From wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU  Thu May  1 16:18:47 2008
From: wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU (William J Poser)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 12:18:47 -0400
Subject: Tibetan
Message-ID: <THU.1.MAY.2008.121847.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

The article: http://www.cctv.com/english/special/todaytibet/20080428/107350.shtml
on how wonderfully things are going for Tibetan is Chinese government
propaganda. The reality is that China is engaged in cultural genocide
in occupied Tibet as part of which it promotes Chinese at the expense
of Tibetan. Here is a recent Reuters article in the Vancouver Sun:
http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=9a994eb2-e9e8-45cf-ab0e-88de470367fc

You can download the Free Tibet report here: http://www.freetibet.org/files/Forked(1).pdf

Bill


From rzs at WILDBLUE.NET  Thu May  1 20:21:48 2008
From: rzs at WILDBLUE.NET (Richard Smith)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 13:21:48 -0700
Subject: Tibetan
In-Reply-To: <20080501161847.A5222B2482@lorax.ldc.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <THU.1.MAY.2008.132148.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

common threads of conquest

first stage: Heavy hand
- a show of force breaking down the heart of a people group
by forcibly replacing things indigenous with the unfamiliar.
language,ceremony,government,and even rights.
assimilate the mind,take the children from parents
for re-education.
( Chinese Gov. is still at this heavy hand stage in Tibet)

final stage: Soft Hand
Conquerors  eventually encourage "revival" "celebration" of
indigenous culture . Assimilated ones are no longer a "threat"
when  the mind views its own culture as reduced
to mere color, decor,food, a garnish...a tourist attraction.

The Han Chinese politically conquered
the indigenous minority people of Southern China in the 1800's.
 Now Chinese government wants to revive "culture".
It encourages minorities to dance, sing, hold ceremony
perform as tourist attractions on stages, in restaurants
and even in reconstructed tourist villages outside Kunming.
Families there are even allowed more than one child.
And there is a special university for minority students.
Kunming, I have visited and seen it's show of "culture".

I hope all indigenous leaders are aware of these tactics.
"culture" defined by conquerors is highly questionable

Richard Zane Smith




On 5/1/08 9:18 AM, "William J Poser" <wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU> wrote:

> The article: 
> http://www.cctv.com/english/special/todaytibet/20080428/107350.shtml
> on how wonderfully things are going for Tibetan is Chinese government
> propaganda. The reality is that China is engaged in cultural genocide
> in occupied Tibet as part of which it promotes Chinese at the expense
> of Tibetan. Here is a recent Reuters article in the Vancouver Sun:
> http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=9a994eb2-e9e8-45cf-ab0e-
> 88de470367fc
> 
> You can download the Free Tibet report here:
> http://www.freetibet.org/files/Forked(1).pdf
> 
> Bill


From phonosemantics at EARTHLINK.NET  Thu May  1 19:03:15 2008
From: phonosemantics at EARTHLINK.NET (jess tauber)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 14:03:15 -0500
Subject: Tibetan
Message-ID: <THU.1.MAY.2008.140315.0500.PHONOSEMANTICS@EARTHLINK.NET>

Wasn't California visited by Chinese treasure fleets long before Columbus or the Vikings came to North America?

So when are the Han going to claim that THIS continent is historically part of China?

Jess Tauber
phonosemantics at earthlink.net


From aidan at USYD.EDU.AU  Thu May  1 22:37:09 2008
From: aidan at USYD.EDU.AU (Aidan Wilson)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 08:37:09 +1000
Subject: Tibetan
In-Reply-To: <23548316.1209668596347.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hound.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <FRI.2.MAY.2008.083709.1000.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Well, a British historian hypothesised that a fleet of Chinese junks 
made it throughout south-east Asia, around Arica, into the Meditteranean 
and across the Atlantic about 50 years before Columbus, but I believe 
that his theory was pretty comprehensively refuted. Not sure though 
about any earlier expeditions across the Pacific; would have to have 
been rather early on to predate the Norse, right?

-Aidan

--
Aidan Wilson
Paradisec

On 2/05/2008 5:03 AM, jess tauber wrote:
> Wasn't California visited by Chinese treasure fleets long before Columbus or the Vikings came to North America?
>
> So when are the Han going to claim that THIS continent is historically part of China?
>
> Jess Tauber
> phonosemantics at earthlink.net
>   


From wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU  Thu May  1 23:03:31 2008
From: wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU (William J Poser)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 19:03:31 -0400
Subject: Tibetan
In-Reply-To: <481A4615.9000108@usyd.edu.au>
Message-ID: <THU.1.MAY.2008.190331.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

The hypothesis that a "Treasure Fleet" reached North America prior to
Columbus is based on the explorations of Admiral Zheng He and is
most recently defended in the book "1421" by Gavin Menzies.
The book has not been favorably received by scholars. My
own (quite negative) comments on the book are at:
http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/000409.html
and: http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/003169.html.

Some people have taken the earlier Chinese accounts of voyages to Peng Lai
as describing travel to the Americas, but these accounts are vague and
almost certainly in large part mythological and insofar as they do
describe real places, there is no particular reason to think that
they are in the Americas. (If you have read the Japanese Taketori
Monogatari "The Tale of the Bamboo Gatherer", which exists in
English children's versions, the magical place called Horai in
Japanese is based on the Chinese legends of Peng Lai.)

There is, on the other hand, good evidence that material from
Chinese and Japanese wrecks reached the Pacific Coast. It is
conceivable that people may have survived and also reached
the Pacific Coast alive, but if so, there is no record of it,
and no reason to believe that they ever made it home again.
 


From phonosemantics at EARTHLINK.NET  Thu May  1 23:45:49 2008
From: phonosemantics at EARTHLINK.NET (jess tauber)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 19:45:49 -0400
Subject: Tibetan
Message-ID: <THU.1.MAY.2008.194549.0400.PHONOSEMANTICS@EARTHLINK.NET>

Tone languages in the Americas- CHINAntec! It was so obvious, even a cave-man could see it....

Jess Tauber
phonosemantics at earthlink.net


From rzs at WILDBLUE.NET  Fri May  2 15:11:52 2008
From: rzs at WILDBLUE.NET (Richard Smith)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 08:11:52 -0700
Subject: Tibetan
In-Reply-To: <20080501230331.29776B245D@lorax.ldc.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <FRI.2.MAY.2008.081152.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Even after historical accounts are straightened out
The USA still maintains the yearly celebration of "Columbus Day",
He didn't even have to land on this continent to get credit.
The Chinese might actually possess myths of equal validity.

Doctrines of Discovery are pretty fascinating studies.
They really are a history of languages (the mind)

-Richard

> Some people have taken the earlier Chinese accounts of voyages to Peng Lai
> as describing travel to the Americas, but these accounts are vague and
> almost certainly in large part mythological and insofar as they do
> describe real places, there is no particular reason to think that
> they are in the Americas.


From Dmark916 at AOL.COM  Fri May  2 16:55:36 2008
From: Dmark916 at AOL.COM (Dmark916 at AOL.COM)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 12:55:36 EDT
Subject: Tibetan
Message-ID: <FRI.2.MAY.2008.125536.EDT.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Just to add a little diversity here, there are also the oral histories of  
the Garifuna people of the Caribbean that tell of their original arrival in the  
Western Hemisphere from western Africa in the 1300's...intermarriage with  
indigenous peoples of the area and migrations around the Caribbean. Lending some 
 interesting linguistic clues, the language spoken by the women is different 
from  that spoken by the men.
 
Dorothy Martinez
Retired Educator



**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family 
favorites at AOL Food.      
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)
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From wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU  Fri May  2 19:42:22 2008
From: wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU (William J Poser)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 15:42:22 -0400
Subject: Tibetan
In-Reply-To: <ce3.2dab6bf0.354ca188@aol.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.2.MAY.2008.154222.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

I'm familiar with the amazing history of the Garifuna within the Caribbean
but have never heard of their arrival from Western Africa in the 1300s.
As far as I know, their African ancestors were plantation slaves brought
to the Caribbean by Europeans. Where is the story about an earlier
migration from Africa?

Bill


From Dmark916 at AOL.COM  Fri May  2 20:39:34 2008
From: Dmark916 at AOL.COM (Dmark916 at AOL.COM)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 16:39:34 EDT
Subject: Tibetan
Message-ID: <FRI.2.MAY.2008.163934.EDT.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

My primary source, among others, is from material of the Gulisi Garifuna  
Museum located in the Chuluhadiwa Garinagu Monument Park, Dangriga (Stann Creek  
District) Belize, Central America. The e-mail address (a couple of years old) 
is  _gulisi at btl.net_ (mailto:gulisi at btl.net) 
This informative little museum presents the oral history and migrations of  
the people, and is well worth a visit.
 
Dorothy Martinez



**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family 
favorites at AOL Food.      
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)
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From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Sat May  3 05:32:40 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 22:32:40 -0700
Subject: from SIL 15, Flagstaff AZ
Message-ID: <FRI.2.MAY.2008.223240.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Greetings,

I just finished the first day of the Stabilizing Indigenous Languages (SIL) 15. 
A very inspiring and heart felt conference attended by mostly indigenous
community language practitioners, teachers, and advocates who are engaged in
language revitalization work.

SIL
http://jan.ucc.nau.edu/~jar/SIL9brochure.html

A number of sessions today (and perhaps tomorrow as well) showed how digital
video/film is being used both as a documentation and revitalization tool in the
indigenous communities.  Technology is also playing key role for a number of
communities.  But I must add that language immersion is still widely considered
as THE primary method(s) for creating and sustaining new speakers of a heritage
language.

Anyway, this quick note is not really meant as a review but just a reminder of
all the great and impressive revitalization work that is happening today...in
spite of all the tremendous odds many communities are facing.

Phil Cash Cash
UofA


From anguksuar at YAHOO.COM  Sat May  3 15:10:26 2008
From: anguksuar at YAHOO.COM (Richard LaFortune)
Date: Sat, 3 May 2008 08:10:26 -0700
Subject: from SIL 15, Flagstaff AZ
In-Reply-To: <20080502223240.86ti8ko4k4c0gg0o@www.email.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <SAT.3.MAY.2008.081026.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

I wish they'd stick with the acronym SILC (Stabilizing
Indigenous Languages Conference) rather than risking
shortening SIL, which tends to conflate it with an
organization with a notorious history.
Richard LaFortune

--- phil cash cash <cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU> wrote:

> Greetings,
> 
> I just finished the first day of the Stabilizing
> Indigenous Languages (SIL) 15. 
> A very inspiring and heart felt conference attended
> by mostly indigenous
> community language practitioners, teachers, and
> advocates who are engaged in
> language revitalization work.
> 
> SIL
> http://jan.ucc.nau.edu/~jar/SIL9brochure.html
> 
> A number of sessions today (and perhaps tomorrow as
> well) showed how digital
> video/film is being used both as a documentation and
> revitalization tool in the
> indigenous communities.  Technology is also playing
> key role for a number of
> communities.  But I must add that language immersion
> is still widely considered
> as THE primary method(s) for creating and sustaining
> new speakers of a heritage
> language.
> 
> Anyway, this quick note is not really meant as a
> review but just a reminder of
> all the great and impressive revitalization work
> that is happening today...in
> spite of all the tremendous odds many communities
> are facing.
> 
> Phil Cash Cash
> UofA
> 



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ


From wiigwaas at MSN.COM  Sun May  4 04:07:33 2008
From: wiigwaas at MSN.COM (Earl Otchingwanigan)
Date: Sat, 3 May 2008 21:07:33 -0700
Subject: from SIL 15, Flagstaff AZ
Message-ID: <SAT.3.MAY.2008.210733.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Hear, Hear!, well said....
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Richard LaFortune<mailto:anguksuar at YAHOO.COM> 
  To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU<mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU> 
  Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 8:10 AM
  Subject: Re: [ILAT] from SIL 15, Flagstaff AZ


  I wish they'd stick with the acronym SILC (Stabilizing
  Indigenous Languages Conference) rather than risking
  shortening SIL, which tends to conflate it with an
  organization with a notorious history.
  Richard LaFortune

  --- phil cash cash <cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU<mailto:cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU>> wrote:

  > Greetings,
  > 
  > I just finished the first day of the Stabilizing
  > Indigenous Languages (SIL) 15. 
  > A very inspiring and heart felt conference attended
  > by mostly indigenous
  > community language practitioners, teachers, and
  > advocates who are engaged in
  > language revitalization work.
  > 
  > SIL
  > http://jan.ucc.nau.edu/~jar/SIL9brochure.html<http://jan.ucc.nau.edu/~jar/SIL9brochure.html>
  > 
  > A number of sessions today (and perhaps tomorrow as
  > well) showed how digital
  > video/film is being used both as a documentation and
  > revitalization tool in the
  > indigenous communities.  Technology is also playing
  > key role for a number of
  > communities.  But I must add that language immersion
  > is still widely considered
  > as THE primary method(s) for creating and sustaining
  > new speakers of a heritage
  > language.
  > 
  > Anyway, this quick note is not really meant as a
  > review but just a reminder of
  > all the great and impressive revitalization work
  > that is happening today...in
  > spite of all the tremendous odds many communities
  > are facing.
  > 
  > Phil Cash Cash
  > UofA
  > 



        ____________________________________________________________________________________
  Be a better friend, newshound, and 
  know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ<http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ>
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From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Mon May  5 17:12:16 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 10:12:16 -0700
Subject: The Linguists: Searching for Endangered Languages Around the
 World (fwd link)
Message-ID: <MON.5.MAY.2008.101216.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

The WIP
May 3, 2008

The Linguists: Searching for Endangered Languages Around the World

Jessica Mosby
- USA -

Linguistics, the study of languages, is generally not interesting for people who
are not linguists. Filming the daily work of a linguist – reading and listening
– is an idea better suited for a sleep aid than a 70 minute documentary film.
But The Linguists, which follows the work of Dr. K. David Harrison and Dr.
Gregory Anderson, should not be written off as esoteric. The film’s stars are
more like Indiana Jones-style adventurers traveling to remote locations in
search of undocumented and dying languages than stodgy academics.

Access full article below:
http://thewip.net/contributors/2008/05/the_linguists_searching_for_en.html


From anguksuar at YAHOO.COM  Mon May  5 18:06:43 2008
From: anguksuar at YAHOO.COM (Richard LaFortune)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 11:06:43 -0700
Subject: re SIL
In-Reply-To: <BAY111-DAV8347EF5294DE0A27583A2D1D40@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <MON.5.MAY.2008.110643.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

I forwarded this earlier to Rudy and rec'd a response.
 Some people would assert that some evangelical
translations efforts have advanced applied
-not theoretical- linguistics...except First Speakers
are required for applied fieldwork and other tasks of
science.  And the early and emerging information about
these outfits over the past couple of decades
convincingly alleges that these reactionary
denominational translators were all about neutalizing
(and you can interpret that word in its most sobering
sense) the very people who were first speakers,
because of fights over natural and political
resources.  There is no valid argument for any
government surveillance that wipes out a quarter
million Native first speakers; there is no balance in
which a list of languages outweighs the lives of
sovereign people in our ancestral domains by force of 
violence.  My own family are leading heirarchy in one
of the minority evangelical denominations in North
America, so I know from missions; and I'm a Native
person whose lineage is straght-up medicine people as
well.  I was raised not to express an opinion unless
it was considered and useful in some way.  But
that's...

Just an opinion
Anguksuar (Richard LaFortune)


> A lot of people in the field disagree with you Rudy-
> with all due respect- folks from the aeryies of the
> Academy, to the corn fields and jungles where SIL
and
> New Tribes Mission have operated over the decades.
> This includes people who have spoken to me
anecdotally
> and have no particular political axes to grind.  
>
> I suggest interested people on ILAT take a look at
> "Thy Will Be Done:  The Conquest of the Amazon :
> Nelson Rockefeller and Evangelism in the Age of Oi";
> and "The Missionaries", by Norman Lewis.  To use the
> phrase 'without substantiation' suggests that a
great
> deal of scholarship and actual substantiation from
> international government agencies, to personal
> communications by people of regard.  Who cares if
they
> have done important things in linguistics - Hitler
> built nice highways.
> Richard



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
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know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ


From rzs at WILDBLUE.NET  Mon May  5 21:28:56 2008
From: rzs at WILDBLUE.NET (Richard Smith)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 14:28:56 -0700
Subject: re SIL
In-Reply-To: <477135.11385.qm@web43137.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <MON.5.MAY.2008.142856.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

kweh Richard LaFortune,

I sure agree with alot of what you share here.
Some people can't seem to see it.
The Evangelical/Catholic Christian views things through a window
which insists on some major absolutes usually very different than the
paradigms of the people groups they go to "save".

Giving benefit of the doubt that most are basicly wholesome people,
an Evangelical is not necessarily and consciously intent on destroying a
culture. In fact culture and even language is a side issue completely.
He might actually love those who he views as "ignorant of God" and care
deeply in his heart for souls he understands as condemned to eternal
damnation.
>From his paradigm window, these natives are children of "the fall" of
a literal Adam and Eve, and they need to be rescued at any cost.
I think Its important for us to understand what compels missionary work,
even if their view of reality is MAJOR different than our own.

An example with own ancestors i've used before: Jesuit priests would
secretly baptize Wendat children dying of small pox when their parents
weren't looking.When they were caught doing it, parents were horrified and
threw the priests out of the longhouses in fear that priests were now
finishing their children off with witchcraft and mumbling strange curses.
Its possible BOTH parents and priests deeply cared for the dying ones,
but these priests were strange newcomers, and were acting out of line.
Even if they wrote happily in their journals about how they saved dying
children from hell that day...    to my own people they acted wrongly.

Language is their vehicle for conversion of people to their own paradigm.
Wycliffe wants to "reduce" all earths languages to writing so that people
can read the Christian Bible in their own language. Its inherent with many
Christian beliefs that when "all have heard"   Christ will return to earth.
All this passion of foreigners coming to save souls from "sin" and hellfire
and convert the lost to a middle-eastern based paradigm has a cost
and weakens alot of  very important traditions of our people
but strangely enough it has one bright side. Languages are preserved and
even some pretty complicated thought is recorded.

I guess maybe i'm trying to be positive,

Richard Zane Smith
Wyandotte Oklahoma 



On 5/5/08 11:06 AM, "Richard LaFortune" <anguksuar at YAHOO.COM> wrote:

> I forwarded this earlier to Rudy and rec'd a response.
>  Some people would assert that some evangelical
> translations efforts have advanced applied
> -not theoretical- linguistics...except First Speakers
> are required for applied fieldwork and other tasks of
> science.  And the early and emerging information about
> these outfits over the past couple of decades
> convincingly alleges that these reactionary
> denominational translators were all about neutalizing
> (and you can interpret that word in its most sobering
> sense) the very people who were first speakers,
> because of fights over natural and political
> resources.  There is no valid argument for any
> government surveillance that wipes out a quarter
> million Native first speakers; there is no balance in
> which a list of languages outweighs the lives of
> sovereign people in our ancestral domains by force of
> violence.  My own family are leading heirarchy in one
> of the minority evangelical denominations in North
> America, so I know from missions; and I'm a Native
> person whose lineage is straght-up medicine people as
> well.  I was raised not to express an opinion unless
> it was considered and useful in some way.  But
> that's...
> 
> Just an opinion
> Anguksuar (Richard LaFortune)
> 
> 
>> A lot of people in the field disagree with you Rudy-
>> with all due respect- folks from the aeryies of the
>> Academy, to the corn fields and jungles where SIL
> and
>> New Tribes Mission have operated over the decades.
>> This includes people who have spoken to me
> anecdotally
>> and have no particular political axes to grind.
>> 
>> I suggest interested people on ILAT take a look at
>> "Thy Will Be Done:  The Conquest of the Amazon :
>> Nelson Rockefeller and Evangelism in the Age of Oi";
>> and "The Missionaries", by Norman Lewis.  To use the
>> phrase 'without substantiation' suggests that a
> great
>> deal of scholarship and actual substantiation from
>> international government agencies, to personal
>> communications by people of regard.  Who cares if
> they
>> have done important things in linguistics - Hitler
>> built nice highways.
>> Richard
> 
> 
> 
>       
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> ______
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ


From CMcMillan at WVC.EDU  Mon May  5 20:11:22 2008
From: CMcMillan at WVC.EDU (McMillan, Carol)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 13:11:22 -0700
Subject: Crossing the Pacific
In-Reply-To: A<481A4615.9000108@usyd.edu.au>
Message-ID: <MON.5.MAY.2008.131122.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

   As a biological anthropologist by training, and being wary of the
European penchant for wanting to have "discovered" everything, and
having read that even geneticists now say that the aboriginal peoples of
Australia had to have had boats at least 40,000 years ago, and having
looked at the people of Rapa Nui (Easter Island) vs. other Pacific
Islanders, and hearing about the Hawaiian sailing canoes that have
recently traveled to Alaska and returned, (and . . . and . . . ) I
believe it's time for us all to admit that indigenous people have been
traveling by sea for many thousands of years, back and forth between
continents.  I'm growing a bit weary of all the who-came-first debates.
Perhaps it's all worth it if European and European-decent scholars in
general become less ethnocentric in their world views.  (I'm Scottish, I
can say that.)  Maybe the debate shouldn't be about who had the
technology and ability to cross large bodies of water, but who was
motivated to do it in order to rape/pillage/plunder vs. those who went
to trade and/or visit with others.  That focus might put Columbus and
others into categories more appropriate to their conduct.

Sorry, I just had to weigh in here.

Carol McMillan


From MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US  Mon May  5 20:48:09 2008
From: MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US (Mia Kalish)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 14:48:09 -0600
Subject: Crossing the Pacific
In-Reply-To: <1129FD8A7A8E0D418E469D28C1700AFB4397DF@ad-ex-wvcmail.wvc.edu>
Message-ID: <MON.5.MAY.2008.144809.0600.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

I'm with Carol. :-)


-----Original Message-----
From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU]
On Behalf Of McMillan, Carol
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 2:11 PM
To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: [ILAT] Crossing the Pacific

   As a biological anthropologist by training, and being wary of the
European penchant for wanting to have "discovered" everything, and
having read that even geneticists now say that the aboriginal peoples of
Australia had to have had boats at least 40,000 years ago, and having
looked at the people of Rapa Nui (Easter Island) vs. other Pacific
Islanders, and hearing about the Hawaiian sailing canoes that have
recently traveled to Alaska and returned, (and . . . and . . . ) I
believe it's time for us all to admit that indigenous people have been
traveling by sea for many thousands of years, back and forth between
continents.  I'm growing a bit weary of all the who-came-first debates.
Perhaps it's all worth it if European and European-decent scholars in
general become less ethnocentric in their world views.  (I'm Scottish, I
can say that.)  Maybe the debate shouldn't be about who had the
technology and ability to cross large bodies of water, but who was
motivated to do it in order to rape/pillage/plunder vs. those who went
to trade and/or visit with others.  That focus might put Columbus and
others into categories more appropriate to their conduct.

Sorry, I just had to weigh in here.

Carol McMillan


From anguksuar at YAHOO.COM  Mon May  5 22:10:05 2008
From: anguksuar at YAHOO.COM (Richard LaFortune)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 15:10:05 -0700
Subject: pacific storytelling
In-Reply-To: <1129FD8A7A8E0D418E469D28C1700AFB4397DF@ad-ex-wvcmail.wvc.edu>
Message-ID: <MON.5.MAY.2008.151005.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

our elders have always said that the Yupiit have been
back and forth to Hawai-i for thousands of years. 
That's why our dance styles (essentially,
storytelling) as well as our spiritual traditions are
similar.
-R

--- "McMillan, Carol" <CMcMillan at WVC.EDU> wrote:

>    As a biological anthropologist by training, and
> being wary of the
> European penchant for wanting to have "discovered"
> everything, and
> having read that even geneticists now say that the
> aboriginal peoples of
> Australia had to have had boats at least 40,000
> years ago, and having
> looked at the people of Rapa Nui (Easter Island) vs.
> other Pacific
> Islanders, and hearing about the Hawaiian sailing
> canoes that have
> recently traveled to Alaska and returned, (and . . .
> and . . . ) I
> believe it's time for us all to admit that
> indigenous people have been
> traveling by sea for many thousands of years, back
> and forth between
> continents.  I'm growing a bit weary of all the
> who-came-first debates.
> Perhaps it's all worth it if European and
> European-decent scholars in
> general become less ethnocentric in their world
> views.  (I'm Scottish, I
> can say that.)  Maybe the debate shouldn't be about
> who had the
> technology and ability to cross large bodies of
> water, but who was
> motivated to do it in order to rape/pillage/plunder
> vs. those who went
> to trade and/or visit with others.  That focus might
> put Columbus and
> others into categories more appropriate to their
> conduct.
> 
> Sorry, I just had to weigh in here.
> 
> Carol McMillan
> 



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ


From daryn at ARWARBUKARL.COM.AU  Tue May  6 00:46:33 2008
From: daryn at ARWARBUKARL.COM.AU (Daryn McKenny)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 10:46:33 +1000
Subject: Crossing the Pacific
Message-ID: <TUE.6.MAY.2008.104633.1000.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Hi,

I am sure you have all seen this article then, it is an old one:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/430944.stm

I have just attended ILATC and I just felt like I was at home, an amazing place with amazing people on amazing country, just like home. I know we are related, Aboriginal people connect with Aboriginal people.

But,we must have had really big trees to make our bark canoes back then though.


Regards
 
Daryn McKenny
 
Arwarbukarl Cultural Resource Association Inc.

Read our Indigenous Language BLOG at http://www.arwarbukarl.net.au/blog/
 


-----Original Message-----
From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of McMillan, Carol
Sent: Tuesday, 6 May 2008 6:11 AM
To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: [ILAT] Crossing the Pacific

   As a biological anthropologist by training, and being wary of the
European penchant for wanting to have "discovered" everything, and
having read that even geneticists now say that the aboriginal peoples of
Australia had to have had boats at least 40,000 years ago, and having
looked at the people of Rapa Nui (Easter Island) vs. other Pacific
Islanders, and hearing about the Hawaiian sailing canoes that have
recently traveled to Alaska and returned, (and . . . and . . . ) I
believe it's time for us all to admit that indigenous people have been
traveling by sea for many thousands of years, back and forth between
continents.  I'm growing a bit weary of all the who-came-first debates.
Perhaps it's all worth it if European and European-decent scholars in
general become less ethnocentric in their world views.  (I'm Scottish, I
can say that.)  Maybe the debate shouldn't be about who had the
technology and ability to cross large bodies of water, but who was
motivated to do it in order to rape/pillage/plunder vs. those who went
to trade and/or visit with others.  That focus might put Columbus and
others into categories more appropriate to their conduct.

Sorry, I just had to weigh in here.

Carol McMillan


From jtucker at STARBAND.NET  Tue May  6 01:45:20 2008
From: jtucker at STARBAND.NET (Jan Tucker)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 21:45:20 -0400
Subject: re SIL
Message-ID: <MON.5.MAY.2008.214520.0400.JTUCKER@STARBAND.NET>

Richard,
    I was at a "primitive skills" event last weekend. I was listening to 
what I thought was a group of men who were "End Timers". They were fired up 
with the "word" in their flint knapping circle. I was sitting quietly sewing 
a deer hide to smoke in a demonstration. Anyway, I let it out I was an 
anthropologist and spent the rest of the weekend being interrogated about my 
beliefs. It was tough, my point though is that I hadn't realized how 
important the phrase "In the beginning was the Word" to these Southern 
Christians until this weekend.  It made me realize why the Bible is so 
important to this group, and realize why the missionaries have become 
linguists, and translated the bible into so many different languages. Maybe 
they are becoming like their God, being the first to share the "Word". Their 
zealot like enthusiasm seems to suggest this to me. I agree after talking to 
these people with what you said here

>From his paradigm window, these natives are children of "the fall" of
> a literal Adam and Eve, and they need to be rescued at any cost.
> I think Its important for us to understand what compels missionary work,
> even if their view of reality is MAJOR different than our own.

I heard this same kind of thinking about the unsaved, and a story about 
someone (Adam or Adam's brother???) taking a wife from the land of Nod or 
something. Wish I'd played closer attention now. The person was suggesting 
the land of Nod was populated by other people or maybe the  unsaved people. 
All this was suggested with questions and seemingly open for interpretation.

Understanding the perspective of the Christian missionaries "paradigm 
window" is useful to defend against the assimilations pressures that often 
begun with adopting their religion.

Jan Tucker
Applied Cultural Anthropologist
Liberal Arts Department
Lake City Community College
Lake City, FL

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Richard Smith" <rzs at WILDBLUE.NET>
To: <ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 5:28 PM
Subject: Re: [ILAT] re SIL


> kweh Richard LaFortune,
>
> I sure agree with alot of what you share here.
> Some people can't seem to see it.
> The Evangelical/Catholic Christian views things through a window
> which insists on some major absolutes usually very different than the
> paradigms of the people groups they go to "save".
>
> Giving benefit of the doubt that most are basicly wholesome people,
> an Evangelical is not necessarily and consciously intent on destroying a
> culture. In fact culture and even language is a side issue completely.
> He might actually love those who he views as "ignorant of God" and care
> deeply in his heart for souls he understands as condemned to eternal
> damnation.
> From his paradigm window, these natives are children of "the fall" of
> a literal Adam and Eve, and they need to be rescued at any cost.
> I think Its important for us to understand what compels missionary work,
> even if their view of reality is MAJOR different than our own.
>
> An example with own ancestors i've used before: Jesuit priests would
> secretly baptize Wendat children dying of small pox when their parents
> weren't looking.When they were caught doing it, parents were horrified and
> threw the priests out of the longhouses in fear that priests were now
> finishing their children off with witchcraft and mumbling strange curses.
> Its possible BOTH parents and priests deeply cared for the dying ones,
> but these priests were strange newcomers, and were acting out of line.
> Even if they wrote happily in their journals about how they saved dying
> children from hell that day...    to my own people they acted wrongly.
>
> Language is their vehicle for conversion of people to their own paradigm.
> Wycliffe wants to "reduce" all earths languages to writing so that people
> can read the Christian Bible in their own language. Its inherent with many
> Christian beliefs that when "all have heard"   Christ will return to 
> earth.
> All this passion of foreigners coming to save souls from "sin" and 
> hellfire
> and convert the lost to a middle-eastern based paradigm has a cost
> and weakens alot of  very important traditions of our people
> but strangely enough it has one bright side. Languages are preserved and
> even some pretty complicated thought is recorded.
>
> I guess maybe i'm trying to be positive,
>
> Richard Zane Smith
> Wyandotte Oklahoma
>
>
>
> On 5/5/08 11:06 AM, "Richard LaFortune" <anguksuar at YAHOO.COM> wrote:
>
>> I forwarded this earlier to Rudy and rec'd a response.
>>  Some people would assert that some evangelical
>> translations efforts have advanced applied
>> -not theoretical- linguistics...except First Speakers
>> are required for applied fieldwork and other tasks of
>> science.  And the early and emerging information about
>> these outfits over the past couple of decades
>> convincingly alleges that these reactionary
>> denominational translators were all about neutalizing
>> (and you can interpret that word in its most sobering
>> sense) the very people who were first speakers,
>> because of fights over natural and political
>> resources.  There is no valid argument for any
>> government surveillance that wipes out a quarter
>> million Native first speakers; there is no balance in
>> which a list of languages outweighs the lives of
>> sovereign people in our ancestral domains by force of
>> violence.  My own family are leading heirarchy in one
>> of the minority evangelical denominations in North
>> America, so I know from missions; and I'm a Native
>> person whose lineage is straght-up medicine people as
>> well.  I was raised not to express an opinion unless
>> it was considered and useful in some way.  But
>> that's...
>>
>> Just an opinion
>> Anguksuar (Richard LaFortune)
>>
>>
>>> A lot of people in the field disagree with you Rudy-
>>> with all due respect- folks from the aeryies of the
>>> Academy, to the corn fields and jungles where SIL
>> and
>>> New Tribes Mission have operated over the decades.
>>> This includes people who have spoken to me
>> anecdotally
>>> and have no particular political axes to grind.
>>>
>>> I suggest interested people on ILAT take a look at
>>> "Thy Will Be Done:  The Conquest of the Amazon :
>>> Nelson Rockefeller and Evangelism in the Age of Oi";
>>> and "The Missionaries", by Norman Lewis.  To use the
>>> phrase 'without substantiation' suggests that a
>> great
>>> deal of scholarship and actual substantiation from
>>> international government agencies, to personal
>>> communications by people of regard.  Who cares if
>> they
>>> have done important things in linguistics - Hitler
>>> built nice highways.
>>> Richard
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________________________
>> ______
>> Be a better friend, newshound, and
>> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.
>> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.7/1410 - Release Date: 5/1/2008 
> 5:30 PM
> 


From daryn at ARWARBUKARL.COM.AU  Tue May  6 02:17:12 2008
From: daryn at ARWARBUKARL.COM.AU (Daryn McKenny)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 12:17:12 +1000
Subject: Crossing the Pacific
Message-ID: <TUE.6.MAY.2008.121712.1000.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Silly me, way too many acronyms out there, I should have said SILC

-----Original Message-----
From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Daryn McKenny
Sent: Tuesday, 6 May 2008 10:47 AM
To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: Re: [ILAT] Crossing the Pacific

Hi,

I am sure you have all seen this article then, it is an old one:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/430944.stm

I have just attended ILATC and I just felt like I was at home, an amazing place with amazing people on amazing country, just like home. I know we are related, Aboriginal people connect with Aboriginal people.

But,we must have had really big trees to make our bark canoes back then though.


Regards
 
Daryn McKenny
 
Arwarbukarl Cultural Resource Association Inc.

Read our Indigenous Language BLOG at http://www.arwarbukarl.net.au/blog/
 


-----Original Message-----
From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of McMillan, Carol
Sent: Tuesday, 6 May 2008 6:11 AM
To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: [ILAT] Crossing the Pacific

   As a biological anthropologist by training, and being wary of the
European penchant for wanting to have "discovered" everything, and
having read that even geneticists now say that the aboriginal peoples of
Australia had to have had boats at least 40,000 years ago, and having
looked at the people of Rapa Nui (Easter Island) vs. other Pacific
Islanders, and hearing about the Hawaiian sailing canoes that have
recently traveled to Alaska and returned, (and . . . and . . . ) I
believe it's time for us all to admit that indigenous people have been
traveling by sea for many thousands of years, back and forth between
continents.  I'm growing a bit weary of all the who-came-first debates.
Perhaps it's all worth it if European and European-decent scholars in
general become less ethnocentric in their world views.  (I'm Scottish, I
can say that.)  Maybe the debate shouldn't be about who had the
technology and ability to cross large bodies of water, but who was
motivated to do it in order to rape/pillage/plunder vs. those who went
to trade and/or visit with others.  That focus might put Columbus and
others into categories more appropriate to their conduct.

Sorry, I just had to weigh in here.

Carol McMillan


From wiigwaas at MSN.COM  Tue May  6 04:39:43 2008
From: wiigwaas at MSN.COM (Earl Otchingwanigan)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 21:39:43 -0700
Subject: Crossing the Pacific
Message-ID: <MON.5.MAY.2008.213943.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Kudos to those who have presented enthusiastic theories including those of artistic license, but to bring you up to speed, these theories are greatly outdated and invalid ~ through a recent press release of a reputable unnamed source, substantial evidence has been uncovered that a certain tribe of American Indians traveled extensively world wide in ancient times both by sea and land and being of cultural bearer status, enabled most of the other humans they met in these strange and different lands to create begin meaningful cultures and societies ~ indeed, recently, a eminent ethnologist found an isolated group in Germany living in teepees and wearing outfits with striking similarity to 19th century American Indians. Cheers, Wayaaseshkang      
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Daryn McKenny<mailto:daryn at ARWARBUKARL.COM.AU> 
  To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU<mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU> 
  Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 5:46 PM
  Subject: Re: [ILAT] Crossing the Pacific


  Hi,

  I am sure you have all seen this article then, it is an old one:

  http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/430944.stm<http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/430944.stm>

  I have just attended ILATC and I just felt like I was at home, an amazing place with amazing people on amazing country, just like home. I know we are related, Aboriginal people connect with Aboriginal people.

  But,we must have had really big trees to make our bark canoes back then though.


  Regards

  Daryn McKenny

  Arwarbukarl Cultural Resource Association Inc.

  Read our Indigenous Language BLOG at http://www.arwarbukarl.net.au/blog/<http://www.arwarbukarl.net.au/blog/>



  -----Original Message-----
  From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of McMillan, Carol
  Sent: Tuesday, 6 May 2008 6:11 AM
  To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU<mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
  Subject: [ILAT] Crossing the Pacific

     As a biological anthropologist by training, and being wary of the
  European penchant for wanting to have "discovered" everything, and
  having read that even geneticists now say that the aboriginal peoples of
  Australia had to have had boats at least 40,000 years ago, and having
  looked at the people of Rapa Nui (Easter Island) vs. other Pacific
  Islanders, and hearing about the Hawaiian sailing canoes that have
  recently traveled to Alaska and returned, (and . . . and . . . ) I
  believe it's time for us all to admit that indigenous people have been
  traveling by sea for many thousands of years, back and forth between
  continents.  I'm growing a bit weary of all the who-came-first debates.
  Perhaps it's all worth it if European and European-decent scholars in
  general become less ethnocentric in their world views.  (I'm Scottish, I
  can say that.)  Maybe the debate shouldn't be about who had the
  technology and ability to cross large bodies of water, but who was
  motivated to do it in order to rape/pillage/plunder vs. those who went
  to trade and/or visit with others.  That focus might put Columbus and
  others into categories more appropriate to their conduct.

  Sorry, I just had to weigh in here.

  Carol McMillan
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From wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU  Tue May  6 03:31:23 2008
From: wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU (William J Poser)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 23:31:23 -0400
Subject: Crossing the Pacific
In-Reply-To: <BAY111-DAV129A6E636C1312C4A7FC49D1D60@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <MON.5.MAY.2008.233123.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Did I miss something? I don't recall any discussion on this list of
whether or when aboriginal people crossed the Pacific. The only
discussion along these lines was about whether there is evidence that
the Chinese visited the Americas.

Bill


From aidan at USYD.EDU.AU  Tue May  6 04:25:20 2008
From: aidan at USYD.EDU.AU (Aidan Wilson)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 14:25:20 +1000
Subject: Crossing the Pacific
In-Reply-To: <BAY111-DAV129A6E636C1312C4A7FC49D1D60@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <TUE.6.MAY.2008.142520.1000.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Ha, reminds me a bit of the tenuous geneological connection between 
Dravidian languages and Australian languages based on place names (!) 
such as "Parramatta", which is in Sydney (or just outside - depending on 
how large you think Sydney spreads), and not even close to what should 
be the locus of communication between the Subcontinent and Meganesia.

A relative of a friend told me this one most recently (I'd heard it 
before), and his source? A dude that he knows sparingly who reads lots 
of historical linguistics books. Excellent.

-Aidan

Earl Otchingwanigan wrote:
> Kudos to those who have presented enthusiastic theories 
> including those of artistic license, but to bring you up to speed, 
> these theories are greatly outdated and invalid ~ through a recent 
> press release of a reputable unnamed source, substantial evidence has 
> been uncovered that a certain tribe of American Indians 
> traveled extensively world wide in ancient times both by sea and land 
> and being of cultural bearer status, enabled most of the other humans 
> they met in these strange and different lands to create 
> begin meaningful cultures and societies ~ indeed, recently, a eminent 
> ethnologist found an isolated group in Germany living in teepees and 
> wearing outfits with striking similarity to 19th century American 
> Indians. Cheers, Wayaaseshkang      
>
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     *From:* Daryn McKenny <mailto:daryn at ARWARBUKARL.COM.AU>
>     *To:* ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU <mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
>     *Sent:* Monday, May 05, 2008 5:46 PM
>     *Subject:* Re: [ILAT] Crossing the Pacific
>
>     Hi,
>
>     I am sure you have all seen this article then, it is an old one:
>
>     http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/430944.stm
>
>     I have just attended ILATC and I just felt like I was at home, an
>     amazing place with amazing people on amazing country, just like
>     home. I know we are related, Aboriginal people connect with
>     Aboriginal people.
>
>     But,we must have had really big trees to make our bark canoes back
>     then though.
>
>
>     Regards
>
>     Daryn McKenny
>
>     Arwarbukarl Cultural Resource Association Inc.
>
>     Read our Indigenous Language BLOG at
>     http://www.arwarbukarl.net.au/blog/
>
>
>
>     -----Original Message-----
>     From: Indigenous Languages and Technology
>     [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of McMillan, Carol
>     Sent: Tuesday, 6 May 2008 6:11 AM
>     To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU <mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
>     Subject: [ILAT] Crossing the Pacific
>
>        As a biological anthropologist by training, and being wary of the
>     European penchant for wanting to have "discovered" everything, and
>     having read that even geneticists now say that the aboriginal
>     peoples of
>     Australia had to have had boats at least 40,000 years ago, and having
>     looked at the people of Rapa Nui (Easter Island) vs. other Pacific
>     Islanders, and hearing about the Hawaiian sailing canoes that have
>     recently traveled to Alaska and returned, (and . . . and . . . ) I
>     believe it's time for us all to admit that indigenous people have been
>     traveling by sea for many thousands of years, back and forth between
>     continents.  I'm growing a bit weary of all the who-came-first
>     debates.
>     Perhaps it's all worth it if European and European-decent scholars in
>     general become less ethnocentric in their world views.  (I'm
>     Scottish, I
>     can say that.)  Maybe the debate shouldn't be about who had the
>     technology and ability to cross large bodies of water, but who was
>     motivated to do it in order to rape/pillage/plunder vs. those who went
>     to trade and/or visit with others.  That focus might put Columbus and
>     others into categories more appropriate to their conduct.
>
>     Sorry, I just had to weigh in here.
>
>     Carol McMillan
>


From jordanlachler at GMAIL.COM  Tue May  6 04:32:04 2008
From: jordanlachler at GMAIL.COM (Jordan Lachler)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 22:32:04 -0600
Subject: Learning to speak Tlingit
Message-ID: <MON.5.MAY.2008.223204.0600.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1nPCGpQ86w

-- 
Jordan
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From phonosemantics at EARTHLINK.NET  Tue May  6 04:59:02 2008
From: phonosemantics at EARTHLINK.NET (jess tauber)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 23:59:02 -0500
Subject: Crossing the Pacific
Message-ID: <MON.5.MAY.2008.235902.0500.PHONOSEMANTICS@EARTHLINK.NET>

Dixon went into comparison of Australian and Dravidian phonotactics, IIRC, in his older book on the former. Lots of parallels, but some things are different.

