 16 10:36:36 2006 From: djcunlif at GLAM.AC.UK (Cunliffe D J (Comp)) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 10:36:36 -0000 Subject: 'In', 'for', or 'with'? Message-ID: Hi All, I think there is something in this conversation that strikes to the heart of what we (or most of us I guess) are trying to achieve. Annie Ross wrote about the artificiality of borders between people and that "...academic life likes to teach us academics that we are somehow different (smarter, more this or that), but we are not. if we all knew that, there would be fewer problems. ... there is no 'insider' ther is no 'outsider'. that is the big secret." While I am entirely happy to accept that academics aren't smarter etc, (guess who spent 45 minutes walking around Bristol Airport car park in the rain in the dark on Sunday night because he hadn't thought to make a note of where he parked the car!) I really think that there are some important issues around the insider / outsider boundary. If we fail to recognise and manage these issues then at best our efforts will have no effect, and at worse will cause damage. As an Englishman living and working in Wales and as a non-Welsh speaker (practically) working with the Welsh language, I recognise that I am 'outside' along several dimensions. Whilst I am happy to accept the label "incomer", hopefully I have managed to avoid being branded as an outright colonist. No matter how long I live in Wales, or how good my Welsh becomes (I wish!) I cannot ever foresee a time in which I would actually BE Welsh - either in my own mind or the minds of others. To my mind the best I can do is to recognise this and to try to identify appropriate ways of managing it. Being a simple computer person, my preference is for simple practical guidelines like those contained in (part of) Decolonizing Methodologies rather than high brow discussions of the need to re-radicalise the post-colonial agenda within the post-modern neo-liberal context (hmmm... can't help feeling that I ought to have included feminism in there somewhere...) Be seeing you, Daniel. From MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US Mon Jan 16 14:34:40 2006 From: MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US (Mia Kalish) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 07:34:40 -0700 Subject: 'In', 'for', or 'with'? In-Reply-To: <0BA7EE4D4646E0409D458D347C508B780184C75A@MAILSERV1.uni.glam.ac.uk> Message-ID: I agree with Daniel, but in a different way. My friend Yolanda and I are both 1st generation Docs-to-be. Both of us come from environments that would be called "marginalized". Yolanda's family was very, very poor growing up. Mine was less poor, tending to middle and upper middle class over time. The difficulty with mine is that alcoholism was the central social guideline. When I left my home town and home state to get a job, and happened to discover that I loved computer languages, I had opportunities that my family could not 'imagine'. They tried to relate what I did to something physical that they understood, like plumbing, or carpentry, even accounting, but to no avail. My mother, who was very cruel anyway, was fond of saying, after 20 years of my trying, also to no avail, to explain, "You are my daughter and I have no idea what you do for a living". She was Very Proud that she could make me feel like an "outsider" in my own family. So my experiences and increasing education moved me slowly along an invisible line that I only now recognize. I could feel the sense of "being left out," of "not belonging," because little that I said made any sense to them. What was my world was clearly not theirs, and there was no way that I could share my understandings and experiences. My friend Yolanda is experiencing the same thing in the process of getting her doctorate. Her family is generally very nice, not torn apart by alcoholism or drug addiction and the miseries that stem from them. But as she learns things, she finds that she is unable to share them with her family. Not only are her ideas out of synch with the ways people in her family think, but her family - like mine in many ways - is unwilling to make the effort to learn new things to talk with her. She has become an "outsider" in her own family. We have talked about this at length, first in the sheer surprise and comfort of finding that the other had or was sharing the same insider/outsider experiences vis a vis "Family" and "Education". But this is a common experience: A tribal Elder once said to me, "When they come back from school, we throw them out of the tribe, because they don't think the way we do, they think differently". So maybe people who get schooling beyond the 6th or 7th grade are not "smarter," but they have different ways of thinking and talking about things. They have different experiences that they include in that process. And they have different goals. Yolanda talks about how in her family, getting a job as a sales clerk in a department store was a crowning achievement. Today, Yolanda is a college instructor, a task way different both in required knowledge and remuneration, than the family pinnacle. We often talk about how this group and that group needs to get more education. But we do not often talk about the costs of that education. We do not talk about the costs to family and tribal relationships. We don't even talk about how it feels. People who come from families where others have gotten degrees have (I am assuming) a climate where further education is encouraged and valued. There are people in the family who share similar experiences, and the family has already been changed because of the influence of the education. So getting a degree does not force a serious Either/Or choice. How many people on this list, I wonder, had to choose between Family and Education, Tribe and Education, perhaps even cultural and social Self and education. How many people found that their ways of talking post-Education distinguished them uncomfortably from their pre-Education milieu. They say, You can never go home again. At least for me and for Yolanda, this is true. And perhaps the discussion is appropriate for Martin Luther King day. Mia -----Original Message----- From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Cunliffe D J (Comp) Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 3:37 AM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [ILAT] 'In', 'for', or 'with'? Hi All, I think there is something in this conversation that strikes to the heart of what we (or most of us I guess) are trying to achieve. Annie Ross wrote about the artificiality of borders between people and that "...academic life likes to teach us academics that we are somehow different (smarter, more this or that), but we are not. if we all knew that, there would be fewer problems. ... there is no 'insider' ther is no 'outsider'. that is the big secret." While I am entirely happy to accept that academics aren't smarter etc, (guess who spent 45 minutes walking around Bristol Airport car park in the rain in the dark on Sunday night because he hadn't thought to make a note of where he parked the car!) I really think that there are some important issues around the insider / outsider boundary. If we fail to recognise and manage these issues then at best our efforts will have no effect, and at worse will cause damage. As an Englishman living and working in Wales and as a non-Welsh speaker (practically) working with the Welsh language, I recognise that I am 'outside' along several dimensions. Whilst I am happy to accept the label "incomer", hopefully I have managed to avoid being branded as an outright colonist. No matter how long I live in Wales, or how good my Welsh becomes (I wish!) I cannot ever foresee a time in which I would actually BE Welsh - either in my own mind or the minds of others. To my mind the best I can do is to recognise this and to try to identify appropriate ways of managing it. Being a simple computer person, my preference is for simple practical guidelines like those contained in (part of) Decolonizing Methodologies rather than high brow discussions of the need to re-radicalise the post-colonial agenda within the post-modern neo-liberal context (hmmm... can't help feeling that I ought to have included feminism in there somewhere...) Be seeing you, Daniel. From coyotez at UOREGON.EDU Mon Jan 16 15:59:56 2006 From: coyotez at UOREGON.EDU (David Gene Lewis) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 07:59:56 -0800 Subject: 'In', 'for', or 'with'? Message-ID: Klahowya all, Wow, this is turning into a great thread!, Anyway I wanted to ask another question. How many people have had the experience of culture shifting? I mean, I live in several worlds and at times can shift my thinking and language according to the circumstances. When in a Native context I know that my language and demeanor and thinking changes to fit the correct context. And when I am in the academic university context IO will change to fit that world including using a different language and demeanor. When I am with family, I feel also different, changing my thinking and language. So has anyone noticed this. Its rather odd but I think is part of what Native people do to operate in our world (s). David David Lewis University of Oregon Confederated Tribes of Grand Ronde From annier at sfu.ca Mon Jan 16 17:09:31 2006 From: annier at sfu.ca (annie ross) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 09:09:31 -0800 Subject: 'In', 'for', or 'with'? Message-ID: An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US Mon Jan 16 17:28:50 2006 From: MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US (Mia Kalish) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 10:28:50 -0700 Subject: 'In', 'for', or 'with'? In-Reply-To: <200601161709.k0GH9Vu1007226@rm-rstar.sfu.ca> Message-ID: I think it's not right to say, "fuck the labelers" on a discussion board like this. People have their ideas, and they have a right to discuss them without being assaulted. By restricting the opportunity for speech, for presentation and examination of ideas, those who do it attempt to create their own particular centrism. We see this in Education all the time, where references are all to the science as developed in Europe, the ideas as developed in Europe, the expectations as developed in Europe. People need to see things reflected in their own understandings. To force one set of understandings on someone who is trying to get a clearer understanding of their own is to destroy their learning path. We have seen this happen over and over. And the children are the ones who are suffering for it. As for "labels," everything that has a word has a label. So "love" is a label. And what is "love" anyway? It is a complex concept that is comprised of the layers of understandings in a culture. "Real" is a similar construct. What is a "real" number: it's a number that is composed of a mantissa and an exponent. What's "understanding"? Is it like, but certainly not exactly the same, as "emotional empathy"? Is it the ability to grok "mantissa"? Exponent? Is it the ability to recognize a word in a sentence? Is it the ability to recognize the word and reproduce it orally, exactly? Is it the ability to recognize the word and reproduce it orally in a different sentence with a slightly different (polysemic) meaning? It is easy to talk about words that have physical or logical targets, like rock and 4. It is not easy OR accurate to talk about concepts that are integrations of cultural and individual metaphors, like "happiness," or "caring" (See Valenzuela on this), or "pride" or "thoughtfulness" or "joy" or "pleasure" or "shame" or "honor". All these things and more depend on the cultural and individual values, mores, goals, understandings, perceptions, emotional responses, and the sheer safety or danger of reproducing or changing. In a postmodern, poststructuralist world, like ours, there are many opinions and views, simply because of the recognition of complex integrations. In a poststructural sense, things are always changing, including both our understandings and our complex integrations, as we have more experiences and modify what we think. In this PM, PS world, there is No One Right, and No One Wrong. There is no discovery outside human perception; god didn't make the world as a game for people to learn lessons and succeed. The world just is; what we know is what we perceive and think. Our meaning is what we are able to conceptualize, communicate and share with others (and no, "communication" and "sharing" are not the same). So it would be nice if people realized that they shouldn't attack other participants. :-) Thank you, Mia -----Original Message----- From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of annie ross Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 10:10 AM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [ILAT] 'In', 'for', or 'with'? news for today: so.. "love" is the radical word. i presented a series of prints and paintings at the CAA in seattle . ithey are about words, meditationss, time (i.e; love, peace, understanding). breaking down artificial human-made constructs. in a world where normal human bodily functions, fuck, shit, are the expletives, no., war is the expletive. if labeling makes you happy, then live in your labeled world. if blaming makes you comfortable, then be comfortable. love is the radical word people are killed for saying 'peace' peacepeacepeacepeace, ad infinitum and as to the question of being so many people, depending on the context, courage all! be you. i am who i am, to quote popeye, with my family, academia, community, conferences, wherever and with whomever. that is called being real in the world. real real real and those who believe in sacred work, equalilty, and possibilities, will get it and those who don't will spend their time guarding a non-existent gates in the 'perceptual prison their culture has erected for them', to use the words of johansen and grinde and some say i am stupid and some say i am ok and they are both correct so love peace, love love, fuck the labelers annie re: Being a simple computer person, my preference is for simple practical > guidelines like those contained in (part of) Decolonizing Methodologies > rather than high brow discussions of the need to re-radicalise the > post-colonial agenda within the post-modern neo-liberal context (hmmm... > can't help feeling that I ought to have included feminism in there > somewhere...) > Daniel On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 10:36:36 -0000 ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU wrote: > Hi All, > > I think there is something in this conversation that strikes to the > heart of what we (or most of us I guess) are trying to achieve. > > Annie Ross wrote about the artificiality of borders between people and > that "...academic life likes to teach us academics that we > are somehow different (smarter, more this or that), but we are not. if > we > all knew that, there would be fewer problems. ... there is no 'insider' > ther is no 'outsider'. that is the big secret." > > While I am entirely happy to accept that academics aren't smarter etc, > (guess who spent 45 minutes walking around Bristol Airport car park in > the rain in the dark on Sunday night because he hadn't thought to make a > note of where he parked the car!) I really think that there are some > important issues around the insider / outsider boundary. If we fail to > recognise and manage these issues then at best our efforts will have no > effect, and at worse will cause damage. > > As an Englishman living and working in Wales and as a non-Welsh speaker > (practically) working with the Welsh language, I recognise that I am > 'outside' along several dimensions. Whilst I am happy to accept the > label "incomer", hopefully I have managed to avoid being branded as an > outright colonist. > > No matter how long I live in Wales, or how good my Welsh becomes (I > wish!) I cannot ever foresee a time in which I would actually BE Welsh - > either in my own mind or the minds of others. > > To my mind the best I can do is to recognise this and to try to identify > appropriate ways of managing it. > > > > Be seeing you, > Being a simple computer person, my preference is for simple practical > guidelines like those contained in (part of) Decolonizing Methodologies > rather than high brow discussions of the need to re-radicalise the > post-colonial agenda within the post-modern neo-liberal context (hmmm... > can't help feeling that I ought to have included feminism in there > somewhere...) > Daniel. > annie g. ross First Nations Studies School for the Contemporary Arts Simon Fraser University 8888 University Drive Burnaby, British Columbia V5A 1S6 annier at sfu.ca Telephone: 604-291-3575 Facsimile: 604-291-5666 From MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US Mon Jan 16 18:40:38 2006 From: MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US (Mia Kalish) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 11:40:38 -0700 Subject: 'In', 'for', or 'with'? In-Reply-To: <200601161559.k0GFxuEC015711@smtp.uoregon.edu> Message-ID: Hi, David, When I first read your email, I thought I would wait and see what others had to say. But then, after some talk with one of my friends about things that are occurring, I thought I would share our perceptions. We, too, behave differently in different groups. In the disciplines, there are different ways of thinking. In journals, there are different ways of writing and formatting. In technology, there are different languages to write in, and in social milieus, there are different sets of mores and expectations. One doesn't wear jeans to a state dinner and expect to be invited back. One doesn't dress poorly to attend a quincinera without expecting to give great insult. One doesn't talk about object oriented programming in a Psychology seminar, nor about Communications theory in a Physics seminar. It takes time to learn what people in different groups expect and value, and also to decide whether we want to be part of that group or not, and if so, how much. How we speak varies with what our audience understands. I don't talk about creating Event Listeners when I am teaching people how to build learning materials, although Event Listeners are a critical part of how the technology works. But it is just not appropriate for the people who are trying to learn. Also, I don't flood them with words and expect them a) to build their own images (takes too much time), and b) expect them to build mental images that match mine (no matter what, their images will always be their own). One day, I was trying to talk with my new neighbor, who is from Mexico and speaks Spanish. All that kept coming out was Apache. It was inappropriate for talking with my neighbor; I could keep doing it, but she would keep not understanding me. The Apache was a funny little glitch with my mind, but it brings up a good point: Should one speak in a preferred language because "this is who they are" . . . or should they use another language because their goal is to communicate with someone else who is not privy to the "preferred language". I have heard Native people talk about "the different worlds". But there is also a "different worlds discourse" for Native people. There is little or no different worlds discourse for others, although for every first generation college student, there are certainly different worlds. For everyone who enters the white collar corporate world, or leaves it to enter the blue collar world, or to live life on the street as a homeless person, there are different worlds. I think perhaps people haven't talked about it because they don't realize how widespread it is. Certainly people have talked about the difficulty of getting an education for the 1st gen people, but not many have detailed "why", especially in terms of the language and culture and familial expectations. Where I live here in New Mexico, white people assume that a college education is a "good thing" because of the upward mobility that is entailed through the learning and graduation processes. The other people who live here assume that a college education is a "bad thing" because their children will move away and not be with the family. Some people get degrees and write about these perceptions, and then we know more. Mia -----Original Message----- From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of David Gene Lewis Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 9:00 AM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [ILAT] 'In', 'for', or 'with'? Klahowya all, Wow, this is turning into a great thread!, Anyway I wanted to ask another question. How many people have had the experience of culture shifting? I mean, I live in several worlds and at times can shift my thinking and language according to the circumstances. When in a Native context I know that my language and demeanor and thinking changes to fit the correct context. And when I am in the academic university context IO will change to fit that world including using a different language and demeanor. When I am with family, I feel also different, changing my thinking and language. So has anyone noticed this. Its rather odd but I think is part of what Native people do to operate in our world (s). David David Lewis University of Oregon Confederated Tribes of Grand Ronde From susan.penfield at GMAIL.COM Mon Jan 16 19:08:07 2006 From: susan.penfield at GMAIL.COM (Susan Penfield) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 12:08:07 -0700 Subject: 'In', 'for', or 'with'? In-Reply-To: <0BA7EE4D4646E0409D458D347C508B780184C75A@MAILSERV1.uni.glam.ac.uk> Message-ID: While I appreciate all of this discussion, I just want to clarify one thing related to the 'in', 'with' and 'for' concept -- When I said 'for' -- (and I add this so that there will be no more polysemy read into it) -- I was simply trying to say that linguists today (unlike the way I was trained many, many years ago) need to think of themselve as being in service to the community (therefore not only working 'with' but also working 'for' and toward community-based concerns -- as a priority ) --- I know -- there are still the academic responsibilities we all have to deal with -- but I really think the mind set -- for training those just going into the field -- is important to establish and consider. Which is not to say that there aren't many other considerations (i.e. as we see in Decolonizing Methodologies) as well. Best, Susan On 1/16/06, Cunliffe D J (Comp) wrote: > > Hi All, > > I think there is something in this conversation that strikes to the > heart of what we (or most of us I guess) are trying to achieve. > > Annie Ross wrote about the artificiality of borders between people and > that "...academic life likes to teach us academics that we > are somehow different (smarter, more this or that), but we are not. if > we > all knew that, there would be fewer problems. ... there is no 'insider' > ther is no 'outsider'. that is the big secret." > > While I am entirely happy to accept that academics aren't smarter etc, > (guess who spent 45 minutes walking around Bristol Airport car park in > the rain in the dark on Sunday night because he hadn't thought to make a > note of where he parked the car!) I really think that there are some > important issues around the insider / outsider boundary. If we fail to > recognise and manage these issues then at best our efforts will have no > effect, and at worse will cause damage. > > As an Englishman living and working in Wales and as a non-Welsh speaker > (practically) working with the Welsh language, I recognise that I am > 'outside' along several dimensions. Whilst I am happy to accept the > label "incomer", hopefully I have managed to avoid being branded as an > outright colonist. > > No matter how long I live in Wales, or how good my Welsh becomes (I > wish!) I cannot ever foresee a time in which I would actually BE Welsh - > either in my own mind or the minds of others. > > To my mind the best I can do is to recognise this and to try to identify > appropriate ways of managing it. > > Being a simple computer person, my preference is for simple practical > guidelines like those contained in (part of) Decolonizing Methodologies > rather than high brow discussions of the need to re-radicalise the > post-colonial agenda within the post-modern neo-liberal context (hmmm... > can't help feeling that I ought to have included feminism in there > somewhere...) > > Be seeing you, > > Daniel. > -- Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. Department of English Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program American Indian Language Development Institute Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US Mon Jan 16 20:14:30 2006 From: MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US (Mia Kalish) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 13:14:30 -0700 Subject: Test materials available on web In-Reply-To: <000c01c61aa9$fe429750$6501a8c0@LFPMia> Message-ID: Hi, Everyone, In response to some requests I have had from people to see the test materials I used in my thesis, I have posted them on my site on the Ethnotechnology/Research/Chiricahua Immersion Learning page (http://learningforpeople.us/Research.htm). The materials were designed for use on an onsite computer, and for immediate response to learners, so they are large and can't be sent easily via email. People can use the materials on the web, and see how I approached the question. There is also the paper for additional information. If anyone knows of a free or at-least-affordable download manager, I can put the source on my site for FTP download. Mia From coyotez at UOREGON.EDU Mon Jan 16 22:00:44 2006 From: coyotez at UOREGON.EDU (David Gene Lewis) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 14:00:44 -0800 Subject: 'In', 'for', or 'with'? In-Reply-To: <003101c61ac2$54a317b0$6501a8c0@LFPMia> Message-ID: Klahowya/hi all, I too wanted to mirror Mia's perception of the comments that Anne made. I don't think I can say or write it with the same degree of carefull understanding, but I didn't appreciate the apparent off-hand comment to "fuck labelers". you have no idea what I have gone through in my life to get to where I am, nor what my people have gone through to survive to this point. I seems like an awefully hostile comment for one who professes to love and have peace with people to make such a declaration. Perhaps you would do better to listen to people, and hear what they have to say, rather than striking out with such an insulting and assuming label yourself. david From djcunlif at GLAM.AC.UK Tue Jan 17 12:20:55 2006 From: djcunlif at GLAM.AC.UK (Cunliffe D J (Comp)) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 12:20:55 -0000 Subject: 'In', 'for', or 'with'? plus 'eh?' Message-ID: Hi All, Well this list certainly seems to be livening up! Susan Penfield wrote: "...linguists today (unlike the way I was trained many, many years ago) need to think of themselve as being in service to the community (therefore not only working 'with' but also working 'for' and toward community-based concerns -- as a priority )..." Which I think I would go along with, and which parallels many of the concerns within "culturally appropriate" computing at the moment. People are challenging previously well accepted notions of usability and particular development methods, recognising that these contain cultural bias. This is why I am interested in the cross-over of ideas and methods from other disciplines that have already had this revelation. As an aside, I was wondering whether there are tensions between prioritising the needs of the community versus prioritising the needs of the language? What is best for one is not necessarily best for the other. In response to Annie Ross' email, firstly I didn't particularly see it as an attack on me or my views as some have (but maybe I am just dull). "Love" might indeed be a radical concept in some contexts (perhaps in a society based on arranged marriages), but equally it can be reactionary, or even just total bollocks. (In case anyone thinks that 'bollocks' is an indecent word I refer you to the Sex Pistols court case: http://www.acc.umu.se/~samhain/summerofhate/courtcase.html) When I spoke of the need to "...re-radicalise the post-colonial agenda within the post-modern neo-liberal context..." is was intended to be a humorous example of the sort of thing that people like myself, who do not have a grounding in these concepts, find difficult to put into practice. It wasn't meant to make any sense - if it did it was by accident rather than by design (a little knowledge is a dangerous thing!). Of course "fuck" is just a good old-fashioned Anglo-Saxon way of saying "make love to", and I think suggesting that we make love to the labellers is a charming suggestion. Of course humour is one of those very difficult areas with regard to cultural differences - feel free to inset smileys in any of the above wherever makes you most happy. Be seeing you, Daniel. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrekar at NCIDC.ORG Tue Jan 17 20:05:57 2006 From: andrekar at NCIDC.ORG (Andre Cramblit) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 12:05:57 -0800 Subject: Call for LOVE LETTERS (Fictitious or Real) Message-ID: I have got something for you: Call for LOVE LETTERS (Fictitious or Real) Artist Betty Bastai invites members of the public to write a love letter of any length by hand. You may write it in your mother language if different from English and send it as soon as possible to the artist's address: Betty Bastai 811 SE Pasek Street Oak Harbor WA 98277-5427 The received letters will be then torn into pieces and exhibited on a section of the floor of the Viking Union Gallery, Western Washington University, Bellingham, as a part of the drawing installation Naked Voyage scheduled to be on display from February 20 until March 17, 2006 contact info: (360) 675-7746 or bettybastai at hotmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From djcunlif at GLAM.AC.UK Thu Jan 19 10:21:39 2006 From: djcunlif at GLAM.AC.UK (Cunliffe D J (Comp)) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 10:21:39 -0000 Subject: ToC - Minority Languages, Multimedia and the Web Message-ID: Minority Languages, Multimedia and the Web Special Issue of the New Review of Hypermedia and Multimedia Volume 11, Number 2 / December 2005 Guest-edited by Daniel Cunliffe and Susan Herring Abstracts available freely online: http://www.journalsonline.tandf.co.uk/link.asp?id=j61m14138672 Introduction available freely online: http://www.journalsonline.tandf.co.uk/link.asp?id=j433r01605759l51 Contents Introduction to Minority Languages, Multimedia and the Web pp. 131 - 137 Daniel Cunliffe and Susan C. Herring http://www.journalsonline.tandf.co.uk/link.asp?id=j433r01605759l51 Digital libraries and minority languages pp. 139 - 155 David M. Nichols, Ian H. Witten, Te Taka Keegan, David Bainbridge, Michael Dewsnip Promoting minority-language use in a bilingual online community pp. 157 - 179 D. Cunliffe and R. Harries Immersion multimedia for adult Chiricahua language learners pp. 181 - 203 M. Kalish Resistance to globalization: Language and Internet diffusion patterns in Uzbekistan pp. 205 - 220 Carolyn Y. Wei and Beth E. Kolko Language-sensitive search behaviour and the role of domain knowledge pp. 221 - 246 A. Kralisch and B. Berendt Review of script displays of African languages by current software pp. 247 - 255 Quintin Gee Regards, Daniel Cunliffe -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From delancey at UOREGON.EDU Thu Jan 19 16:16:18 2006 From: delancey at UOREGON.EDU (Scott DeLancey) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 08:16:18 -0800 Subject: Recognition of community efforts In-Reply-To: <39a679e20601161108y1eebf42em5204c6f10d5279de@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: >From the latest SSILA Bulletin: (SSILA = Society for the Study of the Indigenous Languages of the Americas, an organization of linguists) ======================================================= * Lakota Consortium awarded Ken Hale Prize ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ SSILA's Ken Hale Prize, which honors those who strive to link the academic and community spheres in the spirit of Ken Hale, was awarded this year to the non-profit Lakota Language Consortium (LLC), a nonprofit organization dedicated to rescuing the Lakota Sioux language. The prize and cash award were presented in recognition of the organization's outstanding community language work and deep commitment to the documentation, maintenance, promotion, and revitalization of the Lakota language, one of the country's largest remaining Native American languages. Pam Bunte, chair of the 2005 Ken Hale Prize selection committee, described the factors that led to the decision. "We were really impressed. The Lakota Language Consortium has done a great job with their documentation. Their materials have made it easier for community members to teach the language. They work closely with many people throughout the community and the praise of their efforts was truly amazing." The committee also included Nora England, Michael Krauss, and Roberto Zavala Maldonado. Wilhelm K. Meya, Executive Director of the organization, received the prize on behalf of the Board of Directors. The Lakota Language Consortium is made up of numerous committed community members and linguists (see the LLC website, http://www.lakhota.org). As one of the largest language revitalization organizations in the country, its materials are used by over twenty-two school systems and expose over 4000 children to the Lakota language. In addition to Meya, the LLC's Board of Directors includes Jan Ulrich, who leads the organization's materials development work, and Leonard Little Finger, who directs the Lakota Language Studies program at Loneman School in Oglala, South Dakota. From susan.penfield at GMAIL.COM Thu Jan 19 16:20:54 2006 From: susan.penfield at GMAIL.COM (Susan Penfield) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 09:20:54 -0700 Subject: Recognition of community efforts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This is certainly a well deserved prize! The materials being produced are not only supportive of language revitalization, community-based, and widely implemented, -- they are also beautifully and creatively done... Congratualtions to all involved! Susan On 1/19/06, Scott DeLancey wrote: > > From the latest SSILA Bulletin: > (SSILA = Society for the Study of the Indigenous Languages of the > Americas, an organization of linguists) > ======================================================= > > * Lakota Consortium awarded Ken Hale Prize > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > SSILA's Ken Hale Prize, which honors those who strive to link the academic > and community spheres in the spirit of Ken Hale, was awarded this year to > the non-profit Lakota Language Consortium (LLC), a nonprofit organization > dedicated to rescuing the Lakota Sioux language. The prize and cash award > were presented in recognition of the organization's outstanding community > language work and deep commitment to the documentation, maintenance, > promotion, and revitalization of the Lakota language, one of the country's > largest remaining Native American languages. > > Pam Bunte, chair of the 2005 Ken Hale Prize selection committee, described > the factors that led to the decision. "We were really impressed. The > Lakota Language Consortium has done a great job with their documentation. > Their materials have made it easier for community members to teach the > language. They work closely with many people throughout the community and > the praise of their efforts was truly amazing." The committee also > included Nora England, Michael Krauss, and Roberto Zavala Maldonado. > > Wilhelm K. Meya, Executive Director of the organization, received the > prize on behalf of the Board of Directors. The Lakota Language Consortium > is made up of numerous committed community members and linguists (see > the LLC website, http://www.lakhota.org). As one of the largest language > revitalization organizations in the country, its materials are used by > over twenty-two school systems and expose over 4000 children to the Lakota > language. In addition to Meya, the LLC's Board of Directors includes > Jan Ulrich, who leads the organization's materials development work, and > Leonard Little Finger, who directs the Lakota Language Studies program at > Loneman School in Oglala, South Dakota. > -- Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. Department of English Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program American Indian Language Development Institute Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US Thu Jan 19 16:46:42 2006 From: MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US (Mia Kalish) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 09:46:42 -0700 Subject: Recognition of community efforts In-Reply-To: <39a679e20601190820q205a7f0fmdd64b59f7262d5f6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I went to this page: http://www.lakhota.org/ALPHABET/alphabet.htm The graphics are gorgeous. But I do WISH people would STOP doing things like, "h, like the x in Mexican". What if you don't know Mexican Spanish, or Northern French? People used to do this all the time in linguistic materials as if people could just pull the sounds of Russian, French, Italian, Norwegian, etc., etc., etc., etc., out of their head and figure out how the language sounded. Also, the way the little letters come together in the words, the sound patterns change. The letter doesn't always sound "like X in Y-language". It sounds how it sounds with the rhythms of what came before and what's coming after. (Tidbits from Cognitive Psychology and Cognitive Linguistics). This is one of my soapboxy items! Mia _____ From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Susan Penfield Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 9:21 AM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [ILAT] Recognition of community efforts This is certainly a well deserved prize! The materials being produced are not only supportive of language revitalization, community-based, and widely implemented, -- they are also beautifully and creatively done... Congratualtions to all involved! Susan On 1/19/06, Scott DeLancey wrote: >From the latest SSILA Bulletin: (SSILA = Society for the Study of the Indigenous Languages of the Americas, an organization of linguists) ======================================================= * Lakota Consortium awarded Ken Hale Prize ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ SSILA's Ken Hale Prize, which honors those who strive to link the academic and community spheres in the spirit of Ken Hale, was awarded this year to the non-profit Lakota Language Consortium (LLC), a nonprofit organization dedicated to rescuing the Lakota Sioux language. The prize and cash award were presented in recognition of the organization's outstanding community language work and deep commitment to the documentation, maintenance, promotion, and revitalization of the Lakota language, one of the country's largest remaining Native American languages. Pam Bunte, chair of the 2005 Ken Hale Prize selection committee, described the factors that led to the decision. "We were really impressed. The Lakota Language Consortium has done a great job with their documentation. Their materials have made it easier for community members to teach the language. They work closely with many people throughout the community and the praise of their efforts was truly amazing." The committee also included Nora England, Michael Krauss, and Roberto Zavala Maldonado. Wilhelm K. Meya, Executive Director of the organization, received the prize on behalf of the Board of Directors. The Lakota Language Consortium is made up of numerous committed community members and linguists (see the LLC website, http://www.lakhota.org) . As one of the largest language revitalization organizations in the country, its materials are used by over twenty-two school systems and expose over 4000 children to the Lakota language. In addition to Meya, the LLC's Board of Directors includes Jan Ulrich, who leads the organization's materials development work, and Leonard Little Finger, who directs the Lakota Language Studies program at Loneman School in Oglala, South Dakota. -- Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. Department of English Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program American Indian Language Development Institute Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrekar at NCIDC.ORG Mon Jan 23 19:00:36 2006 From: andrekar at NCIDC.ORG (Andre Cramblit) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 11:00:36 -0800 Subject: Native Language Preservation and Maintenance Message-ID: Department of Health & Human Services Administration for Children and Families Program Office: Administration for Native Americans Funding Opportunity Title: Native Language Preservation and Maintenance Announcement Type: Initial Funding Opportunity Number: HHS-2006-ACF-ANA-NL-0016 CFDA Number: 93.587 Due Date for Applications: 03/08/2006 Executive Summary: The Administration for Native Americans (ANA), within the Administration for Children and Families (ACF), announces the availability of Fiscal Year (FY) 2006 funds for new community-based activities under ANA's Native Language program. Financial assistance is provided utilizing a competitive process in accordance with the Native American Programs Act of 1974, as amended. ANA provides financial assistance to eligible applicants for the purpose of assisting Native Americans in assuring the survival and continuing vitality of their languages. Grants are provided under the following two categories: Category I-Assessment Grants are used to conduct the assessment needed to identify the current status of the Native American language(s) to be addressed and to establish community long- range language goals; and Category II-Design and/or Implementation Grants are to design and/or implement a preservation language project that will contribute to the achievement of the community's long-range language goal(s). I. FUNDING OPPORTUNITY DESCRIPTION Legislative Authority Native American Programs Act, 42 U.S.C. 2991 et seq. In 1992, Congressional testimony provided estimates that of the several hundred languages that once existed, only about 150 are still spoken or remembered today. Furthermore, only 20 are spoken by persons of all ages, 30 by adults of all ages, about 60 by middle- aged adults, and 45 by the most elderly. In response to this testimony, the Congress passed the Native American Languages Act of 1992 (the Act), Public Law (P.L.) 102-524, to assist Native Americans in assuring the survival and continuing vitality of their languages. Passage of the Act was an important step in an attempt to ensure the survival and continuation of Native languages. It provided the foundation upon which Tribal nations can rebuild their economic strength and enhance their rich cultural diversity. The Federal government recognizes the substantial loss of Native American languages over the past several hundred years, and acknowledges the nature and magnitude of the status of Native American languages will be better defined when eligible applicants under the Act have completed language assessments. The Administration for Native Americans (ANA) believes that the responsibility for achieving self-sufficiency rests with the governing bodies of Indian Tribes, Alaska Native Villages, and in the leadership of Native American groups. This belief supports the ANA principle that the local community and its leadership are responsible for determining goals, setting priorities, and planning and implementing programs that support the community's long-range goals. Therefore, since preserving a language and ensuring its continuation is generally one of the first steps taken toward strengthening a group's identity; activities proposed under this program announcement will contribute to the social development of Native communities and significantly contribute to their efforts toward self-sufficiency. The Administration for Native Americans recognizes that eligible applicants must have the opportunity to develop their own language plans, improve technical capabilities, and have access to the necessary financial and technical resources in order to assess, plan, develop and implement programs to assure the survival and continuing vitality of their languages. ANA also recognizes that potential applicants may have specialized knowledge and capabilities to address specific language concerns at various levels. This program announcement reflects these special needs and circumstances. In response to this announcement, ANA encourages Native American Tribes and organizational leaders to propose, coordinate and implement community-based projects to meet the needs of its community members and develop options and opportunities for future generations. This program announcement will emphasize community-based, locally designed projects. This emphasis will increase the number of grants to local community organizations and expand the number of partnerships among locally based non-profit organizations. ANA will accept applications from multiple organizations in the same geographic area. Although Tribes are limited to three simultaneous ANA grants (one each under Social and Economic Development Strategies (SEDS), Native Language and Environmental programs) at any one time, this clarification allows other community-based organizations to apply for ANA funding, provided the objectives and activities do not duplicate currently funded projects serving the same geographic area. ANA Program Announcements are goal-category specific. ANA will release separate program announcements for funding opportunities under SEDS, Native Language Preservation and Maintenance, Environmental Regulatory Enhancement, and for special initiatives. The ANA Native Language Program Areas of Interest are projects that ANA considers supportive to Native American communities. Although eligibility for funding is not restricted to projects of the type listed in this program announcement, these Areas of Interest are ones which ANA sees as particularly beneficial to the development of healthy Native American communities. ANA Administrative Policies: Applicants must comply with the following ANA Administrative Policies: An applicant must provide a 20 percent non-Federal match of the approved project costs. Applications originating from American Samoa, Guam, or the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands are covered under section 501(d) of Public Law 95-134, as amended (48 U.S.C. 1469a), under which the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) waives any requirement for matching funds under $200,000 (including in-kind contributions). An application from a Tribe, Alaska Native Village or Native American organization must be from the governing body. A non-profit organization submitting an application must submit proof of its non-profit status at the time of submission. The non-profit organization can accomplish this by providing one of the following verifiable documents: (1) a reference to the applicant organization's listing in the Internal Revenue Service's (IRS) most recent list of tax-exempt organizations described in the IRS Code; (2) a copy of the currently valid IRS tax exemption certificate; (3) a statement from a State taxing body, State Attorney General, or other appropriate State official certifying that the applicant organization has a non-profit status and none of the net earnings accrue to any private shareholders or individuals; (4) a certified copy of the organization's certificate of incorporation or similar document that clearly establishes non-profit status; or (5) any of the items in the subparagraphs immediately above for a State or national parent organization and a statement signed by the parent organization that the applicant organization is a local non-profit affiliate. Organizations incorporating in American Samoa are cautioned that the Samoan government relies exclusively upon IRS determination of non- profit status; therefore, articles of incorporation approved by the Samoan government do not establish non-profit status for the purpose of ANA eligibility. If the applicant, other than a Tribe or an Alaska Native Village government, is proposing a project benefiting Native Americans, Alaska Natives, or both, it must provide assurance that its duly elected or appointed board of directors is representative of the community to be served. An applicant's governing board will be considered representative of the community to be served if the applicant demonstrates that at least a majority of the board individuals fall into one or more of the following categories: (1) a current or past member of the community to be served; (2) a prospective participant or beneficiary of the project to be funded; (3) have experience working with the community to be served by the project; or (4) have a cultural relationship with the community to be served. Applicants must describe how the proposed project objectives and activities relate to a locally determined strategy. ANA will review proposed projects to ensure applicants have considered all resources available to the community to support the project. Proposed projects must present a strategy to overcome the challenges that hinder movement toward self-sufficiency in the community. All funded applications will be reviewed to ensure that the applicant has provided a positive statement to give credit to ANA on all materials developed using ANA funds. ANA will not accept applications from Tribal components that are Tribally authorized divisions unless the ANA application includes a Tribal resolution. ANA will only accept one application per eligible entity. The first application received by ANA shall be the application considered for competition unless ANA is notified in writing which application should be considered for competitive review. An applicant can have only one active ANA Native Language grant operating at any given time. ANA funds short-term projects, not programs. Projects must have definitive goals and objectives that will be achieved by the end of the project period. All projects funded by ANA must be completed, self-sustaining, or supported by other than ANA funding at the end of the project period. Prior to funding the second or third year of a multi-year grant, ANA will require verification and support documentation from the grantee that objectives and outcomes proposed in the preceding year were accomplished, and the non-Federal share requirement has been met. ANA reviews the quarterly and annual reports of grantees to determine if the grantee is meeting its goals, objectives and activities identified in the Objective Work Plan. Applications from National and Regional organizations must clearly demonstrate a need for the project; explain how the project originated; and discuss the community-based delivery strategy of the project; identify and describe the intended beneficiaries; describe and relate the actual project benefits to the community and organization; and describe a community-based delivery system. National and Regional organizations must describe their membership, define how the organization operates, and demonstrate Native community and/or Tribal government support for the project. The type of community to be served will determine the type of documentation necessary to support the project. ANA Definitions: Program specific terms and concepts are defined and should be used as a guide in writing and submitting the proposed project. The funding for allowable projects in this program announcement are based on the following definitions: Authorized Representative: The person or person(s) authorized by Tribal or Organizational resolution to execute documents and other actions required by outside agencies. Budget Period: The interval of time into which the project period is divided for budgetary or funding purposes, and for which a grant is made. A budget period usually lasts one year in a multi-year project period. Community: A group of people residing in the same geographic area that can apply their own cultural and socio-economic values in implementing ANA's program objectives and goals. In discussing the applicant's community, the following information should be provided: (1) a description of the population segment within the community to be served or impacted; (2) the size of the community; (3) geographic description or location, including the boundaries of the community; (4) demographic data on the target population; and (5) the relationship of the community to any larger group or Tribe. Community Involvement: How the community participated in the development of the proposed project, how the community will be involved during the project implementation and after the project is completed. Evidence of community involvement can include, but is not limited to, certified petitions, public meeting minutes, surveys, needs assessments, newsletters, special meetings, public council meetings, public committee meetings, public hearings, and annual meetings with representatives from the community. Completed Project: A project funded by ANA is finished, self- sustaining, or funded by other than ANA funds, and the results and outcomes are achieved by the end of the project period. Consortium - Tribe / Village: A group of Tribes or Villages that join together either for long-term purposes or for the purpose of an ANA project. Construction: The initial building of a facility. Core Administration: Salaries and other expenses for those functions that support the applicant's organization as a whole or for purposes that are unrelated to the actual management or implementation of the ANA project. Equipment: Tangible, non-expendable personal property, including exempt property, charged directly to the award having a useful life of more than one year and an acquisition cost of $5,000 or more per unit. However, consistent with recipient policy, lower limits may be established. Impact Indicators: Measurement descriptions used to identify the outcomes or results of the project. Outcomes or results must be quantifiable, measurable, verifiable and related to the outcome of the project to determine that the project has achieved its desired objective and can be independently verified through ANA monitoring and evaluation. In-kind Contributions: In-kind contributions are the value of goods and/or services third parities donate for program or project purposes without charge to a recipient (or sub-recipient or cost-type contractor under a grant). Any proposed in-kind match must meet the applicable requirements found in 45 CFR Part 74 and Part 92. Letter of Commitment: A third-party statement to document the intent to provide specific in-kind contributions or cash to support the applicant. The Letter of Commitment must state the dollar amount (if applicable), the length of time the commitment will be honored, and the conditions under which the organization will support the proposed ANA project. If a dollar amount is included, the amount must be based on market and historical rates charged and paid. The resources to be committed may be human, natural, physical, or financial, and may include other Federal and non-Federal resources. Statements about resources which have been committed to support a proposed project made in the application without supporting documentation will be disregarded. Leveraged Resources: The total dollar value of all non-ANA resources that are committed to a proposed ANA project and are supported by documentation that exceed the 20 percent non-Federal match required for an ANA grant. Such resources may include any natural, financial, and physical resources available within the Tribe, organization, or community to assist in the successful completion of the project. An example would be a letter from an organization that agrees to provide a supportive action, product, and service, human or financial contribution that will add to the potential success of the project. Minor Renovation or Alteration: Work required to change the interior arrangements or other physical characteristics of an existing facility, or install equipment so that it may be more effectively used for the project. Minor alteration and renovation may include work referred to as improvements, conversion, rehabilitation, remodeling, or modernization, but is distinguished from construction and major renovations. A minor alteration and or renovation must be incidental and essential for the project ("incidental" meaning the total alteration and renovation budget must not exceed the lesser of $150,000 or 25 percent of total direct costs approved for the entire project period). Multi-purpose Organization: A community-based corporation whose charter specifies that the community designates the Board of Directors and/or officers of the organization through an elective procedure and that the organization functions in several different areas of concern to the members of the local Native American community. These areas are specified in the by-laws and/or policies adopted by the organization. They may include, but need not be limited to, economic, artistic, cultural, and recreational activities, and the delivery of human services such as day care, education, and training. Multi-year Project: Encompasses a single theme and requires more than 12 months and up to 24 or 36 months to complete. A multi-year project affords the applicant an opportunity to develop and address more complex and in-depth strategies that cannot be completed in one year. A multi-year project is a series of related objectives with activities presented in chronological order over a two or three-year period. Objective(s): Specific outcomes or results to be achieved within the proposed project period that are specified in the OWP. Completion of objectives must result in specific, measurable outcomes that would benefit the community and directly contribute to the achievement of the stated community goals. Applicants should relate their proposed project objectives to outcomes that support the community's long- range goals. Objectives are an important component of Criterion Three and are the foundation for the OWPs. Objective Work Plan (OWP): The project plan the applicant will use in meeting the results and benefits expected for the project. The results and benefits are directly related to the Impact Indicators. The OWP provides detailed descriptions of how, when, where, by whom and why activities are proposed for the project and is complemented and condensed in the OWP. ANA will require separate OWPs for each year of the project (OMB# 0980-0204, exp. 10/31/06). Partnerships: Agreements between two or more parties that will support the development and implementation of the proposed project. Partnerships include other faith-based or community-based organizations or associations, Tribes, Federal and State agencies and private or non-profit organizations, which may include faith-based organizations. Real Property: Land, including land improvements, structures, and appurtenances thereto, excluding movable machinery and equipment. Resolution: Applicants are required to include a current signed and dated Resolution (a formal decision voted on by the official governing body) in support of the project for the entire project period. The Resolution should indicate who is authorized to sign documents and negotiate on behalf of the Tribe or organization. The Resolution should indicate that the community was involved in the project planning process, and indicate the specific dollar amount of any non-Federal matching funds (if applicable). Sustainable Project: A sustainable project is an ongoing program or service that can be maintained without additional ANA funds. Self-Sufficiency: The ability to generate resources to meet a community's needs in a sustainable manner. A community's progress toward self-sufficiency is based on its efforts to plan, organize, and direct resources in a comprehensive manner that is consistent with its established long-range goals. For a community to be self- sufficient, it must have local access to, control of, and coordination of services and programs that safeguard the health, well- being, and culture of the people that reside and work in the community. Total Approved Project Costs: The sum of the Federal request and the non-Federal share. Please note that this announcement is divided into two program areas. The first program area is: Category I - Assessment Grant and the second program area is: Category II - Design and/or Implementation Grants. Information on the second program area immediately follows Section VIII of program area one. The Standard Form (SF) 424 must clearly indicate the correct program area you are applying for. Priority Area 1: Native Language Preservation and Maintenance: Category I - Assessment Grant Description The purpose of an Assessment Grant is to conduct an assessment and to develop the plan needed to describe the current status of the language (s) to be addressed and to establish community long-range goal(s) to ensure its survival. Program Area of Interest: Data collection, compilation, organization and description of current language status through a "formal" method (e.g., work performed by a linguist, and/or a language survey conducted by community members) or an "informal" method (e.g., a community consensus of the language status based on elders, Tribal scholars, and/or other community members). II. AWARD INFORMATION Funding Instrument Type: Grant Anticipated Total Priority Area Funding: $500,000 Anticipated Number of Awards: 5 to 10 Ceiling on Amount of Individual Awards: $100,000 per project period Floor on Amount of Individual Awards: $50,000 per project period Average Projected Award Amount: $75,000 per project period Length of Project Periods: 12-month project and budget period Awards under this announcement are subject to the availability of funds. III. ELIGIBILITY INFORMATION 1. Eligible Applicants: Federally recognized Indian Tribes; Consortia of Indian Tribes; Incorporated non-Federally recognized Tribes; Incorporated non-profit multi-purpose community-based Indian organizations; Urban Indian Centers; National or regional incorporated non-profit Native American organizations with Native American community-specific objectives; Alaska Native Villages, as defined in the Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act and/or non-profit Village consortia; Incorporated non-profit Alaska Native multi-purpose community-based organizations; Non-profit Alaska Native Regional Corporations/Associations in Alaska with Village-specific projects; Non-profit Native organizations in Alaska with Village-specific projects; Public and non-profit private agencies serving Native Hawaiians; Public and non-profit private agencies serving Native peoples from Guam, American Samoa, or the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands (the populations served may be located on these islands or in the United States); Tribally controlled Community Colleges, Tribally controlled Post- Secondary Vocational Institutions, and colleges and universities located in Hawaii, Guam, American Samoa or the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands, which serve Native American Pacific Islanders; and Non-profit Alaska Native community entities or Tribal governing bodies (Indian Reorganization Act or Traditional Councils) as recognized by the Bureau of Indian Affairs. Faith-based and community organizations that meet the statutory eligibility requirements are eligible to apply under this announcement. Please see Section IV for required documentation supporting eligibility or funding restrictions if any are applicable. 2. Cost Sharing or Matching: Yes Grantees are required to meet a non-Federal share of the project costs, in accordance with 42 U.S.C. 2991 b-3 (e) (1). Grantees must provide at least20 percent of the total approved cost of the project. The total approved cost of the project is the sum of the ACF share and the non-Federal share. The non-Federal share may be met by cash or in-kind contributions, although applicants are encouraged to meet their match requirements through cash contributions. For example, in order to meet the match requirements, a project with a total approved project cost of $125,000, requesting $100,000 in ACF funds, must provide a non-Federal share of at least $25,000 (20 percent of total approved project cost of $125,000.) Grantees will be held accountable for commitments of non-Federal resources even if they exceed the amount of the required match. Failure to provide the required amount will result in the disallowance of Federal funds. A lack of supporting documentation at the time of application will not exclude the application from competitive review. The non-Federal match will be evaluated according to the "Non-Federal Resources" evaluation criterion found in Section V of this announcement. 3. Other: D-U-N-S Requirement All applicants must have a D&B Data Universal Numbering System (D-U-N- S) number. On June 27, 2003, the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) published in the Federal Register a new Federal policy applicable to all Federal grant applicants. The policy requires Federal grant applicants to provide a D-U-N-S number when applying for Federal grants or cooperative agreements on or after October 1, 2003. The D-U-N-S number will be required whether an applicant is submitting a paper application or using the government-wide electronic portal, Grants.gov. A D-U-N-S number will be required for every application for a new award or renewal/continuation of an award, including applications or plans under formula, entitlement, and block grant programs, submitted on or after October 1, 2003. Please ensure that your organization has a D-U-N-S number. You may acquire a D-U-N-S number at no cost by calling the dedicated toll- free D-U-N-S number request line at 1-866-705-5711 or you may request a number on-line at http://www.dnb.com. Proof of Non-Profit Status Non-profit organizations applying for funding are required to submit proof of their non-profit status. Proof of non-profit status is any one of the following: A reference to the applicant organization's listing in the IRS's most recent list of tax-exempt organizations described in the IRS Code. A copy of a currently valid IRS tax-exemption certificate. A statement from a State taxing body, State attorney general, or other appropriate State official certifying that the applicant organization has non-profit status and that none of the net earnings accrue to any private shareholders or individuals. A certified copy of the organization's certificate of incorporation or similar document that clearly establishes non-profit status. Any of the items in the subparagraphs immediately above for a State or national parent organization and a statement signed by the parent organization that the applicant organization is a local non-profit affiliate. When applying electronically, we strongly suggest that you attach your proof of non-profit status with your electronic application. Private, non-profit organizations are encouraged to submit with their applications the survey located under Grant Related Documents and Forms: Survey for Private, Non-Profit Grant Applicants, titled, Survey on Ensuring Equal Opportunity for Applicants, at: http:// www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/ofs/forms.htm. Disqualification Factors Applications that exceed the ceiling amount will be deemed non- responsive and will not be considered for funding under this announcement. Any application that fails to satisfy the deadline requirements referenced in Section IV.3 will be deemed non-responsive and will not be considered for funding under this announcement. Applications that do not include a current signed and dated Resolution (a formal decision voted on by the official governing body) in support of the project for the entire project period will be considered non-responsive and will not be considered for competition. If the applicant is not a Tribe or Alaska Native Village government, applications that do not include proof that a majority of the governing board individuals are representative of the community to be served will be considered non-responsive and will not be considered for competition. IV. APPLICATION AND SUBMISSION INFORMATION 1. Address to Request Application Package: Region I East - Native American Management Services, Inc (http:// www.anaeastern.org) Region II West - ACKCO (http://www.anawestern.org) Region III Alaska - Native American Management Services, Inc. (http:// www.anaalaska.org) Region IV Pacific - Council for Native Hawaiian Advancement (http:// www.anapacific.org) Phone: 877-922-9262 Email: ana at acf.hhs.gov URL: http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/ana 2. Content and Form of Application Submission: Please refer to Section I, Funding Opportunity Description to review general ANA Administrative Policies and in Section IV for Funding Restrictions. Application Submission: A complete application for assistance under this program announcement consists of three parts. Part One includes the SF-424, required government forms, and other required documents. Part Two of the application is the project narrative. This Part of the application may not exceed 40 pages. The budget and budget justification are exempt from the page limit. Part Three of the application is the Appendix. This section of the application may not exceed 20 pages (the exception to this 20-page limit applies only to projects that require, if relevant to the project, a Business Plan or any Third-Party Agreements). Organization and Preparation of Application: Due to the intensity and pace of the application review and evaluation process, ANA strongly recommends applicants organize, label, and insert required information in accordance with Part One, Part Two and Part Three as presented in the table below. The application begins with the information requested in Part One of the table below. Part Two is the project narrative and includes the ANA evaluation review criteria. The six ANA review criteria should be presented in the following order: Criteria One - Introduction and Project Summary; Criteria Two - Need for Assistance; Criteria Three - Project Approach; Criteria Four - Organizational Capacity; Criteria Five - Project Impact/ Evaluation; and Criteria Six- Budget and Budget Justification/Cost Effectiveness. Part Three is the Appendix. This Part includes only supplemental information or required support documentation that addresses the applicant's capacity to carry out and fulfill the proposed project. These items may include: letters of commitment, letters of agreement with partners or cooperating entities, and position descriptions. Utilizing this format will insure all information submitted to support an applicant's request for funding is thoroughly reviewed and will assist the panel reviewer in locating and evaluating the requested information. ANA Application Format: Applications should be labeled in compliance with the format provided in the program announcement. The paper size shall be 8.5 x 11 inches, line spacing shall be a space and a half (1.5 line spacing), printed only on one side, and have no less than a half-inch margin on all sides of the paper. The font size shall be 12- point and the font type shall be Times New Roman. These requirements only apply to the project narrative in Part Two. Forms and Certifications The project description should include all the information requirements described in the specific evaluation criteria outlined in this program announcement under Section V. Application Review Information. In addition to the project description, the applicant needs to complete all of the Standard Forms required as part of the application process for awards under this announcement. Applicants seeking financial assistance under this announcement must file the appropriate Standard Forms as described in this section. All applicants must submit SF-424, Application for Federal Assistance. For non-construction programs, applicants must also submit SF-424A, Budget Information and SF-424B, Assurances. For construction programs, applicants must also submit SF-424C, Budget Information and SF-424D, Assurances. The forms may be reproduced for use in submitting applications. Applicants must sign and return the standard forms with their application. Applicants must furnish prior to award an executed copy of the SF- LLL, Certification Regarding Lobbying, when applying for an award in excess of $100,000. Applicants who have used non-Federal funds for lobbying activities in connection with receiving assistance under this announcement shall complete a disclosure form, if applicable, with their application. Applicants must sign and return the certification with their application. Applicants must also understand that they will be held accountable for the smoking prohibition included within Public Law (P.L.) 103-227, Title XII Environmental Tobacco Smoke (also known as the PRO- KIDS Act of 1994). A copy of the Federal Register notice that implements the smoking prohibition is included with this form. By signing and submitting the application, applicants are providing the necessary certification and are not required to return it. Applicants must make the appropriate certification of their compliance with all Federal statutes relating to nondiscrimination. By signing and submitting the application, applicants are providing the necessary certification and are not required to return it. Complete the standard forms and the associated certifications and assurances based on the instructions on the forms. The forms and certifications may be found at: http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/ofs/ forms.htm. Applicants must understand that they will be held accountable for the Maintenance of Effort Certification. By signing and submitting the application, applicants are providing the necessary certification and acknowledge that a signed form will be required prior to award. Private, non-profit organizations are encouraged to submit with their applications the survey located under Grant Related Documents and Forms: Survey for Private, Non-Profit Grant Applicants, titled, Survey on Ensuring Equal Opportunity for Applicants, at: http:// www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/ofs/forms.htm. Those organizations required to provide proof of non-profit status, please refer to Section III.3. Please see Section V.1 for instructions on preparing the full project description. Please reference Section IV.3 for details about acknowledgement of received applications. Electronic Submission You may submit your application to us in either electronic or paper format. To submit an application electronically, please use the http://www.Grants.gov site. If you use Grants.gov, you will be able to download a copy of the application package, complete it off-line, and then upload and submit the application via the Grants.gov site. ACF will not accept grant applications via facsimile or email. IMPORTANT NOTE: Before you submit an electronic application, you must complete the organization registration process as well as obtain and register "electronic signature credentials" for the Authorized Organization Representative (AOR). Since this process may take more than five business days, it is important to start this process early, well in advance of the application deadline. Be sure to complete all Grants.gov registration processes listed on the Organization Registration Checklist, which can be found at http://www.acf.hhs.gov/ grants/registration_checklist.html. Please note the following if you plan to submit your application electronically via Grants.gov: Electronic submission is voluntary, but strongly encouraged. You may access the electronic application for this program at http:// www.Grants.gov. There you can search for the downloadable application package by utilizing the Grants.gov FIND function. We strongly recommend that you do not wait until the application deadline date to begin the application process through Grants.gov. We encourage applicants that submit electronically to submit well before the closing date and time so that if difficulties are encountered an applicant can still submit a hard copy via express mail. To use Grants.gov, you, as the applicant, must have a D-U-N-S number and register in the Central Contractor Registry (CCR). You should allow a minimum of five days to complete the CCR registration. REMINDER: CCR registration expires each year and thus must be updated annually. You cannot upload an application to Grants.gov without having a current CCR registration AND electronic signature credentials for the AOR. The electronic application is submitted by the AOR. To submit electronically, the AOR must obtain and register electronic signature credentials approved by the organization's E-Business Point of Contact who maintains the organization's CCR registration. You may submit all documents electronically, including all information typically included on the SF-424 and all necessary assurances and certifications. Your application must comply with any page limitation requirements described in this program announcement. After you electronically submit your application, you will receive an automatic acknowledgement from Grants.gov that contains a Grants.gov tracking number. ACF will retrieve your application from Grants.gov. ACF may request that you provide original signatures on forms at a later date. You will not receive additional point value because you submit a grant application in electronic format, nor will we penalize you if you submit an application in hard copy. If you encounter difficulties in using Grants.gov, please contact the Grants.gov Help Desk at: 1-800-518-4726, or by email at support at grants.gov to report the problem and obtain assistance. Checklists and registration brochures are maintained at http:// www.grants.gov/GetStarted to assist you in the registration process. When submitting electronically via Grants.gov, applicants must comply with all due dates AND times referenced in Section IV.3. Hard Copy Submission Applicants that are submitting their application in paper format should submit one original and two copies of the complete application. The original and each of the two copies must include all required forms, certifications, assurances, and appendices, be signed by an authorized representative, have original signatures, and be unbound. Non-Federal Reviewers Since ACF will be using non-Federal reviewers in the review process, applicants have the option of omitting from the application copies (not the original) specific salary rates or amounts for individuals specified in the application budget as well as Social Security Numbers, if otherwise required for individuals. The copies may include summary salary information. If applicants are submitting their application electronically, ACF will omit the same specific salary rate information from copies made for use during the review and selection process. 3. Submission Dates and Times: Due Date for Applications: 03/08/2006 Explanation of Due Dates The due date for receipt of applications is referenced above. Applications received after 4:30 p.m., eastern time, on the due date will be classified as late and will not be considered in the current competition. Applicants are responsible for ensuring that applications are mailed or hand-delivered or submitted electronically well in advance of the application due date and time. Mail Applications that are submitted by mail must be received no later than 4:30 p.m., eastern time, on the due date referenced above at the address listed in Section IV.6. Hand Delivery Applications hand carried by applicants, applicant couriers, other representatives of the applicant, or by overnight/express mail couriers must be received on or before the due date referenced above, between the hours of 8:00 a.m. and 4:30 p.m., eastern time, at the address referenced in Section IV.6., between Monday and Friday (excluding Federal holidays). Electronic Submission Applications submitted electronically via Grants.gov must be submitted no later than 4:30 p.m., eastern time, on the due date referenced above. ACF cannot accommodate transmission of applications by facsimile or email. Late Applications Applications that do not meet the requirements above are considered late applications. ACF shall notify each late applicant that its application will not be considered in the current competition. ANY APPLICATION RECEIVED AFTER 4:30 P.M., EASTERN TIME, ON THE DUE DATE WILL NOT BE CONSIDERED FOR COMPETITION. .:. André Cramblit: andre.p.cramblit.86 at alum.dartmouth.org is the Operations Director Northern California Indian Development Council NCIDC (http://www.ncidc.org) is a non-profit that meets the development needs of American Indians To subscribe to a news letter of interest to Natives send an email to: IndigenousNewsNetwork-subscribe at topica.com or go to: http:// www.topica.com/lists/IndigenousNewsNetwork/subscribe/?location=listinfo -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU Mon Jan 23 22:31:19 2006 From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 15:31:19 -0700 Subject: Native Language Preservation and Maintenance (fwd) Message-ID: Program Office: Administration for Native Americans Funding Opportunity Title: Native Language Preservation and Maintenance Announcement Type: Initial Funding Opportunity Number: HHS-2006-ACF-ANA-NL-0016 CFDA Number: 93.587 DUE DATE FOR APPLICATIONS: 03/08/2006 Executive Summary: The Administration for Native Americans (ANA), within the Administration for Children and Families (ACF), announces the availability of Fiscal Year (FY) 2006 funds for new community-based activities under ANA's Native Language program. Financial assistance is provided utilizing a competitive process in accordance with the Native American Programs Act of 1974, as amended. ANA provides financial assistance to eligible applicants for the purpose of assisting Native Americans in assuring the survival and continuing vitality of their languages. Grants are provided under the following two categories: Category I-Assessment Grants are used to conduct the assessment needed to identify the current status of the Native American language(s) to be addressed and to establish community long-range language goals; and Category II-Design and/or Implementation Grants are to design and/or implement a preservation language project that will contribute to the achievement of the community's long-range language goal(s). http://www.acf.hhs.gov/grants/open/HHS-2006-ACF-ANA-NL-0016.html[1] From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU Mon Jan 23 22:41:09 2006 From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 15:41:09 -0700 Subject: Computer Keyboard With Nigerian Languages Invented (fwd) Message-ID: Computer Keyboard With Nigerian Languages Invented January 23, 2006 By Onwuka Nzeshi Abuja http://allafrica.com/stories/200601230731.html Nigeria has recorded another major achievement in Information Technology (IT), with the invention of a customised keyboard that provides the option of writing in Nigerian languages. The equipment, which is known as Konyin keyboard, was developed in Nigeria by Lancor Technologies, with the sole aim of promoting Nigerian languages through integration into the global information super-highway. The new technology has the ability to create words in three major Nigerian languages, namely Igbo, Hausa and Yoruba. It is a facility with hardware and software that uses 63 alphanumeric keys with four shift Keys. The two unique "Shift" keys are called Shift 2. The new technology represents a significant step in allowing languages with more than 26 alphabets to use a single keyboard layout for easy and direct access typing. For instance, an average African country like Nigeria encompasses more than 10 languages and when one combines all the unique alphabets needed to cover these languages, you may need more than 26 alphabets, but Konyin keyboard has made it possible to have one keyboard with a single layout that accommodates character - sets for many combined languages. At the formal presentation to National Information and Technology Development (NITDA) in Abuja, Lancor Technologies Chief Operating Officer, Mr George Van-Lare, said the language of a nation is an important element in defining the character and identity of that nation. "This is the reason why many countries ensured that computers in use in their countries provide the option of writing and using their native languages." Van-Lare said the use of language in the electronic format provides a great variety of application to move the language forward, prepare studies, preserve originality of the thought process and ensure development and availability of the language to a broad spectrum of users worldwide. "Nigerian names over the years have not been spelt correctly. This way, it begins to diminish in content and application. The reason is that there has been no convenient medium to allow Nigerians using the electronic format address their names and language on a computer," He said, "information today is driven by computer which is the main input device for print and electronic media". Speaking further, he noted that Nigeria as a country is made up of between 250-400 native languages." Konyin incorporates all the alphabets and tonal marks needed to type in any Nigerian language in a computer environment. It incorporates 14 extended characters, 13 combining tonal marks and 4 currency (symbols all available for direct access typing on a computer. Thus typing in Nigerian languages and English (the official language) and the use of the N is made very convenient on a single Keyboard. " We have brought the keyboard to National Informational Technology Development Agency (NITDA) The custodians of the growth and development of IT in Nigeria to pilot this development on behalf of Nigeria. We believe that through NITDA, this will serve as a standard for the use of Nigerian language and Nigerian computers for the development of the broad use of computers in our country", he explained. Director-General, NITDA, Prof Cleopas Angaye commended the management of the company for its achievement and said that with the keyboard it will be very easy to make input and output on information concerning Nigerian languages. ------------------------- Copyright © 2006 This Day. All rights reserved. Distributed by AllAfrica Global Media (allAfrica.com). ------------------------- From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU Mon Jan 23 22:48:42 2006 From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 15:48:42 -0700 Subject: Legislator steps up fight to save tribe's language (fwd) Message-ID: Monday, January 23, 2006 Legislator steps up fight to save tribe's language By Paul Carrier, Portland Press Herald Writer Copyright © 2006 Blethen Maine Newspapers Inc. http://pressherald.mainetoday.com/news/state/060123penobscots.shtml AUGUSTA — Michael Sockalexis, 58, remembers when he and other Penobscot children were told by their teachers not to speak their own language at school. Today, Sockalexis says, his grandchildren eagerly soak up Penobscot vocabulary in an after-school program on Indian Island. They get so excited about what they are learning, he said, that they can't wait to share it with their proud grandfather. Sockalexis, who represents his tribe in the Legislature, wants to build on such efforts and expand the Penobscot Nation's struggle to preserve its language. He has filed a bill "to develop a program to maintain and preserve the Penobscot language." The bill would deposit $300,000 in a Penobscot Language Preservation Fund operated by the state Department of Education. The state would use the money to help the tribe save its language, and to provide matching funds for additional aid from the National Endowment for the Humanities. Maine's four Indian tribes - the Penobscot Nation, Passamaquoddy Tribe, Houlton Band of Maliseets and Aroostook Band of Micmacs - speak languages that are closely related. Those tribes and the Abenakis comprise what is known as the Wabanaki Confederacy. Precise figures on the use of the Penobscot language are hard to come by, but Sockalexis said there are only "a handful of traditional speakers" among the tribe's more than 2,300 members, more than 1,000 of whom still live in Maine. Many other Penobscots know some words and phrases, he said, but they are not fluent. "My age group was the last generation to be immersed in it" at home as children, Sockalexis said, but he is no longer fluent. "I used to (speak Penobscot) as a young kid," Sockalexis said, but in the years that followed, "I lost it." The goal now is to reclaim the language by instilling it in the tribe's children, Sockalexis said, because Penobscot "is at a tipping point" and the key to preserving it "is getting it back to a conversational language." The tribe, which has a reservation on Indian Island, is working hard to do just that, using an after-school program that serves all students in the K-8 school, as well as an immersion summer camp at which students speak nothing but Penobscot. Sockalexis said his request for state funding, and the matching funds it would attract, would allow the tribe to move the language program back into the regular classroom, where it was before the money ran out. Tribal leaders in Maine say preserving native languages is important so the younger generation can understand its roots and so older people who grew up speaking an indigenous language can express themselves in a way that may be more natural to them than speaking English. "I prefer to speak (Passamaquoddy)," said Wayne Newell, 63, of Indian Township, a Passamaquoddy language coordinator and an authority on all of Maine's tribal languages. "When we were kids, that's all you spoke. That's all you had. That's all you saw," he said. Now, Newell said, native children of all tribes are unlikely to become fluent in their native languages, or to speak them at all, unless they learn them at school. "All of the indigenous languages in North America are very much in a challenged situation," he said, and Penobscot is no exception. Newell said efforts like those of Sockalexis are important because language defines people. As Edwina Mitchell of Indian Island, a Maliseet who works for the Penobscot Nation, put it: "I think Maliseet. That's why it's sometimes difficult for me to put something down in writing," because of the differences between Maliseet and English. Newell noted that verbs are more important than nouns in the Passamaquoddy language. And nouns in the family of languages that includes both Passamaquoddy and Penobscot are either animate or inanimate, in much the same way that nouns in French are masculine or feminine. "You can have a complete sentence in Passamaquoddy with one word," Newell said. He said there are some English words that have no equivalent in native languages, or that translate very differently. There is no Passamaquoddy word for "wild," for example, because "we have no concept of it" as Indians, Newell said. In Passamaquoddy, "wood-frame house" translates as "white man's wigwam," and the Passamaquoddy word for "white man" is not a descriptive term at all, but a question: "Who is this?" "Whenever you lose a language, you lose more than just a language," Newell said. "If I told you a (humorous) story in the Passamaquoddy language, it would be extremely funny to Passamaquoddy speakers," he said, but translate it into English and the humor is largely lost. "The culture is transmitted through the language," Sockalexis said, making it especially important to make Penobscot a conversational language once again. "There are legends in Penobscot that are lost in translation," Sockalexis said, reinforcing Newell's point that "if you take away a language, your field of vision becomes more limited." Staff Writer Paul Carrier can be contacted at 622-7511 or at:pcarrier at pressherald.com From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU Mon Jan 23 23:04:00 2006 From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 16:04:00 -0700 Subject: UNC Charlotte linguist restores lost language, culture for 'The New World' (fwd) Message-ID: UNC CHARLOTTE LINGUIST RESTORES LOST LANGUAGE, CULTURE FOR \'THE NEW WORLD\' Release Date: 2006-01-21 Original Link: http://presszoom.com/story_113745.html[1] The truism is that if you want to know a culture, learn the language. But what if the language and the culture are both dead – long, long dead? (PressZoom.com) - The truism is that if you want to know a culture, learn the language. But what if the language and the culture are both dead – long, long dead? Historical linguists, social scientists who are the archaeologists of cultures' ephemeral linguistic artifacts, have developed techniques that allow them to realistically re-create lost languages. The process, known as "language revitalization," has at least partially restored numerous languages that were known to have existed but were never recorded (or fully documented), literally allowing us to hear what the dead spoke. Generally, this has been done for academic reasons or because a culture's descendants want to try to re-establish their identity by recovering some of their lost past. Now it has been done in order to create a major motion picture. Language can be like cultural DNA, the genetic blueprint of how a civilization communicated and thought, containing the essence of a people's perspective and character. This is what Terrence Malick, director and writer of New Line Cinema's recent release The New World, discovered when he hired University of North Carolina at Charlotte linguist Blair Rudes to lend historical realism to the movie by coaching the cast in Virginia Algonquian, the language spoken by Pocahontas and other Native Americans who John Smith encountered in the founding of Jamestown. Malick had first tried to hire a native speaker, only to discover a problem – he found that the language had been extinct since around 1785, a common fate of many of the more than 800 languages spoken in North America at the time of the European encounter. Hiring Rudes, an authority in historical and current Native American languages, he soon learned that the challenge was even greater: the only record of Virginia Algonquian was a scant list of about 500 words transcribed by Englishman William Strachey (a friend of William Shakespeare) in 1609, and a few more words recorded by Smith. "The language and culture the English encountered really is a lost world," Rudes noted. "Virginia Algonquian is a member of the Algonquian family, a large group of languages which stretched across North America. On the East Coast there were perhaps 15 Algonquian languages and a lot of other languages. All the Eastern Algonquian languages except Passamaquoddy-Maliseet (a language still spoken by Native Americans in Maine and Canada) are extinct. They were among the first Native American languages to go extinct, because they were on the coast." Malick was in luck because Rudes is also one of a handful of linguists who are authorities in the field of "language revitalization" – the science of re-building lost languages. Rudes' science in turn, gave Malick a window into the past that was more profound than any found in the historical record. Aiming for realism, the movie sponsored the scientific resurrection of a lost culture's language. It was a more difficult job than the director probably suspected. "Originally they wanted the language revived for one scene and done by the end of the month, in keeping with the production schedule," said Rudes. "But the records of the Virginia Algonquian language are, shall we say, limited. "John Smith himself recorded about 50 words of the language and a secretary to the Jamestown colony named William Strachey published a work in 1612 – The Histotrie of Travell into Virginia Britania -- which contains about a 600 word vocabulary of Virginia Algonquian. 