I recently took another look at my collection of verb roots and stems in Australian languages (culled from numerous mostly more recent publications) and have been working on Dravidian for several weeks now, especially with regard to the primary derivational affixes.

Despite superficial similarities (more typological than anything else it would seem), roots and stems in the two groups are rather different in their phonosemantics.

Hey, I'd love to be the 'discoverer' of a new connection, but the evidence seems to be against it. OTOH, some of the things reconstructed for Dixon's Proto-Australian remind me a lot of things I've seen in American languages. A bit of an even longer stretch, eh? For making such a suggestion, I may well end up 'roo'ing this day....

In the meantime, though, now I'm sorry that I seem to have sidetracked serious discussion of the situation in Tibet. It wasn't my intention. Many countries have treated involuntary minorities cruelly, but the wound there is still fresh and bloody. Marxist idealism- it still boils down to racist imperialism. Welcome to the club, PRC.

Jess Tauber
phonosemantics at earthlink.net


From wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU  Tue May  6 05:26:21 2008
From: wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU (William J Poser)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 01:26:21 -0400
Subject: China
Message-ID: <TUE.6.MAY.2008.012621.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

>Marxist idealism- it still boils down to racist imperialism.

Ironically, China is no longer actually a Communist country.


From huangc20 at UFL.EDU  Tue May  6 06:34:41 2008
From: huangc20 at UFL.EDU (Jimmy/ Chun)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 02:34:41 -0400
Subject: China
Message-ID: <TUE.6.MAY.2008.023441.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

The so-called "Chinese culture" has a strong bias against cultural 
and linguistic diversity. This preference to singularity may have 
made it easy to see China-PRC as other European colonizers, and 
hence we bring up western theories that perceive modern 
nationalism and other -isms.

But I think Chinese singularity has a different, and probably 
historically longer, root. I'd like to think that it is in the 
language and the culture, but really I am not sure what 
"culture"-singular, that may be. What's "Chinese" anyway? Now 
people think of Mandarin as "the Chinese language," but Mandarin 
was only made into the National Language in the 1920's by the 
Chinese Nationalist Party KMT that formed Republic of China on the 
Mainland and then retreated to and occupied Taiwan in 1949 after 
losing their "original homeland" to the communists. ROC govt in 
Taiwan has reduced the indigenous Austronesian languages from 30 
to somewhere around 15.  PRC, or the communists, inherited 
Mandarin as its NL and then designed similar policies that have 
committed linguistic and cultural genocide in the Mainland, and 
that's why we are talking about Tibet right now (Please, don't 
forget the Uyghur - or East Turkestan. Compared to the Tibetan, 
the Uyghur is much ignored by the international media). Meanwhile, 
the Singabore govt has made Mandarin the "only" Chinese language 
the Chinese Singaporeans "should" all speak. Ironically, NONE of 
the so-labeled "Chinese groups" in Singapore spoke Mandarin as 
their first language before the LP was implemented. NONE!!!

So...China-PRC, Taiwan-ROC, Singapore... The problem of the 
observed racist imperialism in these regions is probably not 
communism or Marxism, but something else that has made "Chinese"; 
something that's quite obscure by now.

Oh, I think Confucianism has a lot to do with it. Instead of 
"benevolent teacher," many studies have now revealed a sexist and 
racist Confucius through examining his words, many of which are 
now commonsense idioms in Mandarin. Examples: (1) said to a woman 
- "If you are married to a chiken-man, obey the chicken; if you 
are married to a dog-man, obey the dog"; (2) "supposedly," a 
savage thanked the Chinese Confucian teacher Guanzhong by saving 
them from their vulgar native culture - "Without Guanzhong, we 
would never learn to tie our hair and we would still wear our 
clothes in the wrong way"

Since these thoughts, stories, and words are encoded into the 
language, it should not matter whether PRC govt really did abolish 
Confucian symbols during the Cultural Revolution...


On Tue May 06 01:26:21 EDT 2008, William J Poser 
<wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU> wrote:

>> Marxist idealism- it still boils down to racist imperialism.
> 
> Ironically, China is no longer actually a Communist country.
> 
> 


From dave_pearson at SIL.ORG  Tue May  6 14:05:38 2008
From: dave_pearson at SIL.ORG (Dave Pearson)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 15:05:38 +0100
Subject: re SIL
In-Reply-To: <477135.11385.qm@web43137.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.6.MAY.2008.150538.0100.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Richard,

I have never found accusations based on guilt-by-association
(SIL-NTM-Rockerfeller-CIA etc.) to be convincing. Your addition of Hitler to
the list (below) simply weakens an already feeble argument. In any case,
even if there were truth in these accusations there's nothing I or anybody
else can do about the SIL of 40 or 50 years ago. Incidentally, Pullum's
recent obituary of Derbyshire
(http://www.linguistlist.org/issues/19/19-1.html ) is a sobering reality
check of the period. 

The fact that current criticism is based upon events of a previous century
is a testimony to the SIL of today. As an ardent supporter of human rights
in general and indigenous rights in particular I can assure you that the
organisation that you describe is not one that I would be willing to join.

At some point I'll post a report on the half-day debate on indigenous
languages held last month at the UN Permanent Forum on Indigenous Issues. 

Dave Pearson, SIL International

-----Original Message-----
From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU]
On Behalf Of Richard LaFortune
Sent: 05 May 2008 19:07
To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: Re: [ILAT] re SIL

I forwarded this earlier to Rudy and rec'd a response.
 Some people would assert that some evangelical
translations efforts have advanced applied
-not theoretical- linguistics...except First Speakers
are required for applied fieldwork and other tasks of
science.  And the early and emerging information about
these outfits over the past couple of decades
convincingly alleges that these reactionary
denominational translators were all about neutalizing
(and you can interpret that word in its most sobering
sense) the very people who were first speakers,
because of fights over natural and political
resources.  There is no valid argument for any
government surveillance that wipes out a quarter
million Native first speakers; there is no balance in
which a list of languages outweighs the lives of
sovereign people in our ancestral domains by force of 
violence.  My own family are leading heirarchy in one
of the minority evangelical denominations in North
America, so I know from missions; and I'm a Native
person whose lineage is straght-up medicine people as
well.  I was raised not to express an opinion unless
it was considered and useful in some way.  But
that's...

Just an opinion
Anguksuar (Richard LaFortune)


> A lot of people in the field disagree with you Rudy-
> with all due respect- folks from the aeryies of the
> Academy, to the corn fields and jungles where SIL
and
> New Tribes Mission have operated over the decades.
> This includes people who have spoken to me
anecdotally
> and have no particular political axes to grind.  
>
> I suggest interested people on ILAT take a look at
> "Thy Will Be Done:  The Conquest of the Amazon :
> Nelson Rockefeller and Evangelism in the Age of Oi";
> and "The Missionaries", by Norman Lewis.  To use the
> phrase 'without substantiation' suggests that a
great
> deal of scholarship and actual substantiation from
> international government agencies, to personal
> communications by people of regard.  Who cares if
they
> have done important things in linguistics - Hitler
> built nice highways.
> Richard



 
____________________________________________________________________________
________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
X-Quarantine ID  /var/spool/MD-Quarantine/14/qdir-2008-05-05-14.06.55-001


From awebster at SIU.EDU  Tue May  6 14:20:09 2008
From: awebster at SIU.EDU (awebster@siu.edu)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 10:20:09 -0400
Subject: re SIL
In-Reply-To: <002801c8af1a$dc2dd1e0$0100a8c0@owner9fqsnjd3n>
Message-ID: <TUE.6.MAY.2008.102009.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Dear Jan Tucker and others,

I am reminded of Momaday's House Made of Dawn, "In beginning 
was the word" is a wonderful idea, Momaday tells us, but 
then "White people" had to go adding something, they could not 
leave it alone, and so they added, "and the word was God."

Some Christian denominations are into translation by degrees, 
and some are not. The Jehovah's Witnesses, for example, attempt 
to replicate Jehovah as a Navajo word: Jiihovah. But this seems 
naive linguistics. One, it should probably be Jiihobah, and 
two, I doubt very much that they mean to suggest that /h/ is 
actually pronounced word final in Jiihovah (it certainly is not 
in English). But in Navajo, word final /h/ is pronounced (i.e., 
gah 'rabbit'). Other denominations make decisions on whether or 
not to translate Jesus into Navajo or leave it has Jesus. 
Understanding ideologically what can and cannot be translated 
across languages becomes an interesting approach to "the word".

Best, akw

---------Included Message----------
>Date: 5-may-2008 20:45:41 -0500
>From: "Jan Tucker" <jtucker at starband.net>
>To: <ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
>Subject: Re: [ILAT] re SIL
>
>Richard,
>    I was at a "primitive skills" event last weekend. I was 
listening to 
>what I thought was a group of men who were "End Timers". They 
were fired up 
>with the "word" in their flint knapping circle. I was sitting 
quietly sewing 
>a deer hide to smoke in a demonstration. Anyway, I let it out 
I was an 
>anthropologist and spent the rest of the weekend being 
interrogated about my 
>beliefs. It was tough, my point though is that I hadn't 
realized how 
>important the phrase "In the beginning was the Word" to these 
Southern 
>Christians until this weekend.  It made me realize why the 
Bible is so 
>important to this group, and realize why the missionaries have 
become 
>linguists, and translated the bible into so many different 
languages. Maybe 
>they are becoming like their God, being the first to share 
the "Word". Their 
>zealot like enthusiasm seems to suggest this to me. I agree 
after talking to 
>these people with what you said here
>
>>From his paradigm window, these natives are children of "the 
fall" of
>> a literal Adam and Eve, and they need to be rescued at any 
cost.
>> I think Its important for us to understand what compels 
missionary work,
>> even if their view of reality is MAJOR different than our 
own.
>
>I heard this same kind of thinking about the unsaved, and a 
story about 
>someone (Adam or Adam's brother???) taking a wife from the 
land of Nod or 
>something. Wish I'd played closer attention now. The person 
was suggesting 
>the land of Nod was populated by other people or maybe the  
unsaved people. 
>All this was suggested with questions and seemingly open for 
interpretation.
>
>Understanding the perspective of the Christian 
missionaries "paradigm 
>window" is useful to defend against the assimilations 
pressures that often 
>begun with adopting their religion.
>
>Jan Tucker
>Applied Cultural Anthropologist
>Liberal Arts Department
>Lake City Community College
>Lake City, FL
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Richard Smith" <rzs at WILDBLUE.NET>
>To: <ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
>Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 5:28 PM
>Subject: Re: [ILAT] re SIL
>
>
>> kweh Richard LaFortune,
>>
>> I sure agree with alot of what you share here.
>> Some people can't seem to see it.
>> The Evangelical/Catholic Christian views things through a 
window
>> which insists on some major absolutes usually very different 
than the
>> paradigms of the people groups they go to "save".
>>
>> Giving benefit of the doubt that most are basicly wholesome 
people,
>> an Evangelical is not necessarily and consciously intent on 
destroying a
>> culture. In fact culture and even language is a side issue 
completely.
>> He might actually love those who he views as "ignorant of 
God" and care
>> deeply in his heart for souls he understands as condemned to 
eternal
>> damnation.
>> From his paradigm window, these natives are children of "the 
fall" of
>> a literal Adam and Eve, and they need to be rescued at any 
cost.
>> I think Its important for us to understand what compels 
missionary work,
>> even if their view of reality is MAJOR different than our 
own.
>>
>> An example with own ancestors i've used before: Jesuit 
priests would
>> secretly baptize Wendat children dying of small pox when 
their parents
>> weren't looking.When they were caught doing it, parents were 
horrified and
>> threw the priests out of the longhouses in fear that priests 
were now
>> finishing their children off with witchcraft and mumbling 
strange curses.
>> Its possible BOTH parents and priests deeply cared for the 
dying ones,
>> but these priests were strange newcomers, and were acting 
out of line.
>> Even if they wrote happily in their journals about how they 
saved dying
>> children from hell that day...    to my own people they 
acted wrongly.
>>
>> Language is their vehicle for conversion of people to their 
own paradigm.
>> Wycliffe wants to "reduce" all earths languages to writing 
so that people
>> can read the Christian Bible in their own language. Its 
inherent with many
>> Christian beliefs that when "all have heard"   Christ will 
return to 
>> earth.
>> All this passion of foreigners coming to save souls 
from "sin" and 
>> hellfire
>> and convert the lost to a middle-eastern based paradigm has 
a cost
>> and weakens alot of  very important traditions of our people
>> but strangely enough it has one bright side. Languages are 
preserved and
>> even some pretty complicated thought is recorded.
>>
>> I guess maybe i'm trying to be positive,
>>
>> Richard Zane Smith
>> Wyandotte Oklahoma
>>
>>
>>
>> On 5/5/08 11:06 AM, "Richard LaFortune" 
<anguksuar at YAHOO.COM> wrote:
>>
>>> I forwarded this earlier to Rudy and rec'd a response.
>>>  Some people would assert that some evangelical
>>> translations efforts have advanced applied
>>> -not theoretical- linguistics...except First Speakers
>>> are required for applied fieldwork and other tasks of
>>> science.  And the early and emerging information about
>>> these outfits over the past couple of decades
>>> convincingly alleges that these reactionary
>>> denominational translators were all about neutalizing
>>> (and you can interpret that word in its most sobering
>>> sense) the very people who were first speakers,
>>> because of fights over natural and political
>>> resources.  There is no valid argument for any
>>> government surveillance that wipes out a quarter
>>> million Native first speakers; there is no balance in
>>> which a list of languages outweighs the lives of
>>> sovereign people in our ancestral domains by force of
>>> violence.  My own family are leading heirarchy in one
>>> of the minority evangelical denominations in North
>>> America, so I know from missions; and I'm a Native
>>> person whose lineage is straght-up medicine people as
>>> well.  I was raised not to express an opinion unless
>>> it was considered and useful in some way.  But
>>> that's...
>>>
>>> Just an opinion
>>> Anguksuar (Richard LaFortune)
>>>
>>>
>>>> A lot of people in the field disagree with you Rudy-
>>>> with all due respect- folks from the aeryies of the
>>>> Academy, to the corn fields and jungles where SIL
>>> and
>>>> New Tribes Mission have operated over the decades.
>>>> This includes people who have spoken to me
>>> anecdotally
>>>> and have no particular political axes to grind.
>>>>
>>>> I suggest interested people on ILAT take a look at
>>>> "Thy Will Be Done:  The Conquest of the Amazon :
>>>> Nelson Rockefeller and Evangelism in the Age of Oi";
>>>> and "The Missionaries", by Norman Lewis.  To use the
>>>> phrase 'without substantiation' suggests that a
>>> great
>>>> deal of scholarship and actual substantiation from
>>>> international government agencies, to personal
>>>> communications by people of regard.  Who cares if
>>> they
>>>> have done important things in linguistics - Hitler
>>>> built nice highways.
>>>> Richard
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
________________________________________________________________
______________
>>> ______
>>> Be a better friend, newshound, and
>>> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.
>>> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG.
>> Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.7/1410 - Release 
Date: 5/1/2008 
>> 5:30 PM
>> 
>
>
---------End of Included Message----------

Anthony K. Webster, Ph.D.
Department of Anthropology &
Native American Studies Minor
Southern Illinois University
Mail Code 4502
Carbondale, IL 62901-4502
618-453-5027


From jtucker at STARBAND.NET  Tue May  6 14:56:35 2008
From: jtucker at STARBAND.NET (Jan Tucker)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 10:56:35 -0400
Subject: re SIL
Message-ID: <TUE.6.MAY.2008.105635.0400.JTUCKER@STARBAND.NET>

akw and others,

I wonder how the idea of "In the beginning was the word..."  leaving out the 
addition of "and the word was God" is different?  I haven't read the book 
"House Made of Dawn", but I have the film version and remember the saying as 
you stated it. If I can ask...How do you see the difference? I can speculate 
through my own paradigm that "the word" or language arrived at the same time 
modern humans arrived or even consciousness of humans was realized. I hope I 
am not going off topic here for this discussion.

Jan


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "awebster at siu.edu" <awebster at SIU.EDU>
To: <ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 10:20 AM
Subject: Re: [ILAT] re SIL


> Dear Jan Tucker and others,
>
> I am reminded of Momaday's House Made of Dawn, "In beginning
> was the word" is a wonderful idea, Momaday tells us, but
> then "White people" had to go adding something, they could not
> leave it alone, and so they added, "and the word was God."
>
> Some Christian denominations are into translation by degrees,
> and some are not. The Jehovah's Witnesses, for example, attempt
> to replicate Jehovah as a Navajo word: Jiihovah. But this seems
> naive linguistics. One, it should probably be Jiihobah, and
> two, I doubt very much that they mean to suggest that /h/ is
> actually pronounced word final in Jiihovah (it certainly is not
> in English). But in Navajo, word final /h/ is pronounced (i.e.,
> gah 'rabbit'). Other denominations make decisions on whether or
> not to translate Jesus into Navajo or leave it has Jesus.
> Understanding ideologically what can and cannot be translated
> across languages becomes an interesting approach to "the word".
>
> Best, akw
>
> ---------Included Message----------
>>Date: 5-may-2008 20:45:41 -0500
>>From: "Jan Tucker" <jtucker at starband.net>
>>To: <ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
>>Subject: Re: [ILAT] re SIL
>>
>>Richard,
>>    I was at a "primitive skills" event last weekend. I was
> listening to
>>what I thought was a group of men who were "End Timers". They
> were fired up
>>with the "word" in their flint knapping circle. I was sitting
> quietly sewing
>>a deer hide to smoke in a demonstration. Anyway, I let it out
> I was an
>>anthropologist and spent the rest of the weekend being
> interrogated about my
>>beliefs. It was tough, my point though is that I hadn't
> realized how
>>important the phrase "In the beginning was the Word" to these
> Southern
>>Christians until this weekend.  It made me realize why the
> Bible is so
>>important to this group, and realize why the missionaries have
> become
>>linguists, and translated the bible into so many different
> languages. Maybe
>>they are becoming like their God, being the first to share
> the "Word". Their
>>zealot like enthusiasm seems to suggest this to me. I agree
> after talking to
>>these people with what you said here
>>
>>>From his paradigm window, these natives are children of "the
> fall" of
>>> a literal Adam and Eve, and they need to be rescued at any
> cost.
>>> I think Its important for us to understand what compels
> missionary work,
>>> even if their view of reality is MAJOR different than our
> own.
>>
>>I heard this same kind of thinking about the unsaved, and a
> story about
>>someone (Adam or Adam's brother???) taking a wife from the
> land of Nod or
>>something. Wish I'd played closer attention now. The person
> was suggesting
>>the land of Nod was populated by other people or maybe the
> unsaved people.
>>All this was suggested with questions and seemingly open for
> interpretation.
>>
>>Understanding the perspective of the Christian
> missionaries "paradigm
>>window" is useful to defend against the assimilations
> pressures that often
>>begun with adopting their religion.
>>
>>Jan Tucker
>>Applied Cultural Anthropologist
>>Liberal Arts Department
>>Lake City Community College
>>Lake City, FL
>>
>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>From: "Richard Smith" <rzs at WILDBLUE.NET>
>>To: <ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
>>Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 5:28 PM
>>Subject: Re: [ILAT] re SIL
>>
>>
>>> kweh Richard LaFortune,
>>>
>>> I sure agree with alot of what you share here.
>>> Some people can't seem to see it.
>>> The Evangelical/Catholic Christian views things through a
> window
>>> which insists on some major absolutes usually very different
> than the
>>> paradigms of the people groups they go to "save".
>>>
>>> Giving benefit of the doubt that most are basicly wholesome
> people,
>>> an Evangelical is not necessarily and consciously intent on
> destroying a
>>> culture. In fact culture and even language is a side issue
> completely.
>>> He might actually love those who he views as "ignorant of
> God" and care
>>> deeply in his heart for souls he understands as condemned to
> eternal
>>> damnation.
>>> From his paradigm window, these natives are children of "the
> fall" of
>>> a literal Adam and Eve, and they need to be rescued at any
> cost.
>>> I think Its important for us to understand what compels
> missionary work,
>>> even if their view of reality is MAJOR different than our
> own.
>>>
>>> An example with own ancestors i've used before: Jesuit
> priests would
>>> secretly baptize Wendat children dying of small pox when
> their parents
>>> weren't looking.When they were caught doing it, parents were
> horrified and
>>> threw the priests out of the longhouses in fear that priests
> were now
>>> finishing their children off with witchcraft and mumbling
> strange curses.
>>> Its possible BOTH parents and priests deeply cared for the
> dying ones,
>>> but these priests were strange newcomers, and were acting
> out of line.
>>> Even if they wrote happily in their journals about how they
> saved dying
>>> children from hell that day...    to my own people they
> acted wrongly.
>>>
>>> Language is their vehicle for conversion of people to their
> own paradigm.
>>> Wycliffe wants to "reduce" all earths languages to writing
> so that people
>>> can read the Christian Bible in their own language. Its
> inherent with many
>>> Christian beliefs that when "all have heard"   Christ will
> return to
>>> earth.
>>> All this passion of foreigners coming to save souls
> from "sin" and
>>> hellfire
>>> and convert the lost to a middle-eastern based paradigm has
> a cost
>>> and weakens alot of  very important traditions of our people
>>> but strangely enough it has one bright side. Languages are
> preserved and
>>> even some pretty complicated thought is recorded.
>>>
>>> I guess maybe i'm trying to be positive,
>>>
>>> Richard Zane Smith
>>> Wyandotte Oklahoma
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/5/08 11:06 AM, "Richard LaFortune"
> <anguksuar at YAHOO.COM> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I forwarded this earlier to Rudy and rec'd a response.
>>>>  Some people would assert that some evangelical
>>>> translations efforts have advanced applied
>>>> -not theoretical- linguistics...except First Speakers
>>>> are required for applied fieldwork and other tasks of
>>>> science.  And the early and emerging information about
>>>> these outfits over the past couple of decades
>>>> convincingly alleges that these reactionary
>>>> denominational translators were all about neutalizing
>>>> (and you can interpret that word in its most sobering
>>>> sense) the very people who were first speakers,
>>>> because of fights over natural and political
>>>> resources.  There is no valid argument for any
>>>> government surveillance that wipes out a quarter
>>>> million Native first speakers; there is no balance in
>>>> which a list of languages outweighs the lives of
>>>> sovereign people in our ancestral domains by force of
>>>> violence.  My own family are leading heirarchy in one
>>>> of the minority evangelical denominations in North
>>>> America, so I know from missions; and I'm a Native
>>>> person whose lineage is straght-up medicine people as
>>>> well.  I was raised not to express an opinion unless
>>>> it was considered and useful in some way.  But
>>>> that's...
>>>>
>>>> Just an opinion
>>>> Anguksuar (Richard LaFortune)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> A lot of people in the field disagree with you Rudy-
>>>>> with all due respect- folks from the aeryies of the
>>>>> Academy, to the corn fields and jungles where SIL
>>>> and
>>>>> New Tribes Mission have operated over the decades.
>>>>> This includes people who have spoken to me
>>>> anecdotally
>>>>> and have no particular political axes to grind.
>>>>>
>>>>> I suggest interested people on ILAT take a look at
>>>>> "Thy Will Be Done:  The Conquest of the Amazon :
>>>>> Nelson Rockefeller and Evangelism in the Age of Oi";
>>>>> and "The Missionaries", by Norman Lewis.  To use the
>>>>> phrase 'without substantiation' suggests that a
>>>> great
>>>>> deal of scholarship and actual substantiation from
>>>>> international government agencies, to personal
>>>>> communications by people of regard.  Who cares if
>>>> they
>>>>> have done important things in linguistics - Hitler
>>>>> built nice highways.
>>>>> Richard
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
> ________________________________________________________________
> ______________
>>>> ______
>>>> Be a better friend, newshound, and
>>>> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.
>>>> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG.
>>> Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.7/1410 - Release
> Date: 5/1/2008
>>> 5:30 PM
>>>
>>
>>
> ---------End of Included Message----------
>
> Anthony K. Webster, Ph.D.
> Department of Anthropology &
> Native American Studies Minor
> Southern Illinois University
> Mail Code 4502
> Carbondale, IL 62901-4502
> 618-453-5027
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.7/1410 - Release Date: 5/1/2008 
> 5:30 PM
> 


From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Tue May  6 17:23:23 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 10:23:23 -0700
Subject: OHA awards $5,000 grant (fwd link)
Message-ID: <TUE.6.MAY.2008.102323.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Tuesday, May 6, 2008
OHA awards $5,000 grant

Ka Haka `Ula O Ke`elikolani College of Hawaiian Language at the University of
Hawaii at Hilo has been awarded a $50,000 grant from the Office of Hawaiian
Affairs to promote language proficiency in elementary school children.

Access full article below:
http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080506/BREAKING01/80506002/-1/LOCALNEWSFRONT


From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Tue May  6 17:26:37 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 10:26:37 -0700
Subject: Yup'ik voters want help at polls (fwd link)
Message-ID: <TUE.6.MAY.2008.102637.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Yup'ik voters want help at polls

INJUNCTION: Bethel residents, others say state must do more.

By ANNE SUTTON
The Associated Press

Published: May 6th, 2008 01:24 AM
Last Modified: May 6th, 2008 01:38 AM
The Anchorage Daily News

JUNEAU -- Residents of Bethel and five Kuskokwim River villages are asking a
federal court to order more effective elections assistance for Yup'ik-speaking
voters.

The Native American Rights Fund and the American Civil Liberties Union filed for
a preliminary injunction on behalf of the plaintiffs in an Anchorage district
court on Monday.

They are asking state and local elections officials to ensure that bilingual
staff are available at the polls to assist voters and translate ballots and
elections materials into Yup'ik for the August primary.

Access full article below:
http://www.adn.com/western_alaska/story/397303.html


From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Tue May  6 17:30:37 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 10:30:37 -0700
Subject: Lessons from the Amazon (fwd link)
Message-ID: <TUE.6.MAY.2008.103037.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

May 6, 2008

Lessons from the Amazon
Chief inspires Toronto students

By BEN SPENCER, SUN MEDIA

Pass him by in the street and Tashka Yawanawa probably wouldn't draw a second
look.

But at his home, deep within the heart of Amazon, he is a king -- well, a chief
anyway.

Rightly so. The native leader almost single-handedly brought the Yawanawa tribe
back from the brink of extinction.

At just 28, he was thrust into the position of chief after a tribal leader had a
vision that he could turn the ailing people around.

That he did. After the tribe's population dwindled to just 220 in 1992, more
than 620 now call the Yawanawa community home.

Access full article below:
http://www.torontosun.com/News/TorontoAndGTA/2008/05/06/5481766-sun.html


From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Tue May  6 17:33:57 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 10:33:57 -0700
Subject: Hi-tech approach to language development (fwd link)
Message-ID: <TUE.6.MAY.2008.103357.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Hi-tech approach to language development
China.org.cn

When Tashi Tserang was a graduate student at the University of Virginia in the
United States four years ago, there was nothing he loved more than chatting on
MSN with his friends in his native Yunnan province.

Their conversation was mostly in the Tibetan language, but, much to Tashi's
frustration, not all of his friends could take part at the same time - they
were all using different software to input the Tibetan language, which led to
problems with compatibility.

Access full article below:
http://www.china.org.cn/china/sci_tech/2008-05/06/content_15075065.htm


From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Tue May  6 17:37:01 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 10:37:01 -0700
Subject: How Hebrew was (and continues to be) transformed into a modern
 language (fwd link)
Message-ID: <TUE.6.MAY.2008.103701.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

05.05.08
Word Choice

How Hebrew was (and continues to be) transformed into a modern language
Reported by Daniel Estrin

Sixty years ago this week, the modern state of Israel was born. Since then,
thousands, and ultimately millions, of Jews have adopted Hebrew as their
primary language, despite the fact that their ancestors stopped speaking it
nearly two thousand years earlier. Linguists say it is the most successful
instance yet of a “dead” language’s revival.

Access full article below:
http://www.nextbook.org/cultural/feature.html?id=828&page=comments


From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Tue May  6 17:39:38 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 10:39:38 -0700
Subject: Preserving the spoken word focus of linguistics project (fwd link)
Message-ID: <TUE.6.MAY.2008.103938.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Preserving the spoken word focus of linguistics project

By Lee Shearer   |   lee.shearer at onlineathens.com   |   Story updated at 12:10
AM on Saturday, May 3, 2008

University of Georgia English professor William Kretzschmar suspects there's
been some sort of English influence in Winder.

He's heard people from the Barrow County town use the British word "boot" for
what most Americans call the "trunk" of their car.

It's the kind of inexplicable linguistic quirk that Kretzschmar runs across
frequently in his work.

Kretzschmar is director of the Linguistic Atlas Project, which is really a
series of studies dating back to the 1930s on how Americans use everyday
language.

Access full article below:
http://www.onlineathens.com/stories/050308/uganews_2008050300785.shtml


From CMcMillan at WVC.EDU  Tue May  6 18:01:01 2008
From: CMcMillan at WVC.EDU (McMillan, Carol)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 11:01:01 -0700
Subject: Crossing the Pacific
In-Reply-To: A<B8D25E496AE11C4CA73743EBCA26DF7D056E1C@acraserv1.acra.local>
Message-ID: <TUE.6.MAY.2008.110101.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Fascinating.  Can't believe I haven't heard of this.  Thanks so much.

No mention of Rapa Nui, but it would explain the physical appearance of Easter Islanders.  Their language and culture are definitely of Polynesian, but there are also many South American influences (as in the stonework of their platforms or ahus.) Very interesting.

Carol 

-----Original Message-----
From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Daryn McKenny
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 5:47 PM
To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: Re: [ILAT] Crossing the Pacific

Hi,

I am sure you have all seen this article then, it is an old one:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/430944.stm

I have just attended ILATC and I just felt like I was at home, an amazing place with amazing people on amazing country, just like home. I know we are related, Aboriginal people connect with Aboriginal people.

But,we must have had really big trees to make our bark canoes back then though.


Regards
 
Daryn McKenny
 
Arwarbukarl Cultural Resource Association Inc.

Read our Indigenous Language BLOG at http://www.arwarbukarl.net.au/blog/
 


-----Original Message-----
From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of McMillan, Carol
Sent: Tuesday, 6 May 2008 6:11 AM
To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: [ILAT] Crossing the Pacific

   As a biological anthropologist by training, and being wary of the European penchant for wanting to have "discovered" everything, and having read that even geneticists now say that the aboriginal peoples of Australia had to have had boats at least 40,000 years ago, and having looked at the people of Rapa Nui (Easter Island) vs. other Pacific Islanders, and hearing about the Hawaiian sailing canoes that have recently traveled to Alaska and returned, (and . . . and . . . ) I believe it's time for us all to admit that indigenous people have been traveling by sea for many thousands of years, back and forth between continents.  I'm growing a bit weary of all the who-came-first debates.
Perhaps it's all worth it if European and European-decent scholars in general become less ethnocentric in their world views.  (I'm Scottish, I can say that.)  Maybe the debate shouldn't be about who had the technology and ability to cross large bodies of water, but who was motivated to do it in order to rape/pillage/plunder vs. those who went to trade and/or visit with others.  That focus might put Columbus and others into categories more appropriate to their conduct.

Sorry, I just had to weigh in here.

Carol McMillan


From wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU  Tue May  6 19:02:53 2008
From: wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU (William J Poser)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 15:02:53 -0400
Subject: re SIL
In-Reply-To: <1210083609-20319.00036.00529-smmsdV2.1.6@saluki-mailhub.siu.edu>
Message-ID: <TUE.6.MAY.2008.150253.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

A further detail on "Jehovah" is that in our Jewish tradition this
name, written YHWH in Hebrew, may not be pronounced. Whenever it is
encountered in the text of the "Old Testament", it is pronounced
"adonai", which means "lord". (In Modern Hebrew "adon" is "Mister".)
YHWH is what in some cultures is called a "war name" or "secret name",
knowledge of which gives power of that individual.

Bill Poser


From anguksuar at YAHOO.COM  Tue May  6 23:29:51 2008
From: anguksuar at YAHOO.COM (Richard LaFortune)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 16:29:51 -0700
Subject: Norman Lewis
In-Reply-To: <004d01c8af82$456b0530$b3b6a8c0@hgc>
Message-ID: <TUE.6.MAY.2008.162951.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

The point also included writing by Norman Lewis (The
Missionaries, 1988), so it isn't based on single
source material. He is accounted as one of the finest
writers of the past century, and he included numerous
references that echo concerns of other humane
thinkers.  See p.242 w a reference to the 13 Mar 1987
denunciation by the UN and OAS about SIL's illegal
entry to VZ.  So actually the United Nations has
weighed in on the matter for the record.
Mark Abley's book "Spoken Here" (2003) references SIL,
and asserts 'its motives are open to question.'
(p.238). 
You can say any argument is weak, but leading thinkers
and writers say otherwise.  Maybe the organization is
different today; one would hope and pray so.
peace!
Richard (Yupiit Nation)

--- Dave Pearson <dave_pearson at SIL.ORG> wrote:

> Richard,
> 
> I have never found accusations based on
> guilt-by-association
> (SIL-NTM-Rockerfeller-CIA etc.) to be convincing.
> Your addition of Hitler to
> the list (below) simply weakens an already feeble
> argument. In any case,
> even if there were truth in these accusations
> there's nothing I or anybody
> else can do about the SIL of 40 or 50 years ago.
> Incidentally, Pullum's
> recent obituary of Derbyshire
> (http://www.linguistlist.org/issues/19/19-1.html )
> is a sobering reality
> check of the period. 
> 
> The fact that current criticism is based upon events
> of a previous century
> is a testimony to the SIL of today. As an ardent
> supporter of human rights
> in general and indigenous rights in particular I can
> assure you that the
> organisation that you describe is not one that I
> would be willing to join.
> 
> At some point I'll post a report on the half-day
> debate on indigenous
> languages held last month at the UN Permanent Forum
> on Indigenous Issues. 
> 
> Dave Pearson, SIL International



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ


From fmarmole at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Wed May  7 01:06:51 2008
From: fmarmole at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (Francisco Marmolejo)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 18:06:51 -0700
Subject: FW: OFI Workshops at Congress 2008/OFI Ateliers au Congress de
 2008
Message-ID: <TUE.6.MAY.2008.180651.0700.>

FYI.

Saludos,

Francisco

 

 

Francisco Marmolejo

Executive Director

Consortium for North American Higher Education Collaboration

CONAHEC - University of Arizona

PO Box 210300

220 W. Sixth Street

Tucson, AZ 85721-0300 USA

Tel. (520) 621-9080 / 621-7761

Fax (520) 626-2675

Email:  <mailto:fmarmole at email.arizona.edu> fmarmole at email.arizona.edu

 <http://conahec.org/> http://conahec.org

 

cid:image001.jpg at 01C7AF30.82AF8360

 

Francisco Marmolejo

Assistant Vice President for Western Hemispheric Programs

University of Arizona

PO Box 210158

888 N. Euclid Ave. / University Services Bldg.

Tucson, AZ 85721 USA

Tel. (520) 626-4258

Fax (520) 621-6011

Email:  <mailto:fmarmole at email.arizona.edu> fmarmole at email.arizona.edu

http://www.whp.arizona.edu

 

cid:image002.gif at 01C7AF30.82AF8360   

 

From: Sebastien Levesque [mailto:sebastien.levesque at CAPP.ULAVAL.CA] 
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 10:43 AM
To: POLCAN at LISTES.ULAVAL.CA
Subject: OFI Workshops at Congress 2008/OFI Ateliers au Congress de 2008

 

From: Jodi Bruhn [jbruhn at iog.ca]

"Aboriginal Research and Policy: Understanding the Challenges of Métis,
Non-Status Indians and Urban Aboriginal Peoples" Workshops at the Congress
of the Humanities and Social Sciences, Vancouver, British Columbia

Thursday, June 5th, 2008

First Nations Longhouse,

1985 West Mall, University of British Columbia

At Congress 2008, the Aboriginal Policy Research Network of the Office of
the Federal Interlocutor for Métis and Non-Status Indians is partnering with
the Canadian Federation for the Humanities and Social Sciences to hold two
workshops on research and policy relevant to Métis,non-status Indians and
urban Aboriginal peoples.  These workshops, which will involve both research
presentations and dialogue among researchers and community members to
explore the issues raised by the research in greater depth, will encourage
scholars to explore a wide range of issues relevant to Aboriginal peoples
and policy-makers.  Each session will last three and a half hours, one in
the morning and one in the afternoon.  The Institute On Governance will
prepare a report on these sessions and publish it on its website.    

 

Workshop #1 - Increasing the social and economic inclusion of Métis,
Non-Status Indians and urban Aboriginal people  

9 AM - 12:30 PM

"An Overview of the Latest Findings from the Census and Labour Force

Survey: Understanding the Challenges of Métis, Non-Status Indians and Urban
Aboriginal Peoples"

Andrew Siggner (Siggner & Associates, on behalf of the Office of the Federal
Interlocutor for Métis and Non-Status Indians) 

"The Well-Being of Communities with Significant Métis Population in Canada" 

Russell Lapointe, Sacha Senécal and Eric Guimond (Indian and Northern
Affairs Canada)

"Indigenous Voices: The Probe Research Survey of Aboriginal People in
Manitoba" 

Christopher Adams (Probe Research) 

"Thoughts on Métis Economic Development" 

Gregg Dahl (Office of the Federal Interlocutor for Métis and Non-Status

Indians) 

"Improving Urban Aboriginal Health: Indigenous Knowledge, Collaborative
Research and Urban Marginalization"

Denielle Elliot (UBC), Archie Myran (Vancouver Native Health Society) and
Marian Krawczyk

 

Workshop #2 - Challenges of preserving Aboriginal identities, new governance
arrangements and strategies to increase the engagement of Aboriginal people
in political and civic life in culturally diverse urban communities 

1:30 PM - 5 PM

" 'A Rather Vexed Question...': The Federal-Provincial Debate over the
Constitutional Responsibility for Métis Scrip"

Nicole O'Byrne (Victoria)

"Is Aboriginal Self-Government Possible in Highly Diverse Cities?"

Bradford Morse (Ottawa)

"Urban Aboriginal Self-Governance in Ottawa, Winnipeg, and Vancouver:

Trends, Problems, and Perspectives" 

Julie Tomiak (Carleton)

"Care, Identity and Inclusion in Pluralist Societies: Examining the Policy
Implications For and From Aboriginal People" 

Paul Kershaw (UBC)

"The BC Métis Mapping Initiative: Towards Establishing Long-term Aboriginal
Community / University Relationships" 

Michael Evans (UBC) and Dean Trumbley (Métis Nation of British

Columbia) 

The sessions are open to everyone - day passes are $15 each and are
available for purchase each day at the Congress Registration desks in the
Student Union Building at UBC. The number of day passes available is
limited, as Congress events are first and foremost intended for the benefit
of members of associations meeting at the Congress, i.e.

registered Congress delegates.  A number of day passes will be set aside for
those who identify themselves at the registration desk as participants in
the Aboriginal Policy Research Network workshops but, in order to avoid
disappointment, pick up your day pass early.  

For those who would like to attend the Congress, registration information is
available at
<http://www.fedcan.ca/congress2008/registration/registration.html>
http://www.fedcan.ca/congress2008/registration/registration.html. Further
information on the Congress is available at
<http://www.fedcan.ca/congress2008/> http://www.fedcan.ca/congress2008/.  A
map of the University of British Columbia map is available at
<http://www.maps.ubc.ca/PROD/images/pdf/ubcmap.pdf>
http://www.maps.ubc.ca/PROD/images/pdf/ubcmap.pdf. 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------

« Recherche et politiques autochtones : comprendre les défis des Métis, des
Indiens non inscrits et des Autochtones vivant en milieu urbain »

-

ateliers du Congrées de la Fédération canadienne des sciences humaines,
Vancouver, Colombie-Britannique

Le jeudi 5 juin 2008

First Nations Longhouse,

1985 West Mall, Université de la Colombie-Britannique

Au Congrès de 2008, le Réseau de recherche sur les politiques autochtones du
Bureau de l'Interlocuteur fédéral auprès des Métis et des Indiens non
inscrits forge un partenariat avec la Fédération canadienne des sciences
humaines pour organiser deux ateliers sur la recherche et les politiques
intéressant les Métis, les Indiens non inscrits et les Autochtones vivant en
milieu urbain. Ces ateliers, qui comporteront des présentations sur les
recherches et le dialogue entre les chercheurs et les membres des
communautés, examineront plus exhaustivement les questions soulevées par la
recherche et encourageront les chercheurs à se pencher sur une vaste gamme
de dossiers pertinents aux peuples autochtones et aux responsables des
politiques. Chaque séance du matin et de l'après-midi durera trois heures et
demie.

 

Atelier no1 - Accroître l'inclusion sociale et économique des Métis, des
Indiens non inscrits et des Autochtones vivant en milieu urbain 

De 9 h à 12 h 30

Aperçu des plus récents résultats du recensement et de l'enquête sur la
population active : comprendre les défis des Métis, des Indiens non inscrits
et des Autochtones vivant en milieu urbain Andrew Siggner (Siggner &
Associates, au nom du Bureau de l'Interlocuteur fédéral auprès des Métis et
des Indiens non

inscrits) 

Le bien-être des communautés ayant une importante population métisse au
Canada Russell Lapointe, Sacha Senécal et Eric Guimond (Affaires indiennes
et du Nord Canada)

Voix autochtones : l'enquête de recherche Probe sur les peuples autochtones
du Manitoba Christopher Adams (Probe Research) 

Réflexions sur le développement économique des Métis Gregg Dahl (Bureau de
l'Interlocuteur fédéral auprès des Métis et des Indiens non inscrits) 

Améliorer la santé des Autochtones urbains : connaissances autochtones,
recherche en collaboration et marginalisation urbaine Denielle Elliot (UBC),
Archie Myran et Marian Krawczyk

 

Atelier no 2 - Les défis de la préservation des identités autochtones,
nouveaux arrangements et stratégies de gouvernance pour accroître la
participation des peuples autochtones à la vie politique et culturelle dans
des communautés urbaines culturellement diverses 

De 13 h 30 à 17 h

« Une question plutôt vexatoire...» : le débat fédéral-provincial entourant
la responsabilité constitutionnelles pour les textes des Métis

Nicole O'Byrne (Victoria)

L'autonomie gouvernementale autochtone est-elle possible dans des villes
très diversifiées?

Bradford Morse (Ottawa)

L'autonomie gouvernementale autochtone urbaine à Ottawa, Winnipeg et
Vancouver : tendances, problèmes et perspectives Julie Tomiak (Carleton)

Soins, identité et inclusion dans les sociétés pluralistes : examiner les
conséquences stratégiques pour les Autochtones et de leur part Paul Kershaw
(UBC)

L'initiative cartographique métisse en Colombie-Britannique : vers
l'établissement de relations à long terme entre la communauté autochtone et
l'université Michael Evans (UBC) et Dean Trumbley (Nation des Métis de la

Colombie-Britannique) 

 

Tous peuvent participer aux ateliers; le droit d'entrée est de 15 $ par
atelier, lequel peut être acheté à chaque jour aux tables d'inscription au
Congrès au Student Union Building de l'université de la
Colombie-Britannique. Le nombre de place est limité puisque les activités du
Congrès visent principalement les intérêts des membres des associations se
réunissant lors du Congrès, c'est-à-dire les délégués inscrits au Congrès.
Un certain nombre de droits d'entrée seront réservés pour celles et pour
ceux qui s'autoidentifient à la table d'inscription comme participants aux
ateliers du Réseau de recherche sur les politiques autochtones, mais pour ne
pas être désappointé, prenez votre droit d'entrée tôt à chaque jour.  

Pour celles et ceux qui souhaitent participer au Congrès, les renseignements
pour l'inscription se trouvent à
<http://www.fedcan.ca/congress2008/registration/registration.html>
http://www.fedcan.ca/congress2008/registration/registration.html. 

D'autres renseignements sur le Congrès sont présentés à
<http://www.fedcan.ca/congress2008/> http://www.fedcan.ca/congress2008/.  Un
plan de l'université de la Colombie-Britannique se trouve à
<http://www.maps.ubc.ca/PROD/images/pdf/ubcmap.pdf>
http://www.maps.ubc.ca/PROD/images/pdf/ubcmap.pdf. 

Jodi Bruhn, PhD

Senior Researcher / Chercheure principale

Institute On Governance / Institut sur la gouvernance

122, rue Clarence Street

Ottawa ON  K1N 5P6

Tel./Tél: 613-562-0092 #232

Fax/Télécopieur: 613-562-0097

 <mailto:jbruhn at iog.ca> jbruhn at iog.ca 

 <http://www.iog.ca/> www.iog.ca

 

_________ 

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From phonosemantics at EARTHLINK.NET  Wed May  7 04:39:16 2008
From: phonosemantics at EARTHLINK.NET (jess tauber)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 00:39:16 -0400
Subject: Nez Perce linguistics
Message-ID: <WED.7.MAY.2008.003916.0400.PHONOSEMANTICS@EARTHLINK.NET>

I've been looking through the Aoki et al. dictionary (don't have the grammar on hand but can get to it next week). Verbs are mainly divided into two sets. It's beginning to look as if Aoki's VS set is more about fine, high control activities etc. (the things apparently normally encoded by high tone in Niger Congo languages), though admittedly it will take me a day to compile all the forms. The VC set, on the other hand, seems more about less controlled or finely grained or focused activities (low tone in N-C).

Neighboring Salishan languages are overtly marked for verbal control- is Sahaptian generally recognized to have similar marking, including what I seem to be seeing as above in N.P.? I'm also curious, if this is so, how such marking interacts with vowel harmony, root consonant makeup, aug/dim shifting, and choice of thematic/instrument prefixes.

Has anyone written about this? Thanks.

Jess Tauber
phonosemantics at earthlink.net


From jcrippen at GMAIL.COM  Wed May  7 05:43:19 2008
From: jcrippen at GMAIL.COM (James Crippen)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 19:43:19 -1000
Subject: Learning to speak Tlingit
In-Reply-To: <3966a24c0805052132w4682c35bsf85a305ece0cb40a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.6.MAY.2008.194319.1000.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

2008/5/5 Jordan Lachler <jordanlachler at gmail.com>:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1nPCGpQ86w

Goosú wé Lingít yóo xh'atángi, wéi video tóox'? Ch'u tleix' "Lingít"
xh'axhwa.axhch khu.aa. The video is a disappointment in the end
because other than using the word "Lingít" to index "Tlingitness",
there's no Tlingit language spoken. None at all. Not even "Yéi áyá haa
yóo xh'atángi" or something like it as an introduction.

The video does make a great point, however, one that bothers me a lot.
In my personal experience talking to the various people working in
Tlingit revitalization, there's lots of effort put into learning words
for *things*, but not learning how to actually express meaning. This
is partly because of the complexity of the language (it's really hard
to learn!), partly because its grammar is still not well described
(I'm working as hard as I can!), and partly because of the existing
focus on teaching words and phrases rather than communicative ability
(TPR is not the solution!).

But I fear that this issue will fly over the heads of the people who
it's for, in that they *won't* start to think about how they're
learning to talk. Instead, they'll see this video as reinforcing that
the words and set phrases they've learned is really a sign that
they're using the language.

"I can say the names of all the berries in Tlingit." "I can say 'we
are cutting fish' in Tlingit." But can you say "I don't want to go and
pick berries right now. Instead I want to stay home and watch TV
because my feet hurt" in Tlingit? [1] Why not? What matters more to
you?

People gain lots of pride and empowerment from learning a language,
but then go on to use it only as an occasional token of identity.
People speak the language, but they don't try to speak *in* the
language. They learn lots of words and phrases and such, but don't
ever learn how to even have a basic conversation about something as
dull as what they did last week. The language becomes a mere tool,
nothing any more ornamental than a button blanket. It doesn't get used
out in a boat to ward off the cold, it doesn't get used to pad a rock
for sitting on, it doesn't get used to wipe the steam off of a window.
Instead it only gets taken out for ceremonial occasions, treated
gently and with great respect. It only gets used to say "look here I'm
Tlingit" when the people with money and power are looking, and is
otherwise shoved back in a box for the next time someone needs to show
it off.

The language isn't just some dead at.óowu passed on from elders to be
cherished as a valuable artifact. It's the very life of being, it's
the xh'aséikw of the people. Who cares if it gets used for
introductions in a political speech? Who cares if it gets used at an
immersion camp that cost tens of thousands of dollars to arrange and
only brought twenty people? What really matters is if it gets used in
the kitchen while making dinner, or at the store while buying
potatoes, or in the car while driving to work. It needs to live, not
be some dusty old mask in a box that people only take out to prove
their lineage and status.

My point is that an endangered language like Tlingit isn't just a sign
to index political and social alignment, it's a living thing that
deserves to be used, deserves to have our breath pass through it. If
we're supposed to be revitalizing a language, that means really saying
things with it rather than saying things *about* it. And if people are
going to say things with it, then they need to really learn how to
speak and not just how to read phrases from a book.

I hear the same refrain over and over from people that revitalization
costs too much, that there's just not enough support for it, or that
it takes too much time to really learn to talk. Too often people focus
on how to get money for a project, where the money should come from,
who should control the money, who should control the people who
control the money, ad nauseam. But revitalization shouldn't cost
anything at all. If the language is important enough to save then
people ought to be willing to put their own free time into keeping it
alive, and not worrying about who's going to get the government
cheese. It's not about how to look good, or to gain prestige or power
or money. Revitalization is really about learning to speak the
language because you care about it, because you love it and you love
the people who speak it, and you want to keep that alive. There's no
other reason necessary. Politics, identity, postcolonialism,
education, government, autonomy, history, none of that other crap
matters except for how to get around it so you can get on with keeping
the language spoken.

Yéi áyá axh toowú.
Jéiwsh

[1]: To be fair, here's my attempt: Axh xh'ús' yanéekw yáa yakyee. Ách
áwé, tléil axh toowáa sigóo khukkhwak'eet'. Néilx' yéi xhat natee, TV
kkhwalateen.


From iackerman at ROSETTASTONE.COM  Wed May  7 12:58:55 2008
From: iackerman at ROSETTASTONE.COM (Ackerman, Ilse)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 08:58:55 -0400
Subject: Crossing the Pacific
In-Reply-To: A<1129FD8A7A8E0D418E469D28C1700AFB4397E3@ad-ex-wvcmail.wvc.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.7.MAY.2008.085855.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

 

Has anyone heard of Roland Stevenson?  I met him in Brazil, a Chilean painter. He found support for Pacific crossing from a portrait artist's perspective, by drawing South American and Pacific faces.  I remember drawings of the Pacific --> South America travel routes he had derived.  There is a book out of that work, called Uma Luz nos Mistérios Amazônicos. I don't know how it was received.

 

~ i

 

Ilse Ackerman

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of McMillan, Carol
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 2:01 PM
To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: Re: [ILAT] Crossing the Pacific

 

Fascinating.  Can't believe I haven't heard of this.  Thanks so much.

 

No mention of Rapa Nui, but it would explain the physical appearance of Easter Islanders.  Their language and culture are definitely of Polynesian, but there are also many South American influences (as in the stonework of their platforms or ahus.) Very interesting.

 

Carol 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Daryn McKenny

Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 5:47 PM

To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU

Subject: Re: [ILAT] Crossing the Pacific

 

Hi,

 

I am sure you have all seen this article then, it is an old one:

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/430944.stm

 

I have just attended ILATC and I just felt like I was at home, an amazing place with amazing people on amazing country, just like home. I know we are related, Aboriginal people connect with Aboriginal people.

 

But,we must have had really big trees to make our bark canoes back then though.

 

 

Regards

 

Daryn McKenny

 

Arwarbukarl Cultural Resource Association Inc.

 

Read our Indigenous Language BLOG at http://www.arwarbukarl.net.au/blog/

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of McMillan, Carol

Sent: Tuesday, 6 May 2008 6:11 AM

To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU

Subject: [ILAT] Crossing the Pacific

 

   As a biological anthropologist by training, and being wary of the European penchant for wanting to have "discovered" everything, and having read that even geneticists now say that the aboriginal peoples of Australia had to have had boats at least 40,000 years ago, and having looked at the people of Rapa Nui (Easter Island) vs. other Pacific Islanders, and hearing about the Hawaiian sailing canoes that have recently traveled to Alaska and returned, (and . . . and . . . ) I believe it's time for us all to admit that indigenous people have been traveling by sea for many thousands of years, back and forth between continents.  I'm growing a bit weary of all the who-came-first debates.

Perhaps it's all worth it if European and European-decent scholars in general become less ethnocentric in their world views.  (I'm Scottish, I can say that.)  Maybe the debate shouldn't be about who had the technology and ability to cross large bodies of water, but who was motivated to do it in order to rape/pillage/plunder vs. those who went to trade and/or visit with others.  That focus might put Columbus and others into categories more appropriate to their conduct.

 

Sorry, I just had to weigh in here.

 

Carol McMillan

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From rzs at WILDBLUE.NET  Wed May  7 15:43:11 2008
From: rzs at WILDBLUE.NET (Richard Smith)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 08:43:11 -0700
Subject: re SIL
In-Reply-To: <20080506190253.733B7B2469@lorax.ldc.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.7.MAY.2008.084311.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

thanks for this Bill,
I admit i'm not a trained linguist though i'm having to learn quickly
the wierd  "language of linguists"    (((gag-yuck)))
i'm only a Wyandot tribal member on a path towards our own language
revitalization-recovery,
however even this study has given me new insights into  "word"
and how  "word" evolves meaning as it travels from its origins.
Tracing the spread of Buddhism from India through China into Japan
parallels Judeo-Christianity spreading far from its Mediterranean mooring.
 
To see a Reservation church with a baptismal (stock) tank and walls painted
with date palms,made to simulate (a mythically sparkling clear) Jordan River
 ...amazing

To read the novel-based Siddhartha and then to see the same one represented
as the gold surrounded cubby smiling Buddha in China  is
 ...amazing

To see a smiling portrait of blue-eyed blonde Jesus (the rabbi Yeshua)
surrounded by the earths laughing children of every ethnicity is
...amazing

I imagine if the story of our Wendat "PeaceMaker" had gone and spread into
Europe we Longhouse people would see similar evolution and be thinking wow
 ...amazing

Richard Zane Smith
Wyandotte Oklahoma



On 5/6/08 12:02 PM, "William J Poser" <wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU> wrote:

> A further detail on "Jehovah" is that in our Jewish tradition this
> name, written YHWH in Hebrew, may not be pronounced. Whenever it is
> encountered in the text of the "Old Testament", it is pronounced
> "adonai", which means "lord". (In Modern Hebrew "adon" is "Mister".)
> YHWH is what in some cultures is called a "war name" or "secret name",
> knowledge of which gives power of that individual.
> 
> Bill Poser


From rzs at WILDBLUE.NET  Wed May  7 16:11:36 2008
From: rzs at WILDBLUE.NET (Richard Smith)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 09:11:36 -0700
Subject: Learning to speak Tlingit
In-Reply-To: <caf8a68a0805062243r49fed66arbea5259c6e97160c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <WED.7.MAY.2008.091136.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

James,
This was a fantastic post, and you put it in such good words.
this concerns me alot and I WHOLEHEARTEDLY agree.
To survive our languages need to be used when giving a sacred prayer
OR asking for bug repellent while scratching a mosquito bite.

I'm seeing some native languages already
being pulled out and dusted off ONLY for sacred ceremony
Reduced to an equivalent of Catholic Latin prayers.

Some can give a prayer or a blessing at the right time
but might not actually be able to say
    "My feet hurt"

Richard Zane Smith
Wyandotte Oklahoma


On 5/6/08 10:43 PM, "James Crippen" <jcrippen at GMAIL.COM> wrote:

> 2008/5/5 Jordan Lachler <jordanlachler at gmail.com>:
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1nPCGpQ86w
> 
> Goosú wé Lingít yóo xh'atángi, wéi video tóox'? Ch'u tleix' "Lingít"
> xh'axhwa.axhch khu.aa. The video is a disappointment in the end
> because other than using the word "Lingít" to index "Tlingitness",
> there's no Tlingit language spoken. None at all. Not even "Yéi áyá haa
> yóo xh'atángi" or something like it as an introduction.
> 
> The video does make a great point, however, one that bothers me a lot.
> In my personal experience talking to the various people working in
> Tlingit revitalization, there's lots of effort put into learning words
> for *things*, but not learning how to actually express meaning. This
> is partly because of the complexity of the language (it's really hard
> to learn!), partly because its grammar is still not well described
> (I'm working as hard as I can!), and partly because of the existing
> focus on teaching words and phrases rather than communicative ability
> (TPR is not the solution!).
> 
> But I fear that this issue will fly over the heads of the people who
> it's for, in that they *won't* start to think about how they're
> learning to talk. Instead, they'll see this video as reinforcing that
> the words and set phrases they've learned is really a sign that
> they're using the language.
> 
> "I can say the names of all the berries in Tlingit." "I can say 'we
> are cutting fish' in Tlingit." But can you say "I don't want to go and
> pick berries right now. Instead I want to stay home and watch TV
> because my feet hurt" in Tlingit? [1] Why not? What matters more to
> you?
> 
> People gain lots of pride and empowerment from learning a language,
> but then go on to use it only as an occasional token of identity.
> People speak the language, but they don't try to speak *in* the
> language. They learn lots of words and phrases and such, but don't
> ever learn how to even have a basic conversation about something as
> dull as what they did last week. The language becomes a mere tool,
> nothing any more ornamental than a button blanket. It doesn't get used
> out in a boat to ward off the cold, it doesn't get used to pad a rock
> for sitting on, it doesn't get used to wipe the steam off of a window.
> Instead it only gets taken out for ceremonial occasions, treated
> gently and with great respect. It only gets used to say "look here I'm
> Tlingit" when the people with money and power are looking, and is
> otherwise shoved back in a box for the next time someone needs to show
> it off.
> 
> The language isn't just some dead at.óowu passed on from elders to be
> cherished as a valuable artifact. It's the very life of being, it's
> the xh'aséikw of the people. Who cares if it gets used for
> introductions in a political speech? Who cares if it gets used at an
> immersion camp that cost tens of thousands of dollars to arrange and
> only brought twenty people? What really matters is if it gets used in
> the kitchen while making dinner, or at the store while buying
> potatoes, or in the car while driving to work. It needs to live, not
> be some dusty old mask in a box that people only take out to prove
> their lineage and status.
> 
> My point is that an endangered language like Tlingit isn't just a sign
> to index political and social alignment, it's a living thing that
> deserves to be used, deserves to have our breath pass through it. If
> we're supposed to be revitalizing a language, that means really saying
> things with it rather than saying things *about* it. And if people are
> going to say things with it, then they need to really learn how to
> speak and not just how to read phrases from a book.
> 
> I hear the same refrain over and over from people that revitalization
> costs too much, that there's just not enough support for it, or that
> it takes too much time to really learn to talk. Too often people focus
> on how to get money for a project, where the money should come from,
> who should control the money, who should control the people who
> control the money, ad nauseam. But revitalization shouldn't cost
> anything at all. If the language is important enough to save then
> people ought to be willing to put their own free time into keeping it
> alive, and not worrying about who's going to get the government
> cheese. It's not about how to look good, or to gain prestige or power
> or money. Revitalization is really about learning to speak the
> language because you care about it, because you love it and you love
> the people who speak it, and you want to keep that alive. There's no
> other reason necessary. Politics, identity, postcolonialism,
> education, government, autonomy, history, none of that other crap
> matters except for how to get around it so you can get on with keeping
> the language spoken.
> 
> Yéi áyá axh toowú.
> Jéiwsh
> 
> [1]: To be fair, here's my attempt: Axh xh'ús' yanéekw yáa yakyee. Ách
> áwé, tléil axh toowáa sigóo khukkhwak'eet'. Néilx' yéi xhat natee, TV
> kkhwalateen.


From wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU  Wed May  7 15:05:38 2008
From: wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU (William J Poser)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 11:05:38 -0400
Subject: re SIL
In-Reply-To: <C4471C1F.470C%rzs@wildblue.net>
Message-ID: <WED.7.MAY.2008.110538.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

>To see a smiling portrait of blue-eyed blonde Jesus (the rabbi Yeshua)
>surrounded by the earths laughing children of every ethnicity is
>...amazing

I've always liked the statement by a particularly ignorant English-only
advocate that "If English was good enough for Jesus it should be
good enough for us."

Bill


From rrlapier at AOL.COM  Wed May  7 15:14:54 2008
From: rrlapier at AOL.COM (rrlapier at AOL.COM)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 11:14:54 -0400
Subject: Learning to speak Tlingit
In-Reply-To: <caf8a68a0805062243r49fed66arbea5259c6e97160c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <WED.7.MAY.2008.111454.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

I am hoping that some languages are in a dormant phase. 

I absolutely agree with the observations that you address in your commentary. For some, language has become ornamental, like heritage clothing or jewlery, you only hear it when the powwow princess introduces herself. 

But I am hoping that for those of us working in the field, all five of us (ha ha), that we can leave behind some documentation (with our research) and a few second language speakers (through our school), that can serve as resources for the future generation that may become interested. Because, let's face it, most of the current generation are not interested. But again, I have hope for the future, that if we work to provide resources for them, they will not have to work as hard.

So, I agree to keep the language alive you need everyday speakers of the language. But to pass through the dormant phase we need documentation, very good documentation, for those who will come after us. 

Rosalyn LaPier
Piegan Institute




-----Original Message-----
From: James Crippen <jcrippen at GMAIL.COM>
To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Sent: Tue, 6 May 2008 11:43 pm
Subject: Re: [ILAT] Learning to speak Tlingit



2008/5/5 Jordan Lachler <jordanlachler at gmail.com>:
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1nPCGpQ86w
Goosú wé Lingít yóo xh'atángi, wéi video tóox'? Ch'u tleix' "Lingít"
h'axhwa.axhch khu.aa. The video is a disappointment in the end
ecause other than using the word "Lingít" to index "Tlingitness",
here's no Tlingit language spoken. None at all. Not even "Yéi áyá haa
óo xh'atángi" or something like it as an introduction.
The video does make a great point, however, one that bothers me a lot.
n my personal experience talking to the various people working in
lingit revitalization, there's lots of effort put into learning words
or *things*, but not learning how to actually express meaning. This
s partly because of the complexity of the language (it's really hard
o learn!), partly because its grammar is still not well described
I'm working as hard as I can!), and partly because of the existing
ocus on teaching words and phrases rather than communicative ability
TPR is not the solution!).
But I fear that this issue will fly over the heads of the people who
t's for, in that they *won't* start to think about how they're
earning to talk. Instead, they'll see this video as reinforcing that
he words and set phrases they've learned is really a sign that
hey're using the language.
"I can say the names of all the berries in Tlingit." "I can say 'we
re cutting fish' in Tlingit." But can you say "I don't want to go and
ick berries right now. Instead I want to stay home and watch TV
ecause my feet hurt" in Tlingit? [1] Why not? What matters more to
ou?
People gain lots of pride and empowerment from learning a language,
ut then go on to use it only as an occasional token of identity.
eople speak the language, but they don't try to speak *in* the
anguage. They learn lots of words and phrases and such, but don't
ver learn how to even have a basic conversation about something as
ull as what they did last week. The language becomes a mere tool,
othing any more ornamental than a button blanket. It doesn't get used
ut in a boat to ward off the cold, it doesn't get used to pad a rock
or sitting on, it doesn't get used to wipe the steam off of a window.
nstead it only gets taken out for ceremonial occasions, treated
ently and with great respect. It only gets used to say "look here I'm
lingit" when the people with money and power are looking, and is
therwise shoved back in a box for the next time someone needs to show
t off.
The language isn't just some dead at.óowu passed on from elders to be
herished as a valuable artifact. It's the very life of being, it's
he xh'aséikw of the people. Who cares if it gets used for
ntroductions in a political speech? Who cares if it gets used at an
mmersion camp that cost tens of thousands of dollars to arrange and
nly brought twenty people? What really matters is if it gets used in
he kitchen while making dinner, or at the store while buying
otatoes, or in the car while driving to work. It needs to live, not
e some dusty old mask in a box that people only take out to prove
heir lineage and status.
My point is that an endangered language like Tlingit isn't just a sign
o index political and social alignment, it's a living thing that
eserves to be used, deserves to have our breath pass through it. If
e're supposed to be revitalizing a language, that means really saying
hings with it rather than saying things *about* it. And if people are
oing to say things with it, then they need to really learn how to
peak and not just how to read phrases from a book.
I hear the same refrain over and over from people that revitalization
osts too much, that there's just not enough support for it, or that
t takes too much time to really learn to talk. Too often people focus
n how to get money for a project, where the money should come from,
ho should control the money, who should control the people who
ontrol the money, ad nauseam. But revitalization shouldn't cost
nything at all. If the language is important enough to save then
eople ought to be willing to put their own free time into keeping it
live, and not worrying about who's going to get the government
heese. It's not about how to look good, or to gain prestige or power
r money. Revitalization is really about learning to speak the
anguage because you care about it, because you love it and you love
he people who speak it, and you want to keep that alive. There's no
ther reason necessary. Politics, identity, postcolonialism,
ducation, government, autonomy, history, none of that other crap
atters except for how to get around it so you can get on with keeping
he language spoken.
Yéi áyá axh toowú.
éiwsh
[1]: To be fair, here's my attempt: Axh xh'ús' yanéekw yáa yakyee. Ách
wé, tléil axh toowáa sigóo khukkhwak'eet'. Néilx' yéi xhat natee, TV
khwalateen.

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From rtroike at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Wed May  7 17:49:09 2008
From: rtroike at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (Rudy Troike)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 10:49:09 -0700
Subject: James Crippen's message
In-Reply-To: <ILAT%200805070007224982.0209@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Message-ID: <WED.7.MAY.2008.104909.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

James Crippen's valuable message deserves to be widely disseminated among
communities interested in language preservation/revival/restoration. The
educational model which language teaching in schools has created, that 
learning
a language is just learning a few labels for "things", really militates 
against
the success of such efforts. It is unfortunate that interest too often 
devolves
into concern only for the availability of money. In the past, communities
receiving funding for schools from the BIA paid no attention to language until
special funding for bilingual education came along. When the special funds
declined or disappeared, so did interest and materials. As James points out,
the best way for a language to be preserved is the natural way of placing
young children with native speakers (grandparents where possible) for extended
periods. The cost would be minimal, compared to the large grants that 
have been
sought and used in other ways while children were being ignored and fluent
speakers were passing away. Of course situations may vary in different 
communi-
ties, so that this most natural and best resource may no longer be available,
or there is interest in learning on the part of adults (who have lost the
best language-learning years of their lives), or the language may need to be
restored altogether, but it is sad that inappropriate models of language
learning and teaching may doom well-intentioned efforts to meaninglessness.

    Rudy Troike


From rzs at WILDBLUE.NET  Wed May  7 19:51:30 2008
From: rzs at WILDBLUE.NET (Richard Smith)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 12:51:30 -0700
Subject: re SIL
In-Reply-To: <20080507150538.1D258B2471@lorax.ldc.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.7.MAY.2008.125130.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

'course King James English is even holier.

A church out here in NE Oklahoma right now
has a sign out front  "Believe in him who liveth forever"
that word "liveth"   -   doesn't that just says it all?

There was another church sign here in Wyandotte OK.
that once posted:   " Worship in Wyandotte!"
As a Wyandot language nut reading it a different way
I could only say "AMEN!"

some of you probably noticed
the subtitles to the wonderful film "Four Sheets to the Wind"
notifies:  "foreign language" whenever the Creek language
was being spoken.     that kinda says it all too...
I told my wife as she giggled..."well I guess those Creeks are
kinda foreign - they DO live in SOUTHERN Oklahoma"

words ...words...  
often reveal more than they're meant to say

Rzs
Wyandotte Oklahoma



On 5/7/08 8:05 AM, "William J Poser" <wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU> wrote:

>> To see a smiling portrait of blue-eyed blonde Jesus (the rabbi Yeshua)
>> surrounded by the earths laughing children of every ethnicity is
>> ...amazing
> 
> I've always liked the statement by a particularly ignorant English-only
> advocate that "If English was good enough for Jesus it should be
> good enough for us."
> 
> Bill


From CMcMillan at WVC.EDU  Wed May  7 19:10:12 2008
From: CMcMillan at WVC.EDU (McMillan, Carol)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 12:10:12 -0700
Subject: re SIL
In-Reply-To: A<20080507150538.1D258B2471@lorax.ldc.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.7.MAY.2008.121012.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

:-)

Love it!  I may have to use that quote.  Do you have the actual source?
S/he deserves to be quoted.

Carol 

-----Original Message-----
From: Indigenous Languages and Technology
[mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of William J Poser
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 8:06 AM
To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: Re: [ILAT] re SIL

>To see a smiling portrait of blue-eyed blonde Jesus (the rabbi Yeshua) 
>surrounded by the earths laughing children of every ethnicity is 
>...amazing

I've always liked the statement by a particularly ignorant English-only
advocate that "If English was good enough for Jesus it should be good
enough for us."

Bill


From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Wed May  7 19:16:40 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 12:16:40 -0700
Subject: Endangered Cultures, Endangered Languages (via YouTube)
Message-ID: <WED.7.MAY.2008.121640.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Thanks Jordan L. for bringing our attention to the presence of language-based
videos posted on YouTube (re: Tlingit) and for James C. for offering a
critique.

I just wanted to follow up and suggest that people take a look at:

Endangered Cultures, Endangered Languages
http://www.youtube.com/user/weyiiletpu

I created this YouTube site to celebrate UNESCO's International Year of
Languages (and partly to take my own advice on advocacy!) and as a simple way
to promote the awareness of language endangerment.

Also, without realizing it until lately, the new media culture of directing
one's self gaze thru video (YouTube's subtitle "broadcast yourself") raises a
number of interesting though unexplored questions for endangered language
communities worldwide.

As a first impression, it seems like six-degrees-of-separation collapsed and
intimacy stolen when viewing things like an aboriginal funeral ceremony from
Australia or a sacred Karuk (northern California) dance (see commenter's
protests), etc..  Too, my mouth drops open in awe, when viewing footage of
Leonard Crow Dog speaking Lakota during the AIM uprising of the 1970s
(strangely enough, my link and the film clip have mysteriously disappeared from
YouTube).  Even more cool is the 1930s footage of northern Plateau and Plains
men speaking in the North American Indian sign language.  But I am just giving
first impressions here.

As many of you are well aware, the consumption of the exotic and the ongoing
media transformations have made YouTube attractive to some and luring to many
indigenous youth.  But as a form of advocacy, I tend to see venues like YouTube
becoming more acceptable as the price of consumer video/computer equipment
continues to fall accompanied by an ever increasing access to the internet. 
Already, we are beginning to see some adventurous filmmakers and language
advocates taking advantage of this medium to promote language learning, culture
sharing, and rights advocacy.  The down side is the loss of privacy and the
virtual shock of the new (just to name a few).

Anyway, I hope the collection of clips via YouTube are of interest.  Take a look
at the "UN Global Indigenous Women's Caucus" clip and the "UN Youth Caucus" clip
regarding the recent The United Nations Permanent Forum on Indigenous Issues on
language.

Phil Cash Cash
UofA


From delancey at UOREGON.EDU  Wed May  7 19:17:17 2008
From: delancey at UOREGON.EDU (Scott DeLancey)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 12:17:17 -0700
Subject: re SIL
In-Reply-To: <1129FD8A7A8E0D418E469D28C1700AFB4397ED@ad-ex-wvcmail.wvc.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.7.MAY.2008.121717.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

> Love it!  I may have to use that quote.  Do you have the actual source?
> S/he deserves to be quoted.

This story has been around all my life (which is getting to be
quite awhile), and probably longer--I can certainly remember
hearing it in junior high school.  It gets quoted a lot, I'll
bet you can find thousands of instances on google.  You'll find 
it attributed to all kinds of folks--usually small-town ministers
or state legislators in one of those states that the rest of us
like to make fun of.  There might actually be a true source, way
back in the dim past, but I kind of doubt it, it has a pretty
apocryphal odor about it.

Scott DeLancey

> :-)
>
>
> Carol
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Indigenous Languages and Technology
> [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of William J Poser
> Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 8:06 AM
> To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [ILAT] re SIL
>
>> To see a smiling portrait of blue-eyed blonde Jesus (the rabbi Yeshua)
>> surrounded by the earths laughing children of every ethnicity is
>> ...amazing
>
> I've always liked the statement by a particularly ignorant English-only
> advocate that "If English was good enough for Jesus it should be good
> enough for us."
>
> Bill
>
>


From iackerman at ROSETTASTONE.COM  Wed May  7 19:31:03 2008
From: iackerman at ROSETTASTONE.COM (Ackerman, Ilse)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 15:31:03 -0400
Subject: re SIL
In-Reply-To: A<Pine.LNX.4.64.0805071212330.30518@shell.uoregon.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.7.MAY.2008.153103.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

 

I saw a variant of this on an email that was circulating five years ago.
The email was an argument for immigrants to the U.S. to learn English.
The final clincher statement was "If English was good enough for the
Bible, it's good enough for the rest of us!"

 

~ i

 

Ilse Ackerman

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Indigenous Languages and Technology
[mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Scott DeLancey
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 3:17 PM
To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: Re: [ILAT] re SIL

 

> Love it!  I may have to use that quote.  Do you have the actual
source?

> S/he deserves to be quoted.

 

This story has been around all my life (which is getting to be

quite awhile), and probably longer--I can certainly remember

hearing it in junior high school.  It gets quoted a lot, I'll

bet you can find thousands of instances on google.  You'll find 

it attributed to all kinds of folks--usually small-town ministers

or state legislators in one of those states that the rest of us

like to make fun of.  There might actually be a true source, way

back in the dim past, but I kind of doubt it, it has a pretty

apocryphal odor about it.

 

Scott DeLancey

 

> :-)

> 

> 

> Carol

> 

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Indigenous Languages and Technology

> [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of William J Poser

> Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 8:06 AM

> To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU

> Subject: Re: [ILAT] re SIL

> 

>> To see a smiling portrait of blue-eyed blonde Jesus (the rabbi
Yeshua)

>> surrounded by the earths laughing children of every ethnicity is

>> ...amazing

> 

> I've always liked the statement by a particularly ignorant
English-only

> advocate that "If English was good enough for Jesus it should be good

> enough for us."

> 

> Bill

> 

> 

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From ted.moomaw at COLVILLETRIBES.COM  Wed May  7 20:10:59 2008
From: ted.moomaw at COLVILLETRIBES.COM (Ted Moomaw)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 14:10:59 -0600
Subject: Learning to speak Tlingit
In-Reply-To: <caf8a68a0805062243r49fed66arbea5259c6e97160c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <WED.7.MAY.2008.141059.0600.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

I am okanogan from eastern Washington, I have worked at our lang. program
7-8 years, and it is my thought or perception that verb conjugation was
thought of as to difficult, also tenses and possesives,  it is from my own
experience in teaching that when you teach the conj. as part of your vocab
people will be able to communicate, w/out conj. there is no communication.
xwistsmxikn
Ted Moomaw

-----Original Message-----
From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU]
On Behalf Of James Crippen
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 11:43 PM
To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: Re: [ILAT] Learning to speak Tlingit

2008/5/5 Jordan Lachler <jordanlachler at gmail.com>:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1nPCGpQ86w

Goosú wé Lingít yóo xh'atángi, wéi video tóox'? Ch'u tleix' "Lingít"
xh'axhwa.axhch khu.aa. The video is a disappointment in the end
because other than using the word "Lingít" to index "Tlingitness",
there's no Tlingit language spoken. None at all. Not even "Yéi áyá haa
yóo xh'atángi" or something like it as an introduction.

The video does make a great point, however, one that bothers me a lot.
In my personal experience talking to the various people working in
Tlingit revitalization, there's lots of effort put into learning words
for *things*, but not learning how to actually express meaning. This
is partly because of the complexity of the language (it's really hard
to learn!), partly because its grammar is still not well described
(I'm working as hard as I can!), and partly because of the existing
focus on teaching words and phrases rather than communicative ability
(TPR is not the solution!).

But I fear that this issue will fly over the heads of the people who
it's for, in that they *won't* start to think about how they're
learning to talk. Instead, they'll see this video as reinforcing that
the words and set phrases they've learned is really a sign that
they're using the language.

"I can say the names of all the berries in Tlingit." "I can say 'we
are cutting fish' in Tlingit." But can you say "I don't want to go and
pick berries right now. Instead I want to stay home and watch TV
because my feet hurt" in Tlingit? [1] Why not? What matters more to
you?

People gain lots of pride and empowerment from learning a language,
but then go on to use it only as an occasional token of identity.
People speak the language, but they don't try to speak *in* the
language. They learn lots of words and phrases and such, but don't
ever learn how to even have a basic conversation about something as
dull as what they did last week. The language becomes a mere tool,
nothing any more ornamental than a button blanket. It doesn't get used
out in a boat to ward off the cold, it doesn't get used to pad a rock
for sitting on, it doesn't get used to wipe the steam off of a window.
Instead it only gets taken out for ceremonial occasions, treated
gently and with great respect. It only gets used to say "look here I'm
Tlingit" when the people with money and power are looking, and is
otherwise shoved back in a box for the next time someone needs to show
it off.

The language isn't just some dead at.óowu passed on from elders to be
cherished as a valuable artifact. It's the very life of being, it's
the xh'aséikw of the people. Who cares if it gets used for
introductions in a political speech? Who cares if it gets used at an
immersion camp that cost tens of thousands of dollars to arrange and
only brought twenty people? What really matters is if it gets used in
the kitchen while making dinner, or at the store while buying
potatoes, or in the car while driving to work. It needs to live, not
be some dusty old mask in a box that people only take out to prove
their lineage and status.

My point is that an endangered language like Tlingit isn't just a sign
to index political and social alignment, it's a living thing that
deserves to be used, deserves to have our breath pass through it. If
we're supposed to be revitalizing a language, that means really saying
things with it rather than saying things *about* it. And if people are
going to say things with it, then they need to really learn how to
speak and not just how to read phrases from a book.

I hear the same refrain over and over from people that revitalization
costs too much, that there's just not enough support for it, or that
it takes too much time to really learn to talk. Too often people focus
on how to get money for a project, where the money should come from,
who should control the money, who should control the people who
control the money, ad nauseam. But revitalization shouldn't cost
anything at all. If the language is important enough to save then
people ought to be willing to put their own free time into keeping it
alive, and not worrying about who's going to get the government
cheese. It's not about how to look good, or to gain prestige or power
or money. Revitalization is really about learning to speak the
language because you care about it, because you love it and you love
the people who speak it, and you want to keep that alive. There's no
other reason necessary. Politics, identity, postcolonialism,
education, government, autonomy, history, none of that other crap
matters except for how to get around it so you can get on with keeping
the language spoken.

Yéi áyá axh toowú.
Jéiwsh

[1]: To be fair, here's my attempt: Axh xh'ús' yanéekw yáa yakyee. Ách
áwé, tléil axh toowáa sigóo khukkhwak'eet'. Néilx' yéi xhat natee, TV
kkhwalateen.


From delancey at UOREGON.EDU  Wed May  7 20:54:53 2008
From: delancey at UOREGON.EDU (Scott DeLancey)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 13:54:53 -0700
Subject: Nez Perce linguistics
In-Reply-To: <26923346.1210135157296.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hound.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <WED.7.MAY.2008.135453.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

This is apparently a recent development in Nez Perce,
representing two different developments of an old frozen
imperfective *-s suffix.  The c-stems originally had final
*-n, and the modern /c/ < *ns.  Swadesh figured it out a long
time ago, Noel Rude has written about it.  Some of those final
*-n may have been morphological and meaningful, but probably
not all of them.

Scott DeLancey

On Wed, 7 May 2008, jess tauber wrote:

> I've been looking through the Aoki et al. dictionary (don't have the
> grammar on hand but can get to it next week). Verbs are mainly divided 
> into two sets. It's beginning to look as if Aoki's VS set is more about 
> fine, high control activities etc. (the things apparently normally 
> encoded by high tone in Niger Congo languages), though admittedly it 
> will take me a day to compile all the forms. The VC set, on the other
> hand, seems more about less controlled or finely grained or focused 
>activities (low tone in N-C).
>
> Neighboring Salishan languages are overtly marked for verbal control- is
> Sahaptian generally recognized to have similar marking, including what I 
> seem to be seeing as above in N.P.? I'm also curious, if this is so, how 
> such marking interacts with vowel harmony, root consonant makeup, 
> aug/dim shifting, and choice of thematic/instrument prefixes.
>
> Has anyone written about this? Thanks.
>
> Jess Tauber
> phonosemantics at earthlink.net
>
>


From delancey at UOREGON.EDU  Wed May  7 21:01:11 2008
From: delancey at UOREGON.EDU (Scott DeLancey)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 14:01:11 -0700
Subject: Learning to speak Tlingit
In-Reply-To: <002001c8b07e$77960f30$3e5e640a@36451320001>
Message-ID: <WED.7.MAY.2008.140111.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

On Wed, 7 May 2008, Ted Moomaw wrote:

> I am okanogan from eastern Washington, I have worked at our lang. program
> 7-8 years, and it is my thought or perception that verb conjugation was
> thought of as to difficult, also tenses and possesives,  it is from my own
> experience in teaching that when you teach the conj. as part of your vocab
> people will be able to communicate, w/out conj. there is no communication.
> xwistsmxikn

I completely agree with this.  People have trouble memorizing the
conjugations of Spanish or German, and nowadays language teachers
agree that that's too hard for most people, and not the way to teach
the language.  And in so many Native languages (definitely both Tlingit
and Salish!) the verb is so incredibly more complicated than in
European languages, there's just no way in the world anybody is
going to memorize that.  You have to teach one form at a time--
teach folks how to say what they're trying to say at the moment,
or for that lesson.

Scott DeLancey


From jcrippen at GMAIL.COM  Wed May  7 21:43:15 2008
From: jcrippen at GMAIL.COM (James Crippen)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 11:43:15 -1000
Subject: Learning to speak Tlingit
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0805071358190.30518@shell.uoregon.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.7.MAY.2008.114315.1000.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 11:01 AM, Scott DeLancey <delancey at uoregon.edu> wrote:
> On Wed, 7 May 2008, Ted Moomaw wrote:
>
>
> > I am okanogan from eastern Washington, I have worked at our lang. program
> > 7-8 years, and it is my thought or perception that verb conjugation was
> > thought of as to difficult, also tenses and possesives,  it is from my own
> > experience in teaching that when you teach the conj. as part of your vocab
> > people will be able to communicate, w/out conj. there is no communication.
> > xwistsmxikn
> >
>
>  I completely agree with this.  People have trouble memorizing the
>  conjugations of Spanish or German, and nowadays language teachers
>  agree that that's too hard for most people, and not the way to teach
>  the language.  And in so many Native languages (definitely both Tlingit
>  and Salish!) the verb is so incredibly more complicated than in
>  European languages, there's just no way in the world anybody is
>  going to memorize that.  You have to teach one form at a time--
>  teach folks how to say what they're trying to say at the moment,
>  or for that lesson.

This works for teaching at the beginning and even low intermediate
levels, but once you get to the stage where people want to be creative
with their language use, they've got to learn grammar. The issues of
inclusion of grammar into the curriculum is a well researched topic in
second language teaching, and many of the strongest teaching
approaches and methods incorporate grammar lessons as an integral part
of the curriculum.

In dealing with very complex grammars like we find in North American
languages, grammar needs to be taught even more so than in more
commonly taught languages. However, people have the archaic idea that
grammar is supposed to be taught like old high school Latin classes,
where people memorize long tables of conjugation patterns and recite
them from memory. This type of teaching is highly inefficient as well
as boring for both student and teacher.

Instead, it's better to take one single, specific conjugation pattern
(e.g. 1st/2nd/3rd singular subject perfective for intransitives) and
teach it in the context of a number of different verbs. Show the
students how it works in these different verbal environments, and let
them generalize a rule themselves rather than shoving one down their
throats. If they don't get it at first, give them more verbs with the
same form. They have to learn to see the patterns for themselves.

Learning to make such rule generalizations from patterns is part of
the process of linguistic analysis, and it's also an essential part of
the language learning process. Without learning to generalize from
patterns you won't be able to expand your verbal lexicon. This is the
way I was taught both Russian and Japanese, and I've successfully
applied the same sort of reasoning to my learning of Tlingit.

It takes a while for people to get used to thinking in terms of
patterns and predicted rules, but eventually nearly everyone gets the
hang of it and they get a great sense of accomplishment when they are
finally able to use a word they've never heard before and produce a
coherent, meaningful sentence with it. This is the major step where a
student passes from a beginning student to an intermediate student,
when they have enough grasp of rules to start making novel sentences
on their own. Unless this hurdle is passed, students will remain
beginners no matter how much vocabulary they learn.

James


From hsouter at GMAIL.COM  Wed May  7 22:31:51 2008
From: hsouter at GMAIL.COM (Heather Souter)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 17:31:51 -0500
Subject: Learning to speak Tlingit
In-Reply-To: <caf8a68a0805071443x2577cbc1s5c984e1cba18d192@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <WED.7.MAY.2008.173151.0500.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Taanshi, James,

Kihchi-maarsii pur tii parol!  Kwayeeshk kiiya.  Mitoni nishtohteen
ee-itweeyeen.
Thank-you for your words!  You are right.  I really understand what you are
saying.

I appreciated your concrete suggestion about how to teach
grammar--especially verbs-- in a communicative/discovery-oriented
manner. Although I am interested in the linguistics of my language (as much
as I almost hate to admit it!), my passion is to create teaching/learning
materials that will help people learn communicate with each other--and not
just with stock phrases!  I dream of hearing Metis people joke with, get
made at and  tease each other in Michif not only at conferences and major
gatherings but in their homes, in the store and on the street....

Eekushi pitamaa.  That is all for now.
Heather



On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 4:43 PM, James Crippen <jcrippen at gmail.com> wrote:

>  On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 11:01 AM, Scott DeLancey <delancey at uoregon.edu>
> wrote:
> > On Wed, 7 May 2008, Ted Moomaw wrote:
> >
> >
> > > I am okanogan from eastern Washington, I have worked at our lang.
> program
> > > 7-8 years, and it is my thought or perception that verb conjugation
> was
> > > thought of as to difficult, also tenses and possesives,  it is from my
> own
> > > experience in teaching that when you teach the conj. as part of your
> vocab
> > > people will be able to communicate, w/out conj. there is no
> communication.
> > > xwistsmxikn
> > >
> >
> >  I completely agree with this.  People have trouble memorizing the
> >  conjugations of Spanish or German, and nowadays language teachers
> >  agree that that's too hard for most people, and not the way to teach
> >  the language.  And in so many Native languages (definitely both Tlingit
> >  and Salish!) the verb is so incredibly more complicated than in
> >  European languages, there's just no way in the world anybody is
> >  going to memorize that.  You have to teach one form at a time--
> >  teach folks how to say what they're trying to say at the moment,
> >  or for that lesson.
>
> This works for teaching at the beginning and even low intermediate
> levels, but once you get to the stage where people want to be creative
> with their language use, they've got to learn grammar. The issues of
> inclusion of grammar into the curriculum is a well researched topic in
> second language teaching, and many of the strongest teaching
> approaches and methods incorporate grammar lessons as an integral part
> of the curriculum.
>
> In dealing with very complex grammars like we find in North American
> languages, grammar needs to be taught even more so than in more
> commonly taught languages. However, people have the archaic idea that
> grammar is supposed to be taught like old high school Latin classes,
> where people memorize long tables of conjugation patterns and recite
> them from memory. This type of teaching is highly inefficient as well
> as boring for both student and teacher.
>
> Instead, it's better to take one single, specific conjugation pattern
> (e.g. 1st/2nd/3rd singular subject perfective for intransitives) and
> teach it in the context of a number of different verbs. Show the
> students how it works in these different verbal environments, and let
> them generalize a rule themselves rather than shoving one down their
> throats. If they don't get it at first, give them more verbs with the
> same form. They have to learn to see the patterns for themselves.
>
> Learning to make such rule generalizations from patterns is part of
> the process of linguistic analysis, and it's also an essential part of
> the language learning process. Without learning to generalize from
> patterns you won't be able to expand your verbal lexicon. This is the
> way I was taught both Russian and Japanese, and I've successfully
> applied the same sort of reasoning to my learning of Tlingit.
>
> It takes a while for people to get used to thinking in terms of
> patterns and predicted rules, but eventually nearly everyone gets the
> hang of it and they get a great sense of accomplishment when they are
> finally able to use a word they've never heard before and produce a
> coherent, meaningful sentence with it. This is the major step where a
> student passes from a beginning student to an intermediate student,
> when they have enough grasp of rules to start making novel sentences
> on their own. Unless this hurdle is passed, students will remain
> beginners no matter how much vocabulary they learn.
>
> James
>
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From dzo at BISHARAT.NET  Thu May  8 02:20:41 2008
From: dzo at BISHARAT.NET (Don Osborn)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 22:20:41 -0400
Subject: NHLRC & the Heritage Languages SIG at ACTFL (proposed)
Message-ID: <WED.7.MAY.2008.222041.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

FYI. A call for support and a brief explanation from Kathleen Dillon in
response to my request for more info.

 

-----------

 The National Heritage Language Resource Center, which is promoting the new
ACTFL SIG,  is working on behalf of all the language groups in this country
and is especially interested in the preservation and advancement of the
LCTLs. Please take a look at our website to learn more about our activities.

 

http://www.international.ucla.edu/languages/nhlrc/

 

 

 

From: owner-lgpolicy-list at ccat.sas.upenn.edu
[mailto:owner-lgpolicy-list at ccat.sas.upenn.edu] On Behalf Of Kathleen Dillon
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 2:32 PM
To: lgpolicy-list at ccat.sas.upenn.edu
Subject: Heritage Languages Special Interest Group (SIG)

 

PLEASE VOTE IN SUPPORT OF AN ACTFL HERITAGE SPECIAL INTEREST GROUP

 

ACTFL has established Special Interest Groups (SIGs) to provide continuous
networking and information sharing on a specific topic or area of interest
to a subset of ACTFL's overall membership.  SIGs conduct annual meetings at
the ACTFL conference. 

 

Please support the establishment of a SIG (Special Interest Group) for
Heritage Language Teaching. If 100 ACTFL members vote in support of this
action, a SIG will be set up. 

 

Cast you vote of support at

http://www.actfl.org/i4a/forms/form.cfm?id=100

 

 

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From rzs at WILDBLUE.NET  Thu May  8 16:13:09 2008
From: rzs at WILDBLUE.NET (Richard Smith)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 09:13:09 -0700
Subject: Learning to speak Tlingit
In-Reply-To: <8CA7E6C3C64338B-11A8-5014@webmail-nd15.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <THU.8.MAY.2008.091309.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Rosalyn,
thanks for sharing this about dormancy
I find similar "lack" of deep interest here too among tribal members.
Keeping focus upon the future generations is sometimes the only thing
that keeps me wading through resources and trying to compile stems
and trying to get our linguists to atleast TALK with one another...
There is even a mindset among tribal authorities that the language
will NEVER come back as a spoken language...so there is no sense of urgency.
sometimes I feel like zeal for recovery is merely tolerated as fantasy.

I have so many "what's the use!" moments here.......
What is a hands-on artist craftsman like me doing anyway tangling with
insurmountable tasks of this work with words and computers?
Just reading your own words encourages me
I want to apologize if i ever sound like i'm hunting for blame targets
 here on this forum. Warrior blood sometimes stirs in me, but
blame never builds anything...and is distracting from our goals.
I hope what might sound like blame, is only grief reacting
like stunned people coming out of their cellars after a tornado
trying to understand how we could have lost so much.

Hamendizhu' ayömatëdutöh tsatrihute
taskwanöht nöma këtatih hamëtayeh d'iyawishra'  de yarohniyeh
nesha d'iyawishra' d' aömetsayeh

Creator (All-Power) I ask of you - listen
give us all this day(count)  strength of the "heavens"
and also the strength of the earth

-Richard Zane Smith
  Sohahiyoh
Wyandotte Oklahoma



On 5/7/08 8:14 AM, "rrlapier at AOL.COM" <rrlapier at AOL.COM> wrote:

> I am hoping that some languages are in a dormant phase.
> 
> I absolutely agree with the observations that you address in your commentary.
> For some, language has become ornamental, like heritage clothing or jewlery,
> you only hear it when the powwow princess introduces herself.
> 
> But I am hoping that for those of us working in the field, all five of us (ha
> ha), that we can leave behind some documentation (with our research) and a few
> second language speakers (through our school), that can serve as resources for
> the future generation that may become interested. Because, let's face it, most
> of the current generation are not interested. But again, I have hope for the
> future, that if we work to provide resources for them, they will not have to
> work as hard.
> 
> So, I agree to keep the language alive you need everyday speakers of the
> language. But to pass through the dormant phase we need documentation, very
> good documentation, for those who will come after us.
> 
> Rosalyn LaPier
> Piegan Institute
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: James Crippen <jcrippen at GMAIL.COM>
> To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
> Sent: Tue, 6 May 2008 11:43 pm
> Subject: Re: [ILAT] Learning to speak Tlingit
> 
> 2008/5/5 Jordan Lachler <jordanlachler at gmail.com>:
>> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1nPCGpQ86w
> 
> Goosú wé Lingít yóo xh'atángi, wéi video tóox'? Ch'u tleix' "Lingít"
> xh'axhwa.axhch khu.aa. The video is a disappointment in the end
> because other than using the word "Lingít" to index "Tlingitness",
> there's no Tlingit language spoken. None at all. Not even "Yéi áyá haa
> yóo xh'atángi" or something like it as an introduction.
> 
> The video does make a great point, however, one that bothers me a lot.
> In my personal experience talking to the various people working in
> Tlingit revitalization, there's lots of effort put into learning words
> for *things*, but not learning how to actually express meaning. This
> is partly because of the complexity of the language (it's really hard
> to learn!), partly because its grammar is still not well described
> (I'm working as hard as I can!), and partly because of the existing
> focus on teaching words and phrases rather than communicative ability
> (TPR is not the solution!).
> 
> But I fear that this issue will fly over the heads of the people who
> it's for, in that they *won't* start to think about how they're
> learning to talk. Instead, they'll see this video as reinforcing that
> the words and set phrases they've learned is really a sign that
> they're using the language.
> 
> "I can say the names of all the berries in Tlingit." "I can say 'we
> are cutting fish' in Tlingit." But can you say "I don't want to go and
> pick berries right now. Instead I want to stay home and watch TV
> because my feet hurt" in Tlingit? [1] Why not? What matters more to
> you?
> 
> People gain lots of pride and empowerment from learning a language,
> but then go on to use it only as an occasional token of identity.
> People speak the language, but they don't try to speak *in* the
> language. They learn lots of words and phrases and such, but don't
> ever learn how to even have a basic conversation about something as
> dull as what they did last week. The language becomes a mere tool,
> nothing any more ornamental than a button blanket. It doesn't get used
> out in a boat to ward off the cold, it doesn't get used to pad a rock
> for sitting on, it doesn't get used to wipe the steam off of a window.
> Instead it only gets taken out for ceremonial occasions, treated
> gently and with great respect. It only gets used to say "look here I'm
> Tlingit" when the people with money and power are looking, and is
> otherwise shoved back in a box for the next time someone needs to show
> it off.
> 
> The language isn't just some dead at.óowu passed on from elders to be
> cherished as a valuable artifact. It's the very life of being, it's
> the xh'aséikw of the people. Who cares if it gets used for
> introductions in a political speech? Who cares if it gets used at an
> immersion camp that cost tens of thousands of dollars to arrange and
> only brought twenty people? What really matters is if it gets used in
> the kitchen while making dinner, or at the store while buying
> potatoes, or in the car while driving to work. It needs to live, not
> be some dusty old mask in a box that people only take out to prove
> their lineage and status.
> 
> My point is that an endangered language like Tlingit isn't just a sign
> to index political and social alignment, it's a living thing that
> deserves to be used, deserves to have our breath pass through it. If
> we're supposed to be revitalizing a language, that means really saying
> things with it rather than saying things *about* it. And if people are
> going to say things with it, then they need to really learn how to
> speak and not just how to read phrases from a book.
> 
> I hear the same refrain over and over from people that revitalization
> costs too much, that there's just not enough support for it, or that
> it takes too much time to really learn to talk. Too often people focus
> on how to get money for a project, where the money should come from,
> who should control the money, who should control the people who
> control the money, ad nauseam. But revitalization shouldn't cost
> anything at all. If the language is important enough to save then
> people ought to be willing to put their own free time into keeping it
> alive, and not worrying about who's going to get the government
> cheese. It's not about how to look good, or to gain prestige or power
> or money. Revitalization is really about learning to speak the
> language because you care about it, because you love it and you love
> the people who speak it, and you want to keep that alive. There's no
> other reason necessary. Politics, identity, postcolonialism,
> education, government, autonomy, history, none of that other crap
> matters except for how to get around it so you can get on with keeping
> the language spoken.
> 
> Yéi áyá axh toowú.
> Jéiwsh
> 
> [1]: To be fair, here's my attempt: Axh xh'ús' yanéekw yáa yakyee. Ách
> áwé, tléil axh toowáa sigóo khukkhwak'eet'. Néilx' yéi xhat natee, TV
> kkhwalateen.
> 
> Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com
> <http://www.mapquest.com/?ncid=mpqmap00030000000004> : America's #1 Mapping
> Site. 
> 


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From hsouter at GMAIL.COM  Thu May  8 15:55:03 2008
From: hsouter at GMAIL.COM (Heather Souter)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 10:55:03 -0500
Subject: Learning to speak Tlingit
In-Reply-To: <C44874A5.4735%rzs@wildblue.net>
Message-ID: <THU.8.MAY.2008.105503.0500.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Taanshi,

Kihchi-maarsii pur kakiyaaw tii parol!  Surtu James, Rosalyn  pi
Richard marsii kit-itwaanaawaw.  I thank you all for your words,
especially James, Rosalyn and Richard.

Working with next to no support from our politicians/leaders (for many
of the same reasons cited already), I get really discouraged
sometimes.  (At the same time, thanks to some wonderful Elders and
dreams for the future, I keep on going :-))  However, when I think
honestly about our chances of succeeding in breathing new breath into
Michif at this point in time, I have to admit the odds are not good.
And, as time passes, the need for documentation is more and more
pressing....  As I work on linguistic analysis, lexicography and the
creation of teaching/learning materials, I see the need to record as
much as I can.  I just hope for more hearts, hands and heads soon as
time seems to be passing so very quickly....

Eekushi pitamaa.  That is all for now.
Heather

Tu li tañ, miishiwee itee piikishkweetak ta-lañg-iaan!
Let's speak our languages all the time, everywhere!


On 5/8/08, Richard Smith <rzs at wildblue.net> wrote:
>
> Rosalyn,
>  thanks for sharing this about dormancy
>  I find similar "lack" of deep interest here too among tribal members.
>  Keeping focus upon the future generations is sometimes the only thing
>  that keeps me wading through resources and trying to compile stems
>  and trying to get our linguists to atleast TALK with one another...
>  There is even a mindset among tribal authorities that the language
>  will NEVER come back as a spoken language...so there is no sense of
> urgency.
>  sometimes I feel like zeal for recovery is merely tolerated as fantasy.
>
>  I have so many "what's the use!" moments here.......
>  What is a hands-on artist craftsman like me doing anyway tangling with
>  insurmountable tasks of this work with words and computers?
>  Just reading your own words encourages me
>  I want to apologize if i ever sound like i'm hunting for blame targets
>   here on this forum. Warrior blood sometimes stirs in me, but
>  blame never builds anything...and is distracting from our goals.
>  I hope what might sound like blame, is only grief reacting
>  like stunned people coming out of their cellars after a tornado
>  trying to understand how we could have lost so much.
>
>  Hamendizhu' ayömatëdutöh tsatrihute
>  taskwanöht nöma këtatih hamëtayeh d'iyawishra'  de yarohniyeh
>  nesha d'iyawishra' d' aömetsayeh
>
>  Creator (All-Power) I ask of you - listen
>  give us all this day(count)  strength of the "heavens"
>  and also the strength of the earth
>
>  -Richard Zane Smith
>    Sohahiyoh
>  Wyandotte Oklahoma
>
>
>
>
>  On 5/7/08 8:14 AM, "rrlapier at AOL.COM" <rrlapier at AOL.COM> wrote:
>
>
> I am hoping that some languages are in a dormant phase.
>
>  I absolutely agree with the observations that you address in your
> commentary. For some, language has become ornamental, like heritage clothing
> or jewlery, you only hear it when the powwow princess introduces herself.
>
>  But I am hoping that for those of us working in the field, all five of us
> (ha ha), that we can leave behind some documentation (with our research) and
> a few second language speakers (through our school), that can serve as
> resources for the future generation that may become interested. Because,
> let's face it, most of the current generation are not interested. But again,
> I have hope for the future, that if we work to provide resources for them,
> they will not have to work as hard.
>
>  So, I agree to keep the language alive you need everyday speakers of the
> language. But to pass through the dormant phase we need documentation, very
> good documentation, for those who will come after us.
>
>  Rosalyn LaPier
>  Piegan Institute
>
>
>
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: James Crippen <jcrippen at GMAIL.COM>
>  To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
>  Sent: Tue, 6 May 2008 11:43 pm
>  Subject: Re: [ILAT] Learning to speak Tlingit
>
>
> 2008/5/5 Jordan Lachler <jordanlachler at gmail.com>:
>  > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1nPCGpQ86w
>
>  Goosú wé Lingít yóo xh'atángi, wéi video tóox'? Ch'u tleix' "Lingít"
>  xh'axhwa.axhch khu.aa. The video is a disappointment in the end
>  because other than using the word "Lingít" to index "Tlingitness",
>  there's no Tlingit language spoken. None at all. Not even "Yéi áyá haa
>  yóo xh'atángi" or something like it as an introduction.
>
>  The video does make a great point, however, one that bothers me a lot.
>  In my personal experience talking to the various people working in
>  Tlingit revitalization, there's lots of effort put into learning words
>  for *things*, but not learning how to actually express meaning. This
>  is partly because of the complexity of the language (it's really hard
>  to learn!), partly because its grammar is still not well described
>  (I'm working as hard as I can!), and partly because of the existing
>  focus on teaching words and phrases rather than communicative ability
>  (TPR is not the solution!).
>
>  But I fear that this issue will fly over the heads of the people who
>  it's for, in that they *won't* start to think about how they're
>  learning to talk. Instead, they'll see this video as reinforcing that
>  the words and set phrases they've learned is really a sign that
>  they're using the language.
>
>  "I can say the names of all the berries in Tlingit." "I can say 'we
>  are cutting fish' in Tlingit." But can you say "I don't want to go and
>  pick berries right now. Instead I want to stay home and watch TV
>  because my feet hurt" in Tlingit? [1] Why not? What matters more to
>  you?
>
>  People gain lots of pride and empowerment from learning a language,
>  but then go on to use it only as an occasional token of identity.
>  People speak the language, but they don't try to speak *in* the
>  language. They learn lots of words and phrases and such, but don't
>  ever learn how to even have a basic conversation about something as
>  dull as what they did last week. The language becomes a mere tool,
>  nothing any more ornamental than a button blanket. It doesn't get used
>  out in a boat to ward off the cold, it doesn't get used to pad a rock
>  for sitting on, it doesn't get used to wipe the steam off of a window.
>  Instead it only gets taken out for ceremonial occasions, treated
>  gently and with great respect. It only gets used to say "look here I'm
>  Tlingit" when the people with money and power are looking, and is
>  otherwise shoved back in a box for the next time someone needs to show
>  it off.
>
>  The language isn't just some dead at.óowu passed on from elders to be
>  cherished as a valuable artifact. It's the very life of being, it's
>  the xh'aséikw of the people. Who cares if it gets used for
>  introductions in a political speech? Who cares if it gets used at an
>  immersion camp that cost tens of thousands of dollars to arrange and
>  only brought twenty people? What really matters is if it gets used in
>  the kitchen while making dinner, or at the store while buying
>  potatoes, or in the car while driving to work. It needs to live, not
>  be some dusty old mask in a box that people only take out to prove
>  their lineage and status.
>
>  My point is that an endangered language like Tlingit isn't just a sign
>  to index political and social alignment, it's a living thing that
>  deserves to be used, deserves to have our breath pass through it. If
>  we're supposed to be revitalizing a language, that means really saying
>  things with it rather than saying things *about* it. And if people are
>  going to say things with it, then they need to really learn how to
>  speak and not just how to read phrases from a book.
>
>  I hear the same refrain over and over from people that revitalization
>  costs too much, that there's just not enough support for it, or that
>  it takes too much time to really learn to talk. Too often people focus
>  on how to get money for a project, where the money should come from,
>  who should control the money, who should control the people who
>  control the money, ad nauseam. But revitalization shouldn't cost
>  anything at all. If the language is important enough to save then
>  people ought to be willing to put their own free time into keeping it
>  alive, and not worrying about who's going to get the government
>  cheese. It's not about how to look good, or to gain prestige or power
>  or money. Revitalization is really about learning to speak the
>  language because you care about it, because you love it and you love
>  the people who speak it, and you want to keep that alive. There's no
>  other reason necessary. Politics, identity, postcolonialism,
>  education, government, autonomy, history, none of that other crap
>  matters except for how to get around it so you can get on with keeping
>  the language spoken.
>
>  Yéi áyá axh toowú.
>  Jéiwsh
>
>  [1]: To be fair, here's my attempt: Axh xh'ús' yanéekw yáa yakyee. Ách
>  áwé, tléil axh toowáa sigóo khukkhwak'eet'. Néilx' yéi xhat natee, TV
>  kkhwalateen.
>  ________________________________
> Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com
> <http://www.mapquest.com/?ncid=mpqmap00030000000004> :
> America's #1 Mapping Site.
>
>
>


From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Thu May  8 17:13:10 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 10:13:10 -0700
Subject: Glenroi is talking the Wiradjuri’s language (fwd link)
Message-ID: <THU.8.MAY.2008.101310.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Australia
Central Western Daily

Glenroi is talking the Wiradjuri’s language

BY TRACEY PRISK
7/05/2008 7:53:00 AM

In an effort to achieve better long-term outcomes for its students, Glenroi
Heights Public School, in partnership with the local Aboriginal community, is
offering its pupils a range of language and dance lessons aimed at giving them
a greater appreciation of the Aboriginal Wiradjuri language.

In a trial program which kicked off this year, children at the primary school,
of which 45 per cent are Aboriginal, are being offered three Wiradjuri lessons
over a three week period.

Access full article below:
http://orange.yourguide.com.au/news/local/news/general/glenroi-is-talking-the-wiradjuris-language/764804.aspx


From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Thu May  8 17:15:39 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 10:15:39 -0700
Subject: Indigenous peoples have crucial role in climate change debate –
 UN forum (fwd link)
Message-ID: <THU.8.MAY.2008.101539.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

UN News Centre

Indigenous peoples have crucial role in climate change debate – UN forum

5 May 2008 – Indigenous peoples have an important role to play in the global
response to climate change, given their knowledge and experience with impacts
of the phenomenon, and should be included in the international debate on the
issue, a United Nations gathering on indigenous affairs concluded.

Access full article below:
http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=26565&Cr=indigenous&Cr1=


From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Thu May  8 17:21:47 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 10:21:47 -0700
Subject: Government drops plans to open up uncontacted tribes’ reserves
 (fwd link)
Message-ID: <THU.8.MAY.2008.102147.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Survival International

Government drops plans to open up uncontacted tribes’ reserves
8 May 2008

Peru’s government has dropped plans to open up uncontacted Indians’ reserves to
oil exploration. The latest round of concessions, announced this week, do not
include any of the uncontacted Indians’ reserves.

The move appears to be in response to a storm of criticism from Survival and
Indian organisations in Peru. Survival had urged the Peruvian government not to
permit exploration in such areas because it could lead to the tribes’
extinction.

Access full article below:
http://www.survival-international.org/news/3292


From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Thu May  8 17:25:53 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 10:25:53 -0700
Subject: BSU professor to write first Ojibwe grammar book (fwd link)
Message-ID: <THU.8.MAY.2008.102553.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

BSU professor to write first Ojibwe grammar book
Associate professor of Ojibwe awarded a Guggenheim Foundation fellowship to
write book

May 7, 2008 - 9:18am — Journal Staff

Bemidji State University Associate Professor of Ojibwe Anton Treuer has been
awarded a fellowship from the Guggenheim Foundation to continue his work to
develop the first grammar manual of the Ojibwe language. Treuer is thought to
be the first BSU faculty member to receive a Guggenheim Fellowship in the
83-year history of the Fellowships.

“This is an exciting and important development,” Treuer said. “There are no
grammar books for the Ojibwe language. Early missionaries did some brief
sketches, 30 to 40 pages, but there are no pedagogical manuals for us to teach
from. This is something we must have if we’re going to develop things like
immersion programs to preserve and teach the language. All languages that are
alive have these things.”

Access full article below:
http://www.ifallsdailyjournal.com/news/education-news/bsu-professor-write-first-ojibwe-grammar-book-8772


From wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU  Sat May 10 00:48:53 2008
From: wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU (William J Poser)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 20:48:53 -0400
Subject: re SIL
In-Reply-To: <1129FD8A7A8E0D418E469D28C1700AFB4397ED@ad-ex-wvcmail.wvc.edu>
Message-ID: <FRI.9.MAY.2008.204853.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

>Love it!  I may have to use that quote.  Do you have the actual source?
>S/he deserves to be quoted.

Sorry, no, it is something I heard on TV some years ago. Unless
maybe I can track it down via google.

Bill


From wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU  Sat May 10 00:53:22 2008
From: wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU (William J Poser)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 20:53:22 -0400
Subject: re SIL
In-Reply-To: <26F524064A98A34B8984CE6537B0864C027A449D@RSHBGEXVS1.rosettastone.local>
Message-ID: <FRI.9.MAY.2008.205322.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Well, I didn't hear it myself but a friend reports having
had an argument with an orthodox Jewish woman about the use of Hebrew
as an every-day language (which some orthodox Jews oppose) in
which she said: "If Yiddish was good enough for Moses it should be
good enough for us." But that might be apocryphal too. On the other
hand, some stories that are so good that they almost have to be
apocryphal are true. For example, there is a story that some linguists
may know about Paul Kiparsky being stopped by a California State
Trooper which, like a number of Kiparsky stories, almost has to be
apocryphal. That particular one isn't: I was there.

Bill


From phonosemantics at EARTHLINK.NET  Sat May 10 09:26:50 2008
From: phonosemantics at EARTHLINK.NET (jess tauber)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 05:26:50 -0400
Subject: Mental sharpness and multilingualism?
Message-ID: <SAT.10.MAY.2008.052650.0400.PHONOSEMANTICS@EARTHLINK.NET>

See http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/05/080507152419.htm

Have we discussed this here as a good motivation to help people retain their endangered languages? Anyone know if the finding is real?

Jess Tauber
phonosemantics at earthlink.net


From hsouter at GMAIL.COM  Sat May 10 18:46:04 2008
From: hsouter at GMAIL.COM (Heather Souter)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 13:46:04 -0500
Subject: The Story Behind Each Word....
Message-ID: <SAT.10.MAY.2008.134604.0500.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Taanshi,

I have been thinking about the use/meaning of "word" and  ran across
this wonderful quote from Leslie Marmon Silko's work "Ceremony".  I
cannot match the eloquence of the writer, so I will add no commentary.
 (None is needed....)

"But you know, grandson, this world is fragile."
The word he choose to express fragile was filled with the intricacies
of a continuing process, and with a strength inherent in spider webs
woven across paths through sand hills where early in the morning the
sun becomes entangled in each filament of web.  It took a long time to
explain the fragility and intricacy because no word exists alone, and
the reason for choosing each word had to be explained with a story
about why it must be said this certain way.  That was the
responsibility that went with being human...,the story behind each
word must be told so that there could be no mistake in the meaning of
what had been said; and this demanded great patience and love.
Ceremony, pp.35-36, Leslie Marmon Silko, 1977

Eekoshi pitamaa.
Heather


From rtroike at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Sat May 10 23:54:29 2008
From: rtroike at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (Rudy Troike)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 16:54:29 -0700
Subject: If English was good enough for Jesus...
In-Reply-To: <ILAT%200805100043466065.03CF@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Message-ID: <SAT.10.MAY.2008.165429.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

I doubt whether anyone would be able to track that down, unless there is
an archive of transcripts of sermons by evangelical preachers on border
Mexican radio stations. I heard the attribution to one of them back in
the 1950s before TV was around. It's probably been in the pipeline for
a long time.

    Rudy


From bulbulthegreat at GMAIL.COM  Sun May 11 00:05:52 2008
From: bulbulthegreat at GMAIL.COM (=?UTF-8?Q?Slavom=C3=ADr_=C4=8C=C3=A9pl=C3=B6?=)
Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 02:05:52 +0200
Subject: If English was good enough for Jesus...
In-Reply-To: <20080510165429.w75wkk8oc08co8kg@www.email.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <SUN.11.MAY.2008.020552.0200.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Rudy,

it seems this is a old urban myth and the quote usually attributed to
Texas governor Ma Ferguson. It was discussed a number of times on
Language Log, e.g.
http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/003084.html

bulbul


On Sun, May 11, 2008 at 1:54 AM, Rudy Troike <rtroike at email.arizona.edu> wrote:
> I doubt whether anyone would be able to track that down, unless there is
> an archive of transcripts of sermons by evangelical preachers on border
> Mexican radio stations. I heard the attribution to one of them back in
> the 1950s before TV was around. It's probably been in the pipeline for
> a long time.
>
>   Rudy
>


From wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU  Sun May 11 00:35:14 2008
From: wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU (William J Poser)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 20:35:14 -0400
Subject: If English was good enough for Jesus...
In-Reply-To: <5ba2490d0805101705r19559c58hc235d0d78a57abd4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SAT.10.MAY.2008.203514.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

The thing about slogans like this is that, just as they may be
spread by people making fun of them, they may also be picked
up by people who like them and re-used.

Bill


From wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU  Sun May 11 03:46:34 2008
From: wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU (William J Poser)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 23:46:34 -0400
Subject: Mental sharpness and bilingualism
Message-ID: <SAT.10.MAY.2008.234634.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

The finding reported in the article that Jess cites that
childhood bi- and multi-lingualism is associated with better
cognition among elders parallels previous findings of similar
advantages among younger adults. I suspect that there is some
cognitive advantage to multilingualism, but it is difficult to
be really sure because it is virtually impossible to control
for all of the relevant variables in such studies. The only
way to do a perfect experiment would be to randomly select
the children to be raised monolingual and the children to be
raised multilingual prior to birth from a population in which
they could be expected to be brought up in similar ways.
Unfortunately (from a strictly scientific point of view),
this is not possible. Such studies are therefore always of
populations where one can never be 100% certain that some other
relevant factor does not differentiate the monolingual and
multilingual subjects.

So, yes, I think that one can use such studies as support for
the virtue of speaking more than one language, but I wouldn't
want to push it too hard because of the methodological problem.
Note also that there is an earlier literature that claims the
opposite, that is, that bilingualism is damaging. Those studies
are subject to the same methodological limitation (as well as
others - most of them are really bad) so if nothing else the
more recent positive studies can be taken as refuting the
earlier negative ones.

Bill
 


From wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU  Sun May 11 04:06:31 2008
From: wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU (William J Poser)
Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 00:06:31 -0400
Subject: Multilingualism....
Message-ID: <SUN.11.MAY.2008.000631.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Here are the reference to the paper referred to in the Science Daily
article and the abstract:

Kave, Gitit, Eyal, Nitza, Shorek, Aviva, and Jiska Cohen-Mansfield (2008)
``Multilingualism and Cognitive State in the Oldest Old,''
Psychology and Aging 23.1.70-78.

In this study, the authors examined whether the number of languages a
person speaks predicts performance on 2 cognitive-screening
tests. Data were drawn from a representative sample of the oldest
Israeli Jewish population (N = 814, M age = 83.0 years; SD = 5.4) that
was interviewed first in 1989 and then twice more within the following
12 years. Cognitive state differed significantly among groups of
self-reported bilingual, trilingual, and multilingual individuals at
each of the 3 interview waves. Regression analyses showed that the
number of languages spoken contributed to the prediction of cognitive
test scores beyond the effect of other demographic variables, such as
age, gender, place of birth, age at immigration, or
education. Multilingualism was also found to be a significant
predictor of cognitive state in a group of individuals who acquired no
formal education at all. Those who reported being most fluent in a
language other than their mother tongue scored higher on average than
did those whose mother tongue was their best language, but the effect
of number of languages on cognitive state was significant in both
groups, with no significant interaction. Results are discussed in the
context of theories of cognitive reserve.


From anguksuar at YAHOO.COM  Sun May 11 14:00:32 2008
From: anguksuar at YAHOO.COM (Anguksuar)
Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 09:00:32 -0500
Subject: Anguksuar sent you an Article from startribune.com
Message-ID: <SUN.11.MAY.2008.090032.0500.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

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From linguist4 at KATHLANGCENTRE.ORG.AU  Mon May 12 00:17:38 2008
From: linguist4 at KATHLANGCENTRE.ORG.AU (Eugenie Collyer)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 09:47:38 +0930
Subject: re SIL
In-Reply-To: <1129FD8A7A8E0D418E469D28C1700AFB4397ED@ad-ex-wvcmail.wvc.edu>
Message-ID: <MON.12.MAY.2008.094738.0930.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

I  remember reading about that quote in Bill Bryson's 'Mother  
Tongue', I think it was a US senator...?


On 08/05/2008, at 4:40 AM, McMillan, Carol wrote:

> :-)
>
> Love it!  I may have to use that quote.  Do you have the actual  
> source?
> S/he deserves to be quoted.
>
> Carol
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Indigenous Languages and Technology
> [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of William J Poser
> Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 8:06 AM
> To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [ILAT] re SIL
>
>> To see a smiling portrait of blue-eyed blonde Jesus (the rabbi  
>> Yeshua)
>> surrounded by the earths laughing children of every ethnicity is
>> ...amazing
>
> I've always liked the statement by a particularly ignorant English- 
> only
> advocate that "If English was good enough for Jesus it should be good
> enough for us."
>
> Bill

Eugenie Collyer
Town Linguist
Diwurruwurru-Jaru Aboriginal Corporation
(Katherine Regional Aboriginal Language Centre)
PO Box 871, Katherine 0851
Ph: (08) 89711233
Fax: (08) 8971 0561



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From fmarmole at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Mon May 12 05:01:51 2008
From: fmarmole at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (Francisco Marmolejo)
Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 22:01:51 -0700
Subject: Five "new" indigenous languages in Mexico
Message-ID: <SUN.11.MAY.2008.220151.0700.>

Dear colleagues:

Enclosed please find a news item published today in Mexico's newspapers
about the "discovery" of five indigenous languages in Mexico.

Those Languages are: q'eqchí, ki'che, cakchiquel, ixil and  mochós.
As explained by Carlos Zolla-Luque, coordinator of the project entitled
"Programa Universitario México Nación Multicultural" at the National
Autonomous University of Mexico (UNAM), this increase in the number of
languages in Mexico is mostly due to immigrants from Guatemala who have
moved to the Southern Mexican border.

Regards,
Francisco
  

Francisco Marmolejo
Executive Director
Consortium for North American Higher Education Collaboration
CONAHEC - University of Arizona
PO Box 210300
220 W. Sixth Street
Tucson, AZ 85721-0300 USA
Tel. (520) 621-9080 / 621-7761
Fax (520) 626-2675
Email: fmarmole at email.arizona.edu
http://conahec.org



Francisco Marmolejo
Assistant Vice President for Western Hemispheric Programs
University of Arizona
PO Box 210158
888 N. Euclid Ave. / University Services Bldg.
Tucson, AZ 85721 USA
Tel. (520) 626-4258
Fax (520) 621-6011
Email: fmarmole at email.arizona.edu
http://www.whp.arizona.edu

+++++++++++++

http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/notas/505982.html


Descubren en México cinco nuevas lenguas indígenas  
Notimex 
El Universal 
Ciudad de México 
Domingo 11 de mayo de 2008 

 
Mientras en el país se ha incrementado el número de lenguas indígenas, en el
mundo se registra la constante pérdida de uno o varios idiomas 

 
Los censos de población han descubierto en México cinco nuevas lenguas:
q'eqchí, ki'che, cakchiquel, ixil y mochós, explicó Carlos Zolla Luque,
coordinador del Programa Universitario México Nación Multicultural (PUMC) de
la UNAM. 
El investigador de la Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México (UNAM) aseguró
que en México se ha incrementado el número de lenguas indígenas, mientras
que en el mundo se registra la constante pérdida de uno o varios idiomas. 

Explicó que el aumento de lenguas en el país se debe a los emigrantes
guatemaltecos que se establecen en las fronteras, quienes aparecen en
registros del Instituto Nacional de Estadística, Geografía e Informática
(INEGI) y que a veces superan a los hablantes de otras zonas. 

De acuerdo con Luz María Valdés González, integrante del Instituto de
Investigaciones Jurídicas (IIJ) la población indígena se un segmento que
demográficamente avanza dos veces más que el resto de la población. 

Según el Consejo Nacional de Población (Conapo) , la tasa de crecimiento
demográfico es de entre 1.2 y 1.3 por ciento anual, pero las comunidades
autóctonas crecen a razón de 3.8 por ciento al año, por lo que su población
se duplicará en dos décadas, mientras que el resto de los mexicanos lo hará
en cuatro o cinco décadas. 

Datos del Censo de Población y Vivienda de 2000 revelaron que en 1970 había
31 lenguas indígenas, en 1980, aumentaron a 40, en 1990 llegaron a 92, en
1995 disminuyeron a 81 y en 2000 volvieron a aumentar a 85 lenguas
autóctonas. 

Zolla Luque dijo que según censos del INEGI, 81 por ciento de los indígenas
son bilingües, dominan su lengua y el español; el resto son monolingües y
viven en poblaciones muy aisladas y pobres, donde las mujeres son
transmisoras y conservadoras del idioma, pese a ser muy marginadas. 

La dinámica demográfica y el fenómeno migratorio han generado situaciones de
trilingüismo en el que, aunado a la lengua indígena y el español aparece el
inglés, destacó el académico. 

Explicó que las lenguas están amenazadas cuando su uso pierde funcionalidad,
si no se concreta en la vida cotidiana o en el intercambio de mensajes. 

"No es casual el interés de los indígenas por las tecnologías de la
información y la comunicación, sobre todo entre los jóvenes, pues si logran
colocar a sus lenguas en la radio, la televisión o Internet contribuirán a
su preservación y desarrollo", expuso. 
Sin embargo, de acuerdo con el antropólogo Leonardo Manrique, en México hay
21 lenguas amenazadas debido a factores como número de hablantes, dificultad
de mecanismos para su preservación y la migración. 

Por su parte Soren Wchmann, de la Leiden University & Max Planck Institute
for Evolutionary Antrhopology, reveló que la situación de las lenguas
indígenas en México es mejor que en otras partes de América, en donde muchas
de ellas desaparecerán en pocas décadas. 

Para Zolla el hecho de conservar una lengua significa preservar, no sólo una
herramienta de comunicación, sino un patrimonio cultural y como depósito de
información, puso como ejemplo un vocablo náhuatl. 

"Cochitzápotl no sólo significa zapote blanco, como se le conoce en español,
sino que en la lengua original quiere decir, zapote fruto dulce del sueño, o
que induce al sueño", explicó. 

   


From rzs at WILDBLUE.NET  Mon May 12 14:59:40 2008
From: rzs at WILDBLUE.NET (Richard Smith)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 07:59:40 -0700
Subject: The Story Behind Each Word....
In-Reply-To: <6d8c8c410805101146w7b91de6ct4f83e22eeabb74c8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <MON.12.MAY.2008.075940.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Heather,thanks for sharing Silko
I've been thinking alot about this too,
unscientifically of course!

words
thought, spoken, written, even silent
it seems we're shaped by words.
a simple breath of human exhaust
and we're comforted or infuriated

a particular throat vibration
and we're encouraged or undone.
symbols arrive from keyboard or pen
we transliterate them into words

emotion rise inside like steam
twisting themselves into thought.
we can sound them selectively
or we can blurt them carelessly

stories for each word
words for each story.
united by our stories
our people will thrive


Richard Zane Smith
Wyandotte, Oklahoma


On 5/10/08 11:46 AM, "Heather Souter" <hsouter at GMAIL.COM> wrote:

> Taanshi,
> 
> I have been thinking about the use/meaning of "word" and  ran across
> this wonderful quote from Leslie Marmon Silko's work "Ceremony".  I
> cannot match the eloquence of the writer, so I will add no commentary.
>  (None is needed....)
> 
> "But you know, grandson, this world is fragile."
> The word he choose to express fragile was filled with the intricacies
> of a continuing process, and with a strength inherent in spider webs
> woven across paths through sand hills where early in the morning the
> sun becomes entangled in each filament of web.  It took a long time to
> explain the fragility and intricacy because no word exists alone, and
> the reason for choosing each word had to be explained with a story
> about why it must be said this certain way.  That was the
> responsibility that went with being human...,the story behind each
> word must be told so that there could be no mistake in the meaning of
> what had been said; and this demanded great patience and love.
> Ceremony, pp.35-36, Leslie Marmon Silko, 1977
> 
> Eekoshi pitamaa.
> Heather


From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Mon May 12 15:59:14 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 08:59:14 -0700
Subject: Amazon peoples remain unreached (fwd link)
Message-ID: <MON.12.MAY.2008.085914.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Amazon peoples remain unreached

Posted on May 9, 2008 | by Shawn Hendricks
The Baptist Press

RICHMOND, Va. (BP)--Weary travelers stand alongside a river somewhere in South
America's Amazon Basin.

After three hours of trying to maneuver upstream by motorboat to a remote
village, a group of International Mission Board missionaries grudgingly accepts
the realization that the day's journey has ended. Shallow waters, exposed rocks,
tree limbs and a rough current that nearly capsized the boat won't allow the
group to go any farther.

Score a victory for the Amazon.

Thousands of miles of dense jungle create a daunting "wall" for those wanting to
take the Gospel to this area. For some of the people groups in remote areas,
their only hope to hear about Jesus is through faithful Christians praying that
the Gospel message will reach them.

Access full article below:
http://www.bpnews.net/BPnews.asp?ID=28027


From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Mon May 12 16:03:03 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 09:03:03 -0700
Subject: Audio Bible Ministry Reaches Amazon Tribes (fwd link)
Message-ID: <MON.12.MAY.2008.090303.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Audio Bible Ministry Reaches Amazon Tribes

Audio Bibles are reaching the farthest corners of the earth.

Albuquerque, NM (PRWEB) May 12, 2008 -- Audio Bibles are reaching the farthest
corners of the earth.

In the Brazilian rain forest, the small village of Makita sits along the muddy
banks of an Amazon River tributary. When the conditions are ideal, the trip
takes two days by boat.

Jeff Scott, an American church leader, and his short-term mission team arrive at
Makita and are welcomed by the villagers and swarms of mosquitoes and flies.

Scott and his team notice a small church building that was built by a previous
mission team. Inside, bats rest overhead and tarantulas patrol dark corners. In
this village and the thousands like it, which dot the Amazon's riverbanks,
people live with limited access to clean water, the outside world and the Word
of God.

In fact, Brazil has 258 tribes, and almost as many different languages - 235.
More than 90 of these tribes are cut off from the outside world, living deep in
the rain forest and firmly protected by the Brazilian government. Out of these
258 tribes, only 20 have strong, indigenous church leadership.

Access full article below:
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2008/5/prweb932384.htm


From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Mon May 12 16:05:31 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 09:05:31 -0700
Subject: Reaching the people (fwd link)
Message-ID: <MON.12.MAY.2008.090531.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Reaching the people

Indian Country Today
Posted: May 12, 2008
by: Lisa Garrigues / Today correspondent
Mayan TV broadcasts in Guatemala

HOUSTON - The time was right. On April 23, a television station that once was
the voice of the Guatemalan military dictatorship that had massacred thousands
of Mayans showed the glyph of the day from the millennial Mayan calendar and
announced itself as ''TV Maya: Guatemala's multi-cultural station.''

The indigenous people of Guatemala finally had their own television station.

''This is a dream that indigenous people have had for many years: to have a
means of communication,'' Mayan Nobel Peace Prize winner Rigoberta Menchu told
Agence France-Presse at the official inauguration of the station, which was
also attended by Guatemalan President Alvaro Colom and other dignitaries.

The station, funded by the Guatemalan Academy of Mayan Languages (ALMG),
broadcasts for 30 minutes, three times a day, showing programs that teach Mayan
culture, worldview and language. Its programs are broadcast in indigenous
languages with Spanish subtitles.

Access full article below:
http://www.indiancountry.com/content.cfm?id=1096417261


From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Mon May 12 16:07:29 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 09:07:29 -0700
Subject: UMD to host Minnesota Indigenous Language Symposium IV (fwd link)
Message-ID: <MON.12.MAY.2008.090729.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

UMD to host Minnesota Indigenous Language Symposium IV

Pine Journal
Published Friday, May 09, 2008

he University of Minnesota Duluth (UMD) Eni-gikendaasoyang/Center for Indigenous
Knowledge and Language Revitalization will host the Minnesota Indigenous
Language Symposium IV on May 12 and 13 at the Holiday Inn Hotel in downtown
Duluth.

The two-day event will feature presentations and discussions on technology
advances in language revitalization, best practices in language immersion, and
policy and advocacy work. World-leading language revitalization professionals
from Hawaii and New Zealand will make major presentations.

Access full article below:
http://www.cloquetmn.com/articles/index.cfm?id=13453&section=News


From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Mon May 12 16:14:24 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 09:14:24 -0700
Subject: Last Speaker Of Tribal Language Teaches Others (fwd link)
Message-ID: <MON.12.MAY.2008.091424.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Last Speaker Of Tribal Language Teaches Others

Kern River Valley Tubatulabal Tribesman Helps Create Dictionary

POSTED: 10:02 am PDT May 9, 2008
UPDATED: 12:09 pm PDT May 9, 2008

KERN RIVER VALLEY, Calif. -- The last known speaker of a North American tribal
language is now helping others learn the language.

Hundreds of years ago in Kern County, before one word of English or Spanish was
ever uttered, people communicated in Native American dialects.

Though most Native American languages have disappeared, there is still hope for
one local language with a man who is its last speaker.

Pakaanil, the native language of the Tubatulabal tribes of the Kern River
Valley, is a language that has been spoken for hundreds, possibly thousands of
years in Kern County.

What makes this language so unique is the man who is speaking these words. Jim
Andreas, 77, is the last known native speaker of Pakaanil.

Access full article below:
http://www.turnto23.com/news/16214187/detail.html


From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Tue May 13 16:20:37 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 09:20:37 -0700
Subject: 'Dreamtime' over in Aboriginal studies (fwd link)
Message-ID: <TUE.13.MAY.2008.092037.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

'Dreamtime' over in Aboriginal studies

Justine Ferrari and Lauren Wilson | May 12, 2008

DREAMTIME is no longer an acceptable term to describe the collection of
Aboriginal creation stories, and should be referred to as The Dreaming or The
Dreamings.

And the structure of traditional Aboriginal society should not be described as
primitive - but as complex and diverse, and the term "native" should be
replaced by "indigenous groups" or "language groups".

Advice for teaching indigenous students, which has been prepared by the West
Australian and South Australian education departments, contains lists of
appropriate words to describe Aboriginal people and culture.

The West Australian document, part of its Aboriginal Perspectives Across the
Curriculum project, contains the headings "less appropriate terminology" and
"more appropriate terminology", and sets out unsuitable words and their
substitutes.

Access full article below:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23682161-2702,00.html


From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Tue May 13 17:30:34 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 10:30:34 -0700
Subject: build a font for your endangered language...
Message-ID: <TUE.13.MAY.2008.103034.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

fyi,

For the font deprived and character challenged, take a look at this.  fontstruct
is a free online Flash-based  (non-kerning and non-bézier-ing) tool that makes
it fairly easy to create a TrueType font from scratch.

fontstruct
http://fontstruct.fontshop.com/


From candaceg at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Tue May 13 19:04:35 2008
From: candaceg at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (Candace K. Galla)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 12:04:35 -0700
Subject: American Indian Language Development Institute 2008
In-Reply-To: <9a6736790801181159n7fe18178m8dfcfc7d44ccda82@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.13.MAY.2008.120435.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

**
 Announcing the 29th Annual American Indian Language Development Institute

June 4 - July 2, 2008
University of Arizona

*Creating Spaces for Indigenous Languages in Everyday Life*
**


The University of Arizona and Department of Language, Reading & Culture
invite you to the 29th American Indian Language Development Institute
(AILDI). AILDI 2008 will have a special focus on Native teachers in the
classroom and language. Special topics will include NCLB & Native students,
language immersion methods in the classroom, Native children's literature &
writing and schooling in Native American communities. Our theme, *Creating
Spaces for Indigenous Languages in Everyday Life *reflects this emphasis and
will be highlighted with guest speakers, presentations, activities,
projects, and fieldtrips.






AILDI provides a unique educational experience for teachers of Native
children. The AILDI format offers Native and non-Native teachers the
opportunity to become researchers, practitioners, bilingual/bicultural
curriculum specialists, and especially effective language teachers. The
common concern of language loss, revitalization and maintenance brings
educators, parents, tribal leaders and community members to this university
setting to study methods for teaching Native languages and cultures and to
develop materials.







AILDI offers six graduate credits or undergraduate credit hours during four
weeks of intensive study. Courses can be applied toward regular degree
programs and teacher endorsements.
       Please visit our website at http://www.u.arizona.edu/~aildi for more
information.

Best,
Candace K. Galla
Ph.D Student, LRC
Graduate Assistant
American Indian Language Development Institute
Department of Language, Reading & Culture
College of Education, Room 517
P.O. Box 210069
Tucson, AZ 85721-0069
(520) 621-1068, Fax (520)621-8174
www.u.arizona.edu/~aildi
candaceg at email.arizona.edu
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From wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU  Tue May 13 22:15:32 2008
From: wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU (William J Poser)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 18:15:32 -0400
Subject: build a font for your endangered language...
In-Reply-To: <20080513103034.gj3r3qcokcoso800@www.email.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <TUE.13.MAY.2008.181532.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Another useful tool, albeit one that requires installation and is
a little harder to use than fontstruct, is FontForge:
http://fontforge.sourceforge.net/
which allows you to create fonts, convert them from one type to another,
change the encoding, and edit them in a variety of ways. It is also
possible to use it to take glyphs from different fonts and combine them
into a single font.

Bill


From aidan at USYD.EDU.AU  Tue May 13 23:07:14 2008
From: aidan at USYD.EDU.AU (Aidan Wilson)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 09:07:14 +1000
Subject: build a font for your endangered language...
In-Reply-To: <20080513221532.9DCCAB24F6@lorax.ldc.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.14.MAY.2008.090714.1000.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Hmm, I just tried to download fontforge via the linux repositories, and 
it appears that it comes by default with Ubuntu 8.04. Excellent.

-Aidan

On 14/05/08 08:15, William J Poser said:
> Another useful tool, albeit one that requires installation and is
> a little harder to use than fontstruct, is FontForge:
> http://fontforge.sourceforge.net/
> which allows you to create fonts, convert them from one type to another,
> change the encoding, and edit them in a variety of ways. It is also
> possible to use it to take glyphs from different fonts and combine them
> into a single font.
>
> Bill
>   


From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Wed May 14 16:39:19 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 09:39:19 -0700
Subject: Thornton Media in Banning hopes to keep Native American languages
 alive (fwd link)
Message-ID: <WED.14.MAY.2008.093919.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Thornton Media in Banning hopes to keep Native American languages alive

10:00 PM PDT on Tuesday, May 13, 2008
By SHARILYN BANKOLE
Special to The Press-Enterprise

What's new: Thornton Media in Banning has developed a video game featuring
Native American languages.

What it does: Thornton creates unique tools aimed at preserving, teaching and
translating dying Native American languages. The company's products are
manufactured using the latest technological advances in linguistic electronics,
said company spokeswoman and business partner Kara Thornton. The work is a
passion she shares with her husband, company founder Don Thornton, whose mother
is Cherokee.

Access full article below:
http://www.pe.com/localnews/inland/stories/PE_News_Local_B_b2scrapbook14.3e24432.html


From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Wed May 14 16:46:50 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 09:46:50 -0700
Subject: Research and teaching of Indigenous language and culture leads to
 prestigious $300,000 fellowship for CDU academic (fwd link)
Message-ID: <WED.14.MAY.2008.094650.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Research and teaching of Indigenous language and culture leads to prestigious
$300,000 fellowship for CDU academic

Australia
Charles Darwin University
14 May 2008

Charles Darwin University’s Associate Professor Michael Christie has been
awarded the 2008 prestigious Senior Australian Teaching and Learning
Fellowship, valued at $300,000, to continue his work integrating Aboriginal
culture and practices into tertiary teaching.

The aim of the Fellowship Scheme, awarded by the Australian Learning and
Teaching Council – formerly the Carrick Institute – is to advance learning and
teaching in higher education by supporting leading educators to undertake
strategic, high-profile fellowship activities in areas that support the
continued development of learning and teaching in Australian higher education.

The program planned by Dr Christie, entitled “Increasing the participation of
Indigenous knowledge holders in tertiary teaching through the use of emerging
digital technologies”, is designed to further the collaboration between Yolngu
educators and consultants in East Arnhem Land, the School of Australian
Indigenous Knowledge Systems, the School of Education, and the School of
Creative Arts and Humanities.

Access full article below:
http://www.cdu.edu.au/newsroom/story.php?nID=2672


From langendt at U.ARIZONA.EDU  Thu May 15 01:02:28 2008
From: langendt at U.ARIZONA.EDU (Terry Langendoen)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 18:02:28 -0700
Subject: FW: FEL Awards 2008
Message-ID: <WED.14.MAY.2008.180228.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Forwarded message from Nick Ostler, Foundation for Endangered
Languages
________________________________

From: Nicholas Ostler [mailto:nicholas.ostler at googlemail.com]
Sent: Wed 5/14/2008 5:15 PM
To: nostler at chibcha.demon.co.uk
Subject: FEL Awards 2008

I am glad to announce to members the results of this year's grant
awards by the Foundation for Endangered Languages. They are as
follows, each with the applicant's description of the intended
work which we shall be supporting:

John Hobson, University of Sydney, re Banjalang (Northern Rivers
district, NSW, Australia)

US$1450.

1. To conduct an Australian demonstration trial of the
Master-Apprentice method in the revitalisation of an endangered
language that will inform the development of policy and practice
at state and national levels.

2. To provide qualified and experienced indigenous language
teachers with an opportunity to acquire sufficient fluency in
their ancestral language to permit them to transmit it to
students in contemporary classroom settings.

3. To evidence to Banjalang communities that adult
intergenerational transmission of their language is possible.

4. To produce and disseminate recordings of Banjalang dialogue.

5. To stimulate the increased use of spoken Banjalang in a broad
range of contexts.

6. To foster awareness of Banjalang and the need and potential
for its revitalisation.


Chun Huang, University of Florida, re Siraya (Taiwan)

US$1000.

1. Finalization of a modern Siraya dictionary and its publication
in 2008.

2. Preparation of Siraya-learning materials for Siraya Language &
Culture Summer Camp, 2008.


Javier Ruedas, University of New Orleans, re Marubo (upper Curuçá
River, Amazonas state, Brazil)

US$1000.

a.  Record, transcribe, and translate saiti, a form of sung myth,
known fully by very few elderly Marubo, and store these along
with extensive metadata in linked computer files

b.  Digitize recordings and transcriptions that have already been
made by the speech community

c.  Help generate contexts for systematic, interpersonal,
intergenerational transmission of specialized language registers

d.  Produce CDs and other digital media for use by the speech
community and by NGOs working in indigenous education among the
Marubo

e.  Produce educational materials based on transcribed and
translated texts


Molly Babel, Mono Lake Northern Paiute (Bridgeport, California,
USA)

US$550.

1. Produce written text collection of traditional narratives with
Northern Paiute and English text and accompanying audio CD

2. Produce follow along children's book with Northern Paiute and
English text and accompanying audio CD


April Counceller, Alutiiq or Sugpiaq/Pacific Eskimo (Kodiak
Island, AK, USA)

US$1000.

1. To advance knowledge of the Alutiiq language among rural
Alutiiq Elementary students and other learners

2. To document environmental language information with fluent
Elders

3 To develop resources for language learning accessible to
educators, cultural organizations and language learners


The Foundation is conscious that there were many other deserving
cases, but sadly US$5,000 was all we had to give away this year.

--
Nicholas Ostler
Chairman, Foundation for Endangered Languages
Registered Charity: England & Wales 1070616
172 Bailbrook Lane, Bath BA1 7AA, England
Phone: +44 (0)1225-852865 Mobile: (0)7720-889319
www.ogmios.org <http://www.ogmios.org/>
nostler at chibcha.demon.co.uk


From rzs at WILDBLUE.NET  Thu May 15 18:08:24 2008
From: rzs at WILDBLUE.NET (Richard Smith)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 11:08:24 -0700
Subject: Amazon peoples remain unreached (fwd link)
In-Reply-To: <20080512085914.w4dlsgoo84w8sgs4@www.email.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <THU.15.MAY.2008.110824.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

sorry i can't help but respond
"unreached?" 
   amazing 
a Creator who can design bees and ants to communicate truth
even incredible complicated messages
somehow can't "reach" human beings without missionaries

Richard Zane Smith
Wyandotte Oklahoma

On 5/12/08 8:59 AM, "phil cash cash" <cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU> wrote:

> Amazon peoples remain unreached
> 
> Posted on May 9, 2008 | by Shawn Hendricks
> The Baptist Press
> 
> RICHMOND, Va. (BP)--Weary travelers stand alongside a river somewhere in South
> America's Amazon Basin.
> 
> After three hours of trying to maneuver upstream by motorboat to a remote
> village, a group of International Mission Board missionaries grudgingly
> accepts
> the realization that the day's journey has ended. Shallow waters, exposed
> rocks,
> tree limbs and a rough current that nearly capsized the boat won't allow the
> group to go any farther.
> 
> Score a victory for the Amazon.
> 
> Thousands of miles of dense jungle create a daunting "wall" for those wanting
> to
> take the Gospel to this area. For some of the people groups in remote areas,
> their only hope to hear about Jesus is through faithful Christians praying
> that
> the Gospel message will reach them.
> 
> Access full article below:
> http://www.bpnews.net/BPnews.asp?ID=28027


From hsouter at GMAIL.COM  Thu May 15 16:48:44 2008
From: hsouter at GMAIL.COM (Heather Souter)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 11:48:44 -0500
Subject: Amazon peoples remain unreached (fwd link)
In-Reply-To: <C451CA28.47EF%rzs@wildblue.net>
Message-ID: <THU.15.MAY.2008.114844.0500.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Taanshi,

I am with you, Richard!

Just some more musings....

Unreached (and untouched) by missionaries....  Considering the damage
undone to many indigenous peoples in the name of "God"....  Perhaps
the power of the "WORD of God" might be better used working for
protection of these peoples' traditional territories!  That would be a
much more constructive to act out the "Gospel".  These missionaries
sound like a bunch religious "Indiana Jones" types!  I guess when you
are in the business of saving souls, respect can be thrown out the
window!  (Interestingly enough, I think the stories of Jesus
interaction with others are always seem to be respectful in
nature....)

Eekoshi pitamaa.
Heather

On 5/15/08, Richard Smith <rzs at wildblue.net> wrote:
> sorry i can't help but respond
>  "unreached?"
>    amazing
>  a Creator who can design bees and ants to communicate truth
>  even incredible complicated messages
>  somehow can't "reach" human beings without missionaries
>
>  Richard Zane Smith
>  Wyandotte Oklahoma
>
>
>  On 5/12/08 8:59 AM, "phil cash cash" <cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU> wrote:
>
>  > Amazon peoples remain unreached
>  >
>  > Posted on May 9, 2008 | by Shawn Hendricks
>  > The Baptist Press
>  >
>  > RICHMOND, Va. (BP)--Weary travelers stand alongside a river somewhere in South
>  > America's Amazon Basin.
>  >
>  > After three hours of trying to maneuver upstream by motorboat to a remote
>  > village, a group of International Mission Board missionaries grudgingly
>  > accepts
>  > the realization that the day's journey has ended. Shallow waters, exposed
>  > rocks,
>  > tree limbs and a rough current that nearly capsized the boat won't allow the
>  > group to go any farther.
>  >
>  > Score a victory for the Amazon.
>  >
>  > Thousands of miles of dense jungle create a daunting "wall" for those wanting
>  > to
>  > take the Gospel to this area. For some of the people groups in remote areas,
>  > their only hope to hear about Jesus is through faithful Christians praying
>  > that
>  > the Gospel message will reach them.
>  >
>  > Access full article below:
>  > http://www.bpnews.net/BPnews.asp?ID=28027
>


From Rrlapier at AOL.COM  Thu May 15 22:28:20 2008
From: Rrlapier at AOL.COM (Rrlapier at AOL.COM)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 18:28:20 EDT
Subject: JOBS: Chickasaw Cultural Center
Message-ID: <THU.15.MAY.2008.182820.EDT.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>



 
  
____________________________________
 From: acobb at unm.edu
Reply-to: aio_ambassadors at yahoogroups.com
To:  aio_ambassadors at yahoogroups.com
Sent: 5/15/2008 4:06:10 P.M. Mountain  Daylight Time
Subj: [aio_ambassadors] Chickasaw Cultural Center



 
 
Hey out there, Ambassadors,

HELP!

I've moved back home and  work for my tribe now--I'm 
overseeing our division of history and culture,  which 
includes the Chickasaw Cultural Center Complex (currently 
under  construction)under  construction)<WBR>. It
cultural center in the  nation when it is completed and 
includes an exhibit center, IMAX theater  and cafe, 
amphitheater, traditional village, library/research 
center,  and administration/center,  and administration/
we will begin a  performing arts center. The campus sits 
on 109 acres in Sulphur, Oklahoma  next to a national park. 
It's scheduled to open about a year from now. It  is 
really going to be something special.

Here's where you guys come  in: I have jobs coming out my 
ears and, I'm looking for Native  museum/tourism people to 
come on board. These are GREAT jobs--they  include:

Directors of Museum Education and Business  Operations
Visitor Services Managers
Outreach and Education  Staff
Multimedia/Tech/Multimedia/Te
Conservators and  Registrars
Curators and Exhibit Designers
Archivists
Marketing  Staff

Anybody interested? Short term or long term--we need more  
people to really open this in the right way. Steve and I 
have been  back in Oklahoma for a year and a half now, and 
we have to say . . . .  Oklahoma is easy living and the 
Chickasaw Nation is an excellent place to  work. If you 
know of anyone who might be interested, please give them  
my email addresses: _acobb at unm.edu_ (mailto:acobb at unm.edu)  and 
_amanda.cobb at amanda.cobama_ (mailto:amanda.cobb at chickasaw.net) .

Sister  Susan, are you out there? What's your phone 
number?!

Love to  all,
Amanda
Class of 98


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-/J=1210889144064993/A=4990214/R=0/SIG=11d53kq3t/*http://advision.webevents.ya
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the Curves lifestyle.
 
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__,_._,___ 




**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family 
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From wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU  Fri May 16 01:03:05 2008
From: wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU (William J Poser)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 21:03:05 -0400
Subject: clip art collection
Message-ID: <THU.15.MAY.2008.210305.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

People looking for clip art for teaching materials might want to
check out: http://www.wpclipart.com
They have a collection of public domain clip art, all in lossless PNG
format, currently totalling 21,005 images. You can use their search
function to find the specific items you are looking for, or download
the whole thing, which comes to just under 700MB.

Bill
 


From rzs at WILDBLUE.NET  Fri May 16 06:06:40 2008
From: rzs at WILDBLUE.NET (Richard Smith)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 23:06:40 -0700
Subject: Amazon peoples remain unreached (fwd link)
In-Reply-To: <6d8c8c410805150948n377e40cfh5878778c320ac7a6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <THU.15.MAY.2008.230640.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Kweh Heather,

It seems He was patient and gentle with the poor and needy, but
actually Yeshua didn't have much patience with the religious leaders
of the time :
"You hypocrits! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert
and ... make them twice a son of Ge-henom as you are!"

Good suggestions!
There ARE compassionate outsiders who work to bring clean water
to villages and use engineer skills and medicine along with indigenous
savy to better peoples lives....but sadly, protecting indigenous lands
doesn't seem to be a priority for most mission "outreaches"

Richard Zane Smith
Wyandotte Oklahoma



On 5/15/08 9:48 AM, "Heather Souter" <hsouter at GMAIL.COM> wrote:

> Taanshi,
> 
> I am with you, Richard!
> 
> Just some more musings....
> 
> Unreached (and untouched) by missionaries....  Considering the damage
> undone to many indigenous peoples in the name of "God"....  Perhaps
> the power of the "WORD of God" might be better used working for
> protection of these peoples' traditional territories!  That would be a
> much more constructive to act out the "Gospel".  These missionaries
> sound like a bunch religious "Indiana Jones" types!  I guess when you
> are in the business of saving souls, respect can be thrown out the
> window!  (Interestingly enough, I think the stories of Jesus
> interaction with others are always seem to be respectful in
> nature....)
> 
> Eekoshi pitamaa.
> Heather
> 
> On 5/15/08, Richard Smith <rzs at wildblue.net> wrote:
>> sorry i can't help but respond
>>  "unreached?"
>>    amazing
>>  a Creator who can design bees and ants to communicate truth
>>  even incredible complicated messages
>>  somehow can't "reach" human beings without missionaries
>> 
>>  Richard Zane Smith
>>  Wyandotte Oklahoma
>> 
>> 
>>  On 5/12/08 8:59 AM, "phil cash cash" <cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU> wrote:
>> 
>>> Amazon peoples remain unreached
>>> 
>>> Posted on May 9, 2008 | by Shawn Hendricks
>>> The Baptist Press
>>> 
>>> RICHMOND, Va. (BP)--Weary travelers stand alongside a river somewhere in
>>> South
>>> America's Amazon Basin.
>>> 
>>> After three hours of trying to maneuver upstream by motorboat to a remote
>>> village, a group of International Mission Board missionaries grudgingly
>>> accepts
>>> the realization that the day's journey has ended. Shallow waters, exposed
>>> rocks,
>>> tree limbs and a rough current that nearly capsized the boat won't allow the
>>> group to go any farther.
>>> 
>>> Score a victory for the Amazon.
>>> 
>>> Thousands of miles of dense jungle create a daunting "wall" for those
>>> wanting
>>> to
>>> take the Gospel to this area. For some of the people groups in remote areas,
>>> their only hope to hear about Jesus is through faithful Christians praying
>>> that
>>> the Gospel message will reach them.
>>> 
>>> Access full article below:
>>> http://www.bpnews.net/BPnews.asp?ID=28027
>> 


From hsouter at GMAIL.COM  Fri May 16 04:43:23 2008
From: hsouter at GMAIL.COM (Heather Souter)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 23:43:23 -0500
Subject: Amazon peoples remain unreached (fwd link)
In-Reply-To: <C4527280.47FB%rzs@wildblue.net>
Message-ID: <THU.15.MAY.2008.234323.0500.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Taanshi, Richard,

I wish those missionaries could hear the WORDS you quoted!  But, then again,
perhaps they wouldn't recognize anything of themselves....

Eekoshi pitamaa.
Heather

PS: Kihchi-maarsii (thank-you very much) for sharing your poetry in a
previous thread!



On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 1:06 AM, Richard Smith <rzs at wildblue.net> wrote:

> Kweh Heather,
>
> It seems He was patient and gentle with the poor and needy, but
> actually Yeshua didn't have much patience with the religious leaders
> of the time :
> "You hypocrits! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert
> and ... make them twice a son of Ge-henom as you are!"
>
> Good suggestions!
> There ARE compassionate outsiders who work to bring clean water
> to villages and use engineer skills and medicine along with indigenous
> savy to better peoples lives....but sadly, protecting indigenous lands
> doesn't seem to be a priority for most mission "outreaches"
>
> Richard Zane Smith
> Wyandotte Oklahoma
>
>
>
> On 5/15/08 9:48 AM, "Heather Souter" <hsouter at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>
> > Taanshi,
> >
> > I am with you, Richard!
> >
> > Just some more musings....
> >
> > Unreached (and untouched) by missionaries....  Considering the damage
> > undone to many indigenous peoples in the name of "God"....  Perhaps
> > the power of the "WORD of God" might be better used working for
> > protection of these peoples' traditional territories!  That would be a
> > much more constructive to act out the "Gospel".  These missionaries
> > sound like a bunch religious "Indiana Jones" types!  I guess when you
> > are in the business of saving souls, respect can be thrown out the
> > window!  (Interestingly enough, I think the stories of Jesus
> > interaction with others are always seem to be respectful in
> > nature....)
> >
> > Eekoshi pitamaa.
> > Heather
> >
> > On 5/15/08, Richard Smith <rzs at wildblue.net> wrote:
> >> sorry i can't help but respond
> >>  "unreached?"
> >>    amazing
> >>  a Creator who can design bees and ants to communicate truth
> >>  even incredible complicated messages
> >>  somehow can't "reach" human beings without missionaries
> >>
> >>  Richard Zane Smith
> >>  Wyandotte Oklahoma
> >>
> >>
> >>  On 5/12/08 8:59 AM, "phil cash cash" <cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Amazon peoples remain unreached
> >>>
> >>> Posted on May 9, 2008 | by Shawn Hendricks
> >>> The Baptist Press
> >>>
> >>> RICHMOND, Va. (BP)--Weary travelers stand alongside a river somewhere
> in
> >>> South
> >>> America's Amazon Basin.
> >>>
> >>> After three hours of trying to maneuver upstream by motorboat to a
> remote
> >>> village, a group of International Mission Board missionaries grudgingly
> >>> accepts
> >>> the realization that the day's journey has ended. Shallow waters,
> exposed
> >>> rocks,
> >>> tree limbs and a rough current that nearly capsized the boat won't
> allow the
> >>> group to go any farther.
> >>>
> >>> Score a victory for the Amazon.
> >>>
> >>> Thousands of miles of dense jungle create a daunting "wall" for those
> >>> wanting
> >>> to
> >>> take the Gospel to this area. For some of the people groups in remote
> areas,
> >>> their only hope to hear about Jesus is through faithful Christians
> praying
> >>> that
> >>> the Gospel message will reach them.
> >>>
> >>> Access full article below:
> >>> http://www.bpnews.net/BPnews.asp?ID=28027
> >>
>
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From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Fri May 16 06:18:25 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 23:18:25 -0700
Subject: Goodbye Dr. Marika
Message-ID: <THU.15.MAY.2008.231825.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

A very beautiful lady whom I had a chance to meet, be inspired by, and a look up
to has passed on.  She was a true advocate for her Yolngu people and language
and so much more.