600 words, of course, is not a great deal. Webster's Unabridged College Dictionary of English has about 12,000 words," he noted. With the vast majority of the language's many-thousand word vocabulary missing along with its syntax and pronunciation, Rudes had to re-build the language wholesale using the sophisticated techniques of historical linguistics. In the process, Rudes interpreted Strachey's amateur record (transcriptions of an unknown language recorded as heard by a 17th Century English ear), compared it with better-surviving records of a few related Algonquian languages as well as with words that have been passed down into English, and applied theory and scholarship on the evolution of the language family. The process, which involves interpolating the evolution of pronunciation, syntax and meaning is complicated. For example, consider the reconstruction of the Virginia Algonquian words that Strachey records for "walnut," "shoes," and two different "kinds of beast" : "paukauns," "mawcasuns," "aroughcoune" and "opposum" have passed into American English usage as "pecans," "moccasins," "raccoon" and "opossum" and can be compared to "paka•ni" (meaning "large nut"), "maxkesen," (meaning "shoe"), "la•le•čkani" (meaning "raccoon") and "wa•pa’θemwi" (meaning "white dog") words in Proto-Algonquian, the re-constructed ancestral language of Virginia Algonquian. From this, Rudes reconstructs the Virginia Algonquian words "paka•n," "mahkəsən," "a•rehkan" and " wa•pahšəm." Other recorded words were even more difficult to interpret. Strachey records the Virginia Algonquian word for "the skie" as "arrokoth," but this corresponds most closely to the Proto-Algonquian word "a•lahkwatwi" which means "it is cloudy," and Rudes derives from this the Virginia Algonquian word "a•rahkwat," with a somewhat ambiguous meaning referring to the sky. While movies frequently fictionally re-create the lost past, The New World's attempts at realism crossed the line and began to historically re-vitalize the Virginia Algonquian language and culture and revive some of past reality. For example, when Rudes translated "to the east" (a description of where England is), he had to first translate the concept to "the other side of the water," to make sense to 17th Century Native Americans. "In this case, 'a land to the east' is a problem," noted Rudes, "because east of Jamestown is water – there is no land. At this point, all the Native Americans knew was there were these white-skinned people who lived on these islands in the Caribbean – they had no clue about Europe." In Proto-Algonquian, the re-written phrase translates as "aka•menki," which, given interpolated language evolution becomes "aka•mənk" in Virginia Algonquian. The modified script phrase "We come from England – an island on the other side of the water" is translated as "Inkərentənk nəwəmamən – mənənaq aka•məunk yapa•m." The product of Rudes' work was so convincing to the director and actors that Virginia Algonquian, originally intended to be spoken in only one scene, grew to become an integral part of the film's world and was used in about a third of the movie, with English subtitles. The translation, which had to be done on-location, was a massive and intense project for the linguist. "They sent me the material here in Charlotte in June," said Rudes. "I worked on it and I went down to Williamsburg, Virginia, where they were shooting the film, and Terrence Malick heard what I had recorded -- the pronunciation of one scene. He heard it and he loved it – he thought it was the most wonderful language he had ever heard. I spent the next month holed up in my hotel room, translating like crazy. "In the end, this became one of those rare times when a Native American language is used for the dialogue in a movie with subtitles," he said. The revitalization of Virginia Algonquian is likely to have further value beyond the celebrity of being shown to the world in a major motion picture. The production company is turning over the scripts and language CD's to the descendants of the Powhatan Confederacy, five state-recognized tribes in Virginia. Rudes expects to be working with the tribes on language reclamation programs and is working on a dictionary of Virginia Algonquian with Helen Rountree, an authority on the history of the Powhatan people. In addition to his work on Virginia Algonquian, Rudes is working on other language restoration projects with the Catawba tribe in North Carolina and the Pequot in Connecticut. Rudes does not expect the languages he works on to return to common usage, but he stresses that the project has real value for the cultures involved. "From my experience of doing language revival with different communities, it doesn't matter how much of the language people ultimately learn," he said. "What turns out to be really important is just that they learn some piece of the language because it is reclaiming their heritage. Especially here in the South, where there was early assimilation and where the languages and cultures were the earliest decimated. So much was lost that reclaiming any of it is a major event." ### Editors who need the correct linguistic spellings for Algonquian words may contact James Hathaway Source: Blair Rudes, 704-532-6153 Contact: James Hathaway jbhathaw at email.uncc.edu 704-687-6675 Links: ------ [1] http://presszoom.com/story_113745.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU Mon Jan 23 23:07:47 2006 From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 16:07:47 -0700 Subject: "New World" Film Revives Extinct Native American Tongue (fwd) Message-ID: "New World" Film Revives Extinct Native American Tongue Stefan Lovgren for National Geographic News January 20, 2006 http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/01/0120_060120_new_world.html For his movie The New World, which arrives in U.S. theaters nationwide today, director Terrence Malick wanted to accurately recreate the sights and sounds of a 17th-century English colony. The film depicts the clash between the native Algonquian Indians and English settlers at the founding of Jamestown in present-day Virginia. Malick therefore decided to have the Native American characters speak the indigenous language of the time—Virginia Algonquian. [Photo: Movie still from The New World] There was only one problem: No one had spoken the tongue for about 200 years. Enter Blair Rudes, a linguist at the University of North Carolina at Charlotte. As the amount of Virginia Algonquian dialogue spoken in the movie increased from just two scenes to more than a third of the film, Rudes found himself reconstructing an entire language that had long gone extinct. (Click here to download an audio clip.) National Geographic News recently spoke with Rudes about the challenges of bringing a language back from the dead. It sounds like the filmmakers had no idea what they were getting themselves into with this language restoration project. Terrence Malick wanted the movie to be as authentic as possible. It was his decision to use the native language indigenous to the area at the founding of Jamestown. What he didnt know was that the language had been extinct since the late 18th or early 19th century. Virginia Algonquian is part of a family of languages known as Algonquian, right? Yes, there were about 800 native languages in North America, and five or six families. The Algonquian family was one of the largest. It extended from the province of Manitoba [in Canada] to the eastern seaboard and down to North Carolina. On the East Coast, there were perhaps 15 Algonquian languages. Most no longer have any speakers. Why did the languages on the coast go extinct first? That was simply a contact phenomenon. When the English first arrived, they were the minority population, and they were dependent upon the majority Algonquian speakers for their survival. So initially they learned some Algonquian. But then the number of English kept increasing. Once the colonies could survive on their own without being dependent on the Algonquian Indians, the English stopped learning Algonquian. Meanwhile, the Algonquian ended up being dependent on the English colonies for trade goods. So they continued to learn English, because there was a long tradition going way back into pre-history of bilingualism among East Coast Native American people. They didn't mind learning another language. Gradually their own language faded out. [Photo: Movie still from The New World] Did the English make any written records of Virginia Algonquian? One of the [colony's] secretaries, a man named William Strachey, recorded a vocabulary of about 500 words of Virginia Algonquian. Then there was the word list that John Smith recorded, which was less than 50 words. That's basically all the material there is. And from this you had to reconstruct an entire language. It's fair to say the resources at your disposal were pretty limited. I had been doing similar work for [another tribal nation] in terms of reviving their ancestral language, Pequot, which is also an eastern Algonquian language. I pulled together everything that was known about every eastern Algonquian language. The real job was to figure out what Virginia Algonquian looked like in terms of pronunciation and grammar and trying to figure out which of the other eastern languages it was similar to, so I knew where to go when I needed to have a word or grammatical structure that was not attested by Strachey or Smith. How often was that? A lot. This is why I jokingly refer to the language in the film as the Blair Rudes dialect of Virginia Algonquian. The core of it is based on the material collected by Strachey and John Smith. But only maybe a quarter of the words necessary to translate the dialogue were attested in that material. I had to go elsewhere for the rest. So what would you do when you didn't have the material from Strachey and Smith to consult? I would turn to three other Algonquian languages and say, How would you say this word in those languages? If I could find two of them that agree, then I would say, OK, that's probably how the majority of the eastern Algonquian languages do it, and the third one is doing something weird. And I would make the assumption that Virginia Algonquian is saying it the same way. What is the language's sentence structure like? For the most part, subjects would come first, objects would come second, verbs would come last. But sometimes objects would come after verbs. Adverbs would frequently come at the very beginning of a sentence. So if they're saying, "I love you always," it would be, "Always I love you." Were there any particular words or expressions that were difficult to translate? [In the script] … when Smith and Powhatan were first speaking, Smith said, "I come from a land to the east." But at the time Smith arrived in Jamestown, the only thing [the tribe knew of] to the east was the ocean. What we ended up saying is something like, "I come from an island at the other side of the sea." That would be conceivable, that there would be an island out there beyond what they could see. What did the language sound like to the British colonists? Would it have been difficult for them to learn? The Algonquian are among the easier [Native American languages] in terms of pronunciation for a European. They tend to be somewhat like Spanish, for example, in terms of having a consonant-vowel-consonant-vowel structure. This is one of the reasons why the English borrowed quite a number of words from the Algonquian language that we still have today, like pecan, opossum, and moccasins. How difficult was it for the actors to speak the language? They picked it up quite quickly. Some of the seasoned actors memorized their lines. The younger actors, like Q'Orianka Kilcher [who plays Pocahontas], were willing to learn the language like you would any foreign language. She would learn the pronunciation and the meaning of every single word and then string them together to make the dialogue. It must have been incredibly demanding for you too. I had no life for two months. During those first two weeks when the decision had been made to move from 2 to 40-something scenes, I basically stayed in my hotel room and translated, translated, translated and recorded, recorded, recorded. Then I had to be on location whenever they filmed a scene where Virginia Algonquian was spoken. The thing that was the most challenging was when Terrence Malick would change his mind and want an actor to say something else. He would call me in and say, OK, teach him how to say this, and I would have to do it right there and then. Sometimes I would know off the top of my head. Other times, I would have to make up something that I felt would have enough syllables in it that the actor could say it, and later we could do a voice-over to put in what should have been said. This project doesn't end with the movie for you. As soon as the DVD is released, we are going to turn over all the CDs and scripts that I had prepared for the film to the Virginia tribes for them to use in their language revitalization efforts. My job will be to consult in those efforts. Meanwhile, I'm working on an expanded full dictionary of Virginia Algonquian. All of this will be useful to the Virginia tribes in revitalizing their language. From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU Mon Jan 23 23:31:21 2006 From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 16:31:21 -0700 Subject: Indigenous Amazonians display core understanding of geometry (fwd) Message-ID: The study of geometrical understanding among the Mundurukú, who live in remote areas along the Cururu River in Brazil, is described this week in the journal Science. (Photos © Pierre Pica and CNRS) INDIGENOUS AMAZONIANS DISPLAY CORE UNDERSTANDING OF GEOMETRY Findings Suggest Basic Geometrical Knowledge Is A Universal Constituent Of The Human Mind BY STEVE BRADT FAS Communications Researchers in France and at Harvard University have found that isolated indigenous peoples deep in the Amazon readily grasp basic concepts of geometry such as points, lines, parallelism, and right angles, and can use distance, angle, and other relationships in maps to locate hidden objects. The results suggest that geometry is a core set of intuitions present in all humans, regardless of their language or schooling. The study of geometrical understanding among the Mundurukú, who live in remote areas along the Cururu River in Brazil, is described this week in the journal Science. "Although there has been a lot of research on spatial maps, navigation, and sense of direction, there is very little work on the conceptual representations in geometry," says co-author Stanislas Dehaene of the Collège de France in Paris. "What is meant by 'point,' 'line,' 'parallel,' 'square' versus 'rectangle'? All are highly idealized concepts never met in physical reality. Our work is a first start in the exploration of these concepts." The work by Dehaene and colleagues suggests that such concepts are largely universal across humans. "While geometrical concepts can be enriched by culture-specific devices like maps, or the terms of a natural language, underneath this variability lies a shared set of geometrical concepts," says co-author Elizabeth S. Spelke, a professor of psychology in Harvard's Faculty of Arts and Sciences. "These concepts allow adults and children with no formal education, and minimal spatial language, to categorize geometrical forms and to use geometrical relationships to represent the surrounding spatial layout." Dehaene, Spelke, and co-authors Véronique Izard and Pierre Pica developed and administered two different sets of tests during visits to the Mundurukú in 2004 and 2005. Their first test, designed to assess comprehension of basic concepts such as points, lines, parallelism, figure, congruence, and symmetry, presented arrays of six images, one of which was subtly dissimilar. For instance, five comparable trapezoids might be matched with a sixth nontrapezoidal quadrilateral of similar size. The Mundurukú were then asked, in their own language, which of the images was "weird" or "ugly." Mundurukú subjects, even those as young as 6 years old, chose the correct image an average 66.8 percent of the time, showing competence with basic concepts of topology, Euclidean geometry and basic geometrical figures. The performance of both Mundurukú adults and children on the task rivaled that of American children in separate testing done by the scientists. "If the Mundurukú share with us the conceptual primitives of geometry," the researchers write, "they should infer the intended geometrical concept behind each array and therefore select the discrepant image." Mundurukú subjects, even those as young as 6 years old, chose the correct image an average 66.8 percent of the time, showing competence with basic concepts of topology, Euclidean geometry, and basic geometrical figures. The performance of both Mundurukú adults and children on the task rivaled that of American children in separate testing done by the scientists, while the performance of American adults was significantly higher. Dehaene, Spelke, and colleagues also administered an abstract map test where subjects were given a simple diagram to identify which of three containers arrayed in a triangle on the ground hid an object. Both Mundurukú adults and children were able to relate the geometrical information on the map to geometrical relationships in the environment, attaining an overall success rate of 71 percent that again matched the performance of American children while lagging behind that of American adults. The superior performance of Western adults suggests that formal education enhances or refines geometrical concepts. Nevertheless, the report concludes, "the spontaneous understanding of geometrical concepts and maps by this remote human community provides evidence that core geometrical knowledge ... is a universal constituent of the human mind." The study of human geometrical knowledge has a long history, dating back at least to Socrates' probing of the intuitions of an uneducated slave in a Greek household, chronicled by Plato approximately 2,400 years ago. "Many of the references in our paper are from Plato, Riemann, and Poincaré," Dehaene says. "What excited us was the ability to ask experimentally some questions which belong to a very long history of questions about the foundations of geometry." Dehaene, Izard, Pica, and Spelke's work was supported by INSERM, CNRS, the National Institutes of Health, and the McDonnell Foundation. http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/daily/2006/01/19-amazon.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 98296 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 78601 bytes Desc: not available URL: From MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US Tue Jan 24 01:32:48 2006 From: MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US (Mia Kalish) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 18:32:48 -0700 Subject: Native Language Preservation and Maintenance (fwd) In-Reply-To: <20060123153119.h44k00ocg0w4gkos@www.email.arizona.edu> Message-ID: Wow. Phil is Back. How nice. Hi, Phil. How is Idaho? -----Original Message----- From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of phil cash cash Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 3:31 PM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: [ILAT] Native Language Preservation and Maintenance (fwd) Program Office: Administration for Native Americans Funding Opportunity Title: Native Language Preservation and Maintenance Announcement Type: Initial Funding Opportunity Number: HHS-2006-ACF-ANA-NL-0016 CFDA Number: 93.587 DUE DATE FOR APPLICATIONS: 03/08/2006 Executive Summary: The Administration for Native Americans (ANA), within the Administration for Children and Families (ACF), announces the availability of Fiscal Year (FY) 2006 funds for new community-based activities under ANA's Native Language program. Financial assistance is provided utilizing a competitive process in accordance with the Native American Programs Act of 1974, as amended. ANA provides financial assistance to eligible applicants for the purpose of assisting Native Americans in assuring the survival and continuing vitality of their languages. Grants are provided under the following two categories: Category I-Assessment Grants are used to conduct the assessment needed to identify the current status of the Native American language(s) to be addressed and to establish community long-range language goals; and Category II-Design and/or Implementation Grants are to design and/or implement a preservation language project that will contribute to the achievement of the community's long-range language goal(s). http://www.acf.hhs.gov/grants/open/HHS-2006-ACF-ANA-NL-0016.html[1] From fmarmole at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU Tue Jan 24 03:31:11 2006 From: fmarmole at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (Francisco Marmolejo) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 20:31:11 -0700 Subject: FW: X FORO DE LINGSTICA APLICADA / 10th Symposium of Applied Linguistics Message-ID: Dear colleagues: Please forward to those interested on this event to be held at the University of the Americas, in Puebla, Mexico. Regards, Francisco Marmolejo Executive Director Consortium for North American Higher Education Collaboration (CONAHEC) University of Arizona PO Box 210300 220 W. Sixth Street. Tucson, AZ 85721-0300 USA Tel. (520) 621-9080 / 621-7761 Fax (520) 626-2675 Email: fmarmole at email.arizona.edu http://conahec.org _____ From: Foro de Linguistica Aplicada [mailto:xforo.la at udlap.mx] Sent: Lunes, 23 de Enero de 2006 03:17 p.m. Subject: X FORO DE LINGÜÍSTICA APLICADA Fellow Colleague, We look forward to your participation in our Symposium. We would appreciate it if you send this information on to others who might be interested. For more information, please visit our website at: http://www.udlap.mx/~lldl_www/congreso/ . Thanks for your interest and for sharing this information! ********************************************************************** UNIVERSIDAD DE LAS AMÉRICAS, PUEBLA 10th SYMPOSIUM ON APPLIED LINGUISTICS “Opening Classroom Doors: Integrating Language Learning Communities” MAY 19 – 20, 2006 CALL FOR PAPERS +++++++ Estimado Colega, Esperamos su participación en nuestro Foro. Apreciaríamos que compartieran esta información a otros posibles interesados. Para mayor información, visite nuestro sitio en: http://www.udlap.mx/~lldl_www/congreso/ . ¡Gracias por su interés y difusión! *********************************************************************** UNIVERSIDAD DE LAS AMÉRICAS, PUEBLA X FORO DE LINGÜÍSTICA APLICADA "Abriendo las puertas del aula: La Integración de las Comunidades de Aprendizaje de Idiomas” 19 y 20 de mayo, 2006 CONVOCATORIA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From susan.penfield at GMAIL.COM Tue Jan 24 16:46:18 2006 From: susan.penfield at GMAIL.COM (Susan Penfield) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 09:46:18 -0700 Subject: Language is Life Conference Message-ID: -- Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. Department of English Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program American Indian Language Development Institute Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU Wed Jan 25 01:11:35 2006 From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 18:11:35 -0700 Subject: THORNTON MEDIA, INC. IS THE ONLY LANGUAGE TOOL COMPANY IN THE WORLD DEVOTED TO NATIVE AMERICAN LANGUAGES. Message-ID: THORNTON MEDIA, INC. ( HTTP://WWW.NDNTV.COM ) IS THE ONLY LANGUAGE TOOL COMPANY IN THE WORLD DEVOTED TO NATIVE AMERICAN LANGUAGES. http://i-newswire.com/pr54795.html (I-Newswire) - Banning, CA, January 25, 2006 -- Several generations of American Indians from the 1930s to the 1970s were sent to U.S. Government boarding schools where they were not allowed to speak their native languages. Native students of that era who spoke their language were severely punished. "My mother was part of that boarding school era where Indian kids were made to be ashamed to be Indian," said Cherokee businessman, Don Thornton. Now Thornton uses U.S. Government technology to revitalize the native languages that were decimated during that era. The revolutionary Phraselator P2, developed by defense contractor Voxtec International in the aftermath of 9/11, is a handheld unit that allows the user to instantly translate spoken English words and phrases into any Native language. "Phraselator holds tens or thousands of phrases, words and songs in one machine. You can hold your entire language in the palm of your hand," said Thornton. Since early 2005, dozens of Native speakers have begun recording their languages onto the hi-tech machines. Many are among the last speakers of their languages. "After I played with it I cried. This will help save our language," said Jane Dumas, a Kumeyaay elder from Southern California. Thornton Media, Inc. is the only language tool company in the world devoted to Native Languages. Recently they announced their move into the international market with the addition of six Canadian Reserves to their tribal client list of 30 tribes. A consortium of Blackfeet Tribes in Alberta purchased 28 Phraselator units for language revitalization. "This is a very interesting tool with tremendous potential. It has the ability to focus on our language and how precise it is," said Keith Weasel Head, from the Kainai Board of Education in Alberta, Canada. In the launching of the product, TMI has provided on-site training to native language teachers and speakers in widespread areas of North America at minimal costs, often barely making a profit due to travel costs. They have traveled mainly to reservations in California, Oklahoma, Montana, North Carolina, Alaska and Canada to record with often the last native speakers of their languages. During their journeys, many heart warming stories were told. "I have been waiting for such a tool all my life. Phraselator is what I need," said Terry Brokie, a Gros Vente language teacher in Montana. "It is a great tool that can give us our whole world in our hand," said Ken Tuffy Helpeson, a Nakota language teacher in Montana. "It's ironic," said Thornton, "that this tool, created by the US Government may help to save the languages that they attempted to wipe out for generations. With Phraselator tribes can now have full control over their languages without the help of outsiders. TMI don't own a database of the recordings of any tribe. The only one I own was recorded by my grandma, Lucinda Robbins, a master speaker of Cherokee." Don Thornton ( Cherokee ), a filmmaker in Southern California founded TMI in 1996 to create positive images of American Indians. Thornton is a former Indian journalist who also worked in social services for many years. He created and ran the cutting-edge American Indian Clubhouse in Los Angeles ( from 1996-99 ), an after-school program for Indian kids in LA, which the National Indian Review referred to as a "bright shining light in urban Indian Country." An interest in neuroscience and brain development led Thornton to adapt hi-tech language products to Native languages. ### For more information, please contact Don & Kara Thornton USA +1 818.406.3555 Thornton Media Inc. - http://www.ndntv.com From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU Wed Jan 25 01:18:26 2006 From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 18:18:26 -0700 Subject: Under The Northern Sky (fwd) Message-ID: Under The Northern Sky A figure of speech By Xavier Kataquapit http://www.firstperspective.ca/story_2006_01_10_sky.php The Cree language was the first form of communication that I learned as a small child. Everyone around me spoke it. It was natural and very comforting for me. Cree was the only language I spoke for the first few years of my life. However, it wasn’t long before I started to become bilingual. Mom understood the importance of a good education. At a young age, she encouraged myself and my younger brothers to learn the English language before we started school. She provided her daily nurturing in the Cree language and taught us some English one word at a time. I started school at about six years of age. I can remember meeting my teacher for the first time and being frightened at being taken into another world. I recall being in the class with my cousins and relations and speaking in our own language. I was confused at first because all the lessons and material were in English. The woman who taught us could not speak Cree and always spoke to us in English. In fact, it felt really intimidating and scary to wander around the hallways or any part of the school where most of the adults that worked there spoke a foreign language. All through my schooling at home, Cree was the way to communicate. Even though I understood and learned the English language, I seldom spoke it and instead I talked to my friends in class in Cree. We always felt separated from our teachers because they could not speak our language. We understood them but they could not always understand us. There was also a sense of intimidation and the possibility of being excluded from friends in the class if anyone spoke English. We were all shy to begin with and when anyone of us spoke in another language we would make fun of each other. So, no one made the effort to speak the English language in a big way. This reality made it difficult for all of us when we graduated from elementary school to high school. Back in the late 80s and early 90s students were still being sent away from Attawapiskat to attend school in places such as Timmins and North Bay. When we started High School, we stuck together because of the common bond of language. It was familiar and comforting for all of us to freely speak Cree. As we were away from home being able to speak in our traditional language made us feel more comfortable in our new world. This didn’t make it any easier on us. Everything we had to do revolved around the use of the English language. I remember myfirst year of school being difficult. I was shy and I had a hard time adjusting to this new reality. We still made fun of one another when someone spoke English but it became more and more necessary to speak a second language in order to be understood and to survive. As a result of all this confusion and fear I did not actively start speaking the English language until I was 14 years of age. A friend once asked an interesting question about my ability to speak two languages. He asked what language I used in my mind when I thought about things. At first I was surprised at the question because I never really thought about it. This was funny because as I thought about the question, I was speaking a mix of both Cree and English. The answer is that sometimes I use Cree and sometimes English. Up north, this use of both traditional Cree and modern English is becoming the norm. Young people use a mix of traditional words and gestures along with North American catch phrases. It is interesting to see this change in the language in a small remote community. Students no longer leave the community to go south to attend high school, yet through the growth of cable and satellite television and modern communication technologies such as the internet, young people are more exposed to the North American pop culture and fashion trends. This exposure has meant that younger people are using their traditional language less. Fortunately, the remoteness of our communities has meant that we are still able to retain our traditional language to a great degree. Cree is the only language I can use when I speak to my grandmother as she lived in a traditional setting most of her life. My parents speak mostly Cree although they are able to communicate fairly well in English. At this point in time most young people are able to fluently speak both languages. Many northern First Nations are similar to Attawapiskat in that they have included education in Cree language as part of the curriculum for young students. These teachers are usually local people so that makes things easier for the children. Although we have relied on our remoteness to ensure we retain our language, things are changing quickly. Cree language studies for our youth will make sure that our language will continue to be passed down through the ages. So that in 20 years from now all the children in Attawapiskat will be able to say Meegwetch, Mee-Nah-N-Che Kah-Wah-Mee-Tee-N Oo-Tah (Thanks, see you here again). -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU Wed Jan 25 23:19:43 2006 From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 16:19:43 -0700 Subject: ILAT Update (was Re: [ILAT] Native Language Preservation and Maintenance (fwd)) In-Reply-To: <001201c62086$186497f0$6501a8c0@LFPMia> Message-ID: Dear ILAT, Hi Mia & everybody.  I am now here on the Nez Perce Reservation, Idaho starting the first stage of my PhD linguistic/language research.  I am glad to be here.  It is cold and snow is on the high mountains, certainly a change from 70+ degrees in Tucson, AZ ;-) I will continue to send news to ILAT.  Though at least for now, it may be sporadic as I get situated here.  I really enjoyed all of your discussions lately.  Please carry on.  Phil Cash Cash ILAT listserv mng Quoting Mia Kalish : > Wow. Phil is Back. How nice. > > Hi, Phil. > > How is Idaho? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] > On Behalf Of phil cash cash > Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 3:31 PM > To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > Subject: [ILAT] Native Language Preservation and Maintenance (fwd) > > Program Office: Administration for Native Americans > Funding Opportunity Title: Native Language Preservation and Maintenance > Announcement Type: Initial > Funding Opportunity Number: HHS-2006-ACF-ANA-NL-0016 > CFDA Number: 93.587 > > DUE DATE FOR APPLICATIONS: 03/08/2006 > > Executive Summary: The Administration for Native Americans (ANA), > within the Administration for Children and Families (ACF), announces > the availability of Fiscal Year (FY) 2006 funds for new community-based > activities under ANA's Native Language program. Financial assistance is > provided utilizing a competitive process in accordance with the Native > American Programs Act of 1974, as amended. ANA provides financial > assistance to eligible applicants for the purpose of assisting Native > Americans in assuring the survival and continuing vitality of their > languages. Grants are provided under the following two categories: > Category I-Assessment Grants are used to conduct the assessment needed > to identify the current status of the Native American language(s) to be > addressed and to establish community long-range language goals; and > Category II-Design and/or Implementation Grants are to design and/or > implement a preservation language project that will contribute to the > achievement of the community's long-range language goal(s). > > http://www.acf.hhs.gov/grants/open/HHS-2006-ACF-ANA-NL-0016.html[1] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU Wed Jan 25 23:26:41 2006 From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 16:26:41 -0700 Subject: Not the Typical Movie Dialogue (fwd link) Message-ID: Not the Typical Movie Dialogue 'THE NEW WORLD,\' An Epic FIlm About Settlers and Indigenous People Resurrects A Language Not Spoken Since 1700s http://www.nynewsday.com/news/health/ny-hspoca254600481jan25,0,4916507,print.story?coll=ny-health-print From MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US Wed Jan 25 23:28:27 2006 From: MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US (Mia Kalish) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 16:28:27 -0700 Subject: ILAT Update (was Re: [ILAT] Native Language Preservation and Maintenance (fwd)) In-Reply-To: <20060125161943.wk44sso4wogcs0ws@www.email.arizona.edu> Message-ID: Hi, Phil, I really think that area is one of the most beautiful in the country. I am especially in love with the Snake River and the trout. I know they have other wonderful fish, but there were lots of trout in the brooks where I grew up, and I really miss them. They say there are trout in the brooks here in New Mexico, but I haven't seen any yet. Will you be living on the Rez? Will you have a computer and internet there? (Will you be able to send or post pictures?) So very nice to hear from you, and know you are doing well. I was there a few years ago, during winter break, so I can imagine exactly what it looks like. :-) Mia _____ From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of phil cash cash Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 4:20 PM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: [ILAT] ILAT Update (was Re: [ILAT] Native Language Preservation and Maintenance (fwd)) Dear ILAT, Hi Mia & everybody. I am now here on the Nez Perce Reservation, Idaho starting the first stage of my PhD linguistic/language research. I am glad to be here. It is cold and snow is on the high mountains, certainly a change from 70+ degrees in Tucson, AZ ;-) I will continue to send news to ILAT. Though at least for now, it may be sporadic as I get situated here. I really enjoyed all of your discussions lately. Please carry on. Phil Cash Cash ILAT listserv mng Quoting Mia Kalish : > Wow. Phil is Back. How nice. > > Hi, Phil. > > How is Idaho? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:http://www.acf.hhs.gov/grants/open/HHS-2006-ACF-ANA-NL-0016.html[1] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jtucker at STARBAND.NET Thu Jan 26 05:58:09 2006 From: jtucker at STARBAND.NET (Jan Tucker) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 00:58:09 -0500 Subject: ILAT Update (was Re: [ILAT] Native Language Preservation and Maintenance (fwd)) Message-ID: Phil, I for one hope you will keep us posted on how you are doing, your progess, you challenges, your joyous experiences, and as Mia asked, PICTURES and let me add maybe some sound bites. We will carry on, though I'm a lurker most of the time. Good to know you'll be on sporatdically. Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: phil cash cash To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 6:19 PM Subject: [ILAT] ILAT Update (was Re: [ILAT] Native Language Preservation and Maintenance (fwd)) Dear ILAT, Hi Mia & everybody. I am now here on the Nez Perce Reservation, Idaho starting the first stage of my PhD linguistic/language research. I am glad to be here. It is cold and snow is on the high mountains, certainly a change from 70+ degrees in Tucson, AZ ;-) I will continue to send news to ILAT. Though at least for now, it may be sporadic as I get situated here. I really enjoyed all of your discussions lately. Please carry on. Phil Cash Cash ILAT listserv mng Quoting Mia Kalish : > Wow. Phil is Back. How nice. > > Hi, Phil. > > How is Idaho? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] > On Behalf Of phil cash cash > Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 3:31 PM > To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > Subject: [ILAT] Native Language Preservation and Maintenance (fwd) > > Program Office: Administration for Native Americans > Funding Opportunity Title: Native Language Preservation and Maintenance > Announcement Type: Initial > Funding Opportunity Number: HHS-2006-ACF-ANA-NL-0016 > CFDA Number: 93.587 > > DUE DATE FOR APPLICATIONS: 03/08/2006 > > Executive Summary: The Administration for Native Americans (ANA), > within the Administration for Children and Families (ACF), announces > the availability of Fiscal Year (FY) 2006 funds for new community-based > activities under ANA's Native Language program. Financial assistance is > provided utilizing a competitive process in accordance with the Native > American Programs Act of 1974, as amended. ANA provides financial > assistance to eligible applicants for the purpose of assisting Native > Americans in assuring the survival and continuing vitality of their > languages. Grants are provided under the following two categories: > Category I-Assessment Grants are used to conduct the assessment needed > to identify the current status of the Native American language(s) to be > addressed and to establish community long-range language goals; and > Category II-Design and/or Implementation Grants are to design and/or > implement a preservation language project that will contribute to the > achievement of the community's long-range language goal(s). > > http://www.acf.hhs.gov/grants/open/HHS-2006-ACF-ANA-NL-0016.html[1] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU Fri Jan 27 19:02:45 2006 From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash) Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 12:02:45 -0700 Subject: ILAT Update (was Re: [ILAT] Native Language Preservation and Maintenance (fwd)) In-Reply-To: <20060125161943.wk44sso4wogcs0ws@www.email.arizona.edu> Message-ID: Dear ILAT, Here is a picture I thought I would share you all. The picture is of the language program building which is a former Indian Agency building now transformed to do the important work of revitalizing the Nez Perce language. I have been given office space here. Nez Perce elders are here quite regularly. With permission, I will try and give a brief summary later on of their program and post it to the list. I will be doing mostly language documentation work here for my PhD research. Later, Phil Cash Cash UofA, ILAT listserv mng -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: np_langprogram.gif Type: image/gif Size: 171206 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU Fri Jan 27 19:24:34 2006 From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash) Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 12:24:34 -0700 Subject: Central Oregon "SQUAW" Name Changes Approved (fwd) Message-ID: CENTRAL OREGON “SQUAW” NAME CHANGES APPROVED Bend.com news sources Posted: Friday, January 27, 2006 7:05 AM http://bend.com/news/ar_view.php?ar_id=24206 SISTERS—The U.S. Board on Geographic Names has given final approval to 16 name changes and one new name for Central Oregon landscape features that use the word “Squaw”. The changes remove the derogatory word as a place name and resulted from several years of consultation with the Confederated Tribes of Warm Springs and the Oregon Geographic Names Board. The new names now apply to five creeks, four buttes, four canyons, two meadows and two waterfalls in Central Oregon. Many Native Americans consider the word “Squaw” to be a derogatory term. In 2001, Oregon became the sixth state to ban the term from public place names under Senate Bill 488. Forest Service regulations also prohibit derogatory names from being used in documents or on maps. Deschutes and Ochoco National Forest officials proposed the changes to comply with the state law and federal directives. The U.S. Board on Geographic Names made final judgment on the proposed name changes, after the Oregon Geographic Names Board’s initial review and approval of the proposal in October 2005. The state board supervises the naming of all geographic features within Oregon. However, final approval is required by the U.S. Board on Geographic Names before the changes are final. “This is the largest group of name changes that have ever been approved at one time in the state of Oregon,” said Champ Vaughan, Oregon Geographic Names Board president. Locally, the most well-known feature is Squaw Creek which runs through Sisters and Madras. The stream is a federally-designated Wild and Scenic River that flows from glaciers on the Three Sisters Mountains. Its new name is “Whychus Creek” (pronounced “Why-choose”), a historic name derived from the Sahaptin Indian language. Explorers recorded the name in 1855, during a search for a new railroad route through the Cascades to the Pacific Ocean. From jtucker at STARBAND.NET Fri Jan 27 20:01:18 2006 From: jtucker at STARBAND.NET (Jan Tucker) Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 15:01:18 -0500 Subject: Affordable digital recorder advise. Message-ID: List members, Excuse me if this topic has already come up. After reading about Thornton Media's devise and looking at it's price tag, I realized that most educators like myself might no be able to afford it and wondered what experienced preservationists are using to record and digitize language in a field setting. Thank you in advance for any advise, Jan "THORNTON MEDIA, INC. ( HTTP://WWW.NDNTV.COM ) IS THE ONLY LANGUAGE TOOL COMPANY IN THE WORLD DEVOTED TO NATIVE AMERICAN LANGUAGES. http://i-newswire.com/pr54795.html" From MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US Mon Jan 30 14:36:12 2006 From: MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US (Mia Kalish) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 07:36:12 -0700 Subject: Affordable digital recorder advise. In-Reply-To: <022601c6237c$79bbde70$3dd23f94@LOCALSERVER> Message-ID: Jan & all, I have been using Olympus digital recorders for years now. They have 3 quality settings (low, medium, & high) and 2 recording modes (one for meetings, one for one-to-one). The ones I buy are about $99. I recently got a Sony refurb unit for $32 at e-cost.com. I didn't read the thread about recorders, because I'm really happy with mine, and I had shared about it before. Mia -----Original Message----- From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Jan Tucker Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 1:01 PM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: [ILAT] Affordable digital recorder advise. List members, Excuse me if this topic has already come up. After reading about Thornton Media's devise and looking at it's price tag, I realized that most educators like myself might no be able to afford it and wondered what experienced preservationists are using to record and digitize language in a field setting. Thank you in advance for any advise, Jan "THORNTON MEDIA, INC. ( HTTP://WWW.NDNTV.COM ) IS THE ONLY LANGUAGE TOOL COMPANY IN THE WORLD DEVOTED TO NATIVE AMERICAN LANGUAGES. http://i-newswire.com/pr54795.html" From MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US Mon Jan 30 15:09:51 2006 From: MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US (Mia Kalish) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 08:09:51 -0700 Subject: ILAT Update (was Re: [ILAT] Native Language Preservation and Maintenance (fwd)) In-Reply-To: <20060127120245.pvplwwkkoccc00sg@www.email.arizona.edu> Message-ID: Thanks, I enjoyed this a lot. The Idaho colors are as I remember them {always nice}. Glad you are being treated well :-) and are in comfortable contact with the Elders :-). Mia _____ From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of phil cash cash Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 12:03 PM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [ILAT] ILAT Update (was Re: [ILAT] Native Language Preservation and Maintenance (fwd)) Dear ILAT, Here is a picture I thought I would share you all. The picture is of the language program building which is a former Indian Agency building now transformed to do the important work of revitalizing the Nez Perce language. I have been given office space here. Nez Perce elders are here quite regularly. With permission, I will try and give a brief summary later on of their program and post it to the list. I will be doing mostly language documentation work here for my PhD research. Later, Phil Cash Cash UofA, ILAT listserv mng -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thien at UNIMELB.EDU.AU Mon Jan 30 19:01:06 2006 From: thien at UNIMELB.EDU.AU (Nicholas Thieberger) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 06:01:06 +1100 Subject: Affordable digital recorder advice In-Reply-To: <005401c625aa$86b69ae0$6401a8c0@LFPMia> Message-ID: Just to add to this thread from an archival perspective. If you are recording unique things that you want to be available to generations to come then you need to think about the format of what you are recording and whether it will endure. Olympus and other small (and cheap, unfortunately) recorders do not record in archival formats. For a summary of the issues around longterm storage of recorded material and endangered languages you could look at http://emeld.org/school/index.html. There was a discussion of recorders on the RNLD list and if you go to the archive of the RNLD list, here: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?S1=resource-network-linguistic-diversity and search for 'flash' and 'recorder' you will get some useful info A summary item is here: http://linguistlist.org/issues/16/16-2710.html All the best, Nick Thieberger At 7:36 AM -0700 30/1/06, Mia Kalish wrote: >Jan & all, > >I have been using Olympus digital recorders for years now. They have 3 >quality settings (low, medium, & high) and 2 recording modes (one for >meetings, one for one-to-one). The ones I buy are about $99. I recently got >a Sony refurb unit for $32 at e-cost.com. > >I didn't read the thread about recorders, because I'm really happy with >mine, and I had shared about it before. > >Mia -- Project Manager PARADISEC Department of Linguistics and Applied Linguistics University of Melbourne, Vic 3010 Australia nicholas.thieberger at paradisec.org.au Ph 61 (0)3 8344 5185 PARADISEC Pacific And Regional Archive for Digital Sources in Endangered Cultures http://paradisec.org.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrekar at NCIDC.ORG Mon Jan 30 19:08:08 2006 From: andrekar at NCIDC.ORG (Andre Cramblit) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 11:08:08 -0800 Subject: Invitation To naive Language website In-Reply-To: <20060130144525.96003.qmail@web31810.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Will keep ya in the loop On Jan 30, 2006, at 6:45 AM, Matthew McDaniel wrote: Andre: I get your fantastic emails, great to see such energy. I have set up www.endangeredlanguages.org Any links you may send me, if there are a lot ( I could imagine) you can put them in the categories that you want. I will post them there. It isn't a fancy site, but fairly flexible, forums etc. I really want it to be as useable as possible and where a lot of this information can be posted. akhalife at gmail.com is the best notification email for me. Matthew McDaniel www.akha.org The Akha Heritage Foundation. http://www.akha.org Akha Heritage Site. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Akhaweeklyjournal Discussion http://groups.yahoo.com/group/akha Donate Via Credit Card Paypal: https://www.paypal.com/xclick/business=akha%40akha.org PO Box 6073 Salem, OR. 97304 USA. Yahoo! Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, & more on new and used cars. .:. André Cramblit: andre.p.cramblit.86 at alum.dartmouth.org is the Operations Director Northern California Indian Development Council NCIDC (http://www.ncidc.org) is a non-profit that meets the development needs of American Indians To subscribe to a news letter of interest to Natives send an email to: IndigenousNewsNetwork-subscribe at topica.com or go to: http:// www.topica.com/lists/IndigenousNewsNetwork/subscribe/?location=listinfo -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From coyotez at UOREGON.EDU Mon Jan 30 19:17:12 2006 From: coyotez at UOREGON.EDU (David Lewis) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 11:17:12 -0800 Subject: Affordable digital recorder advice In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Nicholas, I checked out the first website mentioned and they wrote this as to an archival quality format "For audio, use WAV format." Coincidentally, I was at Best Buy last night and looked over their selection and chose the lower end of the higher end devices, the WS-100. It is supposed to transfer directly into Microsoft WMA format to the computer. I'm pretty sure I can then convert it to WAV format either with Windows Media player or ITunes. Any advice here? the device cost $100. the next higher device was $149.00. David Lewis Nicholas Thieberger wrote: > --> > Just to add to this thread from an archival perspective. If you are > recording unique things that you want to be available to generations > to come then you need to think about the format of what you are > recording and whether it will endure. Olympus and other small (and > cheap, unfortunately) recorders do not record in archival formats. > > For a summary of the issues around longterm storage of recorded > material and endangered languages you could look at > http://emeld.org/school/index.html. > > There was a discussion of recorders on the RNLD list and if you go to > the archive of the RNLD list, here: > http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?S1=resource-network-linguistic-diversity > and search for 'flash' and 'recorder' you will get some useful info > > A summary item is here: http://linguistlist.org/issues/16/16-2710.html > > All the best, > > Nick Thieberger > > At 7:36 AM -0700 30/1/06, Mia Kalish wrote: > >> Jan & all, >> >> I have been using Olympus digital recorders for years now. They have 3 >> quality settings (low, medium, & high) and 2 recording modes (one for >> meetings, one for one-to-one). The ones I buy are about $99. I >> recently got >> a Sony refurb unit for $32 at e-cost.com. >> >> I didn't read the thread about recorders, because I'm really happy with >> mine, and I had shared about it before. > >> Mia > > >-- > > > Project Manager > PARADISEC > Department of Linguistics and Applied Linguistics > University of Melbourne, Vic 3010 > Australia > > nicholas.thieberger at paradisec.org.au > Ph 61 (0)3 8344 5185 > > PARADISEC > Pacific And Regional Archive for Digital Sources in Endangered Cultures > http://paradisec.org.au > From thien at UNIMELB.EDU.AU Mon Jan 30 19:30:15 2006 From: thien at UNIMELB.EDU.AU (Nicholas Thieberger) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 06:30:15 +1100 Subject: Affordable digital recorder advice In-Reply-To: <43DE6638.3030507@uoregon.edu> Message-ID: David, If it does not record in WAV format then it is not archival. |If it records in a compressed form like WMA, mp3, or others, and then converts to WAV it means the actual recording has already lost lots of the signal. The m-audio microtrack records to WAV and is around US$300 and is not too bad, it has some problem with preamps. Nick At 11:17 AM -0800 30/1/06, David Lewis wrote: >Hi Nicholas, >I checked out the first website mentioned and they wrote this as to >an archival quality format "For audio, use WAV > format." >Coincidentally, I was at Best Buy last night and looked over their >selection and chose the lower end of the higher end devices, the >WS-100. It is supposed to transfer directly into Microsoft WMA >format to the computer. I'm pretty sure I can then convert it to WAV >format either with Windows Media player or ITunes. Any advice here? >the device cost $100. the next higher device was $149.00. >David Lewis > >Nicholas Thieberger wrote: > >>--> >>Just to add to this thread from an archival perspective. If you are >>recording unique things that you want to be available to >>generations to come then you need to think about the format of what >>you are recording and whether it will endure. Olympus and other >>small (and cheap, unfortunately) recorders do not record in >>archival formats. >> >>For a summary of the issues around longterm storage of recorded >>material and endangered languages you could look at >>http://emeld.org/school/index.html. >> >>There was a discussion of recorders on the RNLD list and if you go >>to the archive of the RNLD list, here: >>http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?S1=resource-network-linguistic-diversity >>and search for 'flash' and 'recorder' you will get some useful info >> >>A summary item is here: http://linguistlist.org/issues/16/16-2710.html >> >>All the best, >> >>Nick Thieberger >> >>At 7:36 AM -0700 30/1/06, Mia Kalish wrote: >> >>>Jan & all, >>> >>>I have been using Olympus digital recorders for years now. They have 3 >>>quality settings (low, medium, & high) and 2 recording modes (one for >>>meetings, one for one-to-one). The ones I buy are about $99. I recently got >>>a Sony refurb unit for $32 at e-cost.com. >>> >>>I didn't read the thread about recorders, because I'm really happy with >>>mine, and I had shared about it before. >> >>>Mia >> >> >>-- >> >>Project Manager >>PARADISEC >>Department of Linguistics and Applied Linguistics >>University of Melbourne, Vic 3010 >>Australia >> >>nicholas.thieberger at paradisec.org.au >>Ph 61 (0)3 8344 5185 >> >>PARADISEC >>Pacific And Regional Archive for Digital Sources in Endangered Cultures >>http://paradisec.org.au -- Project Manager PARADISEC Department of Linguistics and Applied Linguistics University of Melbourne, Vic 3010 Australia nicholas.thieberger at paradisec.org.au Ph 61 (0)3 8344 5185 PARADISEC Pacific And Regional Archive for Digital Sources in Endangered Cultures http://paradisec.org.au From MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US Mon Jan 30 20:18:40 2006 From: MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US (Mia Kalish) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 13:18:40 -0700 Subject: Affordable digital recorder advice In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I think there are a few steps missing here. First, and maybe this was discussed in the original thread, the sampling rate is more critical than the format. High sampling rates record more data and take up more space. Thus you can record less before you have to move the recordings to a more dense medium. Low sampling rates record less data, and take up less space. The recorder direction is also important, with unidirectional being more forgiving for voice recordings than omnidirectional. A good omnidirectional mike will pick up the elks outside in the field across the road (guess how I know). Then, if you want archival storage, you need archival media. Because I move my stuff around, from computer locations to website, I don't worry about storing my stuff in an archive where only a few people will have access. Because I move digitally, I don't have to worry about data loss due to multiple analog copies. The error correction is good enough so that there is no effective loss. Has there been any discussion about the frequency of the human voice (I assume because Jan wrote the message we are talking voice & language recording, not music)? Human speech ranges from a low of about 100 HZ to a high of about 5000 Hz, with the most commonly cited range being 300-3000 Hz. This isn't to say that sopranos can't make higher frequency sounds, nor bass voices lower frequency sounds, it just means that most people speak in that range, and so a recorder that is optimized for that range will be better for voice recording, especially Elders speaking . . . which I assume is what we are talking about here. I also haven't seen any discussion about sound editing. I always edit my recordings; usually there is more dead space than makes the response nice for people, sometimes not enough, so I add or subtract so the response feels nice. Sometimes I have volume issues; some people record too loudly, in which case I have usually lost the top end because of clipping, and sometimes it is too soft, and I can correct by digitally enhancing. Finally, I haven't heard any digital recording that has the warmth of analog recording, but small digital recorders are easy to carry around, and we found them to be unobtrusive when working with people. People tend to forget they are there (the little recorders) and so they are less stressed, and when they relax is what is now a comfortable situation, there is less stress and strain, and more richness in their speaking voices. I think this takes us to FinallyPartB: If your goal is merely to record the spoken word and stash it somewhere, then probably you don't care much about whether the speaker is stressed or not, because your goal is just to get THE WORD. On the other hand, if your goal is to use the recordings for language revitalization, like I do, and like Jan is working towards, then you care a great deal about richness, inflection, rhythm, and comfort. Mia _____ From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Nicholas Thieberger Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 12:01 PM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [ILAT] Affordable digital recorder advice Just to add to this thread from an archival perspective. If you are recording unique things that you want to be available to generations to come then you need to think about the format of what you are recording and whether it will endure. Olympus and other small (and cheap, unfortunately) recorders do not record in archival formats. For a summary of the issues around longterm storage of recorded material and endangered languages you could look at http://emeld.org/school/index.html. There was a discussion of recorders on the RNLD list and if you go to the archive of the RNLD list, here: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?S1=resource-network-linguistic-d iversity and search for 'flash' and 'recorder' you will get some useful info A summary item is here: http://linguistlist.org/issues/16/16-2710.html All the best, Nick Thieberger At 7:36 AM -0700 30/1/06, Mia Kalish wrote: Jan & all, I have been using Olympus digital recorders for years now. They have 3 quality settings (low, medium, & high) and 2 recording modes (one for meetings, one for one-to-one). The ones I buy are about $99. I recently got a Sony refurb unit for $32 at e-cost.com. I didn't read the thread about recorders, because I'm really happy with mine, and I had shared about it before. Mia -- Project Manager PARADISEC Department of Linguistics and Applied Linguistics University of Melbourne, Vic 3010 Australia nicholas.thieberger at paradisec.org.au Ph 61 (0)3 8344 5185 PARADISEC Pacific And Regional Archive for Digital Sources in Endangered Cultures http://paradisec.org.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jtucker at STARBAND.NET Tue Jan 31 03:26:42 2006 From: jtucker at STARBAND.NET (Jan Tucker) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 22:26:42 -0500 Subject: Affordable digital recorder advise. Message-ID: Mia, thanks for the tips, and the e-cost.com will be something I want to check out. Working really hard, but hope to talk more to you soon. Six online courses in progress, two just started. I've learned to make quizzes with moodle courseware while my laptop is in the shop and I don't have access to hotpotatoe program. Email me off list, let me know how your classe is going. Jan Tucker ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mia Kalish" To: Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 9:36 AM Subject: Re: [ILAT] Affordable digital recorder advise. > Jan & all, > > I have been using Olympus digital recorders for years now. They have 3 > quality settings (low, medium, & high) and 2 recording modes (one for > meetings, one for one-to-one). The ones I buy are about $99. I recently > got > a Sony refurb unit for $32 at e-cost.com. > > I didn't read the thread about recorders, because I'm really happy with > mine, and I had shared about it before. > > Mia > > -----Original Message----- > From: Indigenous Languages and Technology > [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] > On Behalf Of Jan Tucker > Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 1:01 PM > To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > Subject: [ILAT] Affordable digital recorder advise. > > List members, > > Excuse me if this topic has already come up. After reading about Thornton > Media's devise and looking at it's price tag, I realized that most > educators > > like myself might no be able to afford it and wondered what experienced > preservationists are using to record and digitize language in a field > setting. > > Thank you in advance for any advise, > > Jan > > "THORNTON MEDIA, INC. ( HTTP://WWW.NDNTV.COM ) IS THE ONLY LANGUAGE TOOL > COMPANY IN THE WORLD DEVOTED TO NATIVE AMERICAN LANGUAGES. > http://i-newswire.com/pr54795.html" > From jtucker at STARBAND.NET Tue Jan 31 14:44:22 2006 From: jtucker at STARBAND.NET (Jan Tucker) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 09:44:22 -0500 Subject: Affordable digital recorder advice Message-ID: Thank you all for the information you provided about affordable digital recorders. I'm looking at this one right now. Yes, I'm using it for language revitalization, and would like the best possible quality and least degredation. I have about 100 to spend on the devise and the accessories such as a microphone. Olympus VN-960PC Digital Voice Recorder, with LCD Display - Built-in 128MB Flash Memory and PC Link Any further comments would be welcome. Here is a link with specifications. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=389757&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation#Recording In recording format they say ADPCM (Adaptive Differential Pulse code Modulation)(WAV on PC). Can I assume then this is a .wav format recorder? Thank you, Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicholas Thieberger" To: Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 2:30 PM Subject: Re: [ILAT] Affordable digital recorder advice > David, > > If it does not record in WAV format then it is not archival. |If it > records in a compressed form like WMA, mp3, or others, and then > converts to WAV it means the actual recording has already lost lots > of the signal. The m-audio microtrack records to WAV and is around > US$300 and is not too bad, it has some problem with preamps. > > Nick > > At 11:17 AM -0800 30/1/06, David Lewis wrote: >>Hi Nicholas, >>I checked out the first website mentioned and they wrote this as to >>an archival quality format "For audio, use WAV >> format." >>Coincidentally, I was at Best Buy last night and looked over their >>selection and chose the lower end of the higher end devices, the >>WS-100. It is supposed to transfer directly into Microsoft WMA >>format to the computer. I'm pretty sure I can then convert it to WAV >>format either with Windows Media player or ITunes. Any advice here? >>the device cost $100. the next higher device was $149.00. >>David Lewis >> >>Nicholas Thieberger wrote: >> >>>--> >>>Just to add to this thread from an archival perspective. If you are >>>recording unique things that you want to be available to >>>generations to come then you need to think about the format of what >>>you are recording and whether it will endure. Olympus and other >>>small (and cheap, unfortunately) recorders do not record in >>>archival formats. >>> >>>For a summary of the issues around longterm storage of recorded >>>material and endangered languages you could look at >>>http://emeld.org/school/index.html. >>> >>>There was a discussion of recorders on the RNLD list and if you go >>>to the archive of the RNLD list, here: >>>http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?S1=resource-network-linguistic-diversity >>>and search for 'flash' and 'recorder' you will get some useful info >>> >>>A summary item is here: http://linguistlist.org/issues/16/16-2710.html >>> >>>All the best, >>> >>>Nick Thieberger >>> >>>At 7:36 AM -0700 30/1/06, Mia Kalish wrote: >>> >>>>Jan & all, >>>> >>>>I have been using Olympus digital recorders for years now. They have 3 >>>>quality settings (low, medium, & high) and 2 recording modes (one for >>>>meetings, one for one-to-one). The ones I buy are about $99. I recently got >>>>a Sony refurb unit for $32 at e-cost.com. >>>> >>>>I didn't read the thread about recorders, because I'm really happy with >>>>mine, and I had shared about it before. >>> >>>>Mia >>> >>> >>>-- >>> >>>Project Manager >>>PARADISEC >>>Department of Linguistics and Applied Linguistics >>>University of Melbourne, Vic 3010 >>>Australia >>> >>>nicholas.thieberger at paradisec.org.au >>>Ph 61 (0)3 8344 5185 >>> >>>PARADISEC >>>Pacific And Regional Archive for Digital Sources in Endangered Cultures >>>http://paradisec.org.au > > > -- > Project Manager > PARADISEC > Department of Linguistics and Applied Linguistics > University of Melbourne, Vic 3010 > Australia > > nicholas.thieberger at paradisec.org.au > Ph 61 (0)3 8344 5185 > > PARADISEC > Pacific And Regional Archive for Digital Sources in Endangered Cultures > http://paradisec.org.au > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US Tue Jan 31 14:58:23 2006 From: MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US (Mia Kalish) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 07:58:23 -0700 Subject: Affordable digital recorder advice In-Reply-To: <01c301c62674$d7a0a890$3dd23f94@LOCALSERVER> Message-ID: I have this particular one. I have 2 Olympus models, actually. They work well because you can configure them to download automatically when you connect them. I don't like the fact that the default folders are buried in the Programs directory, but after a while, you get used to it. All the files come in in .wav format. If you are recording individuals, make sure you are not set to Meeting mode. As for ADPCM, you might find this link helpful: http://telecom.tbi.net/digadpcm.htm It is delightfully technical, with pictures. You will also find lots of material if you search for the expansion. These algorigthms are important because you are ALWAYS converting Analog to Digital when you are dealing with streaming events like voice. Mia _____ From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Jan Tucker Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 7:44 AM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [ILAT] Affordable digital recorder advice Thank you all for the information you provided about affordable digital recorders. I'm looking at this one right now. Yes, I'm using it for language revitalization, and would like the best possible quality and least degredation. I have about 100 to spend on the devise and the accessories such as a microphone. Olympus VN-960PC Digital Voice Recorder, with LCD Display - Built-in 128MB Flash Memory and PC Link Any further comments would be welcome. Here is a link with specifications. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&s ku=389757&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation#Recording In recording format they say ADPCM (Adaptive Differential Pulse code Modulation)(WAV on PC). Can I assume then this is a .wav format recorder? Thank you, Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicholas Thieberger" < thien at UNIMELB.EDU.AU> To: < ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU> Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 2:30 PM Subject: Re: [ILAT] Affordable digital recorder advice > David, > > If it does not record in WAV format then it is not archival. |If it > records in a compressed form like WMA, mp3, or others, and then > converts to WAV it means the actual recording has already lost lots > of the signal. The m-audio microtrack records to WAV and is around > US$300 and is not too bad, it has some problem with preamps. > > Nick > > At 11:17 AM -0800 30/1/06, David Lewis wrote: >>Hi Nicholas, >>I checked out the first website mentioned and they wrote this as to >>an archival quality format "For audio, use WAV >>< http://emeld.org/school/glossary.html#wav> format." >>Coincidentally, I was at Best Buy last night and looked over their >>selection and chose the lower end of the higher end devices, the >>WS-100. It is supposed to transfer directly into Microsoft WMA >>format to the computer. I'm pretty sure I can then convert it to WAV >>format either with Windows Media player or ITunes. Any advice here? >>the device cost $100. the next higher device was $149.00. >>David Lewis >> >>Nicholas Thieberger wrote: >> >>>--> >>>Just to add to this thread from an archival perspective. If you are >>>recording unique things that you want to be available to >>>generations to come then you need to think about the format of what >>>you are recording and whether it will endure. Olympus and other >>>small (and cheap, unfortunately) recorders do not record in >>>archival formats. >>> >>>For a summary of the issues around longterm storage of recorded >>>material and endangered languages you could look at >>>http://emeld.org/school/index.html. >>> >>>There was a discussion of recorders on the RNLD list and if you go >>>to the archive of the RNLD list, here: >>>http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?S1=resource-network-linguisti c-diversity >>>and search for 'flash' and 'recorder' you will get some useful info >>> >>>A summary item is here: http://linguistlist.org/issues/16/16-2710.html >>> >>>All the best, >>> >>>Nick Thieberger >>> >>>At 7:36 AM -0700 30/1/06, Mia Kalish wrote: >>> >>>>Jan & all, >>>> >>>>I have been using Olympus digital recorders for years now. They have 3 >>>>quality settings (low, medium, & high) and 2 recording modes (one for >>>>meetings, one for one-to-one). The ones I buy are about $99. I recently got >>>>a Sony refurb unit for $32 at e-cost.com. >>>> >>>>I didn't read the thread about recorders, because I'm really happy with >>>>mine, and I had shared about it before. >>> >>>>Mia >>> >>> >>>-- >>> >>>Project Manager >>>PARADISEC >>>Department of Linguistics and Applied Linguistics >>>University of Melbourne, Vic 3010 >>>Australia >>> >>>nicholas.thieberger at paradisec.org.au >>>Ph 61 (0)3 8344 5185 >>> >>>PARADISEC >>>Pacific And Regional Archive for Digital Sources in Endangered Cultures >>>http://paradisec.org.au > > > -- > Project Manager > PARADISEC > Department of Linguistics and Applied Linguistics > University of Melbourne, Vic 3010 > Australia > > nicholas.thieberger at paradisec.org.au > Ph 61 (0)3 8344 5185 > > PARADISEC > Pacific And Regional Archive for Digital Sources in Endangered Cultures > http://paradisec.org.au > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From susan.penfield at GMAIL.COM Tue Jan 31 14:58:32 2006 From: susan.penfield at GMAIL.COM (Susan Penfield) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 07:58:32 -0700 Subject: Affordable digital recorder advice In-Reply-To: <01c301c62674$d7a0a890$3dd23f94@LOCALSERVER> Message-ID: Mia, Jan and all, Just a thought here -- It seems to me that we might not want to distinguish between the uses for revitalization and documentation. Good quality is needed on both fronts since they really play into each other. I think that ease of use is important (for some of us less techie folks), and certainly cost is an issue for many, but getting good archival quality doesn't necessarily mean giving up all the other things Mia referred and,increasingly, those of us who do revitalization work need to be mindful that many of those recordings may end up as the only documentation of the language. Best, Susan On 1/31/06, Jan Tucker wrote: > > Thank you all for the information you provided about affordable digital > recorders. I'm looking at this one right now. > Yes, I'm using it for language revitalization, and would like the best > possible quality and least degredation. I have about 100 to spend on the > devise and the accessories such as a microphone. > > Olympus VN-960PC Digital Voice Recorder, with LCD Display - Built-in > 128MB Flash Memory and PC Link Any further comments would be welcome. > Here is a link with specifications. > > > http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=389757&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation#Recording > > In recording format they say ADPCM (Adaptive Differential Pulse code > Modulation)(WAV on PC). Can I assume then this is a .wav format recorder? > Thank you, > > Jan > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicholas Thieberger" < > thien at UNIMELB.EDU.AU> > To: > Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 2:30 PM > Subject: Re: [ILAT] Affordable digital recorder advice > > > David, > > > > If it does not record in WAV format then it is not archival. |If it > > records in a compressed form like WMA, mp3, or others, and then > > converts to WAV it means the actual recording has already lost lots > > of the signal. The m-audio microtrack records to WAV and is around > > US$300 and is not too bad, it has some problem with preamps. > > > > Nick > > > > At 11:17 AM -0800 30/1/06, David Lewis wrote: > >>Hi Nicholas, > >>I checked out the first website mentioned and they wrote this as to > >>an archival quality format "For audio, use WAV > >> format." > >>Coincidentally, I was at Best Buy last night and looked over their > >>selection and chose the lower end of the higher end devices, the > >>WS-100. It is supposed to transfer directly into Microsoft WMA > >>format to the computer. I'm pretty sure I can then convert it to WAV > >>format either with Windows Media player or ITunes. Any advice here? > >>the device cost $100. the next higher device was $149.00. > >>David Lewis > >> > >>Nicholas Thieberger wrote: > >> > >>>--> > >>>Just to add to this thread from an archival perspective. If you are > >>>recording unique things that you want to be available to > >>>generations to come then you need to think about the format of what > >>>you are recording and whether it will endure. Olympus and other > >>>small (and cheap, unfortunately) recorders do not record in > >>>archival formats. > >>> > >>>For a summary of the issues around longterm storage of recorded > >>>material and endangered languages you could look at > >>>http://emeld.org/school/index.html. > >>> > >>>There was a discussion of recorders on the RNLD list and if you go > >>>to the archive of the RNLD list, here: > >>> > http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?S1=resource-network-linguistic-diversity > >>>and search for 'flash' and 'recorder' you will get some useful info > >>> > >>>A summary item is here: http://linguistlist.org/issues/16/16-2710.html > >>> > >>>All the best, > >>> > >>>Nick Thieberger > >>> > >>>At 7:36 AM -0700 30/1/06, Mia Kalish wrote: > >>> > >>>>Jan & all, > >>>> > >>>>I have been using Olympus digital recorders for years now. They have 3 > >>>>quality settings (low, medium, & high) and 2 recording modes (one for > >>>>meetings, one for one-to-one). The ones I buy are about $99. I > recently got > >>>>a Sony refurb unit for $32 at e-cost.com. > >>>> > >>>>I didn't read the thread about recorders, because I'm really happy > with > >>>>mine, and I had shared about it before. > >>> > >>>>Mia > >>> > >>> > >>>-- > >>> > >>>Project Manager > >>>PARADISEC > >>>Department of Linguistics and Applied Linguistics > >>>University of Melbourne, Vic 3010 > >>>Australia > >>> > >>>nicholas.thieberger at paradisec.org.au > >>>Ph 61 (0)3 8344 5185 > >>> > >>>PARADISEC > >>>Pacific And Regional Archive for Digital Sources in Endangered Cultures > >>>http://paradisec.org.au > > > > > > -- > > Project Manager > > PARADISEC > > Department of Linguistics and Applied Linguistics > > University of Melbourne, Vic 3010 > > Australia > > > > nicholas.thieberger at paradisec.org.au > > Ph 61 (0)3 8344 5185 > > > > PARADISEC > > Pacific And Regional Archive for Digital Sources in Endangered Cultures > > http://paradisec.org.au > > > -- Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. Department of English Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program American Indian Language Development Institute Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US Tue Jan 31 16:18:17 2006 From: MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US (Mia Kalish) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 09:18:17 -0700 Subject: Affordable digital recorder advice In-Reply-To: <39a679e20601310658y152bc3f8g4d3f109e610b8e0b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi, Susan, I didn't read the whole main thread, but I thought I was perceiving a recommendation for "recording studio quality" for archival recording. Bringing people into a sound controlled studio is very different from working in communities where we create tons and tons of material for use by the community. When we were doing this initially 4-5 years ago now, Depree and I created a whole checklist of things we wanted to be able to do, with a focus of working in the community. For us, the considerations ranked approximately as follows: 1. Elder comfort 2. Affordable by community members 3. High quality recording 4. Convenience 5. High portability 6. Battery-powered 7. Ease of use, for us & for community members Our goal was to work with communities to show them how they could take a major hand in designing and developing their own resources. As such, many of our considerations incorporated the needs of the Community in our assessment of recorders. Sophisticated, expensive recorders wouldn't be appropriate; special recording rooms and devices would take us out of the community and would also be difficult to use in places where people live. We didn't want to use our hosts' electricity; for some people, this is a financial hardship, even for small requirements. We were also prepared for places where there is no electricity; or where the travel to and from the locale is challenging, as for example, the path down the Grand Canyon to the Havapai. So we included all these considerations in our analysis. Mia _____ From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Susan Penfield Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 7:59 AM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [ILAT] Affordable digital recorder advice Mia, Jan and all, Just a thought here -- It seems to me that we might not want to distinguish between the uses for revitalization and documentation. Good quality is needed on both fronts since they really play into each other. I think that ease of use is important (for some of us less techie folks), and certainly cost is an issue for many, but getting good archival quality doesn't necessarily mean giving up all the other things Mia referred and,increasingly, those of us who do revitalization work need to be mindful that many of those recordings may end up as the only documentation of the language. Best, Susan On 1/31/06, Jan Tucker wrote: Thank you all for the information you provided about affordable digital recorders. I'm looking at this one right now. Yes, I'm using it for language revitalization, and would like the best possible quality and least degredation. I have about 100 to spend on the devise and the accessories such as a microphone. Olympus VN-960PC Digital Voice Recorder, with LCD Display - Built-in 128MB Flash Memory and PC Link Any further comments would be welcome. Here is a link with specifications. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&s ku=389757&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation#Recording In recording format they say ADPCM (Adaptive Differential Pulse code Modulation)(WAV on PC). Can I assume then this is a .wav format recorder? Thank you, Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicholas Thieberger" < thien at UNIMELB.EDU.AU > To: < ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 2:30 PM Subject: Re: [ILAT] Affordable digital recorder advice > David, > > If it does not record in WAV format then it is not archival. |If it > records in a compressed form like WMA, mp3, or others, and then > converts to WAV it means the actual recording has already lost lots > of the signal. The m-audio microtrack records to WAV and is around > US$300 and is not too bad, it has some problem with preamps. > > Nick > > At 11:17 AM -0800 30/1/06, David Lewis wrote: >>Hi Nicholas, >>I checked out the first website mentioned and they wrote this as to >>an archival quality format "For audio, use WAV >>< http://emeld.org/school/glossary.html#wav > format." >>Coincidentally, I was at Best Buy last night and looked over their >>selection and chose the lower end of the higher end devices, the >>WS-100. It is supposed to transfer directly into Microsoft WMA >>format to the computer. I'm pretty sure I can then convert it to WAV >>format either with Windows Media player or ITunes. Any advice here? >>the device cost $100. the next higher device was $149.00. >>David Lewis >> >>Nicholas Thieberger wrote: >> >>>--> >>>Just to add to this thread from an archival perspective. If you are >>>recording unique things that you want to be available to >>>generations to come then you need to think about the format of what >>>you are recording and whether it will endure. Olympus and other >>>small (and cheap, unfortunately) recorders do not record in >>>archival formats. >>> >>>For a summary of the issues around longterm storage of recorded >>>material and endangered languages you could look at >>>http://emeld.org/school/index.html. >>> >>>There was a discussion of recorders on the RNLD list and if you go >>>to the archive of the RNLD list, here: >>>http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?S1=resource-network-linguisti c-diversity >>>and search for 'flash' and 'recorder' you will get some useful info >>> >>>A summary item is here: http://linguistlist.org/issues/16/16-2710.html >>> >>>All the best, >>> >>>Nick Thieberger >>> >>>At 7:36 AM -0700 30/1/06, Mia Kalish wrote: >>> >>>>Jan & all, >>>> >>>>I have been using Olympus digital recorders for years now. They have 3 >>>>quality settings (low, medium, & high) and 2 recording modes (one for >>>>meetings, one for one-to-one). The ones I buy are about $99. I recently got >>>>a Sony refurb unit for $32 at e-cost.com. >>>> >>>>I didn't read the thread about recorders, because I'm really happy with >>>>mine, and I had shared about it before. >>> >>>>Mia >>> >>> >>>-- >>> >>>Project Manager >>>PARADISEC >>>Department of Linguistics and Applied Linguistics >>>University of Melbourne, Vic 3010 >>>Australia >>> >>>nicholas.thieberger at paradisec.org.au >>>Ph 61 (0)3 8344 5185 >>> >>>PARADISEC >>>Pacific And Regional Archive for Digital Sources in Endangered Cultures >>>http://paradisec.org.au > > > -- > Project Manager > PARADISEC > Department of Linguistics and Applied Linguistics > University of Melbourne, Vic 3010 > Australia > > nicholas.thieberger at paradisec.org.au > Ph 61 (0)3 8344 5185 > > PARADISEC > Pacific And Regional Archive for Digital Sources in Endangered Cultures > http://paradisec.org.au > -- Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. Department of English Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program American Indian Language Development Institute Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From keola at LEOKI.UHH.HAWAII.EDU Tue Jan 31 17:59:01 2006 From: keola at LEOKI.UHH.HAWAII.EDU (Keola Donaghy) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 07:59:01 -1000 Subject: Affordable digital recorder advice In-Reply-To: <001101c625da$5fee7880$6401a8c0@LFPMia> Message-ID: Aloha e Mia, I'd like to add a couple of thoughts, as some who as worked in a recording studios, though lacking experience in field recording... I've frequently heard the "warmth" of analog recording touted by some artists and engineers, though when I recorded people in both formats simultaneously and played them back, nearly all preferred the digital. For me the added clarity of digital, as well as lack of hiss and the artifacts added by Dolby and other noise reduction schemes, make my ears happier. When looking at digital recording and frequencies, you also need to take into account the Nyquist limit, which states your sampling rate must be twice that of the highest frequency that you wish to record. While this is less of an issue with spoken voice than music, you should try to locate equipment that can record at a frequency rate twice that of spoken voice. It's not really an issue these days; most will record up to 22k-44k, though devices designed specifically for spoken voice may not. What you will hear if you record something that is in the frequency range beyond that limit is a flanging-like effect in those ranges. While frequencies below the limit are not affected, and can be a bit annoying to hear that effect hovering over the entire recording. HTH, Keola Indigenous Languages and Technology ma Monday, January 30, 2006 ma 10:18 AM ua käkau ‘o -1000: >First, and maybe this was discussed in the original thread, the sampling >rate is more critical than the format. High sampling rates record more >data and take up more space. Thus you can record less before you have to >move the recordings to a more dense medium. Low sampling rates record >less data, and take up less space. > >The recorder direction is also important, with unidirectional being more >forgiving for voice recordings than omnidirectional. A good >omnidirectional mike will pick up the elks outside in the field across >the road (guess how I know). > >Then, if you want archival storage, you need archival media. Because I >move my stuff around, from computer locations to website, I don’t worry >about storing my stuff in an archive where only a few people will have >access. Because I move digitally, I don’t have to worry about data loss >due to multiple analog copies. The error correction is good enough so >that there is no effective loss. > >Has there been any discussion about the frequency of the human voice (I >assume because Jan wrote the message we are talking voice & language >recording, not music)? Human speech ranges from a low of about 100 HZ to >a high of about 5000 Hz, with the most commonly cited range being >300-3000 Hz. This isn’t to say that sopranos can’t make higher frequency >sounds, nor bass voices lower frequency sounds, it just means that most >people speak in that range, and so a recorder that is optimized for that >range will be better for voice recording, especially Elders speaking . . >. which I assume is what we are talking about here. > >I also haven’t seen any discussion about sound editing. I always edit my >recordings; usually there is more dead space than makes the response nice >for people, sometimes not enough, so I add or subtract so the response >feels nice. Sometimes I have volume issues; some people record too >loudly, in which case I have usually lost the top end because of >clipping, and sometimes it is too soft, and I can correct by digitally >enhancing. > >Finally, I haven’t heard any digital recording that has the warmth of >analog recording, but small digital recorders are easy to carry around, >and we found them to be unobtrusive when working with people. People tend >to forget they are there (the little recorders) and so they are less >stressed, and when they relax is what is now a comfortable situation, >there is less stress and strain, and more richness in their speaking >voices. > >I think this takes us to FinallyPartB: If your goal is merely to record >the spoken word and stash it somewhere, then probably you don’t care much >about whether the speaker is stressed or not, because your goal is just >to get THE WORD. On the other hand, if your goal is to use the recordings >for language revitalization, like I do, and like Jan is working towards, >then you care a great deal about richness, inflection, rhythm, and >comfort. ======================================================================= Keola Donaghy Assistant Professor of Hawaiian Studies Ka Haka 'Ula O Ke'elikolani keola at leoki.uhh.hawaii.edu University of Hawai'i at Hilo http://www2.hawaii.edu/~donaghy/ ======================================================================= From susan.penfield at GMAIL.COM Tue Jan 31 18:42:05 2006 From: susan.penfield at GMAIL.COM (Susan Penfield) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 11:42:05 -0700 Subject: Affordable digital recorder advice In-Reply-To: <004a01c62681$f3ba5730$6401a8c0@LFPMia> Message-ID: Mia, I couldn't agree more, because we have found all of the same conditions/recommendations. But the use of high quality equipment, in the field, still yields much better and much longer lasting recordings and should be considered. We had some problems just this weekend with a high end recorder, just because it was not initially easy to use. That led us to rethink what equipment is best and/or how much more training is needed. Guess all I'm saying is that there are lots of options now (I have also used your same recorder) and that making more of an investment in high quality is worth it in the long run. We are also in the business of creating tons of stuff for the community and are putting that responsibility into the hands of community members -- so I really understand what you are saying. Nevertheless, that makes the quality of the recordings even more valuable and we should all be striving not just for lots of stuff but for the best possible stuff, given the recording conditions. Best, Susan On 1/31/06, Mia Kalish wrote: > > Hi, Susan, > > > > I didn't read the whole main thread, but I thought I was perceiving a > recommendation for "recording studio quality" for archival recording. > Bringing people into a sound controlled studio is very different from > working in communities where we create tons and tons of material for use by > the community. > > > > When we were doing this initially 4-5 years ago now, Depree and I created > a whole checklist of things we wanted to be able to do, with a focus of > working in the community. For us, the considerations ranked approximately as > follows: > > 1. Elder comfort > > 2. Affordable by community members > > 3. High quality recording > > 4. Convenience > > 5. High portability > > 6. Battery-powered > > 7. Ease of use, for us & for community members > > > > Our goal was to work with communities to show them how they could take a > major hand in designing and developing their own resources. As such, many of > our considerations incorporated the needs of the Community in our assessment > of recorders. Sophisticated, expensive recorders wouldn't be appropriate; > special recording rooms and devices would take us out of the community and > would also be difficult to use in places where people live. We didn't want > to use our hosts' electricity; for some people, this is a financial > hardship, even for small requirements. We were also prepared for places > where there is no electricity; or where the travel to and from the locale is > challenging, as for example, the path down the Grand Canyon to the Havapai. > So we included all these considerations in our analysis. > > > > Mia > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto: > ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Susan Penfield > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 31, 2006 7:59 AM > *To:* ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > *Subject:* Re: [ILAT] Affordable digital recorder advice > > > > Mia, Jan and all, > Just a thought here -- It seems to me that we might not want to > distinguish between the uses for revitalization and documentation. Good > quality is needed on both fronts since they really play into each other. I > think that ease of use is important (for some of us less techie folks), and > certainly cost is an issue for many, but getting good archival quality > doesn't necessarily mean giving up all the other things Mia referred > and,increasingly, those of us who do revitalization work need to be mindful > that many of those recordings may end up as the only documentation of the > language. > Best, > Susan > > On 1/31/06, *Jan Tucker* < jtucker at starband.net> wrote: > > Thank you all for the information you provided about affordable digital > recorders. I'm looking at this one right now. > > > > Yes, I'm using it for language revitalization, and would like the best > possible quality and least degredation. I have about 100 to spend on the > devise and the accessories such as a microphone. > > > *Olympus* VN-960PC Digital Voice Recorder, with LCD Display - Built-in > 128MB Flash Memory and PC Link * * Any further comments would be welcome. > Here is a link with specifications. > > > > http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=389757&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation#Recording > > > > *In recording format they say ADPCM (Adaptive Differential Pulse code > Modulation)(WAV on PC). Can I assume then this is a .wav format recorder? > * > > Thank you, > > > > Jan > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Nicholas Thieberger" < thien at UNIMELB.EDU.AU > > > To: < ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > > > Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 2:30 PM > > Subject: Re: [ILAT] Affordable digital recorder advice > > > > > David, > > > > If it does not record in WAV format then it is not archival. |If it > > records in a compressed form like WMA, mp3, or others, and then > > converts to WAV it means the actual recording has already lost lots > > of the signal. The m-audio microtrack records to WAV and is around > > US$300 and is not too bad, it has some problem with preamps. > > > > Nick > > > > At 11:17 AM -0800 30/1/06, David Lewis wrote: > >>Hi Nicholas, > >>I checked out the first website mentioned and they wrote this as to > >>an archival quality format "For audio, use WAV > >>< http://emeld.org/school/glossary.html#wav > format." > >>Coincidentally, I was at Best Buy last night and looked over their > >>selection and chose the lower end of the higher end devices, the > >>WS-100. It is supposed to transfer directly into Microsoft WMA > >>format to the computer. I'm pretty sure I can then convert it to WAV > >>format either with Windows Media player or ITunes. Any advice here? > >>the device cost $100. the next higher device was $149.00. > >>David Lewis > >> > >>Nicholas Thieberger wrote: > >> > >>>--> > >>>Just to add to this thread from an archival perspective. If you are > >>>recording unique things that you want to be available to > >>>generations to come then you need to think about the format of what > >>>you are recording and whether it will endure. Olympus and other > >>>small (and cheap, unfortunately) recorders do not record in > >>>archival formats. > >>> > >>>For a summary of the issues around longterm storage of recorded > >>>material and endangered languages you could look at > >>>http://emeld.org/school/index.html. > >>> > >>>There was a discussion of recorders on the RNLD list and if you go > >>>to the archive of the RNLD list, here: > >>>http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?S1=resource-network-linguistic-diversity > > >>>and search for 'flash' and 'recorder' you will get some useful info > >>> > >>>A summary item is here: http://linguistlist.org/issues/16/16-2710.html > >>> > >>>All the best, > >>> > >>>Nick Thieberger > >>> > >>>At 7:36 AM -0700 30/1/06, Mia Kalish wrote: > >>> > >>>>Jan & all, > >>>> > >>>>I have been using Olympus digital recorders for years now. They have 3 > > >>>>quality settings (low, medium, & high) and 2 recording modes (one for > >>>>meetings, one for one-to-one). The ones I buy are about $99. I > recently got > >>>>a Sony refurb unit for $32 at e-cost.com. > >>>> > >>>>I didn't read the thread about recorders, because I'm really happy > with > >>>>mine, and I had shared about it before. > >>> > >>>>Mia > >>> > >>> > >>>-- > >>> > >>>Project Manager > >>>PARADISEC > >>>Department of Linguistics and Applied Linguistics > >>>University of Melbourne, Vic 3010 > >>>Australia > >>> > >>> nicholas.thieberger at paradisec.org.au > >>>Ph 61 (0)3 8344 5185 > >>> > >>>PARADISEC > >>>Pacific And Regional Archive for Digital Sources in Endangered Cultures > > >>>http://paradisec.org.au > > > > > > -- > > Project Manager > > PARADISEC > > Department of Linguistics and Applied Linguistics > > University of Melbourne, Vic 3010 > > Australia > > > > nicholas.thieberger at paradisec.org.au > > Ph 61 (0)3 8344 5185 > > > > PARADISEC > > Pacific And Regional Archive for Digital Sources in Endangered Cultures > > http://paradisec.org.au > > > > > > > -- > Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. > > Department of English > Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics > and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program > American Indian Language Development Institute > Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 > -- Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. Department of English Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program American Indian Language Development Institute Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US Tue Jan 31 19:04:30 2006 From: MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US (Mia Kalish) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 12:04:30 -0700 Subject: Affordable digital recorder advice In-Reply-To: <39a679e20601311042u1e372f8fj72465a2130c96b60@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I guess the upshot of all this is that I don't think people should be made to feel bad because they can't afford high-end equipment. I loved Keola's musician's analysis. He's right about the Dolby hiss :-) And I agree that there are lots of recording options. But I think also what has come out of this discussion is that there are lots of considerations, lots of available technology, lots of things you can do with the recordings, and lots of people who will use the technology and the recordings. Keola mentioned sampling frequencies: # of bits is related to sampling size; it is also related to how fast materials will download. I've noticed that a lot of the sites I see don't seem to worry about how long it takes a sound to make it down to the listener. People also use Windows Media format which is InCreDibly SLOW. . . . (aaargh). Every time to open a sound, it has to open that high-graph interface. . . . Recently, I couldn't download the new Windows Media Player because there was something wrong with the signing in the internal configuration. So I could hear the Welsh on the BBS site. . . . Mia _____ From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Susan Penfield Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 11:42 AM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [ILAT] Affordable digital recorder advice Mia, I couldn't agree more, because we have found all of the same conditions/recommendations. But the use of high quality equipment, in the field, still yields much better and much longer lasting recordings and should be considered. We had some problems just this weekend with a high end recorder, just because it was not initially easy to use. That led us to rethink what equipment is best and/or how much more training is needed. Guess all I'm saying is that there are lots of options now (I have also used your same recorder) and that making more of an investment in high quality is worth it in the long run. We are also in the business of creating tons of stuff for the community and are putting that responsibility into the hands of community members -- so I really understand what you are saying. Nevertheless, that makes the quality of the recordings even more valuable and we should all be striving not just for lots of stuff but for the best possible stuff, given the recording conditions. Best, Susan On 1/31/06, Mia Kalish > wrote: Hi, Susan, I didn't read the whole main thread, but I thought I was perceiving a recommendation for "recording studio quality" for archival recording. Bringing people into a sound controlled studio is very different from working in communities where we create tons and tons of material for use by the community. When we were doing this initially 4-5 years ago now, Depree and I created a whole checklist of things we wanted to be able to do, with a focus of working in the community. For us, the considerations ranked approximately as follows: 1. Elder comfort 2. Affordable by community members 3. High quality recording 4. Convenience 5. High portability 6. Battery-powered 7. Ease of use, for us & for community members Our goal was to work with communities to show them how they could take a major hand in designing and developing their own resources. As such, many of our considerations incorporated the needs of the Community in our assessment of recorders. Sophisticated, expensive recorders wouldn't be appropriate; special recording rooms and devices would take us out of the community and would also be difficult to use in places where people live. We didn't want to use our hosts' electricity; for some people, this is a financial hardship, even for small requirements. We were also prepared for places where there is no electricity; or where the travel to and from the locale is challenging, as for example, the path down the Grand Canyon to the Havapai. So we included all these considerations in our analysis. Mia _____ From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Susan Penfield Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 7:59 AM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [ILAT] Affordable digital recorder advice Mia, Jan and all, Just a thought here -- It seems to me that we might not want to distinguish between the uses for revitalization and documentation. Good quality is needed on both fronts since they really play into each other. I think that ease of use is important (for some of us less techie folks), and certainly cost is an issue for many, but getting good archival quality doesn't necessarily mean giving up all the other things Mia referred and,increasingly, those of us who do revitalization work need to be mindful that many of those recordings may end up as the only documentation of the language. Best, Susan On 1/31/06, Jan Tucker < jtucker at starband.net > wrote: Thank you all for the information you provided about affordable digital recorders. I'm looking at this one right now. Yes, I'm using it for language revitalization, and would like the best possible quality and least degredation. I have about 100 to spend on the devise and the accessories such as a microphone. Olympus VN-960PC Digital Voice Recorder, with LCD Display - Built-in 128MB Flash Memory and PC Link Any further comments would be welcome. Here is a link with specifications. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&s ku=389757&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation#Recording In recording format they say ADPCM (Adaptive Differential Pulse code Modulation)(WAV on PC). Can I assume then this is a .wav format recorder? Thank you, Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicholas Thieberger" < thien at UNIMELB.EDU.AU > To: < ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 2:30 PM Subject: Re: [ILAT] Affordable digital recorder advice > David, > > If it does not record in WAV format then it is not archival. |If it > records in a compressed form like WMA, mp3, or others, and then > converts to WAV it means the actual recording has already lost lots > of the signal. The m-audio microtrack records to WAV and is around > US$300 and is not too bad, it has some problem with preamps. > > Nick > > At 11:17 AM -0800 30/1/06, David Lewis wrote: >>Hi Nicholas, >>I checked out the first website mentioned and they wrote this as to >>an archival quality format "For audio, use WAV >>< http://emeld.org/school/glossary.html#wav > format." >>Coincidentally, I was at Best Buy last night and looked over their >>selection and chose the lower end of the higher end devices, the >>WS-100. It is supposed to transfer directly into Microsoft WMA >>format to the computer. I'm pretty sure I can then convert it to WAV >>format either with Windows Media player or ITunes. Any advice here? >>the device cost $100. the next higher device was $149.00. >>David Lewis >> >>Nicholas Thieberger wrote: >> >>>--> >>>Just to add to this thread from an archival perspective. If you are >>>recording unique things that you want to be available to >>>generations to come then you need to think about the format of what >>>you are recording and whether it will endure. Olympus and other >>>small (and cheap, unfortunately) recorders do not record in >>>archival formats. >>> >>>For a summary of the issues around longterm storage of recorded >>>material and endangered languages you could look at >>>http://emeld.org/school/index.html. >>> >>>There was a discussion of recorders on the RNLD list and if you go >>>to the archive of the RNLD list, here: >>> http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?S1=resource-network-linguistic-d iversity >>>and search for 'flash' and 'recorder' you will get some useful info >>> >>>A summary item is here: http://linguistlist.org/issues/16/16-2710.html >>> >>>All the best, >>> >>>Nick Thieberger >>> >>>At 7:36 AM -0700 30/1/06, Mia Kalish wrote: >>> >>>>Jan & all, >>>> >>>>I have been using Olympus digital recorders for years now. They have 3 >>>>quality settings (low, medium, & high) and 2 recording modes (one for >>>>meetings, one for one-to-one). The ones I buy are about $99. I recently got >>>>a Sony refurb unit for $32 at e-cost.com . >>>> >>>>I didn't read the thread about recorders, because I'm really happy with >>>>mine, and I had shared about it before. >>> >>>>Mia >>> >>> >>>-- >>> >>>Project Manager >>>PARADISEC >>>Department of Linguistics and Applied Linguistics >>>University of Melbourne, Vic 3010 >>>Australia >>> >>> nicholas.thieberger at paradisec.org.au >>>Ph 61 (0)3 8344 5185 >>> >>>PARADISEC >>>Pacific And Regional Archive for Digital Sources in Endangered Cultures >>>http://paradisec.org.au > > > -- > Project Manager > PARADISEC > Department of Linguistics and Applied Linguistics > University of Melbourne, Vic 3010 > Australia > > nicholas.thieberger at paradisec.org.au > Ph 61 (0)3 8344 5185 > > PARADISEC > Pacific And Regional Archive for Digital Sources in Endangered Cultures > http://paradisec.org.au > -- Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. Department of English Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program American Indian Language Development Institute Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 -- Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. Department of English Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program American Indian Language Development Institute Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US Tue Jan 31 19:08:06 2006 From: MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US (Mia Kalish) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 12:08:06 -0700 Subject: Affordable digital recorder advice In-Reply-To: <39a679e20601311042u1e372f8fj72465a2130c96b60@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: PS: I just ordered a Lightscribe drive . . . painfully slow to create the label, beautiful results. (BenQ DW-1655 in a USB 2.0/Firewire external enclosure) . . . :-) :-) :-) Just in case anyone was starting to doubt my essential techie-ness there. And I am writing some of my recordings to the Lightscribe media :-) _____ From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Susan Penfield Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 11:42 AM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [ILAT] Affordable digital recorder advice Mia, I couldn't agree more, because we have found all of the same conditions/recommendations. But the use of high quality equipment, in the field, still yields much better and much longer lasting recordings and should be considered. We had some problems just this weekend with a high end recorder, just because it was not initially easy to use. That led us to rethink what equipment is best and/or how much more training is needed. Guess all I'm saying is that there are lots of options now (I have also used your same recorder) and that making more of an investment in high quality is worth it in the long run. We are also in the business of creating tons of stuff for the community and are putting that responsibility into the hands of community members -- so I really understand what you are saying. Nevertheless, that makes the quality of the recordings even more valuable and we should all be striving not just for lots of stuff but for the best possible stuff, given the recording conditions. Best, Susan On 1/31/06, Mia Kalish > wrote: Hi, Susan, I didn't read the whole main thread, but I thought I was perceiving a recommendation for "recording studio quality" for archival recording. Bringing people into a sound controlled studio is very different from working in communities where we create tons and tons of material for use by the community. When we were doing this initially 4-5 years ago now, Depree and I created a whole checklist of things we wanted to be able to do, with a focus of working in the community. For us, the considerations ranked approximately as follows: 1. Elder comfort 2. Affordable by community members 3. High quality recording 4. Convenience 5. High portability 6. Battery-powered 7. Ease of use, for us & for community members Our goal was to work with communities to show them how they could take a major hand in designing and developing their own resources. As such, many of our considerations incorporated the needs of the Community in our assessment of recorders. Sophisticated, expensive recorders wouldn't be appropriate; special recording rooms and devices would take us out of the community and would also be difficult to use in places where people live. We didn't want to use our hosts' electricity; for some people, this is a financial hardship, even for small requirements. We were also prepared for places where there is no electricity; or where the travel to and from the locale is challenging, as for example, the path down the Grand Canyon to the Havapai. So we included all these considerations in our analysis. Mia _____ From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Susan Penfield Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 7:59 AM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [ILAT] Affordable digital recorder advice Mia, Jan and all, Just a thought here -- It seems to me that we might not want to distinguish between the uses for revitalization and documentation. Good quality is needed on both fronts since they really play into each other. I think that ease of use is important (for some of us less techie folks), and certainly cost is an issue for many, but getting good archival quality doesn't necessarily mean giving up all the other things Mia referred and,increasingly, those of us who do revitalization work need to be mindful that many of those recordings may end up as the only documentation of the language. Best, Susan On 1/31/06, Jan Tucker < jtucker at starband.net > wrote: Thank you all for the information you provided about affordable digital recorders. I'm looking at this one right now. Yes, I'm using it for language revitalization, and would like the best possible quality and least degredation. I have about 100 to spend on the devise and the accessories such as a microphone. Olympus VN-960PC Digital Voice Recorder, with LCD Display - Built-in 128MB Flash Memory and PC Link Any further comments would be welcome. Here is a link with specifications. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&s ku=389757&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation#Recording In recording format they say ADPCM (Adaptive Differential Pulse code Modulation)(WAV on PC). Can I assume then this is a .wav format recorder? Thank you, Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicholas Thieberger" < thien at UNIMELB.EDU.AU > To: < ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 2:30 PM Subject: Re: [ILAT] Affordable digital recorder advice > David, > > If it does not record in WAV format then it is not archival. |If it > records in a compressed form like WMA, mp3, or others, and then > converts to WAV it means the actual recording has already lost lots > of the signal. The m-audio microtrack records to WAV and is around > US$300 and is not too bad, it has some problem with preamps. > > Nick > > At 11:17 AM -0800 30/1/06, David Lewis wrote: >>Hi Nicholas, >>I checked out the first website mentioned and they wrote this as to >>an archival quality format "For audio, use WAV >>< http://emeld.org/school/glossary.html#wav > format." >>Coincidentally, I was at Best Buy last night and looked over their >>selection and chose the lower end of the higher end devices, the >>WS-100. It is supposed to transfer directly into Microsoft WMA >>format to the computer. I'm pretty sure I can then convert it to WAV >>format either with Windows Media player or ITunes. Any advice here? >>the device cost $100. the next higher device was $149.00. >>David Lewis >> >>Nicholas Thieberger wrote: >> >>>--> >>>Just to add to this thread from an archival perspective. If you are >>>recording unique things that you want to be available to >>>generations to come then you need to think about the format of what >>>you are recording and whether it will endure. Olympus and other >>>small (and cheap, unfortunately) recorders do not record in >>>archival formats. >>> >>>For a summary of the issues around longterm storage of recorded >>>material and endangered languages you could look at >>>http://emeld.org/school/index.html. >>> >>>There was a discussion of recorders on the RNLD list and if you go >>>to the archive of the RNLD list, here: >>> http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?S1=resource-network-linguistic-d iversity >>>and search for 'flash' and 'recorder' you will get some useful info >>> >>>A summary item is here: http://linguistlist.org/issues/16/16-2710.html >>> >>>All the best, >>> >>>Nick Thieberger >>> >>>At 7:36 AM -0700 30/1/06, Mia Kalish wrote: >>> >>>>Jan & all, >>>> >>>>I have been using Olympus digital recorders for years now. They have 3 >>>>quality settings (low, medium, & high) and 2 recording modes (one for >>>>meetings, one for one-to-one). The ones I buy are about $99. I recently got >>>>a Sony refurb unit for $32 at e-cost.com . >>>> >>>>I didn't read the thread about recorders, because I'm really happy with >>>>mine, and I had shared about it before. >>> >>>>Mia >>> >>> >>>-- >>> >>>Project Manager >>>PARADISEC >>>Department of Linguistics and Applied Linguistics >>>University of Melbourne, Vic 3010 >>>Australia >>> >>> nicholas.thieberger at paradisec.org.au >>>Ph 61 (0)3 8344 5185 >>> >>>PARADISEC >>>Pacific And Regional Archive for Digital Sources in Endangered Cultures >>>http://paradisec.org.au > > > -- > Project Manager > PARADISEC > Department of Linguistics and Applied Linguistics > University of Melbourne, Vic 3010 > Australia > > nicholas.thieberger at paradisec.org.au > Ph 61 (0)3 8344 5185 > > PARADISEC > Pacific And Regional Archive for Digital Sources in Endangered Cultures > http://paradisec.org.au > -- Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. Department of English Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program American Indian Language Development Institute Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 -- Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. Department of English Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program American Indian Language Development Institute Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU Tue Jan 31 21:32:54 2006 From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 14:32:54 -0700 Subject: Indigenous groups share in infrastructure funds (fwd) Message-ID: Tuesday, 31 January 2006, 13:53:44  AEDT INDIGENOUS GROUPS SHARE IN INFRASTRUCTURE FUNDS http://abc.net.au/message/news/stories/ms_news_1558917.htm Several Indigenous groups in regional Western Australia have received State Government funding to develop infrastructure projects. In the Pilbara, $150,000 will go to the Kunawarritji Aboriginal Corporation for the construction of a new general store. A similar amount will go to the Shire of Kellerberrin in the wheatbelt to upgrade two buildings that will house Indigenous art and artefacts. A Noongar language centre with visitor facilities will also be established. The Baiyungu Aboriginal Corporation will also get $250,000 from the Regional Investment Fund to assist with the development of a workers' accommodation complex in Coral Bay. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU Tue Jan 31 21:37:02 2006 From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 14:37:02 -0700 Subject: Words help us see and talk (fwd) Message-ID: WORDS HELP US SEE AND TALK An image of the ring of colored squares. The language we speak affects half of what we see, according to researchers at the University of California, Berkeley, and the University of Chicago. http://www.physorg.com/printnews.php?newsid=10413 Scholars have long debated whether our native language affects how we perceive reality — and whether speakers of different languages might therefore see the world differently. The idea that language affects perception is controversial, and results have conflicted. A paper published this month in the _Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences_ supports the idea — but with a twist. The paper suggests that language affects perception in the right half of the visual field, but much less, if at all, in the left half. The paper, “Whorf Hypothesis is Supported in the Right Visual Field but not in the Left,” by Aubrey Gilbert, Terry Regier, Paul Kay, and Richard Ivry — is the first to propose that language may shape just half of our visual world. Terry Regier is Associate Professor of Psychology at the University of Chicago. Gilbert is a graduate student in the Helen Wills Neuroscience Institute at UC Berkeley. Kay is Professor Emeritus of Linguistics and a senior research scientist at the International Computer Science Institute in Berkeley. Ivry is a Professor of Psychology, director of UC Berkeley's Institute of Cognitive and Brain Sciences, and a member of the Helen Wills Neuroscience Institute. This finding is suggested by the organization of the brain, the researchers say. Language function is processed predominantly in the left hemisphere of the brain, which receives visual information directly from the right visual field. “So it would make sense for the language processes of the left hemisphere to influence perception more in the right half of the visual field than in the left half”, said Terry Regier of the University of Chicago, who proposed the idea behind the study. The team confirmed the hypothesis, through experiments designed and conducted in Richard Ivry’s lab at the University of California, Berkeley. “We were thrilled to find this sort of effect and are very interested in investigating it further,” said Gilbert, the lead author on the study. The hypothesis was confirmed in experiments that tested Berkeley undergraduates, and also in an experiment that tested a patient whose hemispheres had been surgically separated. “The evening I first reviewed the split-brain patient data I called people at home in my excitement to share the findings,” said Gilbert. Many of the distinctions made in English do not appear in other languages, and vice versa. For instance, English uses two different words for the colors blue and green, while many other languages — such as Tarahumara, an indigenous language of Mexico — instead use a single color term that covers shades of both blue and green. An earlier study by Paul Kay and colleagues had shown that speakers of English and Tarahumara perceive colors differently: English speakers found blues and greens to be more distinct from each other than speakers of Tarahumara did, as if the English “green” / “blue” linguistic distinction sharpened the perceptual difference between the colors themselves. The present study essentially repeated the English part of that earlier test, but also made sure that colors were presented to either the right or the left half of the visual field — something the earlier study hadn’t done — so as to test whether language influences the right half of our visual world more than the left half, as predicted by brain organization. In each experimental trial of the present study, participants saw a ring of colored squares. All the squares were of exactly the same color, except for an “odd-man-out” of a different color. The odd-man-out appeared in either the right or the left half of the circle, and participants were asked to indicate which side of the circle the odd-man-out was on, by making a keyboard response. Critically, the color of this odd-man-out had either the same name as the other squares (e.g. a shade of “green”, while the others were all a different shade of “green”), or a different name (e.g. a shade of “blue”, while the others were all a shade of “green”). The researchers found that participants responded more quickly when the color of the odd-man-out had a different name than the color of the other squares — as if the linguistic difference had heightened the perceptual difference — but this only occurred if the odd-man-out was in the right half of the visual field, and not when it was in the left half. This was the predicted pattern. Earlier studies addressing the possible influence of language on perception tended to look for a simple yes or no answer: either language affects perception, or it does not. In contrast, the current findings support both views at once. Language appears to sharpen visual distinctions in the right visual field, and not in the left visual field. The researchers conclude that “our representation of the visual world may be, at one and the same time, filtered and not filtered through the categories of language.” Source: University of Chicago _This news is brought to you by PHYSORG.COM_ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 20746 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU Tue Jan 31 21:43:30 2006 From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 14:43:30 -0700 Subject: Bill would boost efforts to retain tribal language (fwd) Message-ID: Bill would boost efforts to retain tribal language Posted: January 31, 2006 by: The Associated Press http://www.indiancountry.com/content.cfm?id=1096412342 AUGUSTA, Maine (AP) - The days in which Penobscot children were admonished for speaking their native language in school are long gone. But the Penobscots still need to do more to rebuild a language that was nearly lost forever, a tribal lawmaker says. Michael Sockalexis, who represents his tribe in the Legislature, has introduced a bill that would add $300,000 to a Penobscot Language Preservation Fund operated by the state Department of Education. The money would be matched by the National Endowment for the Humanities. Many Penobscots know some words or phrases, but few are fluent. Precise figures are hard to come by, but Sockalexis said there are only a handful of ''traditional speakers'' among the tribe's more than 2,300 members, more than 1,000 of whom still live in Maine. Sockalexis said he was part of the last generation to be immersed in the Penobscot language at home. But even he is no longer fluent. ''I lost it,'' he said. With the language ''at a tipping point,'' the goal is to continue to instill the language in the tribe's children and to turn it back into a conversational language, he said. The tribe, which has a reservation on Indian Island, is working hard to do just that, using an after-school program that serves all students in the K - 8 school, as well as an immersion summer camp at which students speak nothing but Penobscot. The state funding and the matching funds would allow the tribe to move the language program back into the regular classroom, Sockalexis said. Maine's four Indian tribes - the Penobscot Nation, Passamaquoddy Tribe, Houlton Band of Maliseets and Aroostook Band of Micmacs - speak languages that are closely related. Those tribes and the Abenakis comprise what is known as the Wabanaki Confederacy. Wayne Newell, a Passamaquoddy language coordinator and an authority on all of Maine's tribal languages, said he prefers to speak Passamaquoddy. ''When we were kids, that's all you spoke. That's all you had. That's all you saw,'' he said. Now, Newell said, children of all tribes are unlikely to become fluent in their native languages, or to speak them at all, unless they learn them at school. The differences between English and Indian languages are much greater than the difference between English and French or Spanish, he noted. There are some English words that have no equivalent in Native languages, or that translate very differently. There is no Passamaquoddy word for ''wild,'' for example, because ''we have no concept of it'' as Indians, Newell said. Another difference is that verbs are more important than nouns in the Passamaquoddy language. ''You can have a complete sentence in Passamaquoddy with one word,'' Newell said. Newell said efforts like those of Sockalexis are important because language defines people. ''Whenever you lose a language, you lose more than just a language,'' he said. From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU Tue Jan 31 21:53:32 2006 From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 14:53:32 -0700 Subject: Peter Ladefoged, Linguist and Movie Consultant (fwd) Message-ID: PETER LADEFOGED, LINGUIST AND MOVIE CONSULTANT From News Services Monday, January 30, 2006; B06 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/29/AR2006012900989.html Peter Ladefoged, 80, a pioneering linguist who consulted on the 1964 film "My Fair Lady," in which actor Rex Harrison plays a phonetician, died Jan. 24 at a hospital in London after a stroke. Dr. Ladefoged, who made it his life's work to record and study the various parts of speech, became ill while traveling home from a research trip to India. Dr. Ladefoged pioneered the use of state-of-the-art equipment in the field. His first portable phonetics lab, which included a tape recorder and various scientific instruments, weighed 100 pounds and required a porter but enabled him to do more than listen: He could take quantitative measurements, such as gauging how much air escaped from the nose or throat when a sound was made. In an earlier trip to India, he recorded the Toda language, which is spoken by fewer than 1,000 people, as he documented its six trills produced by the tip of the tongue. In the Kalahari Desert, he studied the click sound native to Africa. In the United States, a Native American tribe whose members knew their language was vanishing refused to cooperate because they didn't want to reveal their culture to outsiders. Soon after moving to Los Angeles from Scotland to become an assistant professor at UCLA in 1962, Dr. Ladefoged had a brief career in Hollywood as the chief linguistic consultant on "My Fair Lady." Director George Cukor wanted him to teach Harrison -- who would win an Academy Award for the starring role of Professor Henry Higgins -- to behave like a phonetician. "My immediate answer was, 'I don't have a singing butler and three maids who sing, but I will tell you what I can as an assistant professor,' " Dr. Ladefoged told the Los Angeles Times in 2004. Dr. Ladefoged helped set up the film set's phonetics laboratory, taught Harrison to read phonetic symbols -- and ate cookies that the film's co-star, Audrey Hepburn, baked for crew members. "I'd never heard of Cukor. It just struck me as the chance to earn a fortune each week," Dr. Ladefoged said. "It was just so much more than a professor's salary. It paid me enough to buy my first car in America." The professor's voice is preserved on the soundtrack. When Henry Higgins stomps down the stairs, he knocks a record player that starts playing a recording of Dr. Ladefoged making vowel sounds. Peter Nielsen Ladefoged was born in Sutton, England. After serving in the British army during World War II, he enrolled at the University of Edinburgh in Scotland. He planned to study English literature but soon became fascinated by the sounds of speech. He earned a doctorate in phonetics at the university. "I wanted to find out why Shelley could write better-sounding poetry than I," he told the Los Angeles Times in 1970. Survivors include his wife, Jenny; three children; and five grandchildren. © 2006 The Washington Post Company -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From naomi.fox at UTAH.EDU Tue Jan 31 22:43:26 2006 From: naomi.fox at UTAH.EDU (Naomi Fox) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 15:43:26 -0700 Subject: Affordable digital recorder advice In-Reply-To: <000b01c62699$2cb132e0$6401a8c0@LFPMia> Message-ID: I may not have read all the messages in this thread, so I'm not sure if someone has already brought this up, but you might consider recording directly to a laptop. For some circumstances, this is ideal--cuts out the download time and gives the opportunity to make a copy of the recording for immediate return to the speaker. If you have a decent sound card and an iMic (about $35) hooked to a microphone to clean up the signal the quality can be quite good. You can also carry this equipment for use as a backup in the event of equipment malfunction if you use another device as your primary. The Vermont Folklife Center has a good description of the process at http://www.vermontfolklifecenter.org/res_audioequip.htm#v. Best, Naomi -- Naomi Fox Center for American Indian Languages University of Utah Quoting Mia Kalish : I guess the upshot of all this is that I don't think people should be made to feel bad because they can't afford high-end equipment. I loved Keola's musician's analysis. He's right about the Dolby hiss :-) And I agree that there are lots of recording options. But I think also what has come out of this discussion is that there are lots of considerations, lots of available technology, lots of things you can do with the recordings, and lots of people who will use the technology and the recordings. Keola mentioned sampling frequencies: # of bits is related to sampling size; it is also related to how fast materials will download. I've noticed that a lot of the sites I see don't seem to worry about how long it takes a sound to make it down to the listener. People also use Windows Media format which is InCreDibly SLOW. . . . (aaargh). Every time to open a sound, it has to open that high-graph interface. . . . Recently, I couldn't download the new Windows Media Player because there was something wrong with the signing in the internal configuration. So I could hear the Welsh on the BBS site. . . . Mia _____ From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Susan Penfield Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 11:42 AM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [ILAT] Affordable digital recorder advice Mia, I couldn't agree more, because we have found all of the same conditions/recommendations. But the use of high quality equipment, in the field, still yields much better and much longer lasting recordings and should be considered. We had some problems just this weekend with a high end recorder, just because it was not initially easy to use. That led us to rethink what equipment is best and/or how much more training is needed. Guess all I'm saying is that there are lots of options now (I have also used your same recorder) and that making more of an investment in high quality is worth it in the long run. We are also in the business of creating tons of stuff for the community and are putting that responsibility into the hands of community members -- so I really understand what you are saying. Nevertheless, that makes the quality of the recordings even more valuable and we should all be striving not just for lots of stuff but for the best possible stuff, given the recording conditions. Best, Susan On 1/31/06, Mia Kalish > wrote: Hi, Susan, I didn't read the whole main thread, but I thought I was perceiving a recommendation for "recording studio quality" for archival recording. Bringing people into a sound controlled studio is very different from working in communities where we create tons and tons of material for use by the community. When we were doing this initially 4-5 years ago now, Depree and I created a whole checklist of things we wanted to be able to do, with a focus of working in the community. For us, the considerations ranked approximately as follows: 1. Elder comfort 2. Affordable by community members 3. High quality recording 4. Convenience 5. High portability 6. Battery-powered 7. Ease of use, for us & for community members Our goal was to work with communities to show them how they could take a major hand in designing and developing their own resources. As such, many of our considerations incorporated the needs of the Community in our assessment of recorders. Sophisticated, expensive recorders wouldn't be appropriate; special recording rooms and devices would take us out of the community and would also be difficult to use in places where people live. We didn't want to use our hosts' electricity; for some people, this is a financial hardship, even for small requirements. We were also prepared for places where there is no electricity; or where the travel to and from the locale is challenging, as for example, the path down the Grand Canyon to the Havapai. So we included all these considerations in our analysis. Mia _____ From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Susan Penfield Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 7:59 AM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [ILAT] Affordable digital recorder advice Mia, Jan and all, Just a thought here -- It seems to me that we might not want to distinguish between the uses for revitalization and documentation. Good quality is needed on both fronts since they really play into each other. I think that ease of use is important (for some of us less techie folks), and certainly cost is an issue for many, but getting good archival quality doesn't necessarily mean giving up all the other things Mia referred and,increasingly, those of us who do revitalization work need to be mindful that many of those recordings may end up as the only documentation of the language. Best, Susan On 1/31/06, Jan Tucker < jtucker at starband.net > wrote: Thank you all for the information you provided about affordable digital recorders. I'm looking at this one right now. Yes, I'm using it for language revitalization, and would like the best possible quality and least degredation. I have about 100 to spend on the devise and the accessories such as a microphone. Olympus VN-960PC Digital Voice Recorder, with LCD Display - Built-in 128MB Flash Memory and PC Link Any further comments would be welcome. Here is a link with specifications. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&s ku=389757&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation#Recording In recording format they say ADPCM (Adaptive Differential Pulse code Modulation)(WAV on PC). Can I assume then this is a .wav format recorder? Thank you, Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicholas Thieberger" < thien at UNIMELB.EDU.AU > To: < ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 2:30 PM Subject: Re: [ILAT] Affordable digital recorder advice > David, > > If it does not record in WAV format then it is not archival. |If it > records in a compressed form like WMA, mp3, or others, and then > converts to WAV it means the actual recording has already lost lots > of the signal. The m-audio microtrack records to WAV and is around > US$300 and is not too bad, it has some problem with preamps. > > Nick > > At 11:17 AM -0800 30/1/06, David Lewis wrote: >>Hi Nicholas, >>I checked out the first website mentioned and they wrote this as to >>an archival quality format "For audio, use WAV >>< http://emeld.org/school/glossary.html#wav > format." >>Coincidentally, I was at Best Buy last night and looked over their >>selection and chose the lower end of the higher end devices, the >>WS-100. It is supposed to transfer directly into Microsoft WMA >>format to the computer. I'm pretty sure I can then convert it to WAV >>format either with Windows Media player or ITunes. Any advice here? >>the device cost $100. the next higher device was $149.00. >>David Lewis >> >>Nicholas Thieberger wrote: >> >>>--> >>>Just to add to this thread from an archival perspective. If you are >>>recording unique things that you want to be available to >>>generations to come then you need to think about the format of what >>>you are recording and whether it will endure. Olympus and other >>>small (and cheap, unfortunately) recorders do not record in >>>archival formats. >>> >>>For a summary of the issues around longterm storage of recorded >>>material and endangered languages you could look at >>>http://emeld.org/school/index.html. >>> >>>There was a discussion of recorders on the RNLD list and if you go >>>to the archive of the RNLD list, here: >>> http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?S1=resource-network-linguistic-d iversity >>>and search for 'flash' and 'recorder' you will get some useful info >>> >>>A summary item is here: http://linguistlist.org/issues/16/16-2710.html >>> >>>All the best, >>> >>>Nick Thieberger >>> >>>At 7:36 AM -0700 30/1/06, Mia Kalish wrote: >>> >>>>Jan & all, >>>> >>>>I have been using Olympus digital recorders for years now. They have 3 >>>>quality settings (low, medium, & high) and 2 recording modes (one for >>>>meetings, one for one-to-one). The ones I buy are about $99. I recently got >>>>a Sony refurb unit for $32 at e-cost.com . >>>> >>>>I didn't read the thread about recorders, because I'm really happy with >>>>mine, and I had shared about it before. >>> >>>>Mia >>> >>> >>>-- >>> >>>Project Manager >>>PARADISEC >>>Department of Linguistics and Applied Linguistics >>>University of Melbourne, Vic 3010 >>>Australia >>> >>> nicholas.thieberger at paradisec.org.au >>>Ph 61 (0)3 8344 5185 >>> >>>PARADISEC >>>Pacific And Regional Archive for Digital Sources in Endangered Cultures >>>http://paradisec.org.au > > > -- > Project Manager > PARADISEC > Department of Linguistics and Applied Linguistics > University of Melbourne, Vic 3010 > Australia > > nicholas.thieberger at paradisec.org.au > Ph 61 (0)3 8344 5185 > > PARADISEC > Pacific And Regional Archive for Digital Sources in Endangered Cultures > http://paradisec.org.au > -- Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. Department of English Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program American Indian Language Development Institute Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 -- Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. Department of English Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program American Indian Language Development Institute Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU Tue Jan 31 23:22:30 2006 From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 16:22:30 -0700 Subject: Affordable digital recorder advice In-Reply-To: <1138747406.43dfe80e6a64d@webmail.utah.edu> Message-ID: Hi Naomi, everybody, I am glad you brought this up as I have been experminenting with recording directly to a laptop (PC & Mac).  I have not worked out all the kinks but it seems to work fine as much as I can do in setting up in 5 minutes.  I am using AudioBuddy (dual mini mic preamp), a Shure SM63L mic, and a mini table mic mount.  Both the Shure mic and preamp use XLR connections.  At the moment, I am not too concerned about the audio capture and have been using Audacity (freeware), SoundForge 6.0 (PC), and Soundtrack Pro (Mac) with varying results recording .wav and .aiff files at 44.1 hertz & 16 bit.  I think I tried using GarageBand at one point but don't remember the results.  Otherwise, I have also been using a Plantronics DSP400 (several yrs old, probably outmoded by now) USB microphone headset for single speaker voice recording and recording my own voice.  The only drawback so far has been my PC laptop which has a very noisy fan so when I am recording the sensitive mic picks it up quite clear.   I have been thinking about burying it inside a foamed lined box!  Live recordings of activities (people doing things) I am putting onto film, otherwise laptop recording can mostly happen on a table where you are recording speakers or things that are immobile. Although this may not be directly related to recording but one other recommendation I can swear by is to get the best possible monitoring speakers and headphones you can buy.  It makes the world of difference!   Little sounds coming from your digitial hand held recorder, laptop speakers, or 20$ computer speakers will not do... ;-o  I just picked up a pair of M-Audio BX5a monitoring speakers and wow...I am hearing sweet sounds from my language recordings that I have never heard before! Anyway, just a few comments and marvels to add here.  Phil Cash Cash Nez Perce Reservation UofA Quoting Naomi Fox : > I may not have read all the messages in this thread, so I'm not sure > if someone > has already brought this up, but you might consider recording directly to a > laptop. For some circumstances, this is ideal--cuts out the download time and > gives the opportunity to make a copy of the recording for immediate return to > the speaker. If you have a decent sound card and an iMic (about $35) > hooked to > a microphone to clean up the signal the quality can be quite good. > You can also > carry this equipment for use as a backup in the event of equipment > malfunction > if you use another device as your primary. The Vermont Folklife Center has a > good description of the process at > http://www.vermontfolklifecenter.org/res_audioequip.htm#v. > > Best, > Naomi > > > -- > Naomi Fox > Center for American Indian Languages > University of Utah > > Quoting Mia Kalish : > > I guess the upshot of all this is that I don't think people should be made > to feel bad because they can't afford high-end equipment. > > > > I loved Keola's musician's analysis. He's right about the Dolby hiss :-) > > > > And I agree that there are lots of recording options. But I think also what > has come out of this discussion is that there are lots of considerations, > lots of available technology, lots of things you can do with the recordings, > and lots of people who will use the technology and the recordings. > > > > Keola mentioned sampling frequencies: # of bits is related to sampling size; > it is also related to how fast materials will download. I've noticed that a > lot of the sites I see don't seem to worry about how long it takes a sound > to make it down to the listener. People also use Windows Media format which > is InCreDibly SLOW. . . . (aaargh). Every time to open a sound, it has to > open that high-graph interface. . . . Recently, I couldn't download the new > Windows Media Player because there was something wrong with the signing in > the internal configuration. So I could hear the Welsh on the BBS site. . . . > > > > Mia > > > > _____ > > From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] > On Behalf Of Susan Penfield > Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 11:42 AM > To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > Subject: Re: [ILAT] Affordable digital recorder advice > > > > Mia, > > I couldn't agree more, because we have found all of the same > conditions/recommendations. But the use of high quality equipment, in the > field, still yields much better and much longer lasting recordings and > should be considered. We had some problems just this weekend with a high end > recorder, just because it was not initially easy to use. That led us to > rethink what equipment is best and/or how much more training is needed. > Guess all I'm saying is that there are lots of options now (I have also used > your same recorder) and that making more of an investment in high quality is > worth it in the long run. We are also in the business of creating tons of > stuff for the community and are putting that responsibility into the hands > of community members -- so I really understand what you are saying. > Nevertheless, that makes the quality of the recordings even more valuable > and we should all be striving not just for lots of stuff but for the best > possible stuff, given the recording conditions. > > Best, > > Susan > > > > On 1/31/06, Mia Kalish MiaKalish at learningforpeople.us> > wrote: > > Hi, Susan, > > > > I didn't read the whole main thread, but I thought I was perceiving a > recommendation for "recording studio quality" for archival recording. > Bringing people into a sound controlled studio is very different from > working in communities where we create tons and tons of material for use by > the community. > > > > When we were doing this initially 4-5 years ago now, Depree and I created a > whole checklist of things we wanted to be able to do, with a focus of > working in the community. For us, the considerations ranked approximately as > follows: > > 1. Elder comfort > > 2. Affordable by community members > > 3. High quality recording > > 4. Convenience > > 5. High portability > > 6. Battery-powered > > 7. Ease of use, for us & for community members > > > > Our goal was to work with communities to show them how they could take a > major hand in designing and developing their own resources. As such, many of > our considerations incorporated the needs of the Community in our assessment > of recorders. Sophisticated, expensive recorders wouldn't be appropriate; > special recording rooms and devices would take us out of the community and > would also be difficult to use in places where people live. We didn't want > to use our hosts' electricity; for some people, this is a financial > hardship, even for small requirements. We were also prepared for places > where there is no electricity; or where the travel to and from the locale is > challenging, as for example, the path down the Grand Canyon to the Havapai. > So we included all these considerations in our analysis. > > > > Mia > > _____ > > From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto: )'; return true;" href="javascript:open_compose_win('to=%3E&thismailbox=INBOX');">> ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Susan Penfield > Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 7:59 AM > To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > > Subject: Re: [ILAT] Affordable digital recorder advice > > > > Mia, Jan and all, > Just a thought here -- It seems to me that we might not want to distinguish > between the uses for revitalization and documentation. Good quality is > needed on both fronts since they really play into each other. I think that > ease of use is important (for some of us less techie folks), and certainly > cost is an issue for many, but getting good archival quality doesn't > necessarily mean giving up all the other things Mia referred > and,increasingly, those of us who do revitalization work need to be mindful > that many of those recordings may end up as the only documentation of the > language. > Best, > Susan > > On 1/31/06, Jan Tucker < jtucker at starband.net jtucker at starband.net> > > wrote: > > Thank you all for the information you provided about affordable digital > recorders. I'm looking at this one right now. > > > > Yes, I'm using it for language revitalization, and would like the best > possible quality and least degredation. I have about 100 to spend on the > devise and the accessories such as a microphone. > > > > > > > Olympus VN-960PC Digital Voice Recorder, with LCD Display - Built-in 128MB > Flash Memory and PC Link > > > Any further comments would be welcome. Here is a link with specifications. > > > > > > > sku=389757&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation#Recording> > http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&s > ku=389757&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation#Recording > > > > > In recording format they say ADPCM (Adaptive Differential Pulse code > Modulation)(WAV on PC). Can I assume then this is a .wav format recorder? > > > Thank you, > > > > Jan > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Nicholas Thieberger" < thien at UNIMELB.EDU.AU> > thien at UNIMELB.EDU.AU > > > To: < ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU> ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > > > Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 2:30 PM > > Subject: Re: [ILAT] Affordable digital recorder advice > > > > > David, > > > > If it does not record in WAV format then it is not archival. |If it > > records in a compressed form like WMA, mp3, or others, and then > > converts to WAV it means the actual recording has already lost lots > > of the signal. The m-audio microtrack records to WAV and is around > > US$300 and is not too bad, it has some problem with preamps. > > > > Nick > > > > At 11:17 AM -0800 30/1/06, David Lewis wrote: > >>Hi Nicholas, > >>I checked out the first website mentioned and they wrote this as to > >>an archival quality format "For audio, use WAV > >>< http://emeld.org/school/glossary.html#wav > format." > >>Coincidentally, I was at Best Buy last night and looked over their > >>selection and chose the lower end of the higher end devices, the > >>WS-100. It is supposed to transfer directly into Microsoft WMA > >>format to the computer. I'm pretty sure I can then convert it to WAV > >>format either with Windows Media player or ITunes. Any advice here? > >>the device cost $100. the next higher device was $149.00. > >>David Lewis > >> > >>Nicholas Thieberger wrote: > >> > >>>--> > >>>Just to add to this thread from an archival perspective. If you are > >>>recording unique things that you want to be available to > >>>generations to come then you need to think about the format of what > >>>you are recording and whether it will endure. Olympus and other > >>>small (and cheap, unfortunately) recorders do not record in > >>>archival formats. > >>> > >>>For a summary of the issues around longterm storage of recorded > >>>material and endangered languages you could look at > >>>http://emeld.org/school/index.html. > >>> > >>>There was a discussion of recorders on the RNLD list and if you go > >>>to the archive of the RNLD list, here: > >>> > http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?S1=resource-network-linguistic-d > iversity > diversity> > >>>and search for 'flash' and 'recorder' you will get some useful info > >>> > >>>A summary item is here: http://linguistlist.org/issues/16/16-2710.html > >>> > >>>All the best, > >>> > >>>Nick Thieberger > >>> > >>>At 7:36 AM -0700 30/1/06, Mia Kalish wrote: > >>> > >>>>Jan & all, > >>>> > >>>>I have been using Olympus digital recorders for years now. They have 3 > >>>>quality settings (low, medium, & high) and 2 recording modes (one for > >>>>meetings, one for one-to-one). The ones I buy are about $99. I recently > got > >>>>a Sony refurb unit for $32 at e-cost.com . > >>>> > >>>>I didn't read the thread about recorders, because I'm really happy with > >>>>mine, and I had shared about it before. > >>> > >>>>Mia > >>> > >>> > >>>-- > >>> > >>>Project Manager > >>>PARADISEC > >>>Department of Linguistics and Applied Linguistics > >>>University of Melbourne, Vic 3010 > >>>Australia > >>> > >>> nicholas.thieberger at paradisec.org.au > nicholas.thieberger at paradisec.org.au> > >>>Ph 61 (0)3 8344 5185 > >>> > >>>PARADISEC > >>>Pacific And Regional Archive for Digital Sources in Endangered Cultures > >>>http://paradisec.org.au > > > > > -- > > Project Manager > > PARADISEC > > Department of Linguistics and Applied Linguistics > > University of Melbourne, Vic 3010 > > Australia > > > > nicholas.thieberger at paradisec.org.au> > nicholas.thieberger at paradisec.org.au > > Ph 61 (0)3 8344 5185 > > > > PARADISEC > > Pacific And Regional Archive for Digital Sources in Endangered Cultures > > http://paradisec.org.au > > > > > > > -- > Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. > > Department of English > Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics > and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program > American Indian Language Development Institute > Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 > > > > > -- > Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. > > Department of English > Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics > and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program > American Indian Language Development Institute > Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jtucker at starband.net Fri Jan 27 17:08:27 2006 From: jtucker at starband.net (Jan Tucker) Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 12:08:27 -0500 Subject: Create a language course of your own and take it with you. In-Reply-To: <20051227060411.36261B6EB@listserv.arizona.edu> Message-ID: Hay Mia and all, Do you want to check out my model website at http://nativepeople.net/moodle? I've got some Hot potato quizzes, with sound bites [see Cherokee I and II], some are drop and drag others are sound flashcards. Some are in the Cherokee font with sound bites. Though I need some help translating the directions since everything comes out in the font, when I use it... lol. How do you say delete in Cherokee, I've used 'yes' for 'next' and 'no' for 'Delete' with the flash cards [note you can delete the ones you've learned? The grading comes out all wrong still, I need a Cherokee speaker who is a programmer. Anyway, its all still experimental, but I'm making progress learning how to set up and use the Moodle courseware and hot potatoes features with the courseware. I'll be ready soon to go more public, and am ready now to invite other teachers who want to try out online learning software for teaching language and culture. I'm ready for anyone who wants to try out the software and learn along with me, experimental type teachers WELCOME! What I have figured out is that this website can be a wonderful supplement to a live course. I just finished taking Cherokee I online LIVE and have designed this course now based on the lesson plan of the live course adding practice opportunities and all the resources I can find needed to learn. For example, in the first week I've put the syllabary voice file and the viewable syllabary in resources, and provided directions, so a student can come in and open up the viewable syllabary and listen to the spoken one at the same time. Then I've instructed them to see and say it along with the native speaker. I could make some more practice quizzes for this first week, but I haven't had time!!!!! I've been experimenting also with the oCherokee software for typing Cherokee without having to memorize the key board and find it works just fine except in certain three letter syllables like tsa, tsi, and the qua...quv group. I think it's a programmatic problem since dla...dlv all work. Cherokee II starts Jan 9th live, and there will be more work with the syllabary. I'm doing this participant observation language learning myself, so that I can see what it's like to learn an indigenous language from the student's perspective, and design an online course to support and promote learning of that language. I invite now other experimental teachers to come in and design a course for their language. The beauty of this model right now is that it is portable, so that anything a teacher designs can taken with them to their own website. If they like the software then the teacher can use Moodle open source courseware for free. The software and course a teacher builds is downloadable, and there is a really great supportive developer and teacher community of international scope using Moodle. I have used the community many times to solve problems as I have been learning myself how to create and manage a website, administer the courseware, and design the content of a language course. So, I invite interested experimental type teachers to contact me jtucker at nativepeople.net, and I'll make a shell course on my site, so YOU can create your own language course online, enroll students in it and teach it. Jan -----Original Message----- From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU]On Behalf Of Mia Kalish Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 1:04 AM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [ILAT] Synchronized Multimedia Integration Language (fwd) This is curious, because right now, streaming audio is a proprietary format, and not many people have readers. It also has the ugly behavior of loading after all the rest of the action has already happened. I think it's okay to have a language where you can specify simultaneity, but making it happen with streaming audio may be a whole 'nother kettle of fish. Mia -----Original Message----- From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of phil cash cash Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 8:28 AM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: [ILAT] Synchronized Multimedia Integration Language (fwd) 14 December 2005 Synchronized Multimedia Integration Language http://www.managinginformation.com/news/content_show_full.php?id=4549 The World Wide Web Consortium has released "Synchronized Multimedia Integration Language (SMIL 2.1)" as a W3C Recommendation. With SMIL (pronounced "smile"), authors create multimedia presentations and animations integrating streaming audio and video with graphics and text. Version 2.1 features include a new Mobile Profile and an Extended Mobile Profile with enhanced timing, layout and animation capabilities. "Today, W3C makes good on the promise of first class multimedia presentations for the mobile Web," said Chris Lilley (W3C). http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/REC-SMIL2-20051213/ http://www.w3.org/2005/12/smil-pressrelease.html.en http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/ From jtucker at starband.net Fri Jan 27 17:43:27 2006 From: jtucker at starband.net (Jan Tucker) Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 12:43:27 -0500 Subject: LSA -- Jan 5-8 In-Reply-To: <20051227171939.9301ABDD5@listserv.arizona.edu> Message-ID: Mia Congratulations on your publication! Will there be an online copy? Jan -----Original Message----- From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU]On Behalf Of Mia Kalish Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 12:19 PM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [ILAT] LSA -- Jan 5-8 I'm glad you posted, too, Sue. It is nice to know what is going on in our community, and too often (to my mind) people think what they are doing isn't important enough to "bother" others with. But I LOVE knowing who is going to be there, what they are doing, what to plan for. And I love the excitement and anticipation of knowing I am going to see people who are often too far removed geographically to see at any other time. OBTW: I published my First, Yep, count 'em, 1, paper. It is Immersion multimedia for adult Chiricahua language learners, In New Review of Media and Hypermedia, December 2005 special issue, if anyone would like to read it. It is the theoretical basis for the software I make J. Mia ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Susan Penfield Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 10:09 AM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [ILAT] LSA -- Jan 5-8 Mia and all, I didn't actually intend to post to ILAT, but I'm glad I did. There are a number of good papers which will be presented (including Mia's I'm sure) at the LSA national meetings in Alburquerque in January (5-8). I hope many people will try to attend. The SSILA (Society for the Study of Indigenous Languages ) is being held in concert with LSA that weekend as well. Our 'special session' is aimed at showcasing community work and community language specialists in this national forum. Hope others can make it! Looking forward to seeing you there, Mia! Happy New Year to all! Susan On 12/27/05, Mia Kalish < MiaKalish at learningforpeople.us> wrote: Hi, Sue & Everyone, I am going to be at the conference. I'm doing a workshop, maybe with one of my colleagues, on how to gather information to support the kinds of revitalization materials that keep languages off museum shelves and in the community (one of my friends from Wales dreamed up the "in the community and off the museum shelves" metaphor. I thought it was apt.) I/we are presenting Friday evening. Mia ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Susan Penfield Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 9:43 AM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: [ILAT] LSA -- Jan 5-8 Hi all, Just to remind everyone of our special session -- I really hope we get some attendance, given that we are the last on the list -- But I have heard from a number of linguists who plan to stay and hear what we all have to say. There are some guidelines for handouts on the LSA website under a link for 'paper guidelines' See http://www.lsadc.org/info/meet-annual.cfm I have mentioned that part of our discussion would be devoted to how documentation feeds into revitalization so I hope that you all give that some thought/time. Otherwise, I'm just looking forward to an active discussion and to finding out what everyone is up to these days! Please forward this to any other participants -- I don't have Mary Eunice's address or Brenda's...Thanks! Best Wishes for a Happy New Year and see you all soon! Susan -- Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. Department of English Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program American Indian Language Development Institute Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 -- Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. Department of English Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program American Indian Language Development Institute Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jtucker at starband.net Sat Jan 28 21:25:04 2006 From: jtucker at starband.net (Jan Tucker) Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 16:25:04 -0500 Subject: Tsa-la-gi syllabary In-Reply-To: <20051228205443.79157C5A3@listserv.arizona.edu> Message-ID: Mia, the syllabary is awesome! I couldn't figure out how to "drop it into a web page though. so I couldn't see it till now. I would love to be able to put it on my site at native people.net, can you help? If not I'll just link to it from your site. I am impressed. Well done, I am so impressed. I can't wait to share it with other students. This is so cool. I saw this same kind of thing done for Dakota or Lakota language somewhere on the net. Awesome. What did the online Tsalagi teacher think of it? What would be really cool to do with this is to take out the phonetic and have it just the Tsalagi syllabary. After your dissertation that is,I don't want to take any more of your time, but I just love it. I could type up a syllabary without the phonetics. Jan -----Original Message----- From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU]On Behalf Of Mia Kalish Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 3:55 PM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: [ILAT] Tsa-la-gi syllabary Hi, everyone, An interesting thing happened yesterday: Jan Tucker and I were talking about the asynchrony of the Tsa-la-gi syllabary and the recording of the sounds as an MP3. It seemed a reasonable idea to put them together so it was easier to relate the 85 sounds to the 85 symbols. J So here it is. http://learningforpeople.us/Tsa-la-gi.htm Mia -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU Sun Jan 1 07:00:27 2006 From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash) Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 00:00:27 -0700 Subject: fwd msg from Resa Message-ID: Hi, all. I've followed these posts with great interest--for a non-technology person--and I've really enjoyed seeing everyone's sites. It's amazing what you are all able to do. And these sites must reach a lot of people. Thank you for sharing. Katherine--I'd like to contact you off list. Will you send me a message at cranem @ ecu.edu? Thanks. And Phil--thank you so much for all the work you do to maintain the list. Aren't we coming up on your second year??? Resa From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU Mon Jan 2 17:23:02 2006 From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 10:23:02 -0700 Subject: Raiders To Broadcast Game In Navajo (fwd) Message-ID: Raiders To Broadcast Game In Navajo http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=raiders&id=3763183 Dec. 27 - BCN - Although local fans may have given up on the Oakland Raiders this year because of their lousy record, the football team is hoping to boost its radio audience by having its final game of the year broadcast in Navajo. The Raiders have one of the worst records in the National Football League, with four wins and 11 losses, and rumors are swirling that they will fire their coach, Martinez native Norv Turner, after only his second season on the job. But team officials say they're excited that the team's game against the New York Giants on Saturday will be broadcast on radio station KTNN, which is based in Window Rock, Ariz., and bills itself as "The Voice of the Navajo Nation." The station, which is at 660 on the AM dial, broadcasts a 50,000-watt signal that reaches the entire western United States and northern Mexico. Saturday's broadcast will mark the second time that a Raiders game will be heard in Navajo. The team's Nov. 13 home game against the Denver Broncos was also broadcast in the Native American language, and Raiders officials say it was well received. Raiders chief executive Amy Trask said in a statement, "This presents an exciting opportunity to unite the Raider Nation with the voice of the Navajo nation. This association is yet another example of our commitment to our global fan base and our ever-expanding multicultural initiatives." L.A. Williams and Ernie Manuelito, winners of the 1996 Native American Journalism Association award for the best bilingual sportscasters, will call the action for KTNN, as they did for the Raiders-Broncos game. Jay Allen, the station's program director, said, "KTNN has been broadcasting as the Voice of the Navajo Nation for the last 20 years and is proud to be broadcasting the Raiders game in the Navajo language for a second time." The Raiders have broadcast every regular-season game in Spanish for the past four years. In addition, the team offers exclusive online content in Spanish at http://www.raidersenespanol.com, and in 2004 became the first NFL team to publish original content in four languages, adding Chinese and German at http://www.raidersinchinese.com and http://www.raidersingerman.com. The Raiders also offer an international T-shirt that features a famous phrase by owner Al Davis: "Just Win Baby!" The T-shirt, the first of its kind in the NFL, features 11 different languages: Spanish, German, Italian, Chinese (Mandarin), Japanese, Korean, French, Greek, Tagalog, Russian and English. >> Video On Demand: Build Your Own Newscast Copyright 2005 by Bay City News, Inc. Republication, re-transmission or reuse without the express written consent of Bay City News, Inc. Is prohibited. From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU Mon Jan 2 17:36:47 2006 From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 10:36:47 -0700 Subject: Australian Cinema Circa 2006 Message-ID: excerpt from "Australian Cinema Circa 2006" http://www.theepochtimes.com/news/6-1-1/36398.html Ten Canoes ? tragi-comedy/drama. Jamie Gulpilil (son of David Gulpilil) stars in this Australian Indigenous film. Great lengths have been taken to produce a set for the Ganalbingu mythical past, and to portray life as accurately as possible in northeast Arnhem Land (Northern Territory) centuries before the influence of western culture. Ten Canoes is a cautionary tale of love, lust and revenge gone wrong that, incidental to its central story line, also explores something of the "old ways". Written/Directed/Produced by Rolf de Heer, the film has a budget of just $A2.2 million. Rolf de Heer has written and directed many highly acclaimed award-winning feature films such as, The Tracker with David Gulpilil and Gary Sweet, Bad Boy Bubby, The Old Man Who Read Love Stories, and Alexandra's Project. Extraordinarily, this is the first feature film to be shot entirely in Aboriginal language (predominantly Ganalbingu) and local Indigenous people have been involved in most of levels of production. It features English storytelling work by David Gulpilil and is subtitled in Ganalbingu language. This film has a uniquely remarkable production background and, above all, is my most eagerly awaited release of the year. From jtucker at starband.net Mon Jan 2 19:23:19 2006 From: jtucker at starband.net (Jan Tucker) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 14:23:19 -0500 Subject: Australian Cinema Circa 2006 In-Reply-To: <20060102103647.0wjmugwo4cwoswoc@www.email.arizona.edu> Message-ID: Phil, I just bought Walk About, a film I haven't been able to get out of my mind since I first saw it. Hadn't realized there were other films also [The Tracker with David Gulpilil and Gary Sweet] that David Gulpilil and now his son Jamie is part of such a feature film shot entirely in aboriginal language. I can't wait to see it. This is one of the many highlights of belonging to this list server, The great news about projects like this one. Jan -----Original Message----- From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU]On Behalf Of phil cash cash Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 12:37 PM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: [ILAT] Australian Cinema Circa 2006 excerpt from "Australian Cinema Circa 2006" http://www.theepochtimes.com/news/6-1-1/36398.html Ten Canoes ? tragi-comedy/drama. Jamie Gulpilil (son of David Gulpilil) stars in this Australian Indigenous film. Great lengths have been taken to produce a set for the Ganalbingu mythical past, and to portray life as accurately as possible in northeast Arnhem Land (Northern Territory) centuries before the influence of western culture. Ten Canoes is a cautionary tale of love, lust and revenge gone wrong that, incidental to its central story line, also explores something of the "old ways". Written/Directed/Produced by Rolf de Heer, the film has a budget of just $A2.2 million. Rolf de Heer has written and directed many highly acclaimed award-winning feature films such as, The Tracker with David Gulpilil and Gary Sweet, Bad Boy Bubby, The Old Man Who Read Love Stories, and Alexandra's Project. Extraordinarily, this is the first feature film to be shot entirely in Aboriginal language (predominantly Ganalbingu) and local Indigenous people have been involved in most of levels of production. It features English storytelling work by David Gulpilil and is subtitled in Ganalbingu language. This film has a uniquely remarkable production background and, above all, is my most eagerly awaited release of the year. From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU Wed Jan 4 18:39:16 2006 From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 11:39:16 -0700 Subject: O'odham linguist comes to Washington (fwd) Message-ID: O'odham linguist comes to Washington ? Indian Country Today January 04, 2006. All Rights Reserved Posted: January 04, 2006 by: Philip Burnham / Indian Country Today http://www.indiancountry.com/content.cfm?id=1096412202 WASHINGTON - Hearing a phrase of Tohono O'odham in Washington is like catching sight of a rare and beautiful bird. It's a language of hushed, lilting sounds, perfect for making songs about rain and corn or writing poems about desert clouds. That's how Ofelia Zepeda, linguist and writer, began a public talk at the National Museum of the American Indian one evening late this fall - in O'odham, her native tongue. She was in town to attend meetings on Native language preservation and to sign copies of ''Home: Native People in the Southwest,'' a companion book she co-authored for a recent exhibit at the Heard Museum in Phoenix. Like many people native to the Southwest, Zepeda's life is a braid of different languages and lands. Her parents crossed over from Sonora, Mexico in the 1950s and settled on the periphery of the O'odham reservation in Arizona. Zepeda was born in a wooden row house in Stanfield, surrounded by fields of cotton, and didn't speak any English until she was 7. She told her audience she felt ''too lazy'' for the labor of picking cotton and decided to get an education instead, becoming the first in her family to finish high school. In fact, she may be the first person in American history to earn a doctorate in linguistics and a prestigious MacArthur Fellowship for being too ''lazy.'' Zepeda is co-founder and director of the American Indian Language Development Institute in Tucson, Ariz., a summer residential program that trains teachers how to instruct Native languages and integrate them into school curricula. Endangered languages are a global problem, Zepeda urged. ''Language shift,'' which began in earnest with European contact in the Americas, has only lately been perceived as a serious threat to tribes. English speakers don't think much about language, she said flatly, ''the way they don't think about breathing.'' Other communities fear their last linguistic gasp is near at hand. Zepeda's tribe numbers about 22,000, half of whom speak O'odham, a percentage many tribes would envy. Not all of its speakers are even bilingual. Zepeda recounted translating in a city court recently for an O'odham in her 20s who couldn't speak English, a sign the tribal language is not the sole preserve of elders. But young people aren't learning the language at home, said Zepeda, and in school they get stuck in O'odham classes that are isolated from the rest of the curriculum. Asked about the future of her mother tongue, she gazed around the auditorium and replied sheepishly, ''I can't lie, because my friends are here.'' Zepeda went on to explain she is still waiting for tribal leaders to do something decisive about language loss. They did do something about the old tribal name, Papago, a word derived from the O'odham phrase for ''bean eaters.'' ''I haven't heard that word in a long time,'' Zepeda laughed. She mused that a novice speaker probably approached a tribal member long ago and mixed up the question ''Who are you?'' with ''What are you eating?'' - and his answer stuck ever after as their public name. In 1986 the tribe put forward its own words for ''desert people'' - Tohono O'odham - and reclaimed its traditional name through an act of Congress. A practical writing system for O'odham, devised in the 1960s, has official status. But aside from Zepeda's books and an occasional article in the tribal newspaper, the script is confined to scholarly efforts. ''The nice thing about language,'' Zepeda said, ''is that it's something that can be taught.'' In fact, Native Hawaiians and the Maori of New Zealand are pulling languages back from the edge of extinction. But she is wary of what could happen even to a seemingly strong language like O'odham if nothing is done to stop the persistent trend of language drift. A linguist at the University of Arizona, Zepeda sharpens her language skills as a working poet. Her poems, often about women, range from an elegy for an aging centenarian with floor-length white hair to a fond recollection of the poet's mother, whom the family knew as the ''best tortilla maker west of the Mississippi.'' Sometimes it's a phrase, sometimes an idea that moves Zepeda; it might be 20 years before it's ready to be written down. She writes in two languages, as different from one another as a hawk and a thrush. An O'odham poem rendered in English, she advised, is more a complement than a translation. For all her learning and education, Zepeda, like many O'odham, lacks ''papers.'' She was born at home and has no official documentation of her origins. After the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, she's even had trouble traveling to Mexico, the land of her ancestors, without an affidavit testifying to her birth. ''Who was there when I breathed a first breath?'' she read to the audience from one of her poems. ''Who knew then I would need witnesses?'' Her parents, illiterate in English, ''spoke a language much too civil for writing,'' Zepeda said. Those words brought tears to the eyes of a woman who has picked cotton, published a grammar of O'odham, established an international name and fought the battle to keep a soaring language alive. From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU Wed Jan 4 18:42:19 2006 From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 11:42:19 -0700 Subject: Oneida language is on the move (fwd) Message-ID: Oneida language is on the move Posted: January 04, 2006 by: Melissa Gorelick http://www.indiancountry.com/content.cfm?id=1096412204 [Photo courtesy Oneida Indian Nation -- Ray George, Thames Oneida, is one of two ''native-fluent'' speakers of Oneida who was brought in and trained by Berlitz International to help start the Oneida Indian Nation of New York's language program. He assists with classes as the instructors become more fluent.] ONEIDA NATION HOMELANDS, N.Y. - Early on a wintry Monday, an Oneida classroom is filled with chirping voices and the smell of coffee. The morning's class is arriving. Eight women chat against the room's drawing-peppered walls while overhead, clock faces show the hours of the day in Oneida and over one woman's shoulder a sun and cloud demonstrate types of weather. Sunny Shenandoah teaches today's lesson, although the women take turns leading the class. She asks a question in Oneida, pointing to drawings taped to a whiteboard behind her. The other women answer, giggling and correcting each other's mistakes. Almost two years into the Oneida Nation's newest language initiative, classes have an easy, homey feel. Over coffee and chatter it's easy to forget that the program is one of the nation's most innovative efforts at reviving a dying Native language. Shenandoah's class is built on an immersion framework developed by Berlitz International, a well-known language education company. Following the lead of the Lakota Nation, the Oneidas are only the second Indian community to contract with Berlitz. They got the idea to find an immersion program by visiting a Mohawk program, said Sheri Beglen, an advanced member of the class and an experienced Oneida teacher. The Mohawks were already using immersion (though not through a contracted company), and Beglen said that seeing it in action was an enlightening experience. ''It was amazing to see little [Mohawk] kids walking around speaking their language,'' she said. Such a thing did not exist at the Oneida Nation. Shenandoah said that before this initiative began, there were only two families in the region who spoke any Oneida natively. Attempts to teach the language to non-Native speakers were failing. Deniz Ghrewati, a Berlitz instructor and spokesman, said that creating a comfort level in teachers is an essential part of the Berlitz program, what she calls the ''direct method.'' Before Berlitz, teachers with only minimal knowledge of the language were instructing others. ''Our goal was to get them thinking in the language,'' she said. ''By the end [of the first class] they were laughing and joking in Oneida. It was very emotional.'' Since their initial 25-week Oneida immersion course, the teachers' education continues in classes like Shenandoah's, which perpetuate this comfort and ease. Designing a program that led to this stage of immersion was no small feat, however, because the Berlitz method relies heavily on using ''native-fluent'' instructors. When dealing with a language spoken by only several hundred people on the North American continent, this isn't easy. Berlitz took revolutionary steps to find native Oneida speakers, said Ghrewati. It contacted a group of Oneidas living in the Thames River region of Canada, where Oneida is more commonly spoken, and flew two speakers to central New York to start the course. Before starting to teach, the two Thames Oneidas were coached extensively in the direct method of teaching. The instruction consists of listening and repetition, along with visual cues, like the ones Shenandoah uses in class. Ray George is one of the Thames Oneidas who began the central New York course. George has remained in New York to assist with the classes as the teachers become more and more fluent. He supports the women when they make mistakes, said Beglen. George said that the New York Oneidas, while new to the language, are making strides that surpass even other native-speaking Oneida groups. ''Overall, in the language being learned in the three Oneida groups, they are doing the best,'' he said. The New Yorkers are also some of the only Oneidas learning to read and write the language. Shenandoah said that the work with Berlitz has been exciting and personally rewarding. ''I just heard about this program and knew right away it's what I wanted to do,'' she said. ''I feel really proud of myself.'' Last summer, the Berlitz-revived Oneida language reached young Oneidas for the first time through several pilot programs. Shenandoah said that getting the language to kids early is the most effective way to create real fluency in the community. ''I'd really like to get it into schools,'' she said. The Stockbridge Valley Central School District, in Stockbridge Valley, N.Y., is just seven miles south of the Oneida Nation. Ten percent of the district's students are Oneida, said Superintendent Randy Richards. The district incorporates many aspects of the Oneida culture into the curriculum, he said, but so far it has been unable to integrate an Oneida language class into the schools. With the newfound success of the Oneida language program, that may all change. Richards said he would be very interested in employing a fluent Oneida speaker to teach children the language. Having finished their work, the women wrap up the day's lesson. They swing on their coats and purses, still discussing the verb ''to go'' as they chatter out the door. It's an appropriate verb, considering the dynamic nature of the Oneidas' new language plans. The program is going places, and fast. From MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US Wed Jan 4 19:54:19 2006 From: MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US (Mia Kalish) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 12:54:19 -0700 Subject: Keola Donaghy's very excellent paper In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Keola, I want to thank you very much for posting the link to this paper. I am writing one for my paper & workshop at SSILA this week-end, and having your excellent description of your experiences with technology for the implementation of your online classes was extremely useful in supporting my point about people are using technology to revitalize their languages. I think this is a very excellent paper (and I think everyone should read it). Best, Mia -----Original Message----- From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Keola Donaghy Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 12:02 PM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [ILAT] Informal Survey of Indigenous Online or Distance Learning Language Pro Aloha Jan, here's an online version on a paper I delivered at the DigitalStream conference at CSU-Monterey Bay a few years ago. It describes the development of our online Hawaiian classes. While there have been some changes, they have mostly been administrative. One major difference in the class delivery is that the online class now takes twice as much time to cover the same amount of material as our online classes. What is covered in one semester on campus is now covered in two online. That change has resulted in a far higher retention rate. http://www2.hawaii.edu/~donaghy/eng/digitalstream2003.html Keola jtucker at starband.net ma Friday, December 30, 2005 ma 8:37 PM ua k?kau ?o -1000: >Consider this an informal request for you to share with ILAT the work >you've done in teaching language from a distance. > >Tell us what you've been doing, and why, and when you got started >teaching language from a distance. > >Share your methods and the technology you use for delivery. > >Please feel free to share any lessons learned, advice or insights. > ======================================================================= Keola Donaghy Assistant Professor of Hawaiian Studies Ka Haka 'Ula O Ke'elikolani keola at leoki.uhh.hawaii.edu University of Hawai'i at Hilo http://www2.hawaii.edu/~donaghy/ ======================================================================= From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU Thu Jan 5 05:11:33 2006 From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 22:11:33 -0700 Subject: new font Message-ID: fyi, take a look at this interesting new font. Philcc Charis SIL Font Home http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&item_id=CharisSILfont From lachler at UNM.EDU Fri Jan 6 13:01:07 2006 From: lachler at UNM.EDU (Jordan Lachler) Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 04:01:07 -0900 Subject: flash sites Message-ID: For the flashmongers out there, here are a couple of sites doing some interesting stuff with flash and indigenous language learning. Gaelic http://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/alba/foghlam/beag_air_bheag/ Sami http://www.ur.se/ur/sok/frameset_web.html?/samasta/index.html Tlingit http://www.sealaskaheritage.org/programs/language_resources.htm --- Jordan From jtucker at starband.net Sat Jan 7 00:38:35 2006 From: jtucker at starband.net (Jan Tucker) Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 19:38:35 -0500 Subject: flash sites In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.1.20060104041150.045c8d80@mail.unm.edu> Message-ID: Thanks Jordan, I really enjoyed exploring all the different ways that flash can be used to teach language. I want to learn how to use it now. Do you know if there is any sharing of formats so you could use one format and plug in another language? This might be a naive question on my part, but I'm asking anyway. The sounds of Gaelic, Sami, and Inuit I believe where wonderful to hear and compare. This is some amazing work in my view. What a fun way to use the internet to learn language. Jan -----Original Message----- From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU]On Behalf Of Jordan Lachler Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 8:01 AM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: [ILAT] flash sites For the flashmongers out there, here are a couple of sites doing some interesting stuff with flash and indigenous language learning. Gaelic http://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/alba/foghlam/beag_air_bheag/ Sami http://www.ur.se/ur/sok/frameset_web.html?/samasta/index.html Tlingit http://www.sealaskaheritage.org/programs/language_resources.htm --- Jordan From isbae at UAA.ALASKA.EDU Sat Jan 7 01:16:57 2006 From: isbae at UAA.ALASKA.EDU (Brett Encelewski) Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 16:16:57 -0900 Subject: flash sites Message-ID: I would be very interested in knowing if the webmasters would be willing to share--as well--it would cut down on training, planning, and implementing costs as well as time. If these orgs are willing to share (for the greater good) it would keeps us from reinventing the wheel. > I want to learn how to use it now. > Do you > know if there is any sharing of formats so you could use one > format and plug > in another language? This might be a naive question on my part, > but I'm > asking anyway. BRETT A. ENCELEWSKI Language Archivist Kenaitze Indian Tribe, IRA Kenai, AK "A people with no history has no past, and therefore no future." --Robert A. Heinlen "Think globally, dream universally." --Unknown ----- Original Message ----- From: Jan Tucker Date: Friday, January 6, 2006 3:38 pm Subject: Re: [ILAT] flash sites > Thanks Jordan, I really enjoyed exploring all the different ways > that flash > can be used to teach language. I want to learn how to use it now. > Do you > know if there is any sharing of formats so you could use one > format and plug > in another language? This might be a naive question on my part, > but I'm > asking anyway. > > The sounds of Gaelic, Sami, and Inuit I believe where wonderful to > hear and > compare. This is some amazing work in my view. What a fun way to > use the > internet to learn language. > > Jan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Indigenous Languages and Technology > [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU]On Behalf Of Jordan Lachler > Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 8:01 AM > To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > Subject: [ILAT] flash sites > > > For the flashmongers out there, here are a couple of sites doing some > interesting stuff with flash and indigenous language learning. > > Gaelic > http://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/alba/foghlam/beag_air_bheag/ > > Sami > http://www.ur.se/ur/sok/frameset_web.html?/samasta/index.html > > Tlingit > http://www.sealaskaheritage.org/programs/language_resources.htm > > --- > Jordan > From MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US Sun Jan 8 03:45:45 2006 From: MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US (Mia Kalish) Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 20:45:45 -0700 Subject: flash sites In-Reply-To: <33d87233c69b.33c69b33d872@uaa.alaska.edu> Message-ID: Hello Brent in Kenai. I almost made it to Kenai a few years ago . . . hope to make it to AK sometime . . . I'm willing to share, even develop, but I don't want to do stuff that uses a bridge language. I think it's bad form. It also doesn't provide the opportunity for the brain to develop knowledge of syntactic and morphological patterns. The prime goal of 2L<-->Bridge is the 2L<-->Bridge relation. This doesn't help develop speakers. Flash forms could be developed for "plug-ins", but not easily for languages that use special fonts, since they have to be broken apart and regrouped into symbols, which I guess could be scripted, although selecting the text would be tricky. . . but then, the person using the plug in also has to be able to "copy" the language into the Flash environment. . . usually the fonts are the problem, because a) specialty fonts don't map to regular fonts, frequently because people have used the number keys; b) because without the break apart I mentioned, the user has to have the font on their machine to display the font correctly . . .(Flash 8 might have an imbed, but this is another sophisticated scripting option if the procedure is to be externalized for plug-in-ability). Sounds like a pain to me, and certainly not something I (personally) would want to spend my time on, since there are so much more interesting things to do. On the other hand. . . . I think it would be easier - and certainly more fun (at least for me) if there was a community who worked on the materials together. That way, people could have the fun of working together, software wouldn't have to be developed that tried to imagine how it might be used without knowing who all the users would be, and people wouldn't have to develop all the different expertises (See? I made up a word! Isn't it nice?) to be able to get their language projects off the ground. Also, as a community, we could develop some really interesting animated games that could work so people not only learned the language, but also the syntax and morphology. As a community, we would have the benefit of all that creativity. I met a man at the conference, he's Miami, and he did some cool flash-card games for learning morphology. And it worked; the kids were able to figure out the patterns without someone having to hammer them into their heads. This would be cool, and the games could be reusable for all languages with particular forms. With lots of formlets, people could pick and choose to suit their individual languages. For example, both Miami and Southern Athapascan have a collection of words that are effectively stems and cannot be used correctly without the personal prefix. So a Body Part game could be used for Miami, Chiricahua, Lipan, Navajo, and Mescalero and all the other languages that have this form. See? I have number games on my website at LearningForPeople.us that work for Welsh, Estonian, Spanish, English, and maybe soon Navajo and Apache. It takes about 6 hours to do the car puzzle and the 6-format number practice. So if people can do the numbers 1-100 in their languages, and they can do the recordings of the numbers and send them to me appropriately labeled, they can have games in a few days. Is that a good share? Mia -----Original Message----- From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Brett Encelewski Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 6:17 PM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [ILAT] flash sites I would be very interested in knowing if the webmasters would be willing to share--as well--it would cut down on training, planning, and implementing costs as well as time. If these orgs are willing to share (for the greater good) it would keeps us from reinventing the wheel. > I want to learn how to use it now. > Do you > know if there is any sharing of formats so you could use one > format and plug > in another language? This might be a naive question on my part, > but I'm > asking anyway. BRETT A. ENCELEWSKI Language Archivist Kenaitze Indian Tribe, IRA Kenai, AK "A people with no history has no past, and therefore no future." --Robert A. Heinlen "Think globally, dream universally." --Unknown ----- Original Message ----- From: Jan Tucker Date: Friday, January 6, 2006 3:38 pm Subject: Re: [ILAT] flash sites > Thanks Jordan, I really enjoyed exploring all the different ways > that flash > can be used to teach language. I want to learn how to use it now. > Do you > know if there is any sharing of formats so you could use one > format and plug > in another language? This might be a naive question on my part, > but I'm > asking anyway. > > The sounds of Gaelic, Sami, and Inuit I believe where wonderful to > hear and > compare. This is some amazing work in my view. What a fun way to > use the > internet to learn language. > > Jan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Indigenous Languages and Technology > [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU]On Behalf Of Jordan Lachler > Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 8:01 AM > To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > Subject: [ILAT] flash sites > > > For the flashmongers out there, here are a couple of sites doing some > interesting stuff with flash and indigenous language learning. > > Gaelic > http://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/alba/foghlam/beag_air_bheag/ > > Sami > http://www.ur.se/ur/sok/frameset_web.html?/samasta/index.html > > Tlingit > http://www.sealaskaheritage.org/programs/language_resources.htm > > --- > Jordan > From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU Sun Jan 8 06:32:17 2006 From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash) Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 23:32:17 -0700 Subject: Keeping a language alive (fwd) Message-ID: Keeping a language alive Squamish Elders circle around the issue Saturday, January 7, 2006 By Reporter Jane Emerick Special to the Chief http://www.squamishchief.com/madison%5CWQuestion.nsf/0/298A8C1658543744882570EE00247B9B?OpenDocument Only two elders in the Squamish Valley retain the ability to fluently speak Squamish Nation?s language. Alex Williams and Addie Kermeen are the two remaining Squamish Valley citizens who can still speak their native language, and they?re trying to pass on their knowledge. Several Squamish Valley elders are working towards teaching their people and the community about the Squamish Nation culture. And they say their native language plays a large role in this education. ?You can?t teach our culture without our language,? said Shirley (Hum-Te-Ya) Toman. ?Teaching our children in English makes it harder.? Thanks to residential schools and the Canadian government?s history of trying to assimilate the First Nations Peoples, the language has been virtually wiped out. In the schools, First Nation?s children were not allowed to speak their native languages and would be punished for doing so. ?You were strapped or put in the closet,? said Toman, who spent five years at St. Paul?s residential school in North Vancouver. ?Some had their tongues pierced with a pin and told it was so they would remember to not speak their language.? Toman said she had already lost the language when she attended residential school because she was the second generation of attendees and her parents had been told to not teach their children their native tongue. ?We didn?t learn the language because it would threaten our living standards at the schools,? she said. ?By not knowing the language we couldn?t be punished for speaking it at the schools.? Both Kermeen and Williams were able to avoid attending the confines of Canada?s residential schools by escaping the Provincial police who enforced First Nation?s children to attend residential schools from 1879 to 1986. ?They hid me away,? said Williams, speaking of his parents and the elders in his community. Toman, Kermeem, and Williams are all members of the Squamish Valley Elder?s Circle, who came together, along with six others, 14 years ago to help heal the suffering they endured at the residential schools. ?I lost everything my parents taught me at those schools,? said Marjery (Lats-Mat) Natrall, a Squamish Elder who attended St. Paul?s. ?And once you loose it you can never get it back.? Bob Baker, a Squamish Elder, spent seven years at St. Michael?s residential school in Alert Bay and said the government went so far as to split up children from the same communities so they wouldn?t be able to speak to each other in their different native languages. ?In order to get our people out of the language and the culture they moved us to where nobody spoke our language,? he said. ?My Dad said there is no use teaching you [the language] you will only go back to school and get beat up,? said Chief Eleanor Andrews, who spent eight years at the Sechelt residential school and is a member of the Squamish Elders. Andrews said she still knows some of her native words but it has become difficult for her to pronounce them. The Squamish Valley education department is working in the community to preserve the native language. Native dance classes are held twice a month at Totem Hall, where the Squamish language is incorporated as a part of the singing and drumming. Williams was involved with the education department in the creation of a CD ROM that teaches about the Squamish language. The CD was created through a grant from the First Peoples Language and Culture Council in Victoria. ?We are in the process of creating our second language CD ROM,? said Rose Reimer, the administrative coordinator for the Squamish Valley Education department. She said preserving the Squamish Nation language is important because it teaches First Nation?s children in the community about their history. ?For our children to succeed they need to know who they are and where they come from and they have to remember the elders and the ancestors that came before them and what their struggles were and to honor that,? she said. Reimer said she believes the strength of Squamish?s language will continue to grow. ?As long as we have the recordings and people are willing to learn, the future of the language will always be there,? she said. From pasxapu at DAKOTACOM.NET Mon Jan 9 17:35:47 2006 From: pasxapu at DAKOTACOM.NET (phil cash cash) Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 10:35:47 -0700 Subject: no news from the LSA... Message-ID: Greetings ILAT, I am a bit surprised that there is virually no news coming out from the LSA conference this past week. The only news item I saw today was the "word of the year" which seems a bit trivial but particularly news worthy. Nevertheless, we should continue to draw attention to the plight of the world's endangered languages. Phil Cash Cash UofA, ILAT From isbae at UAA.ALASKA.EDU Mon Jan 9 18:22:54 2006 From: isbae at UAA.ALASKA.EDU (Brett Encelewski) Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 09:22:54 -0900 Subject: flash sites Message-ID: Mia, thank you so much for your response and for the information--I will pass this on to our more technical people and partners. We are just now starting to gain outlook for incorporating Flash components into our Dena'ina Athabascan language learning site. I think that a community-based effort to develop these types of technological/ software applications to language learning would be a very good idea (as you said). BRETT A. ENCELEWSKI "A people with no history has no past, and therefore no future." --Robert A. Heinlen "Think globally, dream universally." --Unknown ----- Original Message ----- From: Mia Kalish Date: Saturday, January 7, 2006 6:45 pm Subject: Re: [ILAT] flash sites > Hello Brent in Kenai. > > I almost made it to Kenai a few years ago . . . hope to make it to AK > sometime . . . > > I'm willing to share, even develop, but I don't want to do stuff > that uses a > bridge language. I think it's bad form. It also doesn't provide the > opportunity for the brain to develop knowledge of syntactic and > morphological patterns. The prime goal of 2L<-->Bridge is the 2L<-- > >Bridgerelation. This doesn't help develop speakers. > > Flash forms could be developed for "plug-ins", but not easily for > languagesthat use special fonts, since they have to be broken > apart and regrouped > into symbols, which I guess could be scripted, although selecting > the text > would be tricky. . . but then, the person using the plug in also > has to be > able to "copy" the language into the Flash environment. . . > usually the > fonts are the problem, because a) specialty fonts don't map to regular > fonts, frequently because people have used the number keys; b) because > without the break apart I mentioned, the user has to have the font > on their > machine to display the font correctly . . .(Flash 8 might have an > imbed, but > this is another sophisticated scripting option if the procedure is > to be > externalized for plug-in-ability). Sounds like a pain to me, and > certainlynot something I (personally) would want to spend my time > on, since there are > so much more interesting things to do. > > On the other hand. . . . > > I think it would be easier - and certainly more fun (at least for > me) if > there was a community who worked on the materials together. That > way, people > could have the fun of working together, software wouldn't have to be > developed that tried to imagine how it might be used without > knowing who all > the users would be, and people wouldn't have to develop all the > differentexpertises (See? I made up a word! Isn't it nice?) to be > able to get their > language projects off the ground. > > Also, as a community, we could develop some really interesting > animatedgames that could work so people not only learned the > language, but also the > syntax and morphology. As a community, we would have the benefit > of all that > creativity. I met a man at the conference, he's Miami, and he did > some cool > flash-card games for learning morphology. And it worked; the kids > were able > to figure out the patterns without someone having to hammer them > into their > heads. This would be cool, and the games could be reusable for all > languageswith particular forms. With lots of formlets, people > could pick and choose > to suit their individual languages. For example, both Miami and > SouthernAthapascan have a collection of words that are effectively > stems and cannot > be used correctly without the personal prefix. So a Body Part game > could be > used for Miami, Chiricahua, Lipan, Navajo, and Mescalero and all > the other > languages that have this form. See? > > I have number games on my website at LearningForPeople.us that > work for > Welsh, Estonian, Spanish, English, and maybe soon Navajo and > Apache. It > takes about 6 hours to do the car puzzle and the 6-format number > practice.So if people can do the numbers 1-100 in their languages, > and they can do > the recordings of the numbers and send them to me appropriately > labeled,they can have games in a few days. Is that a good > share? > > Mia > > -----Original Message----- > From: Indigenous Languages and Technology > [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU]On Behalf Of Brett Encelewski > Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 6:17 PM > To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > Subject: Re: [ILAT] flash sites > > I would be very interested in knowing if the webmasters would be > willing to share--as well--it would cut down on training, > planning, > and implementing costs as well as time. If these orgs are willing > to > share (for the greater good) it would keeps us from reinventing > the > wheel. > > > I want to learn how to use it now. > > Do you > > know if there is any sharing of formats so you could use one > > format and plug > > in another language? This might be a naive question on my part, > > but I'm > > asking anyway. > > BRETT A. ENCELEWSKI > Language Archivist > Kenaitze Indian Tribe, IRA > Kenai, AK > > "A people with no history has no past, and therefore no future." > --Robert A. Heinlen > > "Think globally, dream universally." > --Unknown > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jan Tucker > Date: Friday, January 6, 2006 3:38 pm > Subject: Re: [ILAT] flash sites > > > Thanks Jordan, I really enjoyed exploring all the different ways > > that flash > > can be used to teach language. I want to learn how to use it > now. > > Do you > > know if there is any sharing of formats so you could use one > > format and plug > > in another language? This might be a naive question on my part, > > but I'm > > asking anyway. > > > > The sounds of Gaelic, Sami, and Inuit I believe where wonderful > to > > hear and > > compare. This is some amazing work in my view. What a fun way to > > use the > > internet to learn language. > > > > Jan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Indigenous Languages and Technology > > [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU]On Behalf Of Jordan Lachler > > Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 8:01 AM > > To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > > Subject: [ILAT] flash sites > > > > > > For the flashmongers out there, here are a couple of sites doing > some> interesting stuff with flash and indigenous language learning. > > > > Gaelic > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/alba/foghlam/beag_air_bheag/ > > > > Sami > > http://www.ur.se/ur/sok/frameset_web.html?/samasta/index.html > > > > Tlingit > > http://www.sealaskaheritage.org/programs/language_resources.htm > > > > --- > > Jordan > > > From MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US Mon Jan 9 19:10:56 2006 From: MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US (Mia Kalish) Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 12:10:56 -0700 Subject: no news from the LSA... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: We were having too much fun going to presentations, giving presentations, recovering from presentations, meeting new friends, . . . And, in my case. . . . talking about revitalization software and who wants to build it :-) A good time was had by all. Sorry we left you out. . . we apologize. Mia -----Original Message----- From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of phil cash cash Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 10:36 AM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: [ILAT] no news from the LSA... Greetings ILAT, I am a bit surprised that there is virually no news coming out from the LSA conference this past week. The only news item I saw today was the "word of the year" which seems a bit trivial but particularly news worthy. Nevertheless, we should continue to draw attention to the plight of the world's endangered languages. Phil Cash Cash UofA, ILAT From pasxapu at DAKOTACOM.NET Mon Jan 9 19:38:17 2006 From: pasxapu at DAKOTACOM.NET (phil cash cash) Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 12:38:17 -0700 Subject: no news from the LSA... In-Reply-To: <20060109191104.10C351B7F@listserv.arizona.edu> Message-ID: it wasn't me that was left out, it was our endangered languages and i am sorry too. glad to hear you all had a good time though. Philcc On Jan 9, 2006, at 12:10 PM, Mia Kalish wrote: > We were having too much fun going to presentations, giving > presentations, > recovering from presentations, meeting new friends, . . . And, in my > case. > . . . talking about revitalization software and who wants to build it > :-) > > A good time was had by all. Sorry we left you out. . . we apologize. > head humbly> > > Mia > > -----Original Message----- > From: Indigenous Languages and Technology > [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] > On Behalf Of phil cash cash > Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 10:36 AM > To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > Subject: [ILAT] no news from the LSA... > > Greetings ILAT, > > I am a bit surprised that there is virually no news coming out from the > LSA conference this past week. The only news item I saw today was the > "word of the year" which seems a bit trivial but particularly news > worthy. Nevertheless, we should continue to draw attention to the > plight of the world's endangered languages. > > Phil Cash Cash > UofA, ILAT > From langendt at U.ARIZONA.EDU Mon Jan 9 19:50:08 2006 From: langendt at U.ARIZONA.EDU (Terry Langendoen) Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 12:50:08 -0700 Subject: no news from the LSA... In-Reply-To: <0d718a1de3839d00c1e4590699378344@dakotacom.net> Message-ID: Press coverage of LSA meetings has historically been nearly nonexistent, except when some language issue was in the news around our meeting time, most notably the Ebonics controversy in the late 90s. We might want to encourage LSA to put out press releases about topics of interest about the annual meeting (e.g. workshops and symposia on endangered languages) in the future. Coverage of the Word of the Year has been going on for about a decade -- but that's the doing of the American Dialect Society that meets together with LSA. Terry On Mon, 9 Jan 2006, phil cash cash wrote: > it wasn't me that was left out, it was our endangered languages and i > am sorry too. glad to hear you all had a good time though. > > Philcc > > On Jan 9, 2006, at 12:10 PM, Mia Kalish wrote: > > > We were having too much fun going to presentations, giving > > presentations, > > recovering from presentations, meeting new friends, . . . And, in my > > case. > > . . . talking about revitalization software and who wants to build it > > :-) > > > > A good time was had by all. Sorry we left you out. . . we apologize. > > > head humbly> > > > > Mia > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Indigenous Languages and Technology > > [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] > > On Behalf Of phil cash cash > > Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 10:36 AM > > To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > > Subject: [ILAT] no news from the LSA... > > > > Greetings ILAT, > > > > I am a bit surprised that there is virually no news coming out from the > > LSA conference this past week. The only news item I saw today was the > > "word of the year" which seems a bit trivial but particularly news > > worthy. Nevertheless, we should continue to draw attention to the > > plight of the world's endangered languages. > > > > Phil Cash Cash > > UofA, ILAT > > > Terry Langendoen, Professor Emeritus, Dept of Linguistics, Univ of Arizona P O Box 210028, 1100 E University Blvd, Tucson AZ 85721-0028 USA Phone: +1 520.621.6898 Fax: +1 520.626.9014 Homepage http://linguistics.arizona.edu/~langendoen From MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US Mon Jan 9 22:02:34 2006 From: MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US (Mia Kalish) Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 15:02:34 -0700 Subject: no news from the LSA... In-Reply-To: <0d718a1de3839d00c1e4590699378344@dakotacom.net> Message-ID: Hi, Phil, I want to assure you that we did lots and lots and lots about endangered languages. We talked about them; we talked about how documentation efforts that do not include an eye and support for revitalization are unethical. We shared our ways and concepts of building revitalization materials. Numbers of us made plans to work together to produce publishable research in revitalization, especially as we can be using the internet, because not everyone who is interested in a particular topic or aspect is in the same physical locale either with others who have the same interest, or with others who know the solution or approach. We talked about involving communities, we talked about empowering communities. We talked about building teams, and how those teams should be and work. We talked about tools for field work, and tools for archiving. It's true that a large portion of both LSA and SSILA were dominated by linguistic elements, but there was a recognizable chunk devoted to the revitalization issue. Some people, not everyone, but lots of people, are realizing that we have to make sure these languages don't end up on museum shelves, but back in the community. We even in some places made tiny little headways into issues of language extension. The success of the Maori was one of the shining stars that gave people something to think about. My presentation was about how we have no language for math and science. I showed my materials, and how difficult it was to find words for shapes, and how difficult it was to find people to record the sounds of the words we do have for numbers. If the languages don't move into contemporary use, they WILL die, and people are starting to talk about that. Interestingly enough, it is the younger grad students who seem to find this concept intuitively obvious. I don't know why that is, but the people who needed no explanation were people who were in their 20's, and who were coping with complex issues in the field, sometimes in South America, sometimes locally with diverse populations. We also talked about how Indigenous Languages need to be taught in schools, both public and private, and we talked about how Indigenous scholars, people like Mary Eunice Romero, are writing Indigenous pedagogies. There need to be more Indigenous scholars writing about Indigenous pedagogies. Sandy Grande also writes about Indigenous pedagogies; she calls it Red Pedagogy. She is a critical race theorist, actually. But the bottom line is that the world NEEDS TO KNOW that you don't teach Ndn kids the way you teach white kids. Vine and Daniel Wildcat have been saying that for a long time, and so have the Smiths, and Devon Mihesuah. We also need more research that shows that if you give people crappy materials, they won't learn very well. We need research that helps others understand what the technical term "crappy material" means in the context of teaching and learning. Did you ever notice how people seldom if ever evaluate their materials, but they are very ready to use these same, uncritically accepted materials, to make people less than? Anyway, that's the gist of the conference. This is also the gist of where some of us are going (while others, who shall remain nameless of course, are going to sojourn among the beautiful trout in the equally beautiful Snake River in spectacular nearly-southern Idaho. (But of course we aren't saying WHO, EXACTLY, is doing that. . . . . lalalalalaaaaaa. Send us pictures, okay? I love trout, especially the living, breathing, swimming kind.) Best, Mia -----Original Message----- From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of phil cash cash Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 12:38 PM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [ILAT] no news from the LSA... it wasn't me that was left out, it was our endangered languages and i am sorry too. glad to hear you all had a good time though. Philcc On Jan 9, 2006, at 12:10 PM, Mia Kalish wrote: > We were having too much fun going to presentations, giving > presentations, > recovering from presentations, meeting new friends, . . . And, in my > case. > . . . talking about revitalization software and who wants to build it > :-) > > A good time was had by all. Sorry we left you out. . . we apologize. > head humbly> > > Mia > > -----Original Message----- > From: Indigenous Languages and Technology > [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] > On Behalf Of phil cash cash > Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 10:36 AM > To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > Subject: [ILAT] no news from the LSA... > > Greetings ILAT, > > I am a bit surprised that there is virually no news coming out from the > LSA conference this past week. The only news item I saw today was the > "word of the year" which seems a bit trivial but particularly news > worthy. Nevertheless, we should continue to draw attention to the > plight of the world's endangered languages. > > Phil Cash Cash > UofA, ILAT > From susan.penfield at GMAIL.COM Tue Jan 10 01:07:11 2006 From: susan.penfield at GMAIL.COM (Susan Penfield) Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 18:07:11 -0700 Subject: no news from the LSA... In-Reply-To: <20060109220245.F12422A61@listserv.arizona.edu> Message-ID: All, Mia is right on -- Our session on Sunday was devoted to much of this. It was the last LSA session which was both good and bad -- On the bad side, many of the key players who were at LSA and would have attended (Leanne Hinton, Keren Rice, Wilhelm Meya --and many others )--expressed regrets in having to leave early ).However, many others stayed for that event and participated --as well, we had others in attendance who might not have been there if other talks had been taking place. Christine Sims spoke eloquently about many issues and the evolving history of language education from the community perspective; the folks from the Indigenous Language Institute also did a great job of sharing their ongoing work -- half of the audience (about 50) stayed to watch Brenda McKenna's video from Nambe pueblo (which was beautifully done). I do think that the profile for endangered languages was raised at this LSA (beginning with the airing of "the Last Speakers" on Thursday night.) BUT -- I would like to underscore that the story hardly begins or ends at LSA -- and that it remains up to all of us to keep the interest going. The next LSA, I'm told, will be in Anaheim next January. That's not so far away in either time or distance (for many of us) ...NOW is the time to start thinking about how to keep the energy going into next year!! I believe abstracts are due in April ...so it might be great to propose a special session on Indigenous Languages and technology related to both documentation and revitalization (or something like that)... Best, Susan On 1/9/06, Mia Kalish wrote: > > Hi, Phil, > > I want to assure you that we did lots and lots and lots about endangered > languages. We talked about them; we talked about how documentation efforts > that do not include an eye and support for revitalization are unethical. > We > shared our ways and concepts of building revitalization materials. Numbers > of us made plans to work together to produce publishable research in > revitalization, especially as we can be using the internet, because not > everyone who is interested in a particular topic or aspect is in the same > physical locale either with others who have the same interest, or with > others who know the solution or approach. > > We talked about involving communities, we talked about empowering > communities. We talked about building teams, and how those teams should be > and work. We talked about tools for field work, and tools for archiving. > > It's true that a large portion of both LSA and SSILA were dominated by > linguistic elements, but there was a recognizable chunk devoted to the > revitalization issue. Some people, not everyone, but lots of people, are > realizing that we have to make sure these languages don't end up on museum > shelves, but back in the community. > > We even in some places made tiny little headways into issues of language > extension. The success of the Maori was one of the shining stars that gave > people something to think about. My presentation was about how we have no > language for math and science. I showed my materials, and how difficult it > was to find words for shapes, and how difficult it was to find people to > record the sounds of the words we do have for numbers. > > If the languages don't move into contemporary use, they WILL die, and > people > are starting to talk about that. Interestingly enough, it is the younger > grad students who seem to find this concept intuitively obvious. I don't > know why that is, but the people who needed no explanation were people who > were in their 20's, and who were coping with complex issues in the field, > sometimes in South America, sometimes locally with diverse populations. > > We also talked about how Indigenous Languages need to be taught in > schools, > both public and private, and we talked about how Indigenous scholars, > people > like Mary Eunice Romero, are writing Indigenous pedagogies. There need to > be > more Indigenous scholars writing about Indigenous pedagogies. Sandy Grande > also writes about Indigenous pedagogies; she calls it Red Pedagogy. She is > a > critical race theorist, actually. But the bottom line is that the world > NEEDS TO KNOW that you don't teach Ndn kids the way you teach white kids. > Vine and Daniel Wildcat have been saying that for a long time, and so have > the Smiths, and Devon Mihesuah. > > We also need more research that shows that if you give people crappy > materials, they won't learn very well. We need research that helps others > understand what the technical term "crappy material" means in the context > of > teaching and learning. Did you ever notice how people seldom if ever > evaluate their materials, but they are very ready to use these same, > uncritically accepted materials, to make people less than? > > Anyway, that's the gist of the conference. This is also the gist of where > some of us are going (while others, who shall remain nameless of course, > are > going to sojourn among the beautiful trout in the equally beautiful Snake > River in spectacular nearly-southern Idaho. (But of course we aren't > saying > WHO, EXACTLY, is doing that. . . . . lalalalalaaaaaa. Send us pictures, > okay? I love trout, especially the living, breathing, swimming kind.) > > Best, > Mia > > -----Original Message----- > From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto: > ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] > On Behalf Of phil cash cash > Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 12:38 PM > To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > Subject: Re: [ILAT] no news from the LSA... > > it wasn't me that was left out, it was our endangered languages and i > am sorry too. glad to hear you all had a good time though. > > Philcc > > On Jan 9, 2006, at 12:10 PM, Mia Kalish wrote: > > > We were having too much fun going to presentations, giving > > presentations, > > recovering from presentations, meeting new friends, . . . And, in my > > case. > > . . . talking about revitalization software and who wants to build it > > :-) > > > > A good time was had by all. Sorry we left you out. . . we apologize. > > > head humbly> > > > > Mia > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Indigenous Languages and Technology > > [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] > > On Behalf Of phil cash cash > > Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 10:36 AM > > To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > > Subject: [ILAT] no news from the LSA... > > > > Greetings ILAT, > > > > I am a bit surprised that there is virually no news coming out from the > > LSA conference this past week. The only news item I saw today was the > > "word of the year" which seems a bit trivial but particularly news > > worthy. Nevertheless, we should continue to draw attention to the > > plight of the world's endangered languages. > > > > Phil Cash Cash > > UofA, ILAT > > > -- Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. Department of English Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program American Indian Language Development Institute Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US Tue Jan 10 01:22:07 2006 From: MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US (Mia Kalish) Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 18:22:07 -0700 Subject: LSA 2006 In-Reply-To: <39a679e20601091707v4c2b39dkc1496e646a6101ed@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Are you volunteering to organize a session . . . .?????? What if we organized 2 sessions, to support each other. How about this--> You do a session about how Documentation Should Be Designed with an Eye Toward Revitalization . . . and I'll organize a session for all the people working in Revitalization about How Documentation Supports and Impedes Our Efforts. Those of us who do revitalization depend heavily on what is learned and collected by the people who are working on the documentation. I know in my case, I have a really hard time doing materials for math because the collected knowledge is so sparse. There is all kinds of physical evidence that STEM was alive and well in Indigenous communities, and we have Nearly Nothing in terms of elicitations to support that. I would also like to show others how we are using the web to network our revitalization efforts, sharing text, sound, designs, movies and learning across wide distances. How about: Documentation, Technology & the Web: Effects on Revitalization Efforts :-) Mia _____ From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Susan Penfield Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 6:07 PM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [ILAT] no news from the LSA... All, Mia is right on -- Our session on Sunday was devoted to much of this. It was the last LSA session which was both good and bad -- On the bad side, many of the key players who were at LSA and would have attended (Leanne Hinton, Keren Rice, Wilhelm Meya --and many others )--expressed regrets in having to leave early ).However, many others stayed for that event and participated --as well, we had others in attendance who might not have been there if other talks had been taking place. Christine Sims spoke eloquently about many issues and the evolving history of language education from the community perspective; the folks from the Indigenous Language Institute also did a great job of sharing their ongoing work -- half of the audience (about 50) stayed to watch Brenda McKenna's video from Nambe pueblo (which was beautifully done). I do think that the profile for endangered languages was raised at this LSA (beginning with the airing of "the Last Speakers" on Thursday night.) BUT -- I would like to underscore that the story hardly begins or ends at LSA -- and that it remains up to all of us to keep the interest going. The next LSA, I'm told, will be in Anaheim next January. That's not so far away in either time or distance (for many of us) ...NOW is the time to start thinking about how to keep the energy going into next year!! I believe abstracts are due in April ...so it might be great to propose a special session on Indigenous Languages and technology related to both documentation and revitalization (or something like that)... Best, Susan On 1/9/06, Mia Kalish wrote: Hi, Phil, I want to assure you that we did lots and lots and lots about endangered languages. We talked about them; we talked about how documentation efforts that do not include an eye and support for revitalization are unethical. We shared our ways and concepts of building revitalization materials. Numbers of us made plans to work together to produce publishable research in revitalization, especially as we can be using the internet, because not everyone who is interested in a particular topic or aspect is in the same physical locale either with others who have the same interest, or with others who know the solution or approach. We talked about involving communities, we talked about empowering communities. We talked about building teams, and how those teams should be and work. We talked about tools for field work, and tools for archiving. It's true that a large portion of both LSA and SSILA were dominated by linguistic elements, but there was a recognizable chunk devoted to the revitalization issue. Some people, not everyone, but lots of people, are realizing that we have to make sure these languages don't end up on museum shelves, but back in the community. We even in some places made tiny little headways into issues of language extension. The success of the Maori was one of the shining stars that gave people something to think about. My presentation was about how we have no language for math and science. I showed my materials, and how difficult it was to find words for shapes, and how difficult it was to find people to record the sounds of the words we do have for numbers. If the languages don't move into contemporary use, they WILL die, and people are starting to talk about that. Interestingly enough, it is the younger grad students who seem to find this concept intuitively obvious. I don't know why that is, but the people who needed no explanation were people who were in their 20's, and who were coping with complex issues in the field, sometimes in South America, sometimes locally with diverse populations. We also talked about how Indigenous Languages need to be taught in schools, both public and private, and we talked about how Indigenous scholars, people like Mary Eunice Romero, are writing Indigenous pedagogies. There need to be more Indigenous scholars writing about Indigenous pedagogies. Sandy Grande also writes about Indigenous pedagogies; she calls it Red Pedagogy. She is a critical race theorist, actually. But the bottom line is that the world NEEDS TO KNOW that you don't teach Ndn kids the way you teach white kids. Vine and Daniel Wildcat have been saying that for a long time, and so have the Smiths, and Devon Mihesuah. We also need more research that shows that if you give people crappy materials, they won't learn very well. We need research that helps others understand what the technical term "crappy material" means in the context of teaching and learning. Did you ever notice how people seldom if ever evaluate their materials, but they are very ready to use these same, uncritically accepted materials, to make people less than? Anyway, that's the gist of the conference. This is also the gist of where some of us are going (while others, who shall remain nameless of course, are going to sojourn among the beautiful trout in the equally beautiful Snake River in spectacular nearly-southern Idaho. (But of course we aren't saying WHO, EXACTLY, is doing that. . . . . lalalalalaaaaaa. Send us pictures, okay? I love trout, especially the living, breathing, swimming kind.) Best, Mia -----Original Message----- From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of phil cash cash Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 12:38 PM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [ILAT] no news from the LSA... it wasn't me that was left out, it was our endangered languages and i am sorry too. glad to hear you all had a good time though. Philcc On Jan 9, 2006, at 12:10 PM, Mia Kalish wrote: > We were having too much fun going to presentations, giving > presentations, > recovering from presentations, meeting new friends, . . . And, in my > case. > . . . talking about revitalization software and who wants to build it > :-) > > A good time was had by all. Sorry we left you out. . . we apologize. > head humbly> > > Mia > > -----Original Message----- > From: Indigenous Languages and Technology > [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] > On Behalf Of phil cash cash > Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 10:36 AM > To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > Subject: [ILAT] no news from the LSA... > > Greetings ILAT, > > I am a bit surprised that there is virually no news coming out from the > LSA conference this past week. The only news item I saw today was the > "word of the year" which seems a bit trivial but particularly news > worthy. Nevertheless, we should continue to draw attention to the > plight of the world's endangered languages. > > Phil Cash Cash > UofA, ILAT > -- Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. Department of English Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program American Indian Language Development Institute Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From susan.penfield at GMAIL.COM Tue Jan 10 01:37:49 2006 From: susan.penfield at GMAIL.COM (Susan Penfield) Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 18:37:49 -0700 Subject: LSA 2006 In-Reply-To: <20060110012224.D436F2665@listserv.arizona.edu> Message-ID: Maybe...I'll think about it-- We have to think about the audience who is interested === SSILA and / LSA or both? It would be nice to have back to back sessions -- AND I really think we still need to have something which invites the inclusion of community members... S. On 1/9/06, Mia Kalish wrote: > > Are you volunteering to organize a session . . . .?????? > > > > What if we organized 2 sessions, to support each other. How about this? > > You do a session about how Documentation Should Be Designed > with an Eye Toward Revitalization > > > > . . . and I'll organize a session for all the people working in > Revitalization about > > How Documentation Supports and Impedes Our Efforts. > > > > Those of us who do revitalization depend heavily on what is learned and > collected by the people who are working on the documentation. I know in my > case, I have a really hard time doing materials for math because the > collected knowledge is so sparse. There is all kinds of physical evidence > that STEM was alive and well in Indigenous communities, and we have Nearly > Nothing in terms of elicitations to support that. > > > > I would also like to show others how we are using the web to network our > revitalization efforts, sharing text, sound, designs, movies and learning > across wide distances. > > > > How about: Documentation, Technology & the Web: Effects on Revitalization > Efforts > > > > J > > > > Mia > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto: > ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Susan Penfield > *Sent:* Monday, January 09, 2006 6:07 PM > *To:* ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > *Subject:* Re: [ILAT] no news from the LSA... > > > > All, > > Mia is right on -- Our session on Sunday was devoted to much of this. It > was the last LSA session which was both good and bad -- On the bad side, > many of the key players who were at LSA and would have attended (Leanne > Hinton, Keren Rice, Wilhelm Meya --and many others )--expressed regrets in > having to leave early ).However, many others stayed for that event and > participated --as well, we had others in attendance who might not have been > there if other talks had been taking place. Christine Sims spoke eloquently > about many issues and the evolving history of language education from the > community perspective; the folks from the Indigenous Language Institute also > did a great job of sharing their ongoing work -- half of the audience (about > 50) stayed to watch Brenda McKenna's video from Nambe pueblo (which was > beautifully done). > > > > I do think that the profile for endangered languages was raised at this > LSA (beginning with the airing of "the Last Speakers" on Thursday night.) > BUT -- I would like to underscore that the story hardly begins or ends at > LSA -- and that it remains up to all of us to keep the interest going. > > > > The next LSA, I'm told, will be in Anaheim next January. That's not so far > away in either time or distance (for many of us) ...NOW is the time to start > thinking about how to keep the energy going into next year!! I believe > abstracts are due in April ...so it might be great to propose a special > session on Indigenous Languages and technology related to both documentation > and revitalization (or something like that)... > > > Best, > > Susan > > > On 1/9/06, *Mia Kalish* wrote: > > Hi, Phil, > > I want to assure you that we did lots and lots and lots about endangered > languages. We talked about them; we talked about how documentation efforts > > that do not include an eye and support for revitalization are unethical. > We > shared our ways and concepts of building revitalization materials. Numbers > of us made plans to work together to produce publishable research in > revitalization, especially as we can be using the internet, because not > everyone who is interested in a particular topic or aspect is in the same > physical locale either with others who have the same interest, or with > others who know the solution or approach. > > We talked about involving communities, we talked about empowering > communities. We talked about building teams, and how those teams should be > and work. We talked about tools for field work, and tools for archiving. > > It's true that a large portion of both LSA and SSILA were dominated by > linguistic elements, but there was a recognizable chunk devoted to the > revitalization issue. Some people, not everyone, but lots of people, are > realizing that we have to make sure these languages don't end up on museum > shelves, but back in the community. > > We even in some places made tiny little headways into issues of language > extension. The success of the Maori was one of the shining stars that gave > > people something to think about. My presentation was about how we have no > language for math and science. I showed my materials, and how difficult it > was to find words for shapes, and how difficult it was to find people to > record the sounds of the words we do have for numbers. > > If the languages don't move into contemporary use, they WILL die, and > people > are starting to talk about that. Interestingly enough, it is the younger > grad students who seem to find this concept intuitively obvious. I don't > know why that is, but the people who needed no explanation were people who > were in their 20's, and who were coping with complex issues in the field, > sometimes in South America, sometimes locally with diverse populations. > > We also talked about how Indigenous Languages need to be taught in > schools, > both public and private, and we talked about how Indigenous scholars, > people > like Mary Eunice Romero, are writing Indigenous pedagogies. There need to > be > more Indigenous scholars writing about Indigenous pedagogies. Sandy Grande > also writes about Indigenous pedagogies; she calls it Red Pedagogy. She is > a > critical race theorist, actually. But the bottom line is that the world > NEEDS TO KNOW that you don't teach Ndn kids the way you teach white kids. > Vine and Daniel Wildcat have been saying that for a long time, and so have > > the Smiths, and Devon Mihesuah. > > We also need more research that shows that if you give people crappy > materials, they won't learn very well. We need research that helps others > understand what the technical term "crappy material" means in the context > of > teaching and learning. Did you ever notice how people seldom if ever > evaluate their materials, but they are very ready to use these same, > uncritically accepted materials, to make people less than? > > Anyway, that's the gist of the conference. This is also the gist of where > > some of us are going (while others, who shall remain nameless of course, > are > going to sojourn among the beautiful trout in the equally beautiful Snake > River in spectacular nearly-southern Idaho. (But of course we aren't > saying > WHO, EXACTLY, is doing that. . . . . lalalalalaaaaaa. Send us pictures, > okay? I love trout, especially the living, breathing, swimming kind.) > > Best, > Mia > > -----Original Message----- > From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto: > ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] > On Behalf Of phil cash cash > Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 12:38 PM > To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > Subject: Re: [ILAT] no news from the LSA... > > it wasn't me that was left out, it was our endangered languages and i > am sorry too. glad to hear you all had a good time though. > > Philcc > > On Jan 9, 2006, at 12:10 PM, Mia Kalish wrote: > > > We were having too much fun going to presentations, giving > > presentations, > > recovering from presentations, meeting new friends, . . . And, in my > > case. > > . . . talking about revitalization software and who wants to build it > > :-) > > > > A good time was had by all. Sorry we left you out. . . we apologize. > > > head humbly> > > > > Mia > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Indigenous Languages and Technology > > [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] > > On Behalf Of phil cash cash > > Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 10:36 AM > > To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > > Subject: [ILAT] no news from the LSA... > > > > Greetings ILAT, > > > > I am a bit surprised that there is virually no news coming out from the > > LSA conference this past week. The only news item I saw today was the > > "word of the year" which seems a bit trivial but particularly news > > worthy. Nevertheless, we should continue to draw attention to the > > plight of the world's endangered languages. > > > > Phil Cash Cash > > UofA, ILAT > > > > > > > -- > Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. > > Department of English > Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics > and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program > American Indian Language Development Institute > Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 > -- Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. Department of English Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program American Indian Language Development Institute Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US Tue Jan 10 01:44:21 2006 From: MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US (Mia Kalish) Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 18:44:21 -0700 Subject: LSA 2006 In-Reply-To: <39a679e20601091737w2e1c988aif906e181743bd9b8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Most of my people would be Indigenous developers. . . . :-) (I'm like that!) If we knew ahead, we could see if their Tribes would support them for the conference. They would be showing off the material we have been building together. _____ From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Susan Penfield Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 6:38 PM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [ILAT] LSA 2006 Maybe...I'll think about it-- We have to think about the audience who is interested === SSILA and / LSA or both? It would be nice to have back to back sessions -- AND I really think we still need to have something which invites the inclusion of community members... S. On 1/9/06, Mia Kalish wrote: Are you volunteering to organize a session . . . .?????? What if we organized 2 sessions, to support each other. How about this --> You do a session about how Documentation Should Be Designed with an Eye Toward Revitalization . . . and I'll organize a session for all the people working in Revitalization about How Documentation Supports and Impedes Our Efforts. Those of us who do revitalization depend heavily on what is learned and collected by the people who are working on the documentation. I know in my case, I have a really hard time doing materials for math because the collected knowledge is so sparse. There is all kinds of physical evidence that STEM was alive and well in Indigenous communities, and we have Nearly Nothing in terms of elicitations to support that. I would also like to show others how we are using the web to network our revitalization efforts, sharing text, sound, designs, movies and learning across wide distances. How about: Documentation, Technology & the Web: Effects on Revitalization Efforts :-) Mia _____ From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Susan Penfield Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 6:07 PM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [ILAT] no news from the LSA... All, Mia is right on -- Our session on Sunday was devoted to much of this. It was the last LSA session which was both good and bad -- On the bad side, many of the key players who were at LSA and would have attended (Leanne Hinton, Keren Rice, Wilhelm Meya --and many others )--expressed regrets in having to leave early ).However, many others stayed for that event and participated --as well, we had others in attendance who might not have been there if other talks had been taking place. Christine Sims spoke eloquently about many issues and the evolving history of language education from the community perspective; the folks from the Indigenous Language Institute also did a great job of sharing their ongoing work -- half of the audience (about 50) stayed to watch Brenda McKenna's video from Nambe pueblo (which was beautifully done). I do think that the profile for endangered languages was raised at this LSA (beginning with the airing of "the Last Speakers" on Thursday night.) BUT -- I would like to underscore that the story hardly begins or ends at LSA -- and that it remains up to all of us to keep the interest going. The next LSA, I'm told, will be in Anaheim next January. That's not so far away in either time or distance (for many of us) ...NOW is the time to start thinking about how to keep the energy going into next year!! I believe abstracts are due in April ...so it might be great to propose a special session on Indigenous Languages and technology related to both documentation and revitalization (or something like that)... Best, Susan On 1/9/06, Mia Kalish < MiaKalish at learningforpeople.us> wrote: Hi, Phil, I want to assure you that we did lots and lots and lots about endangered languages. We talked about them; we talked about how documentation efforts that do not include an eye and support for revitalization are unethical. We shared our ways and concepts of building revitalization materials. Numbers of us made plans to work together to produce publishable research in revitalization, especially as we can be using the internet, because not everyone who is interested in a particular topic or aspect is in the same physical locale either with others who have the same interest, or with others who know the solution or approach. We talked about involving communities, we talked about empowering communities. We talked about building teams, and how those teams should be and work. We talked about tools for field work, and tools for archiving. It's true that a large portion of both LSA and SSILA were dominated by linguistic elements, but there was a recognizable chunk devoted to the revitalization issue. Some people, not everyone, but lots of people, are realizing that we have to make sure these languages don't end up on museum shelves, but back in the community. We even in some places made tiny little headways into issues of language extension. The success of the Maori was one of the shining stars that gave people something to think about. My presentation was about how we have no language for math and science. I showed my materials, and how difficult it was to find words for shapes, and how difficult it was to find people to record the sounds of the words we do have for numbers. If the languages don't move into contemporary use, they WILL die, and people are starting to talk about that. Interestingly enough, it is the younger grad students who seem to find this concept intuitively obvious. I don't know why that is, but the people who needed no explanation were people who were in their 20's, and who were coping with complex issues in the field, sometimes in South America, sometimes locally with diverse populations. We also talked about how Indigenous Languages need to be taught in schools, both public and private, and we talked about how Indigenous scholars, people like Mary Eunice Romero, are writing Indigenous pedagogies. There need to be more Indigenous scholars writing about Indigenous pedagogies. Sandy Grande also writes about Indigenous pedagogies; she calls it Red Pedagogy. She is a critical race theorist, actually. But the bottom line is that the world NEEDS TO KNOW that you don't teach Ndn kids the way you teach white kids. Vine and Daniel Wildcat have been saying that for a long time, and so have the Smiths, and Devon Mihesuah. We also need more research that shows that if you give people crappy materials, they won't learn very well. We need research that helps others understand what the technical term "crappy material" means in the context of teaching and learning. Did you ever notice how people seldom if ever evaluate their materials, but they are very ready to use these same, uncritically accepted materials, to make people less than? Anyway, that's the gist of the conference. This is also the gist of where some of us are going (while others, who shall remain nameless of course, are going to sojourn among the beautiful trout in the equally beautiful Snake River in spectacular nearly-southern Idaho. (But of course we aren't saying WHO, EXACTLY, is doing that. . . . . lalalalalaaaaaa. Send us pictures, okay? I love trout, especially the living, breathing, swimming kind.) Best, Mia -----Original Message----- From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of phil cash cash Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 12:38 PM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [ILAT] no news from the LSA... it wasn't me that was left out, it was our endangered languages and i am sorry too. glad to hear you all had a good time though. Philcc On Jan 9, 2006, at 12:10 PM, Mia Kalish wrote: > We were having too much fun going to presentations, giving > presentations, > recovering from presentations, meeting new friends, . . . And, in my > case. > . . . talking about revitalization software and who wants to build it > :-) > > A good time was had by all. Sorry we left you out. . . we apologize. > head humbly> > > Mia > > -----Original Message----- > From: Indigenous Languages and Technology > [mailto: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] > On Behalf Of phil cash cash > Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 10:36 AM > To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > Subject: [ILAT] no news from the LSA... > > Greetings ILAT, > > I am a bit surprised that there is virually no news coming out from the > LSA conference this past week. The only news item I saw today was the > "word of the year" which seems a bit trivial but particularly news > worthy. Nevertheless, we should continue to draw attention to the > plight of the world's endangered languages. > > Phil Cash Cash > UofA, ILAT > -- Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. Department of English Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program American Indian Language Development Institute Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 -- Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. Department of English Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program American Indian Language Development Institute Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From langendt at U.ARIZONA.EDU Tue Jan 10 05:16:08 2006 From: langendt at U.ARIZONA.EDU (Terry Langendoen) Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 22:16:08 -0700 Subject: LSA 2006 In-Reply-To: <20060110014435.3A5D51F47@listserv.arizona.edu> Message-ID: Mia, Susan, and other interested parties, LSA "preliminary proposal" symposium or workshop deadline is Apr 15. It only needs to identify the organizer(s) with contact information (email address, phone number, mailing address), a list of participants with an indication of who has accepted, a brief description of the purpose and contents, and how much time is needed. Full proposal (with abstracts) is due Sept 1. The LSA website *may* be set up for inputting the preliminary proposal in time, but don't count on it. (Otherwise some number of hard copies will need to be mailed to the LSA office in Washington.) Terry On Mon, 9 Jan 2006, Mia Kalish wrote: > Most of my people would be Indigenous developers. . . . :-) (I'm like that!) > > > > > If we knew ahead, we could see if their Tribes would support them for the > conference. They would be showing off the material we have been building > together. > > > > _____ > > From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] > On Behalf Of Susan Penfield > Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 6:38 PM > To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > Subject: Re: [ILAT] LSA 2006 > > > > Maybe...I'll think about it-- > > We have to think about the audience who is interested === SSILA and / LSA or > both? > > It would be nice to have back to back sessions -- AND I really think we > still need to have something which invites the inclusion of community > members... > > S. > > > > On 1/9/06, Mia Kalish wrote: > > Are you volunteering to organize a session . . . .?????? > > > > What if we organized 2 sessions, to support each other. How about this --> > > You do a session about how Documentation Should Be Designed with > an Eye Toward Revitalization > > > > . . . and I'll organize a session for all the people working in > Revitalization about > > How Documentation Supports and Impedes Our Efforts. > > > > Those of us who do revitalization depend heavily on what is learned and > collected by the people who are working on the documentation. I know in my > case, I have a really hard time doing materials for math because the > collected knowledge is so sparse. There is all kinds of physical evidence > that STEM was alive and well in Indigenous communities, and we have Nearly > Nothing in terms of elicitations to support that. > > > > I would also like to show others how we are using the web to network our > revitalization efforts, sharing text, sound, designs, movies and learning > across wide distances. > > > > How about: Documentation, Technology & the Web: Effects on Revitalization > Efforts > > > > :-) > > > > Mia > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto: > ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Susan Penfield > Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 6:07 PM > To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > Subject: Re: [ILAT] no news from the LSA... > > > > All, > > Mia is right on -- Our session on Sunday was devoted to much of this. It was > the last LSA session which was both good and bad -- On the bad side, many of > the key players who were at LSA and would have attended (Leanne Hinton, > Keren Rice, Wilhelm Meya --and many others )--expressed regrets in having to > leave early ).However, many others stayed for that event and participated > --as well, we had others in attendance who might not have been there if > other talks had been taking place. Christine Sims spoke eloquently about > many issues and the evolving history of language education from the > community perspective; the folks from the Indigenous Language Institute also > did a great job of sharing their ongoing work -- half of the audience (about > 50) stayed to watch Brenda McKenna's video from Nambe pueblo (which was > beautifully done). > > > > I do think that the profile for endangered languages was raised at this > LSA (beginning with the airing of "the Last Speakers" on Thursday night.) > BUT -- I would like to underscore that the story hardly begins or ends at > LSA -- and that it remains up to all of us to keep the interest going. > > > > The next LSA, I'm told, will be in Anaheim next January. That's not so far > away in either time or distance (for many of us) ...NOW is the time to start > thinking about how to keep the energy going into next year!! I believe > abstracts are due in April ...so it might be great to propose a special > session on Indigenous Languages and technology related to both documentation > and revitalization (or something like that)... > > > Best, > > Susan > > > On 1/9/06, Mia Kalish < > MiaKalish at learningforpeople.us> wrote: > > Hi, Phil, > > I want to assure you that we did lots and lots and lots about endangered > languages. We talked about them; we talked about how documentation efforts > that do not include an eye and support for revitalization are unethical. We > shared our ways and concepts of building revitalization materials. Numbers > of us made plans to work together to produce publishable research in > revitalization, especially as we can be using the internet, because not > everyone who is interested in a particular topic or aspect is in the same > physical locale either with others who have the same interest, or with > others who know the solution or approach. > > We talked about involving communities, we talked about empowering > communities. We talked about building teams, and how those teams should be > and work. We talked about tools for field work, and tools for archiving. > > It's true that a large portion of both LSA and SSILA were dominated by > linguistic elements, but there was a recognizable chunk devoted to the > revitalization issue. Some people, not everyone, but lots of people, are > realizing that we have to make sure these languages don't end up on museum > shelves, but back in the community. > > We even in some places made tiny little headways into issues of language > extension. The success of the Maori was one of the shining stars that gave > people something to think about. My presentation was about how we have no > language for math and science. I showed my materials, and how difficult it > was to find words for shapes, and how difficult it was to find people to > record the sounds of the words we do have for numbers. > > If the languages don't move into contemporary use, they WILL die, and people > are starting to talk about that. Interestingly enough, it is the younger > grad students who seem to find this concept intuitively obvious. I don't > know why that is, but the people who needed no explanation were people who > were in their 20's, and who were coping with complex issues in the field, > sometimes in South America, sometimes locally with diverse populations. > > We also talked about how Indigenous Languages need to be taught in schools, > both public and private, and we talked about how Indigenous scholars, people > > like Mary Eunice Romero, are writing Indigenous pedagogies. There need to be > more Indigenous scholars writing about Indigenous pedagogies. Sandy Grande > also writes about Indigenous pedagogies; she calls it Red Pedagogy. She is a > > critical race theorist, actually. But the bottom line is that the world > NEEDS TO KNOW that you don't teach Ndn kids the way you teach white kids. > Vine and Daniel Wildcat have been saying that for a long time, and so have > the Smiths, and Devon Mihesuah. > > We also need more research that shows that if you give people crappy > materials, they won't learn very well. We need research that helps others > understand what the technical term "crappy material" means in the context of > > teaching and learning. Did you ever notice how people seldom if ever > evaluate their materials, but they are very ready to use these same, > uncritically accepted materials, to make people less than? > > Anyway, that's the gist of the conference. This is also the gist of where > some of us are going (while others, who shall remain nameless of course, are > going to sojourn among the beautiful trout in the equally beautiful Snake > River in spectacular nearly-southern Idaho. (But of course we aren't saying > WHO, EXACTLY, is doing that. . . . . lalalalalaaaaaa. Send us pictures, > okay? I love trout, especially the living, breathing, swimming kind.) > > Best, > Mia > > -----Original Message----- > From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto: > ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] > On Behalf Of phil cash cash > Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 12:38 PM > To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > Subject: Re: [ILAT] no news from the LSA... > > it wasn't me that was left out, it was our endangered languages and i > am sorry too. glad to hear you all had a good time though. > > Philcc > > On Jan 9, 2006, at 12:10 PM, Mia Kalish wrote: > > > We were having too much fun going to presentations, giving > > presentations, > > recovering from presentations, meeting new friends, . . . And, in my > > case. > > . . . talking about revitalization software and who wants to build it > > :-) > > > > A good time was had by all. Sorry we left you out. . . we apologize. > > > head humbly> > > > > Mia > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Indigenous Languages and Technology > > [mailto: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] > > On Behalf Of phil cash cash > > Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 10:36 AM > > To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > > Subject: [ILAT] no news from the LSA... > > > > Greetings ILAT, > > > > I am a bit surprised that there is virually no news coming out from the > > LSA conference this past week. The only news item I saw today was the > > "word of the year" which seems a bit trivial but particularly news > > worthy. Nevertheless, we should continue to draw attention to the > > plight of the world's endangered languages. > > > > Phil Cash Cash > > UofA, ILAT > > > > > > > -- > Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. > > Department of English > Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics > and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program > American Indian Language Development Institute > Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 > > > > > -- > Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. > > Department of English > Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics > and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program > American Indian Language Development Institute > Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 > > Terry Langendoen, Professor Emeritus, Dept of Linguistics, Univ of Arizona P O Box 210028, 1100 E University Blvd, Tucson AZ 85721-0028 USA Phone: +1 520.621.6898 Fax: +1 520.626.9014 Homepage http://linguistics.arizona.edu/~langendoen LINGUIST List Book Review editor http://linguistlist.org/reviews/index.html From andrekar at NCIDC.ORG Tue Jan 10 18:51:00 2006 From: andrekar at NCIDC.ORG (Andre Cramblit) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 10:51:00 -0800 Subject: Conference Message-ID: FYI Shelley Essaunce-Lamarche, Aboriginal Heritage Presenter Georgian Bay Islands National Park of Canada P.O. Box 9 Midland, ON L4R 4K6 Phone: (705) 526-9804 ext. 233 Fax: (705) 526-5939 "There's only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving, and that's your own self." Aldous Huxley (1894-1963) ----- Forwarded by Shelley Essaunce-Lamarche/NOTES/PC/CA on 04/01/2006 03:18 PM ----- Once again, we are getting ready for the 12th Annual Anishinaabemowin Teg Language Conference to be held March 30, 31, April 1 & 2, 2006 at the Kewadin Casino and Convention Centre in Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan. We look forward to help ensure you have a successful 4 days with maximum networking and a wide variety of opportunities of meeting new friends, finding resources, and having a good time. Last year, Anishinaabe from across the North America participated in a variety of informative Language workshops and sessions. We had new to fluent speakers of various dialects and tribes which continue to strengthen our language. There was a wonderful banquet which showcased the scholarship recipients and evening of entertainment. We also had our Country Ho down / step dance evening and our Cultural evening with traditional feast. Attached is information containing our official Welcome Letter, Host Hotels, Scholarship Application, Call for Presenters and Conference Registration. You may find additional information on our website containing a vendor application, a SAMPLE submission of our ?Call for Presenters? & the official CONFERENCE POSTER. Please make note of the changes in this year?s registration process and a change in our email address listed below. WE WILL NOT ACCEPT ANY FAXED REGISTRATIONS. FULL PAYMENT MUST BE RECEIVED WITH YOUR MAILED REGISTRATION. Please assist us in forwarding this email to interested individuals or organizations. For further information and conference updates visit our website. Miigwech, Maheengun Shawanda "Kwii-anishinaabemtoowag na gdi-binoojiinmag nongo?" "Will you speak the language to your children today?" Anishinaabemowin Teg 12th Annual Language Conference March 30th - April 2nd, 2006 For further information click on the following link: http://www.anishinabek.ca/language%20conference/welcome.asp -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From susan.penfield at GMAIL.COM Wed Jan 11 02:48:00 2006 From: susan.penfield at GMAIL.COM (Susan Penfield) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 19:48:00 -0700 Subject: Fwd: [LINGUA] New "Linguistic fieldwork preparation" website up (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This looks like an excellent resource site for a number of things related to endangered languages... ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 18:52:36 -0330 From: ACL/CLA To: undisclosed-recipients: ; Subject: New "Linguistic fieldwork preparation" website up Hello, A website of "Linguistic Fieldwork Preparation: a guide for field linguists" is now up and running. It is meant to be a comprehensive web-resource for the benefit of the linguistic community at large. The site's address is: http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/lingfieldwork/ The project was carried out as part of the LSA Committee on Endangered Languages and their preservation and under the supervision of Keren Rice, University of Toronto. All additions are welcome. Regards, Sandhya Chari -- Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. Department of English Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program American Indian Language Development Institute Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anggarrgoon at gmail.com Wed Jan 11 06:18:24 2006 From: anggarrgoon at gmail.com (Anggarrgoon) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 00:18:24 -0600 Subject: LSA 2006 In-Reply-To: <20060110014435.3A5D51F47@listserv.arizona.edu> Message-ID: Hi Mia, first off, many apologies for not making your session - there was so much going on and the handbook was so hard to follow there were several I meant to go to and missed. I was at the final session on Sunday and thought it was great, and I hope that there will be something similar at future LSAs. The CELP committee and Jeff Good will be organising another session (Jeff was talking about making the 'techniques' workshop a regular item, with a different focus each year, so maybe email him so there's no duplication of efforts? Let me know if you need his email address. Claire From susan.penfield at GMAIL.COM Wed Jan 11 14:50:35 2006 From: susan.penfield at GMAIL.COM (Susan Penfield) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 07:50:35 -0700 Subject: LSA 2006 In-Reply-To: <43C4A330.6080503@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks Claire, Jeff Good and I spoke initially about somehow overlapping our sessions this time, but it just wasn't feasible -- However, that is something we might be able to do down the line ( i.e., a session on techniques AND a session on fieldwork concerns/revitalization efforts). We are also discussing what might be offered at the next LSA Institute (Stanford 2007) and or at Berkeley (2009)...time to start planning for those events as well! Ideas would be welcomed I'm sure and there is a flyer (not sure if it is available online yet) which will call for course proposals for 2007. Glad you enjoyed Sunday's session! Best, Susan On 1/10/06, Anggarrgoon wrote: > > Hi Mia, > first off, many apologies for not making your session - there was so > much going on and the handbook was so hard to follow there were several > I meant to go to and missed. > > I was at the final session on Sunday and thought it was great, and I > hope that there will be something similar at future LSAs. > The CELP committee and Jeff Good will be organising another session > (Jeff was talking about making the 'techniques' workshop a regular item, > with a different focus each year, so maybe email him so there's no > duplication of efforts? Let me know if you need his email address. > > Claire > -- Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. Department of English Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program American Indian Language Development Institute Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US Wed Jan 11 15:06:34 2006 From: MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US (Mia Kalish) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 08:06:34 -0700 Subject: LSA 2006 In-Reply-To: <39a679e20601110650m6ff360cs78d73009030926bb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hmmmm. I somehow missed this was posted on the list. . . Here was my response to Claire: Hi, Claire, Thanks, on both counts. Revitalization has 3 foci, actually. Jeff Good's is only one; from what I understood from friends who attended the session, it was about choosing and employing different field collection technologies. I don't talk about that sort of thing, other than to recommend digital recorders. I talk about two other things: 1) deciding what will be collected for STEM materials support (right now there is very close to 0 across all collections); and 2) how materials can best be presented to the learner to facilitate learning. Words on paper with a teacher repeating them individually once or twice a week doesn't work. Further, all the rich lexical information is excellent for learning MORE ABOUT the language, but interruptive for those who are LEARNING THE language. One needs to make sure not to clutter up the cognitive paths, and while lots of related information looks good for accomplishment reports, it is Really, Really Bad for learners who are trying to develop skills in the language patterns. Further, other that what Powell write in 1881, there seems to be little written on the importance or method of gathering STEM information. While there is overwhelming physical evidence that STEM skills existed and flourished, there is no reflection of this in elicitations. And lastly, the process of developing revitalization materials is robust. There are lots of components that go into it, given that people have realized that dictionary NOT = revitalization (maybe they haven't). So I talk a lot about the cognitive learning processes, and how the brain will use the patterns you give it to develop IT'S OWN understanding of the language (as opposed to what someone else thinks is important ABOUT the language). Research coming out of psychology (in which I hold a Master's degree) is pointing out to people that the brain makes its own decisions about what it will learn and how. The attention process in many cases has little to do with direct learning, and more and sometimes only to do with presenting the buffet of opportunities to the brain so it can make its own choices (which it will anyway no matter what you do. . . . if the brain doesn't have enough of the right information for it to Learn, it just blows you off . . . [people don't realize this. . .]). So I don't think there is duplication . . . do you? If you do, forward this along to Jeff and see what he thinks. If he thinks there is potential duplication, he can write to me. Thanks, Mia _____ From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Susan Penfield Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 7:51 AM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [ILAT] LSA 2006 Thanks Claire, Jeff Good and I spoke initially about somehow overlapping our sessions this time, but it just wasn't feasible -- However, that is something we might be able to do down the line ( i.e., a session on techniques AND a session on fieldwork concerns/revitalization efforts). We are also discussing what might be offered at the next LSA Institute (Stanford 2007) and or at Berkeley (2009)...time to start planning for those events as well! Ideas would be welcomed I'm sure and there is a flyer (not sure if it is available online yet) which will call for course proposals for 2007. Glad you enjoyed Sunday's session! Best, Susan On 1/10/06, Anggarrgoon wrote: Hi Mia, first off, many apologies for not making your session - there was so much going on and the handbook was so hard to follow there were several I meant to go to and missed. I was at the final session on Sunday and thought it was great, and I hope that there will be something similar at future LSAs. The CELP committee and Jeff Good will be organising another session (Jeff was talking about making the 'techniques' workshop a regular item, with a different focus each year, so maybe email him so there's no duplication of efforts? Let me know if you need his email address. Claire -- Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. Department of English Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program American Indian Language Development Institute Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From susan.penfield at GMAIL.COM Wed Jan 11 15:43:46 2006 From: susan.penfield at GMAIL.COM (Susan Penfield) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 08:43:46 -0700 Subject: LSA 2006 In-Reply-To: <20060111150647.7F58921BB@listserv.arizona.edu> Message-ID: Mia and all, Your comments are feeding into the distinction I've been emphasizing between documentation (of major concern and receiving international attention through OLAC, SOAS, EMELD, etc) and revitalization (still receiving little attention internationally, though robust and active at a community level). The question remains as to how these two 'camps' can better serve one another (if they should). This is part of the point I was trying to make on Sunday at LSA -- If one works in a community, with all the technical expertise available for documentation, and does not envision or consider how their work may impact local revitalization efforts -- its a problem (I think I said 'irresponsible') ....As field linguists, we must make sure that our work on documentation (using all the 'best practices' which were the subject of Jeff's session) is supportive of the community's efforts. This requires a second set of 'Best Practices' -- still being defined -- for working with communties (actually, I think we should think in terms of working FOR communities --a step beyond working 'IN' or even 'WITH' ) ... That said, I'm leaning toward proposing a session focused on products (the type Mia is developing) not techniques for data collection (Jeff's thing). The Lakota Language Consortium (winners of the Ken Hale prize from SSILA) are making some amazing materials. I think a session that asked participants to 1) share their products and 2) discuss the theoretical underpinnings -- i.e. STEM in Mia's case and 3) discuss the type of community connections/support/interactions for implementation of these products ...might be really interesting to present to linguists. This could be done as a techie-poster session -- or a regular session with individual papers....either would be good. The LSA poster session on Endangered Languages this time was very rich (I thought)... OK -- that's my two cents... S. On 1/11/06, Mia Kalish wrote: > > Hmmmm. I somehow missed this was posted on the list. . . > > > > Here was my response to Claire: > > > > > > Hi, Claire, > > > > Thanks, on both counts. > > > > Revitalization has 3 foci, actually. Jeff Good's is only one; from what I > understood from friends who attended the session, it was about choosing and > employing different field collection technologies. I don't talk about that > sort of thing, other than to recommend digital recorders. > > > > I talk about two other things: 1) deciding what will be collected for STEM > materials support (right now there is very close to 0 across all > collections); and 2) how materials can best be presented to the learner to > facilitate learning. > > > > Words on paper with a teacher repeating them individually once or twice a > week doesn't work. Further, all the rich lexical information is excellent > for learning MORE ABOUT the language, but interruptive for those who are > LEARNING THE language. One needs to make sure not to clutter up the > cognitive paths, and while lots of related information looks good for > accomplishment reports, it is Really, Really Bad for learners who are trying > to develop skills in the language patterns. > > > > Further, other that what Powell write in 1881, there seems to be little > written on the importance or method of gathering STEM information. While > there is overwhelming physical evidence that STEM skills existed and > flourished, there is no reflection of this in elicitations. > > > > And lastly, the process of developing revitalization materials is robust. > There are lots of components that go into it, given that people have > realized that dictionary NOT = revitalization (maybe they haven't). So I > talk a lot about the cognitive learning processes, and how the brain will > use the patterns you give it to develop IT'S OWN understanding of the > language (as opposed to what someone else thinks is important ABOUT the > language). Research coming out of psychology (in which I hold a Master's > degree) is pointing out to people that the brain makes its own decisions > about what it will learn and how. The attention process in many cases has > little to do with direct learning, and more and sometimes only to do with > presenting the buffet of opportunities to the brain so it can make its own > choices (which it will anyway no matter what you do. . . . if the brain > doesn't have enough of the right information for it to Learn, it just blows > you off . . . [people don't realize this. . .]). > > > > So I don't think there is duplication . . . do you? If you do, forward > this along to Jeff and see what he thinks. If he thinks there is potential > duplication, he can write to me. > > > > Thanks, > > Mia > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto: > ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Susan Penfield > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 11, 2006 7:51 AM > *To:* ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > *Subject:* Re: [ILAT] LSA 2006 > > > > Thanks Claire, > Jeff Good and I spoke initially about somehow overlapping our sessions > this time, but it just wasn't feasible -- However, that is something we > might be able to do down the line ( i.e., a session on techniques AND a > session on fieldwork concerns/revitalization efforts). We are also > discussing what might be offered at the next LSA Institute (Stanford 2007) > and or at Berkeley (2009)...time to start planning for those events as well! > Ideas would be welcomed I'm sure and there is a flyer (not sure if it is > available online yet) which will call for course proposals for 2007. > > Glad you enjoyed Sunday's session! > Best, > Susan > > On 1/10/06, *Anggarrgoon* wrote: > > Hi Mia, > first off, many apologies for not making your session - there was so > much going on and the handbook was so hard to follow there were several > I meant to go to and missed. > > I was at the final session on Sunday and thought it was great, and I > hope that there will be something similar at future LSAs. > The CELP committee and Jeff Good will be organising another session > (Jeff was talking about making the 'techniques' workshop a regular item, > with a different focus each year, so maybe email him so there's no > duplication of efforts? Let me know if you need his email address. > > Claire > > > > > -- > Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. > > Department of English > Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics > and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program > American Indian Language Development Institute > Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 > -- Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. Department of English Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program American Indian Language Development Institute Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anggarrgoon at gmail.com Wed Jan 11 16:34:43 2006 From: anggarrgoon at gmail.com (Anggarrgoon) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 10:34:43 -0600 Subject: LSA 2006 In-Reply-To: <43c50b13.3ac0e56d.505c.ffffc7d1SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Mia, quick response, as classes start today. I absolutely agree with you about there being more than one focus (and I'm sure Jeff does too) - that's one of the reasons they want to have a continuing series of workshops at future LSAs. It was never billed as a revitalisation session, it was billed as a "how to make great audio and video recordings" session. > > Revitalization has 3 foci, actually. Jeff Good's is only one; from what I > understood from friends who attended the session, it was about choosing and > employing different field collection technologies. I don't talk about that > sort of thing, other than to recommend digital recorders. > The talks were on a mixture of things, from choosing audio/video equipment, to what the specifications mean (sampling rates, 16 bit vs 24 bit, etc) to archiving. And there were some software demonstrations. I can't think of much offhand that would have been relevant to linguists and not to community members documenting their own language; Elan maybe, but even that has potential use for communities who want to link film and video (I think if that's all they need to do there are better programs to do it with). > I talk about two other things: 1) deciding what will be collected for STEM > materials support (right now there is very close to 0 across all > collections); and 2) how materials can best be presented to the learner to > facilitate learning. > > Words on paper with a teacher repeating them individually once or twice a > week doesn't work. Further, all the rich lexical information is excellent > for learning MORE ABOUT the language, but interruptive for those who are > LEARNING THE language. One needs to make sure not to clutter up the > cognitive paths, and while lots of related information looks good for > accomplishment reports, it is Really, Really Bad for learners who are trying > to develop skills in the language patterns. > yes, I agree. BUT that's not the whole story either, by any means. When I started work on Bardi there was a great program for beginning learners, aimed at little kids. There was a lot of time for it at preschool, they had songs and games, they were learning words, they were sitting down and hearing stories, and the 5-6 year olds were really enthusiastic about the whole thing. The grade one classes had language games and there was a set of lessons that had been developed over a number of years. It included exercises like going home and asking granny about something (and a lot of other things). This was before One Arm Point had computers in the classrooms. However, there was nothing much for more advanced learners, so by the time the kids got to fourth grade they were doing the same curriculum they'd done in second grade. So when I got there we did two things - I worked as much as possible with the old people (there are now about 25 speakers of Bardi) to get better documentation of a variety of genres, so there is a community record. If you're interested in all that we did I can send you a paper that I wrote about it. We did this on the assumption that we can always simplify materials for the intermediate/beginner learners, but if we don't have native speakers we can't recapture the complexity of the language. Maybe we can discuss this more in another thread, but it is something that worries me a bit sometimes. Is it just a data presentation issue (because that is easily fixed) or is it something deeper? You mentioned data that wasn't collected - could you give me some examples? > Further, other that what Powell write in 1881, there seems to be little > written on the importance or method of gathering STEM information. While > there is overwhelming physical evidence that STEM skills existed and > flourished, there is no reflection of this in elicitations. > Could you say more about this? > And lastly, the process of developing revitalization materials is robust. > There are lots of components that go into it, given that people have > realized that dictionary NOT = revitalization (maybe they haven't). Um, I think this is a bit unfair. So I > talk a lot about the cognitive learning processes, and how the brain will > use the patterns you give it to develop IT'S OWN understanding of the > language (as opposed to what someone else thinks is important ABOUT the > language). Research coming out of psychology (in which I hold a Master's > degree) is pointing out to people that the brain makes its own decisions > about what it will learn and how. The attention process in many cases has > little to do with direct learning, and more and sometimes only to do with > presenting the buffet of opportunities to the brain so it can make its own > choices (which it will anyway no matter what you do. . . . if the brain > doesn't have enough of the right information for it to Learn, it just blows > you off . . . [people don't realize this. . .]). > I made this point somewhere recently, sorry if it was here. Linguists are in a very difficult position here, particularly academic linguists doing language description or revitalisation and working in communities (I work in Australia but I think the situation is somewhat similar in the US). On the one hand there are certain things we have to do in order to keep our academic jobs (teaching, publishing in academic journals, advising students), and it's our academic jobs that allow us to offer our services to communities essentially for free. If communities want to employ linguists purely as consultants on revitalisation projects, then the academic model usually won't work. We can't put alphabet books and talking dictionaries of 100 words in to support our tenure cases as syntacticians, and if we don't get tenure we can't continue offering our services to communities. I fully agree that there's a lot that stinks about this situation, it's unfair to both sides (I work two fulltime jobs when I'm in the field, for instance - as an academic linguist and as a revitalisation/training linguist - I'm lucky that I have a wonderful field site that makes this doable, and I work with Yolngu people who are keen to see their language published and written about) and I suspect it's unsustainable, and it leads to a heap of miscommunication and wrong assumptions about what is taking place, to what end. > So I don't think there is duplication . . . do you? If you do, forward this > along to Jeff and see what he thinks. If he thinks there is potential > duplication, he can write to me. I don't know what Jeff had in mind but a workshop on revitalisation techniques was raised in the town meeting on Thursday. That was where I thought the overlap might come in. Ok, so that "quick response" turned into a much longer one but I will stop now. There are many different issues and assumptions here and I'd really like to discuss these in depth. Claire From delancey at UOREGON.EDU Wed Jan 11 16:47:56 2006 From: delancey at UOREGON.EDU (Scott DeLancey) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 08:47:56 -0800 Subject: "In", "for", or "with"? (was Re: [ILAT] LSA 2006) In-Reply-To: <39a679e20601110743x52f0a209i202a9e28edbc6811@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Jan 2006, Susan Penfield wrote: > Jeff's session) is supportive of the community's efforts. This requires a > second set of 'Best Practices' -- still being defined -- for working with > communties (actually, I think we should think in terms of working FOR > communities --a step beyond working 'IN' or even 'WITH' ) ... I may be splitting hairs here, but then, that's what I do for a living ... A lot of folks in linguistics now put these in the other order--once upon a time we worked *in* the communities, then we learned we had to think about working *for* the community, now we work *with* them. To me the difference is: if you are working *for* the community, that sounds like you design and carry out the project, and the community benefits. Sounds cool, but it can't work that way--no revitalization program can get anywhere unless the community is involved all the way along, not just in goal-setting but in implementation too--if you're not working *with* the community then the community isn't going to end up getting much out of your work. Scott DeLancey Department of Linguistics 1290 University of Oregon Eugene, OR 97403-1290, USA delancey at darkwing.uoregon.edu http://www.uoregon.edu/~delancey/prohp.html From susan.penfield at GMAIL.COM Wed Jan 11 17:39:44 2006 From: susan.penfield at GMAIL.COM (Susan Penfield) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 10:39:44 -0700 Subject: "In", "for", or "with"? (was Re: [ILAT] LSA 2006) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Scott Couldn't agree more -- so maybe 'with' and 'for' blend here. All I was trying to suggest is the clear 'paradigm shift' (to use current rhetoric) that has occurred for linguists working in the context of communities. Since being in the field (now easily over 30 eyars) , the position of 'linguist' has changed -- for the better, I think, in that most of us are very concerned with how we can advocate and support the communities we work with (or for) -- I have, on occasion, actually been employed by the tribes so working 'for' them is accurate in my case. But the projects I now design, while I'm now based in academia, are always, to the best of my ability, conceived as fully collaborative..i.e., working with the community on every level possible. We may both be splitting hairs, but we are not wasting words. Linguists need to think carefully through their relationship and responsibility to the community...Most know that of course, but it certainly hasn't always been the case. It is rarely clearly articulated what working 'with' communities means nor is it often addressed as to just how these collaborations are actually implemented. Best, Susan On 1/11/06, Scott DeLancey wrote: > > On Wed, 11 Jan 2006, Susan Penfield wrote: > > > Jeff's session) is supportive of the community's efforts. This requires > a > > second set of 'Best Practices' -- still being defined -- for working > with > > communties (actually, I think we should think in terms of working FOR > > communities --a step beyond working 'IN' or even 'WITH' ) ... > > I may be splitting hairs here, but then, that's what I do for a living ... > > A lot of folks in linguistics now put these in the other order--once upon > a time we worked *in* the communities, then we learned we had to think > about working *for* the community, now we work *with* them. > > To me the difference is: if you are working *for* the community, that > sounds like you design and carry out the project, and the community > benefits. Sounds cool, but it can't work that way--no revitalization > program can get anywhere unless the community is involved all the way > along, not just in goal-setting but in implementation too--if you're > not working *with* the community then the community isn't going to end > up getting much out of your work. > > Scott DeLancey > Department of Linguistics > 1290 University of Oregon > Eugene, OR 97403-1290, USA > > delancey at darkwing.uoregon.edu > http://www.uoregon.edu/~delancey/prohp.html > -- Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. Department of English Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program American Indian Language Development Institute Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU Wed Jan 11 17:22:40 2006 From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 10:22:40 -0700 Subject: no news from the LSA... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Just to add further, I recall a media analysis was done on news articles relating to language endangerment and, on the average, they tended to appear at least 1.5 times a month. After scouring the news for ILAT in the past year, this seems to be right on (though I am in no way an expert news monger, I just "google" like everybody else on the planet). But for the most part, to make the news, one usually needs a "percipitating action or event" such as a conference, project being funded, etc. I've noticed though that when the news articles specifically focus on the language dissappearing, usually it is portrayed in one of two ways: as a dire state of affairs or as an "against all odds" kind of affairs where the community is attempting to beat the odds, win the race against time, etc. FYI, here is the link to the media analysis summary. http://www.aiic.net/ViewPage.cfm/page1512.htm Phil UofA ILAT Quoting Terry Langendoen : > Press coverage of LSA meetings has historically been nearly > nonexistent, except when some language issue was in the news > around our meeting time, most notably the Ebonics controversy in > the late 90s. We might want to encourage LSA to put out press > releases about topics of interest about the annual meeting (e.g. > workshops and symposia on endangered languages) in the future. > > Coverage of the Word of the Year has been going on for about a > decade -- but that's the doing of the American Dialect Society > that meets together with LSA. > > Terry > > On Mon, 9 Jan 2006, phil cash cash wrote: > >> it wasn't me that was left out, it was our endangered languages and i >> am sorry too. glad to hear you all had a good time though. >> >> Philcc >> >> On Jan 9, 2006, at 12:10 PM, Mia Kalish wrote: >> >> > We were having too much fun going to presentations, giving >> > presentations, >> > recovering from presentations, meeting new friends, . . . And, in my >> > case. >> > . . . talking about revitalization software and who wants to build it >> > :-) >> > >> > A good time was had by all. Sorry we left you out. . . we apologize. >> > > > head humbly> >> > >> > Mia >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Indigenous Languages and Technology >> > [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] >> > On Behalf Of phil cash cash >> > Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 10:36 AM >> > To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU >> > Subject: [ILAT] no news from the LSA... >> > >> > Greetings ILAT, >> > >> > I am a bit surprised that there is virually no news coming out from the >> > LSA conference this past week. The only news item I saw today was the >> > "word of the year" which seems a bit trivial but particularly news >> > worthy. Nevertheless, we should continue to draw attention to the >> > plight of the world's endangered languages. >> > >> > Phil Cash Cash >> > UofA, ILAT >> > >> > > Terry Langendoen, Professor Emeritus, Dept of Linguistics, Univ of Arizona > P O Box 210028, 1100 E University Blvd, Tucson AZ 85721-0028 USA > Phone: +1 520.621.6898 Fax: +1 520.626.9014 > Homepage http://linguistics.arizona.edu/~langendoen From anggarrgoon at gmail.com Wed Jan 11 17:55:07 2006 From: anggarrgoon at gmail.com (Anggarrgoon) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 11:55:07 -0600 Subject: no news from the LSA... In-Reply-To: <20060111102240.gc3o8wcccw4o4kg0@www.email.arizona.edu> Message-ID: Just in relation to the portrayal of endangered languages in the media, I wrote a formula for such an article on my blog a few years ago: http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/anggarrgoon/2004/03/01#a6 Claire > I've noticed though that when the news articles specifically focus on > the language dissappearing, usually it is portrayed in one of two ways: > as a dire state of affairs or as an "against all odds" kind of affairs > where the community is attempting to beat the odds, win the race > against time, etc. > > FYI, here is the link to the media analysis summary. > http://www.aiic.net/ViewPage.cfm/page1512.htm > From ayellowbird2 at YAHOO.COM Wed Jan 11 18:13:33 2006 From: ayellowbird2 at YAHOO.COM (Amisa Yellowbird) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 10:13:33 -0800 Subject: PLEASE REMOVE ME FROM YOUR MAIL LIST Message-ID: Please remove me from your mailing list. You do great work but I can't handle all the e-mails. I have a 14.4 connection and a lap top. Thank you Amisa Yellowbird ayellowbird2 at yahoo.com --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos ? Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover Photo Books. You design it and we?ll bind it! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jtucker at starband.net Wed Jan 11 18:32:19 2006 From: jtucker at starband.net (Jan Tucker) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 13:32:19 -0500 Subject: "In", "for", or "with"? (was Re: [ILAT] LSA 2006) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Scott, great points here. It would be good to hear from community members regarding working "for" the community. How do the communities want "outsiders" working "for" them. Also, do the communities even want outside collaborators in their revitalization programs? Would they rather train their own community members working on revitalization to document language and develop language revitalization tools? Jan -----Original Message----- From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU]On Behalf Of Scott DeLancey Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 11:48 AM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: [ILAT] "In", "for", or "with"? (was Re: [ILAT] LSA 2006) On Wed, 11 Jan 2006, Susan Penfield wrote: > Jeff's session) is supportive of the community's efforts. This requires a > second set of 'Best Practices' -- still being defined -- for working with > communties (actually, I think we should think in terms of working FOR > communities --a step beyond working 'IN' or even 'WITH' ) ... I may be splitting hairs here, but then, that's what I do for a living ... A lot of folks in linguistics now put these in the other order--once upon a time we worked *in* the communities, then we learned we had to think about working *for* the community, now we work *with* them. To me the difference is: if you are working *for* the community, that sounds like you design and carry out the project, and the community benefits. Sounds cool, but it can't work that way--no revitalization program can get anywhere unless the community is involved all the way along, not just in goal-setting but in implementation too--if you're not working *with* the community then the community isn't going to end up getting much out of your work. Scott DeLancey Department of Linguistics 1290 University of Oregon Eugene, OR 97403-1290, USA delancey at darkwing.uoregon.edu http://www.uoregon.edu/~delancey/prohp.html From susan.penfield at GMAIL.COM Wed Jan 11 18:52:36 2006 From: susan.penfield at GMAIL.COM (Susan Penfield) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 11:52:36 -0700 Subject: "In", "for", or "with"? (was Re: [ILAT] LSA 2006) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jan, Of course...these are good points and important to mention. Increasingly , communities are choosing to do their own work which is great -- but if they decide to involve a linguist, then that linguist needs to really think through the relationship with the community -- on many levels. I actually agree with Scott -- working 'with' is the current model and a good one -- or at least an improved one. My personal hope is that communities feel empowered in terms of choosing or not choosing a linguist and in terms of being able to outline how a linguist might or might not be of specifi use to them fro either documentation or revitalization. Best, Susan On 1/11/06, Jan Tucker wrote: > > Scott, great points here. It would be good to hear from community members > regarding working "for" the community. How do the communities want > "outsiders" > working "for" them. Also, do the communities even want outside > collaborators in > their revitalization programs? Would they rather train their own community > members > working on revitalization to document language and develop language > revitalization tools? > > Jan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Indigenous Languages and Technology > [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU]On Behalf Of Scott DeLancey > Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 11:48 AM > To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > Subject: [ILAT] "In", "for", or "with"? (was Re: [ILAT] LSA 2006) > > > On Wed, 11 Jan 2006, Susan Penfield wrote: > > > Jeff's session) is supportive of the community's efforts. This requires > a > > second set of 'Best Practices' -- still being defined -- for working > with > > communties (actually, I think we should think in terms of working FOR > > communities --a step beyond working 'IN' or even 'WITH' ) ... > > I may be splitting hairs here, but then, that's what I do for a living ... > > A lot of folks in linguistics now put these in the other order--once upon > a time we worked *in* the communities, then we learned we had to think > about working *for* the community, now we work *with* them. > > To me the difference is: if you are working *for* the community, that > sounds like you design and carry out the project, and the community > benefits. Sounds cool, but it can't work that way--no revitalization > program can get anywhere unless the community is involved all the way > along, not just in goal-setting but in implementation too--if you're > not working *with* the community then the community isn't going to end > up getting much out of your work. > > Scott DeLancey > Department of Linguistics > 1290 University of Oregon > Eugene, OR 97403-1290, USA > > delancey at darkwing.uoregon.edu > http://www.uoregon.edu/~delancey/prohp.html > -- Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. Department of English Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program American Indian Language Development Institute Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jtucker at starband.net Wed Jan 11 19:45:48 2006 From: jtucker at starband.net (Jan Tucker) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:45:48 -0500 Subject: "In", "for", or "with"? (was Re: [ILAT] LSA 2006) In-Reply-To: <39a679e20601111052oe777ef4q22c520529090b45c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Susan, thanks for responding, I was hoping to hear from community members on the list regarding this topic. I had a discussion with a web developer and online educator who did many presentations at the community level regarding connectivity, and in our discussion he emphasized the desire of communities to control their own communication networks and educational output. Sovereignty is the key he said in relation to indigenous knowledge and learning networks. I wondered how much of the desire for sovereignty in knowledge sharing might affect any efforts in language and cultural revitalization by non community members who would like to collaborate or work "for" or "with" the community? And if there is a barrier to collaboration due to the desire of the communities to control their collective knowledge of the language and the sharing of that knowledge. Just a thought that could affect any efforts by outsiders to help or affect the direction or focus of outsider support to language revitalization. Jan -----Original Message----- From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU]On Behalf Of Susan Penfield Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 1:53 PM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [ILAT] "In", "for", or "with"? (was Re: [ILAT] LSA 2006) Jan, Of course...these are good points and important to mention. Increasingly , communities are choosing to do their own work which is great -- but if they decide to involve a linguist, then that linguist needs to really think through the relationship with the community -- on many levels. I actually agree with Scott -- working 'with' is the current model and a good one -- or at least an improved one. My personal hope is that communities feel empowered in terms of choosing or not choosing a linguist and in terms of being able to outline how a linguist might or might not be of specifi use to them fro either documentation or revitalization. Best, Susan On 1/11/06, Jan Tucker wrote: Scott, great points here. It would be good to hear from community members regarding working "for" the community. How do the communities want "outsiders" working "for" them. Also, do the communities even want outside collaborators in their revitalization programs? Would they rather train their own community members working on revitalization to document language and develop language revitalization tools? Jan -----Original Message----- From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU]On Behalf Of Scott DeLancey Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 11:48 AM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: [ILAT] "In", "for", or "with"? (was Re: [ILAT] LSA 2006) On Wed, 11 Jan 2006, Susan Penfield wrote: > Jeff's session) is supportive of the community's efforts. This requires a > second set of 'Best Practices' -- still being defined -- for working with > communties (actually, I think we should think in terms of working FOR > communities --a step beyond working 'IN' or even 'WITH' ) ... I may be splitting hairs here, but then, that's what I do for a living ... A lot of folks in linguistics now put these in the other order--once upon a time we worked *in* the communities, then we learned we had to think about working *for* the community, now we work *with* them. To me the difference is: if you are working *for* the community, that sounds like you design and carry out the project, and the community benefits. Sounds cool, but it can't work that way--no revitalization program can get anywhere unless the community is involved all the way along, not just in goal-setting but in implementation too--if you're not working *with* the community then the community isn't going to end up getting much out of your work. Scott DeLancey Department of Linguistics 1290 University of Oregon Eugene, OR 97403-1290, USA delancey at darkwing.uoregon.edu http://www.uoregon.edu/~delancey/prohp.html -- Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. Department of English Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program American Indian Language Development Institute Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From coyotez at UOREGON.EDU Wed Jan 11 20:02:40 2006 From: coyotez at UOREGON.EDU (David Gene Lewis) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 12:02:40 -0800 Subject: "In", "for", or "with"? (was Re: [ILAT] LSA 2006) In-Reply-To: <39a679e20601111052oe777ef4q22c520529090b45c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Ilat members, As a constant lurker I thank you all for what you are doing for your communities. Not that you all need my thanks, but I am personnally benefitting from your leadership on how to help revive your languages. I am a peripheral member because my work is in historic ethnographic archives, specifically the Southwest Oregon Research Project. I have worked with Scott DeLancey, and Phil Cash Cash in the past. I do not work specifically in linguistics, althought thanks to Scott's great teaching, I can understand the lingo pretty well. I am in cultural anthropology/ethnohistory and my work overlaps with linguistic and native language issues quite a bit. My work with the SWORP collection here at the University of Oregon, where I archivally organized it and created the finding aid. The collection has an overlap with language revitalization as at least 75% of the collection contains historic language materials from Oregon Indians and other surrounding Tribes. As part of the history of SWORP, the collection has been gifted to all of the Tribes in Oregon, and many surrounding Tribes in California and Washington State. My interest in the questions of working "for" or "with" the tribe are really a part of everything I do. As a Tribal member and a cultural anthropologist I feel responsibility in two realms, to academia and to the Tribal communities in Oregon. In short I am an "insider" and an "outsider" according to what has been posted previously. I suspect that many on this list are in a similar situation... This difference was part of my decision process when I was reorganizing the SWORP collection for the library here at UO. I wanted the collection to be accessible to Indian people as well as academic researchers of any level of research experience. I knew that the collection would be given to the tribes in the future and so I created titles for the files that resonnated with Indian people and academic researchers. At that time, abt 1999, there was not a lot of direction from my tribe or really any tribes in Oregon about what they needed and so I had to think about it fresh and go with my instincts. I think it was successful. Many tribes and Tribal researchers have expressed an appreciation for the way the collection is arranged and the ease as to which they can do research within it. Not that my experience or actions are the answer, but it has worked here in Oregon. I would like to see a similar effort taken by other repositories of Native ethnohistory so that similar collections are made more accessible to Native communities. So what Scott is saying is incredibly important. In 1998 I took a trip to Australia, and the approach the Arrente (sp?) people were taking involved intentionally placing community members and students with university professors to learn their methods, so that they may return to Alice Springs with that knowledge and use it in their community. I saw some amazing language resources being developed for communities that did not have ready access to computers and associated technologies. But I also think we can explore further the role of the native scholar working within academia and their community. These scholars, manytimes, have a completey different motivation for their work, and different responsibilities and expectations on them than non-native academics and scholars. In the past 30 years, anthropology and linguistics scholars have changed their methods and products to reflect the needs of the native communities but really it is the native scholars that can truly represent those communities in both worlds. Thanks for listening, David Lewis University of Oregon Confederated Tribes of Grand Ronde From susan.penfield at GMAIL.COM Wed Jan 11 20:16:53 2006 From: susan.penfield at GMAIL.COM (Susan Penfield) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 13:16:53 -0700 Subject: "In", "for", or "with"? (was Re: [ILAT] LSA 2006) In-Reply-To: <200601112002.k0BK2e1Q015641@smtp.uoregon.edu> Message-ID: David, Thanks so much for these valuable insights. I agree that native scholars have a distinct and special place in all of this and am happy that the ranks are growing! I'd also like to call attention to those whom Phil and I have refer to as 'community intellectuals' -- people whose intellectual expertise has made a significant contribution to the advancement of language issues. I count here, for instance,one person I worked with for many years who took it really upon herself to become literate in Mohave and who began to write materials (but very sadly passed away suddenly). These folks often go unrecognized completely. Interestingly, I've heard the term 'insider-outsider' lately used in different ways. It is frequently used to describe native scholars, who bridge both the community and the academy, and sometimes also used to describe outsiders who live/work in the community. Like Jan, I hope more native scholars on this list will jump in here... S. On 1/11/06, David Gene Lewis wrote: > > Ilat members, > As a constant lurker I thank you all for what you are doing for your > communities. Not that you all need my thanks, but I am personnally > benefitting from your leadership on how to help revive your languages. > > > I am a peripheral member because my work is in historic ethnographic > archives, specifically the Southwest Oregon Research Project. I have > worked with Scott DeLancey, and Phil Cash Cash in the past. I do not > work specifically in linguistics, althought thanks to Scott's great > teaching, I can understand the lingo pretty well. I am in cultural > anthropology/ethnohistory and my work overlaps with linguistic and > native language issues quite a bit. > > My work with the SWORP collection here at the University of Oregon, > where I archivally organized it and created the finding aid. The > collection has an overlap with language revitalization as at least 75% > of the collection contains historic language materials from Oregon > Indians and other surrounding Tribes. As part of the history of SWORP, > the collection has been gifted to all of the Tribes in Oregon, and > many surrounding Tribes in California and Washington State. > > My interest in the questions of working "for" or "with" the tribe are > really a part of everything I do. As a Tribal member and a cultural > anthropologist I feel responsibility in two realms, to academia and to > the Tribal communities in Oregon. In short I am an "insider" and an > "outsider" according to what has been posted previously. I suspect > that many on this list are in a similar situation... > > This difference was part of my decision process when I was > reorganizing the SWORP collection for the library here at UO. I wanted > the collection to be accessible to Indian people as well as academic > researchers of any level of research experience. I knew that the > collection would be given to the tribes in the future and so I created > titles for the files that resonnated with Indian people and academic > researchers. At that time, abt 1999, there was not a lot of direction > from my tribe or really any tribes in Oregon about what they needed > and so I had to think about it fresh and go with my instincts. I think > it was successful. Many tribes and Tribal researchers have expressed > an appreciation for the way the collection is arranged and the ease as > to which they can do research within it. > > Not that my experience or actions are the answer, but it has worked > here in Oregon. I would like to see a similar effort taken by other > repositories of Native ethnohistory so that similar collections are > made more accessible to Native communities. > > So what Scott is saying is incredibly important. In 1998 I took a trip > to Australia, and the approach the Arrente (sp?) people were taking > involved intentionally placing community members and students with > university professors to learn their methods, so that they may return > to Alice Springs with that knowledge and use it in their community. I > saw some amazing language resources being developed for communities > that did not have ready access to computers and associated > technologies. > > But I also think we can explore further the role of the native scholar > working within academia and their community. These scholars, > manytimes, have a completey different motivation for their work, and > different responsibilities and expectations on them than non-native > academics and scholars. In the past 30 years, anthropology and > linguistics scholars have changed their methods and products to > reflect the needs of the native communities but really it is the > native scholars that can truly represent those communities in both > worlds. > > > Thanks for listening, > > David Lewis > University of Oregon > Confederated Tribes of Grand Ronde > -- Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. Department of English Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program American Indian Language Development Institute Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anggarrgoon at gmail.com Wed Jan 11 20:22:19 2006 From: anggarrgoon at gmail.com (Anggarrgoon) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:22:19 -0600 Subject: "In", "for", or "with"? (was Re: [ILAT] LSA 2006) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Me again, I have run into problems with this notion of "community" - in particular, it quickly becomes problematic in areas with patrilects, or clan/family groups, and areas where the "community" is not isomorphic to the "language" or "speech community". For example, if I am employed by a particular family to work on their language, they might not want the work that I do to be more widely available, and that includes to other speakers of the same language. Sometimes the elders in the community want to work with a linguist, but the younger people don't. It's often the younger people in charge of the community council, and they are the people who have most of the experience negotiating with government bodies and who as a consequence have most of the power in current social structures. BUT traditionally, and until quite recently, it would be the elders who would make decisions about who had access to cultural information, including language. So if I take the full community consultation route, I am disregarding the wishes of those who have the knowledge to impart and who want it recorded in the first place. Here "community" is just another external social construct. This is not a hypothetical example, it comes up all the time. Claire From MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US Thu Jan 12 02:40:01 2006 From: MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US (Mia Kalish) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 19:40:01 -0700 Subject: "In", "for", or "with"? (was Re: [ILAT] LSA 2006) In-Reply-To: <43C568FB.9070604@gmail.com> Message-ID: I run into this a lot, too. I take a somewhat different approach, though, because when I was building large computer systems in Manhattan, I would see the same theme expressed by different departments: a particular department would want to see everyone else's data, but wouldn't want anyone near theirs. Usually, logic and reason wouldn't work, so I would tell them that if they couldn't share with others that their department would be left out of the development plan. Funny how that made everyone want to play nice. I'm not a person who does well with divisiveness and side-taking and exclusion, so I avoid situations like that. I also don't like how people wield the power and prestige against each other. I saw this happen a lot in one particular place, where some people where employed on a dictionary grant on and off for 20 years. They really profited from their work but other tribal members were excluded, both from the work and the opportunity to benefit financially. Financial benefit doesn't always sound like much, but some of the people are so very poor that equity becomes a real ethical issue, or should. There are difficulties with equity, of course. Sometimes the battle against the things like alcohol and drugs is just enormous. Sometimes it is devastating and just makes me want to cry (sometimes I cry). But the fact of the matter is, we are working with PEOPLE. Human beings. With hopes and dreams and cares and wants. With struggles and experiences, with brains and hearts and hands and goals. People. Many of the people I run into forget that Ndns are People. Makes me mad. But back to the topic, exclusion of other tribal members doesn't produce a good result. There is a funny "belief" about "fluency" (I don't think Chomsky Ever Did think this through): not everyone knows all the words. Not everyone knows all the ways the words are used. And not everyone is equally sophisticated in all the different ways in which the language can be used. What is collected from an individual is technically "idiolect"; "language" requires lots and lots of people using lots and lots of words with lots and lots of grammar and syntax. Also, some tribes are big enough to do everything all by themselves. But not everyone is. And some tribes are lucky enough to have technie tribal members. Again, that's not true of everyone. So to summarize: There is no 1 Right Way. (That's kind of Enlightenment-Modern-Positivist). There are lots of right ways, and the right way is what works at a particular time for a particular group of people, and that changes over time as time, the group, and the needs and understandings change. That's what I think, anyway. But I'm one of those postmodern, post-structuralist types who believes that learning, understanding, technology, and social relations are all dynamic and constantly changing. :-) Mia -----Original Message----- From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Anggarrgoon Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 1:22 PM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [ILAT] "In", "for", or "with"? (was Re: [ILAT] LSA 2006) Me again, I have run into problems with this notion of "community" - in particular, it quickly becomes problematic in areas with patrilects, or clan/family groups, and areas where the "community" is not isomorphic to the "language" or "speech community". For example, if I am employed by a particular family to work on their language, they might not want the work that I do to be more widely available, and that includes to other speakers of the same language. Sometimes the elders in the community want to work with a linguist, but the younger people don't. It's often the younger people in charge of the community council, and they are the people who have most of the experience negotiating with government bodies and who as a consequence have most of the power in current social structures. BUT traditionally, and until quite recently, it would be the elders who would make decisions about who had access to cultural information, including language. So if I take the full community consultation route, I am disregarding the wishes of those who have the knowledge to impart and who want it recorded in the first place. Here "community" is just another external social construct. This is not a hypothetical example, it comes up all the time. Claire From rtroike at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU Thu Jan 12 08:36:19 2006 From: rtroike at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (Rudy Troike) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 01:36:19 -0700 Subject: "for" vs "for" (vs "with") In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It always interests me when linguists miscommunicate because of the polysemy of words on their native language. I interpreted Susan's placing "for the community" after "with" as representing the meaning of "for" as in "I work for the University of Arizona", i.e. I am an employee, carrying out functions defined by the institution (sometimes dynamically and interactively, to be sure), while Scott's "for", preceding "with", I understood as in the sense "I am working for [a particular political candidate, referendum issue, etc.]" where, to use Fillmore's semantic roles, the community is "Benefactive", i.e. where I see the community as benefiting from my altruistic efforts, either/both within the community or outside as an advocate, and where I may have decided on what will benefit them without asking their advice (colonial paternalism). So both are right in their different sequencing; it's not splitting hairs, but a very different set of semantic/participant roles, to use linguistic jargon, with "for" being polysemic, or conflating different case-indications. "With" is also polysemic, and even more slippery in interpretation, so it can be vaguely comitative or deeply joint-participative. One would always have to ask for more specificity where "with" is being claimed. Rudy From djcunlif at GLAM.AC.UK Thu Jan 12 09:39:01 2006 From: djcunlif at GLAM.AC.UK (Cunliffe D J (Comp)) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 09:39:01 -0000 Subject: "In", "for", or "with"? (was Re: [ILAT] LSA 2006) Message-ID: Hi all, Arriving at this from a different (computing) perspective, "buy-in", "ownership" (which I guess are "with") and ultimately "empowerment" (which I guess is "without" - without us!) are all important and highly topical concepts and factors in successful systems. However it is not always clear how you put these fine principles into practice. I was wondering if anyone here has read "Decolonizing Methodologies: Research and Indigenous Peoples" by Linda Tuhiwai Smith? I borrowed it very briefly from another library and never really had time to read it properly. It looked like there might be some useful ideas in it, though a lot of the contextualising discussion went over my head somewhat :-) I would be interesting in hearing other people's opinions or any other recommendations along similar lines. Be seeing you. Daniel. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US Thu Jan 12 14:42:13 2006 From: MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US (Mia Kalish) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 07:42:13 -0700 Subject: "In", "for", or "with"? (was Re: [ILAT] LSA 2006) In-Reply-To: <0BA7EE4D4646E0409D458D347C508B780175CABE@MAILSERV1.uni.glam.ac.uk> Message-ID: Hi, to Rudy . . . long time no hear. I was quoting you on Din? octagon vs. triangle yesterday. Hi, Daniel. The Smiths: (there are two of them, you know :-) ). I have read Decolonizing Methodologies . . . although several years ago. The overarching theme is that Indigenous people have been abused muchly and long by people who come in, take their knowledge (in biology, botany, and healing as well as language), run off with it, publish or develop a lucrative drug, and never return much or anything to the people who shared their knowledge with them. The underlying understanding, although I don?t recall that Smith spends too much time on this, is that the Indigenous people are considered ?less than?, not quite human following the hierarchy of man that was socially devised by Darwin?s cousin Francis Galton. Darwin did not devise ?survival of the fittest,? Spencer did. And it was Galton who mapped Darwin?s genetic component to Spencer?s idea. Galton coined the term ?eugenics,? and the very first school of thought/discipline for which America became academically famous was the School of Eugenics at Harvard, headed by Louis Agassiz, who came to Harvard from Greece. Dalton envisioned ?the development of a strong `caste sense' among the naturally gifted members of each social class? (members.iinet.net.au/~sejones/pe15socl.html). This idea is an extension and ?refinement,? if you can call it that, from Malthus (whom I haven?t read, as opposed to these other people here). Smith recommends some best practices for working with Indigenous People. Here in America, there is a requirement in all NSF and NIH funded research that if any profit is made as a result of the work, it has to be shared with the community who participated in the development and exchange of knowledge. Smith also says that the term ?research? is anathema to Indigenous communities, because of the abuses. This is really something to think about, because people get all ?oh I want to do research in your community,? thinking about themselves and their projected efforts in the context of how research is viewed (with awe and respect) in the academic community. And the Indigenous People get all squinty-eyed and think, Oh you do, do you! So you should reacquire the book. I can recommend Amazon.com.uk. Check out Devon Mihesuah, and Sandy Grande. I think both of these people, especially Grande, are very far from you field, but definitely worth reading to see what the abuses of Indigenous people in America have produced. The ruling class tried to make Native People go away: ?Kill the Indian to save the Man? was a popular slogan in the 1800?s. Of course, the reason this movement started was in opposition to a plan the U.S. Government had to annihilate all the Indians, through disease, starvation, and plain, outright slaughter. ([Non-Indigenous] People like me who are Jewish, and people like me who are Irish, we know a lot about this kind of technique.) You could check out Colonizer?s View of the World, too. Forgot who wrote it. If you?re interested, I can go check my copy. :-) Mia _____ From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Cunliffe D J (Comp) Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 2:39 AM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [ILAT] "In", "for", or "with"? (was Re: [ILAT] LSA 2006) Hi all, Arriving at this from a different (computing) perspective, ?buy-in?, ?ownership? (which I guess are ?with?) and ultimately ?empowerment? (which I guess is ?without? ? without us!) are all important and highly topical concepts and factors in successful systems. However it is not always clear how you put these fine principles into practice. I was wondering if anyone here has read ?Decolonizing Methodologies: Research and Indigenous Peoples? by Linda Tuhiwai Smith? I borrowed it very briefly from another library and never really had time to read it properly. It looked like there might be some useful ideas in it, though a lot of the contextualising discussion went over my head somewhat :-) I would be interesting in hearing other people?s opinions or any other recommendations along similar lines. Be seeing you. Daniel. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US Thu Jan 12 15:11:12 2006 From: MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US (Mia Kalish) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 08:11:12 -0700 Subject: Two Recommended Google Searches Message-ID: For people who are interested in how the social ideas that were popular in last few centuries have contributed to what we see today as "truth" about Indigenous People around the world, search "Darwin's cousin". To learn more about how the Eugenics concept (which Hitler got from the U.S., by the way, not the other way around) is held in place even in contemporary times, search "Harvard Eugenics". This may not Seem Relevant on the surface, but when you think how people develop their "common belief systems" by listening both to the experts and to the beliefs in their social groups, then you can see how much of the research attitude toward Indigenous people evolved and remained in place. You can also begin to see what Indigenous scholars are talking about when they talk about the wide division between how Indigene views the world, vs. how academe views the world. (For this knowledge, I owe a debt of gratitude to my mentor, Dr. Elba Serrano :-) I was her TA in an Ethics class. Every institution should have one - an Ethics course, I mean. And it should be required.) Best, Mia -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From annier at sfu.ca Thu Jan 12 15:17:13 2006 From: annier at sfu.ca (annie ross) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 07:17:13 -0800 Subject: 'In', 'for', or 'with'? (was Re: [ILAT] LSA 2006) Message-ID: An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US Thu Jan 12 15:46:20 2006 From: MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US (Mia Kalish) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 08:46:20 -0700 Subject: 'In', 'for', or 'with'? (was Re: [ILAT] LSA 2006) In-Reply-To: <200601121517.k0CFHDoD014661@rm-rstar.sfu.ca> Message-ID: Hi, Annie, I appreciate your viewpoints, I really do. But I sit in classes here in the Southwest, and I hear people talk about how there "used to be" Indians. They also talk about "how Columbus discovered America," as if there were not hundreds of millions of people here. Not everyone has the opportunity to have contact with Indigenous people, but they still vote, create ideas, write, learn and share. Without others to write the books that these people will read, without people to make the arguments, to point out the abuses and how they have hurt, these people Will Never Know. And they will continue to believe that all the Indians are in the Smithsonian. They will believe that the North American continent was empty. They will believe that going to South America and taking the plant materials, and the knowledge of the people there is "discovery," that they, themselves have made it, and that those Indigenous people who shared their knowledge are "less than" human, have been "discovered" and are therefore not entitled to benefit from the efforts like they are. Without people writing, this is what we have. . . . Writing is how people far away begin to learn what we are thinking, and seeing, and feeling. Do you know for a long time people believed that animals didn't feel because they couldn't/didn't communicate their feelings like humans? Do you know some people still believe animals don't feel? Without writing, without sharing, without exchanging knowledge, this is what we have. Without the Smiths, it is difficult for me to make an argument in some of my classes, in some of my papers. To me, and others who fight the gatekeepers, who fight for learning materials that reflect Indigenous knowledge, culture, and ways of learning, without the Smiths, without Devon Mihesuah and Vine Deloria, Jr., without Daniel Wildcat and others who struggle and write to construct equity for Indigenous people, I would be lost. People do learn from books. People without hearts, without sensitivity, people who are selfish, who are all about themselves, can learn from books. They can learn by sharing the experiences of people who they will never meet in person. I'll tell you a story. It's about "love". Once upon a time, there was a person who very much wanted to learn her language. She went to school and struggled to find ways of making learning the language easy and fun for adults like her. She met some other people and worked with them, and came up with some things she thought were really wonderful. She went back to her Tribe, and said, Look at these wonderful things I have. I want to share them with you so we adults can learn our language and speak with our families. And the Tribe had a linguist who "owned" them. And they went to him and said, Look, someone is making things that move and make sounds so people can learn. He convinced them this was bad, that they wouldn't get the money if they let her share these things. . . And so the Tribe turned against her, and wouldn't let her share her beautiful materials, built with love and dedication, built with a sense of Tribal belonging. And so she went away, to find others who might be interested . . . Mia -----Original Message----- From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of annie ross Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 8:17 AM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [ILAT] 'In', 'for', or 'with'? (was Re: [ILAT] LSA 2006) re: conversations about in and out hi everyone. i am not a linguist, but i appreciate your work. and i learn by reading your emails. i am a first nations person, and i work in diverse first nations communties. you know, this whole conversation about in, out, whatever, doesn't help. because it is all about hte artificial boundaries humans are so good at creating in order to make chaos where none needs to exist. it is all about love, dedication, hard work, and more love. so that means a person listens, takes care, and walks in the sacred path of learning and teaching simultaneously. academic life likes to teach us academics that we are somehow different (smarter, more this or that), but we are not. if we all knew that, there would be fewer problems. one can not learn this from any book or from any theorist. so skip the darn book and develop your compassion, develop and nurture the ability to see the needs and desires of others and yourself. chop the firewood, cook the tea, laugh, think together, be in community. all of our work is about justice and equality. yes, abuses of the past are important to know. that is called american history. we all should know that already. and those horrible, beautiful, and difficult things do not dictate my present actions. love and hard work do. there is no 'insider' ther is no 'outsider'. that is the big secret. ex: harrington, the proverbial 'outsider', through his scribbles, his scraps of paper, transcending the grave, is having a major impact in communtiies right now. he did not care if he was in, out, and all that. he was compelled. and it is not until now, that we see the sacredness of the work transcribed on notebooks, cards, papers. humans are very good at creating boundaries. reject them. i believe we are all led from a sacred place to do good work. have faith, work hard, talk, listen, revise, but keep moving. annie On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 07:42:13 -0700 ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU wrote: > Hi, to Rudy . . . long time no hear. I was quoting you on Din? octagon vs. > triangle yesterday. > > > > Hi, Daniel. > > > > The Smiths: (there are two of them, you know :-) ). I have read > Decolonizing > Methodologies . . . although several years ago. The overarching theme is > that Indigenous people have been abused muchly and long by people who come > in, take their knowledge (in biology, botany, and healing as well as > language), run off with it, publish or develop a lucrative drug, and never > return much or anything to the people who shared their knowledge with them. > > > > The underlying understanding, although I don?t recall that Smith spends too > much time on this, is that the Indigenous people are considered ?less > than?, > not quite human following the hierarchy of man that was socially devised by > Darwin?s cousin Francis Galton. Darwin did not devise ?survival of the > fittest,? Spencer did. And it was Galton who mapped Darwin?s genetic > component to Spencer?s idea. Galton coined the term ?eugenics,? and > the very > first school of thought/discipline for which America became academically > famous was the School of Eugenics at Harvard, headed by Louis Agassiz, who > came to Harvard from Greece. Dalton envisioned ?the development of a strong > `caste sense' among the naturally gifted members of each social class? > (members.iinet.net.au/~sejones/pe15socl.html). This idea is an > extension and > ?refinement,? if you can call it that, from Malthus (whom I haven?t > read, as > opposed to these other people here). > > > > Smith recommends some best practices for working with Indigenous People. > Here in America, there is a requirement in all NSF and NIH funded research > that if any profit is made as a result of the work, it has to be > shared with > the community who participated in the development and exchange of > knowledge. > > > > > Smith also says that the term ?research? is anathema to Indigenous > communities, because of the abuses. This is really something to think > about, > because people get all ?oh I want to do research in your community,? > thinking about themselves and their projected efforts in the context of how > research is viewed (with awe and respect) in the academic community. > And the > Indigenous People get all squinty-eyed and think, Oh you do, do you! > > > > So you should reacquire the book. I can recommend Amazon.com.uk. Check out > Devon Mihesuah, and Sandy Grande. I think both of these people, especially > Grande, are very far from you field, but definitely worth reading to see > what the abuses of Indigenous people in America have produced. The ruling > class tried to make Native People go away: ?Kill the Indian to save > the Man? > was a popular slogan in the 1800?s. Of course, the reason this movement > started was in opposition to a plan the U.S. Government had to annihilate > all the Indians, through disease, starvation, and plain, outright > slaughter. > ([Non-Indigenous] People like me who are Jewish, and people like me who are > Irish, we know a lot about this kind of technique.) > > > > You could check out Colonizer?s View of the World, too. Forgot who > wrote it. > If you?re interested, I can go check my copy. > > :-) > > Mia > > > > > > _____ > > From: Indigenous Languages and Technology > [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] > On Behalf Of Cunliffe D J (Comp) > Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 2:39 AM > To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > Subject: Re: [ILAT] "In", "for", or "with"? (was Re: [ILAT] LSA 2006) > > > > Hi all, > > > > Arriving at this from a different (computing) perspective, ?buy-in?, > ?ownership? (which I guess are ?with?) and ultimately ?empowerment? > (which I > guess is ?without? ? without us!) are all important and highly topical > concepts and factors in successful systems. However it is not always clear > how you put these fine principles into practice. > > > > I was wondering if anyone here has read ?Decolonizing Methodologies: > Research and Indigenous Peoples? by Linda Tuhiwai Smith? I borrowed it very > briefly from another library and never really had time to read it properly. > It looked like there might be some useful ideas in it, though a lot of the > contextualising discussion went over my head somewhat :-) > > > > I would be interesting in hearing other people?s opinions or any other > recommendations along similar lines. > > > > Be seeing you. > > > > Daniel. > > > annie g. ross First Nations Studies School for the Contemporary Arts Simon Fraser University 8888 University Drive Burnaby, British Columbia V5A 1S6 annier at sfu.ca Telephone: 604-291-3575 Facsimile: 604-291-5666 From phonosemantics at earthlink.net Thu Jan 12 19:38:40 2006 From: phonosemantics at earthlink.net (jess tauber) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 14:38:40 -0500 Subject: 'In', 'for', or 'with'? (was Re: [ILAT] LSA 2006) Message-ID: Jeff Goldblum's chaotician character in the Jurassic Park movie equates discovery with "the rape of the natural world". A bit oversimplified, but pretty much on the mark. We have a governmental system that allows one to patent genes which have existed (in varying forms) for billions of years. If you can scratch, claw, gouge, or otherwise cadge something from somewhere or someone else, then bully for you. It is the first law of creating Empire, Profit, Capitalism. As we become more refined in our methods we often develop the notion of "giving something back", which helps us soothe our growing consciousness that our behaviors may not be so different from that of common thugs after all. So we took your house- at least we're giving you bus fare. If this were a fair world, and surviving wronged peoples were able successfully to bring suit against their aggressors for these wrongs in a truly impartial court, I shudder to think what the penalties and recompenses would be. Luckily for us fat and happy beneficiaries of that sad history this is unlikely to happen barring space alien invasion or ambitious viruses unleashed by disgruntled indigenes. See! Now you've made me get the NSA interested in ILAT. If just a tiny fraction of the resources spent on theme parks, multicolored toilet paper, and cheap hamburgers in our great self-delusional me-me-me circus of a "civilization" that we're so proud of were actually aimed back towards those who've had the most extracted from them perhaps the final annihilation of some or even many of the threatened and dying languages, cultures, and natural environments of the world could be staved off. More preaching to the choir. But as charity the recipients should be grateful for, all decided from the outside by history's "winners" as more well-meaning meddling? Even in love and sharing, the question may still pop up "who's on top?" But more basically, sometimes the other just isn't interested, and you have to separate what they want from what you want for them. Otherwise action verges on an intervention, or worse. Jess Tauber From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU Thu Jan 12 20:44:02 2006 From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 13:44:02 -0700 Subject: Can We Still Speak Chinook? (fwd) Message-ID: Can We Still Speak Chinook? Link Address: http://thetyee.ca/Life/2006/01/10/StillSpeakChinook Published: 2006-01-10 01:42:00 By Nicholas Klassen TheTyee.ca A language 'thrown together to make a strange new country.' At her swearing-in as lieutenant governor in 2001, Iona Campagnolo concluded her remarks with a curious line that few, if anyone in attendance, would have understood: "konoway tillicums klatawa kunamokst klaska mamook okoke huloima chee illahie" - Chinook for "everyone was thrown together to make this strange new country." Campagnolo's nod to BC's lost tongue reflects the importance she places on honouring aboriginal contributions to BC history, and her efforts seem to have rubbed off on Premier Gordon Campbell. At the recent First Ministers' Aboriginal Summit in Kelowna, the premier stressed the need for dialogue and the formulation of a "new working relationship aimed at ensuring Canada's third solitude is henceforth recognized as a true founding partner in confederation." It's impressive stuff, given his track record. But while Campbell's intention is commendable, Campagnolo's image of everyone being "thrown together" is perhaps a more constructive metaphor than the rhetoric of solitudes. And as a language, or jargon, that all BCers can take ownership of, Chinook holds important lessons in seeing past our divisions and moving forward. Bridge of words Campagnolo's citation was culled from Terry Glavin's lengthy Chinook/English poem "Rain Language," which is included in A voice great within us, Glavin's exploration into Chinook he co-wrote with Charles Lillard. For Glavin, the legacy of the language remains important today "because it challenges the narrative that starts with the proposition: 'white good, native bad.' The story of Chinook defies that narrative. It defies the conventions of European settlement in a place that experienced the last colonial enterprise on the continent." Chinook served as a tangible bridge between all groups -whether aboriginal, European, Chinese, Japanese, even Hawaiian - and as a foundation for a syncretic culture where no one identity had to be dominant. Carryl Coles, whose Neskonlith forebears in the Shuswap region spoke Chinook, sees how the jargon would have connected cultures: "Language is an obvious barrier for communication and Chinook seems to have brought different people together. So there's a lesson in that." Chinook's roots lie in the enormous linguistic diversity of North America's northwest coast. Penned in by mountains and ocean, with an abundant food supply, the indigenous population was a relatively sedentary crowd. Dozens of languages evolved in isolated valleys and inlets, so the people developed a common tongue in order to trade. Marianne Ignace - who teaches aboriginal language and curriculum in the Secwepemc Nation surrounding Kamloops - emphasizes this point because "until recently, the literature classified Chinook as a trade language introduced by white people. So it's important to set the record straight. This was an international language aboriginal people developed among themselves that gained a new element with the arrival of Europeans." News in Chinook Through the fur trade, French, English and Cree words entered the language. Missionaries added their contributions, and eventually Chinook became the lingua franca for as many as 250,000 people along the Pacific Slope from Alaska to Oregon. Glavin reflects that "Chinook was the language of Vancouver before the fire. With it, we wrote poetry, we offered up our prayers, we had a newspaper. It wasn't just a tool for trading. It was the identity of a people." Government officials sometimes conducted criminal trials and commissions of inquiry in Chinook. A French missionary published the Chinook-language Kamloops Wawa - which advertised itself as "the queerest newspaper in the world" - out of the back room of a church on a Kamloops reserve between 1891 and 1923. Old copies of the Wawa provide an invaluable window into the world of Chinook for modern fans of the language like University of Victoria linguist David Robertson. Robertson notes that Chinook facilitated native-newcomer relations in nineteenth-century BC because new arrivals could pick it up with less difficulty than a pure indigenous language. But he's careful not to romanticize it. "Some folks like to paint a picture of settler and native arm-in-arm having a rollicking good time on the frontier. And while that wasn't the case, everyone did know from the start that Chinook was not the white man's language. That was an important point." What's a Tyee? According to Robertson, Chinook is best described as a reduced and simplified version of the ancestral languages that were members of the Chinookan family. This is the root of words like iht "one" and tillicum "friend/people." There is also a small group of frequently used words from Nuuchahnulth like mamuk "to do/make" and tyee "chief, or something of superior order." A few decades after initial contact, Chinook suddenly absorbed large amounts of words from French like labush "mouth" and lametsin, "medicine." For the rest of its history, the language of the English newcomers - referred to as King George men, or Kinchotsh - became the single predominant linguistic influence on the jargon. This created some delightful hybrids: chuck is water, so salt chuck is the ocean. Ollallie means berries, so, hen ollallie means eggs. Kapswalla is to steal, so a kapswall man is a thief. Arguably the most recognizable Chinook word - one of the few still commonly in use - is skookum, which can mean swift, strong, well-made, first rate, or cool, but with a tough edge. Although today these words rarely pass from our lips, they still pepper the landscape. Like ghosts walking out of nowhere, Chinook words can be found from the churning waters of Sechelt Inlet's Skookumchuck narrows, to the town of that same name in the Rocky Mountain trench. In addition to the name of this news site, you'll find Tyee Creek, Tyee Butte, Tyee Lake, Tyee Glacier. Cultus Lakes abound - though it's an ominous moniker given that cultus means worthless or good-for-nothing. And how many people driving through the Fraser Canyon's Boston Bar are aware that the Boston is actually Chinook for "American," a term that came about because most American boats that came to these parts were based out of Boston? Faded tongue While Chinook flourished from roughly 1858 to 1900, it hit a wall in the twentieth century. World War I, the Spanish flu and residential schools decimated and disrupted the population. Mass migration into the subsequent void from out-of-province diluted the number of Chinook speakers. All the while, judges, the police, politicians, newspaper editors and the mercantile class made a concerted effort to construct an identity of Anglo hegemony. Chinook was driven to the margins, though it kept peeking up in logging camps and fishing outports. Still, even many of those who clung to it failed to appreciate where Chinook came from. In A voice great within us, Lillard tells a story of picking up a hitchhiker near Kamloops in the 1960s and being taken aback when the young man greeted him with "Klahowya," Chinook for "hello." The young man shrugged when Lillard asked him how he came to use the greeting; it was simply a term his father had always used. When Lillard explained its roots, that it was in large part an expression BC's aboriginal heritage, the passenger had to chuckle, "[my dad] hates Indians. Wait until I tell him where the word comes from. He's gonna shake like a dog shitting peach pits." Although these attitudes still exist in BC, we can honestly say we've come a long way since then. And a fuller appreciation of the history of Chinook can bring BCers closer, still. For some enthusiasts, that means trying to learn the language anew. More realistically, others simply want to raise awareness. Coles is inspired by the interest in Chinook on the Grand Ronde reservation in Oregon - where the language is still actively spoken - and would love to have a gathering of Chinook aficionados in her area. She still recalls the first time she came across a copy of the Wawa. "I was blown away, and immediately wanted to know if anyone was doing anything with Chinook anymore. It's such a great way to get in touch with our past." That past was not without its divides, but when BC was Chinook territory, it was a more multi-ethnic, multi-lingual place than most BCers realize. Indeed, our Chinook era, like today, was a time when we were all thrown together to make a strange new country. Nesika mamook chee oakut wawa, We made a new way to speak Tamahnous oakut mitlite wawa, A magic way to speak, Skookum oakut, nesika oakut A strong way, our own way. - Rain Language Nicholas Klassen is a Vancouver-based writer. From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU Thu Jan 12 20:46:39 2006 From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 13:46:39 -0700 Subject: ABORIGINAL LANGUAGES MUSTN'T DIE: GOORI ELDER (fwd) Message-ID: ABORIGINAL LANGUAGES MUSTN'T DIE: GOORI ELDER 12.1.2006 08:08:48 http://www9.sbs.com.au/radio/index.php?page=wv&newsID=128145 How much is your culture tied in with the language you speak? And, in today's globalised economy, is there still a case for teaching languages other than English at Australian schools? Darcel Moyle is a Goori woman from Minjerribah -- otherwise known as North Stradbroke Island, just off the coast of Brisbane. She's also an Aboriginal Education Officer with the Australian Education Union, as well as the Indigenous representative on the ACTU. Darcel was one of the speakers at a national language teachers' conference in Melbourne, exploring the topic, Languages and Cultures Education - Why?. Here are Darcel Moyle's views... [audio] SOURCE: World View From anggarrgoon at gmail.com Thu Jan 12 23:15:25 2006 From: anggarrgoon at gmail.com (Anggarrgoon) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 17:15:25 -0600 Subject: AMNH papers online Message-ID: http://digitallibrary.amnh.org/dspace/ The American Museum of Natural History has digitised a heap of publications which may be of use and/or interest to people on this list. Claire From djcunlif at GLAM.AC.UK Mon Jan 16 10:36:36 2006 From: djcunlif at GLAM.AC.UK (Cunliffe D J (Comp)) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 10:36:36 -0000 Subject: 'In', 'for', or 'with'? Message-ID: Hi All, I think there is something in this conversation that strikes to the heart of what we (or most of us I guess) are trying to achieve. Annie Ross wrote about the artificiality of borders between people and that "...academic life likes to teach us academics that we are somehow different (smarter, more this or that), but we are not. if we all knew that, there would be fewer problems. ... there is no 'insider' ther is no 'outsider'. that is the big secret." While I am entirely happy to accept that academics aren't smarter etc, (guess who spent 45 minutes walking around Bristol Airport car park in the rain in the dark on Sunday night because he hadn't thought to make a note of where he parked the car!) I really think that there are some important issues around the insider / outsider boundary. If we fail to recognise and manage these issues then at best our efforts will have no effect, and at worse will cause damage. As an Englishman living and working in Wales and as a non-Welsh speaker (practically) working with the Welsh language, I recognise that I am 'outside' along several dimensions. Whilst I am happy to accept the label "incomer", hopefully I have managed to avoid being branded as an outright colonist. No matter how long I live in Wales, or how good my Welsh becomes (I wish!) I cannot ever foresee a time in which I would actually BE Welsh - either in my own mind or the minds of others. To my mind the best I can do is to recognise this and to try to identify appropriate ways of managing it. Being a simple computer person, my preference is for simple practical guidelines like those contained in (part of) Decolonizing Methodologies rather than high brow discussions of the need to re-radicalise the post-colonial agenda within the post-modern neo-liberal context (hmmm... can't help feeling that I ought to have included feminism in there somewhere...) Be seeing you, Daniel. From MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US Mon Jan 16 14:34:40 2006 From: MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US (Mia Kalish) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 07:34:40 -0700 Subject: 'In', 'for', or 'with'? In-Reply-To: <0BA7EE4D4646E0409D458D347C508B780184C75A@MAILSERV1.uni.glam.ac.uk> Message-ID: I agree with Daniel, but in a different way. My friend Yolanda and I are both 1st generation Docs-to-be. Both of us come from environments that would be called "marginalized". Yolanda's family was very, very poor growing up. Mine was less poor, tending to middle and upper middle class over time. The difficulty with mine is that alcoholism was the central social guideline. When I left my home town and home state to get a job, and happened to discover that I loved computer languages, I had opportunities that my family could not 'imagine'. They tried to relate what I did to something physical that they understood, like plumbing, or carpentry, even accounting, but to no avail. My mother, who was very cruel anyway, was fond of saying, after 20 years of my trying, also to no avail, to explain, "You are my daughter and I have no idea what you do for a living". She was Very Proud that she could make me feel like an "outsider" in my own family. So my experiences and increasing education moved me slowly along an invisible line that I only now recognize. I could feel the sense of "being left out," of "not belonging," because little that I said made any sense to them. What was my world was clearly not theirs, and there was no way that I could share my understandings and experiences. My friend Yolanda is experiencing the same thing in the process of getting her doctorate. Her family is generally very nice, not torn apart by alcoholism or drug addiction and the miseries that stem from them. But as she learns things, she finds that she is unable to share them with her family. Not only are her ideas out of synch with the ways people in her family think, but her family - like mine in many ways - is unwilling to make the effort to learn new things to talk with her. She has become an "outsider" in her own family. We have talked about this at length, first in the sheer surprise and comfort of finding that the other had or was sharing the same insider/outsider experiences vis a vis "Family" and "Education". But this is a common experience: A tribal Elder once said to me, "When they come back from school, we throw them out of the tribe, because they don't think the way we do, they think differently". So maybe people who get schooling beyond the 6th or 7th grade are not "smarter," but they have different ways of thinking and talking about things. They have different experiences that they include in that process. And they have different goals. Yolanda talks about how in her family, getting a job as a sales clerk in a department store was a crowning achievement. Today, Yolanda is a college instructor, a task way different both in required knowledge and remuneration, than the family pinnacle. We often talk about how this group and that group needs to get more education. But we do not often talk about the costs of that education. We do not talk about the costs to family and tribal relationships. We don't even talk about how it feels. People who come from families where others have gotten degrees have (I am assuming) a climate where further education is encouraged and valued. There are people in the family who share similar experiences, and the family has already been changed because of the influence of the education. So getting a degree does not force a serious Either/Or choice. How many people on this list, I wonder, had to choose between Family and Education, Tribe and Education, perhaps even cultural and social Self and education. How many people found that their ways of talking post-Education distinguished them uncomfortably from their pre-Education milieu. They say, You can never go home again. At least for me and for Yolanda, this is true. And perhaps the discussion is appropriate for Martin Luther King day. Mia -----Original Message----- From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Cunliffe D J (Comp) Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 3:37 AM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [ILAT] 'In', 'for', or 'with'? Hi All, I think there is something in this conversation that strikes to the heart of what we (or most of us I guess) are trying to achieve. Annie Ross wrote about the artificiality of borders between people and that "...academic life likes to teach us academics that we are somehow different (smarter, more this or that), but we are not. if we all knew that, there would be fewer problems. ... there is no 'insider' ther is no 'outsider'. that is the big secret." While I am entirely happy to accept that academics aren't smarter etc, (guess who spent 45 minutes walking around Bristol Airport car park in the rain in the dark on Sunday night because he hadn't thought to make a note of where he parked the car!) I really think that there are some important issues around the insider / outsider boundary. If we fail to recognise and manage these issues then at best our efforts will have no effect, and at worse will cause damage. As an Englishman living and working in Wales and as a non-Welsh speaker (practically) working with the Welsh language, I recognise that I am 'outside' along several dimensions. Whilst I am happy to accept the label "incomer", hopefully I have managed to avoid being branded as an outright colonist. No matter how long I live in Wales, or how good my Welsh becomes (I wish!) I cannot ever foresee a time in which I would actually BE Welsh - either in my own mind or the minds of others. To my mind the best I can do is to recognise this and to try to identify appropriate ways of managing it. Being a simple computer person, my preference is for simple practical guidelines like those contained in (part of) Decolonizing Methodologies rather than high brow discussions of the need to re-radicalise the post-colonial agenda within the post-modern neo-liberal context (hmmm... can't help feeling that I ought to have included feminism in there somewhere...) Be seeing you, Daniel. From coyotez at UOREGON.EDU Mon Jan 16 15:59:56 2006 From: coyotez at UOREGON.EDU (David Gene Lewis) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 07:59:56 -0800 Subject: 'In', 'for', or 'with'? Message-ID: Klahowya all, Wow, this is turning into a great thread!, Anyway I wanted to ask another question. How many people have had the experience of culture shifting? I mean, I live in several worlds and at times can shift my thinking and language according to the circumstances. When in a Native context I know that my language and demeanor and thinking changes to fit the correct context. And when I am in the academic university context IO will change to fit that world including using a different language and demeanor. When I am with family, I feel also different, changing my thinking and language. So has anyone noticed this. Its rather odd but I think is part of what Native people do to operate in our world (s). David David Lewis University of Oregon Confederated Tribes of Grand Ronde From annier at sfu.ca Mon Jan 16 17:09:31 2006 From: annier at sfu.ca (annie ross) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 09:09:31 -0800 Subject: 'In', 'for', or 'with'? Message-ID: An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US Mon Jan 16 17:28:50 2006 From: MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US (Mia Kalish) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 10:28:50 -0700 Subject: 'In', 'for', or 'with'? In-Reply-To: <200601161709.k0GH9Vu1007226@rm-rstar.sfu.ca> Message-ID: I think it's not right to say, "fuck the labelers" on a discussion board like this. People have their ideas, and they have a right to discuss them without being assaulted. By restricting the opportunity for speech, for presentation and examination of ideas, those who do it attempt to create their own particular centrism. We see this in Education all the time, where references are all to the science as developed in Europe, the ideas as developed in Europe, the expectations as developed in Europe. People need to see things reflected in their own understandings. To force one set of understandings on someone who is trying to get a clearer understanding of their own is to destroy their learning path. We have seen this happen over and over. And the children are the ones who are suffering for it. As for "labels," everything that has a word has a label. So "love" is a label. And what is "love" anyway? It is a complex concept that is comprised of the layers of understandings in a culture. "Real" is a similar construct. What is a "real" number: it's a number that is composed of a mantissa and an exponent. What's "understanding"? Is it like, but certainly not exactly the same, as "emotional empathy"? Is it the ability to grok "mantissa"? Exponent? Is it the ability to recognize a word in a sentence? Is it the ability to recognize the word and reproduce it orally, exactly? Is it the ability to recognize the word and reproduce it orally in a different sentence with a slightly different (polysemic) meaning? It is easy to talk about words that have physical or logical targets, like rock and 4. It is not easy OR accurate to talk about concepts that are integrations of cultural and individual metaphors, like "happiness," or "caring" (See Valenzuela on this), or "pride" or "thoughtfulness" or "joy" or "pleasure" or "shame" or "honor". All these things and more depend on the cultural and individual values, mores, goals, understandings, perceptions, emotional responses, and the sheer safety or danger of reproducing or changing. In a postmodern, poststructuralist world, like ours, there are many opinions and views, simply because of the recognition of complex integrations. In a poststructural sense, things are always changing, including both our understandings and our complex integrations, as we have more experiences and modify what we think. In this PM, PS world, there is No One Right, and No One Wrong. There is no discovery outside human perception; god didn't make the world as a game for people to learn lessons and succeed. The world just is; what we know is what we perceive and think. Our meaning is what we are able to conceptualize, communicate and share with others (and no, "communication" and "sharing" are not the same). So it would be nice if people realized that they shouldn't attack other participants. :-) Thank you, Mia -----Original Message----- From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of annie ross Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 10:10 AM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [ILAT] 'In', 'for', or 'with'? news for today: so.. "love" is the radical word. i presented a series of prints and paintings at the CAA in seattle . ithey are about words, meditationss, time (i.e; love, peace, understanding). breaking down artificial human-made constructs. in a world where normal human bodily functions, fuck, shit, are the expletives, no., war is the expletive. if labeling makes you happy, then live in your labeled world. if blaming makes you comfortable, then be comfortable. love is the radical word people are killed for saying 'peace' peacepeacepeacepeace, ad infinitum and as to the question of being so many people, depending on the context, courage all! be you. i am who i am, to quote popeye, with my family, academia, community, conferences, wherever and with whomever. that is called being real in the world. real real real and those who believe in sacred work, equalilty, and possibilities, will get it and those who don't will spend their time guarding a non-existent gates in the 'perceptual prison their culture has erected for them', to use the words of johansen and grinde and some say i am stupid and some say i am ok and they are both correct so love peace, love love, fuck the labelers annie re: Being a simple computer person, my preference is for simple practical > guidelines like those contained in (part of) Decolonizing Methodologies > rather than high brow discussions of the need to re-radicalise the > post-colonial agenda within the post-modern neo-liberal context (hmmm... > can't help feeling that I ought to have included feminism in there > somewhere...) > Daniel On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 10:36:36 -0000 ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU wrote: > Hi All, > > I think there is something in this conversation that strikes to the > heart of what we (or most of us I guess) are trying to achieve. > > Annie Ross wrote about the artificiality of borders between people and > that "...academic life likes to teach us academics that we > are somehow different (smarter, more this or that), but we are not. if > we > all knew that, there would be fewer problems. ... there is no 'insider' > ther is no 'outsider'. that is the big secret." > > While I am entirely happy to accept that academics aren't smarter etc, > (guess who spent 45 minutes walking around Bristol Airport car park in > the rain in the dark on Sunday night because he hadn't thought to make a > note of where he parked the car!) I really think that there are some > important issues around the insider / outsider boundary. If we fail to > recognise and manage these issues then at best our efforts will have no > effect, and at worse will cause damage. > > As an Englishman living and working in Wales and as a non-Welsh speaker > (practically) working with the Welsh language, I recognise that I am > 'outside' along several dimensions. Whilst I am happy to accept the > label "incomer", hopefully I have managed to avoid being branded as an > outright colonist. > > No matter how long I live in Wales, or how good my Welsh becomes (I > wish!) I cannot ever foresee a time in which I would actually BE Welsh - > either in my own mind or the minds of others. > > To my mind the best I can do is to recognise this and to try to identify > appropriate ways of managing it. > > > > Be seeing you, > Being a simple computer person, my preference is for simple practical > guidelines like those contained in (part of) Decolonizing Methodologies > rather than high brow discussions of the need to re-radicalise the > post-colonial agenda within the post-modern neo-liberal context (hmmm... > can't help feeling that I ought to have included feminism in there > somewhere...) > Daniel. > annie g. ross First Nations Studies School for the Contemporary Arts Simon Fraser University 8888 University Drive Burnaby, British Columbia V5A 1S6 annier at sfu.ca Telephone: 604-291-3575 Facsimile: 604-291-5666 From MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US Mon Jan 16 18:40:38 2006 From: MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US (Mia Kalish) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 11:40:38 -0700 Subject: 'In', 'for', or 'with'? In-Reply-To: <200601161559.k0GFxuEC015711@smtp.uoregon.edu> Message-ID: Hi, David, When I first read your email, I thought I would wait and see what others had to say. But then, after some talk with one of my friends about things that are occurring, I thought I would share our perceptions. We, too, behave differently in different groups. In the disciplines, there are different ways of thinking. In journals, there are different ways of writing and formatting. In technology, there are different languages to write in, and in social milieus, there are different sets of mores and expectations. One doesn't wear jeans to a state dinner and expect to be invited back. One doesn't dress poorly to attend a quincinera without expecting to give great insult. One doesn't talk about object oriented programming in a Psychology seminar, nor about Communications theory in a Physics seminar. It takes time to learn what people in different groups expect and value, and also to decide whether we want to be part of that group or not, and if so, how much. How we speak varies with what our audience understands. I don't talk about creating Event Listeners when I am teaching people how to build learning materials, although Event Listeners are a critical part of how the technology works. But it is just not appropriate for the people who are trying to learn. Also, I don't flood them with words and expect them a) to build their own images (takes too much time), and b) expect them to build mental images that match mine (no matter what, their images will always be their own). One day, I was trying to talk with my new neighbor, who is from Mexico and speaks Spanish. All that kept coming out was Apache. It was inappropriate for talking with my neighbor; I could keep doing it, but she would keep not understanding me. The Apache was a funny little glitch with my mind, but it brings up a good point: Should one speak in a preferred language because "this is who they are" . . . or should they use another language because their goal is to communicate with someone else who is not privy to the "preferred language". I have heard Native people talk about "the different worlds". But there is also a "different worlds discourse" for Native people. There is little or no different worlds discourse for others, although for every first generation college student, there are certainly different worlds. For everyone who enters the white collar corporate world, or leaves it to enter the blue collar world, or to live life on the street as a homeless person, there are different worlds. I think perhaps people haven't talked about it because they don't realize how widespread it is. Certainly people have talked about the difficulty of getting an education for the 1st gen people, but not many have detailed "why", especially in terms of the language and culture and familial expectations. Where I live here in New Mexico, white people assume that a college education is a "good thing" because of the upward mobility that is entailed through the learning and graduation processes. The other people who live here assume that a college education is a "bad thing" because their children will move away and not be with the family. Some people get degrees and write about these perceptions, and then we know more. Mia -----Original Message----- From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of David Gene Lewis Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 9:00 AM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [ILAT] 'In', 'for', or 'with'? Klahowya all, Wow, this is turning into a great thread!, Anyway I wanted to ask another question. How many people have had the experience of culture shifting? I mean, I live in several worlds and at times can shift my thinking and language according to the circumstances. When in a Native context I know that my language and demeanor and thinking changes to fit the correct context. And when I am in the academic university context IO will change to fit that world including using a different language and demeanor. When I am with family, I feel also different, changing my thinking and language. So has anyone noticed this. Its rather odd but I think is part of what Native people do to operate in our world (s). David David Lewis University of Oregon Confederated Tribes of Grand Ronde From susan.penfield at GMAIL.COM Mon Jan 16 19:08:07 2006 From: susan.penfield at GMAIL.COM (Susan Penfield) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 12:08:07 -0700 Subject: 'In', 'for', or 'with'? In-Reply-To: <0BA7EE4D4646E0409D458D347C508B780184C75A@MAILSERV1.uni.glam.ac.uk> Message-ID: While I appreciate all of this discussion, I just want to clarify one thing related to the 'in', 'with' and 'for' concept -- When I said 'for' -- (and I add this so that there will be no more polysemy read into it) -- I was simply trying to say that linguists today (unlike the way I was trained many, many years ago) need to think of themselve as being in service to the community (therefore not only working 'with' but also working 'for' and toward community-based concerns -- as a priority ) --- I know -- there are still the academic responsibilities we all have to deal with -- but I really think the mind set -- for training those just going into the field -- is important to establish and consider. Which is not to say that there aren't many other considerations (i.e. as we see in Decolonizing Methodologies) as well. Best, Susan On 1/16/06, Cunliffe D J (Comp) wrote: > > Hi All, > > I think there is something in this conversation that strikes to the > heart of what we (or most of us I guess) are trying to achieve. > > Annie Ross wrote about the artificiality of borders between people and > that "...academic life likes to teach us academics that we > are somehow different (smarter, more this or that), but we are not. if > we > all knew that, there would be fewer problems. ... there is no 'insider' > ther is no 'outsider'. that is the big secret." > > While I am entirely happy to accept that academics aren't smarter etc, > (guess who spent 45 minutes walking around Bristol Airport car park in > the rain in the dark on Sunday night because he hadn't thought to make a > note of where he parked the car!) I really think that there are some > important issues around the insider / outsider boundary. If we fail to > recognise and manage these issues then at best our efforts will have no > effect, and at worse will cause damage. > > As an Englishman living and working in Wales and as a non-Welsh speaker > (practically) working with the Welsh language, I recognise that I am > 'outside' along several dimensions. Whilst I am happy to accept the > label "incomer", hopefully I have managed to avoid being branded as an > outright colonist. > > No matter how long I live in Wales, or how good my Welsh becomes (I > wish!) I cannot ever foresee a time in which I would actually BE Welsh - > either in my own mind or the minds of others. > > To my mind the best I can do is to recognise this and to try to identify > appropriate ways of managing it. > > Being a simple computer person, my preference is for simple practical > guidelines like those contained in (part of) Decolonizing Methodologies > rather than high brow discussions of the need to re-radicalise the > post-colonial agenda within the post-modern neo-liberal context (hmmm... > can't help feeling that I ought to have included feminism in there > somewhere...) > > Be seeing you, > > Daniel. > -- Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. Department of English Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program American Indian Language Development Institute Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US Mon Jan 16 20:14:30 2006 From: MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US (Mia Kalish) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 13:14:30 -0700 Subject: Test materials available on web In-Reply-To: <000c01c61aa9$fe429750$6501a8c0@LFPMia> Message-ID: Hi, Everyone, In response to some requests I have had from people to see the test materials I used in my thesis, I have posted them on my site on the Ethnotechnology/Research/Chiricahua Immersion Learning page (http://learningforpeople.us/Research.htm). The materials were designed for use on an onsite computer, and for immediate response to learners, so they are large and can't be sent easily via email. People can use the materials on the web, and see how I approached the question. There is also the paper for additional information. If anyone knows of a free or at-least-affordable download manager, I can put the source on my site for FTP download. Mia From coyotez at UOREGON.EDU Mon Jan 16 22:00:44 2006 From: coyotez at UOREGON.EDU (David Gene Lewis) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 14:00:44 -0800 Subject: 'In', 'for', or 'with'? In-Reply-To: <003101c61ac2$54a317b0$6501a8c0@LFPMia> Message-ID: Klahowya/hi all, I too wanted to mirror Mia's perception of the comments that Anne made. I don't think I can say or write it with the same degree of carefull understanding, but I didn't appreciate the apparent off-hand comment to "fuck labelers". you have no idea what I have gone through in my life to get to where I am, nor what my people have gone through to survive to this point. I seems like an awefully hostile comment for one who professes to love and have peace with people to make such a declaration. Perhaps you would do better to listen to people, and hear what they have to say, rather than striking out with such an insulting and assuming label yourself. david From djcunlif at GLAM.AC.UK Tue Jan 17 12:20:55 2006 From: djcunlif at GLAM.AC.UK (Cunliffe D J (Comp)) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 12:20:55 -0000 Subject: 'In', 'for', or 'with'? plus 'eh?' Message-ID: Hi All, Well this list certainly seems to be livening up! Susan Penfield wrote: "...linguists today (unlike the way I was trained many, many years ago) need to think of themselve as being in service to the community (therefore not only working 'with' but also working 'for' and toward community-based concerns -- as a priority )..." Which I think I would go along with, and which parallels many of the concerns within "culturally appropriate" computing at the moment. People are challenging previously well accepted notions of usability and particular development methods, recognising that these contain cultural bias. This is why I am interested in the cross-over of ideas and methods from other disciplines that have already had this revelation. As an aside, I was wondering whether there are tensions between prioritising the needs of the community versus prioritising the needs of the language? What is best for one is not necessarily best for the other. In response to Annie Ross' email, firstly I didn't particularly see it as an attack on me or my views as some have (but maybe I am just dull). "Love" might indeed be a radical concept in some contexts (perhaps in a society based on arranged marriages), but equally it can be reactionary, or even just total bollocks. (In case anyone thinks that 'bollocks' is an indecent word I refer you to the Sex Pistols court case: http://www.acc.umu.se/~samhain/summerofhate/courtcase.html) When I spoke of the need to "...re-radicalise the post-colonial agenda within the post-modern neo-liberal context..." is was intended to be a humorous example of the sort of thing that people like myself, who do not have a grounding in these concepts, find difficult to put into practice. It wasn't meant to make any sense - if it did it was by accident rather than by design (a little knowledge is a dangerous thing!). Of course "fuck" is just a good old-fashioned Anglo-Saxon way of saying "make love to", and I think suggesting that we make love to the labellers is a charming suggestion. Of course humour is one of those very difficult areas with regard to cultural differences - feel free to inset smileys in any of the above wherever makes you most happy. Be seeing you, Daniel. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrekar at NCIDC.ORG Tue Jan 17 20:05:57 2006 From: andrekar at NCIDC.ORG (Andre Cramblit) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 12:05:57 -0800 Subject: Call for LOVE LETTERS (Fictitious or Real) Message-ID: I have got something for you: Call for LOVE LETTERS (Fictitious or Real) Artist Betty Bastai invites members of the public to write a love letter of any length by hand. You may write it in your mother language if different from English and send it as soon as possible to the artist's address: Betty Bastai 811 SE Pasek Street Oak Harbor WA 98277-5427 The received letters will be then torn into pieces and exhibited on a section of the floor of the Viking Union Gallery, Western Washington University, Bellingham, as a part of the drawing installation Naked Voyage scheduled to be on display from February 20 until March 17, 2006 contact info: (360) 675-7746 or bettybastai at hotmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From djcunlif at GLAM.AC.UK Thu Jan 19 10:21:39 2006 From: djcunlif at GLAM.AC.UK (Cunliffe D J (Comp)) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 10:21:39 -0000 Subject: ToC - Minority Languages, Multimedia and the Web Message-ID: Minority Languages, Multimedia and the Web Special Issue of the New Review of Hypermedia and Multimedia Volume 11, Number 2 / December 2005 Guest-edited by Daniel Cunliffe and Susan Herring Abstracts available freely online: http://www.journalsonline.tandf.co.uk/link.asp?id=j61m14138672 Introduction available freely online: http://www.journalsonline.tandf.co.uk/link.asp?id=j433r01605759l51 Contents Introduction to Minority Languages, Multimedia and the Web pp. 131 - 137 Daniel Cunliffe and Susan C. Herring http://www.journalsonline.tandf.co.uk/link.asp?id=j433r01605759l51 Digital libraries and minority languages pp. 139 - 155 David M. Nichols, Ian H. Witten, Te Taka Keegan, David Bainbridge, Michael Dewsnip Promoting minority-language use in a bilingual online community pp. 157 - 179 D. Cunliffe and R. Harries Immersion multimedia for adult Chiricahua language learners pp. 181 - 203 M. Kalish Resistance to globalization: Language and Internet diffusion patterns in Uzbekistan pp. 205 - 220 Carolyn Y. Wei and Beth E. Kolko Language-sensitive search behaviour and the role of domain knowledge pp. 221 - 246 A. Kralisch and B. Berendt Review of script displays of African languages by current software pp. 247 - 255 Quintin Gee Regards, Daniel Cunliffe -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From delancey at UOREGON.EDU Thu Jan 19 16:16:18 2006 From: delancey at UOREGON.EDU (Scott DeLancey) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 08:16:18 -0800 Subject: Recognition of community efforts In-Reply-To: <39a679e20601161108y1eebf42em5204c6f10d5279de@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: >From the latest SSILA Bulletin: (SSILA = Society for the Study of the Indigenous Languages of the Americas, an organization of linguists) ======================================================= * Lakota Consortium awarded Ken Hale Prize ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ SSILA's Ken Hale Prize, which honors those who strive to link the academic and community spheres in the spirit of Ken Hale, was awarded this year to the non-profit Lakota Language Consortium (LLC), a nonprofit organization dedicated to rescuing the Lakota Sioux language. The prize and cash award were presented in recognition of the organization's outstanding community language work and deep commitment to the documentation, maintenance, promotion, and revitalization of the Lakota language, one of the country's largest remaining Native American languages. Pam Bunte, chair of the 2005 Ken Hale Prize selection committee, described the factors that led to the decision. "We were really impressed. The Lakota Language Consortium has done a great job with their documentation. Their materials have made it easier for community members to teach the language. They work closely with many people throughout the community and the praise of their efforts was truly amazing." The committee also included Nora England, Michael Krauss, and Roberto Zavala Maldonado. Wilhelm K. Meya, Executive Director of the organization, received the prize on behalf of the Board of Directors. The Lakota Language Consortium is made up of numerous committed community members and linguists (see the LLC website, http://www.lakhota.org). As one of the largest language revitalization organizations in the country, its materials are used by over twenty-two school systems and expose over 4000 children to the Lakota language. In addition to Meya, the LLC's Board of Directors includes Jan Ulrich, who leads the organization's materials development work, and Leonard Little Finger, who directs the Lakota Language Studies program at Loneman School in Oglala, South Dakota. From susan.penfield at GMAIL.COM Thu Jan 19 16:20:54 2006 From: susan.penfield at GMAIL.COM (Susan Penfield) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 09:20:54 -0700 Subject: Recognition of community efforts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This is certainly a well deserved prize! The materials being produced are not only supportive of language revitalization, community-based, and widely implemented, -- they are also beautifully and creatively done... Congratualtions to all involved! Susan On 1/19/06, Scott DeLancey wrote: > > From the latest SSILA Bulletin: > (SSILA = Society for the Study of the Indigenous Languages of the > Americas, an organization of linguists) > ======================================================= > > * Lakota Consortium awarded Ken Hale Prize > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > SSILA's Ken Hale Prize, which honors those who strive to link the academic > and community spheres in the spirit of Ken Hale, was awarded this year to > the non-profit Lakota Language Consortium (LLC), a nonprofit organization > dedicated to rescuing the Lakota Sioux language. The prize and cash award > were presented in recognition of the organization's outstanding community > language work and deep commitment to the documentation, maintenance, > promotion, and revitalization of the Lakota language, one of the country's > largest remaining Native American languages. > > Pam Bunte, chair of the 2005 Ken Hale Prize selection committee, described > the factors that led to the decision. "We were really impressed. The > Lakota Language Consortium has done a great job with their documentation. > Their materials have made it easier for community members to teach the > language. They work closely with many people throughout the community and > the praise of their efforts was truly amazing." The committee also > included Nora England, Michael Krauss, and Roberto Zavala Maldonado. > > Wilhelm K. Meya, Executive Director of the organization, received the > prize on behalf of the Board of Directors. The Lakota Language Consortium > is made up of numerous committed community members and linguists (see > the LLC website, http://www.lakhota.org). As one of the largest language > revitalization organizations in the country, its materials are used by > over twenty-two school systems and expose over 4000 children to the Lakota > language. In addition to Meya, the LLC's Board of Directors includes > Jan Ulrich, who leads the organization's materials development work, and > Leonard Little Finger, who directs the Lakota Language Studies program at > Loneman School in Oglala, South Dakota. > -- Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. Department of English Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program American Indian Language Development Institute Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US Thu Jan 19 16:46:42 2006 From: MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US (Mia Kalish) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 09:46:42 -0700 Subject: Recognition of community efforts In-Reply-To: <39a679e20601190820q205a7f0fmdd64b59f7262d5f6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I went to this page: http://www.lakhota.org/ALPHABET/alphabet.htm The graphics are gorgeous. But I do WISH people would STOP doing things like, "h, like the x in Mexican". What if you don't know Mexican Spanish, or Northern French? People used to do this all the time in linguistic materials as if people could just pull the sounds of Russian, French, Italian, Norwegian, etc., etc., etc., etc., out of their head and figure out how the language sounded. Also, the way the little letters come together in the words, the sound patterns change. The letter doesn't always sound "like X in Y-language". It sounds how it sounds with the rhythms of what came before and what's coming after. (Tidbits from Cognitive Psychology and Cognitive Linguistics). This is one of my soapboxy items! Mia _____ From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Susan Penfield Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 9:21 AM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [ILAT] Recognition of community efforts This is certainly a well deserved prize! The materials being produced are not only supportive of language revitalization, community-based, and widely implemented, -- they are also beautifully and creatively done... Congratualtions to all involved! Susan On 1/19/06, Scott DeLancey wrote: >From the latest SSILA Bulletin: (SSILA = Society for the Study of the Indigenous Languages of the Americas, an organization of linguists) ======================================================= * Lakota Consortium awarded Ken Hale Prize ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ SSILA's Ken Hale Prize, which honors those who strive to link the academic and community spheres in the spirit of Ken Hale, was awarded this year to the non-profit Lakota Language Consortium (LLC), a nonprofit organization dedicated to rescuing the Lakota Sioux language. The prize and cash award were presented in recognition of the organization's outstanding community language work and deep commitment to the documentation, maintenance, promotion, and revitalization of the Lakota language, one of the country's largest remaining Native American languages. Pam Bunte, chair of the 2005 Ken Hale Prize selection committee, described the factors that led to the decision. "We were really impressed. The Lakota Language Consortium has done a great job with their documentation. Their materials have made it easier for community members to teach the language. They work closely with many people throughout the community and the praise of their efforts was truly amazing." The committee also included Nora England, Michael Krauss, and Roberto Zavala Maldonado. Wilhelm K. Meya, Executive Director of the organization, received the prize on behalf of the Board of Directors. The Lakota Language Consortium is made up of numerous committed community members and linguists (see the LLC website, http://www.lakhota.org) . As one of the largest language revitalization organizations in the country, its materials are used by over twenty-two school systems and expose over 4000 children to the Lakota language. In addition to Meya, the LLC's Board of Directors includes Jan Ulrich, who leads the organization's materials development work, and Leonard Little Finger, who directs the Lakota Language Studies program at Loneman School in Oglala, South Dakota. -- Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. Department of English Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program American Indian Language Development Institute Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrekar at NCIDC.ORG Mon Jan 23 19:00:36 2006 From: andrekar at NCIDC.ORG (Andre Cramblit) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 11:00:36 -0800 Subject: Native Language Preservation and Maintenance Message-ID: Department of Health & Human Services Administration for Children and Families Program Office: Administration for Native Americans Funding Opportunity Title: Native Language Preservation and Maintenance Announcement Type: Initial Funding Opportunity Number: HHS-2006-ACF-ANA-NL-0016 CFDA Number: 93.587 Due Date for Applications: 03/08/2006 Executive Summary: The Administration for Native Americans (ANA), within the Administration for Children and Families (ACF), announces the availability of Fiscal Year (FY) 2006 funds for new community-based activities under ANA's Native Language program. Financial assistance is provided utilizing a competitive process in accordance with the Native American Programs Act of 1974, as amended. ANA provides financial assistance to eligible applicants for the purpose of assisting Native Americans in assuring the survival and continuing vitality of their languages. Grants are provided under the following two categories: Category I-Assessment Grants are used to conduct the assessment needed to identify the current status of the Native American language(s) to be addressed and to establish community long- range language goals; and Category II-Design and/or Implementation Grants are to design and/or implement a preservation language project that will contribute to the achievement of the community's long-range language goal(s). I. FUNDING OPPORTUNITY DESCRIPTION Legislative Authority Native American Programs Act, 42 U.S.C. 2991 et seq. In 1992, Congressional testimony provided estimates that of the several hundred languages that once existed, only about 150 are still spoken or remembered today. Furthermore, only 20 are spoken by persons of all ages, 30 by adults of all ages, about 60 by middle- aged adults, and 45 by the most elderly. In response to this testimony, the Congress passed the Native American Languages Act of 1992 (the Act), Public Law (P.L.) 102-524, to assist Native Americans in assuring the survival and continuing vitality of their languages. Passage of the Act was an important step in an attempt to ensure the survival and continuation of Native languages. It provided the foundation upon which Tribal nations can rebuild their economic strength and enhance their rich cultural diversity. The Federal government recognizes the substantial loss of Native American languages over the past several hundred years, and acknowledges the nature and magnitude of the status of Native American languages will be better defined when eligible applicants under the Act have completed language assessments. The Administration for Native Americans (ANA) believes that the responsibility for achieving self-sufficiency rests with the governing bodies of Indian Tribes, Alaska Native Villages, and in the leadership of Native American groups. This belief supports the ANA principle that the local community and its leadership are responsible for determining goals, setting priorities, and planning and implementing programs that support the community's long-range goals. Therefore, since preserving a language and ensuring its continuation is generally one of the first steps taken toward strengthening a group's identity; activities proposed under this program announcement will contribute to the social development of Native communities and significantly contribute to their efforts toward self-sufficiency. The Administration for Native Americans recognizes that eligible applicants must have the opportunity to develop their own language plans, improve technical capabilities, and have access to the necessary financial and technical resources in order to assess, plan, develop and implement programs to assure the survival and continuing vitality of their languages. ANA also recognizes that potential applicants may have specialized knowledge and capabilities to address specific language concerns at various levels. This program announcement reflects these special needs and circumstances. In response to this announcement, ANA encourages Native American Tribes and organizational leaders to propose, coordinate and implement community-based projects to meet the needs of its community members and develop options and opportunities for future generations. This program announcement will emphasize community-based, locally designed projects. This emphasis will increase the number of grants to local community organizations and expand the number of partnerships among locally based non-profit organizations. ANA will accept applications from multiple organizations in the same geographic area. Although Tribes are limited to three simultaneous ANA grants (one each under Social and Economic Development Strategies (SEDS), Native Language and Environmental programs) at any one time, this clarification allows other community-based organizations to apply for ANA funding, provided the objectives and activities do not duplicate currently funded projects serving the same geographic area. ANA Program Announcements are goal-category specific. ANA will release separate program announcements for funding opportunities under SEDS, Native Language Preservation and Maintenance, Environmental Regulatory Enhancement, and for special initiatives. The ANA Native Language Program Areas of Interest are projects that ANA considers supportive to Native American communities. Although eligibility for funding is not restricted to projects of the type listed in this program announcement, these Areas of Interest are ones which ANA sees as particularly beneficial to the development of healthy Native American communities. ANA Administrative Policies: Applicants must comply with the following ANA Administrative Policies: An applicant must provide a 20 percent non-Federal match of the approved project costs. Applications originating from American Samoa, Guam, or the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands are covered under section 501(d) of Public Law 95-134, as amended (48 U.S.C. 1469a), under which the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) waives any requirement for matching funds under $200,000 (including in-kind contributions). An application from a Tribe, Alaska Native Village or Native American organization must be from the governing body. A non-profit organization submitting an application must submit proof of its non-profit status at the time of submission. The non-profit organization can accomplish this by providing one of the following verifiable documents: (1) a reference to the applicant organization's listing in the Internal Revenue Service's (IRS) most recent list of tax-exempt organizations described in the IRS Code; (2) a copy of the currently valid IRS tax exemption certificate; (3) a statement from a State taxing body, State Attorney General, or other appropriate State official certifying that the applicant organization has a non-profit status and none of the net earnings accrue to any private shareholders or individuals; (4) a certified copy of the organization's certificate of incorporation or similar document that clearly establishes non-profit status; or (5) any of the items in the subparagraphs immediately above for a State or national parent organization and a statement signed by the parent organization that the applicant organization is a local non-profit affiliate. Organizations incorporating in American Samoa are cautioned that the Samoan government relies exclusively upon IRS determination of non- profit status; therefore, articles of incorporation approved by the Samoan government do not establish non-profit status for the purpose of ANA eligibility. If the applicant, other than a Tribe or an Alaska Native Village government, is proposing a project benefiting Native Americans, Alaska Natives, or both, it must provide assurance that its duly elected or appointed board of directors is representative of the community to be served. An applicant's governing board will be considered representative of the community to be served if the applicant demonstrates that at least a majority of the board individuals fall into one or more of the following categories: (1) a current or past member of the community to be served; (2) a prospective participant or beneficiary of the project to be funded; (3) have experience working with the community to be served by the project; or (4) have a cultural relationship with the community to be served. Applicants must describe how the proposed project objectives and activities relate to a locally determined strategy. ANA will review proposed projects to ensure applicants have considered all resources available to the community to support the project. Proposed projects must present a strategy to overcome the challenges that hinder movement toward self-sufficiency in the community. All funded applications will be reviewed to ensure that the applicant has provided a positive statement to give credit to ANA on all materials developed using ANA funds. ANA will not accept applications from Tribal components that are Tribally authorized divisions unless the ANA application includes a Tribal resolution. ANA will only accept one application per eligible entity. The first application received by ANA shall be the application considered for competition unless ANA is notified in writing which application should be considered for competitive review. An applicant can have only one active ANA Native Language grant operating at any given time. ANA funds short-term projects, not programs. Projects must have definitive goals and objectives that will be achieved by the end of the project period. All projects funded by ANA must be completed, self-sustaining, or supported by other than ANA funding at the end of the project period. Prior to funding the second or third year of a multi-year grant, ANA will require verification and support documentation from the grantee that objectives and outcomes proposed in the preceding year were accomplished, and the non-Federal share requirement has been met. ANA reviews the quarterly and annual reports of grantees to determine if the grantee is meeting its goals, objectives and activities identified in the Objective Work Plan. Applications from National and Regional organizations must clearly demonstrate a need for the project; explain how the project originated; and discuss the community-based delivery strategy of the project; identify and describe the intended beneficiaries; describe and relate the actual project benefits to the community and organization; and describe a community-based delivery system. National and Regional organizations must describe their membership, define how the organization operates, and demonstrate Native community and/or Tribal government support for the project. The type of community to be served will determine the type of documentation necessary to support the project. ANA Definitions: Program specific terms and concepts are defined and should be used as a guide in writing and submitting the proposed project. The funding for allowable projects in this program announcement are based on the following definitions: Authorized Representative: The person or person(s) authorized by Tribal or Organizational resolution to execute documents and other actions required by outside agencies. Budget Period: The interval of time into which the project period is divided for budgetary or funding purposes, and for which a grant is made. A budget period usually lasts one year in a multi-year project period. Community: A group of people residing in the same geographic area that can apply their own cultural and socio-economic values in implementing ANA's program objectives and goals. In discussing the applicant's community, the following information should be provided: (1) a description of the population segment within the community to be served or impacted; (2) the size of the community; (3) geographic description or location, including the boundaries of the community; (4) demographic data on the target population; and (5) the relationship of the community to any larger group or Tribe. Community Involvement: How the community participated in the development of the proposed project, how the community will be involved during the project implementation and after the project is completed. Evidence of community involvement can include, but is not limited to, certified petitions, public meeting minutes, surveys, needs assessments, newsletters, special meetings, public council meetings, public committee meetings, public hearings, and annual meetings with representatives from the community. Completed Project: A project funded by ANA is finished, self- sustaining, or funded by other than ANA funds, and the results and outcomes are achieved by the end of the project period. Consortium - Tribe / Village: A group of Tribes or Villages that join together either for long-term purposes or for the purpose of an ANA project. Construction: The initial building of a facility. Core Administration: Salaries and other expenses for those functions that support the applicant's organization as a whole or for purposes that are unrelated to the actual management or implementation of the ANA project. Equipment: Tangible, non-expendable personal property, including exempt property, charged directly to the award having a useful life of more than one year and an acquisition cost of $5,000 or more per unit. However, consistent with recipient policy, lower limits may be established. Impact Indicators: Measurement descriptions used to identify the outcomes or results of the project. Outcomes or results must be quantifiable, measurable, verifiable and related to the outcome of the project to determine that the project has achieved its desired objective and can be independently verified through ANA monitoring and evaluation. In-kind Contributions: In-kind contributions are the value of goods and/or services third parities donate for program or project purposes without charge to a recipient (or sub-recipient or cost-type contractor under a grant). Any proposed in-kind match must meet the applicable requirements found in 45 CFR Part 74 and Part 92. Letter of Commitment: A third-party statement to document the intent to provide specific in-kind contributions or cash to support the applicant. The Letter of Commitment must state the dollar amount (if applicable), the length of time the commitment will be honored, and the conditions under which the organization will support the proposed ANA project. If a dollar amount is included, the amount must be based on market and historical rates charged and paid. The resources to be committed may be human, natural, physical, or financial, and may include other Federal and non-Federal resources. Statements about resources which have been committed to support a proposed project made in the application without supporting documentation will be disregarded. Leveraged Resources: The total dollar value of all non-ANA resources that are committed to a proposed ANA project and are supported by documentation that exceed the 20 percent non-Federal match required for an ANA grant. Such resources may include any natural, financial, and physical resources available within the Tribe, organization, or community to assist in the successful completion of the project. An example would be a letter from an organization that agrees to provide a supportive action, product, and service, human or financial contribution that will add to the potential success of the project. Minor Renovation or Alteration: Work required to change the interior arrangements or other physical characteristics of an existing facility, or install equipment so that it may be more effectively used for the project. Minor alteration and renovation may include work referred to as improvements, conversion, rehabilitation, remodeling, or modernization, but is distinguished from construction and major renovations. A minor alteration and or renovation must be incidental and essential for the project ("incidental" meaning the total alteration and renovation budget must not exceed the lesser of $150,000 or 25 percent of total direct costs approved for the entire project period). Multi-purpose Organization: A community-based corporation whose charter specifies that the community designates the Board of Directors and/or officers of the organization through an elective procedure and that the organization functions in several different areas of concern to the members of the local Native American community. These areas are specified in the by-laws and/or policies adopted by the organization. They may include, but need not be limited to, economic, artistic, cultural, and recreational activities, and the delivery of human services such as day care, education, and training. Multi-year Project: Encompasses a single theme and requires more than 12 months and up to 24 or 36 months to complete. A multi-year project affords the applicant an opportunity to develop and address more complex and in-depth strategies that cannot be completed in one year. A multi-year project is a series of related objectives with activities presented in chronological order over a two or three-year period. Objective(s): Specific outcomes or results to be achieved within the proposed project period that are specified in the OWP. Completion of objectives must result in specific, measurable outcomes that would benefit the community and directly contribute to the achievement of the stated community goals. Applicants should relate their proposed project objectives to outcomes that support the community's long- range goals. Objectives are an important component of Criterion Three and are the foundation for the OWPs. Objective Work Plan (OWP): The project plan the applicant will use in meeting the results and benefits expected for the project. The results and benefits are directly related to the Impact Indicators. The OWP provides detailed descriptions of how, when, where, by whom and why activities are proposed for the project and is complemented and condensed in the OWP. ANA will require separate OWPs for each year of the project (OMB# 0980-0204, exp. 10/31/06). Partnerships: Agreements between two or more parties that will support the development and implementation of the proposed project. Partnerships include other faith-based or community-based organizations or associations, Tribes, Federal and State agencies and private or non-profit organizations, which may include faith-based organizations. Real Property: Land, including land improvements, structures, and appurtenances thereto, excluding movable machinery and equipment. Resolution: Applicants are required to include a current signed and dated Resolution (a formal decision voted on by the official governing body) in support of the project for the entire project period. The Resolution should indicate who is authorized to sign documents and negotiate on behalf of the Tribe or organization. The Resolution should indicate that the community was involved in the project planning process, and indicate the specific dollar amount of any non-Federal matching funds (if applicable). Sustainable Project: A sustainable project is an ongoing program or service that can be maintained without additional ANA funds. Self-Sufficiency: The ability to generate resources to meet a community's needs in a sustainable manner. A community's progress toward self-sufficiency is based on its efforts to plan, organize, and direct resources in a comprehensive manner that is consistent with its established long-range goals. For a community to be self- sufficient, it must have local access to, control of, and coordination of services and programs that safeguard the health, well- being, and culture of the people that reside and work in the community. Total Approved Project Costs: The sum of the Federal request and the non-Federal share. Please note that this announcement is divided into two program areas. The first program area is: Category I - Assessment Grant and the second program area is: Category II - Design and/or Implementation Grants. Information on the second program area immediately follows Section VIII of program area one. The Standard Form (SF) 424 must clearly indicate the correct program area you are applying for. Priority Area 1: Native Language Preservation and Maintenance: Category I - Assessment Grant Description The purpose of an Assessment Grant is to conduct an assessment and to develop the plan needed to describe the current status of the language (s) to be addressed and to establish community long-range goal(s) to ensure its survival. Program Area of Interest: Data collection, compilation, organization and description of current language status through a "formal" method (e.g., work performed by a linguist, and/or a language survey conducted by community members) or an "informal" method (e.g., a community consensus of the language status based on elders, Tribal scholars, and/or other community members). II. AWARD INFORMATION Funding Instrument Type: Grant Anticipated Total Priority Area Funding: $500,000 Anticipated Number of Awards: 5 to 10 Ceiling on Amount of Individual Awards: $100,000 per project period Floor on Amount of Individual Awards: $50,000 per project period Average Projected Award Amount: $75,000 per project period Length of Project Periods: 12-month project and budget period Awards under this announcement are subject to the availability of funds. III. ELIGIBILITY INFORMATION 1. Eligible Applicants: Federally recognized Indian Tribes; Consortia of Indian Tribes; Incorporated non-Federally recognized Tribes; Incorporated non-profit multi-purpose community-based Indian organizations; Urban Indian Centers; National or regional incorporated non-profit Native American organizations with Native American community-specific objectives; Alaska Native Villages, as defined in the Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act and/or non-profit Village consortia; Incorporated non-profit Alaska Native multi-purpose community-based organizations; Non-profit Alaska Native Regional Corporations/Associations in Alaska with Village-specific projects; Non-profit Native organizations in Alaska with Village-specific projects; Public and non-profit private agencies serving Native Hawaiians; Public and non-profit private agencies serving Native peoples from Guam, American Samoa, or the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands (the populations served may be located on these islands or in the United States); Tribally controlled Community Colleges, Tribally controlled Post- Secondary Vocational Institutions, and colleges and universities located in Hawaii, Guam, American Samoa or the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands, which serve Native American Pacific Islanders; and Non-profit Alaska Native community entities or Tribal governing bodies (Indian Reorganization Act or Traditional Councils) as recognized by the Bureau of Indian Affairs. Faith-based and community organizations that meet the statutory eligibility requirements are eligible to apply under this announcement. Please see Section IV for required documentation supporting eligibility or funding restrictions if any are applicable. 2. Cost Sharing or Matching: Yes Grantees are required to meet a non-Federal share of the project costs, in accordance with 42 U.S.C. 2991 b-3 (e) (1). Grantees must provide at least20 percent of the total approved cost of the project. The total approved cost of the project is the sum of the ACF share and the non-Federal share. The non-Federal share may be met by cash or in-kind contributions, although applicants are encouraged to meet their match requirements through cash contributions. For example, in order to meet the match requirements, a project with a total approved project cost of $125,000, requesting $100,000 in ACF funds, must provide a non-Federal share of at least $25,000 (20 percent of total approved project cost of $125,000.) Grantees will be held accountable for commitments of non-Federal resources even if they exceed the amount of the required match. Failure to provide the required amount will result in the disallowance of Federal funds. A lack of supporting documentation at the time of application will not exclude the application from competitive review. The non-Federal match will be evaluated according to the "Non-Federal Resources" evaluation criterion found in Section V of this announcement. 3. Other: D-U-N-S Requirement All applicants must have a D&B Data Universal Numbering System (D-U-N- S) number. On June 27, 2003, the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) published in the Federal Register a new Federal policy applicable to all Federal grant applicants. The policy requires Federal grant applicants to provide a D-U-N-S number when applying for Federal grants or cooperative agreements on or after October 1, 2003. The D-U-N-S number will be required whether an applicant is submitting a paper application or using the government-wide electronic portal, Grants.gov. A D-U-N-S number will be required for every application for a new award or renewal/continuation of an award, including applications or plans under formula, entitlement, and block grant programs, submitted on or after October 1, 2003. Please ensure that your organization has a D-U-N-S number. You may acquire a D-U-N-S number at no cost by calling the dedicated toll- free D-U-N-S number request line at 1-866-705-5711 or you may request a number on-line at http://www.dnb.com. Proof of Non-Profit Status Non-profit organizations applying for funding are required to submit proof of their non-profit status. Proof of non-profit status is any one of the following: A reference to the applicant organization's listing in the IRS's most recent list of tax-exempt organizations described in the IRS Code. A copy of a currently valid IRS tax-exemption certificate. A statement from a State taxing body, State attorney general, or other appropriate State official certifying that the applicant organization has non-profit status and that none of the net earnings accrue to any private shareholders or individuals. A certified copy of the organization's certificate of incorporation or similar document that clearly establishes non-profit status. Any of the items in the subparagraphs immediately above for a State or national parent organization and a statement signed by the parent organization that the applicant organization is a local non-profit affiliate. When applying electronically, we strongly suggest that you attach your proof of non-profit status with your electronic application. Private, non-profit organizations are encouraged to submit with their applications the survey located under Grant Related Documents and Forms: Survey for Private, Non-Profit Grant Applicants, titled, Survey on Ensuring Equal Opportunity for Applicants, at: http:// www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/ofs/forms.htm. Disqualification Factors Applications that exceed the ceiling amount will be deemed non- responsive and will not be considered for funding under this announcement. Any application that fails to satisfy the deadline requirements referenced in Section IV.3 will be deemed non-responsive and will not be considered for funding under this announcement. Applications that do not include a current signed and dated Resolution (a formal decision voted on by the official governing body) in support of the project for the entire project period will be considered non-responsive and will not be considered for competition. If the applicant is not a Tribe or Alaska Native Village government, applications that do not include proof that a majority of the governing board individuals are representative of the community to be served will be considered non-responsive and will not be considered for competition. IV. APPLICATION AND SUBMISSION INFORMATION 1. Address to Request Application Package: Region I East - Native American Management Services, Inc (http:// www.anaeastern.org) Region II West - ACKCO (http://www.anawestern.org) Region III Alaska - Native American Management Services, Inc. (http:// www.anaalaska.org) Region IV Pacific - Council for Native Hawaiian Advancement (http:// www.anapacific.org) Phone: 877-922-9262 Email: ana at acf.hhs.gov URL: http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/ana 2. Content and Form of Application Submission: Please refer to Section I, Funding Opportunity Description to review general ANA Administrative Policies and in Section IV for Funding Restrictions. Application Submission: A complete application for assistance under this program announcement consists of three parts. Part One includes the SF-424, required government forms, and other required documents. Part Two of the application is the project narrative. This Part of the application may not exceed 40 pages. The budget and budget justification are exempt from the page limit. Part Three of the application is the Appendix. This section of the application may not exceed 20 pages (the exception to this 20-page limit applies only to projects that require, if relevant to the project, a Business Plan or any Third-Party Agreements). Organization and Preparation of Application: Due to the intensity and pace of the application review and evaluation process, ANA strongly recommends applicants organize, label, and insert required information in accordance with Part One, Part Two and Part Three as presented in the table below. The application begins with the information requested in Part One of the table below. Part Two is the project narrative and includes the ANA evaluation review criteria. The six ANA review criteria should be presented in the following order: Criteria One - Introduction and Project Summary; Criteria Two - Need for Assistance; Criteria Three - Project Approach; Criteria Four - Organizational Capacity; Criteria Five - Project Impact/ Evaluation; and Criteria Six- Budget and Budget Justification/Cost Effectiveness. Part Three is the Appendix. This Part includes only supplemental information or required support documentation that addresses the applicant's capacity to carry out and fulfill the proposed project. These items may include: letters of commitment, letters of agreement with partners or cooperating entities, and position descriptions. Utilizing this format will insure all information submitted to support an applicant's request for funding is thoroughly reviewed and will assist the panel reviewer in locating and evaluating the requested information. ANA Application Format: Applications should be labeled in compliance with the format provided in the program announcement. The paper size shall be 8.5 x 11 inches, line spacing shall be a space and a half (1.5 line spacing), printed only on one side, and have no less than a half-inch margin on all sides of the paper. The font size shall be 12- point and the font type shall be Times New Roman. These requirements only apply to the project narrative in Part Two. Forms and Certifications The project description should include all the information requirements described in the specific evaluation criteria outlined in this program announcement under Section V. Application Review Information. In addition to the project description, the applicant needs to complete all of the Standard Forms required as part of the application process for awards under this announcement. Applicants seeking financial assistance under this announcement must file the appropriate Standard Forms as described in this section. All applicants must submit SF-424, Application for Federal Assistance. For non-construction programs, applicants must also submit SF-424A, Budget Information and SF-424B, Assurances. For construction programs, applicants must also submit SF-424C, Budget Information and SF-424D, Assurances. The forms may be reproduced for use in submitting applications. Applicants must sign and return the standard forms with their application. Applicants must furnish prior to award an executed copy of the SF- LLL, Certification Regarding Lobbying, when applying for an award in excess of $100,000. Applicants who have used non-Federal funds for lobbying activities in connection with receiving assistance under this announcement shall complete a disclosure form, if applicable, with their application. Applicants must sign and return the certification with their application. Applicants must also understand that they will be held accountable for the smoking prohibition included within Public Law (P.L.) 103-227, Title XII Environmental Tobacco Smoke (also known as the PRO- KIDS Act of 1994). A copy of the Federal Register notice that implements the smoking prohibition is included with this form. By signing and submitting the application, applicants are providing the necessary certification and are not required to return it. Applicants must make the appropriate certification of their compliance with all Federal statutes relating to nondiscrimination. By signing and submitting the application, applicants are providing the necessary certification and are not required to return it. Complete the standard forms and the associated certifications and assurances based on the instructions on the forms. The forms and certifications may be found at: http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/ofs/ forms.htm. Applicants must understand that they will be held accountable for the Maintenance of Effort Certification. By signing and submitting the application, applicants are providing the necessary certification and acknowledge that a signed form will be required prior to award. Private, non-profit organizations are encouraged to submit with their applications the survey located under Grant Related Documents and Forms: Survey for Private, Non-Profit Grant Applicants, titled, Survey on Ensuring Equal Opportunity for Applicants, at: http:// www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/ofs/forms.htm. Those organizations required to provide proof of non-profit status, please refer to Section III.3. Please see Section V.1 for instructions on preparing the full project description. Please reference Section IV.3 for details about acknowledgement of received applications. Electronic Submission You may submit your application to us in either electronic or paper format. To submit an application electronically, please use the http://www.Grants.gov site. If you use Grants.gov, you will be able to download a copy of the application package, complete it off-line, and then upload and submit the application via the Grants.gov site. ACF will not accept grant applications via facsimile or email. IMPORTANT NOTE: Before you submit an electronic application, you must complete the organization registration process as well as obtain and register "electronic signature credentials" for the Authorized Organization Representative (AOR). Since this process may take more than five business days, it is important to start this process early, well in advance of the application deadline. Be sure to complete all Grants.gov registration processes listed on the Organization Registration Checklist, which can be found at http://www.acf.hhs.gov/ grants/registration_checklist.html. Please note the following if you plan to submit your application electronically via Grants.gov: Electronic submission is voluntary, but strongly encouraged. You may access the electronic application for this program at http:// www.Grants.gov. There you can search for the downloadable application package by utilizing the Grants.gov FIND function. We strongly recommend that you do not wait until the application deadline date to begin the application process through Grants.gov. We encourage applicants that submit electronically to submit well before the closing date and time so that if difficulties are encountered an applicant can still submit a hard copy via express mail. To use Grants.gov, you, as the applicant, must have a D-U-N-S number and register in the Central Contractor Registry (CCR). You should allow a minimum of five days to complete the CCR registration. REMINDER: CCR registration expires each year and thus must be updated annually. You cannot upload an application to Grants.gov without having a current CCR registration AND electronic signature credentials for the AOR. The electronic application is submitted by the AOR. To submit electronically, the AOR must obtain and register electronic signature credentials approved by the organization's E-Business Point of Contact who maintains the organization's CCR registration. You may submit all documents electronically, including all information typically included on the SF-424 and all necessary assurances and certifications. Your application must comply with any page limitation requirements described in this program announcement. After you electronically submit your application, you will receive an automatic acknowledgement from Grants.gov that contains a Grants.gov tracking number. ACF will retrieve your application from Grants.gov. ACF may request that you provide original signatures on forms at a later date. You will not receive additional point value because you submit a grant application in electronic format, nor will we penalize you if you submit an application in hard copy. If you encounter difficulties in using Grants.gov, please contact the Grants.gov Help Desk at: 1-800-518-4726, or by email at support at grants.gov to report the problem and obtain assistance. Checklists and registration brochures are maintained at http:// www.grants.gov/GetStarted to assist you in the registration process. When submitting electronically via Grants.gov, applicants must comply with all due dates AND times referenced in Section IV.3. Hard Copy Submission Applicants that are submitting their application in paper format should submit one original and two copies of the complete application. The original and each of the two copies must include all required forms, certifications, assurances, and appendices, be signed by an authorized representative, have original signatures, and be unbound. Non-Federal Reviewers Since ACF will be using non-Federal reviewers in the review process, applicants have the option of omitting from the application copies (not the original) specific salary rates or amounts for individuals specified in the application budget as well as Social Security Numbers, if otherwise required for individuals. The copies may include summary salary information. If applicants are submitting their application electronically, ACF will omit the same specific salary rate information from copies made for use during the review and selection process. 