Phil Cash Cash
UofA
~~~

Scholar, cultural protector Dr R.Marika dies at 49
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23688827-5013172,00.html

Passing of Dr R Marika
http://www.jennymacklin.fahcsia.gov.au/internet/jennymacklin.nsf/content/drmarika_12may08.htm


From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Fri May 16 16:01:35 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 09:01:35 -0700
Subject: Harper to apologize for residential school abuse (fwd link)
Message-ID: <FRI.16.MAY.2008.090135.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Harper to apologize for residential school abuse

Updated Thu. May. 15 2008 9:47 PM ET
CTV.ca News Staff

Prime Minister Stephen Harper will make a long-awaited apology for the rampant
abuses at native residential schools on June 11 in Parliament.

Indian Affairs Minister Chuck Strahl made the announcement Thursday saying,
"This is going to be a very meaningful and respectful apology."

The announcement comes before a national aboriginal day of action on May 29 that
may include highway and railroad blockades.

Access full article below:
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080515/residential_apology_080515/20080515?hub=TopStories


From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Fri May 16 16:04:06 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 09:04:06 -0700
Subject: Guide aims to keep language alive (fwd link)
Message-ID: <FRI.16.MAY.2008.090406.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Guide aims to keep language alive

Australia
Posted Fri May 16, 2008 7:12am AEST
Updated Fri May 16, 2008 7:25am AEST

A new guide for schools aims to help Aboriginal people in South Australia's
upper south-east keep their language alive.

Access full article below:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/05/16/2246355.htm


From suomichris at GMAIL.COM  Fri May 16 18:12:45 2008
From: suomichris at GMAIL.COM (Christopher Doty)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 11:12:45 -0700
Subject: NILI Summer Institute 2008
Message-ID: <FRI.16.MAY.2008.111245.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Please join us for the 11th annual NILI Summer Institute at the
University of Oregon July 7th - 18th, 2008. Courses will cover a range
of topics, including Northwest Native languages, linguistics,
materials and technology, and teaching methods.  This year, we will
explore ways that parents, programs and language teachers can
encourage language use outside the classroom.

Courses offered:

Teaching Methods for Indian Languages:  Language in the Home (1 credit)

	Instructor:  Lindsay Marean

Classroom Materials and Technology  (1 credit)

	Instructors:  Chris Doty, Judith Fernandes

Introduction to Linguistics (1 credit)

	Instructor: Janne Underriner

 Introduction to Sahaptin Linguistics (1 credit)

	Instructor: Joana Jansen

Advanced Linguistics for NW Indian Languages (1 credit)

	Instructor: TBA

Chinuk Wawa (1 credit)

	Instructor: Tony Johnson

Sahaptin (1 credit)

	Instructor: Virginia Beavert

Lushootseed - A Total Immersion language Class  (1 credit)

	Instructor: Zalmai (Zeke) Zahir

For complete course descriptions and costs, please see
http://www.uoregon.edu/~nwili/institute.html



Weekend Workshop: July 11-13, 2008

…>>><<<… A Basket Story and Mapping Language to Land: Language in the
Home …>>><<<…

It is vital for communities, teachers and language programs to develop
strategies to bring language home to the families, and encourage
families to participate within the classroom. This workshop will
develop curriculum and materials that connect the classroom with the
home.

Mnemonic devices are objects that cause us to remember a topic.  For
example, a picture of a "cat" can help remind a student of the word
for cat, or even a story about their own pet.  Different objects
create different memories for all of us. The curriculum and lesson
plans we will be covering during the weekend workshop involve
developing two different mnemonic devices to get language used in the
home.  They are as follows:

A Basket Story: Baskets are an integral part to indigenous culture.
They  "weave" our lives into connections with nature, materials,
elders, stories, history, and much, much more.  Each individual's
basket story is different, though everyone's is significant.  Some
stories are straight forward, going in a straight line with a clear
beginning and end.  Other stories are tightly woven and cover several
themes.  They can cover current events, as well as, traditional
history.  Such is the diversity of basketry.  Some baskets are only
one material, woven under, over, under, over…  Others are tightly
twisted, involving several resources and have intricate designs.  Some
baskets are only woven with traditional materials, while others
incorporate contemporary materials, meshing new with old.

Each language program will be selecting a tribal basket story for this
workshop.  If you can, bring a basket, or photo of a weaver or basket
that you would like to use to tell your story.  This object will be
the center piece for your lesson plan development and mnemonic device.

Mapping Language to Land:  Everyone has stories when traveling.  They
usually begin with, "This is where I locked my keys in the car when…"
or, "This is where my grandfather use to take me hunting…"  or,  "My
tribe picks berries on that hill, because…. and that is why it is
called…." As in basket stories, each of these stories are unique.
This is not literally language in the home, but what is meant by
language in the home is language used by families, and we are usually
with our families (at least close friends) when we are traveling in a
vehicle.

Each language group will be coming up with their own story that is
tied to the land.  Hence: they will be creating curriculum around the
idea of Mapping Language to Land.  The actual location will serve as
the mnemonic device.  Please try to have some story ideas that will
tie your language to the land.

Zalmai (Zeke) Zahir will lead the workshop. He is a scholar and
instructor of the Lushootseed language and culture. For over thirty
years he has studied with elderly speakers, researching, transcribing
and translating Lushootseed. He has authored and co-authored a number
of Lushootseed language publications

The workshop follows the theme of Language in the Home, and will run a
half day Friday, all day Saturday, and Sunday morning. It will be a
required part of the curriculum for full summer institute
participants, but also available for those of you who can't make it
for the full institute.

--

For more information on the Summer Institute, please see
http://www.uoregon.edu/~nwili/institute.html

Priority registration deadline: June 2, 2008.  Registration forms are
available at http://www.uoregon.edu/~nwili/institute.html  After June
2, 2008, registration will be on a space-available basis.

We hope to see you in Eugene this summer!

Northwest Indian Language Institute

University of Oregon
1629 Moss Street
Eugene, OR  97403
nwili at uoregon.edu
phone 541.346.0730
fax 541.346.6086


From suomichris at GMAIL.COM  Fri May 16 18:59:33 2008
From: suomichris at GMAIL.COM (Christopher Doty)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 11:59:33 -0700
Subject: build a font for your endangered language...
In-Reply-To: <20080513221532.9DCCAB24F6@lorax.ldc.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <FRI.16.MAY.2008.115933.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Having resources like these to build a font can be extremely valuable.
 However, keep in mind that any font developed using this systems is
going to be VERY limited.  You're not going to be able to send emails
in the language, or use other forms of technology very easily.

Just something to keep in mind when developing a font...

Chris

On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 3:15 PM, William J Poser <wjposer at ldc.upenn.edu> wrote:
> Another useful tool, albeit one that requires installation and is
> a little harder to use than fontstruct, is FontForge:
> http://fontforge.sourceforge.net/
> which allows you to create fonts, convert them from one type to another,
> change the encoding, and edit them in a variety of ways. It is also
> possible to use it to take glyphs from different fonts and combine them
> into a single font.
>
> Bill
>


From wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU  Fri May 16 19:38:30 2008
From: wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU (William J Poser)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 15:38:30 -0400
Subject: build a font for your endangered language...
In-Reply-To: <a1173fff0805161159x2d14a0f9s62052dff58ff4613@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.16.MAY.2008.153830.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Christopher Doty writes:
>Having resources like these to build a font can be extremely valuable.
>However, keep in mind that any font developed using this systems is
>going to be VERY limited.  You're not going to be able to send emails
>in the language, or use other forms of technology very easily.

I'm not sure why you say this.

If you generate a Truetype or Opentype font, it will be usable on
virtually any computer. The thing to avoid is using non-standard
encodings. If you use a Unicode encoding, then just about any 
reasonably modern software, including email software and web browsers,
will be able to use the font.

It is true, of course, that people will need to download and install
your font in order to use it. The problem of people not knowing
how to do this can be overcome by providing or linking to clear
instructions on font installation for the various operating systems.
It isn't that difficult on any of the systems I am familiar with.
The difficulty that is harder to overcome is that some people may
not have control over the machines they use at work and may be
unable to install fonts even if they know how.

Bill


From suomichris at GMAIL.COM  Fri May 16 19:52:03 2008
From: suomichris at GMAIL.COM (Christopher Doty)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 12:52:03 -0700
Subject: build a font for your endangered language...
In-Reply-To: <20080516193830.26F4CB2478@lorax.ldc.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <FRI.16.MAY.2008.125203.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

The problem is that there are lots of venues where a font simply CAN'T
be installed (cell phones, webmail applications, and blogging
platforms come immediately to mind), as well as public computers, as
you noted.  Developing a font that can't be used in these areas
inherently limits the use of the language, excluding it from use in
many modern contexts which lots of us, especially kids, use on a daily
basis and as our main means of communicating with friends, family, and
colleagues.  This exclusion can reinforce the idea that the language
is something old, historical, out-of-date, that belongs solely in the
past, instead of a vibrant, living entity.

Chris

On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 12:38 PM, William J Poser <wjposer at ldc.upenn.edu> wrote:
> Christopher Doty writes:
>>Having resources like these to build a font can be extremely valuable.
>>However, keep in mind that any font developed using this systems is
>>going to be VERY limited.  You're not going to be able to send emails
>>in the language, or use other forms of technology very easily.
>
> I'm not sure why you say this.
>
> If you generate a Truetype or Opentype font, it will be usable on
> virtually any computer. The thing to avoid is using non-standard
> encodings. If you use a Unicode encoding, then just about any
> reasonably modern software, including email software and web browsers,
> will be able to use the font.
>
> It is true, of course, that people will need to download and install
> your font in order to use it. The problem of people not knowing
> how to do this can be overcome by providing or linking to clear
> instructions on font installation for the various operating systems.
> It isn't that difficult on any of the systems I am familiar with.
> The difficulty that is harder to overcome is that some people may
> not have control over the machines they use at work and may be
> unable to install fonts even if they know how.
>
> Bill
>


From wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU  Fri May 16 20:03:57 2008
From: wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU (William J Poser)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 16:03:57 -0400
Subject: build a font for your endangered language...
In-Reply-To: <a1173fff0805161252g5a2c9e2di97fa074f0b9be90@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.16.MAY.2008.160357.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Christopher Doty writes:
>The problem is that there are lots of venues where a font simply CAN'T
>be installed (cell phones, webmail applications, and blogging
>platforms come immediately to mind), as well as public computers, as
>you noted.

Yes, that is true of cell phones. Is it true of webmail applications
and blogging platforms? I don't have enough experience of webmail to know,
but I have used Movable Type and Wordpress for blogging and they don't
seem to have a problem using whatever fonts I install on my system.

Bill


From suomichris at GMAIL.COM  Fri May 16 20:12:51 2008
From: suomichris at GMAIL.COM (Christopher Doty)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 13:12:51 -0700
Subject: build a font for your endangered language...
In-Reply-To: <20080516200357.09E35B243A@lorax.ldc.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <FRI.16.MAY.2008.131251.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

The problem is more with web-based blogging platforms which, like
email applications, don't allow you to install fonts.  The additional
problem is that, even if you use WordPress, anyone else in the world
who views the blog won't be able to see the characters correctly.  The
same for email: the program you use might allow you to type in any
font you like, but it will likely end up garbled if you're emailing
someone with the hotmail address..

Chris

On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 1:03 PM, William J Poser <wjposer at ldc.upenn.edu> wrote:
> Christopher Doty writes:
>>The problem is that there are lots of venues where a font simply CAN'T
>>be installed (cell phones, webmail applications, and blogging
>>platforms come immediately to mind), as well as public computers, as
>>you noted.
>
> Yes, that is true of cell phones. Is it true of webmail applications
> and blogging platforms? I don't have enough experience of webmail to know,
> but I have used Movable Type and Wordpress for blogging and they don't
> seem to have a problem using whatever fonts I install on my system.
>
> Bill
>


From wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU  Fri May 16 20:24:00 2008
From: wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU (William J Poser)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 16:24:00 -0400
Subject: build a font for your endangered language...
In-Reply-To: <a1173fff0805161312i105cd7cdt3cb2c28a9c9687a7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.16.MAY.2008.162400.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

I'm confused. The web-based blogging platforms don't use the fonts
your system has installed? Are you sure you aren't talking about
fonts that use non-standard ENCODINGS?

Bill


From donaghy at HAWAII.EDU  Fri May 16 21:16:58 2008
From: donaghy at HAWAII.EDU (Keola Donaghy)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 09:16:58 +1200
Subject: build a font for your endangered language...
In-Reply-To: <a1173fff0805161312i105cd7cdt3cb2c28a9c9687a7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SAT.17.MAY.2008.091658.1200.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Aloha We created and used our custom fonts back in 1994 and are still  
slowly trying to wean ourselves from them and switch completely to  
Unicode. Chris nails it - in order for it to work your users need to  
install them or use something like GlyphGate which will embed them in  
the web documents. You can make installation as easy as possible and  
by and large only the hard-core language enthusiast and people who  
absolutely have to will actually install them.

Our custom fonts are largely used now for publishing work since we  
have so many more of those than there are fonts with all of the right  
glyphs in Unicode, but for web use haven't used them in 4-5 years.

Keola


On 17 Mei 2008, at 8:12 AM, Christopher Doty wrote:

> The problem is more with web-based blogging platforms which, like
> email applications, don't allow you to install fonts.  The additional
> problem is that, even if you use WordPress, anyone else in the world
> who views the blog won't be able to see the characters correctly.  The
> same for email: the program you use might allow you to type in any
> font you like, but it will likely end up garbled if you're emailing
> someone with the hotmail address..
>
> Chris
>
> On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 1:03 PM, William J Poser <wjposer at ldc.upenn.edu 
> > wrote:
>> Christopher Doty writes:
>>> The problem is that there are lots of venues where a font simply  
>>> CAN'T
>>> be installed (cell phones, webmail applications, and blogging
>>> platforms come immediately to mind), as well as public computers, as
>>> you noted.
>>
>> Yes, that is true of cell phones. Is it true of webmail applications
>> and blogging platforms? I don't have enough experience of webmail  
>> to know,
>> but I have used Movable Type and Wordpress for blogging and they  
>> don't
>> seem to have a problem using whatever fonts I install on my system.
>>
>> Bill
>>



========================================================================
Keola Donaghy
Assistant Professor of Hawaiian Studies
Ka Haka 'Ula O Ke'elikolani             keola at leoki.uhh.hawaii.edu
University of Hawai'i at Hilo           http://www2.hawaii.edu/~donaghy/

"Tír gan teanga, tír gan anam."  (Irish Gaelic saying)
A country without its language is a country without its soul.
========================================================================



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From wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU  Fri May 16 22:04:13 2008
From: wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU (William J Poser)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 18:04:13 -0400
Subject: build a font for your endangered language...
In-Reply-To: <26C351BD-288E-4EC3-B376-5834FEA7E910@hawaii.edu>
Message-ID: <FRI.16.MAY.2008.180413.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Keola Donaghy 'uk'uneisguz:

>Aloha We created and used our custom fonts back in 1994 and are
>still slowly trying to wean ourselves from them and switch
>completely to Unicode.

Actually, I think this confirms what I have been saying: using
custom fonts is NOT a problem, except in cases like cell phones
and work machines over which users have no control, where you
can't install them.

The problem is not custom fonts, it is custom ENCODINGS.

Since I think some people may not be clear on the distinction,
let me explain. Text in a computer really consists of a sequence
of character codes, which are non-negative integers. The computer
doesn't really store an "a" - it stores a number which by convention
is associated with the character "a". Once upon a time, in the days
of "dumb terminals" and fixed-encoding keyboards, this was all hard-wired.
When you pressed the "a" key on your keyboard it sent a certain small
integer to your computer, and when the computer sent that same small
integer to the terminal, the terminal displayed the corresponding
glyph. Nowadays it is possible to program what codes are generated by
particular keyboard events and what glyphs are displayed, but
the basic principle is the same: text consists of a sequence of
numbers.

What until recently was by far the most common encoding was ASCII,
in which "a" has the character code 97. (Character codes are normally
given in hexadecimal but I'll translate into decimal here.) "b" is
98, "c" is 99. "A" is 65, "B" is 66, "C" is 67, etc. So, if you
have an ASCII-encoded font containing glyphs for the roman alphabet,
sending the code 98 to the display will select the glyph for "b"
and display it.

For other languages there are other encodings. If, for example,
you use the ARMSCII7 encoding (which you might have done if you
were an Armenian), if you send the code 98 to the display instead
of the letter "b" you would get the Armenian capital letter cha.

Until recently, at best there was a single standard for each language
and writing system, so that everybody would be on the same wavelength
within that language and writing system. Fonts for Armenian or
Russian or Hebrew or whatever would be encoded according to the
standard for that language. Then things would be simple so long
as you were using that language, but would get messy if, say,
you need to use Armenian and English in the same document, or
wanted to write in Russian on a machine set up for Hebrew.
Furthermore, in many cases there were multiple encodings for the
same writing system. Sometimes, every font had its own idiosyncratic
encoding. (The champions seem to be the Ethiopians, who had over
40 known encodings for Amharic.)

In this situation, where every font potentially uses its own
encoding, for other people to use your font it isn't sufficient
for them to install it - their software has to understand its
encoding.

With much current software, so long as your font uses a well-known
encoding, the software can use it because it contains or knows how
to look up information about the encoding. Your browser, for example,
almost certainly (a) attempts to detect the encoding of the web page
it displays and (b) allows you to tell it what encoding to use (in case
it fails to guess correctly - this happens with some frequency, in part
because many web pages lie about their encoding and the browser accepts
the lie). But if you have a truly idiosyncratic encoding in your font,
software may not know what to do with it.

What Unicode does is unify all writing systems into a single encoding.
In Unicode "b" and Armenian capital cha do not compete for the
same codepoint. Instead, "b" is 98 as in ASCII and Armenian capital
cha is 1353. With everything included in a single encoding, you can
mix writing systems easiy within a single document and use one writing
system on a system set up for another.

So, if you create your own font but use Unicode as the encoding,
so long as people are able to install your font they should have no
problem using it. What you should not do is create fonts that use
your own idiosyncratic encoding.

One of the uses of FontForge is in fact reencoding an existing font.
You can see an example of this at:
http://billposer.org/Linguistics/Computation/Reencoding/HowTo.html
The examples used in this tutorial are based on a real task.
I wanted to be able to use Linear B and at the time could only
find a font that used an idiosyncratic encoding. So I took that
font and changed the encoding to Unicode.

Bill


From hsouter at GMAIL.COM  Fri May 16 23:30:10 2008
From: hsouter at GMAIL.COM (Heather Souter)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 18:30:10 -0500
Subject: build a font for your endangered language...
In-Reply-To: <20080516220413.CBAE6B245E@lorax.ldc.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <FRI.16.MAY.2008.183010.0500.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Taanshi,

I am wondering how to go about creating a new character and how to go about
getting a unicode codepoint for it.  What I have in mind is is an <n> with
a</> over it....  Any advice or suggestions?

Kihchi-maarsii!

Eekoshi.
Heather Souter
Michif Language Activist and
Community Linguist

On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 5:04 PM, William J Poser <wjposer at ldc.upenn.edu>
wrote:

> Keola Donaghy 'uk'uneisguz:
>
> >Aloha We created and used our custom fonts back in 1994 and are
> >still slowly trying to wean ourselves from them and switch
> >completely to Unicode.
>
> Actually, I think this confirms what I have been saying: using
> custom fonts is NOT a problem, except in cases like cell phones
> and work machines over which users have no control, where you
> can't install them.
>
> The problem is not custom fonts, it is custom ENCODINGS.
>
> Since I think some people may not be clear on the distinction,
> let me explain. Text in a computer really consists of a sequence
> of character codes, which are non-negative integers. The computer
> doesn't really store an "a" - it stores a number which by convention
> is associated with the character "a". Once upon a time, in the days
> of "dumb terminals" and fixed-encoding keyboards, this was all hard-wired.
> When you pressed the "a" key on your keyboard it sent a certain small
> integer to your computer, and when the computer sent that same small
> integer to the terminal, the terminal displayed the corresponding
> glyph. Nowadays it is possible to program what codes are generated by
> particular keyboard events and what glyphs are displayed, but
> the basic principle is the same: text consists of a sequence of
> numbers.
>
> What until recently was by far the most common encoding was ASCII,
> in which "a" has the character code 97. (Character codes are normally
> given in hexadecimal but I'll translate into decimal here.) "b" is
> 98, "c" is 99. "A" is 65, "B" is 66, "C" is 67, etc. So, if you
> have an ASCII-encoded font containing glyphs for the roman alphabet,
> sending the code 98 to the display will select the glyph for "b"
> and display it.
>
> For other languages there are other encodings. If, for example,
> you use the ARMSCII7 encoding (which you might have done if you
> were an Armenian), if you send the code 98 to the display instead
> of the letter "b" you would get the Armenian capital letter cha.
>
> Until recently, at best there was a single standard for each language
> and writing system, so that everybody would be on the same wavelength
> within that language and writing system. Fonts for Armenian or
> Russian or Hebrew or whatever would be encoded according to the
> standard for that language. Then things would be simple so long
> as you were using that language, but would get messy if, say,
> you need to use Armenian and English in the same document, or
> wanted to write in Russian on a machine set up for Hebrew.
> Furthermore, in many cases there were multiple encodings for the
> same writing system. Sometimes, every font had its own idiosyncratic
> encoding. (The champions seem to be the Ethiopians, who had over
> 40 known encodings for Amharic.)
>
> In this situation, where every font potentially uses its own
> encoding, for other people to use your font it isn't sufficient
> for them to install it - their software has to understand its
> encoding.
>
> With much current software, so long as your font uses a well-known
> encoding, the software can use it because it contains or knows how
> to look up information about the encoding. Your browser, for example,
> almost certainly (a) attempts to detect the encoding of the web page
> it displays and (b) allows you to tell it what encoding to use (in case
> it fails to guess correctly - this happens with some frequency, in part
> because many web pages lie about their encoding and the browser accepts
> the lie). But if you have a truly idiosyncratic encoding in your font,
> software may not know what to do with it.
>
> What Unicode does is unify all writing systems into a single encoding.
> In Unicode "b" and Armenian capital cha do not compete for the
> same codepoint. Instead, "b" is 98 as in ASCII and Armenian capital
> cha is 1353. With everything included in a single encoding, you can
> mix writing systems easiy within a single document and use one writing
> system on a system set up for another.
>
> So, if you create your own font but use Unicode as the encoding,
> so long as people are able to install your font they should have no
> problem using it. What you should not do is create fonts that use
> your own idiosyncratic encoding.
>
> One of the uses of FontForge is in fact reencoding an existing font.
> You can see an example of this at:
> http://billposer.org/Linguistics/Computation/Reencoding/HowTo.html
> The examples used in this tutorial are based on a real task.
> I wanted to be able to use Linear B and at the time could only
> find a font that used an idiosyncratic encoding. So I took that
> font and changed the encoding to Unicode.
>
> Bill
>
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From wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU  Sat May 17 00:03:11 2008
From: wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU (William J Poser)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 20:03:11 -0400
Subject: build a font for your endangered language...
In-Reply-To: <6d8c8c410805161630nd6cd266wfd9c81c2d418b67f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.16.MAY.2008.200311.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

To get a character added to Unicode  you need to submit a proposal
to the Unicode Consortium. Their web site is: http://www.unicode.org.
The crucial thing is that you must be able to show that the character
is or has been in actual use. If you are designing a new writing system
and are creating new characters, Unicode will not encode them right away.
You'll have to start using them first.

Now, this may seem like Catch-22: how can you use them before Unicode
encodes them? Are you forced to use a nasty idiosyncratic encoding?
Well, not exactly. Unicode includes several sets of codepoints called
"Private Use Area"s. These are guaranteed never to be used for official
Unicode purposes. Programs that process Unicode text can use them for
internal purposes, and you can use them for characters that have not yet
been officially encoded.

But, turning to your specific need, when you say you need <n> with a </>
over it, do you need a real slash or will an acute accent do? <n>
with acute accent is already available. It is U+0144 in lower case,
U+0143 in upper case. (U+XXXX is the notation used by the Unicode
consortium. XXXX is the codepoint in hexadecimal. So these are characters
344 and 343 in decimal.) Or when you say over do you mean not "above" but
"through", that is, "n with a slash through it"?

Bill
 


From lang.support at GMAIL.COM  Sat May 17 00:04:32 2008
From: lang.support at GMAIL.COM (Andrew Cunningham)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 10:04:32 +1000
Subject: build a font for your endangered language...
In-Reply-To: <20080516220413.CBAE6B245E@lorax.ldc.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <SAT.17.MAY.2008.100432.1000.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Custom encodings are one problem, and should be avoided.

But the reality is many languages aren't supported by core operating
system fonts, which introduced all sorts of difficulties when using
web services such as emails.

Custom unicode fonts have their uses, and many languages rely on them,
but only really work if people have downloaded them.

And you need a certain amount of IT knowledge to override the fonts
used by various web services by default.


Andrew

2008/5/17 William J Poser <wjposer at ldc.upenn.edu>:
> Keola Donaghy 'uk'uneisguz:
>
>>Aloha We created and used our custom fonts back in 1994 and are
>>still slowly trying to wean ourselves from them and switch
>>completely to Unicode.
>
> Actually, I think this confirms what I have been saying: using
> custom fonts is NOT a problem, except in cases like cell phones
> and work machines over which users have no control, where you
> can't install them.
>
> The problem is not custom fonts, it is custom ENCODINGS.
>
> Since I think some people may not be clear on the distinction,
> let me explain. Text in a computer really consists of a sequence
> of character codes, which are non-negative integers. The computer
> doesn't really store an "a" - it stores a number which by convention
> is associated with the character "a". Once upon a time, in the days
> of "dumb terminals" and fixed-encoding keyboards, this was all hard-wired.
> When you pressed the "a" key on your keyboard it sent a certain small
> integer to your computer, and when the computer sent that same small
> integer to the terminal, the terminal displayed the corresponding
> glyph. Nowadays it is possible to program what codes are generated by
> particular keyboard events and what glyphs are displayed, but
> the basic principle is the same: text consists of a sequence of
> numbers.
>
> What until recently was by far the most common encoding was ASCII,
> in which "a" has the character code 97. (Character codes are normally
> given in hexadecimal but I'll translate into decimal here.) "b" is
> 98, "c" is 99. "A" is 65, "B" is 66, "C" is 67, etc. So, if you
> have an ASCII-encoded font containing glyphs for the roman alphabet,
> sending the code 98 to the display will select the glyph for "b"
> and display it.
>
> For other languages there are other encodings. If, for example,
> you use the ARMSCII7 encoding (which you might have done if you
> were an Armenian), if you send the code 98 to the display instead
> of the letter "b" you would get the Armenian capital letter cha.
>
> Until recently, at best there was a single standard for each language
> and writing system, so that everybody would be on the same wavelength
> within that language and writing system. Fonts for Armenian or
> Russian or Hebrew or whatever would be encoded according to the
> standard for that language. Then things would be simple so long
> as you were using that language, but would get messy if, say,
> you need to use Armenian and English in the same document, or
> wanted to write in Russian on a machine set up for Hebrew.
> Furthermore, in many cases there were multiple encodings for the
> same writing system. Sometimes, every font had its own idiosyncratic
> encoding. (The champions seem to be the Ethiopians, who had over
> 40 known encodings for Amharic.)
>
> In this situation, where every font potentially uses its own
> encoding, for other people to use your font it isn't sufficient
> for them to install it - their software has to understand its
> encoding.
>
> With much current software, so long as your font uses a well-known
> encoding, the software can use it because it contains or knows how
> to look up information about the encoding. Your browser, for example,
> almost certainly (a) attempts to detect the encoding of the web page
> it displays and (b) allows you to tell it what encoding to use (in case
> it fails to guess correctly - this happens with some frequency, in part
> because many web pages lie about their encoding and the browser accepts
> the lie). But if you have a truly idiosyncratic encoding in your font,
> software may not know what to do with it.
>
> What Unicode does is unify all writing systems into a single encoding.
> In Unicode "b" and Armenian capital cha do not compete for the
> same codepoint. Instead, "b" is 98 as in ASCII and Armenian capital
> cha is 1353. With everything included in a single encoding, you can
> mix writing systems easiy within a single document and use one writing
> system on a system set up for another.
>
> So, if you create your own font but use Unicode as the encoding,
> so long as people are able to install your font they should have no
> problem using it. What you should not do is create fonts that use
> your own idiosyncratic encoding.
>
> One of the uses of FontForge is in fact reencoding an existing font.
> You can see an example of this at:
> http://billposer.org/Linguistics/Computation/Reencoding/HowTo.html
> The examples used in this tutorial are based on a real task.
> I wanted to be able to use Linear B and at the time could only
> find a font that used an idiosyncratic encoding. So I took that
> font and changed the encoding to Unicode.
>
> Bill
>



-- 
Andrew Cunningham
Vicnet Research and Development Coordinator
State Library of Victoria
Australia

andrewc at vicnet.net.au
lang.support at gmail.com


From lang.support at GMAIL.COM  Sat May 17 00:05:37 2008
From: lang.support at GMAIL.COM (Andrew Cunningham)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 10:05:37 +1000
Subject: build a font for your endangered language...
In-Reply-To: <6d8c8c410805161630nd6cd266wfd9c81c2d418b67f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SAT.17.MAY.2008.100537.1000.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

wouldn't this just be represented by "n" followed by "U+0301"? an "n"
and a combining acute?

Andrew

2008/5/17 Heather Souter <hsouter at gmail.com>:
> Taanshi,
>
> I am wondering how to go about creating a new character and how to go about
> getting a unicode codepoint for it.  What I have in mind is is an <n> with
> a</> over it....  Any advice or suggestions?
>
> Kihchi-maarsii!
>
> Eekoshi.
> Heather Souter
> Michif Language Activist and
> Community Linguist
>
> On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 5:04 PM, William J Poser <wjposer at ldc.upenn.edu>
> wrote:
>>
>> Keola Donaghy 'uk'uneisguz:
>>
>> >Aloha We created and used our custom fonts back in 1994 and are
>> >still slowly trying to wean ourselves from them and switch
>> >completely to Unicode.
>>
>> Actually, I think this confirms what I have been saying: using
>> custom fonts is NOT a problem, except in cases like cell phones
>> and work machines over which users have no control, where you
>> can't install them.
>>
>> The problem is not custom fonts, it is custom ENCODINGS.
>>
>> Since I think some people may not be clear on the distinction,
>> let me explain. Text in a computer really consists of a sequence
>> of character codes, which are non-negative integers. The computer
>> doesn't really store an "a" - it stores a number which by convention
>> is associated with the character "a". Once upon a time, in the days
>> of "dumb terminals" and fixed-encoding keyboards, this was all hard-wired.
>> When you pressed the "a" key on your keyboard it sent a certain small
>> integer to your computer, and when the computer sent that same small
>> integer to the terminal, the terminal displayed the corresponding
>> glyph. Nowadays it is possible to program what codes are generated by
>> particular keyboard events and what glyphs are displayed, but
>> the basic principle is the same: text consists of a sequence of
>> numbers.
>>
>> What until recently was by far the most common encoding was ASCII,
>> in which "a" has the character code 97. (Character codes are normally
>> given in hexadecimal but I'll translate into decimal here.) "b" is
>> 98, "c" is 99. "A" is 65, "B" is 66, "C" is 67, etc. So, if you
>> have an ASCII-encoded font containing glyphs for the roman alphabet,
>> sending the code 98 to the display will select the glyph for "b"
>> and display it.
>>
>> For other languages there are other encodings. If, for example,
>> you use the ARMSCII7 encoding (which you might have done if you
>> were an Armenian), if you send the code 98 to the display instead
>> of the letter "b" you would get the Armenian capital letter cha.
>>
>> Until recently, at best there was a single standard for each language
>> and writing system, so that everybody would be on the same wavelength
>> within that language and writing system. Fonts for Armenian or
>> Russian or Hebrew or whatever would be encoded according to the
>> standard for that language. Then things would be simple so long
>> as you were using that language, but would get messy if, say,
>> you need to use Armenian and English in the same document, or
>> wanted to write in Russian on a machine set up for Hebrew.
>> Furthermore, in many cases there were multiple encodings for the
>> same writing system. Sometimes, every font had its own idiosyncratic
>> encoding. (The champions seem to be the Ethiopians, who had over
>> 40 known encodings for Amharic.)
>>
>> In this situation, where every font potentially uses its own
>> encoding, for other people to use your font it isn't sufficient
>> for them to install it - their software has to understand its
>> encoding.
>>
>> With much current software, so long as your font uses a well-known
>> encoding, the software can use it because it contains or knows how
>> to look up information about the encoding. Your browser, for example,
>> almost certainly (a) attempts to detect the encoding of the web page
>> it displays and (b) allows you to tell it what encoding to use (in case
>> it fails to guess correctly - this happens with some frequency, in part
>> because many web pages lie about their encoding and the browser accepts
>> the lie). But if you have a truly idiosyncratic encoding in your font,
>> software may not know what to do with it.
>>
>> What Unicode does is unify all writing systems into a single encoding.
>> In Unicode "b" and Armenian capital cha do not compete for the
>> same codepoint. Instead, "b" is 98 as in ASCII and Armenian capital
>> cha is 1353. With everything included in a single encoding, you can
>> mix writing systems easiy within a single document and use one writing
>> system on a system set up for another.
>>
>> So, if you create your own font but use Unicode as the encoding,
>> so long as people are able to install your font they should have no
>> problem using it. What you should not do is create fonts that use
>> your own idiosyncratic encoding.
>>
>> One of the uses of FontForge is in fact reencoding an existing font.
>> You can see an example of this at:
>> http://billposer.org/Linguistics/Computation/Reencoding/HowTo.html
>> The examples used in this tutorial are based on a real task.
>> I wanted to be able to use Linear B and at the time could only
>> find a font that used an idiosyncratic encoding. So I took that
>> font and changed the encoding to Unicode.
>>
>> Bill
>
>



-- 
Andrew Cunningham
Vicnet Research and Development Coordinator
State Library of Victoria
Australia

andrewc at vicnet.net.au
lang.support at gmail.com


From rzs at WILDBLUE.NET  Sat May 17 02:11:19 2008
From: rzs at WILDBLUE.NET (Richard Smith)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 19:11:19 -0700
Subject: build a font for your endangered language...
In-Reply-To: <6d8c8c410805161630nd6cd266wfd9c81c2d418b67f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.16.MAY.2008.191119.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Heather,
are these the ones?

ń  Ń
(n with a rising pitch sign above)

i suppose your computer needs to have the right encoding
but i pulled these acute n's  off the Character Palette
on my  iMac10...and dropped them on this email (did they scramble?)
they are ready-mades ,ready to go

Character Palette
under European Scripts
under Latin:
"Latin small letter n with acute"
"Latin capital letter n with acute"


-Richard




On 5/16/08 4:30 PM, "Heather Souter" <hsouter at GMAIL.COM> wrote:

> Taanshi, 
> 
> I am wondering how to go about creating a new character and how to go about
> getting a unicode codepoint for it.  What I have in mind is is an <n> with
> a</> over it....  Any advice or suggestions?
> 
> Kihchi-maarsii!
> 
> Eekoshi.
> Heather Souter
> Michif Language Activist and
> Community Linguist

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From lang.support at GMAIL.COM  Sat May 17 00:35:46 2008
From: lang.support at GMAIL.COM (Andrew Cunningham)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 10:35:46 +1000
Subject: build a font for your endangered language...
In-Reply-To: <C4538CD7.4831%rzs@wildblue.net>
Message-ID: <SAT.17.MAY.2008.103546.1000.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

And on windows are available in core fonts.

2008/5/17 Richard Smith <rzs at wildblue.net>:
> Heather,
> are these the ones?
>
> ń  Ń
> (n with a rising pitch sign above)
>
> i suppose your computer needs to have the right encoding
> but i pulled these acute n's  off the Character Palette
> on my  iMac10...and dropped them on this email (did they scramble?)
> they are ready-mades ,ready to go
>
> Character Palette
> under European Scripts
> under Latin:
> "Latin small letter n with acute"
> "Latin capital letter n with acute"
>
>
> -Richard
>
>
>
>
> On 5/16/08 4:30 PM, "Heather Souter" <hsouter at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>
> Taanshi,
>
> I am wondering how to go about creating a new character and how to go about
> getting a unicode codepoint for it.  What I have in mind is is an <n> with
> a</> over it....  Any advice or suggestions?
>
> Kihchi-maarsii!
>
> Eekoshi.
> Heather Souter
> Michif Language Activist and
> Community Linguist
>



-- 
Andrew Cunningham
Vicnet Research and Development Coordinator
State Library of Victoria
Australia

andrewc at vicnet.net.au
lang.support at gmail.com


From hsouter at GMAIL.COM  Sat May 17 02:29:57 2008
From: hsouter at GMAIL.COM (Heather Souter)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 21:29:57 -0500
Subject: build a font for your endangered language...
In-Reply-To: <9d70cb000805161735h186ea9egb31a8e91535054c1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.16.MAY.2008.212957.0500.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Taanshi all,

Actually, what I was hoping for was an <n> with a </> right through it.

Over twenty years ago (to be sure), an Elder from the Turtle Mountain
Reservation in North Dakota published a few resources using a character like
this.  From what I can tell, the backslash was added after the fact.  The
special 'n' was used as a character to mark nasalization of the vowel(s
immediately  before it.

Now, I realize that a tilde over a vowel is what is normally used.  However,
since Michif has quite a few French-origin elements (+/-50%?), many of our
Elders were (still are?) multilingual and familiar with French-spellings,
and many learners in Canada (at least) rely on French dictionaries to guess
at the meaning of some French-origin words,  a character like this could
help quite a few people recognize Michif cognates of French words.

One orthography we are presently using a modified  double-vowel system which
includes an n with a tilde over it to mark nasalization.  It  works quite
well but we had really wanted an <n> with a </> through it to mark the nasal
vowels in both French-origin and Cree-origin elements.  (Yes, we have nasal
vowels in Cree-origin elements of (almost ?)all  dialects of Michif!  Our
language is, in so many ways,  blend doing things that are not normally done
in its languages of origin!)

Anyhow, that is the story behind my desire to have this new character....

Kihchi-maarsii pur kakiyaw tii ziidii!

Eekoshi pitamaa.

Heather

PS: How do I get a tilde over an <n> when writing emails using a PC.  I can
do this on my MAC but haven't figured out how to do this on a PC....

On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 7:35 PM, Andrew Cunningham <lang.support at gmail.com>
wrote:

> And on windows are available in core fonts.
>
> 2008/5/17 Richard Smith <rzs at wildblue.net>:
> > Heather,
> > are these the ones?
> >
> > ń  Ń
> > (n with a rising pitch sign above)
> >
> > i suppose your computer needs to have the right encoding
> > but i pulled these acute n's  off the Character Palette
> > on my  iMac10...and dropped them on this email (did they scramble?)
> > they are ready-mades ,ready to go
> >
> > Character Palette
> > under European Scripts
> > under Latin:
> > "Latin small letter n with acute"
> > "Latin capital letter n with acute"
> >
> >
> > -Richard
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 5/16/08 4:30 PM, "Heather Souter" <hsouter at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
> >
> > Taanshi,
> >
> > I am wondering how to go about creating a new character and how to go
> about
> > getting a unicode codepoint for it.  What I have in mind is is an <n>
> with
> > a</> over it....  Any advice or suggestions?
> >
> > Kihchi-maarsii!
> >
> > Eekoshi.
> > Heather Souter
> > Michif Language Activist and
> > Community Linguist
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Andrew Cunningham
> Vicnet Research and Development Coordinator
> State Library of Victoria
> Australia
>
> andrewc at vicnet.net.au
> lang.support at gmail.com
>
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From wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU  Sat May 17 02:48:15 2008
From: wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU (William J Poser)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 22:48:15 -0400
Subject: build a font for your endangered language...
In-Reply-To: <6d8c8c410805161929g47b980d2r4e37ceafa2a9ed1b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.16.MAY.2008.224815.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Heather,

Unicode does not encode n with a slash through it as a single codepoint,
but it does have slash as a combining character. In fact, it has two:
U+0337 COMBINING SHORT SOLIDUS OVERLAY
U+0338 COMBINING LONG SOLIDUS OVERLAY
(The forward slash is called "solidus" in Unicode-speak.)

So, you can get a lower-case n overlaid by a long slash by entering
first the n and then U+0338. They are two separate codepoints but will
be rendered by Unicode-aware software as the single character you want.

Because this is treated as a sequence of two "characters" in Unicode,
you may have to do something special to get your sort order the
way you want it. Such things are a little easier if you can get what you
want as a single codepoint, but the Unicode Consortium is reluctant
to add single codepoints for things that can be composed from existing
combining characters.

Bill


From hsouter at GMAIL.COM  Sat May 17 03:00:41 2008
From: hsouter at GMAIL.COM (Heather Souter)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 22:00:41 -0500
Subject: build a font for your endangered language...
In-Reply-To: <20080517024815.45BA7B242D@lorax.ldc.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <FRI.16.MAY.2008.220041.0500.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Kihchi-maarsii pur toñ repoñs, Bill!  Thanks for your response, Bill!

So, I guess that our present way of using <ñ> really is still perhaps the
best (read easiest) compromise for our orthographic purposes?  Or, is it
simply a matter of educating myself (and other potential users of the
orthography) on the process (key strokes necessary) to produce the character
when writing?  Is there a simple way to program a key to produce the
character when hit once (using shift or control or whatever)?  Or, will it
always take a couple of key strokes?

Eekoshi kihtwaam.
Heather

On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 9:48 PM, William J Poser <wjposer at ldc.upenn.edu>
wrote:

> Heather,
>
> Unicode does not encode n with a slash through it as a single codepoint,
> but it does have slash as a combining character. In fact, it has two:
> U+0337 COMBINING SHORT SOLIDUS OVERLAY
> U+0338 COMBINING LONG SOLIDUS OVERLAY
> (The forward slash is called "solidus" in Unicode-speak.)
>
> So, you can get a lower-case n overlaid by a long slash by entering
> first the n and then U+0338. They are two separate codepoints but will
> be rendered by Unicode-aware software as the single character you want.
>
> Because this is treated as a sequence of two "characters" in Unicode,
> you may have to do something special to get your sort order the
> way you want it. Such things are a little easier if you can get what you
> want as a single codepoint, but the Unicode Consortium is reluctant
> to add single codepoints for things that can be composed from existing
> combining characters.
>
> Bill
>
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From wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU  Sat May 17 03:42:09 2008
From: wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU (William J Poser)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 23:42:09 -0400
Subject: build a font for your endangered language...
In-Reply-To: <6d8c8c410805162000j3d901805qb07b76c757d9d7c5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.16.MAY.2008.234209.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Heather,

Am I correct in assuming you're using Microsoft Windows?
If so, I'm afraid that my knowledge of MS Windows is limited.
I understand that you can create new keyboard layouts or edit
an existing one (probably what you want to do) using the
Keyboard Layout Creator, which is available from Microsoft:
http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/tools/msklc.mspx
I haven't used it so I'm afraid I can't tell  you more.
But I wouldn't be surprised if someone else on this list knows
how.

Bill


From hsouter at GMAIL.COM  Sat May 17 04:22:58 2008
From: hsouter at GMAIL.COM (Heather Souter)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 23:22:58 -0500
Subject: build a font for your endangered language...
In-Reply-To: <20080517034209.0E5E2B245E@lorax.ldc.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <FRI.16.MAY.2008.232258.0500.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Taanshi kihtwaam,

Yes, I am using Microsoft Vista Home Premium on our new laptop.  I am a Mac
user and am only learning the MS Windows environment.... (I am not much of a
computer whiz at all, however!)

I also would like to know how to do the same thing on my Mac.  If you or
anyone has pointers on how to do it on a Mac, I would really appreciate it!

Eekoshi kihtwaam.
Heather

On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 10:42 PM, William J Poser <wjposer at ldc.upenn.edu>
wrote:

> Heather,
>
> Am I correct in assuming you're using Microsoft Windows?
> If so, I'm afraid that my knowledge of MS Windows is limited.
> I understand that you can create new keyboard layouts or edit
> an existing one (probably what you want to do) using the
> Keyboard Layout Creator, which is available from Microsoft:
> http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/tools/msklc.mspx
> I haven't used it so I'm afraid I can't tell  you more.
> But I wouldn't be surprised if someone else on this list knows
> how.
>
> Bill
>
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From donaghy at HAWAII.EDU  Sat May 17 04:27:52 2008
From: donaghy at HAWAII.EDU (Keola Donaghy)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 16:27:52 +1200
Subject: Steve Cisler Passes
Message-ID: <SAT.17.MAY.2008.162752.1200.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

I was deeply saddened to learn of the passing of Steve Cisler today.  
Steve was a champion of community networking for many years and helped  
countless individuals and communities, including our Hawaiian language  
community. He also assisted other Native American groups with the use  
of technology to strengthen their communities.

The director of our Hawaiian Language Center and I met Steve at a  
community networking conference in Honolulu in 1993, when we were  
looking to start a Hawaiian language bulletin-board service for the  
immersion schools. He showed us FirstClass, the software we used to  
create Leoki, and continue to use to this day. He lent us (in his  
capacity with the Apple Library of Tomorrow program) the computer that  
we used to establish Leoki, and when we provide we could accomplish  
what we wanted, he gave us the computer as well as another which  
became our first web server in 1995. While obviously on a different  
server now, this was the first generation of Kualono. While other,  
bigger name people of that era made big promises which never  
materialized, Steve worked quietly and with little fanfare to help us.  
I always have referred to him as Leoki's "Godfather".

Steve and I stayed in touch after he left Apple, but hadn’t  
communicated for about two years. He will be deeply missed. Some of  
the many people who knew Steve and benefited from him kindness and  
dedication have left comments here:

http://communitynetworking2008.blogspot.com/2008/05/community-networking-champion-steve.html

Keola

========================================================================
Keola Donaghy
Assistant Professor of Hawaiian Studies
Ka Haka 'Ula O Ke'elikolani             keola at leoki.uhh.hawaii.edu
University of Hawai'i at Hilo           http://www2.hawaii.edu/~donaghy/

"Tír gan teanga, tír gan anam."  (Irish Gaelic saying)
A country without its language is a country without its soul.
========================================================================



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From wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU  Sat May 17 04:58:20 2008
From: wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU (William J Poser)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 00:58:20 -0400
Subject: Build a font...
Message-ID: <SAT.17.MAY.2008.005820.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Heather,

I'm not a Mac user either, but there is a free tool called Ukelele
for editing Mac keyboards available from SIL: http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&id=ukelele

Bill


From bischoff.st at GMAIL.COM  Sat May 17 12:03:47 2008
From: bischoff.st at GMAIL.COM (s.t. bischoff)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 08:03:47 -0400
Subject: Build a font...
In-Reply-To: <20080517045820.212B9B2448@lorax.ldc.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <SAT.17.MAY.2008.080347.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Bill,

do you know of a tutorial for creating keyboards with ubuntu?

thanks,
shannon

On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 12:58 AM, William J Poser <wjposer at ldc.upenn.edu>
wrote:

> Heather,
>
> I'm not a Mac user either, but there is a free tool called Ukelele
> for editing Mac keyboards available from SIL:
> http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&id=ukelele
>
> Bill
>
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From dzo at BISHARAT.NET  Sat May 17 13:33:20 2008
From: dzo at BISHARAT.NET (Don Osborn)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 09:33:20 -0400
Subject: build a font for your endangered language...
In-Reply-To: <20080516220413.CBAE6B245E@lorax.ldc.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <SAT.17.MAY.2008.093320.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Just catching up with this thread. As Bill pointed out, it is custom
encoding (not fonts) that is the problem.

The way I explain it to people, there are two issues with extended Latin
characters:
1) are the ones you need encoded in Unicode?
2) are they included in any existing (Unicode) fonts?

The answer to #1 might need a little research in the Unicode tables, and in
the case of less-common character+diacritic combinations, one should look at
whether a combining diacritic combination will resolve the issue (note
Andrew's response). See http://www.unicode.org/charts/ (and check also the
IPA extensions which are rather unhelpfully not also listed on that page -
see http://www.unicode.org/charts/symbols.html#PhoneticSymbols ).

Usually the problem is #2 - the lack of representation of less commonly used
characters in available fonts. 

Also, many less-commonly used characters are not totally unrepresented in
fonts, so on many computers, text made in a custom Unicode font for a
particular orthography might pick up the appropriate characters from other
fonts. Basically the realm of extended characters is not the wilderness it
once was, though there is still work to do.

FYI, the new PanAfrican Localisation Network project (which succeeds the
PanAfrican Localisation project) has a sub-project on open-source extended
Latin fonts - extending existing fonts mainly - for African orthographies. 

On re-encoding, this has been an issue in some countries in Africa too. I
may have mentioned on this list an old French funded project run by RIFAL to
convert text in legacy fonts into Unicode -
http://www.panafril10n.org/PanAfrLoc/RIFAL

Don


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Indigenous Languages and Technology
> [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of William J Poser
> Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 6:04 PM
> To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [ILAT] build a font for your endangered language...
> 
> Keola Donaghy 'uk'uneisguz:
> 
> >Aloha We created and used our custom fonts back in 1994 and are
> >still slowly trying to wean ourselves from them and switch
> >completely to Unicode.
> 
> Actually, I think this confirms what I have been saying: using
> custom fonts is NOT a problem, except in cases like cell phones
> and work machines over which users have no control, where you
> can't install them.
> 
> The problem is not custom fonts, it is custom ENCODINGS.
> 
> Since I think some people may not be clear on the distinction,
> let me explain. Text in a computer really consists of a sequence
> of character codes, which are non-negative integers. The computer
> doesn't really store an "a" - it stores a number which by convention
> is associated with the character "a". Once upon a time, in the days
> of "dumb terminals" and fixed-encoding keyboards, this was all hard-
> wired.
> When you pressed the "a" key on your keyboard it sent a certain small
> integer to your computer, and when the computer sent that same small
> integer to the terminal, the terminal displayed the corresponding
> glyph. Nowadays it is possible to program what codes are generated by
> particular keyboard events and what glyphs are displayed, but
> the basic principle is the same: text consists of a sequence of
> numbers.
> 
> What until recently was by far the most common encoding was ASCII,
> in which "a" has the character code 97. (Character codes are normally
> given in hexadecimal but I'll translate into decimal here.) "b" is
> 98, "c" is 99. "A" is 65, "B" is 66, "C" is 67, etc. So, if you
> have an ASCII-encoded font containing glyphs for the roman alphabet,
> sending the code 98 to the display will select the glyph for "b"
> and display it.
> 
> For other languages there are other encodings. If, for example,
> you use the ARMSCII7 encoding (which you might have done if you
> were an Armenian), if you send the code 98 to the display instead
> of the letter "b" you would get the Armenian capital letter cha.
> 
> Until recently, at best there was a single standard for each language
> and writing system, so that everybody would be on the same wavelength
> within that language and writing system. Fonts for Armenian or
> Russian or Hebrew or whatever would be encoded according to the
> standard for that language. Then things would be simple so long
> as you were using that language, but would get messy if, say,
> you need to use Armenian and English in the same document, or
> wanted to write in Russian on a machine set up for Hebrew.
> Furthermore, in many cases there were multiple encodings for the
> same writing system. Sometimes, every font had its own idiosyncratic
> encoding. (The champions seem to be the Ethiopians, who had over
> 40 known encodings for Amharic.)
> 
> In this situation, where every font potentially uses its own
> encoding, for other people to use your font it isn't sufficient
> for them to install it - their software has to understand its
> encoding.
> 
> With much current software, so long as your font uses a well-known
> encoding, the software can use it because it contains or knows how
> to look up information about the encoding. Your browser, for example,
> almost certainly (a) attempts to detect the encoding of the web page
> it displays and (b) allows you to tell it what encoding to use (in case
> it fails to guess correctly - this happens with some frequency, in part
> because many web pages lie about their encoding and the browser accepts
> the lie). But if you have a truly idiosyncratic encoding in your font,
> software may not know what to do with it.
> 
> What Unicode does is unify all writing systems into a single encoding.
> In Unicode "b" and Armenian capital cha do not compete for the
> same codepoint. Instead, "b" is 98 as in ASCII and Armenian capital
> cha is 1353. With everything included in a single encoding, you can
> mix writing systems easiy within a single document and use one writing
> system on a system set up for another.
> 
> So, if you create your own font but use Unicode as the encoding,
> so long as people are able to install your font they should have no
> problem using it. What you should not do is create fonts that use
> your own idiosyncratic encoding.
> 
> One of the uses of FontForge is in fact reencoding an existing font.
> You can see an example of this at:
> http://billposer.org/Linguistics/Computation/Reencoding/HowTo.html
> The examples used in this tutorial are based on a real task.
> I wanted to be able to use Linear B and at the time could only
> find a font that used an idiosyncratic encoding. So I took that
> font and changed the encoding to Unicode.
> 
> Bill


From rzs at WILDBLUE.NET  Sat May 17 16:07:04 2008
From: rzs at WILDBLUE.NET (Richard Smith)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 09:07:04 -0700
Subject: Build a font...
In-Reply-To: <20080517045820.212B9B2448@lorax.ldc.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <SAT.17.MAY.2008.090704.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Heather ,

I'm no computer whiz either...
I use Ukelele and find it fairly straight forward
you might install it and play around with it.
With it you can actually create endless keyboard layouts
(for typing varied spellings of your language)

With Ukelele i can drag  a symbol from the "character palette"  and drop
them onto a key on the nice big picture of  a "keyboard"

Sometimes i forget which key i dropped a certain symbol on...
"dang it ,where did i put that nasalized o?"
Ukelele can open a miniaturized keyboard picture on the desktop that
lights up every key punched and shows me where that illusive symbol is
hiding.  "duuhh...oh yeah its over the capitol O key..."

Twice i created keyboards where i forgot to install some obscure symbol.
"dang it ,I forgot to install a lower case u !"
Ok i admit one frustration with this program
With Ukelele I find it difficult to ADD a symbol i forgot...somehow.

I usually end up creating a whole new keyboard
but oh well,  it is simple enough to do.

-Richard




On 5/16/08 9:58 PM, "William J Poser" <wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU> wrote:

> Heather,
> 
> I'm not a Mac user either, but there is a free tool called Ukelele
> for editing Mac keyboards available from SIL:
> http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&id=ukelele
> 
> Bill


From hsouter at GMAIL.COM  Sat May 17 15:01:00 2008
From: hsouter at GMAIL.COM (Heather Souter)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 10:01:00 -0500
Subject: Build a font...
In-Reply-To: <C45450B8.4847%rzs@wildblue.net>
Message-ID: <SAT.17.MAY.2008.100100.0500.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Taanshi, Richard,

Kihchi-maarsii pur tii parol!  Thanks for your words (advice)!

I will give it a try and tell you how I made out....

Eekoshi pitamaa.
Heather


> ou might install it and play around with it.
> With it you can actually create endless keyboard layouts
> (for typing varied spellings of your language)
>
> With Ukelele i can drag  a symbol from the "character palette"  and drop
> them onto a key on the nice big picture of  a "keyboard"
>
> Sometimes i forget which key i dropped a certain symbol on...
> "dang it ,where did i put that nasalized o?"
> Ukelele can open a miniaturized keyboard picture on the desktop that
> lights up every key punched and shows me where that illusive symbol is
> hiding.  "duuhh...oh yeah its over the capitol O key..."
>
> Twice i created keyboards where i forgot to install some obscure symbol.
> "dang it ,I forgot to install a lower case u !"
> Ok i admit one frustration with this program
> With Ukelele I find it difficult to ADD a symbol i forgot...somehow.
>
> I usually end up creating a whole new keyboard
> but oh well,  it is simple enough to do.
>
> -Richard
>
>
>
>
> On 5/16/08 9:58 PM, "William J Poser" <wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU> wrote:
>
> > Heather,
> >
> > I'm not a Mac user either, but there is a free tool called Ukelele
> > for editing Mac keyboards available from SIL:
> > http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&id=ukelele
> >
> > Bill
>
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From wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU  Sat May 17 17:50:24 2008
From: wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU (William J Poser)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 13:50:24 -0400
Subject: Build a font...
In-Reply-To: <1c1f75a20805170503r6327b813wc2dd1f6b62c41297@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SAT.17.MAY.2008.135024.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Shannon,

Yes, here's a tutorial on changing keyboard layouts in Ubuntu:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=188761&highlight=layout
Although on an Ubuntu forum, this really deals with changing
X11 keyboard layouts, so it should be applicable to most *nix
systems.

Bill


From rtroike at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Sat May 17 22:14:04 2008
From: rtroike at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (Rudy Troike)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 15:14:04 -0700
Subject: build a font for your endangered language...
Message-ID: <SAT.17.MAY.2008.151404.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Bill,

   Just as an observation, a lot of people paste Word documents (memos,
announcements, etc.) into our university Webmail (which I'm using now), and
even something as simple as double quotes (") show up on the screen as
question marks (?). (I always preferred WordPerfect 5.1, but gave it up for
WP 11, and even had to abandon that because people couldn't read my
attachments, as they wouldn't convert to Word for some reason). So I am
wondering how well special characters, even ones chosen from the Word
character options, would transmit on an institutional Webmail application
(I haven't tried this, and should, just to find out).

   [As a different matter, our Webmail allows for different languages, but
for English uses Charset Western ISO-8859-1, with -15 as an option, but I
don't know whether different character sets can be mixed in the same
document such as the one I'm composing now. I've tried, and haven't been
able to figure out how to put accents on vowels, though I've seen them come
through in Linguist List annoucements. Maybe Phil Cash Cash has the answer
to this, since he is using the same Webmail.]

   A second problem comes in printing. I can compose a document, such as
a class handout, using the special Word characters, but my fairly up to date
HP LaserJet 4050 leaves blanks (or less often prints other characters) where
the desired character appears fine onscreen. So I have to wind up going back
and writing these in by hand. It's messy and maddening. I can send the Word
documents to others as attachments, but I would guess that many of them
would have the same problem with not seeing the characters printed out, so
they wouldn't be able to understand what I was writing about.

   I did once try downloading some of the SIL fonts in order to be able to
use phonetic symbols, but I could never get them to show up onscreen within
a Word document, or if I did (it's been several years now), they would not
print on my old HP printer (using Windows 98).

   Any suggestions on these problems would be appreciated.

   Rudy


From wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU  Sat May 17 23:07:34 2008
From: wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU (William J Poser)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 19:07:34 -0400
Subject: build a font for your endangered language...
In-Reply-To: <20080517151404.a48gzyo848okg080@www.email.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <SAT.17.MAY.2008.190734.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Rudy,

I'm not sufficiently familiar with the specific applications you
use to be able to give detailed advice. I'm a Unix person and don't
know MS Windows very well (except for the xerox finite state transducer
tools, I have had no unfree software on my machines in nearly four years).
However, with regard to email, the problem may have to do with the nature
of the email system itself.

The email system, that is, the system by which machines move mail
around, predates the web, fancy wordprocessors, and so on. It goes
WAY back, and so at its core supports only 7-bit ASCII. To this day,
if you put anything in which the high bit of a byte might be set
into an email message, it may not make it to its destination.

The way around this is to re-encode the text using only safe
characters and decode it back to its real encoding at the other end.
The most common method for doing this nowadays is to use base64
encoding. In this method, each group of three bytes is treated as
a 24-bit string and divided up into four 6-bit chunks. Each of these
chunks is used as an index into the 64-character string:

ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz0123456789+/

Since 2^6 = 64, each 6-bit chunk corresponds uniquely to a 
character.

So, three bytes that may take on any value are transformed into
four nice safe ASCII characters. 

When you send an image or audio file or video or MS word document
as an attachment, it is base64-encoded. If you use an email
interface that knows to do so, if you enter non-ASCII text, it will
notice it and base64 encode it.

So, one class of problems arises when people get non-ASCII text
into an email message. It may be garbled in passing through the
mail system, or it may not be handled correctly by your email
reader, which may assume that it is getting plain ASCII unless
it is notified that it is getting base64 encoded text.

Like any piece of text, email may be in a variety of encodings.
For everything to work properly, the encoding should be specified
in the mail header. That way, at the other end, the reader's mail
reading software can display it or convert to something it knows
how to display, or failing that, a human being can convert it
manually. Note that encoding in this sense is distinct from encodings
like base64 that are used to get everything into ascii. If, for
example, your original text is in, say, tis620, the Thai national
standard, it isn't safe to send it as is since this encoding
uses all eight bits. So your Thai text will have to be base64-encoded.
The base64-encoded text is then decoded back to tis620 at the other end.

So, another type of problem arises if your email system doesn't
correctly identify the character encoding in the header. (This
also happens with web pages. There is an HTML attribute that
identifies the encoding, but it is often missing or incorrect.)

Mixing encodings is another way to create problems. When you
insert text into a buffer, you are just inserting some bytes.
How they will be interpreted down the line depends on the encoding
that the downstream software thinks the text is in, and only one
encoding is associated with a piece of plain text. If you have
bits of text in different encodings and want to combine them into
a single piece of text, you need to convert them all to a single
encoding before combining them. In general the only way to do
that will be to convert to Unicode. (If you use the import text
function in a wordprocessor, the way it imports text in various
encodings is that it converts it in passing from whatever encoding
it is in to the word processor's internal encoding, which is
usually Unicode these days.)

If your printer does not display some characters that is probably
because it doesn't have the right fonts. If you can see them in MS
Word, you must have the right fonts on your system, but for some
reason the printer doesn't know about them. You need to consult
an MS Windows expert to find out what to do about this. With
regard to sending MS Word files to others, my understanding isthat
MS Word does not by default include the necessary fonts when it
saves a file, so if you are using anything non-standard, the
recipient may see gaps in place of the "exotic" characters. If
the recipient only needs to read the document, not to edit it,
exporting as PDF will generally solve this problem. I think that
I've heard that there is a way to force MS Word to include the
fonts in the document but I don't know  how.

The SIL fonts work just fine for me on my GNU/Linux systems, and
I hear that they work fine on MS Windows (which is, after all,
SIL's main target), so I don't know why they don't work for you.

Bill


From lang.support at GMAIL.COM  Sat May 17 23:22:18 2008
From: lang.support at GMAIL.COM (Andrew Cunningham)
Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 09:22:18 +1000
Subject: build a font for your endangered language...
In-Reply-To: <20080517151404.a48gzyo848okg080@www.email.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <SUN.18.MAY.2008.092218.1000.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

The issue with printing may be related to the fact that some printers
used soft-fonts installed on the printer, if you look at the printer
settings in control panel, there may be options to specify if the
fonts is sent to the printer or the printer uses its own internal
fonts in memory.

For web mail, it is not advisable to ever mix encodings. If the
diacritics exist in iso-8859-1 or iso-8859-15, then easiest way is to
type them directly form the keyboard.

Windows98 is severely unicode challenged. But you can work with
Unicode and the SIL fonts just as long as you don't need complex
script behaviour, i.e. combining diacritics, glyph substitution, etc.


Andrew

2008/5/18 Rudy Troike <rtroike at email.arizona.edu>:
> Bill,
>
>   Just as an observation, a lot of people paste Word documents (memos,
> announcements, etc.) into our university Webmail (which I'm using now), and
> even something as simple as double quotes (") show up on the screen as
> question marks (?). (I always preferred WordPerfect 5.1, but gave it up for
> WP 11, and even had to abandon that because people couldn't read my
> attachments, as they wouldn't convert to Word for some reason). So I am
> wondering how well special characters, even ones chosen from the Word
> character options, would transmit on an institutional Webmail application
> (I haven't tried this, and should, just to find out).
>
>   [As a different matter, our Webmail allows for different languages, but
> for English uses Charset Western ISO-8859-1, with -15 as an option, but I
> don't know whether different character sets can be mixed in the same
> document such as the one I'm composing now. I've tried, and haven't been
> able to figure out how to put accents on vowels, though I've seen them come
> through in Linguist List annoucements. Maybe Phil Cash Cash has the answer
> to this, since he is using the same Webmail.]
>
>   A second problem comes in printing. I can compose a document, such as
> a class handout, using the special Word characters, but my fairly up to date
> HP LaserJet 4050 leaves blanks (or less often prints other characters) where
> the desired character appears fine onscreen. So I have to wind up going back
> and writing these in by hand. It's messy and maddening. I can send the Word
> documents to others as attachments, but I would guess that many of them
> would have the same problem with not seeing the characters printed out, so
> they wouldn't be able to understand what I was writing about.
>
>   I did once try downloading some of the SIL fonts in order to be able to
> use phonetic symbols, but I could never get them to show up onscreen within
> a Word document, or if I did (it's been several years now), they would not
> print on my old HP printer (using Windows 98).
>
>   Any suggestions on these problems would be appreciated.
>
>   Rudy
>



-- 
Andrew Cunningham
Vicnet Research and Development Coordinator
State Library of Victoria
Australia

andrewc at vicnet.net.au
lang.support at gmail.com


From lang.support at GMAIL.COM  Sat May 17 23:27:20 2008
From: lang.support at GMAIL.COM (Andrew Cunningham)
Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 09:27:20 +1000
Subject: build a font for your endangered language...
In-Reply-To: <000001c8b822$92fc5b70$b8f51250$@net>
Message-ID: <SUN.18.MAY.2008.092720.1000.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Hi Don

I'd add a third point to your list below:

3) do you use a glyph variation for an existing Unicode character.

I remember at least one case where we had to modify a font so that for
one character, an alternative glyph for the character became the
default glyph for the character, and the glyphs
for two other characters were modified to provide culturally
acceptable glyphs for the font.

Andrew

2008/5/17 Don Osborn <dzo at bisharat.net>:
> Just catching up with this thread. As Bill pointed out, it is custom
> encoding (not fonts) that is the problem.
>
> The way I explain it to people, there are two issues with extended Latin
> characters:
> 1) are the ones you need encoded in Unicode?
> 2) are they included in any existing (Unicode) fonts?
>



-- 
Andrew Cunningham
Vicnet Research and Development Coordinator
State Library of Victoria
Australia

andrewc at vicnet.net.au
lang.support at gmail.com


From lang.support at GMAIL.COM  Sat May 17 23:35:02 2008
From: lang.support at GMAIL.COM (Andrew Cunningham)
Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 09:35:02 +1000
Subject: build a font for your endangered language...
In-Reply-To: <6d8c8c410805162000j3d901805qb07b76c757d9d7c5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SUN.18.MAY.2008.093502.1000.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

You can use either Microsoft Keyboard Layout Creator (MSKLC) or
Tavultesoft Keyman Developer to create an appropriate keyboard layout.
Depending on how you design a keyboard, you can create a single key to
output one or more Unicode characters.

Which tool you choose will depend on your budget and on the complexity
of the keyboard,
and your budget.
Heather,

Sounds like you just need something fairly simple and implemented on a
small scale, so the free MSKLC should be sufficient. Only limitation
is you have to tie the new keyboard to an existing windows input
locale. Ok on your own computers, but a practice i avoid like the
plague in the public settings we support.

Andrew

2008/5/17 Heather Souter <hsouter at gmail.com>:
> Kihchi-maarsii pur toñ repoñs, Bill!  Thanks for your response, Bill!
>
> So, I guess that our present way of using <ñ> really is still perhaps the
> best (read easiest) compromise for our orthographic purposes?  Or, is it
> simply a matter of educating myself (and other potential users of the
> orthography) on the process (key strokes necessary) to produce the character
> when writing?  Is there a simple way to program a key to produce the
> character when hit once (using shift or control or whatever)?  Or, will it
> always take a couple of key strokes?
>
> Eekoshi kihtwaam.
> Heather
>
> On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 9:48 PM, William J Poser <wjposer at ldc.upenn.edu>
> wrote:
>>
>> Heather,
>>
>> Unicode does not encode n with a slash through it as a single codepoint,
>> but it does have slash as a combining character. In fact, it has two:
>> U+0337 COMBINING SHORT SOLIDUS OVERLAY
>> U+0338 COMBINING LONG SOLIDUS OVERLAY
>> (The forward slash is called "solidus" in Unicode-speak.)
>>
>> So, you can get a lower-case n overlaid by a long slash by entering
>> first the n and then U+0338. They are two separate codepoints but will
>> be rendered by Unicode-aware software as the single character you want.
>>
>> Because this is treated as a sequence of two "characters" in Unicode,
>> you may have to do something special to get your sort order the
>> way you want it. Such things are a little easier if you can get what you
>> want as a single codepoint, but the Unicode Consortium is reluctant
>> to add single codepoints for things that can be composed from existing
>> combining characters.
>>
>> Bill
>
>



-- 
Andrew Cunningham
Vicnet Research and Development Coordinator
State Library of Victoria
Australia

andrewc at vicnet.net.au
lang.support at gmail.com


From lang.support at GMAIL.COM  Sat May 17 23:45:40 2008
From: lang.support at GMAIL.COM (Andrew Cunningham)
Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 09:45:40 +1000
Subject: Build a font...
In-Reply-To: <1c1f75a20805170503r6327b813wc2dd1f6b62c41297@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SUN.18.MAY.2008.094540.1000.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Hi Shannon,

It depends on what input system you are using, its possible to create
a simplistic xkb keyboard layout.

>From memory Ubuntu has SCIM enabled by default, so documentation on
creating a keyboard layout using SCIM tables should be available on
the SCIM website.

Alternatively, its possible to install the KMFL module for SCIM, which
would allow you to use the source files for Tavultesoft Keyman on
Linux.

There are other input systems as well, but SCIM and xkb seem to be the
most common on Ubuntu

I've never tried IIIMF on Ubuntu, so couldn't really comment on it.

Andrew

2008/5/17 s.t. bischoff <bischoff.st at gmail.com>:
> Bill,
>
> do you know of a tutorial for creating keyboards with ubuntu?
>
> thanks,
> shannon
>
> On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 12:58 AM, William J Poser <wjposer at ldc.upenn.edu>
> wrote:
>>
>> Heather,
>>
>> I'm not a Mac user either, but there is a free tool called Ukelele
>> for editing Mac keyboards available from SIL:
>> http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&id=ukelele
>>
>> Bill
>
>



-- 
Andrew Cunningham
Vicnet Research and Development Coordinator
State Library of Victoria
Australia

andrewc at vicnet.net.au
lang.support at gmail.com


From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Mon May 19 17:05:58 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 10:05:58 -0700
Subject: Tulalip ancestors' language alive in spirit (fwd link)
Message-ID: <MON.19.MAY.2008.100558.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

HearladNet - Everett WA
Published: Saturday, May 17, 2008

Tulalip ancestors' language alive in spirit

A Mass in the Tulalip Tribes' ancient language is meant to celebrate the
blending of culture and faith.

By Krista J. Kapralos, Herald Writer

TULALIP -- The whoosh sound of Lushootseed filled the sanctuary at St. Anne's
Mission on the Tulalip Indian Reservation as Mass was celebrated Sunday, in
part, in the ancient language of Coast Salish American Indian tribes.

Access full article below:
http://heraldnet.com/article/20080517/NEWS01/643248491


From neskiem at GMAIL.COM  Mon May 19 17:45:10 2008
From: neskiem at GMAIL.COM (Neskie Manuel)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 14:45:10 -0300
Subject: Build a font...
In-Reply-To: <1c1f75a20805170503r6327b813wc2dd1f6b62c41297@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <MON.19.MAY.2008.144510.0300.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Weytk Shannon,

Here is another tutorial for creating a simple xkb keyboard:

  http://hektor.umcs.lublin.pl/~mikosmul/computing/articles/custom-keyboard-layouts-xkb.html

I think for most roman orthographies an xkb layout is sufficient.  I
don't know about writing in Syllabics or Cherokee script.   Currently
there is a keyboard layout for Secwepemctsín, and Inuktitut.

The package in Debian/Ubuntu that contains all of the xkb layouts is: xkb-data.

I've been working on creating keyboard layouts for the xkb-data
package for the following languages:

  http://www.languagegeek.com/alllangs/listoflangs.html

I have a Ktunaxa and SENȻOŦEN keyboard made, eventually they will be
available in Debian/Ubuntu.  If you've created a new keyboard layout
that you want submitted upstream you submit it according these rules:

  http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/XKeyboardConfig/Rules

What keyboard layout do you want made? If you don't mind me asking.

Yeri Tsucws,
Neskie

On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 9:03 AM, s.t. bischoff <bischoff.st at gmail.com> wrote:
> Bill,
>
> do you know of a tutorial for creating keyboards with ubuntu?
>
> thanks,
> shannon
>
> On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 12:58 AM, William J Poser <wjposer at ldc.upenn.edu>
> wrote:
>>
>> Heather,
>>
>> I'm not a Mac user either, but there is a free tool called Ukelele
>> for editing Mac keyboards available from SIL:
>> http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&id=ukelele
>>
>> Bill


From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Tue May 20 17:57:57 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 10:57:57 -0700
Subject: Indian educator lauded (fwd link)
Message-ID: <TUE.20.MAY.2008.105757.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Indian educator lauded

Monday, May 19, 2008 5:41 PM MDT
New Mexico

GRANTS - Gloria Hale, Director of Indian Education for the Grants/Cibola County
School District, has been honored as 2008 New Mexico Indian Educator of the
Year.

The state's Public Education Department bestowed the award.

During her four years with the district, Hale has initiated the K-6 Navajo oral
language program at two elementary schools, obtained continued funding for the
K-12 Acoma Keresan language program at Laguna-Acoma High School and plans to
work with the Pueblo of Laguna to introduce the Laguna Keresan language
program.

Access full article below:
http://www.cibolabeacon.com/articles/2008/05/19/news/news2.txt


From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Wed May 21 16:32:56 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 09:32:56 -0700
Subject: Putting the 'h' back in Wanganui (fwd link)
Message-ID: <WED.21.MAY.2008.093256.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Putting the 'h' back in Wanganui

New Zealand
The Dominion Post | Wednesday, 21 May 2008

Governing bodies have a responsibility to protect and respect our indigenous
language, and that includes correct spelling, writes Rawiri Taonui.

A battle looms between "Wanganui" rednecks versus "Whanganui" Maori and their
enlightened Pakeha cohorts as iwi prepare for another tilt at getting the "h"
put back into "Wanganui".

The spelling issue was raised first before the Waitangi Tribunal and then in an
unsuccessful application to the Human Rights Commission. The name of the river
was corrected in 1991, but not that of the city. A new application is being
prepared for the National Geographic Board.

Te Runanga o Tupoho say "Whanganui" (meaning great harbour or expanse of water)
is important because it was named by their ancestor, Hau of the Aotea waka,
more than 600 years ago, and that "Wanganui" is a meaningless corruption.

Access full article below:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/4555470a1861.html


From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Wed May 21 16:46:26 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 09:46:26 -0700
Subject: 1st aboriginal culture revival zone to be set up in Taiwan (fwd
 link)
Message-ID: <WED.21.MAY.2008.094626.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Radio Taiwan International
05/18/2008

1st aboriginal culture revival zone to be set up in Taiwan

An aboriginal Thao culture revival zone will be set up in central Taiwan. The
revival zone will be the first of its kind in the country.

Access full article below:
http://english.rti.org.tw/Content/GetSingleNews.aspx?ContentID=58095


From wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU  Thu May 22 03:18:28 2008
From: wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU (William J Poser)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 23:18:28 -0400
Subject: Putting the 'h' back in Wanganui (fwd link)
In-Reply-To: <20080521093256.hkzcwkc08k8ck0ok@www.email.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.21.MAY.2008.231828.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

For those with no knowledge of Maori, the difference between <wh> and <w>
in "Wanganui" versus "Whanganui" is not a mere matter of spelling
as the Mayor seems to think. <w> represents the same sound as in English,
while <wh> represents a voiceless bilabial fricative, similar to English
/f/ but made with both lips rather than the lower lip and upper teeth.

Bill


From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Fri May 23 06:15:35 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 23:15:35 -0700
Subject: Tribes strive to save native tongues (fwd)
Message-ID: <THU.22.MAY.2008.231535.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Tribes strive to save native tongues
In the Pacific Northwest, some 40 indigenous languages are at risk of
disappearing within a decade.

By Aaron Clark | Contributor to The Christian Science Monitor
from the May 23, 2008 edition

Warm Springs, Ore. - Grass-roots efforts to preserve and teach youngsters native
languages are intensifying around the Pacific Northwest and British Columbia as
about 40 indigenous tongues are in danger of disappearing within the next
decade.

Native leaders are compiling dictionaries, drafting lesson plans, and scrambling
to save what scraps of language they can before the last of the fluent elders
dies. In the case of Kiksht, a language spoken for centuries along Oregon's
Columbia River, there are two remaining speakers and neither can remember the
words for "yawn" or "brown."

Access full article link below:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0523/p02s01-usgn.html


From jcrippen at GMAIL.COM  Fri May 23 20:47:32 2008
From: jcrippen at GMAIL.COM (James Crippen)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 10:47:32 -1000
Subject: Putting the 'h' back in Wanganui (fwd link)
In-Reply-To: <20080522031828.E99F9B242A@lorax.ldc.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <FRI.23.MAY.2008.104732.1000.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 5:18 PM, William J Poser <wjposer at ldc.upenn.edu> wrote:
> For those with no knowledge of Maori, the difference between <wh> and <w>
> in "Wanganui" versus "Whanganui" is not a mere matter of spelling
> as the Mayor seems to think. <w> represents the same sound as in English,
> while <wh> represents a voiceless bilabial fricative, similar to English
> /f/ but made with both lips rather than the lower lip and upper teeth.

Also the same sound as in Japanese /f/ before /u/, such as the word "futon".

Can we presume that the Mayor lacks the w/wh distinction in his
English dialect? That may be why he feels it's a mere spelling
problem, since he doesn't hear the difference between "which" and
"witch". As a speaker of English retaining the w/wh distinction, the
difference in spelling would seem to be fairly important, even if I
weren't linguistically inclined.

BTW, the Hawaiian equivalent of the name would be "Hananui", with
wh->h and ng->n, through Proto-Eastern-Polynesian.

James


From johnacko at BIGPOND.COM  Sat May 24 04:58:14 2008
From: johnacko at BIGPOND.COM (John Atkinson)
Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 14:58:14 +1000
Subject: Putting the 'h' back in Wanganui (fwd link)
In-Reply-To: <caf8a68a0805231347m7112b5b1o718a6ddaa0c10f6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SAT.24.MAY.2008.145814.1000.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

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From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Tue May 27 15:50:47 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 08:50:47 -0700
Subject: Mohawk language goes country (fwd link)
Message-ID: <TUE.27.MAY.2008.085047.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Mohawk language goes country

Ontario, CA
Posted By Michael Peeling

The Mohawk language is making its mark on country music.

Margaret Peters, a language curriculum specialist with the Ahkwesahsne Mohawk
Board of Education, has taken her efforts to keep the Mohawk language alive to
another level by directing her students through the process of creating a music
video.

The choice of song, "Jackson" by Johnny and June Carter-Cash, was inspired by
Teddy Peters', Margaret's husband, and his hobby of translating country songs
into Mohawk.

Access full article below:
http://www.standard-freeholder.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1045097


From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Tue May 27 17:23:13 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 10:23:13 -0700
Subject: Student learns her roots (fwd link)
Message-ID: <TUE.27.MAY.2008.102313.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Student learns her roots
Highland High senior is studying Navajo at SLCC and on a state-funded Web site

By Ben Fulton
The Salt Lake Tribune
Article Last Updated: 05/27/2008 12:18:50 AM MDT

Growing up on the Navajo Nation reservation in Kayenta, Ariz., Charity
Yellowhair-Gilbert was embarrassed and frustrated: She understood the Navajo
language as she listened to her mother and grandmother talk, but couldn't speak
it herself.

Access full article below:
http://www.sltrib.com/Education/ci_9388891


From wiigwaas at MSN.COM  Tue May 27 17:57:01 2008
From: wiigwaas at MSN.COM (Earl Otchingwanigan)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 12:57:01 -0500
Subject: Mohawk language goes country (fwd link)
Message-ID: <TUE.27.MAY.2008.125701.0500.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Appreciate the good post ----a great and exciting idea as it may help inspire young people to further invest interest in their language using music whether traditional or via loan music and non-traditional instruments, besides it's just plain fun stuff to do ---- but it should be noted though, various native people have been doing this very same thing for sometime, including myself ---- I have for some 25 or 30 years now, been using my native language in jazz and pop genre performing with a non-traditional musical instrument.  Cheers, Earl Otchingwanigan
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: phil cash cash<mailto:cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU> 
  To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU<mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU> 
  Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 10:50 AM
  Subject: [ILAT] Mohawk language goes country (fwd link)


  Mohawk language goes country

  Ontario, CA
  Posted By Michael Peeling

  The Mohawk language is making its mark on country music.

  Margaret Peters, a language curriculum specialist with the Ahkwesahsne Mohawk
  Board of Education, has taken her efforts to keep the Mohawk language alive to
  another level by directing her students through the process of creating a music
  video.

  The choice of song, "Jackson" by Johnny and June Carter-Cash, was inspired by
  Teddy Peters', Margaret's husband, and his hobby of translating country songs
  into Mohawk.

  Access full article below:
  http://www.standard-freeholder.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1045097<http://www.standard-freeholder.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1045097>
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From rzs at WILDBLUE.NET  Tue May 27 20:24:25 2008
From: rzs at WILDBLUE.NET (Richard Smith)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 13:24:25 -0700
Subject: Mohawk language goes country (fwd link)
In-Reply-To: <BAY111-DAV952BF4EEE61E44A9C9A5AD1BD0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <TUE.27.MAY.2008.132425.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

tižamęh Earl

i agree totally 
"Kashtin" is one of my favorite groups,(not sure they are still
together,though.)
 blending contemporary instruments/universal themes yet expressed in
indigenous language.

Using music to teach kids language just can't be underemphasized either.
I have a bag full of fun and silly songs I've composed in the Wyandot
language
that i use for teaching pronunciation, grammar, numbers, animals, etc...
all original tunes but sung with traditional waterdrum and handshakers.

Songs enter and somehow bi-pass alot of "dangerous intersections" of the
mind
Wish more teachers understood this...it would have helped me alot as a youth

-Richard 
Wyandotte, Oklahoma



On 5/27/08 10:57 AM, "Earl Otchingwanigan" <wiigwaas at MSN.COM> wrote:

> Appreciate the good post ----a great and exciting idea as it may help inspire
> young people to further invest interest in their language using music whether
> traditional or via loan music and non-traditional instruments, besides it's
> just plain fun stuff to do ---- but it should be noted though, various native
> people have been doing this very same thing for sometime, including myself
> ---- I have for some 25 or 30 years now, been using my native language in jazz
> and pop genre performing with a non-traditional musical instrument.  Cheers,
> Earl Otchingwanigan
>>  
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>  
>> From: phil cash cash <mailto:cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU>
>>  
>> To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
>>  
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 10:50 AM
>>  
>> Subject: [ILAT] Mohawk language goes  country (fwd link)
>>  
>> 
>> Mohawk language goes country
>> 
>> Ontario, CA
>> Posted By  Michael Peeling
>> 
>> The Mohawk language is making its mark on country  music.
>> 
>> Margaret Peters, a language curriculum specialist with the  Ahkwesahsne
>> Mohawk
>> Board of Education, has taken her efforts to keep the  Mohawk language alive
>> to
>> another level by directing her students through  the process of creating a
>> music
>> video.
>> 
>> The choice of song, "Jackson"  by Johnny and June Carter-Cash, was inspired
>> by
>> Teddy Peters', Margaret's  husband, and his hobby of translating country
>> songs
>> into  Mohawk.
>> 
>> Access full article below:
>> http://www.standard-freeholder.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1045097
> 


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From wiigwaas at MSN.COM  Tue May 27 19:16:29 2008
From: wiigwaas at MSN.COM (Earl Otchingwanigan)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 14:16:29 -0500
Subject: Mohawk language goes country (fwd link)
Message-ID: <TUE.27.MAY.2008.141629.0500.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Re: [ILAT] Mohawk language goes country (fwd link)Greetings Richard:  Appreciate your confirming comments and extending the point as to what others have contributed to the music side of learning and revitalizing/retaining language ---- I'm sure there are many other unsung [pardon the pun], native peoples out there contributing to this almost under-rated way of learning; kudos to them all.  Cheers, Earl Otchingwanigan 
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Richard Smith<mailto:rzs at WILDBLUE.NET> 
  To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU<mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU> 
  Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 3:24 PM
  Subject: Re: [ILAT] Mohawk language goes country (fwd link)


  tižamęh Earl

  i agree totally 
  "Kashtin" is one of my favorite groups,(not sure they are still together,though.)
   blending contemporary instruments/universal themes yet expressed in indigenous language.

  Using music to teach kids language just can't be underemphasized either.
  I have a bag full of fun and silly songs I've composed in the Wyandot language
  that i use for teaching pronunciation, grammar, numbers, animals, etc...
  all original tunes but sung with traditional waterdrum and handshakers.

  Songs enter and somehow bi-pass alot of "dangerous intersections" of the mind
  Wish more teachers understood this...it would have helped me alot as a youth

  -Richard 
  Wyandotte, Oklahoma



  On 5/27/08 10:57 AM, "Earl Otchingwanigan" <wiigwaas at MSN.COM> wrote:


    Appreciate the good post ----a great and exciting idea as it may help inspire young people to further invest interest in their language using music whether traditional or via loan music and non-traditional instruments, besides it's just plain fun stuff to do ---- but it should be noted though, various native people have been doing this very same thing for sometime, including myself ---- I have for some 25 or 30 years now, been using my native language in jazz and pop genre performing with a non-traditional musical instrument.  Cheers, Earl Otchingwanigan


      ----- Original Message ----- 
       
      From: phil cash cash <mailto:cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU><mailto:cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU>  
       
      To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU 
       
      Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 10:50 AM
       
      Subject: [ILAT] Mohawk language goes  country (fwd link)
       

      Mohawk language goes country

      Ontario, CA
      Posted By  Michael Peeling

      The Mohawk language is making its mark on country  music.

      Margaret Peters, a language curriculum specialist with the  Ahkwesahsne Mohawk
      Board of Education, has taken her efforts to keep the  Mohawk language alive to
      another level by directing her students through  the process of creating a music
      video.

      The choice of song, "Jackson"  by Johnny and June Carter-Cash, was inspired by
      Teddy Peters', Margaret's  husband, and his hobby of translating country songs
      into  Mohawk.

      Access full article below:
      http://www.standard-freeholder.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1045097<http://www.standard-freeholder.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1045097>




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From hsouter at GMAIL.COM  Tue May 27 20:13:13 2008
From: hsouter at GMAIL.COM (Heather Souter)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 15:13:13 -0500
Subject: Mohawk language goes country (fwd link)
In-Reply-To: <BAY111-DAV25DBA3876F3C20F812591D1BD0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <TUE.27.MAY.2008.151313.0500.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Taanshi, Earl and Richard,

I am excited to hear how you are using music to express and teach your
languages!  I have a friend speaks Cree and teaches the language--Laura
Burnof.  She sings and has made a recording of songs for children in Cree.

Also, since you have heard of Kashtin, I wonder if you have heard of Carl
Quinn?  He is a Cree man from the Saddle Lake Reserve in Alberta Canada.
Quite an artist and visionary!  Not everyone may like his music, but he
sings in Cree and is a talented musician.  Take a listen and read more about
him at
http://cdbaby.com/cd/carlquinn

By the way, I am teaching myself how to play guitar (country?!) and am
starting to sing in Michif, my langauge.  You guys are an inspiration to me!

Eekoshi pitamaa. That's all for now!
Heather

2008/5/27 Earl Otchingwanigan <wiigwaas at msn.com>:

>  Greetings Richard:  Appreciate your confirming comments and extending the
> point as to what others have contributed to the music side of learning and
> revitalizing/retaining language ---- I'm sure there are many other
> unsung [pardon the pun], native peoples out there contributing to this
> almost under-rated way of learning; kudos to them all.  Cheers, Earl
> Otchingwanigan
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Richard Smith <rzs at WILDBLUE.NET>
> *To:* ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 27, 2008 3:24 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [ILAT] Mohawk language goes country (fwd link)
>
> tižamęh Earl
>
> i agree totally
> "Kashtin" is one of my favorite groups,(not sure they are still
> together,though.)
>  blending contemporary instruments/universal themes yet expressed in
> indigenous language.
>
> Using music to teach kids language just can't be underemphasized either.
> I have a bag full of fun and silly songs I've composed in the Wyandot
> language
> that i use for teaching pronunciation, grammar, numbers, animals, etc...
> all original tunes but sung with traditional waterdrum and handshakers.
>
> Songs enter and somehow bi-pass alot of "dangerous intersections" of the
> mind
> Wish more teachers understood this...it would have helped me alot as a
> youth
>
> -Richard
> Wyandotte, Oklahoma
>
>
>
> On 5/27/08 10:57 AM, "Earl Otchingwanigan" <wiigwaas at MSN.COM> wrote:
>
> Appreciate the good post ----a great and exciting idea as it may help
> inspire young people to further invest interest in their language using
> music whether traditional or via *loan music *and *non-traditional
> instruments, *besides it's just plain fun stuff to do ---- but it should
> be noted though, various native people have been doing this very same thing
> for sometime, including myself ---- I have for some 25 or 30 years now, been
> using my native language in jazz and pop genre performing with a
> non-traditional musical instrument.  Cheers, Earl Otchingwanigan
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* phil cash cash <mailto:cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU><cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU>
>
> *To:* ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 27, 2008 10:50 AM
>
> *Subject:* [ILAT] Mohawk language goes  country (fwd link)
>
>
> Mohawk language goes country
>
> Ontario, CA
> Posted By  Michael Peeling
>
> The Mohawk language is making its mark on country  music.
>
> Margaret Peters, a language curriculum specialist with the  Ahkwesahsne
> Mohawk
> Board of Education, has taken her efforts to keep the  Mohawk language
> alive to
> another level by directing her students through  the process of creating a
> music
> video.
>
> The choice of song, "Jackson"  by Johnny and June Carter-Cash, was inspired
> by
> Teddy Peters', Margaret's  husband, and his hobby of translating country
> songs
> into  Mohawk.
>
> Access full article below:
> http://www.standard-freeholder.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1045097
>
>
>
>
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From wiigwaas at MSN.COM  Tue May 27 21:29:23 2008
From: wiigwaas at MSN.COM (Earl Otchingwanigan)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 16:29:23 -0500
Subject: Mohawk language goes country (fwd link)
Message-ID: <TUE.27.MAY.2008.162923.0500.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Greetings Heather: Thank you.  Earl Otchingwanigan
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Heather Souter<mailto:hsouter at GMAIL.COM> 
  To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU<mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU> 
  Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 3:13 PM
  Subject: Re: [ILAT] Mohawk language goes country (fwd link)


  Taanshi, Earl and Richard,

  I am excited to hear how you are using music to express and teach your languages!  I have a friend speaks Cree and teaches the language--Laura Burnof.  She sings and has made a recording of songs for children in Cree.  

  Also, since you have heard of Kashtin, I wonder if you have heard of Carl Quinn?  He is a Cree man from the Saddle Lake Reserve in Alberta Canada.   Quite an artist and visionary!  Not everyone may like his music, but he sings in Cree and is a talented musician.  Take a listen and read more about him at
  http://cdbaby.com/cd/carlquinn<http://cdbaby.com/cd/carlquinn>

  By the way, I am teaching myself how to play guitar (country?!) and am starting to sing in Michif, my langauge.  You guys are an inspiration to me!

  Eekoshi pitamaa. That's all for now!
  Heather


  2008/5/27 Earl Otchingwanigan <wiigwaas at msn.com<mailto:wiigwaas at msn.com>>:

    Greetings Richard:  Appreciate your confirming comments and extending the point as to what others have contributed to the music side of learning and revitalizing/retaining language ---- I'm sure there are many other unsung [pardon the pun], native peoples out there contributing to this almost under-rated way of learning; kudos to them all.  Cheers, Earl Otchingwanigan 
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: Richard Smith<mailto:rzs at WILDBLUE.NET> 
      To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU<mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU> 
      Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 3:24 PM
      Subject: Re: [ILAT] Mohawk language goes country (fwd link)


      tižamęh Earl

      i agree totally 
      "Kashtin" is one of my favorite groups,(not sure they are still together,though.)
       blending contemporary instruments/universal themes yet expressed in indigenous language.

      Using music to teach kids language just can't be underemphasized either.
      I have a bag full of fun and silly songs I've composed in the Wyandot language
      that i use for teaching pronunciation, grammar, numbers, animals, etc...
      all original tunes but sung with traditional waterdrum and handshakers.

      Songs enter and somehow bi-pass alot of "dangerous intersections" of the mind
      Wish more teachers understood this...it would have helped me alot as a youth

      -Richard 
      Wyandotte, Oklahoma



      On 5/27/08 10:57 AM, "Earl Otchingwanigan" <wiigwaas at MSN.COM<mailto:wiigwaas at MSN.COM>> wrote:


        Appreciate the good post ----a great and exciting idea as it may help inspire young people to further invest interest in their language using music whether traditional or via loan music and non-traditional instruments, besides it's just plain fun stuff to do ---- but it should be noted though, various native people have been doing this very same thing for sometime, including myself ---- I have for some 25 or 30 years now, been using my native language in jazz and pop genre performing with a non-traditional musical instrument.  Cheers, Earl Otchingwanigan


          ----- Original Message ----- 
           
          From: phil cash cash <mailto:cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU><mailto:cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU>  
           
          To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU<mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU> 
           
          Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 10:50 AM
           
          Subject: [ILAT] Mohawk language goes  country (fwd link)
           

          Mohawk language goes country

          Ontario, CA
          Posted By  Michael Peeling

          The Mohawk language is making its mark on country  music.

          Margaret Peters, a language curriculum specialist with the  Ahkwesahsne Mohawk
          Board of Education, has taken her efforts to keep the  Mohawk language alive to
          another level by directing her students through  the process of creating a music
          video.

          The choice of song, "Jackson"  by Johnny and June Carter-Cash, was inspired by
          Teddy Peters', Margaret's  husband, and his hobby of translating country songs
          into  Mohawk.

          Access full article below:
          http://www.standard-freeholder.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1045097<http://www.standard-freeholder.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1045097>






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From neskiem at GMAIL.COM  Wed May 28 02:23:08 2008
From: neskiem at GMAIL.COM (Neskie Manuel)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 23:23:08 -0300
Subject: Mohawk language goes country (fwd link)
In-Reply-To: <BAY111-DAV337C239CC1450077FD119D1BD0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <TUE.27.MAY.2008.232308.0300.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Weytk-p,

This summer I rode my bike across the country and I learned about this
lady who sings pop songs in Anishnaabe.    I think she's from
Wikwemikong on Manitoulin Island.  Does anybody know who she is?

2008/5/27 Earl Otchingwanigan <wiigwaas at msn.com>:
> Greetings Heather: Thank you.  Earl Otchingwanigan
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Heather Souter
> To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
> Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 3:13 PM
> Subject: Re: [ILAT] Mohawk language goes country (fwd link)
> Taanshi, Earl and Richard,
>
> I am excited to hear how you are using music to express and teach your
> languages!  I have a friend speaks Cree and teaches the language--Laura
> Burnof.  She sings and has made a recording of songs for children in Cree.
>
> Also, since you have heard of Kashtin, I wonder if you have heard of Carl
> Quinn?  He is a Cree man from the Saddle Lake Reserve in Alberta Canada.
> Quite an artist and visionary!  Not everyone may like his music, but he
> sings in Cree and is a talented musician.  Take a listen and read more about
> him at
> http://cdbaby.com/cd/carlquinn
>
> By the way, I am teaching myself how to play guitar (country?!) and am
> starting to sing in Michif, my langauge.  You guys are an inspiration to me!
>
> Eekoshi pitamaa. That's all for now!
> Heather
>
> 2008/5/27 Earl Otchingwanigan <wiigwaas at msn.com>:
>>
>> Greetings Richard:  Appreciate your confirming comments and extending the
>> point as to what others have contributed to the music side of learning and
>> revitalizing/retaining language ---- I'm sure there are many other
>> unsung [pardon the pun], native peoples out there contributing to this
>> almost under-rated way of learning; kudos to them all.  Cheers, Earl
>> Otchingwanigan
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Richard Smith
>> To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 3:24 PM
>> Subject: Re: [ILAT] Mohawk language goes country (fwd link)
>> tižamęh Earl
>>
>> i agree totally
>> "Kashtin" is one of my favorite groups,(not sure they are still
>> together,though.)
>>  blending contemporary instruments/universal themes yet expressed in
>> indigenous language.
>>
>> Using music to teach kids language just can't be underemphasized either.
>> I have a bag full of fun and silly songs I've composed in the Wyandot
>> language
>> that i use for teaching pronunciation, grammar, numbers, animals, etc...
>> all original tunes but sung with traditional waterdrum and handshakers.
>>
>> Songs enter and somehow bi-pass alot of "dangerous intersections" of the
>> mind
>> Wish more teachers understood this...it would have helped me alot as a
>> youth
>>
>> -Richard
>> Wyandotte, Oklahoma
>>
>>
>>
>> On 5/27/08 10:57 AM, "Earl Otchingwanigan" <wiigwaas at MSN.COM> wrote:
>>
>> Appreciate the good post ----a great and exciting idea as it may help
>> inspire young people to further invest interest in their language using
>> music whether traditional or via loan music and non-traditional instruments,
>> besides it's just plain fun stuff to do ---- but it should be noted though,
>> various native people have been doing this very same thing for sometime,
>> including myself ---- I have for some 25 or 30 years now, been using my
>> native language in jazz and pop genre performing with a non-traditional
>> musical instrument.  Cheers, Earl Otchingwanigan
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> From: phil cash cash <mailto:cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU>
>>
>> To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
>>
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 10:50 AM
>>
>> Subject: [ILAT] Mohawk language goes  country (fwd link)
>>
>>
>> Mohawk language goes country
>>
>> Ontario, CA
>> Posted By  Michael Peeling
>>
>> The Mohawk language is making its mark on country  music.
>>
>> Margaret Peters, a language curriculum specialist with the  Ahkwesahsne
>> Mohawk
>> Board of Education, has taken her efforts to keep the  Mohawk language
>> alive to
>> another level by directing her students through  the process of creating a
>> music
>> video.
>>
>> The choice of song, "Jackson"  by Johnny and June Carter-Cash, was
>> inspired by
>> Teddy Peters', Margaret's  husband, and his hobby of translating country
>> songs
>> into  Mohawk.
>>
>> Access full article below:
>> http://www.standard-freeholder.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1045097
>>
>>
>
>


From rzs at WILDBLUE.NET  Wed May 28 14:57:58 2008
From: rzs at WILDBLUE.NET (Richard Smith)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 07:57:58 -0700
Subject: Mohawk language goes country (fwd link)
In-Reply-To: <6d8c8c410805271313x23e329d2m1d446479026eb3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <WED.28.MAY.2008.075758.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

tižamęh Heather and Earl,

thanks for sharing Carl Quinn...so great...gotta hear more!
as a young man I spent a couple weeks fighting fires out in the bush
in Northern Saskatchewan with a group of Cree from the Sturgeon Lake
reserve...
hearing the language sung brings back memories...

Does Laura Burnof have a cd of her kids songs available?
When you see her tell her a Wyandot from Oklahoma would love to exchange
children 
song cds!      We ALL need to inspire each other
           
  >>>-------> <(returning forward)> <--------<<<

Funny thing ,when Wyandot adults here hear the songs and ditties
they often say..."you should teach US that way!"
I usually shake my head and say..."what? with all the puppets too?"

   --+--=<<(+)>>=--+--

   Richard (Sǫháhiyǫh)
   Wyandotte, Oklahoma





On 5/27/08 1:13 PM, "Heather Souter" <hsouter at GMAIL.COM> wrote:

> Taanshi, Earl and Richard,
> 
> I am excited to hear how you are using music to express and teach your
> languages!  I have a friend speaks Cree and teaches the language--Laura
> Burnof.  She sings and has made a recording of songs for children in Cree.
> 
> Also, since you have heard of Kashtin, I wonder if you have heard of Carl
> Quinn?  He is a Cree man from the Saddle Lake Reserve in Alberta Canada.
> Quite an artist and visionary!  Not everyone may like his music, but he sings
> in Cree and is a talented musician.  Take a listen and read more about him at
> http://cdbaby.com/cd/carlquinn
> 
> By the way, I am teaching myself how to play guitar (country?!) and am
> starting to sing in Michif, my langauge.  You guys are an inspiration to me!
> 
> Eekoshi pitamaa. That's all for now!
> Heather
> 
> 2008/5/27 Earl Otchingwanigan <wiigwaas at msn.com>:
>> Greetings Richard:  Appreciate your confirming comments and extending the
>> point as to what others have contributed to the music side of learning and
>> revitalizing/retaining language ---- I'm sure there are many other unsung
>> [pardon the pun], native peoples out there contributing to this almost
>> under-rated way of learning; kudos to them all.  Cheers, Earl Otchingwanigan
>>>  
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>  
>>> From: Richard Smith <mailto:rzs at WILDBLUE.NET>
>>>  
>>> To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
>>>  
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 3:24 PM
>>>  
>>> Subject: Re: [ILAT] Mohawk language goes  country (fwd link)
>>>  
>>> 
>>> tižamęh Earl
>>> 
>>> i agree totally
>>> "Kashtin" is  one of my favorite groups,(not sure they are still
>>> together,though.)
>>>  blending contemporary instruments/universal themes  yet expressed in
>>> indigenous language.
>>> 
>>> Using music to teach kids  language just can't be underemphasized either.
>>> I have a bag full of fun and  silly songs I've composed in the Wyandot
>>> language
>>> that i use for teaching  pronunciation, grammar, numbers, animals, etc...
>>> all original tunes but  sung with traditional waterdrum and handshakers.
>>> 
>>> Songs enter and  somehow bi-pass alot of "dangerous intersections" of the
>>> mind
>>> Wish more  teachers understood this...it would have helped me alot as a
>>> youth
>>> 
>>> -Richard 
>>> Wyandotte, Oklahoma
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 5/27/08 10:57  AM, "Earl Otchingwanigan" <wiigwaas at MSN.COM> wrote:
>>> 
>>>  
>>>> Appreciate the good post ----a great and exciting  idea as it may help
>>>> inspire young people to further invest interest in their  language using
>>>> music whether traditional or via loan music and  non-traditional
>>>> instruments, besides it's just plain fun stuff to do  ---- but it should be
>>>> noted though, various native people have been doing  this very same thing
>>>> for sometime, including myself ---- I have for some 25  or 30 years now,
>>>> been using my native language in jazz and pop genre  performing with a
>>>> non-traditional musical instrument.  Cheers, Earl  Otchingwanigan
>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>  
>>>>> From: phil cash cash <mailto:cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU>
>>>>>  
>>>>> To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
>>>>>  
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 10:50  AM
>>>>>  
>>>>> Subject: [ILAT] Mohawk language goes  country  (fwd link)
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Mohawk language goes country
>>>>> 
>>>>> Ontario,  CA
>>>>> Posted By  Michael Peeling
>>>>> 
>>>>> The Mohawk language is making  its mark on country  music.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Margaret Peters, a language  curriculum specialist with the  Ahkwesahsne
>>>>> Mohawk
>>>>> Board of  Education, has taken her efforts to keep the  Mohawk language
>>>>> alive  to
>>>>> another level by directing her students through  the process of  creating
>>>>> a music
>>>>> video.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The choice of song, "Jackson"  by  Johnny and June Carter-Cash, was
>>>>> inspired by
>>>>> Teddy Peters', Margaret's   husband, and his hobby of translating country
>>>>> songs
>>>>> into   Mohawk.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Access full article below:
>>>>> http://www.standard-freeholder.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1045097
>>>> 
>>> 
> 
> 


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From hsouter at GMAIL.COM  Wed May 28 14:27:30 2008
From: hsouter at GMAIL.COM (Heather Souter)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 09:27:30 -0500
Subject: Mohawk language goes country (fwd link)
In-Reply-To: <C462C106.4966%rzs@wildblue.net>
Message-ID: <WED.28.MAY.2008.092730.0500.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Taanshi, Richard (eekwa kiishtawaaw! and all of you, too!)

I will ask Laura for you about the CD.  BTW, she is actually from Northern
Saskatchewan!  Small world, eh!

Also, I am pleased to tell you that I got SO inspired yesterday that I
actually wrote a children's song in Michif (My Auntie's Bannock) for my
auntie who does language work with me.  She was thrilled!  (So, was I
because I got all the grammar, etc, correct!)  Anyhow,  it was great fun and
I think I will continue on with it.  It helped cement my learning....

Kichi-maarsii kihtwaam!  Thanks very much again!

Heather

On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 9:57 AM, Richard Smith <rzs at wildblue.net> wrote:

>  tižamęh Heather and Earl,
>
> thanks for sharing Carl Quinn...so great...gotta hear more!
> as a young man I spent a couple weeks fighting fires out in the bush
> in Northern Saskatchewan with a group of Cree from the Sturgeon Lake
> reserve...
> hearing the language sung brings back memories...
>
> Does Laura Burnof have a cd of her kids songs available?
> When you see her tell her a Wyandot from Oklahoma would love to exchange
> children
> song cds!      We ALL need to inspire each other
>
>   >>>-------> <(*returning forward*)> <--------<<<
>
> Funny thing ,when Wyandot adults here hear the songs and ditties
> they often say..."you should teach US that way!"
> I usually shake my head and say..."what? with all the puppets too?"
>
>    --+--=<<(+)>>=--+--
>
>    Richard (Sǫháhiyǫh)
>    Wyandotte, Oklahoma
>
>
>
>
>
> On 5/27/08 1:13 PM, "Heather Souter" <hsouter at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>
> Taanshi, Earl and Richard,
>
> I am excited to hear how you are using music to express and teach your
> languages!  I have a friend speaks Cree and teaches the language--Laura
> Burnof.  She sings and has made a recording of songs for children in Cree.
>
> Also, since you have heard of Kashtin, I wonder if you have heard of Carl
> Quinn?  He is a Cree man from the Saddle Lake Reserve in Alberta Canada.
>   Quite an artist and visionary!  Not everyone may like his music, but he
> sings in Cree and is a talented musician.  Take a listen and read more about
> him at
> http://cdbaby.com/cd/carlquinn
>
> By the way, I am teaching myself how to play guitar (country?!) and am
> starting to sing in Michif, my langauge.  You guys are an inspiration to me!
>
> Eekoshi pitamaa. That's all for now!
> Heather
>
> 2008/5/27 Earl Otchingwanigan <wiigwaas at msn.com>:
>
> Greetings Richard:  Appreciate your confirming comments and extending the
> point as to what others have contributed to the music side of learning and
> revitalizing/retaining language ---- I'm sure there are many other unsung
> [pardon the pun], native peoples out there contributing to this almost
> under-rated way of learning; kudos to them all.  Cheers, Earl Otchingwanigan
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* Richard Smith <mailto:rzs at WILDBLUE.NET> <rzs at WILDBLUE.NET>
>
> *To:* ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 27, 2008 3:24 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: [ILAT] Mohawk language goes  country (fwd link)
>
>
> tižamęh Earl
>
> i agree totally
> "Kashtin" is  one of my favorite groups,(not sure they are still
>  together,though.)
>  blending contemporary instruments/universal themes  yet expressed in
> indigenous language.
>
> Using music to teach kids  language just can't be underemphasized either.
> I have a bag full of fun and  silly songs I've composed in the Wyandot
> language
> that i use for teaching  pronunciation, grammar, numbers, animals, etc...
> all original tunes but  sung with traditional waterdrum and handshakers.
>
> Songs enter and  somehow bi-pass alot of "dangerous intersections" of the
> mind
> Wish more  teachers understood this...it would have helped me alot as a
>  youth
>
> -Richard
> Wyandotte, Oklahoma
>
>
>
> On 5/27/08 10:57  AM, "Earl Otchingwanigan" <wiigwaas at MSN.COM> wrote:
>
>
>
> Appreciate the good post ----a great and exciting  idea as it may help
> inspire young people to further invest interest in their  language using
> music whether traditional or via *loan music *and  *non-traditional
> instruments, *besides it's just plain fun stuff to do  ---- but it should
> be noted though, various native people have been doing  this very same thing
> for sometime, including myself ---- I have for some 25  or 30 years now,
> been using my native language in jazz and pop genre  performing with a
> non-traditional musical instrument.  Cheers, Earl  Otchingwanigan
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* phil cash cash <mailto:cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU><cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU>
>
> *To:* ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 27, 2008 10:50  AM
>
> *Subject:* [ILAT] Mohawk language goes  country  (fwd link)
>
>
> Mohawk language goes country
>
> Ontario,  CA
> Posted By  Michael Peeling
>
> The Mohawk language is making  its mark on country  music.
>
> Margaret Peters, a language  curriculum specialist with the  Ahkwesahsne
> Mohawk
> Board of  Education, has taken her efforts to keep the  Mohawk language
> alive  to
> another level by directing her students through  the process of  creating a
> music
> video.
>
> The choice of song, "Jackson"  by  Johnny and June Carter-Cash, was
> inspired by
> Teddy Peters', Margaret's   husband, and his hobby of translating country
> songs
> into   Mohawk.
>
> Access full article below:
> http://www.standard-freeholder.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1045097
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Thu May 29 16:49:55 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 09:49:55 -0700
Subject: Director Makes the First Film in Inuit Dialect (fwd link)
Message-ID: <THU.29.MAY.2008.094955.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Director Makes the First Film in Inuit Dialect

May 28, 2008
By Halley Bondy

When actor and filmmaker Andrew Okpeaha MacLean was growing up in Fairbanks and
Barrow, Alaska, the English language dominated his film and TV viewing -- and
his vocabulary -- at the expense of his mother's native Inuit dialect, Inupiaq.
"My mom tried to teach me with varying degrees of success," he said. "But my
generation was absorbed in English.... Now I feel like I lost something."

Access full article below:
http://www.backstage.com/bso/news_reviews/nyc/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003809242


From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Thu May 29 20:38:47 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 13:38:47 -0700
Subject: Incredible pictures of one of Earth's last uncontacted tribes
 firing bows and arrows (fwd link)
Message-ID: <THU.29.MAY.2008.133847.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Incredible pictures of one of Earth's last uncontacted tribes firing bows and
arrows

By MICHAEL HANLON
Last updated at 6:53 PM on 29th May 2008

Skin painted bright red, heads partially shaved, arrows drawn back in the
longbows and aimed square at the aircraft buzzing overhead. The gesture is
unmistakable: Stay Away.

Behind the two men stands another figure, possibly a woman, her stance also
seemingly defiant. Her skin painted dark, nearly black.

The apparent aggression shown by these people is quite understandable. For they
are members of one of Earth's last uncontacted tribes, who live in the Envira
region in the thick rainforest along the Brazilian-Peruvian frontier.

Access full article below:
http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/news/article-1022822/Incredible-pictures-Earths-uncontacted-tribes-firing-bows-arrows.html


From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Thu May 29 23:13:21 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 16:13:21 -0700
Subject: Arwarbukarl - Miromaa - WIN NATIONAL IT AWARD - Media Release
 (fwd)
Message-ID: <THU.29.MAY.2008.161321.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Australia
Media Release

A non-profit Aboriginal Organisation based in Newcastle, NSW has taken out a top
award at the recent Australian Community Information and Communications
Technology (ICT) Awards held in Brisbane. Arwarbukarl Cultural Resource
Association Incorporated (ACRA) were joint winners for the category “Best use
of Software in nonprofit settings” for their development and distribution of
the “Miromaa” software program.

There were once over 10,000 traditional languages in the world. Today, every two
weeks one of those languages is lost and Australia is most at risk of losing its
traditional languages (estimated to have been between 250 and 500). Linguists
and community leaders around the world are struggling to stem this loss. It is
through the use of technology that Indigenous people globally are now
attempting to access tools to capture, preserve and promote traditional
languages.

Daryn McKenny an Aboriginal man from the Newcastle area and Manager of ACRA, is
the person behind the development of Miromaa. Daryn says “It’s through
technology that we can empower ourselves to be hands-on with work that was in
the past carried out only by trained academics and linguists. Until recently
all of the computer programs available for language recording have been aimed
at the academics, and my goal with Miromaa has been to create a tool that our
community members can easily understand and put into use.”

Over the last 4 years ACRA have been developing Miromaa to assist in the
reclamation, revitalisation and preservation of the traditional Aboriginal
languages of Australia. The main aim of the computer program is to be a user
friendly interface for Aboriginal people to use technology in all aspects of
language maintenance -from entering textual evidence of language through to the
rich multimedia products of video, audio and images, and even producing word
lists and dictionaries. Miromaa is able to assist in all aspects of the unique
– an urgent task which Aboriginal people from all over Australia are embarking
on.

Mckenny goes on to say “Like many of our people we like a challenge. Miromaa is
what happened when we faced this challenge. I’m really happy that it’s now
helping our people in all states of Australia to get involved once again and
work towards speaking our languages. Our languages hold our culture and the
knowledge of this country. They tell who we are and where we are from. Many say
that language is our soul. Our work is creating a happy marriage of the world’s
oldest culture and the world’s newest culture, technology. We like to call
this, Modern Ways for Ancient Words”.

ACRA is funded under the Federal Governments Department of Environment, Water,
Heritage and the Arts and its Maintenance for Indigenous Language Records
grants scheme. In 2007 they were also recognised for their innovative training
methods in travelling to rural and remote areas of Australia, this training
which centred around up-skilling Aboriginal people in the latest technology was
supported by Microsoft Australia and their Corporate Citizenship program
“Unlimited Potential”. All of ACRA’s activities are aimed to deliver a product
which is user friendly and is backed up by the necessary training.

Media Contacts:

Arwarbukarl CRA - Daryn McKenny Ph 0428 963 363
CISA (Award Organisers) – Doug Jaquier Ph 08 8122 2752

Web http://www.cisa.asn.au/cgi-bin/wf.pl and
http://www.connectingup.org/conference/

About Arwarbukarl CRA

www.arwarbukarl.com.au

About Miromaa

http://www.arwarbukarl.com.au/default.aspx?id=153

Further Information

The other joint winner was Support Link Australia, for a web based application
that enhances early intervention outcomes for vulnerable individuals and
families.
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From thien at UNIMELB.EDU.AU  Thu May 29 23:14:01 2008
From: thien at UNIMELB.EDU.AU (Nick Thieberger)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 09:14:01 +1000
Subject: Call for papers,
 1st International Conference on Language Documentation and
 Conservation
Message-ID: <FRI.30.MAY.2008.091401.1000.>

The *1st International Conference on Language Documentation and Conservation
(ICLDC) * will be held at the
<http://www.eastwestcenter.org/about-cc.asp>University
of Hawai'i at Manoa <http://manoa.hawaii.edu/> , from *March 12th-14th, 2009
*. There will also be an optional opportunity to visit Hilo, on the Big
Island of Hawai'i, in an extension of the conference that will focus on the
Hawaiian language revitalization program, *March 16th-17th.*

It has been a decade since Himmelmann's article on language documentation
appeared and focused the field into thinking in terms of creating a lasting
record of a language that could be used by speakers as well as by academics.
This conference aims to assess what has been achieved in the past decade and
what the practice of language documentation within linguistics has been and
can be. It has become apparent that there is too much for a linguist alone
to achieve and that language documentation requires collaboration. This
conference will focus on the theme of collaboration in language
documentation and revitalization and will include sessions on
interdisciplinary topics.
Plenary speakers include:

Nikolaus Himmelmann, University of Münster
Leanne Hinton, UC Berkeley
Paul Newman, Indiana University, University of Michigan
Phil Cash Cash, University of Arizona
Topics

We welcome abstracts on the issue of a retrospective on language
documentation–an assessment after a decade, and on topics related to
collaborative language documentation and conservation which may include:

   - Community-based documentation/conservation initiatives
   - Issues in building language documentation in collaborative teams
   - Interdisciplinary fieldwork
   - Collaboration for mobilization of language data
   - Technology in documentation – methods and pitfalls
   - Graduate students and documentation
   - Topics in areal language documentation
   - Training in documentation methods – beyond the university
   - Teaching/learning small languages
   - Language revitalization
   - Language archiving

This is not an exhaustive list and individual papers and/or colloquia on
topics outside these remits are warmly welcomed.
Abstract submission

Abstracts should be submitted in English, but presentations can be in any
language. We particularly welcome presentations in languages of the region.

*Abstracts are due by September 15th, 2008, with notification of acceptance
by October 17th, 2008.
Abstracts will be submitted online via the conference webpage (available
July 2008).*
We ask for *abstracts of 400 words* for online publication so that
conference participants can have a good idea of the content of your paper
and a *50 word summary* for inclusion in the conference program.

Selected papers from the conference will be invited to submit to the journal
*Language Documentation & Conservation <http://nflrc.hawaii.edu/ldc/>* for
publication.

Further details will be published on the conference website:
http://nflrc.hawaii.edu/ICLDC09

Enquiries to: ICLDC at hawaii.edu
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From nflrc at HAWAII.EDU  Fri May 30 01:15:15 2008
From: nflrc at HAWAII.EDU (National Foreign Language Resource Center)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 15:15:15 -1000
Subject: Call for Proposals: 1st International Conference on Language
 Documentation and Conservation (Honolulu, Hawaii - March 12-14,
 2009)
Message-ID: <THU.29.MAY.2008.151515.1000.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Apologies for any cross-postings . . .


1st International Conference on Language Documentation and Conservation:
Supporting Small Languages Together. Honolulu, Hawai'i, March 12-14, 2009
http://nflrc.hawaii.edu/ICLDC09


The 1st International Conference on Language Documentation and
Conservation (ICLDC) will be held at the Hawaii Imin International
Conference Center, on the east side of the University of Hawaii at Manoa
campus, from March 12th-14th, 2009. There will also be an optional
opportunity to visit Hilo, on the Big Island of Hawai'i, in an extension
of the conference that will focus on the Hawaiian language revitalization
program, March 16th-17th.

It has been a decade since Himmelmann's article on language documentation
appeared and focused the field into thinking in terms of creating a
lasting record of a language that could be used by speakers as well as by
academics. This conference aims to assess what has been achieved in the
past decade and what the practice of language documentation within
linguistics has been and can be. It has become apparent that there is too
much for a linguist alone to achieve and that language documentation
requires collaboration. This conference will focus on the theme of
collaboration in language documentation and revitalization and will
include sessions on interdisciplinary topics.


TOPICS

We welcome abstracts on the issue of a retrospective on language
documentation - an assessment after a decade, and on topics related to
collaborative language documentation and conservation which may include:

- Community-based documentation/conservation initiatives
- Community viewpoints on documentation
- Issues in building language documentation in collaborative teams
- Interdisciplinary fieldwork
- Collaboration for mobilization of language data
- Technology in documentation - methods and pitfalls
- Graduate students and documentation
- Topics in areal language documentation
- Training in documentation methods - beyond the university
- Teaching/learning small languages
- Language revitalization
- Language archiving
- Balancing documentation and language learning

This is not an exhaustive list and individual papers and/or colloquia on
topics outside these remits are warmly welcomed.


ABSTRACT SUBMISSION

Abstracts should be submitted in English, but presentations can be in any
language. We particularly welcome presentations in languages of the
region.

ABSTRACTS ARE DUE BY SEPTEMBER 15th, 2008 with notification of acceptance
by October 17th 2008.

Abstracts will be SUBMITTED ONLINE via the conference webpage (available
July 2008).

We ask for ABSTRACTS OF 400 WORDS for online publication so that
conference participants can have a good idea of the content of your paper
and a 50 WORD SUMMARY for inclusion in the conference program.

Selected papers from the conference will be invited to submit to the
journal Language Documentation & Conservation for publication.


PRESENTATION FORMATS

PAPERS will be allowed 20 minutes with 10 minutes of question time.
POSTERS will be on display throughout the conference. Poster presentations
will run during the lunch breaks.
COLLOQUIA (themed sets of sessions) associated with the theme of the
conference are also welcome.


PLENARY SPEAKERS include:

* Nikolaus Himmelmann, University of Munster
* Leanne Hinton, UC Berkeley
* Paul Newman, Indiana University, University of Michigan
* Phil Cash Cash, University of Arizona


ADVISORY COMMITTEE
Helen Aristar-Dry (LinguistList, Eastern Michigan University)
Peter Austin (SOAS)
Linda Barwick (Music, University of Sydney)
Phil Cash Cash (University of Arizona)
Nicholas Evans (Linguistics, Australian National University)
Margaret Florey (Linguistics, Monash University)
Carol Genetti (Linguistics, University of California, Santa Barbara)
Spike Gildea (University of Oregon)
Colette Grinevald (University of Lyon)
Nikolaus Himmelmann (Institut fur Allgemeine Sprachwissenschaft
Westfalische Wilhelms-Universitat Munster)
Leanne Hinton (UC Berkeley)
Gary Holton (Alaska Native Language Center)
Anna Margetts (Linguistics, Monash University)
Will McClatchey (Botany, University of Hawai'i)
Claire Moyse-Faurie (LACITO, CNRS)
Ulrike Mosel (Seminar fur Allgemeine Sprachwissenschaft, Universitat Kiel)
Paul Newman (Indiana University, University of Michigan)
Yuko Otsuka (Linguistics, University of Hawai'i)
Keren D. Rice (University of Toronto)
Norvin Richards (Massachusetts Institute of Technology)


Further details will be published on the conference website:
http://nflrc.hawaii.edu/ICLDC09

Enquiries to: ICLDC at hawaii.edu


*************************************************************************
  N           National Foreign Language Resource Center
   F          University of Hawai'i
    L         1859 East-West Road, #106
     R        Honolulu HI 96822
      C       voice: (808) 956-9424, fax: (808) 956-5983
              email: nflrc at hawaii.edu
VISIT OUR WEBSITE!   http://nflrc.hawaii.edu
*************************************************************************


From hal1403 at YAHOO.COM  Sat May 31 19:26:31 2008
From: hal1403 at YAHOO.COM (Haley De Korne)
Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 12:26:31 -0700
Subject: Anishinaabe pop songs
In-Reply-To: <6838a1930805271923v17992e4wa722db6539d4d0f4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SAT.31.MAY.2008.122631.0700.>

Neskie,

Helen Roy (from Manitoulin Island) has put out a few CDs, "Diiva Miinwaa Davis", translating old &amp; new pop songs into Anishinaabemowin.&nbsp; She also teaches the language at Michigan State University- and anywhere else that she's asked to go, maandakwe!&nbsp; I bet that's who you heard about.
Well done on the bike trip!
Haley

--- On Tue, 5/27/08, Neskie Manuel &lt;neskiem at GMAIL.COM&gt; wrote:

From: Neskie Manuel &lt;neskiem at GMAIL.COM&gt;
Subject: Re: [ILAT] Mohawk language goes country (fwd link)
To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Date: Tuesday, May 27, 2008, 10:23 PM

Weytk-p,

This summer I rode my bike across the country and I learned about this
lady who sings pop songs in Anishnaabe.    I think she's from
Wikwemikong on Manitoulin Island.  Does anybody know who she is?

2008/5/27 Earl Otchingwanigan &lt;wiigwaas at msn.com&gt;:
&gt; Greetings Heather: Thank you.  Earl Otchingwanigan
&gt;
&gt; ----- Original Message -----
&gt; From: Heather Souter
&gt; To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
&gt; Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 3:13 PM
&gt; Subject: Re: [ILAT] Mohawk language goes country (fwd link)
&gt; Taanshi, Earl and Richard,
&gt;
&gt; I am excited to hear how you are using music to express and teach your
&gt; languages!  I have a friend speaks Cree and teaches the language--Laura
&gt; Burnof.  She sings and has made a recording of songs for children in Cree.
&gt;
&gt; Also, since you have heard of Kashtin, I wonder if you have heard of Carl
&gt; Quinn?  He is a Cree man from the Saddle Lake Reserve in Alberta Canada.
&gt; Quite an artist and visionary!  Not everyone may like his music, but he
&gt; sings in Cree and is a talented musician.  Take a listen and read more
about
&gt; him at
&gt; http://cdbaby.com/cd/carlquinn
&gt;
&gt; By the way, I am teaching myself how to play guitar (country?!) and am
&gt; starting to sing in Michif, my langauge.  You guys are an inspiration to
me!
&gt;
&gt; Eekoshi pitamaa. That's all for now!
&gt; Heather
&gt;
&gt; 2008/5/27 Earl Otchingwanigan &lt;wiigwaas at msn.com&gt;:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Greetings Richard:  Appreciate your confirming comments and extending
the
&gt;&gt; point as to what others have contributed to the music side of learning
and
&gt;&gt; revitalizing/retaining language ---- I'm sure there are many other
&gt;&gt; unsung [pardon the pun], native peoples out there contributing to this
&gt;&gt; almost under-rated way of learning; kudos to them all.  Cheers, Earl
&gt;&gt; Otchingwanigan
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; ----- Original Message -----
&gt;&gt; From: Richard Smith
&gt;&gt; To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
&gt;&gt; Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 3:24 PM
&gt;&gt; Subject: Re: [ILAT] Mohawk language goes country (fwd link)
&gt;&gt; tižamęh Earl
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; i agree totally
&gt;&gt; "Kashtin" is one of my favorite groups,(not sure they are
still
&gt;&gt; together,though.)
&gt;&gt;  blending contemporary instruments/universal themes yet expressed in
&gt;&gt; indigenous language.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Using music to teach kids language just can't be underemphasized
either.
&gt;&gt; I have a bag full of fun and silly songs I've composed in the
Wyandot
&gt;&gt; language
&gt;&gt; that i use for teaching pronunciation, grammar, numbers, animals,
etc...
&gt;&gt; all original tunes but sung with traditional waterdrum and
handshakers.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Songs enter and somehow bi-pass alot of "dangerous
intersections" of the
&gt;&gt; mind
&gt;&gt; Wish more teachers understood this...it would have helped me alot as a
&gt;&gt; youth
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; -Richard
&gt;&gt; Wyandotte, Oklahoma
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; On 5/27/08 10:57 AM, "Earl Otchingwanigan"
&lt;wiigwaas at MSN.COM&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Appreciate the good post ----a great and exciting idea as it may help
&gt;&gt; inspire young people to further invest interest in their language
using
&gt;&gt; music whether traditional or via loan music and non-traditional
instruments,
&gt;&gt; besides it's just plain fun stuff to do ---- but it should be
noted though,
&gt;&gt; various native people have been doing this very same thing for
sometime,
&gt;&gt; including myself ---- I have for some 25 or 30 years now, been using
my
&gt;&gt; native language in jazz and pop genre performing with a
non-traditional
&gt;&gt; musical instrument.  Cheers, Earl Otchingwanigan
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; ----- Original Message -----
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; From: phil cash cash &lt;mailto:cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 10:50 AM
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Subject: [ILAT] Mohawk language goes  country (fwd link)
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Mohawk language goes country
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Ontario, CA
&gt;&gt; Posted By  Michael Peeling
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; The Mohawk language is making its mark on country  music.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Margaret Peters, a language curriculum specialist with the 
Ahkwesahsne
&gt;&gt; Mohawk
&gt;&gt; Board of Education, has taken her efforts to keep the  Mohawk language
&gt;&gt; alive to
&gt;&gt; another level by directing her students through  the process of
creating a
&gt;&gt; music
&gt;&gt; video.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; The choice of song, "Jackson"  by Johnny and June
Carter-Cash, was
&gt;&gt; inspired by
&gt;&gt; Teddy Peters', Margaret's  husband, and his hobby of
translating country
&gt;&gt; songs
&gt;&gt; into  Mohawk.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Access full article below:
&gt;&gt; http://www.standard-freeholder.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1045097
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt;


      
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From phonosemantics at EARTHLINK.NET  Sat May 31 21:23:32 2008
From: phonosemantics at EARTHLINK.NET (jess tauber)
Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 16:23:32 -0500
Subject: Anishinaabe pop songs
Message-ID: <SAT.31.MAY.2008.162332.0500.PHONOSEMANTICS@EARTHLINK.NET>

I'm finding this new thread intriguing. Yahgan has no real song tradition, but there's nothing in the language itself that would stop folks if they wanted to create one. Any suggestions?

Jess Tauber
phonosemantics at earthlink.net


From wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU  Thu May  1 16:18:47 2008
From: wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU (William J Poser)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 12:18:47 -0400
Subject: Tibetan
Message-ID: <THU.1.MAY.2008.121847.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

The article: http://www.cctv.com/english/special/todaytibet/20080428/107350.shtml
on how wonderfully things are going for Tibetan is Chinese government
propaganda. The reality is that China is engaged in cultural genocide
in occupied Tibet as part of which it promotes Chinese at the expense
of Tibetan. Here is a recent Reuters article in the Vancouver Sun:
http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=9a994eb2-e9e8-45cf-ab0e-88de470367fc

You can download the Free Tibet report here: http://www.freetibet.org/files/Forked(1).pdf

Bill


From rzs at WILDBLUE.NET  Thu May  1 20:21:48 2008
From: rzs at WILDBLUE.NET (Richard Smith)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 13:21:48 -0700
Subject: Tibetan
In-Reply-To: <20080501161847.A5222B2482@lorax.ldc.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <THU.1.MAY.2008.132148.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

common threads of conquest

first stage: Heavy hand
- a show of force breaking down the heart of a people group
by forcibly replacing things indigenous with the unfamiliar.
language,ceremony,government,and even rights.
assimilate the mind,take the children from parents
for re-education.
( Chinese Gov. is still at this heavy hand stage in Tibet)

final stage: Soft Hand
Conquerors  eventually encourage "revival" "celebration" of
indigenous culture . Assimilated ones are no longer a "threat"
when  the mind views its own culture as reduced
to mere color, decor,food, a garnish...a tourist attraction.

The Han Chinese politically conquered
the indigenous minority people of Southern China in the 1800's.
 Now Chinese government wants to revive "culture".
It encourages minorities to dance, sing, hold ceremony
perform as tourist attractions on stages, in restaurants
and even in reconstructed tourist villages outside Kunming.
Families there are even allowed more than one child.
And there is a special university for minority students.
Kunming, I have visited and seen it's show of "culture".

I hope all indigenous leaders are aware of these tactics.
"culture" defined by conquerors is highly questionable

Richard Zane Smith




On 5/1/08 9:18 AM, "William J Poser" <wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU> wrote:

> The article: 
> http://www.cctv.com/english/special/todaytibet/20080428/107350.shtml
> on how wonderfully things are going for Tibetan is Chinese government
> propaganda. The reality is that China is engaged in cultural genocide
> in occupied Tibet as part of which it promotes Chinese at the expense
> of Tibetan. Here is a recent Reuters article in the Vancouver Sun:
> http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=9a994eb2-e9e8-45cf-ab0e-
> 88de470367fc
> 
> You can download the Free Tibet report here:
> http://www.freetibet.org/files/Forked(1).pdf
> 
> Bill


From phonosemantics at EARTHLINK.NET  Thu May  1 19:03:15 2008
From: phonosemantics at EARTHLINK.NET (jess tauber)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 14:03:15 -0500
Subject: Tibetan
Message-ID: <THU.1.MAY.2008.140315.0500.PHONOSEMANTICS@EARTHLINK.NET>

Wasn't California visited by Chinese treasure fleets long before Columbus or the Vikings came to North America?

So when are the Han going to claim that THIS continent is historically part of China?

Jess Tauber
phonosemantics at earthlink.net


From aidan at USYD.EDU.AU  Thu May  1 22:37:09 2008
From: aidan at USYD.EDU.AU (Aidan Wilson)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 08:37:09 +1000
Subject: Tibetan
In-Reply-To: <23548316.1209668596347.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hound.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <FRI.2.MAY.2008.083709.1000.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Well, a British historian hypothesised that a fleet of Chinese junks 
made it throughout south-east Asia, around Arica, into the Meditteranean 
and across the Atlantic about 50 years before Columbus, but I believe 
that his theory was pretty comprehensively refuted. Not sure though 
about any earlier expeditions across the Pacific; would have to have 
been rather early on to predate the Norse, right?

-Aidan

--
Aidan Wilson
Paradisec

On 2/05/2008 5:03 AM, jess tauber wrote:
> Wasn't California visited by Chinese treasure fleets long before Columbus or the Vikings came to North America?
>
> So when are the Han going to claim that THIS continent is historically part of China?
>
> Jess Tauber
> phonosemantics at earthlink.net
>   


From wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU  Thu May  1 23:03:31 2008
From: wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU (William J Poser)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 19:03:31 -0400
Subject: Tibetan
In-Reply-To: <481A4615.9000108@usyd.edu.au>
Message-ID: <THU.1.MAY.2008.190331.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

The hypothesis that a "Treasure Fleet" reached North America prior to
Columbus is based on the explorations of Admiral Zheng He and is
most recently defended in the book "1421" by Gavin Menzies.
The book has not been favorably received by scholars. My
own (quite negative) comments on the book are at:
http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/000409.html
and: http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/003169.html.

Some people have taken the earlier Chinese accounts of voyages to Peng Lai
as describing travel to the Americas, but these accounts are vague and
almost certainly in large part mythological and insofar as they do
describe real places, there is no particular reason to think that
they are in the Americas. (If you have read the Japanese Taketori
Monogatari "The Tale of the Bamboo Gatherer", which exists in
English children's versions, the magical place called Horai in
Japanese is based on the Chinese legends of Peng Lai.)

There is, on the other hand, good evidence that material from
Chinese and Japanese wrecks reached the Pacific Coast. It is
conceivable that people may have survived and also reached
the Pacific Coast alive, but if so, there is no record of it,
and no reason to believe that they ever made it home again.
 


From phonosemantics at EARTHLINK.NET  Thu May  1 23:45:49 2008
From: phonosemantics at EARTHLINK.NET (jess tauber)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 19:45:49 -0400
Subject: Tibetan
Message-ID: <THU.1.MAY.2008.194549.0400.PHONOSEMANTICS@EARTHLINK.NET>

Tone languages in the Americas- CHINAntec! It was so obvious, even a cave-man could see it....

Jess Tauber
phonosemantics at earthlink.net


From rzs at WILDBLUE.NET  Fri May  2 15:11:52 2008
From: rzs at WILDBLUE.NET (Richard Smith)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 08:11:52 -0700
Subject: Tibetan
In-Reply-To: <20080501230331.29776B245D@lorax.ldc.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <FRI.2.MAY.2008.081152.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Even after historical accounts are straightened out
The USA still maintains the yearly celebration of "Columbus Day",
He didn't even have to land on this continent to get credit.
The Chinese might actually possess myths of equal validity.

Doctrines of Discovery are pretty fascinating studies.
They really are a history of languages (the mind)

-Richard

> Some people have taken the earlier Chinese accounts of voyages to Peng Lai
> as describing travel to the Americas, but these accounts are vague and
> almost certainly in large part mythological and insofar as they do
> describe real places, there is no particular reason to think that
> they are in the Americas.


From Dmark916 at AOL.COM  Fri May  2 16:55:36 2008
From: Dmark916 at AOL.COM (Dmark916 at AOL.COM)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 12:55:36 EDT
Subject: Tibetan
Message-ID: <FRI.2.MAY.2008.125536.EDT.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Just to add a little diversity here, there are also the oral histories of  
the Garifuna people of the Caribbean that tell of their original arrival in the  
Western Hemisphere from western Africa in the 1300's...intermarriage with  
indigenous peoples of the area and migrations around the Caribbean. Lending some 
 interesting linguistic clues, the language spoken by the women is different 
from  that spoken by the men.
 
Dorothy Martinez
Retired Educator



**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family 
favorites at AOL Food.      
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)
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From wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU  Fri May  2 19:42:22 2008
From: wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU (William J Poser)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 15:42:22 -0400
Subject: Tibetan
In-Reply-To: <ce3.2dab6bf0.354ca188@aol.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.2.MAY.2008.154222.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

I'm familiar with the amazing history of the Garifuna within the Caribbean
but have never heard of their arrival from Western Africa in the 1300s.
As far as I know, their African ancestors were plantation slaves brought
to the Caribbean by Europeans. Where is the story about an earlier
migration from Africa?

Bill


From Dmark916 at AOL.COM  Fri May  2 20:39:34 2008
From: Dmark916 at AOL.COM (Dmark916 at AOL.COM)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 16:39:34 EDT
Subject: Tibetan
Message-ID: <FRI.2.MAY.2008.163934.EDT.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

My primary source, among others, is from material of the Gulisi Garifuna  
Museum located in the Chuluhadiwa Garinagu Monument Park, Dangriga (Stann Creek  
District) Belize, Central America. The e-mail address (a couple of years old) 
is  _gulisi at btl.net_ (mailto:gulisi at btl.net) 
This informative little museum presents the oral history and migrations of  
the people, and is well worth a visit.
 
Dorothy Martinez



**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family 
favorites at AOL Food.      
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)
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From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Sat May  3 05:32:40 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 22:32:40 -0700
Subject: from SIL 15, Flagstaff AZ
Message-ID: <FRI.2.MAY.2008.223240.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Greetings,

I just finished the first day of the Stabilizing Indigenous Languages (SIL) 15. 
A very inspiring and heart felt conference attended by mostly indigenous
community language practitioners, teachers, and advocates who are engaged in
language revitalization work.

SIL
http://jan.ucc.nau.edu/~jar/SIL9brochure.html

A number of sessions today (and perhaps tomorrow as well) showed how digital
video/film is being used both as a documentation and revitalization tool in the
indigenous communities.  Technology is also playing key role for a number of
communities.  But I must add that language immersion is still widely considered
as THE primary method(s) for creating and sustaining new speakers of a heritage
language.

Anyway, this quick note is not really meant as a review but just a reminder of
all the great and impressive revitalization work that is happening today...in
spite of all the tremendous odds many communities are facing.

Phil Cash Cash
UofA


From anguksuar at YAHOO.COM  Sat May  3 15:10:26 2008
From: anguksuar at YAHOO.COM (Richard LaFortune)
Date: Sat, 3 May 2008 08:10:26 -0700
Subject: from SIL 15, Flagstaff AZ
In-Reply-To: <20080502223240.86ti8ko4k4c0gg0o@www.email.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <SAT.3.MAY.2008.081026.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

I wish they'd stick with the acronym SILC (Stabilizing
Indigenous Languages Conference) rather than risking
shortening SIL, which tends to conflate it with an
organization with a notorious history.
Richard LaFortune