3. Submission Dates and Times: Due Date for Applications: 03/08/2006 Explanation of Due Dates The due date for receipt of applications is referenced above. Applications received after 4:30 p.m., eastern time, on the due date will be classified as late and will not be considered in the current competition. Applicants are responsible for ensuring that applications are mailed or hand-delivered or submitted electronically well in advance of the application due date and time. Mail Applications that are submitted by mail must be received no later than 4:30 p.m., eastern time, on the due date referenced above at the address listed in Section IV.6. Hand Delivery Applications hand carried by applicants, applicant couriers, other representatives of the applicant, or by overnight/express mail couriers must be received on or before the due date referenced above, between the hours of 8:00 a.m. and 4:30 p.m., eastern time, at the address referenced in Section IV.6., between Monday and Friday (excluding Federal holidays). Electronic Submission Applications submitted electronically via Grants.gov must be submitted no later than 4:30 p.m., eastern time, on the due date referenced above. ACF cannot accommodate transmission of applications by facsimile or email. Late Applications Applications that do not meet the requirements above are considered late applications. ACF shall notify each late applicant that its application will not be considered in the current competition. ANY APPLICATION RECEIVED AFTER 4:30 P.M., EASTERN TIME, ON THE DUE DATE WILL NOT BE CONSIDERED FOR COMPETITION. .:. Andr? Cramblit: andre.p.cramblit.86 at alum.dartmouth.org is the Operations Director Northern California Indian Development Council NCIDC (http://www.ncidc.org) is a non-profit that meets the development needs of American Indians To subscribe to a news letter of interest to Natives send an email to: IndigenousNewsNetwork-subscribe at topica.com or go to: http:// www.topica.com/lists/IndigenousNewsNetwork/subscribe/?location=listinfo -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU Mon Jan 23 22:31:19 2006 From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 15:31:19 -0700 Subject: Native Language Preservation and Maintenance (fwd) Message-ID: Program Office: Administration for Native Americans Funding Opportunity Title: Native Language Preservation and Maintenance Announcement Type: Initial Funding Opportunity Number: HHS-2006-ACF-ANA-NL-0016 CFDA Number: 93.587 DUE DATE FOR APPLICATIONS: 03/08/2006 Executive Summary: The Administration for Native Americans (ANA), within the Administration for Children and Families (ACF), announces the availability of Fiscal Year (FY) 2006 funds for new community-based activities under ANA's Native Language program. Financial assistance is provided utilizing a competitive process in accordance with the Native American Programs Act of 1974, as amended. ANA provides financial assistance to eligible applicants for the purpose of assisting Native Americans in assuring the survival and continuing vitality of their languages. Grants are provided under the following two categories: Category I-Assessment Grants are used to conduct the assessment needed to identify the current status of the Native American language(s) to be addressed and to establish community long-range language goals; and Category II-Design and/or Implementation Grants are to design and/or implement a preservation language project that will contribute to the achievement of the community's long-range language goal(s). http://www.acf.hhs.gov/grants/open/HHS-2006-ACF-ANA-NL-0016.html[1] From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU Mon Jan 23 22:41:09 2006 From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 15:41:09 -0700 Subject: Computer Keyboard With Nigerian Languages Invented (fwd) Message-ID: Computer Keyboard With Nigerian Languages Invented January 23, 2006 By Onwuka Nzeshi Abuja http://allafrica.com/stories/200601230731.html Nigeria has recorded another major achievement in Information Technology (IT), with the invention of a customised keyboard that provides the option of writing in Nigerian languages. The equipment, which is known as Konyin keyboard, was developed in Nigeria by Lancor Technologies, with the sole aim of promoting Nigerian languages through integration into the global information super-highway. The new technology has the ability to create words in three major Nigerian languages, namely Igbo, Hausa and Yoruba. It is a facility with hardware and software that uses 63 alphanumeric keys with four shift Keys. The two unique "Shift" keys are called Shift 2. The new technology represents a significant step in allowing languages with more than 26 alphabets to use a single keyboard layout for easy and direct access typing. For instance, an average African country like Nigeria encompasses more than 10 languages and when one combines all the unique alphabets needed to cover these languages, you may need more than 26 alphabets, but Konyin keyboard has made it possible to have one keyboard with a single layout that accommodates character - sets for many combined languages. At the formal presentation to National Information and Technology Development (NITDA) in Abuja, Lancor Technologies Chief Operating Officer, Mr George Van-Lare, said the language of a nation is an important element in defining the character and identity of that nation. "This is the reason why many countries ensured that computers in use in their countries provide the option of writing and using their native languages." Van-Lare said the use of language in the electronic format provides a great variety of application to move the language forward, prepare studies, preserve originality of the thought process and ensure development and availability of the language to a broad spectrum of users worldwide. "Nigerian names over the years have not been spelt correctly. This way, it begins to diminish in content and application. The reason is that there has been no convenient medium to allow Nigerians using the electronic format address their names and language on a computer," He said, "information today is driven by computer which is the main input device for print and electronic media". Speaking further, he noted that Nigeria as a country is made up of between 250-400 native languages." Konyin incorporates all the alphabets and tonal marks needed to type in any Nigerian language in a computer environment. It incorporates 14 extended characters, 13 combining tonal marks and 4 currency (symbols all available for direct access typing on a computer. Thus typing in Nigerian languages and English (the official language) and the use of the N is made very convenient on a single Keyboard. " We have brought the keyboard to National Informational Technology Development Agency (NITDA) The custodians of the growth and development of IT in Nigeria to pilot this development on behalf of Nigeria. We believe that through NITDA, this will serve as a standard for the use of Nigerian language and Nigerian computers for the development of the broad use of computers in our country", he explained. Director-General, NITDA, Prof Cleopas Angaye commended the management of the company for its achievement and said that with the keyboard it will be very easy to make input and output on information concerning Nigerian languages. ------------------------- Copyright ? 2006 This Day. All rights reserved. Distributed by AllAfrica Global Media (allAfrica.com). ------------------------- From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU Mon Jan 23 22:48:42 2006 From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 15:48:42 -0700 Subject: Legislator steps up fight to save tribe's language (fwd) Message-ID: Monday, January 23, 2006 Legislator steps up fight to save tribe's language By Paul Carrier, Portland Press Herald Writer Copyright ? 2006 Blethen Maine Newspapers Inc. http://pressherald.mainetoday.com/news/state/060123penobscots.shtml AUGUSTA ? Michael Sockalexis, 58, remembers when he and other Penobscot children were told by their teachers not to speak their own language at school. Today, Sockalexis says, his grandchildren eagerly soak up Penobscot vocabulary in an after-school program on Indian Island. They get so excited about what they are learning, he said, that they can't wait to share it with their proud grandfather. Sockalexis, who represents his tribe in the Legislature, wants to build on such efforts and expand the Penobscot Nation's struggle to preserve its language. He has filed a bill "to develop a program to maintain and preserve the Penobscot language." The bill would deposit $300,000 in a Penobscot Language Preservation Fund operated by the state Department of Education. The state would use the money to help the tribe save its language, and to provide matching funds for additional aid from the National Endowment for the Humanities. Maine's four Indian tribes - the Penobscot Nation, Passamaquoddy Tribe, Houlton Band of Maliseets and Aroostook Band of Micmacs - speak languages that are closely related. Those tribes and the Abenakis comprise what is known as the Wabanaki Confederacy. Precise figures on the use of the Penobscot language are hard to come by, but Sockalexis said there are only "a handful of traditional speakers" among the tribe's more than 2,300 members, more than 1,000 of whom still live in Maine. Many other Penobscots know some words and phrases, he said, but they are not fluent. "My age group was the last generation to be immersed in it" at home as children, Sockalexis said, but he is no longer fluent. "I used to (speak Penobscot) as a young kid," Sockalexis said, but in the years that followed, "I lost it." The goal now is to reclaim the language by instilling it in the tribe's children, Sockalexis said, because Penobscot "is at a tipping point" and the key to preserving it "is getting it back to a conversational language." The tribe, which has a reservation on Indian Island, is working hard to do just that, using an after-school program that serves all students in the K-8 school, as well as an immersion summer camp at which students speak nothing but Penobscot. Sockalexis said his request for state funding, and the matching funds it would attract, would allow the tribe to move the language program back into the regular classroom, where it was before the money ran out. Tribal leaders in Maine say preserving native languages is important so the younger generation can understand its roots and so older people who grew up speaking an indigenous language can express themselves in a way that may be more natural to them than speaking English. "I prefer to speak (Passamaquoddy)," said Wayne Newell, 63, of Indian Township, a Passamaquoddy language coordinator and an authority on all of Maine's tribal languages. "When we were kids, that's all you spoke. That's all you had. That's all you saw," he said. Now, Newell said, native children of all tribes are unlikely to become fluent in their native languages, or to speak them at all, unless they learn them at school. "All of the indigenous languages in North America are very much in a challenged situation," he said, and Penobscot is no exception. Newell said efforts like those of Sockalexis are important because language defines people. As Edwina Mitchell of Indian Island, a Maliseet who works for the Penobscot Nation, put it: "I think Maliseet. That's why it's sometimes difficult for me to put something down in writing," because of the differences between Maliseet and English. Newell noted that verbs are more important than nouns in the Passamaquoddy language. And nouns in the family of languages that includes both Passamaquoddy and Penobscot are either animate or inanimate, in much the same way that nouns in French are masculine or feminine. "You can have a complete sentence in Passamaquoddy with one word," Newell said. He said there are some English words that have no equivalent in native languages, or that translate very differently. There is no Passamaquoddy word for "wild," for example, because "we have no concept of it" as Indians, Newell said. In Passamaquoddy, "wood-frame house" translates as "white man's wigwam," and the Passamaquoddy word for "white man" is not a descriptive term at all, but a question: "Who is this?" "Whenever you lose a language, you lose more than just a language," Newell said. "If I told you a (humorous) story in the Passamaquoddy language, it would be extremely funny to Passamaquoddy speakers," he said, but translate it into English and the humor is largely lost. "The culture is transmitted through the language," Sockalexis said, making it especially important to make Penobscot a conversational language once again. "There are legends in Penobscot that are lost in translation," Sockalexis said, reinforcing Newell's point that "if you take away a language, your field of vision becomes more limited." Staff Writer Paul Carrier can be contacted at 622-7511 or at:pcarrier at pressherald.com From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU Mon Jan 23 23:04:00 2006 From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 16:04:00 -0700 Subject: UNC Charlotte linguist restores lost language, culture for 'The New World' (fwd) Message-ID: UNC CHARLOTTE LINGUIST RESTORES LOST LANGUAGE, CULTURE FOR \'THE NEW WORLD\' Release Date: 2006-01-21 Original Link: http://presszoom.com/story_113745.html[1] The truism is that if you want to know a culture, learn the language. But what if the language and the culture are both dead ? long, long dead? (PressZoom.com) - The truism is that if you want to know a culture, learn the language. But what if the language and the culture are both dead ? long, long dead? Historical linguists, social scientists who are the archaeologists of cultures' ephemeral linguistic artifacts, have developed techniques that allow them to realistically re-create lost languages. The process, known as "language revitalization," has at least partially restored numerous languages that were known to have existed but were never recorded (or fully documented), literally allowing us to hear what the dead spoke. Generally, this has been done for academic reasons or because a culture's descendants want to try to re-establish their identity by recovering some of their lost past. Now it has been done in order to create a major motion picture. Language can be like cultural DNA, the genetic blueprint of how a civilization communicated and thought, containing the essence of a people's perspective and character. This is what Terrence Malick, director and writer of New Line Cinema's recent release The New World, discovered when he hired University of North Carolina at Charlotte linguist Blair Rudes to lend historical realism to the movie by coaching the cast in Virginia Algonquian, the language spoken by Pocahontas and other Native Americans who John Smith encountered in the founding of Jamestown. Malick had first tried to hire a native speaker, only to discover a problem ? he found that the language had been extinct since around 1785, a common fate of many of the more than 800 languages spoken in North America at the time of the European encounter. Hiring Rudes, an authority in historical and current Native American languages, he soon learned that the challenge was even greater: the only record of Virginia Algonquian was a scant list of about 500 words transcribed by Englishman William Strachey (a friend of William Shakespeare) in 1609, and a few more words recorded by Smith. "The language and culture the English encountered really is a lost world," Rudes noted. "Virginia Algonquian is a member of the Algonquian family, a large group of languages which stretched across North America. On the East Coast there were perhaps 15 Algonquian languages and a lot of other languages. All the Eastern Algonquian languages except Passamaquoddy-Maliseet (a language still spoken by Native Americans in Maine and Canada) are extinct. They were among the first Native American languages to go extinct, because they were on the coast." Malick was in luck because Rudes is also one of a handful of linguists who are authorities in the field of "language revitalization" ? the science of re-building lost languages. Rudes' science in turn, gave Malick a window into the past that was more profound than any found in the historical record. Aiming for realism, the movie sponsored the scientific resurrection of a lost culture's language. It was a more difficult job than the director probably suspected. "Originally they wanted the language revived for one scene and done by the end of the month, in keeping with the production schedule," said Rudes. "But the records of the Virginia Algonquian language are, shall we say, limited. "John Smith himself recorded about 50 words of the language and a secretary to the Jamestown colony named William Strachey published a work in 1612 ? The Histotrie of Travell into Virginia Britania -- which contains about a 600 word vocabulary of Virginia Algonquian. 600 words, of course, is not a great deal. Webster's Unabridged College Dictionary of English has about 12,000 words," he noted. With the vast majority of the language's many-thousand word vocabulary missing along with its syntax and pronunciation, Rudes had to re-build the language wholesale using the sophisticated techniques of historical linguistics. In the process, Rudes interpreted Strachey's amateur record (transcriptions of an unknown language recorded as heard by a 17th Century English ear), compared it with better-surviving records of a few related Algonquian languages as well as with words that have been passed down into English, and applied theory and scholarship on the evolution of the language family. The process, which involves interpolating the evolution of pronunciation, syntax and meaning is complicated. For example, consider the reconstruction of the Virginia Algonquian words that Strachey records for "walnut," "shoes," and two different "kinds of beast" : "paukauns," "mawcasuns," "aroughcoune" and "opposum" have passed into American English usage as "pecans," "moccasins," "raccoon" and "opossum" and can be compared to "paka?ni" (meaning "large nut"), "maxkesen," (meaning "shoe"), "la?le?čkani" (meaning "raccoon") and "wa?pa?θemwi" (meaning "white dog") words in Proto-Algonquian, the re-constructed ancestral language of Virginia Algonquian. From this, Rudes reconstructs the Virginia Algonquian words "paka?n," "mahkəsən," "a?rehkan" and " wa?pah?əm." Other recorded words were even more difficult to interpret. Strachey records the Virginia Algonquian word for "the skie" as "arrokoth," but this corresponds most closely to the Proto-Algonquian word "a?lahkwatwi" which means "it is cloudy," and Rudes derives from this the Virginia Algonquian word "a?rahkwat," with a somewhat ambiguous meaning referring to the sky. While movies frequently fictionally re-create the lost past, The New World's attempts at realism crossed the line and began to historically re-vitalize the Virginia Algonquian language and culture and revive some of past reality. For example, when Rudes translated "to the east" (a description of where England is), he had to first translate the concept to "the other side of the water," to make sense to 17th Century Native Americans. "In this case, 'a land to the east' is a problem," noted Rudes, "because east of Jamestown is water ? there is no land. At this point, all the Native Americans knew was there were these white-skinned people who lived on these islands in the Caribbean ? they had no clue about Europe." In Proto-Algonquian, the re-written phrase translates as "aka?menki," which, given interpolated language evolution becomes "aka?mənk" in Virginia Algonquian. The modified script phrase "We come from England ? an island on the other side of the water" is translated as "Inkərentənk nəwəmamən ? mənənaq aka?məunk yapa?m." The product of Rudes' work was so convincing to the director and actors that Virginia Algonquian, originally intended to be spoken in only one scene, grew to become an integral part of the film's world and was used in about a third of the movie, with English subtitles. The translation, which had to be done on-location, was a massive and intense project for the linguist. "They sent me the material here in Charlotte in June," said Rudes. "I worked on it and I went down to Williamsburg, Virginia, where they were shooting the film, and Terrence Malick heard what I had recorded -- the pronunciation of one scene. He heard it and he loved it ? he thought it was the most wonderful language he had ever heard. I spent the next month holed up in my hotel room, translating like crazy. "In the end, this became one of those rare times when a Native American language is used for the dialogue in a movie with subtitles," he said. The revitalization of Virginia Algonquian is likely to have further value beyond the celebrity of being shown to the world in a major motion picture. The production company is turning over the scripts and language CD's to the descendants of the Powhatan Confederacy, five state-recognized tribes in Virginia. Rudes expects to be working with the tribes on language reclamation programs and is working on a dictionary of Virginia Algonquian with Helen Rountree, an authority on the history of the Powhatan people. In addition to his work on Virginia Algonquian, Rudes is working on other language restoration projects with the Catawba tribe in North Carolina and the Pequot in Connecticut. Rudes does not expect the languages he works on to return to common usage, but he stresses that the project has real value for the cultures involved. "From my experience of doing language revival with different communities, it doesn't matter how much of the language people ultimately learn," he said. "What turns out to be really important is just that they learn some piece of the language because it is reclaiming their heritage. Especially here in the South, where there was early assimilation and where the languages and cultures were the earliest decimated. So much was lost that reclaiming any of it is a major event." ### Editors who need the correct linguistic spellings for Algonquian words may contact James Hathaway Source: Blair Rudes, 704-532-6153 Contact: James Hathaway jbhathaw at email.uncc.edu 704-687-6675 Links: ------ [1] http://presszoom.com/story_113745.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU Mon Jan 23 23:07:47 2006 From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 16:07:47 -0700 Subject: "New World" Film Revives Extinct Native American Tongue (fwd) Message-ID: "New World" Film Revives Extinct Native American Tongue Stefan Lovgren for National Geographic News January 20, 2006 http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/01/0120_060120_new_world.html For his movie The New World, which arrives in U.S. theaters nationwide today, director Terrence Malick wanted to accurately recreate the sights and sounds of a 17th-century English colony. The film depicts the clash between the native Algonquian Indians and English settlers at the founding of Jamestown in present-day Virginia. Malick therefore decided to have the Native American characters speak the indigenous language of the time?Virginia Algonquian. [Photo: Movie still from The New World] There was only one problem: No one had spoken the tongue for about 200 years. Enter Blair Rudes, a linguist at the University of North Carolina at Charlotte. As the amount of Virginia Algonquian dialogue spoken in the movie increased from just two scenes to more than a third of the film, Rudes found himself reconstructing an entire language that had long gone extinct. (Click here to download an audio clip.) National Geographic News recently spoke with Rudes about the challenges of bringing a language back from the dead. It sounds like the filmmakers had no idea what they were getting themselves into with this language restoration project. Terrence Malick wanted the movie to be as authentic as possible. It was his decision to use the native language indigenous to the area at the founding of Jamestown. What he didnt know was that the language had been extinct since the late 18th or early 19th century. Virginia Algonquian is part of a family of languages known as Algonquian, right? Yes, there were about 800 native languages in North America, and five or six families. The Algonquian family was one of the largest. It extended from the province of Manitoba [in Canada] to the eastern seaboard and down to North Carolina. On the East Coast, there were perhaps 15 Algonquian languages. Most no longer have any speakers. Why did the languages on the coast go extinct first? That was simply a contact phenomenon. When the English first arrived, they were the minority population, and they were dependent upon the majority Algonquian speakers for their survival. So initially they learned some Algonquian. But then the number of English kept increasing. Once the colonies could survive on their own without being dependent on the Algonquian Indians, the English stopped learning Algonquian. Meanwhile, the Algonquian ended up being dependent on the English colonies for trade goods. So they continued to learn English, because there was a long tradition going way back into pre-history of bilingualism among East Coast Native American people. They didn't mind learning another language. Gradually their own language faded out. [Photo: Movie still from The New World] Did the English make any written records of Virginia Algonquian? One of the [colony's] secretaries, a man named William Strachey, recorded a vocabulary of about 500 words of Virginia Algonquian. Then there was the word list that John Smith recorded, which was less than 50 words. That's basically all the material there is. And from this you had to reconstruct an entire language. It's fair to say the resources at your disposal were pretty limited. I had been doing similar work for [another tribal nation] in terms of reviving their ancestral language, Pequot, which is also an eastern Algonquian language. I pulled together everything that was known about every eastern Algonquian language. The real job was to figure out what Virginia Algonquian looked like in terms of pronunciation and grammar and trying to figure out which of the other eastern languages it was similar to, so I knew where to go when I needed to have a word or grammatical structure that was not attested by Strachey or Smith. How often was that? A lot. This is why I jokingly refer to the language in the film as the Blair Rudes dialect of Virginia Algonquian. The core of it is based on the material collected by Strachey and John Smith. But only maybe a quarter of the words necessary to translate the dialogue were attested in that material. I had to go elsewhere for the rest. So what would you do when you didn't have the material from Strachey and Smith to consult? I would turn to three other Algonquian languages and say, How would you say this word in those languages? If I could find two of them that agree, then I would say, OK, that's probably how the majority of the eastern Algonquian languages do it, and the third one is doing something weird. And I would make the assumption that Virginia Algonquian is saying it the same way. What is the language's sentence structure like? For the most part, subjects would come first, objects would come second, verbs would come last. But sometimes objects would come after verbs. Adverbs would frequently come at the very beginning of a sentence. So if they're saying, "I love you always," it would be, "Always I love you." Were there any particular words or expressions that were difficult to translate? [In the script] when Smith and Powhatan were first speaking, Smith said, "I come from a land to the east." But at the time Smith arrived in Jamestown, the only thing [the tribe knew of] to the east was the ocean. What we ended up saying is something like, "I come from an island at the other side of the sea." That would be conceivable, that there would be an island out there beyond what they could see. What did the language sound like to the British colonists? Would it have been difficult for them to learn? The Algonquian are among the easier [Native American languages] in terms of pronunciation for a European. They tend to be somewhat like Spanish, for example, in terms of having a consonant-vowel-consonant-vowel structure. This is one of the reasons why the English borrowed quite a number of words from the Algonquian language that we still have today, like pecan, opossum, and moccasins. How difficult was it for the actors to speak the language? They picked it up quite quickly. Some of the seasoned actors memorized their lines. The younger actors, like Q'Orianka Kilcher [who plays Pocahontas], were willing to learn the language like you would any foreign language. She would learn the pronunciation and the meaning of every single word and then string them together to make the dialogue. It must have been incredibly demanding for you too. I had no life for two months. During those first two weeks when the decision had been made to move from 2 to 40-something scenes, I basically stayed in my hotel room and translated, translated, translated and recorded, recorded, recorded. Then I had to be on location whenever they filmed a scene where Virginia Algonquian was spoken. The thing that was the most challenging was when Terrence Malick would change his mind and want an actor to say something else. He would call me in and say, OK, teach him how to say this, and I would have to do it right there and then. Sometimes I would know off the top of my head. Other times, I would have to make up something that I felt would have enough syllables in it that the actor could say it, and later we could do a voice-over to put in what should have been said. This project doesn't end with the movie for you. As soon as the DVD is released, we are going to turn over all the CDs and scripts that I had prepared for the film to the Virginia tribes for them to use in their language revitalization efforts. My job will be to consult in those efforts. Meanwhile, I'm working on an expanded full dictionary of Virginia Algonquian. All of this will be useful to the Virginia tribes in revitalizing their language. From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU Mon Jan 23 23:31:21 2006 From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 16:31:21 -0700 Subject: Indigenous Amazonians display core understanding of geometry (fwd) Message-ID: The study of geometrical understanding among the Munduruk?, who live in remote areas along the Cururu River in Brazil, is described this week in the journal Science. (Photos ? Pierre Pica and CNRS) INDIGENOUS AMAZONIANS DISPLAY CORE UNDERSTANDING OF GEOMETRY Findings Suggest Basic Geometrical Knowledge Is A Universal Constituent Of The Human Mind BY STEVE BRADT FAS Communications Researchers in France and at Harvard University have found that isolated indigenous peoples deep in the Amazon readily grasp basic concepts of geometry such as points, lines, parallelism, and right angles, and can use distance, angle, and other relationships in maps to locate hidden objects. The results suggest that geometry is a core set of intuitions present in all humans, regardless of their language or schooling. The study of geometrical understanding among the Munduruk?, who live in remote areas along the Cururu River in Brazil, is described this week in the journal Science. "Although there has been a lot of research on spatial maps, navigation, and sense of direction, there is very little work on the conceptual representations in geometry," says co-author Stanislas Dehaene of the Coll?ge de France in Paris. "What is meant by 'point,' 'line,' 'parallel,' 'square' versus 'rectangle'? All are highly idealized concepts never met in physical reality. Our work is a first start in the exploration of these concepts." The work by Dehaene and colleagues suggests that such concepts are largely universal across humans. "While geometrical concepts can be enriched by culture-specific devices like maps, or the terms of a natural language, underneath this variability lies a shared set of geometrical concepts," says co-author Elizabeth S. Spelke, a professor of psychology in Harvard's Faculty of Arts and Sciences. "These concepts allow adults and children with no formal education, and minimal spatial language, to categorize geometrical forms and to use geometrical relationships to represent the surrounding spatial layout." Dehaene, Spelke, and co-authors V?ronique Izard and Pierre Pica developed and administered two different sets of tests during visits to the Munduruk? in 2004 and 2005. Their first test, designed to assess comprehension of basic concepts such as points, lines, parallelism, figure, congruence, and symmetry, presented arrays of six images, one of which was subtly dissimilar. For instance, five comparable trapezoids might be matched with a sixth nontrapezoidal quadrilateral of similar size. The Munduruk? were then asked, in their own language, which of the images was "weird" or "ugly." Munduruk? subjects, even those as young as 6 years old, chose the correct image an average 66.8 percent of the time, showing competence with basic concepts of topology, Euclidean geometry and basic geometrical figures. The performance of both Munduruk? adults and children on the task rivaled that of American children in separate testing done by the scientists. "If the Munduruk? share with us the conceptual primitives of geometry," the researchers write, "they should infer the intended geometrical concept behind each array and therefore select the discrepant image." Munduruk? subjects, even those as young as 6 years old, chose the correct image an average 66.8 percent of the time, showing competence with basic concepts of topology, Euclidean geometry, and basic geometrical figures. The performance of both Munduruk? adults and children on the task rivaled that of American children in separate testing done by the scientists, while the performance of American adults was significantly higher. Dehaene, Spelke, and colleagues also administered an abstract map test where subjects were given a simple diagram to identify which of three containers arrayed in a triangle on the ground hid an object. Both Munduruk? adults and children were able to relate the geometrical information on the map to geometrical relationships in the environment, attaining an overall success rate of 71 percent that again matched the performance of American children while lagging behind that of American adults. The superior performance of Western adults suggests that formal education enhances or refines geometrical concepts. Nevertheless, the report concludes, "the spontaneous understanding of geometrical concepts and maps by this remote human community provides evidence that core geometrical knowledge ... is a universal constituent of the human mind." The study of human geometrical knowledge has a long history, dating back at least to Socrates' probing of the intuitions of an uneducated slave in a Greek household, chronicled by Plato approximately 2,400 years ago. "Many of the references in our paper are from Plato, Riemann, and Poincar?," Dehaene says. "What excited us was the ability to ask experimentally some questions which belong to a very long history of questions about the foundations of geometry." Dehaene, Izard, Pica, and Spelke's work was supported by INSERM, CNRS, the National Institutes of Health, and the McDonnell Foundation. http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/daily/2006/01/19-amazon.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 98296 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 78601 bytes Desc: not available URL: From MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US Tue Jan 24 01:32:48 2006 From: MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US (Mia Kalish) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 18:32:48 -0700 Subject: Native Language Preservation and Maintenance (fwd) In-Reply-To: <20060123153119.h44k00ocg0w4gkos@www.email.arizona.edu> Message-ID: Wow. Phil is Back. How nice. Hi, Phil. How is Idaho? -----Original Message----- From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of phil cash cash Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 3:31 PM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: [ILAT] Native Language Preservation and Maintenance (fwd) Program Office: Administration for Native Americans Funding Opportunity Title: Native Language Preservation and Maintenance Announcement Type: Initial Funding Opportunity Number: HHS-2006-ACF-ANA-NL-0016 CFDA Number: 93.587 DUE DATE FOR APPLICATIONS: 03/08/2006 Executive Summary: The Administration for Native Americans (ANA), within the Administration for Children and Families (ACF), announces the availability of Fiscal Year (FY) 2006 funds for new community-based activities under ANA's Native Language program. Financial assistance is provided utilizing a competitive process in accordance with the Native American Programs Act of 1974, as amended. ANA provides financial assistance to eligible applicants for the purpose of assisting Native Americans in assuring the survival and continuing vitality of their languages. Grants are provided under the following two categories: Category I-Assessment Grants are used to conduct the assessment needed to identify the current status of the Native American language(s) to be addressed and to establish community long-range language goals; and Category II-Design and/or Implementation Grants are to design and/or implement a preservation language project that will contribute to the achievement of the community's long-range language goal(s). http://www.acf.hhs.gov/grants/open/HHS-2006-ACF-ANA-NL-0016.html[1] From fmarmole at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU Tue Jan 24 03:31:11 2006 From: fmarmole at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (Francisco Marmolejo) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 20:31:11 -0700 Subject: FW: X FORO DE LINGSTICA APLICADA / 10th Symposium of Applied Linguistics Message-ID: Dear colleagues: Please forward to those interested on this event to be held at the University of the Americas, in Puebla, Mexico. Regards, Francisco Marmolejo Executive Director Consortium for North American Higher Education Collaboration (CONAHEC) University of Arizona PO Box 210300 220 W. Sixth Street. Tucson, AZ 85721-0300 USA Tel. (520) 621-9080 / 621-7761 Fax (520) 626-2675 Email: fmarmole at email.arizona.edu http://conahec.org _____ From: Foro de Linguistica Aplicada [mailto:xforo.la at udlap.mx] Sent: Lunes, 23 de Enero de 2006 03:17 p.m. Subject: X FORO DE LING??STICA APLICADA Fellow Colleague, We look forward to your participation in our Symposium. We would appreciate it if you send this information on to others who might be interested. For more information, please visit our website at: http://www.udlap.mx/~lldl_www/congreso/ . Thanks for your interest and for sharing this information! ********************************************************************** UNIVERSIDAD DE LAS AM?RICAS, PUEBLA 10th SYMPOSIUM ON APPLIED LINGUISTICS ?Opening Classroom Doors: Integrating Language Learning Communities? MAY 19 ? 20, 2006 CALL FOR PAPERS +++++++ Estimado Colega, Esperamos su participaci?n en nuestro Foro. Apreciar?amos que compartieran esta informaci?n a otros posibles interesados. Para mayor informaci?n, visite nuestro sitio en: http://www.udlap.mx/~lldl_www/congreso/ . ?Gracias por su inter?s y difusi?n! *********************************************************************** UNIVERSIDAD DE LAS AM?RICAS, PUEBLA X FORO DE LING??STICA APLICADA "Abriendo las puertas del aula: La Integraci?n de las Comunidades de Aprendizaje de Idiomas? 19 y 20 de mayo, 2006 CONVOCATORIA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From susan.penfield at GMAIL.COM Tue Jan 24 16:46:18 2006 From: susan.penfield at GMAIL.COM (Susan Penfield) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 09:46:18 -0700 Subject: Language is Life Conference Message-ID: -- Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. Department of English Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program American Indian Language Development Institute Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU Wed Jan 25 01:11:35 2006 From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 18:11:35 -0700 Subject: THORNTON MEDIA, INC. IS THE ONLY LANGUAGE TOOL COMPANY IN THE WORLD DEVOTED TO NATIVE AMERICAN LANGUAGES. Message-ID: THORNTON MEDIA, INC. ( HTTP://WWW.NDNTV.COM ) IS THE ONLY LANGUAGE TOOL COMPANY IN THE WORLD DEVOTED TO NATIVE AMERICAN LANGUAGES. http://i-newswire.com/pr54795.html (I-Newswire) - Banning, CA, January 25, 2006 -- Several generations of American Indians from the 1930s to the 1970s were sent to U.S. Government boarding schools where they were not allowed to speak their native languages. Native students of that era who spoke their language were severely punished. "My mother was part of that boarding school era where Indian kids were made to be ashamed to be Indian," said Cherokee businessman, Don Thornton. Now Thornton uses U.S. Government technology to revitalize the native languages that were decimated during that era. The revolutionary Phraselator P2, developed by defense contractor Voxtec International in the aftermath of 9/11, is a handheld unit that allows the user to instantly translate spoken English words and phrases into any Native language. "Phraselator holds tens or thousands of phrases, words and songs in one machine. You can hold your entire language in the palm of your hand," said Thornton. Since early 2005, dozens of Native speakers have begun recording their languages onto the hi-tech machines. Many are among the last speakers of their languages. "After I played with it I cried. This will help save our language," said Jane Dumas, a Kumeyaay elder from Southern California. Thornton Media, Inc. is the only language tool company in the world devoted to Native Languages. Recently they announced their move into the international market with the addition of six Canadian Reserves to their tribal client list of 30 tribes. A consortium of Blackfeet Tribes in Alberta purchased 28 Phraselator units for language revitalization. "This is a very interesting tool with tremendous potential. It has the ability to focus on our language and how precise it is," said Keith Weasel Head, from the Kainai Board of Education in Alberta, Canada. In the launching of the product, TMI has provided on-site training to native language teachers and speakers in widespread areas of North America at minimal costs, often barely making a profit due to travel costs. They have traveled mainly to reservations in California, Oklahoma, Montana, North Carolina, Alaska and Canada to record with often the last native speakers of their languages. During their journeys, many heart warming stories were told. "I have been waiting for such a tool all my life. Phraselator is what I need," said Terry Brokie, a Gros Vente language teacher in Montana. "It is a great tool that can give us our whole world in our hand," said Ken Tuffy Helpeson, a Nakota language teacher in Montana. "It's ironic," said Thornton, "that this tool, created by the US Government may help to save the languages that they attempted to wipe out for generations. With Phraselator tribes can now have full control over their languages without the help of outsiders. TMI don't own a database of the recordings of any tribe. The only one I own was recorded by my grandma, Lucinda Robbins, a master speaker of Cherokee." Don Thornton ( Cherokee ), a filmmaker in Southern California founded TMI in 1996 to create positive images of American Indians. Thornton is a former Indian journalist who also worked in social services for many years. He created and ran the cutting-edge American Indian Clubhouse in Los Angeles ( from 1996-99 ), an after-school program for Indian kids in LA, which the National Indian Review referred to as a "bright shining light in urban Indian Country." An interest in neuroscience and brain development led Thornton to adapt hi-tech language products to Native languages. ### For more information, please contact Don & Kara Thornton USA +1 818.406.3555 Thornton Media Inc. - http://www.ndntv.com From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU Wed Jan 25 01:18:26 2006 From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 18:18:26 -0700 Subject: Under The Northern Sky (fwd) Message-ID: Under The Northern Sky A figure of speech By Xavier Kataquapit http://www.firstperspective.ca/story_2006_01_10_sky.php The Cree language was the first form of communication that I learned as a small child. Everyone around me spoke it. It was natural and very comforting for me. Cree was the only language I spoke for the first few years of my life. However, it wasn?t long before I started to become bilingual. Mom understood the importance of a good education. At a young age, she encouraged myself and my younger brothers to learn the English language before we started school. She provided her daily nurturing in the Cree language and taught us some English one word at a time. I started school at about six years of age. I can remember meeting my teacher for the first time and being frightened at being taken into another world. I recall being in the class with my cousins and relations and speaking in our own language. I was confused at first because all the lessons and material were in English. The woman who taught us could not speak Cree and always spoke to us in English. In fact, it felt really intimidating and scary to wander around the hallways or any part of the school where most of the adults that worked there spoke a foreign language. All through my schooling at home, Cree was the way to communicate. Even though I understood and learned the English language, I seldom spoke it and instead I talked to my friends in class in Cree. We always felt separated from our teachers because they could not speak our language. We understood them but they could not always understand us. There was also a sense of intimidation and the possibility of being excluded from friends in the class if anyone spoke English. We were all shy to begin with and when anyone of us spoke in another language we would make fun of each other. So, no one made the effort to speak the English language in a big way. This reality made it difficult for all of us when we graduated from elementary school to high school. Back in the late 80s and early 90s students were still being sent away from Attawapiskat to attend school in places such as Timmins and North Bay. When we started High School, we stuck together because of the common bond of language. It was familiar and comforting for all of us to freely speak Cree. As we were away from home being able to speak in our traditional language made us feel more comfortable in our new world. This didn?t make it any easier on us. Everything we had to do revolved around the use of the English language. I remember myfirst year of school being difficult. I was shy and I had a hard time adjusting to this new reality. We still made fun of one another when someone spoke English but it became more and more necessary to speak a second language in order to be understood and to survive. As a result of all this confusion and fear I did not actively start speaking the English language until I was 14 years of age. A friend once asked an interesting question about my ability to speak two languages. He asked what language I used in my mind when I thought about things. At first I was surprised at the question because I never really thought about it. This was funny because as I thought about the question, I was speaking a mix of both Cree and English. The answer is that sometimes I use Cree and sometimes English. Up north, this use of both traditional Cree and modern English is becoming the norm. Young people use a mix of traditional words and gestures along with North American catch phrases. It is interesting to see this change in the language in a small remote community. Students no longer leave the community to go south to attend high school, yet through the growth of cable and satellite television and modern communication technologies such as the internet, young people are more exposed to the North American pop culture and fashion trends. This exposure has meant that younger people are using their traditional language less. Fortunately, the remoteness of our communities has meant that we are still able to retain our traditional language to a great degree. Cree is the only language I can use when I speak to my grandmother as she lived in a traditional setting most of her life. My parents speak mostly Cree although they are able to communicate fairly well in English. At this point in time most young people are able to fluently speak both languages. Many northern First Nations are similar to Attawapiskat in that they have included education in Cree language as part of the curriculum for young students. These teachers are usually local people so that makes things easier for the children. Although we have relied on our remoteness to ensure we retain our language, things are changing quickly. Cree language studies for our youth will make sure that our language will continue to be passed down through the ages. So that in 20 years from now all the children in Attawapiskat will be able to say Meegwetch, Mee-Nah-N-Che Kah-Wah-Mee-Tee-N Oo-Tah (Thanks, see you here again). -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU Wed Jan 25 23:19:43 2006 From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 16:19:43 -0700 Subject: ILAT Update (was Re: [ILAT] Native Language Preservation and Maintenance (fwd)) In-Reply-To: <001201c62086$186497f0$6501a8c0@LFPMia> Message-ID: Dear ILAT, Hi Mia & everybody.? I am now here on the Nez Perce Reservation, Idaho starting the first stage of my PhD linguistic/language research.? I am glad to be here.? It is cold and snow is on the high mountains, certainly a change from 70+ degrees in Tucson, AZ ;-) I will continue to send news to ILAT.? Though at least for now, it may be sporadic as I get situated here.? I really enjoyed all of your discussions lately.? Please carry on.? Phil Cash Cash ILAT listserv mng Quoting Mia Kalish : > Wow. Phil is Back. How nice. > > Hi, Phil. > > How is Idaho? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] > On Behalf Of phil cash cash > Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 3:31 PM > To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > Subject: [ILAT] Native Language Preservation and Maintenance (fwd) > > Program Office: Administration for Native Americans > Funding Opportunity Title: Native Language Preservation and Maintenance > Announcement Type: Initial > Funding Opportunity Number: HHS-2006-ACF-ANA-NL-0016 > CFDA Number: 93.587 > > DUE DATE FOR APPLICATIONS: 03/08/2006 > > Executive Summary: The Administration for Native Americans (ANA), > within the Administration for Children and Families (ACF), announces > the availability of Fiscal Year (FY) 2006 funds for new community-based > activities under ANA's Native Language program. Financial assistance is > provided utilizing a competitive process in accordance with the Native > American Programs Act of 1974, as amended. ANA provides financial > assistance to eligible applicants for the purpose of assisting Native > Americans in assuring the survival and continuing vitality of their > languages. Grants are provided under the following two categories: > Category I-Assessment Grants are used to conduct the assessment needed > to identify the current status of the Native American language(s) to be > addressed and to establish community long-range language goals; and > Category II-Design and/or Implementation Grants are to design and/or > implement a preservation language project that will contribute to the > achievement of the community's long-range language goal(s). > > http://www.acf.hhs.gov/grants/open/HHS-2006-ACF-ANA-NL-0016.html[1] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU Wed Jan 25 23:26:41 2006 From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 16:26:41 -0700 Subject: Not the Typical Movie Dialogue (fwd link) Message-ID: Not the Typical Movie Dialogue 'THE NEW WORLD,\' An Epic FIlm About Settlers and Indigenous People Resurrects A Language Not Spoken Since 1700s http://www.nynewsday.com/news/health/ny-hspoca254600481jan25,0,4916507,print.story?coll=ny-health-print From MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US Wed Jan 25 23:28:27 2006 From: MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US (Mia Kalish) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 16:28:27 -0700 Subject: ILAT Update (was Re: [ILAT] Native Language Preservation and Maintenance (fwd)) In-Reply-To: <20060125161943.wk44sso4wogcs0ws@www.email.arizona.edu> Message-ID: Hi, Phil, I really think that area is one of the most beautiful in the country. I am especially in love with the Snake River and the trout. I know they have other wonderful fish, but there were lots of trout in the brooks where I grew up, and I really miss them. They say there are trout in the brooks here in New Mexico, but I haven't seen any yet. Will you be living on the Rez? Will you have a computer and internet there? (Will you be able to send or post pictures?) So very nice to hear from you, and know you are doing well. I was there a few years ago, during winter break, so I can imagine exactly what it looks like. :-) Mia _____ From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of phil cash cash Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 4:20 PM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: [ILAT] ILAT Update (was Re: [ILAT] Native Language Preservation and Maintenance (fwd)) Dear ILAT, Hi Mia & everybody. I am now here on the Nez Perce Reservation, Idaho starting the first stage of my PhD linguistic/language research. I am glad to be here. It is cold and snow is on the high mountains, certainly a change from 70+ degrees in Tucson, AZ ;-) I will continue to send news to ILAT. Though at least for now, it may be sporadic as I get situated here. I really enjoyed all of your discussions lately. Please carry on. Phil Cash Cash ILAT listserv mng Quoting Mia Kalish : > Wow. Phil is Back. How nice. > > Hi, Phil. > > How is Idaho? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:http://www.acf.hhs.gov/grants/open/HHS-2006-ACF-ANA-NL-0016.html[1] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jtucker at STARBAND.NET Thu Jan 26 05:58:09 2006 From: jtucker at STARBAND.NET (Jan Tucker) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 00:58:09 -0500 Subject: ILAT Update (was Re: [ILAT] Native Language Preservation and Maintenance (fwd)) Message-ID: Phil, I for one hope you will keep us posted on how you are doing, your progess, you challenges, your joyous experiences, and as Mia asked, PICTURES and let me add maybe some sound bites. We will carry on, though I'm a lurker most of the time. Good to know you'll be on sporatdically. Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: phil cash cash To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 6:19 PM Subject: [ILAT] ILAT Update (was Re: [ILAT] Native Language Preservation and Maintenance (fwd)) Dear ILAT, Hi Mia & everybody. I am now here on the Nez Perce Reservation, Idaho starting the first stage of my PhD linguistic/language research. I am glad to be here. It is cold and snow is on the high mountains, certainly a change from 70+ degrees in Tucson, AZ ;-) I will continue to send news to ILAT. Though at least for now, it may be sporadic as I get situated here. I really enjoyed all of your discussions lately. Please carry on. Phil Cash Cash ILAT listserv mng Quoting Mia Kalish : > Wow. Phil is Back. How nice. > > Hi, Phil. > > How is Idaho? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] > On Behalf Of phil cash cash > Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 3:31 PM > To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > Subject: [ILAT] Native Language Preservation and Maintenance (fwd) > > Program Office: Administration for Native Americans > Funding Opportunity Title: Native Language Preservation and Maintenance > Announcement Type: Initial > Funding Opportunity Number: HHS-2006-ACF-ANA-NL-0016 > CFDA Number: 93.587 > > DUE DATE FOR APPLICATIONS: 03/08/2006 > > Executive Summary: The Administration for Native Americans (ANA), > within the Administration for Children and Families (ACF), announces > the availability of Fiscal Year (FY) 2006 funds for new community-based > activities under ANA's Native Language program. Financial assistance is > provided utilizing a competitive process in accordance with the Native > American Programs Act of 1974, as amended. ANA provides financial > assistance to eligible applicants for the purpose of assisting Native > Americans in assuring the survival and continuing vitality of their > languages. Grants are provided under the following two categories: > Category I-Assessment Grants are used to conduct the assessment needed > to identify the current status of the Native American language(s) to be > addressed and to establish community long-range language goals; and > Category II-Design and/or Implementation Grants are to design and/or > implement a preservation language project that will contribute to the > achievement of the community's long-range language goal(s). > > http://www.acf.hhs.gov/grants/open/HHS-2006-ACF-ANA-NL-0016.html[1] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU Fri Jan 27 19:02:45 2006 From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash) Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 12:02:45 -0700 Subject: ILAT Update (was Re: [ILAT] Native Language Preservation and Maintenance (fwd)) In-Reply-To: <20060125161943.wk44sso4wogcs0ws@www.email.arizona.edu> Message-ID: Dear ILAT, Here is a picture I thought I would share you all. The picture is of the language program building which is a former Indian Agency building now transformed to do the important work of revitalizing the Nez Perce language. I have been given office space here. Nez Perce elders are here quite regularly. With permission, I will try and give a brief summary later on of their program and post it to the list. I will be doing mostly language documentation work here for my PhD research. Later, Phil Cash Cash UofA, ILAT listserv mng -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: np_langprogram.gif Type: image/gif Size: 171206 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU Fri Jan 27 19:24:34 2006 From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash) Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 12:24:34 -0700 Subject: Central Oregon "SQUAW" Name Changes Approved (fwd) Message-ID: CENTRAL OREGON ?SQUAW? NAME CHANGES APPROVED Bend.com news sources Posted: Friday, January 27, 2006 7:05 AM http://bend.com/news/ar_view.php?ar_id=24206 SISTERS?The U.S. Board on Geographic Names has given final approval to 16 name changes and one new name for Central Oregon landscape features that use the word ?Squaw?. The changes remove the derogatory word as a place name and resulted from several years of consultation with the Confederated Tribes of Warm Springs and the Oregon Geographic Names Board. The new names now apply to five creeks, four buttes, four canyons, two meadows and two waterfalls in Central Oregon. Many Native Americans consider the word ?Squaw? to be a derogatory term. In 2001, Oregon became the sixth state to ban the term from public place names under Senate Bill 488. Forest Service regulations also prohibit derogatory names from being used in documents or on maps. Deschutes and Ochoco National Forest officials proposed the changes to comply with the state law and federal directives. The U.S. Board on Geographic Names made final judgment on the proposed name changes, after the Oregon Geographic Names Board?s initial review and approval of the proposal in October 2005. The state board supervises the naming of all geographic features within Oregon. However, final approval is required by the U.S. Board on Geographic Names before the changes are final. ?This is the largest group of name changes that have ever been approved at one time in the state of Oregon,? said Champ Vaughan, Oregon Geographic Names Board president. Locally, the most well-known feature is Squaw Creek which runs through Sisters and Madras. The stream is a federally-designated Wild and Scenic River that flows from glaciers on the Three Sisters Mountains. Its new name is ?Whychus Creek? (pronounced ?Why-choose?), a historic name derived from the Sahaptin Indian language. Explorers recorded the name in 1855, during a search for a new railroad route through the Cascades to the Pacific Ocean. From jtucker at STARBAND.NET Fri Jan 27 20:01:18 2006 From: jtucker at STARBAND.NET (Jan Tucker) Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 15:01:18 -0500 Subject: Affordable digital recorder advise. Message-ID: List members, Excuse me if this topic has already come up. After reading about Thornton Media's devise and looking at it's price tag, I realized that most educators like myself might no be able to afford it and wondered what experienced preservationists are using to record and digitize language in a field setting. Thank you in advance for any advise, Jan "THORNTON MEDIA, INC. ( HTTP://WWW.NDNTV.COM ) IS THE ONLY LANGUAGE TOOL COMPANY IN THE WORLD DEVOTED TO NATIVE AMERICAN LANGUAGES. http://i-newswire.com/pr54795.html" From MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US Mon Jan 30 14:36:12 2006 From: MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US (Mia Kalish) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 07:36:12 -0700 Subject: Affordable digital recorder advise. In-Reply-To: <022601c6237c$79bbde70$3dd23f94@LOCALSERVER> Message-ID: Jan & all, I have been using Olympus digital recorders for years now. They have 3 quality settings (low, medium, & high) and 2 recording modes (one for meetings, one for one-to-one). The ones I buy are about $99. I recently got a Sony refurb unit for $32 at e-cost.com. I didn't read the thread about recorders, because I'm really happy with mine, and I had shared about it before. Mia -----Original Message----- From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Jan Tucker Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 1:01 PM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: [ILAT] Affordable digital recorder advise. List members, Excuse me if this topic has already come up. After reading about Thornton Media's devise and looking at it's price tag, I realized that most educators like myself might no be able to afford it and wondered what experienced preservationists are using to record and digitize language in a field setting. Thank you in advance for any advise, Jan "THORNTON MEDIA, INC. ( HTTP://WWW.NDNTV.COM ) IS THE ONLY LANGUAGE TOOL COMPANY IN THE WORLD DEVOTED TO NATIVE AMERICAN LANGUAGES. http://i-newswire.com/pr54795.html" From MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US Mon Jan 30 15:09:51 2006 From: MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US (Mia Kalish) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 08:09:51 -0700 Subject: ILAT Update (was Re: [ILAT] Native Language Preservation and Maintenance (fwd)) In-Reply-To: <20060127120245.pvplwwkkoccc00sg@www.email.arizona.edu> Message-ID: Thanks, I enjoyed this a lot. The Idaho colors are as I remember them {always nice}. Glad you are being treated well :-) and are in comfortable contact with the Elders :-). Mia _____ From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of phil cash cash Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 12:03 PM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [ILAT] ILAT Update (was Re: [ILAT] Native Language Preservation and Maintenance (fwd)) Dear ILAT, Here is a picture I thought I would share you all. The picture is of the language program building which is a former Indian Agency building now transformed to do the important work of revitalizing the Nez Perce language. I have been given office space here. Nez Perce elders are here quite regularly. With permission, I will try and give a brief summary later on of their program and post it to the list. I will be doing mostly language documentation work here for my PhD research. Later, Phil Cash Cash UofA, ILAT listserv mng -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thien at UNIMELB.EDU.AU Mon Jan 30 19:01:06 2006 From: thien at UNIMELB.EDU.AU (Nicholas Thieberger) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 06:01:06 +1100 Subject: Affordable digital recorder advice In-Reply-To: <005401c625aa$86b69ae0$6401a8c0@LFPMia> Message-ID: Just to add to this thread from an archival perspective. If you are recording unique things that you want to be available to generations to come then you need to think about the format of what you are recording and whether it will endure. Olympus and other small (and cheap, unfortunately) recorders do not record in archival formats. For a summary of the issues around longterm storage of recorded material and endangered languages you could look at http://emeld.org/school/index.html. There was a discussion of recorders on the RNLD list and if you go to the archive of the RNLD list, here: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?S1=resource-network-linguistic-diversity and search for 'flash' and 'recorder' you will get some useful info A summary item is here: http://linguistlist.org/issues/16/16-2710.html All the best, Nick Thieberger At 7:36 AM -0700 30/1/06, Mia Kalish wrote: >Jan & all, > >I have been using Olympus digital recorders for years now. They have 3 >quality settings (low, medium, & high) and 2 recording modes (one for >meetings, one for one-to-one). The ones I buy are about $99. I recently got >a Sony refurb unit for $32 at e-cost.com. > >I didn't read the thread about recorders, because I'm really happy with >mine, and I had shared about it before. > >Mia -- Project Manager PARADISEC Department of Linguistics and Applied Linguistics University of Melbourne, Vic 3010 Australia nicholas.thieberger at paradisec.org.au Ph 61 (0)3 8344 5185 PARADISEC Pacific And Regional Archive for Digital Sources in Endangered Cultures http://paradisec.org.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrekar at NCIDC.ORG Mon Jan 30 19:08:08 2006 From: andrekar at NCIDC.ORG (Andre Cramblit) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 11:08:08 -0800 Subject: Invitation To naive Language website In-Reply-To: <20060130144525.96003.qmail@web31810.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Will keep ya in the loop On Jan 30, 2006, at 6:45 AM, Matthew McDaniel wrote: Andre: I get your fantastic emails, great to see such energy. I have set up www.endangeredlanguages.org Any links you may send me, if there are a lot ( I could imagine) you can put them in the categories that you want. I will post them there. It isn't a fancy site, but fairly flexible, forums etc. I really want it to be as useable as possible and where a lot of this information can be posted. akhalife at gmail.com is the best notification email for me. Matthew McDaniel www.akha.org The Akha Heritage Foundation. http://www.akha.org Akha Heritage Site. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Akhaweeklyjournal Discussion http://groups.yahoo.com/group/akha Donate Via Credit Card Paypal: https://www.paypal.com/xclick/business=akha%40akha.org PO Box 6073 Salem, OR. 97304 USA. Yahoo! Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, & more on new and used cars. .:. Andr? Cramblit: andre.p.cramblit.86 at alum.dartmouth.org is the Operations Director Northern California Indian Development Council NCIDC (http://www.ncidc.org) is a non-profit that meets the development needs of American Indians To subscribe to a news letter of interest to Natives send an email to: IndigenousNewsNetwork-subscribe at topica.com or go to: http:// www.topica.com/lists/IndigenousNewsNetwork/subscribe/?location=listinfo -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From coyotez at UOREGON.EDU Mon Jan 30 19:17:12 2006 From: coyotez at UOREGON.EDU (David Lewis) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 11:17:12 -0800 Subject: Affordable digital recorder advice In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Nicholas, I checked out the first website mentioned and they wrote this as to an archival quality format "For audio, use WAV format." Coincidentally, I was at Best Buy last night and looked over their selection and chose the lower end of the higher end devices, the WS-100. It is supposed to transfer directly into Microsoft WMA format to the computer. I'm pretty sure I can then convert it to WAV format either with Windows Media player or ITunes. Any advice here? the device cost $100. the next higher device was $149.00. David Lewis Nicholas Thieberger wrote: > --> > Just to add to this thread from an archival perspective. If you are > recording unique things that you want to be available to generations > to come then you need to think about the format of what you are > recording and whether it will endure. Olympus and other small (and > cheap, unfortunately) recorders do not record in archival formats. > > For a summary of the issues around longterm storage of recorded > material and endangered languages you could look at > http://emeld.org/school/index.html. > > There was a discussion of recorders on the RNLD list and if you go to > the archive of the RNLD list, here: > http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?S1=resource-network-linguistic-diversity > and search for 'flash' and 'recorder' you will get some useful info > > A summary item is here: http://linguistlist.org/issues/16/16-2710.html > > All the best, > > Nick Thieberger > > At 7:36 AM -0700 30/1/06, Mia Kalish wrote: > >> Jan & all, >> >> I have been using Olympus digital recorders for years now. They have 3 >> quality settings (low, medium, & high) and 2 recording modes (one for >> meetings, one for one-to-one). The ones I buy are about $99. I >> recently got >> a Sony refurb unit for $32 at e-cost.com. >> >> I didn't read the thread about recorders, because I'm really happy with >> mine, and I had shared about it before. > >> Mia > > >-- > > > Project Manager > PARADISEC > Department of Linguistics and Applied Linguistics > University of Melbourne, Vic 3010 > Australia > > nicholas.thieberger at paradisec.org.au > Ph 61 (0)3 8344 5185 > > PARADISEC > Pacific And Regional Archive for Digital Sources in Endangered Cultures > http://paradisec.org.au > From thien at UNIMELB.EDU.AU Mon Jan 30 19:30:15 2006 From: thien at UNIMELB.EDU.AU (Nicholas Thieberger) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 06:30:15 +1100 Subject: Affordable digital recorder advice In-Reply-To: <43DE6638.3030507@uoregon.edu> Message-ID: David, If it does not record in WAV format then it is not archival. |If it records in a compressed form like WMA, mp3, or others, and then converts to WAV it means the actual recording has already lost lots of the signal. The m-audio microtrack records to WAV and is around US$300 and is not too bad, it has some problem with preamps. Nick At 11:17 AM -0800 30/1/06, David Lewis wrote: >Hi Nicholas, >I checked out the first website mentioned and they wrote this as to >an archival quality format "For audio, use WAV > format." >Coincidentally, I was at Best Buy last night and looked over their >selection and chose the lower end of the higher end devices, the >WS-100. It is supposed to transfer directly into Microsoft WMA >format to the computer. I'm pretty sure I can then convert it to WAV >format either with Windows Media player or ITunes. Any advice here? >the device cost $100. the next higher device was $149.00. >David Lewis > >Nicholas Thieberger wrote: > >>--> >>Just to add to this thread from an archival perspective. If you are >>recording unique things that you want to be available to >>generations to come then you need to think about the format of what >>you are recording and whether it will endure. Olympus and other >>small (and cheap, unfortunately) recorders do not record in >>archival formats. >> >>For a summary of the issues around longterm storage of recorded >>material and endangered languages you could look at >>http://emeld.org/school/index.html. >> >>There was a discussion of recorders on the RNLD list and if you go >>to the archive of the RNLD list, here: >>http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?S1=resource-network-linguistic-diversity >>and search for 'flash' and 'recorder' you will get some useful info >> >>A summary item is here: http://linguistlist.org/issues/16/16-2710.html >> >>All the best, >> >>Nick Thieberger >> >>At 7:36 AM -0700 30/1/06, Mia Kalish wrote: >> >>>Jan & all, >>> >>>I have been using Olympus digital recorders for years now. They have 3 >>>quality settings (low, medium, & high) and 2 recording modes (one for >>>meetings, one for one-to-one). The ones I buy are about $99. I recently got >>>a Sony refurb unit for $32 at e-cost.com. >>> >>>I didn't read the thread about recorders, because I'm really happy with >>>mine, and I had shared about it before. >> >>>Mia >> >> >>-- >> >>Project Manager >>PARADISEC >>Department of Linguistics and Applied Linguistics >>University of Melbourne, Vic 3010 >>Australia >> >>nicholas.thieberger at paradisec.org.au >>Ph 61 (0)3 8344 5185 >> >>PARADISEC >>Pacific And Regional Archive for Digital Sources in Endangered Cultures >>http://paradisec.org.au -- Project Manager PARADISEC Department of Linguistics and Applied Linguistics University of Melbourne, Vic 3010 Australia nicholas.thieberger at paradisec.org.au Ph 61 (0)3 8344 5185 PARADISEC Pacific And Regional Archive for Digital Sources in Endangered Cultures http://paradisec.org.au From MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US Mon Jan 30 20:18:40 2006 From: MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US (Mia Kalish) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 13:18:40 -0700 Subject: Affordable digital recorder advice In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I think there are a few steps missing here. First, and maybe this was discussed in the original thread, the sampling rate is more critical than the format. High sampling rates record more data and take up more space. Thus you can record less before you have to move the recordings to a more dense medium. Low sampling rates record less data, and take up less space. The recorder direction is also important, with unidirectional being more forgiving for voice recordings than omnidirectional. A good omnidirectional mike will pick up the elks outside in the field across the road (guess how I know). Then, if you want archival storage, you need archival media. Because I move my stuff around, from computer locations to website, I don't worry about storing my stuff in an archive where only a few people will have access. Because I move digitally, I don't have to worry about data loss due to multiple analog copies. The error correction is good enough so that there is no effective loss. Has there been any discussion about the frequency of the human voice (I assume because Jan wrote the message we are talking voice & language recording, not music)? Human speech ranges from a low of about 100 HZ to a high of about 5000 Hz, with the most commonly cited range being 300-3000 Hz. This isn't to say that sopranos can't make higher frequency sounds, nor bass voices lower frequency sounds, it just means that most people speak in that range, and so a recorder that is optimized for that range will be better for voice recording, especially Elders speaking . . . which I assume is what we are talking about here. I also haven't seen any discussion about sound editing. I always edit my recordings; usually there is more dead space than makes the response nice for people, sometimes not enough, so I add or subtract so the response feels nice. Sometimes I have volume issues; some people record too loudly, in which case I have usually lost the top end because of clipping, and sometimes it is too soft, and I can correct by digitally enhancing. Finally, I haven't heard any digital recording that has the warmth of analog recording, but small digital recorders are easy to carry around, and we found them to be unobtrusive when working with people. People tend to forget they are there (the little recorders) and so they are less stressed, and when they relax is what is now a comfortable situation, there is less stress and strain, and more richness in their speaking voices. I think this takes us to FinallyPartB: If your goal is merely to record the spoken word and stash it somewhere, then probably you don't care much about whether the speaker is stressed or not, because your goal is just to get THE WORD. On the other hand, if your goal is to use the recordings for language revitalization, like I do, and like Jan is working towards, then you care a great deal about richness, inflection, rhythm, and comfort. Mia _____ From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Nicholas Thieberger Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 12:01 PM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [ILAT] Affordable digital recorder advice Just to add to this thread from an archival perspective. If you are recording unique things that you want to be available to generations to come then you need to think about the format of what you are recording and whether it will endure. Olympus and other small (and cheap, unfortunately) recorders do not record in archival formats. For a summary of the issues around longterm storage of recorded material and endangered languages you could look at http://emeld.org/school/index.html. There was a discussion of recorders on the RNLD list and if you go to the archive of the RNLD list, here: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?S1=resource-network-linguistic-d iversity and search for 'flash' and 'recorder' you will get some useful info A summary item is here: http://linguistlist.org/issues/16/16-2710.html All the best, Nick Thieberger At 7:36 AM -0700 30/1/06, Mia Kalish wrote: Jan & all, I have been using Olympus digital recorders for years now. They have 3 quality settings (low, medium, & high) and 2 recording modes (one for meetings, one for one-to-one). The ones I buy are about $99. I recently got a Sony refurb unit for $32 at e-cost.com. I didn't read the thread about recorders, because I'm really happy with mine, and I had shared about it before. Mia -- Project Manager PARADISEC Department of Linguistics and Applied Linguistics University of Melbourne, Vic 3010 Australia nicholas.thieberger at paradisec.org.au Ph 61 (0)3 8344 5185 PARADISEC Pacific And Regional Archive for Digital Sources in Endangered Cultures http://paradisec.org.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jtucker at STARBAND.NET Tue Jan 31 03:26:42 2006 From: jtucker at STARBAND.NET (Jan Tucker) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 22:26:42 -0500 Subject: Affordable digital recorder advise. Message-ID: Mia, thanks for the tips, and the e-cost.com will be something I want to check out. Working really hard, but hope to talk more to you soon. Six online courses in progress, two just started. I've learned to make quizzes with moodle courseware while my laptop is in the shop and I don't have access to hotpotatoe program. Email me off list, let me know how your classe is going. Jan Tucker ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mia Kalish" To: Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 9:36 AM Subject: Re: [ILAT] Affordable digital recorder advise. > Jan & all, > > I have been using Olympus digital recorders for years now. They have 3 > quality settings (low, medium, & high) and 2 recording modes (one for > meetings, one for one-to-one). The ones I buy are about $99. I recently > got > a Sony refurb unit for $32 at e-cost.com. > > I didn't read the thread about recorders, because I'm really happy with > mine, and I had shared about it before. > > Mia > > -----Original Message----- > From: Indigenous Languages and Technology > [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] > On Behalf Of Jan Tucker > Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 1:01 PM > To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > Subject: [ILAT] Affordable digital recorder advise. > > List members, > > Excuse me if this topic has already come up. After reading about Thornton > Media's devise and looking at it's price tag, I realized that most > educators > > like myself might no be able to afford it and wondered what experienced > preservationists are using to record and digitize language in a field > setting. > > Thank you in advance for any advise, > > Jan > > "THORNTON MEDIA, INC. ( HTTP://WWW.NDNTV.COM ) IS THE ONLY LANGUAGE TOOL > COMPANY IN THE WORLD DEVOTED TO NATIVE AMERICAN LANGUAGES. > http://i-newswire.com/pr54795.html" > From jtucker at STARBAND.NET Tue Jan 31 14:44:22 2006 From: jtucker at STARBAND.NET (Jan Tucker) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 09:44:22 -0500 Subject: Affordable digital recorder advice Message-ID: Thank you all for the information you provided about affordable digital recorders. I'm looking at this one right now. Yes, I'm using it for language revitalization, and would like the best possible quality and least degredation. I have about 100 to spend on the devise and the accessories such as a microphone. Olympus VN-960PC Digital Voice Recorder, with LCD Display - Built-in 128MB Flash Memory and PC Link Any further comments would be welcome. Here is a link with specifications. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=389757&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation#Recording In recording format they say ADPCM (Adaptive Differential Pulse code Modulation)(WAV on PC). Can I assume then this is a .wav format recorder? Thank you, Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicholas Thieberger" To: Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 2:30 PM Subject: Re: [ILAT] Affordable digital recorder advice > David, > > If it does not record in WAV format then it is not archival. |If it > records in a compressed form like WMA, mp3, or others, and then > converts to WAV it means the actual recording has already lost lots > of the signal. The m-audio microtrack records to WAV and is around > US$300 and is not too bad, it has some problem with preamps. > > Nick > > At 11:17 AM -0800 30/1/06, David Lewis wrote: >>Hi Nicholas, >>I checked out the first website mentioned and they wrote this as to >>an archival quality format "For audio, use WAV >> format." >>Coincidentally, I was at Best Buy last night and looked over their >>selection and chose the lower end of the higher end devices, the >>WS-100. It is supposed to transfer directly into Microsoft WMA >>format to the computer. I'm pretty sure I can then convert it to WAV >>format either with Windows Media player or ITunes. Any advice here? >>the device cost $100. the next higher device was $149.00. >>David Lewis >> >>Nicholas Thieberger wrote: >> >>>--> >>>Just to add to this thread from an archival perspective. If you are >>>recording unique things that you want to be available to >>>generations to come then you need to think about the format of what >>>you are recording and whether it will endure. Olympus and other >>>small (and cheap, unfortunately) recorders do not record in >>>archival formats. >>> >>>For a summary of the issues around longterm storage of recorded >>>material and endangered languages you could look at >>>http://emeld.org/school/index.html. >>> >>>There was a discussion of recorders on the RNLD list and if you go >>>to the archive of the RNLD list, here: >>>http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?S1=resource-network-linguistic-diversity >>>and search for 'flash' and 'recorder' you will get some useful info >>> >>>A summary item is here: http://linguistlist.org/issues/16/16-2710.html >>> >>>All the best, >>> >>>Nick Thieberger >>> >>>At 7:36 AM -0700 30/1/06, Mia Kalish wrote: >>> >>>>Jan & all, >>>> >>>>I have been using Olympus digital recorders for years now. They have 3 >>>>quality settings (low, medium, & high) and 2 recording modes (one for >>>>meetings, one for one-to-one). The ones I buy are about $99. I recently got >>>>a Sony refurb unit for $32 at e-cost.com. >>>> >>>>I didn't read the thread about recorders, because I'm really happy with >>>>mine, and I had shared about it before. >>> >>>>Mia >>> >>> >>>-- >>> >>>Project Manager >>>PARADISEC >>>Department of Linguistics and Applied Linguistics >>>University of Melbourne, Vic 3010 >>>Australia >>> >>>nicholas.thieberger at paradisec.org.au >>>Ph 61 (0)3 8344 5185 >>> >>>PARADISEC >>>Pacific And Regional Archive for Digital Sources in Endangered Cultures >>>http://paradisec.org.au > > > -- > Project Manager > PARADISEC > Department of Linguistics and Applied Linguistics > University of Melbourne, Vic 3010 > Australia > > nicholas.thieberger at paradisec.org.au > Ph 61 (0)3 8344 5185 > > PARADISEC > Pacific And Regional Archive for Digital Sources in Endangered Cultures > http://paradisec.org.au > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US Tue Jan 31 14:58:23 2006 From: MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US (Mia Kalish) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 07:58:23 -0700 Subject: Affordable digital recorder advice In-Reply-To: <01c301c62674$d7a0a890$3dd23f94@LOCALSERVER> Message-ID: I have this particular one. I have 2 Olympus models, actually. They work well because you can configure them to download automatically when you connect them. I don't like the fact that the default folders are buried in the Programs directory, but after a while, you get used to it. All the files come in in .wav format. If you are recording individuals, make sure you are not set to Meeting mode. As for ADPCM, you might find this link helpful: http://telecom.tbi.net/digadpcm.htm It is delightfully technical, with pictures. You will also find lots of material if you search for the expansion. These algorigthms are important because you are ALWAYS converting Analog to Digital when you are dealing with streaming events like voice. Mia _____ From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Jan Tucker Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 7:44 AM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [ILAT] Affordable digital recorder advice Thank you all for the information you provided about affordable digital recorders. I'm looking at this one right now. Yes, I'm using it for language revitalization, and would like the best possible quality and least degredation. I have about 100 to spend on the devise and the accessories such as a microphone. Olympus VN-960PC Digital Voice Recorder, with LCD Display - Built-in 128MB Flash Memory and PC Link Any further comments would be welcome. Here is a link with specifications. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&s ku=389757&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation#Recording In recording format they say ADPCM (Adaptive Differential Pulse code Modulation)(WAV on PC). Can I assume then this is a .wav format recorder? Thank you, Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicholas Thieberger" < thien at UNIMELB.EDU.AU> To: < ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU> Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 2:30 PM Subject: Re: [ILAT] Affordable digital recorder advice > David, > > If it does not record in WAV format then it is not archival. |If it > records in a compressed form like WMA, mp3, or others, and then > converts to WAV it means the actual recording has already lost lots > of the signal. The m-audio microtrack records to WAV and is around > US$300 and is not too bad, it has some problem with preamps. > > Nick > > At 11:17 AM -0800 30/1/06, David Lewis wrote: >>Hi Nicholas, >>I checked out the first website mentioned and they wrote this as to >>an archival quality format "For audio, use WAV >>< http://emeld.org/school/glossary.html#wav> format." >>Coincidentally, I was at Best Buy last night and looked over their >>selection and chose the lower end of the higher end devices, the >>WS-100. It is supposed to transfer directly into Microsoft WMA >>format to the computer. I'm pretty sure I can then convert it to WAV >>format either with Windows Media player or ITunes. Any advice here? >>the device cost $100. the next higher device was $149.00. >>David Lewis >> >>Nicholas Thieberger wrote: >> >>>--> >>>Just to add to this thread from an archival perspective. If you are >>>recording unique things that you want to be available to >>>generations to come then you need to think about the format of what >>>you are recording and whether it will endure. Olympus and other >>>small (and cheap, unfortunately) recorders do not record in >>>archival formats. >>> >>>For a summary of the issues around longterm storage of recorded >>>material and endangered languages you could look at >>>http://emeld.org/school/index.html. >>> >>>There was a discussion of recorders on the RNLD list and if you go >>>to the archive of the RNLD list, here: >>>http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?S1=resource-network-linguisti c-diversity >>>and search for 'flash' and 'recorder' you will get some useful info >>> >>>A summary item is here: http://linguistlist.org/issues/16/16-2710.html >>> >>>All the best, >>> >>>Nick Thieberger >>> >>>At 7:36 AM -0700 30/1/06, Mia Kalish wrote: >>> >>>>Jan & all, >>>> >>>>I have been using Olympus digital recorders for years now. They have 3 >>>>quality settings (low, medium, & high) and 2 recording modes (one for >>>>meetings, one for one-to-one). The ones I buy are about $99. I recently got >>>>a Sony refurb unit for $32 at e-cost.com. >>>> >>>>I didn't read the thread about recorders, because I'm really happy with >>>>mine, and I had shared about it before. >>> >>>>Mia >>> >>> >>>-- >>> >>>Project Manager >>>PARADISEC >>>Department of Linguistics and Applied Linguistics >>>University of Melbourne, Vic 3010 >>>Australia >>> >>>nicholas.thieberger at paradisec.org.au >>>Ph 61 (0)3 8344 5185 >>> >>>PARADISEC >>>Pacific And Regional Archive for Digital Sources in Endangered Cultures >>>http://paradisec.org.au > > > -- > Project Manager > PARADISEC > Department of Linguistics and Applied Linguistics > University of Melbourne, Vic 3010 > Australia > > nicholas.thieberger at paradisec.org.au > Ph 61 (0)3 8344 5185 > > PARADISEC > Pacific And Regional Archive for Digital Sources in Endangered Cultures > http://paradisec.org.au > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From susan.penfield at GMAIL.COM Tue Jan 31 14:58:32 2006 From: susan.penfield at GMAIL.COM (Susan Penfield) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 07:58:32 -0700 Subject: Affordable digital recorder advice In-Reply-To: <01c301c62674$d7a0a890$3dd23f94@LOCALSERVER> Message-ID: Mia, Jan and all, Just a thought here -- It seems to me that we might not want to distinguish between the uses for revitalization and documentation. Good quality is needed on both fronts since they really play into each other. I think that ease of use is important (for some of us less techie folks), and certainly cost is an issue for many, but getting good archival quality doesn't necessarily mean giving up all the other things Mia referred and,increasingly, those of us who do revitalization work need to be mindful that many of those recordings may end up as the only documentation of the language. Best, Susan On 1/31/06, Jan Tucker wrote: > > Thank you all for the information you provided about affordable digital > recorders. I'm looking at this one right now. > Yes, I'm using it for language revitalization, and would like the best > possible quality and least degredation. I have about 100 to spend on the > devise and the accessories such as a microphone. > > Olympus VN-960PC Digital Voice Recorder, with LCD Display - Built-in > 128MB Flash Memory and PC Link Any further comments would be welcome. > Here is a link with specifications. > > > http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=389757&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation#Recording > > In recording format they say ADPCM (Adaptive Differential Pulse code > Modulation)(WAV on PC). Can I assume then this is a .wav format recorder? > Thank you, > > Jan > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicholas Thieberger" < > thien at UNIMELB.EDU.AU> > To: > Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 2:30 PM > Subject: Re: [ILAT] Affordable digital recorder advice > > > David, > > > > If it does not record in WAV format then it is not archival. |If it > > records in a compressed form like WMA, mp3, or others, and then > > converts to WAV it means the actual recording has already lost lots > > of the signal. The m-audio microtrack records to WAV and is around > > US$300 and is not too bad, it has some problem with preamps. > > > > Nick > > > > At 11:17 AM -0800 30/1/06, David Lewis wrote: > >>Hi Nicholas, > >>I checked out the first website mentioned and they wrote this as to > >>an archival quality format "For audio, use WAV > >> format." > >>Coincidentally, I was at Best Buy last night and looked over their > >>selection and chose the lower end of the higher end devices, the > >>WS-100. It is supposed to transfer directly into Microsoft WMA > >>format to the computer. I'm pretty sure I can then convert it to WAV > >>format either with Windows Media player or ITunes. Any advice here? > >>the device cost $100. the next higher device was $149.00. > >>David Lewis > >> > >>Nicholas Thieberger wrote: > >> > >>>--> > >>>Just to add to this thread from an archival perspective. If you are > >>>recording unique things that you want to be available to > >>>generations to come then you need to think about the format of what > >>>you are recording and whether it will endure. Olympus and other > >>>small (and cheap, unfortunately) recorders do not record in > >>>archival formats. > >>> > >>>For a summary of the issues around longterm storage of recorded > >>>material and endangered languages you could look at > >>>http://emeld.org/school/index.html. > >>> > >>>There was a discussion of recorders on the RNLD list and if you go > >>>to the archive of the RNLD list, here: > >>> > http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?S1=resource-network-linguistic-diversity > >>>and search for 'flash' and 'recorder' you will get some useful info > >>> > >>>A summary item is here: http://linguistlist.org/issues/16/16-2710.html > >>> > >>>All the best, > >>> > >>>Nick Thieberger > >>> > >>>At 7:36 AM -0700 30/1/06, Mia Kalish wrote: > >>> > >>>>Jan & all, > >>>> > >>>>I have been using Olympus digital recorders for years now. They have 3 > >>>>quality settings (low, medium, & high) and 2 recording modes (one for > >>>>meetings, one for one-to-one). The ones I buy are about $99. I > recently got > >>>>a Sony refurb unit for $32 at e-cost.com. > >>>> > >>>>I didn't read the thread about recorders, because I'm really happy > with > >>>>mine, and I had shared about it before. > >>> > >>>>Mia > >>> > >>> > >>>-- > >>> > >>>Project Manager > >>>PARADISEC > >>>Department of Linguistics and Applied Linguistics > >>>University of Melbourne, Vic 3010 > >>>Australia > >>> > >>>nicholas.thieberger at paradisec.org.au > >>>Ph 61 (0)3 8344 5185 > >>> > >>>PARADISEC > >>>Pacific And Regional Archive for Digital Sources in Endangered Cultures > >>>http://paradisec.org.au > > > > > > -- > > Project Manager > > PARADISEC > > Department of Linguistics and Applied Linguistics > > University of Melbourne, Vic 3010 > > Australia > > > > nicholas.thieberger at paradisec.org.au > > Ph 61 (0)3 8344 5185 > > > > PARADISEC > > Pacific And Regional Archive for Digital Sources in Endangered Cultures > > http://paradisec.org.au > > > -- Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. Department of English Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program American Indian Language Development Institute Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US Tue Jan 31 16:18:17 2006 From: MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US (Mia Kalish) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 09:18:17 -0700 Subject: Affordable digital recorder advice In-Reply-To: <39a679e20601310658y152bc3f8g4d3f109e610b8e0b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi, Susan, I didn't read the whole main thread, but I thought I was perceiving a recommendation for "recording studio quality" for archival recording. Bringing people into a sound controlled studio is very different from working in communities where we create tons and tons of material for use by the community. When we were doing this initially 4-5 years ago now, Depree and I created a whole checklist of things we wanted to be able to do, with a focus of working in the community. For us, the considerations ranked approximately as follows: 1. Elder comfort 2. Affordable by community members 3. High quality recording 4. Convenience 5. High portability 6. Battery-powered 7. Ease of use, for us & for community members Our goal was to work with communities to show them how they could take a major hand in designing and developing their own resources. As such, many of our considerations incorporated the needs of the Community in our assessment of recorders. Sophisticated, expensive recorders wouldn't be appropriate; special recording rooms and devices would take us out of the community and would also be difficult to use in places where people live. We didn't want to use our hosts' electricity; for some people, this is a financial hardship, even for small requirements. We were also prepared for places where there is no electricity; or where the travel to and from the locale is challenging, as for example, the path down the Grand Canyon to the Havapai. So we included all these considerations in our analysis. Mia _____ From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Susan Penfield Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 7:59 AM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [ILAT] Affordable digital recorder advice Mia, Jan and all, Just a thought here -- It seems to me that we might not want to distinguish between the uses for revitalization and documentation. Good quality is needed on both fronts since they really play into each other. I think that ease of use is important (for some of us less techie folks), and certainly cost is an issue for many, but getting good archival quality doesn't necessarily mean giving up all the other things Mia referred and,increasingly, those of us who do revitalization work need to be mindful that many of those recordings may end up as the only documentation of the language. Best, Susan On 1/31/06, Jan Tucker wrote: Thank you all for the information you provided about affordable digital recorders. I'm looking at this one right now. Yes, I'm using it for language revitalization, and would like the best possible quality and least degredation. I have about 100 to spend on the devise and the accessories such as a microphone. Olympus VN-960PC Digital Voice Recorder, with LCD Display - Built-in 128MB Flash Memory and PC Link Any further comments would be welcome. Here is a link with specifications. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&s ku=389757&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation#Recording In recording format they say ADPCM (Adaptive Differential Pulse code Modulation)(WAV on PC). Can I assume then this is a .wav format recorder? Thank you, Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicholas Thieberger" < thien at UNIMELB.EDU.AU > To: < ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 2:30 PM Subject: Re: [ILAT] Affordable digital recorder advice > David, > > If it does not record in WAV format then it is not archival. |If it > records in a compressed form like WMA, mp3, or others, and then > converts to WAV it means the actual recording has already lost lots > of the signal. The m-audio microtrack records to WAV and is around > US$300 and is not too bad, it has some problem with preamps. > > Nick > > At 11:17 AM -0800 30/1/06, David Lewis wrote: >>Hi Nicholas, >>I checked out the first website mentioned and they wrote this as to >>an archival quality format "For audio, use WAV >>< http://emeld.org/school/glossary.html#wav > format." >>Coincidentally, I was at Best Buy last night and looked over their >>selection and chose the lower end of the higher end devices, the >>WS-100. It is supposed to transfer directly into Microsoft WMA >>format to the computer. I'm pretty sure I can then convert it to WAV >>format either with Windows Media player or ITunes. Any advice here? >>the device cost $100. the next higher device was $149.00. >>David Lewis >> >>Nicholas Thieberger wrote: >> >>>--> >>>Just to add to this thread from an archival perspective. If you are >>>recording unique things that you want to be available to >>>generations to come then you need to think about the format of what >>>you are recording and whether it will endure. Olympus and other >>>small (and cheap, unfortunately) recorders do not record in >>>archival formats. >>> >>>For a summary of the issues around longterm storage of recorded >>>material and endangered languages you could look at >>>http://emeld.org/school/index.html. >>> >>>There was a discussion of recorders on the RNLD list and if you go >>>to the archive of the RNLD list, here: >>>http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?S1=resource-network-linguisti c-diversity >>>and search for 'flash' and 'recorder' you will get some useful info >>> >>>A summary item is here: http://linguistlist.org/issues/16/16-2710.html >>> >>>All the best, >>> >>>Nick Thieberger >>> >>>At 7:36 AM -0700 30/1/06, Mia Kalish wrote: >>> >>>>Jan & all, >>>> >>>>I have been using Olympus digital recorders for years now. They have 3 >>>>quality settings (low, medium, & high) and 2 recording modes (one for >>>>meetings, one for one-to-one). The ones I buy are about $99. I recently got >>>>a Sony refurb unit for $32 at e-cost.com. >>>> >>>>I didn't read the thread about recorders, because I'm really happy with >>>>mine, and I had shared about it before. >>> >>>>Mia >>> >>> >>>-- >>> >>>Project Manager >>>PARADISEC >>>Department of Linguistics and Applied Linguistics >>>University of Melbourne, Vic 3010 >>>Australia >>> >>>nicholas.thieberger at paradisec.org.au >>>Ph 61 (0)3 8344 5185 >>> >>>PARADISEC >>>Pacific And Regional Archive for Digital Sources in Endangered Cultures >>>http://paradisec.org.au > > > -- > Project Manager > PARADISEC > Department of Linguistics and Applied Linguistics > University of Melbourne, Vic 3010 > Australia > > nicholas.thieberger at paradisec.org.au > Ph 61 (0)3 8344 5185 > > PARADISEC > Pacific And Regional Archive for Digital Sources in Endangered Cultures > http://paradisec.org.au > -- Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. Department of English Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program American Indian Language Development Institute Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From keola at LEOKI.UHH.HAWAII.EDU Tue Jan 31 17:59:01 2006 From: keola at LEOKI.UHH.HAWAII.EDU (Keola Donaghy) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 07:59:01 -1000 Subject: Affordable digital recorder advice In-Reply-To: <001101c625da$5fee7880$6401a8c0@LFPMia> Message-ID: Aloha e Mia, I'd like to add a couple of thoughts, as some who as worked in a recording studios, though lacking experience in field recording... I've frequently heard the "warmth" of analog recording touted by some artists and engineers, though when I recorded people in both formats simultaneously and played them back, nearly all preferred the digital. For me the added clarity of digital, as well as lack of hiss and the artifacts added by Dolby and other noise reduction schemes, make my ears happier. When looking at digital recording and frequencies, you also need to take into account the Nyquist limit, which states your sampling rate must be twice that of the highest frequency that you wish to record. While this is less of an issue with spoken voice than music, you should try to locate equipment that can record at a frequency rate twice that of spoken voice. It's not really an issue these days; most will record up to 22k-44k, though devices designed specifically for spoken voice may not. What you will hear if you record something that is in the frequency range beyond that limit is a flanging-like effect in those ranges. While frequencies below the limit are not affected, and can be a bit annoying to hear that effect hovering over the entire recording. HTH, Keola Indigenous Languages and Technology ma Monday, January 30, 2006 ma 10:18 AM ua k?kau ?o -1000: >First, and maybe this was discussed in the original thread, the sampling >rate is more critical than the format. High sampling rates record more >data and take up more space. Thus you can record less before you have to >move the recordings to a more dense medium. Low sampling rates record >less data, and take up less space. > >The recorder direction is also important, with unidirectional being more >forgiving for voice recordings than omnidirectional. A good >omnidirectional mike will pick up the elks outside in the field across >the road (guess how I know). > >Then, if you want archival storage, you need archival media. Because I >move my stuff around, from computer locations to website, I don?t worry >about storing my stuff in an archive where only a few people will have >access. Because I move digitally, I don?t have to worry about data loss >due to multiple analog copies. The error correction is good enough so >that there is no effective loss. > >Has there been any discussion about the frequency of the human voice (I >assume because Jan wrote the message we are talking voice & language >recording, not music)? Human speech ranges from a low of about 100 HZ to >a high of about 5000 Hz, with the most commonly cited range being >300-3000 Hz. This isn?t to say that sopranos can?t make higher frequency >sounds, nor bass voices lower frequency sounds, it just means that most >people speak in that range, and so a recorder that is optimized for that >range will be better for voice recording, especially Elders speaking . . >. which I assume is what we are talking about here. > >I also haven?t seen any discussion about sound editing. I always edit my >recordings; usually there is more dead space than makes the response nice >for people, sometimes not enough, so I add or subtract so the response >feels nice. Sometimes I have volume issues; some people record too >loudly, in which case I have usually lost the top end because of >clipping, and sometimes it is too soft, and I can correct by digitally >enhancing. > >Finally, I haven?t heard any digital recording that has the warmth of >analog recording, but small digital recorders are easy to carry around, >and we found them to be unobtrusive when working with people. People tend >to forget they are there (the little recorders) and so they are less >stressed, and when they relax is what is now a comfortable situation, >there is less stress and strain, and more richness in their speaking >voices. > >I think this takes us to FinallyPartB: If your goal is merely to record >the spoken word and stash it somewhere, then probably you don?t care much >about whether the speaker is stressed or not, because your goal is just >to get THE WORD. On the other hand, if your goal is to use the recordings >for language revitalization, like I do, and like Jan is working towards, >then you care a great deal about richness, inflection, rhythm, and >comfort. ======================================================================= Keola Donaghy Assistant Professor of Hawaiian Studies Ka Haka 'Ula O Ke'elikolani keola at leoki.uhh.hawaii.edu University of Hawai'i at Hilo http://www2.hawaii.edu/~donaghy/ ======================================================================= From susan.penfield at GMAIL.COM Tue Jan 31 18:42:05 2006 From: susan.penfield at GMAIL.COM (Susan Penfield) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 11:42:05 -0700 Subject: Affordable digital recorder advice In-Reply-To: <004a01c62681$f3ba5730$6401a8c0@LFPMia> Message-ID: Mia, I couldn't agree more, because we have found all of the same conditions/recommendations. But the use of high quality equipment, in the field, still yields much better and much longer lasting recordings and should be considered. We had some problems just this weekend with a high end recorder, just because it was not initially easy to use. That led us to rethink what equipment is best and/or how much more training is needed. Guess all I'm saying is that there are lots of options now (I have also used your same recorder) and that making more of an investment in high quality is worth it in the long run. We are also in the business of creating tons of stuff for the community and are putting that responsibility into the hands of community members -- so I really understand what you are saying. Nevertheless, that makes the quality of the recordings even more valuable and we should all be striving not just for lots of stuff but for the best possible stuff, given the recording conditions. Best, Susan On 1/31/06, Mia Kalish wrote: > > Hi, Susan, > > > > I didn't read the whole main thread, but I thought I was perceiving a > recommendation for "recording studio quality" for archival recording. > Bringing people into a sound controlled studio is very different from > working in communities where we create tons and tons of material for use by > the community. > > > > When we were doing this initially 4-5 years ago now, Depree and I created > a whole checklist of things we wanted to be able to do, with a focus of > working in the community. For us, the considerations ranked approximately as > follows: > > 1. Elder comfort > > 2. Affordable by community members > > 3. High quality recording > > 4. Convenience > > 5. High portability > > 6. Battery-powered > > 7. Ease of use, for us & for community members > > > > Our goal was to work with communities to show them how they could take a > major hand in designing and developing their own resources. As such, many of > our considerations incorporated the needs of the Community in our assessment > of recorders. Sophisticated, expensive recorders wouldn't be appropriate; > special recording rooms and devices would take us out of the community and > would also be difficult to use in places where people live. We didn't want > to use our hosts' electricity; for some people, this is a financial > hardship, even for small requirements. We were also prepared for places > where there is no electricity; or where the travel to and from the locale is > challenging, as for example, the path down the Grand Canyon to the Havapai. > So we included all these considerations in our analysis. > > > > Mia > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto: > ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Susan Penfield > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 31, 2006 7:59 AM > *To:* ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > *Subject:* Re: [ILAT] Affordable digital recorder advice > > > > Mia, Jan and all, > Just a thought here -- It seems to me that we might not want to > distinguish between the uses for revitalization and documentation. Good > quality is needed on both fronts since they really play into each other. I > think that ease of use is important (for some of us less techie folks), and > certainly cost is an issue for many, but getting good archival quality > doesn't necessarily mean giving up all the other things Mia referred > and,increasingly, those of us who do revitalization work need to be mindful > that many of those recordings may end up as the only documentation of the > language. > Best, > Susan > > On 1/31/06, *Jan Tucker* < jtucker at starband.net> wrote: > > Thank you all for the information you provided about affordable digital > recorders. I'm looking at this one right now. > > > > Yes, I'm using it for language revitalization, and would like the best > possible quality and least degredation. I have about 100 to spend on the > devise and the accessories such as a microphone. > > > *Olympus* VN-960PC Digital Voice Recorder, with LCD Display - Built-in > 128MB Flash Memory and PC Link * * Any further comments would be welcome. > Here is a link with specifications. > > > > http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=389757&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation#Recording > > > > *In recording format they say ADPCM (Adaptive Differential Pulse code > Modulation)(WAV on PC). Can I assume then this is a .wav format recorder? > * > > Thank you, > > > > Jan > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Nicholas Thieberger" < thien at UNIMELB.EDU.AU > > > To: < ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > > > Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 2:30 PM > > Subject: Re: [ILAT] Affordable digital recorder advice > > > > > David, > > > > If it does not record in WAV format then it is not archival. |If it > > records in a compressed form like WMA, mp3, or others, and then > > converts to WAV it means the actual recording has already lost lots > > of the signal. The m-audio microtrack records to WAV and is around > > US$300 and is not too bad, it has some problem with preamps. > > > > Nick > > > > At 11:17 AM -0800 30/1/06, David Lewis wrote: > >>Hi Nicholas, > >>I checked out the first website mentioned and they wrote this as to > >>an archival quality format "For audio, use WAV > >>< http://emeld.org/school/glossary.html#wav > format." > >>Coincidentally, I was at Best Buy last night and looked over their > >>selection and chose the lower end of the higher end devices, the > >>WS-100. It is supposed to transfer directly into Microsoft WMA > >>format to the computer. I'm pretty sure I can then convert it to WAV > >>format either with Windows Media player or ITunes. Any advice here? > >>the device cost $100. the next higher device was $149.00. > >>David Lewis > >> > >>Nicholas Thieberger wrote: > >> > >>>--> > >>>Just to add to this thread from an archival perspective. If you are > >>>recording unique things that you want to be available to > >>>generations to come then you need to think about the format of what > >>>you are recording and whether it will endure. Olympus and other > >>>small (and cheap, unfortunately) recorders do not record in > >>>archival formats. > >>> > >>>For a summary of the issues around longterm storage of recorded > >>>material and endangered languages you could look at > >>>http://emeld.org/school/index.html. > >>> > >>>There was a discussion of recorders on the RNLD list and if you go > >>>to the archive of the RNLD list, here: > >>>http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?S1=resource-network-linguistic-diversity > > >>>and search for 'flash' and 'recorder' you will get some useful info > >>> > >>>A summary item is here: http://linguistlist.org/issues/16/16-2710.html > >>> > >>>All the best, > >>> > >>>Nick Thieberger > >>> > >>>At 7:36 AM -0700 30/1/06, Mia Kalish wrote: > >>> > >>>>Jan & all, > >>>> > >>>>I have been using Olympus digital recorders for years now. They have 3 > > >>>>quality settings (low, medium, & high) and 2 recording modes (one for > >>>>meetings, one for one-to-one). The ones I buy are about $99. I > recently got > >>>>a Sony refurb unit for $32 at e-cost.com. > >>>> > >>>>I didn't read the thread about recorders, because I'm really happy > with > >>>>mine, and I had shared about it before. > >>> > >>>>Mia > >>> > >>> > >>>-- > >>> > >>>Project Manager > >>>PARADISEC > >>>Department of Linguistics and Applied Linguistics > >>>University of Melbourne, Vic 3010 > >>>Australia > >>> > >>> nicholas.thieberger at paradisec.org.au > >>>Ph 61 (0)3 8344 5185 > >>> > >>>PARADISEC > >>>Pacific And Regional Archive for Digital Sources in Endangered Cultures > > >>>http://paradisec.org.au > > > > > > -- > > Project Manager > > PARADISEC > > Department of Linguistics and Applied Linguistics > > University of Melbourne, Vic 3010 > > Australia > > > > nicholas.thieberger at paradisec.org.au > > Ph 61 (0)3 8344 5185 > > > > PARADISEC > > Pacific And Regional Archive for Digital Sources in Endangered Cultures > > http://paradisec.org.au > > > > > > > -- > Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. > > Department of English > Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics > and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program > American Indian Language Development Institute > Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 > -- Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. Department of English Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program American Indian Language Development Institute Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US Tue Jan 31 19:04:30 2006 From: MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US (Mia Kalish) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 12:04:30 -0700 Subject: Affordable digital recorder advice In-Reply-To: <39a679e20601311042u1e372f8fj72465a2130c96b60@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I guess the upshot of all this is that I don't think people should be made to feel bad because they can't afford high-end equipment. I loved Keola's musician's analysis. He's right about the Dolby hiss :-) And I agree that there are lots of recording options. But I think also what has come out of this discussion is that there are lots of considerations, lots of available technology, lots of things you can do with the recordings, and lots of people who will use the technology and the recordings. Keola mentioned sampling frequencies: # of bits is related to sampling size; it is also related to how fast materials will download. I've noticed that a lot of the sites I see don't seem to worry about how long it takes a sound to make it down to the listener. People also use Windows Media format which is InCreDibly SLOW. . . . (aaargh). Every time to open a sound, it has to open that high-graph interface. . . . Recently, I couldn't download the new Windows Media Player because there was something wrong with the signing in the internal configuration. So I could hear the Welsh on the BBS site. . . . Mia _____ From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Susan Penfield Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 11:42 AM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [ILAT] Affordable digital recorder advice Mia, I couldn't agree more, because we have found all of the same conditions/recommendations. But the use of high quality equipment, in the field, still yields much better and much longer lasting recordings and should be considered. We had some problems just this weekend with a high end recorder, just because it was not initially easy to use. That led us to rethink what equipment is best and/or how much more training is needed. Guess all I'm saying is that there are lots of options now (I have also used your same recorder) and that making more of an investment in high quality is worth it in the long run. We are also in the business of creating tons of stuff for the community and are putting that responsibility into the hands of community members -- so I really understand what you are saying. Nevertheless, that makes the quality of the recordings even more valuable and we should all be striving not just for lots of stuff but for the best possible stuff, given the recording conditions. Best, Susan On 1/31/06, Mia Kalish > wrote: Hi, Susan, I didn't read the whole main thread, but I thought I was perceiving a recommendation for "recording studio quality" for archival recording. Bringing people into a sound controlled studio is very different from working in communities where we create tons and tons of material for use by the community. When we were doing this initially 4-5 years ago now, Depree and I created a whole checklist of things we wanted to be able to do, with a focus of working in the community. For us, the considerations ranked approximately as follows: 1. Elder comfort 2. Affordable by community members 3. High quality recording 4. Convenience 5. High portability 6. Battery-powered 7. Ease of use, for us & for community members Our goal was to work with communities to show them how they could take a major hand in designing and developing their own resources. As such, many of our considerations incorporated the needs of the Community in our assessment of recorders. Sophisticated, expensive recorders wouldn't be appropriate; special recording rooms and devices would take us out of the community and would also be difficult to use in places where people live. We didn't want to use our hosts' electricity; for some people, this is a financial hardship, even for small requirements. We were also prepared for places where there is no electricity; or where the travel to and from the locale is challenging, as for example, the path down the Grand Canyon to the Havapai. So we included all these considerations in our analysis. Mia _____ From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Susan Penfield Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 7:59 AM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [ILAT] Affordable digital recorder advice Mia, Jan and all, Just a thought here -- It seems to me that we might not want to distinguish between the uses for revitalization and documentation. Good quality is needed on both fronts since they really play into each other. I think that ease of use is important (for some of us less techie folks), and certainly cost is an issue for many, but getting good archival quality doesn't necessarily mean giving up all the other things Mia referred and,increasingly, those of us who do revitalization work need to be mindful that many of those recordings may end up as the only documentation of the language. Best, Susan On 1/31/06, Jan Tucker < jtucker at starband.net > wrote: Thank you all for the information you provided about affordable digital recorders. I'm looking at this one right now. Yes, I'm using it for language revitalization, and would like the best possible quality and least degredation. I have about 100 to spend on the devise and the accessories such as a microphone. Olympus VN-960PC Digital Voice Recorder, with LCD Display - Built-in 128MB Flash Memory and PC Link Any further comments would be welcome. Here is a link with specifications. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&s ku=389757&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation#Recording In recording format they say ADPCM (Adaptive Differential Pulse code Modulation)(WAV on PC). Can I assume then this is a .wav format recorder? Thank you, Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicholas Thieberger" < thien at UNIMELB.EDU.AU > To: < ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 2:30 PM Subject: Re: [ILAT] Affordable digital recorder advice > David, > > If it does not record in WAV format then it is not archival. |If it > records in a compressed form like WMA, mp3, or others, and then > converts to WAV it means the actual recording has already lost lots > of the signal. The m-audio microtrack records to WAV and is around > US$300 and is not too bad, it has some problem with preamps. > > Nick > > At 11:17 AM -0800 30/1/06, David Lewis wrote: >>Hi Nicholas, >>I checked out the first website mentioned and they wrote this as to >>an archival quality format "For audio, use WAV >>< http://emeld.org/school/glossary.html#wav > format." >>Coincidentally, I was at Best Buy last night and looked over their >>selection and chose the lower end of the higher end devices, the >>WS-100. It is supposed to transfer directly into Microsoft WMA >>format to the computer. I'm pretty sure I can then convert it to WAV >>format either with Windows Media player or ITunes. Any advice here? >>the device cost $100. the next higher device was $149.00. >>David Lewis >> >>Nicholas Thieberger wrote: >> >>>--> >>>Just to add to this thread from an archival perspective. If you are >>>recording unique things that you want to be available to >>>generations to come then you need to think about the format of what >>>you are recording and whether it will endure. Olympus and other >>>small (and cheap, unfortunately) recorders do not record in >>>archival formats. >>> >>>For a summary of the issues around longterm storage of recorded >>>material and endangered languages you could look at >>>http://emeld.org/school/index.html. >>> >>>There was a discussion of recorders on the RNLD list and if you go >>>to the archive of the RNLD list, here: >>> http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?S1=resource-network-linguistic-d iversity >>>and search for 'flash' and 'recorder' you will get some useful info >>> >>>A summary item is here: http://linguistlist.org/issues/16/16-2710.html >>> >>>All the best, >>> >>>Nick Thieberger >>> >>>At 7:36 AM -0700 30/1/06, Mia Kalish wrote: >>> >>>>Jan & all, >>>> >>>>I have been using Olympus digital recorders for years now. They have 3 >>>>quality settings (low, medium, & high) and 2 recording modes (one for >>>>meetings, one for one-to-one). The ones I buy are about $99. I recently got >>>>a Sony refurb unit for $32 at e-cost.com . >>>> >>>>I didn't read the thread about recorders, because I'm really happy with >>>>mine, and I had shared about it before. >>> >>>>Mia >>> >>> >>>-- >>> >>>Project Manager >>>PARADISEC >>>Department of Linguistics and Applied Linguistics >>>University of Melbourne, Vic 3010 >>>Australia >>> >>> nicholas.thieberger at paradisec.org.au >>>Ph 61 (0)3 8344 5185 >>> >>>PARADISEC >>>Pacific And Regional Archive for Digital Sources in Endangered Cultures >>>http://paradisec.org.au > > > -- > Project Manager > PARADISEC > Department of Linguistics and Applied Linguistics > University of Melbourne, Vic 3010 > Australia > > nicholas.thieberger at paradisec.org.au > Ph 61 (0)3 8344 5185 > > PARADISEC > Pacific And Regional Archive for Digital Sources in Endangered Cultures > http://paradisec.org.au > -- Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. Department of English Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program American Indian Language Development Institute Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 -- Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. Department of English Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program American Indian Language Development Institute Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US Tue Jan 31 19:08:06 2006 From: MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US (Mia Kalish) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 12:08:06 -0700 Subject: Affordable digital recorder advice In-Reply-To: <39a679e20601311042u1e372f8fj72465a2130c96b60@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: PS: I just ordered a Lightscribe drive . . . painfully slow to create the label, beautiful results. (BenQ DW-1655 in a USB 2.0/Firewire external enclosure) . . . :-) :-) :-) Just in case anyone was starting to doubt my essential techie-ness there. And I am writing some of my recordings to the Lightscribe media :-) _____ From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Susan Penfield Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 11:42 AM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [ILAT] Affordable digital recorder advice Mia, I couldn't agree more, because we have found all of the same conditions/recommendations. But the use of high quality equipment, in the field, still yields much better and much longer lasting recordings and should be considered. We had some problems just this weekend with a high end recorder, just because it was not initially easy to use. That led us to rethink what equipment is best and/or how much more training is needed. Guess all I'm saying is that there are lots of options now (I have also used your same recorder) and that making more of an investment in high quality is worth it in the long run. We are also in the business of creating tons of stuff for the community and are putting that responsibility into the hands of community members -- so I really understand what you are saying. Nevertheless, that makes the quality of the recordings even more valuable and we should all be striving not just for lots of stuff but for the best possible stuff, given the recording conditions. Best, Susan On 1/31/06, Mia Kalish > wrote: Hi, Susan, I didn't read the whole main thread, but I thought I was perceiving a recommendation for "recording studio quality" for archival recording. Bringing people into a sound controlled studio is very different from working in communities where we create tons and tons of material for use by the community. When we were doing this initially 4-5 years ago now, Depree and I created a whole checklist of things we wanted to be able to do, with a focus of working in the community. For us, the considerations ranked approximately as follows: 1. Elder comfort 2. Affordable by community members 3. High quality recording 4. Convenience 5. High portability 6. Battery-powered 7. Ease of use, for us & for community members Our goal was to work with communities to show them how they could take a major hand in designing and developing their own resources. As such, many of our considerations incorporated the needs of the Community in our assessment of recorders. Sophisticated, expensive recorders wouldn't be appropriate; special recording rooms and devices would take us out of the community and would also be difficult to use in places where people live. We didn't want to use our hosts' electricity; for some people, this is a financial hardship, even for small requirements. We were also prepared for places where there is no electricity; or where the travel to and from the locale is challenging, as for example, the path down the Grand Canyon to the Havapai. So we included all these considerations in our analysis. Mia _____ From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Susan Penfield Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 7:59 AM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [ILAT] Affordable digital recorder advice Mia, Jan and all, Just a thought here -- It seems to me that we might not want to distinguish between the uses for revitalization and documentation. Good quality is needed on both fronts since they really play into each other. I think that ease of use is important (for some of us less techie folks), and certainly cost is an issue for many, but getting good archival quality doesn't necessarily mean giving up all the other things Mia referred and,increasingly, those of us who do revitalization work need to be mindful that many of those recordings may end up as the only documentation of the language. Best, Susan On 1/31/06, Jan Tucker < jtucker at starband.net > wrote: Thank you all for the information you provided about affordable digital recorders. I'm looking at this one right now. Yes, I'm using it for language revitalization, and would like the best possible quality and least degredation. I have about 100 to spend on the devise and the accessories such as a microphone. Olympus VN-960PC Digital Voice Recorder, with LCD Display - Built-in 128MB Flash Memory and PC Link Any further comments would be welcome. Here is a link with specifications. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&s ku=389757&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation#Recording In recording format they say ADPCM (Adaptive Differential Pulse code Modulation)(WAV on PC). Can I assume then this is a .wav format recorder? Thank you, Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicholas Thieberger" < thien at UNIMELB.EDU.AU > To: < ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 2:30 PM Subject: Re: [ILAT] Affordable digital recorder advice > David, > > If it does not record in WAV format then it is not archival. |If it > records in a compressed form like WMA, mp3, or others, and then > converts to WAV it means the actual recording has already lost lots > of the signal. The m-audio microtrack records to WAV and is around > US$300 and is not too bad, it has some problem with preamps. > > Nick > > At 11:17 AM -0800 30/1/06, David Lewis wrote: >>Hi Nicholas, >>I checked out the first website mentioned and they wrote this as to >>an archival quality format "For audio, use WAV >>< http://emeld.org/school/glossary.html#wav > format." >>Coincidentally, I was at Best Buy last night and looked over their >>selection and chose the lower end of the higher end devices, the >>WS-100. It is supposed to transfer directly into Microsoft WMA >>format to the computer. I'm pretty sure I can then convert it to WAV >>format either with Windows Media player or ITunes. Any advice here? >>the device cost $100. the next higher device was $149.00. >>David Lewis >> >>Nicholas Thieberger wrote: >> >>>--> >>>Just to add to this thread from an archival perspective. If you are >>>recording unique things that you want to be available to >>>generations to come then you need to think about the format of what >>>you are recording and whether it will endure. Olympus and other >>>small (and cheap, unfortunately) recorders do not record in >>>archival formats. >>> >>>For a summary of the issues around longterm storage of recorded >>>material and endangered languages you could look at >>>http://emeld.org/school/index.html. >>> >>>There was a discussion of recorders on the RNLD list and if you go >>>to the archive of the RNLD list, here: >>> http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?S1=resource-network-linguistic-d iversity >>>and search for 'flash' and 'recorder' you will get some useful info >>> >>>A summary item is here: http://linguistlist.org/issues/16/16-2710.html >>> >>>All the best, >>> >>>Nick Thieberger >>> >>>At 7:36 AM -0700 30/1/06, Mia Kalish wrote: >>> >>>>Jan & all, >>>> >>>>I have been using Olympus digital recorders for years now. They have 3 >>>>quality settings (low, medium, & high) and 2 recording modes (one for >>>>meetings, one for one-to-one). The ones I buy are about $99. I recently got >>>>a Sony refurb unit for $32 at e-cost.com . >>>> >>>>I didn't read the thread about recorders, because I'm really happy with >>>>mine, and I had shared about it before. >>> >>>>Mia >>> >>> >>>-- >>> >>>Project Manager >>>PARADISEC >>>Department of Linguistics and Applied Linguistics >>>University of Melbourne, Vic 3010 >>>Australia >>> >>> nicholas.thieberger at paradisec.org.au >>>Ph 61 (0)3 8344 5185 >>> >>>PARADISEC >>>Pacific And Regional Archive for Digital Sources in Endangered Cultures >>>http://paradisec.org.au > > > -- > Project Manager > PARADISEC > Department of Linguistics and Applied Linguistics > University of Melbourne, Vic 3010 > Australia > > nicholas.thieberger at paradisec.org.au > Ph 61 (0)3 8344 5185 > > PARADISEC > Pacific And Regional Archive for Digital Sources in Endangered Cultures > http://paradisec.org.au > -- Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. Department of English Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program American Indian Language Development Institute Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 -- Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. Department of English Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program American Indian Language Development Institute Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU Tue Jan 31 21:32:54 2006 From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 14:32:54 -0700 Subject: Indigenous groups share in infrastructure funds (fwd) Message-ID: Tuesday, 31 January 2006, 13:53:44? AEDT INDIGENOUS GROUPS SHARE IN INFRASTRUCTURE FUNDS http://abc.net.au/message/news/stories/ms_news_1558917.htm Several Indigenous groups in regional Western Australia have received State Government funding to develop infrastructure projects. In the Pilbara, $150,000 will go to the Kunawarritji Aboriginal Corporation for the construction of a new general store. A similar amount will go to the Shire of Kellerberrin in the wheatbelt to upgrade two buildings that will house Indigenous art and artefacts. A Noongar language centre with visitor facilities will also be established. The Baiyungu Aboriginal Corporation will also get $250,000 from the Regional Investment Fund to assist with the development of a workers' accommodation complex in Coral Bay. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU Tue Jan 31 21:37:02 2006 From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 14:37:02 -0700 Subject: Words help us see and talk (fwd) Message-ID: WORDS HELP US SEE AND TALK An image of the ring of colored squares. The language we speak affects half of what we see, according to researchers at the University of California, Berkeley, and the University of Chicago. http://www.physorg.com/printnews.php?newsid=10413 Scholars have long debated whether our native language affects how we perceive reality ? and whether speakers of different languages might therefore see the world differently. The idea that language affects perception is controversial, and results have conflicted. A paper published this month in the _Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences_ supports the idea ? but with a twist. The paper suggests that language affects perception in the right half of the visual field, but much less, if at all, in the left half. The paper, ?Whorf Hypothesis is Supported in the Right Visual Field but not in the Left,? by Aubrey Gilbert, Terry Regier, Paul Kay, and Richard Ivry ? is the first to propose that language may shape just half of our visual world. Terry Regier is Associate Professor of Psychology at the University of Chicago. Gilbert is a graduate student in the Helen Wills Neuroscience Institute at UC Berkeley. Kay is Professor Emeritus of Linguistics and a senior research scientist at the International Computer Science Institute in Berkeley. Ivry is a Professor of Psychology, director of UC Berkeley's Institute of Cognitive and Brain Sciences, and a member of the Helen Wills Neuroscience Institute. This finding is suggested by the organization of the brain, the researchers say. Language function is processed predominantly in the left hemisphere of the brain, which receives visual information directly from the right visual field. ?So it would make sense for the language processes of the left hemisphere to influence perception more in the right half of the visual field than in the left half?, said Terry Regier of the University of Chicago, who proposed the idea behind the study. The team confirmed the hypothesis, through experiments designed and conducted in Richard Ivry?s lab at the University of California, Berkeley. ?We were thrilled to find this sort of effect and are very interested in investigating it further,? said Gilbert, the lead author on the study. The hypothesis was confirmed in experiments that tested Berkeley undergraduates, and also in an experiment that tested a patient whose hemispheres had been surgically separated. ?The evening I first reviewed the split-brain patient data I called people at home in my excitement to share the findings,? said Gilbert. Many of the distinctions made in English do not appear in other languages, and vice versa. For instance, English uses two different words for the colors blue and green, while many other languages ? such as Tarahumara, an indigenous language of Mexico ? instead use a single color term that covers shades of both blue and green. An earlier study by Paul Kay and colleagues had shown that speakers of English and Tarahumara perceive colors differently: English speakers found blues and greens to be more distinct from each other than speakers of Tarahumara did, as if the English ?green? / ?blue? linguistic distinction sharpened the perceptual difference between the colors themselves. The present study essentially repeated the English part of that earlier test, but also made sure that colors were presented to either the right or the left half of the visual field ? something the earlier study hadn?t done ? so as to test whether language influences the right half of our visual world more than the left half, as predicted by brain organization. In each experimental trial of the present study, participants saw a ring of colored squares. All the squares were of exactly the same color, except for an ?odd-man-out? of a different color. The odd-man-out appeared in either the right or the left half of the circle, and participants were asked to indicate which side of the circle the odd-man-out was on, by making a keyboard response. Critically, the color of this odd-man-out had either the same name as the other squares (e.g. a shade of ?green?, while the others were all a different shade of ?green?), or a different name (e.g. a shade of ?blue?, while the others were all a shade of ?green?). The researchers found that participants responded more quickly when the color of the odd-man-out had a different name than the color of the other squares ? as if the linguistic difference had heightened the perceptual difference ? but this only occurred if the odd-man-out was in the right half of the visual field, and not when it was in the left half. This was the predicted pattern. Earlier studies addressing the possible influence of language on perception tended to look for a simple yes or no answer: either language affects perception, or it does not. In contrast, the current findings support both views at once. Language appears to sharpen visual distinctions in the right visual field, and not in the left visual field. The researchers conclude that ?our representation of the visual world may be, at one and the same time, filtered and not filtered through the categories of language.? Source: University of Chicago _This news is brought to you by PHYSORG.COM_ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 20746 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU Tue Jan 31 21:43:30 2006 From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 14:43:30 -0700 Subject: Bill would boost efforts to retain tribal language (fwd) Message-ID: Bill would boost efforts to retain tribal language Posted: January 31, 2006 by: The Associated Press http://www.indiancountry.com/content.cfm?id=1096412342 AUGUSTA, Maine (AP) - The days in which Penobscot children were admonished for speaking their native language in school are long gone. But the Penobscots still need to do more to rebuild a language that was nearly lost forever, a tribal lawmaker says. Michael Sockalexis, who represents his tribe in the Legislature, has introduced a bill that would add $300,000 to a Penobscot Language Preservation Fund operated by the state Department of Education. The money would be matched by the National Endowment for the Humanities. Many Penobscots know some words or phrases, but few are fluent. Precise figures are hard to come by, but Sockalexis said there are only a handful of ''traditional speakers'' among the tribe's more than 2,300 members, more than 1,000 of whom still live in Maine. Sockalexis said he was part of the last generation to be immersed in the Penobscot language at home. But even he is no longer fluent. ''I lost it,'' he said. With the language ''at a tipping point,'' the goal is to continue to instill the language in the tribe's children and to turn it back into a conversational language, he said. The tribe, which has a reservation on Indian Island, is working hard to do just that, using an after-school program that serves all students in the K - 8 school, as well as an immersion summer camp at which students speak nothing but Penobscot. The state funding and the matching funds would allow the tribe to move the language program back into the regular classroom, Sockalexis said. Maine's four Indian tribes - the Penobscot Nation, Passamaquoddy Tribe, Houlton Band of Maliseets and Aroostook Band of Micmacs - speak languages that are closely related. Those tribes and the Abenakis comprise what is known as the Wabanaki Confederacy. Wayne Newell, a Passamaquoddy language coordinator and an authority on all of Maine's tribal languages, said he prefers to speak Passamaquoddy. ''When we were kids, that's all you spoke. That's all you had. That's all you saw,'' he said. Now, Newell said, children of all tribes are unlikely to become fluent in their native languages, or to speak them at all, unless they learn them at school. The differences between English and Indian languages are much greater than the difference between English and French or Spanish, he noted. There are some English words that have no equivalent in Native languages, or that translate very differently. There is no Passamaquoddy word for ''wild,'' for example, because ''we have no concept of it'' as Indians, Newell said. Another difference is that verbs are more important than nouns in the Passamaquoddy language. ''You can have a complete sentence in Passamaquoddy with one word,'' Newell said. Newell said efforts like those of Sockalexis are important because language defines people. ''Whenever you lose a language, you lose more than just a language,'' he said. From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU Tue Jan 31 21:53:32 2006 From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 14:53:32 -0700 Subject: Peter Ladefoged, Linguist and Movie Consultant (fwd) Message-ID: PETER LADEFOGED, LINGUIST AND MOVIE CONSULTANT From News Services Monday, January 30, 2006; B06 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/29/AR2006012900989.html Peter Ladefoged, 80, a pioneering linguist who consulted on the 1964 film "My Fair Lady," in which actor Rex Harrison plays a phonetician, died Jan. 24 at a hospital in London after a stroke. Dr. Ladefoged, who made it his life's work to record and study the various parts of speech, became ill while traveling home from a research trip to India. Dr. Ladefoged pioneered the use of state-of-the-art equipment in the field. His first portable phonetics lab, which included a tape recorder and various scientific instruments, weighed 100 pounds and required a porter but enabled him to do more than listen: He could take quantitative measurements, such as gauging how much air escaped from the nose or throat when a sound was made. In an earlier trip to India, he recorded the Toda language, which is spoken by fewer than 1,000 people, as he documented its six trills produced by the tip of the tongue. In the Kalahari Desert, he studied the click sound native to Africa. In the United States, a Native American tribe whose members knew their language was vanishing refused to cooperate because they didn't want to reveal their culture to outsiders. Soon after moving to Los Angeles from Scotland to become an assistant professor at UCLA in 1962, Dr. Ladefoged had a brief career in Hollywood as the chief linguistic consultant on "My Fair Lady." Director George Cukor wanted him to teach Harrison -- who would win an Academy Award for the starring role of Professor Henry Higgins -- to behave like a phonetician. "My immediate answer was, 'I don't have a singing butler and three maids who sing, but I will tell you what I can as an assistant professor,' " Dr. Ladefoged told the Los Angeles Times in 2004. Dr. Ladefoged helped set up the film set's phonetics laboratory, taught Harrison to read phonetic symbols -- and ate cookies that the film's co-star, Audrey Hepburn, baked for crew members. "I'd never heard of Cukor. It just struck me as the chance to earn a fortune each week," Dr. Ladefoged said. "It was just so much more than a professor's salary. It paid me enough to buy my first car in America." The professor's voice is preserved on the soundtrack. When Henry Higgins stomps down the stairs, he knocks a record player that starts playing a recording of Dr. Ladefoged making vowel sounds. Peter Nielsen Ladefoged was born in Sutton, England. After serving in the British army during World War II, he enrolled at the University of Edinburgh in Scotland. He planned to study English literature but soon became fascinated by the sounds of speech. He earned a doctorate in phonetics at the university. "I wanted to find out why Shelley could write better-sounding poetry than I," he told the Los Angeles Times in 1970. Survivors include his wife, Jenny; three children; and five grandchildren. ??2006?The Washington Post Company -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From naomi.fox at UTAH.EDU Tue Jan 31 22:43:26 2006 From: naomi.fox at UTAH.EDU (Naomi Fox) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 15:43:26 -0700 Subject: Affordable digital recorder advice In-Reply-To: <000b01c62699$2cb132e0$6401a8c0@LFPMia> Message-ID: I may not have read all the messages in this thread, so I'm not sure if someone has already brought this up, but you might consider recording directly to a laptop. For some circumstances, this is ideal--cuts out the download time and gives the opportunity to make a copy of the recording for immediate return to the speaker. If you have a decent sound card and an iMic (about $35) hooked to a microphone to clean up the signal the quality can be quite good. You can also carry this equipment for use as a backup in the event of equipment malfunction if you use another device as your primary. The Vermont Folklife Center has a good description of the process at http://www.vermontfolklifecenter.org/res_audioequip.htm#v. Best, Naomi -- Naomi Fox Center for American Indian Languages University of Utah Quoting Mia Kalish : I guess the upshot of all this is that I don't think people should be made to feel bad because they can't afford high-end equipment. I loved Keola's musician's analysis. He's right about the Dolby hiss :-) And I agree that there are lots of recording options. But I think also what has come out of this discussion is that there are lots of considerations, lots of available technology, lots of things you can do with the recordings, and lots of people who will use the technology and the recordings. Keola mentioned sampling frequencies: # of bits is related to sampling size; it is also related to how fast materials will download. I've noticed that a lot of the sites I see don't seem to worry about how long it takes a sound to make it down to the listener. People also use Windows Media format which is InCreDibly SLOW. . . . (aaargh). Every time to open a sound, it has to open that high-graph interface. . . . Recently, I couldn't download the new Windows Media Player because there was something wrong with the signing in the internal configuration. So I could hear the Welsh on the BBS site. . . . Mia _____ From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Susan Penfield Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 11:42 AM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [ILAT] Affordable digital recorder advice Mia, I couldn't agree more, because we have found all of the same conditions/recommendations. But the use of high quality equipment, in the field, still yields much better and much longer lasting recordings and should be considered. We had some problems just this weekend with a high end recorder, just because it was not initially easy to use. That led us to rethink what equipment is best and/or how much more training is needed. Guess all I'm saying is that there are lots of options now (I have also used your same recorder) and that making more of an investment in high quality is worth it in the long run. We are also in the business of creating tons of stuff for the community and are putting that responsibility into the hands of community members -- so I really understand what you are saying. Nevertheless, that makes the quality of the recordings even more valuable and we should all be striving not just for lots of stuff but for the best possible stuff, given the recording conditions. Best, Susan On 1/31/06, Mia Kalish > wrote: Hi, Susan, I didn't read the whole main thread, but I thought I was perceiving a recommendation for "recording studio quality" for archival recording. Bringing people into a sound controlled studio is very different from working in communities where we create tons and tons of material for use by the community. When we were doing this initially 4-5 years ago now, Depree and I created a whole checklist of things we wanted to be able to do, with a focus of working in the community. For us, the considerations ranked approximately as follows: 1. Elder comfort 2. Affordable by community members 3. High quality recording 4. Convenience 5. High portability 6. Battery-powered 7. Ease of use, for us & for community members Our goal was to work with communities to show them how they could take a major hand in designing and developing their own resources. As such, many of our considerations incorporated the needs of the Community in our assessment of recorders. Sophisticated, expensive recorders wouldn't be appropriate; special recording rooms and devices would take us out of the community and would also be difficult to use in places where people live. We didn't want to use our hosts' electricity; for some people, this is a financial hardship, even for small requirements. We were also prepared for places where there is no electricity; or where the travel to and from the locale is challenging, as for example, the path down the Grand Canyon to the Havapai. So we included all these considerations in our analysis. Mia _____ From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Susan Penfield Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 7:59 AM To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [ILAT] Affordable digital recorder advice Mia, Jan and all, Just a thought here -- It seems to me that we might not want to distinguish between the uses for revitalization and documentation. Good quality is needed on both fronts since they really play into each other. I think that ease of use is important (for some of us less techie folks), and certainly cost is an issue for many, but getting good archival quality doesn't necessarily mean giving up all the other things Mia referred and,increasingly, those of us who do revitalization work need to be mindful that many of those recordings may end up as the only documentation of the language. Best, Susan On 1/31/06, Jan Tucker < jtucker at starband.net > wrote: Thank you all for the information you provided about affordable digital recorders. I'm looking at this one right now. Yes, I'm using it for language revitalization, and would like the best possible quality and least degredation. I have about 100 to spend on the devise and the accessories such as a microphone. Olympus VN-960PC Digital Voice Recorder, with LCD Display - Built-in 128MB Flash Memory and PC Link Any further comments would be welcome. Here is a link with specifications. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&s ku=389757&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation#Recording In recording format they say ADPCM (Adaptive Differential Pulse code Modulation)(WAV on PC). Can I assume then this is a .wav format recorder? Thank you, Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicholas Thieberger" < thien at UNIMELB.EDU.AU > To: < ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 2:30 PM Subject: Re: [ILAT] Affordable digital recorder advice > David, > > If it does not record in WAV format then it is not archival. |If it > records in a compressed form like WMA, mp3, or others, and then > converts to WAV it means the actual recording has already lost lots > of the signal. The m-audio microtrack records to WAV and is around > US$300 and is not too bad, it has some problem with preamps. > > Nick > > At 11:17 AM -0800 30/1/06, David Lewis wrote: >>Hi Nicholas, >>I checked out the first website mentioned and they wrote this as to >>an archival quality format "For audio, use WAV >>< http://emeld.org/school/glossary.html#wav > format." >>Coincidentally, I was at Best Buy last night and looked over their >>selection and chose the lower end of the higher end devices, the >>WS-100. It is supposed to transfer directly into Microsoft WMA >>format to the computer. I'm pretty sure I can then convert it to WAV >>format either with Windows Media player or ITunes. Any advice here? >>the device cost $100. the next higher device was $149.00. >>David Lewis >> >>Nicholas Thieberger wrote: >> >>>--> >>>Just to add to this thread from an archival perspective. If you are >>>recording unique things that you want to be available to >>>generations to come then you need to think about the format of what >>>you are recording and whether it will endure. Olympus and other >>>small (and cheap, unfortunately) recorders do not record in >>>archival formats. >>> >>>For a summary of the issues around longterm storage of recorded >>>material and endangered languages you could look at >>>http://emeld.org/school/index.html. >>> >>>There was a discussion of recorders on the RNLD list and if you go >>>to the archive of the RNLD list, here: >>> http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?S1=resource-network-linguistic-d iversity >>>and search for 'flash' and 'recorder' you will get some useful info >>> >>>A summary item is here: http://linguistlist.org/issues/16/16-2710.html >>> >>>All the best, >>> >>>Nick Thieberger >>> >>>At 7:36 AM -0700 30/1/06, Mia Kalish wrote: >>> >>>>Jan & all, >>>> >>>>I have been using Olympus digital recorders for years now. They have 3 >>>>quality settings (low, medium, & high) and 2 recording modes (one for >>>>meetings, one for one-to-one). The ones I buy are about $99. I recently got >>>>a Sony refurb unit for $32 at e-cost.com . >>>> >>>>I didn't read the thread about recorders, because I'm really happy with >>>>mine, and I had shared about it before. >>> >>>>Mia >>> >>> >>>-- >>> >>>Project Manager >>>PARADISEC >>>Department of Linguistics and Applied Linguistics >>>University of Melbourne, Vic 3010 >>>Australia >>> >>> nicholas.thieberger at paradisec.org.au >>>Ph 61 (0)3 8344 5185 >>> >>>PARADISEC >>>Pacific And Regional Archive for Digital Sources in Endangered Cultures >>>http://paradisec.org.au > > > -- > Project Manager > PARADISEC > Department of Linguistics and Applied Linguistics > University of Melbourne, Vic 3010 > Australia > > nicholas.thieberger at paradisec.org.au > Ph 61 (0)3 8344 5185 > > PARADISEC > Pacific And Regional Archive for Digital Sources in Endangered Cultures > http://paradisec.org.au > -- Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. Department of English Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program American Indian Language Development Institute Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 -- Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. Department of English Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program American Indian Language Development Institute Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU Tue Jan 31 23:22:30 2006 From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 16:22:30 -0700 Subject: Affordable digital recorder advice In-Reply-To: <1138747406.43dfe80e6a64d@webmail.utah.edu> Message-ID: Hi Naomi, everybody, I am glad you brought this up as I have been experminenting with recording directly to a laptop (PC & Mac).? I have not worked out all the kinks but it seems to work fine as much as I can do in setting up in 5 minutes.? I am using AudioBuddy (dual mini mic preamp), a Shure SM63L mic, and a mini table mic mount.? Both the Shure mic and preamp use XLR connections.? At the moment, I am not too concerned about the audio capture and have been using Audacity (freeware), SoundForge 6.0 (PC), and Soundtrack Pro (Mac) with varying results recording .wav and .aiff files at 44.1 hertz & 16 bit.? I think I tried using GarageBand at one point but don't remember the results.? Otherwise, I have also been using a Plantronics DSP400 (several yrs old, probably outmoded by now) USB microphone headset for single speaker voice recording and recording my own voice.? The only drawback so far has been my PC laptop which has a very noisy fan so when I am recording the sensitive mic picks it up quite clear.?? I have been thinking about burying it inside a foamed lined box!? Live recordings of activities (people doing things) I am putting onto film, otherwise laptop recording can mostly happen on a table where you are recording speakers or things that are immobile. Although this may not be directly related to recording but one other recommendation I can swear by is to get the best possible monitoring speakers and headphones you can buy.? It makes the world of difference!?? Little sounds coming from your digitial hand held recorder, laptop speakers, or 20$ computer speakers will not do... ;-o? I just picked up a pair of M-Audio BX5a monitoring speakers and wow...I am hearing sweet sounds from my language recordings that I have never heard before! Anyway, just a few comments and marvels to add here.? Phil Cash Cash Nez Perce Reservation UofA Quoting Naomi Fox : > I may not have read all the messages in this thread, so I'm not sure > if someone > has already brought this up, but you might consider recording directly to a > laptop. For some circumstances, this is ideal--cuts out the download time and > gives the opportunity to make a copy of the recording for immediate return to > the speaker. If you have a decent sound card and an iMic (about $35) > hooked to > a microphone to clean up the signal the quality can be quite good. > You can also > carry this equipment for use as a backup in the event of equipment > malfunction > if you use another device as your primary. The Vermont Folklife Center has a > good description of the process at > http://www.vermontfolklifecenter.org/res_audioequip.htm#v. > > Best, > Naomi > > > -- > Naomi Fox > Center for American Indian Languages > University of Utah > > Quoting Mia Kalish : > > I guess the upshot of all this is that I don't think people should be made > to feel bad because they can't afford high-end equipment. > > > > I loved Keola's musician's analysis. He's right about the Dolby hiss :-) > > > > And I agree that there are lots of recording options. But I think also what > has come out of this discussion is that there are lots of considerations, > lots of available technology, lots of things you can do with the recordings, > and lots of people who will use the technology and the recordings. > > > > Keola mentioned sampling frequencies: # of bits is related to sampling size; > it is also related to how fast materials will download. I've noticed that a > lot of the sites I see don't seem to worry about how long it takes a sound > to make it down to the listener. People also use Windows Media format which > is InCreDibly SLOW. . . . (aaargh). Every time to open a sound, it has to > open that high-graph interface. . . . Recently, I couldn't download the new > Windows Media Player because there was something wrong with the signing in > the internal configuration. So I could hear the Welsh on the BBS site. . . . > > > > Mia > > > > _____ > > From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] > On Behalf Of Susan Penfield > Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 11:42 AM > To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > Subject: Re: [ILAT] Affordable digital recorder advice > > > > Mia, > > I couldn't agree more, because we have found all of the same > conditions/recommendations. But the use of high quality equipment, in the > field, still yields much better and much longer lasting recordings and > should be considered. We had some problems just this weekend with a high end > recorder, just because it was not initially easy to use. That led us to > rethink what equipment is best and/or how much more training is needed. > Guess all I'm saying is that there are lots of options now (I have also used > your same recorder) and that making more of an investment in high quality is > worth it in the long run. We are also in the business of creating tons of > stuff for the community and are putting that responsibility into the hands > of community members -- so I really understand what you are saying. > Nevertheless, that makes the quality of the recordings even more valuable > and we should all be striving not just for lots of stuff but for the best > possible stuff, given the recording conditions. > > Best, > > Susan > > > > On 1/31/06, Mia Kalish MiaKalish at learningforpeople.us> > wrote: > > Hi, Susan, > > > > I didn't read the whole main thread, but I thought I was perceiving a > recommendation for "recording studio quality" for archival recording. > Bringing people into a sound controlled studio is very different from > working in communities where we create tons and tons of material for use by > the community. > > > > When we were doing this initially 4-5 years ago now, Depree and I created a > whole checklist of things we wanted to be able to do, with a focus of > working in the community. For us, the considerations ranked approximately as > follows: > > 1. Elder comfort > > 2. Affordable by community members > > 3. High quality recording > > 4. Convenience > > 5. High portability > > 6. Battery-powered > > 7. Ease of use, for us & for community members > > > > Our goal was to work with communities to show them how they could take a > major hand in designing and developing their own resources. As such, many of > our considerations incorporated the needs of the Community in our assessment > of recorders. Sophisticated, expensive recorders wouldn't be appropriate; > special recording rooms and devices would take us out of the community and > would also be difficult to use in places where people live. We didn't want > to use our hosts' electricity; for some people, this is a financial > hardship, even for small requirements. We were also prepared for places > where there is no electricity; or where the travel to and from the locale is > challenging, as for example, the path down the Grand Canyon to the Havapai. > So we included all these considerations in our analysis. > > > > Mia > > _____ > > From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto: )'; return true;" href="javascript:open_compose_win('to=%3E&thismailbox=INBOX');">> ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Susan Penfield > Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 7:59 AM > To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > > Subject: Re: [ILAT] Affordable digital recorder advice > > > > Mia, Jan and all, > Just a thought here -- It seems to me that we might not want to distinguish > between the uses for revitalization and documentation. Good quality is > needed on both fronts since they really play into each other. I think that > ease of use is important (for some of us less techie folks), and certainly > cost is an issue for many, but getting good archival quality doesn't > necessarily mean giving up all the other things Mia referred > and,increasingly, those of us who do revitalization work need to be mindful > that many of those recordings may end up as the only documentation of the > language. > Best, > Susan > > On 1/31/06, Jan Tucker < jtucker at starband.net jtucker at starband.net> > > wrote: > > Thank you all for the information you provided about affordable digital > recorders. I'm looking at this one right now. > > > > Yes, I'm using it for language revitalization, and would like the best > possible quality and least degredation. I have about 100 to spend on the > devise and the accessories such as a microphone. > > > > > > > Olympus VN-960PC Digital Voice Recorder, with LCD Display - Built-in 128MB > Flash Memory and PC Link > > > Any further comments would be welcome. Here is a link with specifications. > > > > > > > sku=389757&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation#Recording> > http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&s > ku=389757&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation#Recording > > > > > In recording format they say ADPCM (Adaptive Differential Pulse code > Modulation)(WAV on PC). Can I assume then this is a .wav format recorder? > > > Thank you, > > > > Jan > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Nicholas Thieberger" < thien at UNIMELB.EDU.AU> > thien at UNIMELB.EDU.AU > > > To: < ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU> ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > > > Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 2:30 PM > > Subject: Re: [ILAT] Affordable digital recorder advice > > > > > David, > > > > If it does not record in WAV format then it is not archival. |If it > > records in a compressed form like WMA, mp3, or others, and then > > converts to WAV it means the actual recording has already lost lots > > of the signal. The m-audio microtrack records to WAV and is around > > US$300 and is not too bad, it has some problem with preamps. > > > > Nick > > > > At 11:17 AM -0800 30/1/06, David Lewis wrote: > >>Hi Nicholas, > >>I checked out the first website mentioned and they wrote this as to > >>an archival quality format "For audio, use WAV > >>< http://emeld.org/school/glossary.html#wav > format." > >>Coincidentally, I was at Best Buy last night and looked over their > >>selection and chose the lower end of the higher end devices, the > >>WS-100. It is supposed to transfer directly into Microsoft WMA > >>format to the computer. I'm pretty sure I can then convert it to WAV > >>format either with Windows Media player or ITunes. Any advice here? > >>the device cost $100. the next higher device was $149.00. > >>David Lewis > >> > >>Nicholas Thieberger wrote: > >> > >>>--> > >>>Just to add to this thread from an archival perspective. If you are > >>>recording unique things that you want to be available to > >>>generations to come then you need to think about the format of what > >>>you are recording and whether it will endure. Olympus and other > >>>small (and cheap, unfortunately) recorders do not record in > >>>archival formats. > >>> > >>>For a summary of the issues around longterm storage of recorded > >>>material and endangered languages you could look at > >>>http://emeld.org/school/index.html. > >>> > >>>There was a discussion of recorders on the RNLD list and if you go > >>>to the archive of the RNLD list, here: > >>> > http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?S1=resource-network-linguistic-d > iversity > diversity> > >>>and search for 'flash' and 'recorder' you will get some useful info > >>> > >>>A summary item is here: http://linguistlist.org/issues/16/16-2710.html > >>> > >>>All the best, > >>> > >>>Nick Thieberger > >>> > >>>At 7:36 AM -0700 30/1/06, Mia Kalish wrote: > >>> > >>>>Jan & all, > >>>> > >>>>I have been using Olympus digital recorders for years now. They have 3 > >>>>quality settings (low, medium, & high) and 2 recording modes (one for > >>>>meetings, one for one-to-one). The ones I buy are about $99. I recently > got > >>>>a Sony refurb unit for $32 at e-cost.com . > >>>> > >>>>I didn't read the thread about recorders, because I'm really happy with > >>>>mine, and I had shared about it before. > >>> > >>>>Mia > >>> > >>> > >>>-- > >>> > >>>Project Manager > >>>PARADISEC > >>>Department of Linguistics and Applied Linguistics > >>>University of Melbourne, Vic 3010 > >>>Australia > >>> > >>> nicholas.thieberger at paradisec.org.au > nicholas.thieberger at paradisec.org.au> > >>>Ph 61 (0)3 8344 5185 > >>> > >>>PARADISEC > >>>Pacific And Regional Archive for Digital Sources in Endangered Cultures > >>>http://paradisec.org.au > > > > > -- > > Project Manager > > PARADISEC > > Department of Linguistics and Applied Linguistics > > University of Melbourne, Vic 3010 > > Australia > > > > nicholas.thieberger at paradisec.org.au> > nicholas.thieberger at paradisec.org.au > > Ph 61 (0)3 8344 5185 > > > > PARADISEC > > Pacific And Regional Archive for Digital Sources in Endangered Cultures > > http://paradisec.org.au > > > > > > > -- > Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. > > Department of English > Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics > and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program > American Indian Language Development Institute > Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 > > > > > -- > Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D. > > Department of English > Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics > and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program > American Indian Language Development Institute > Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: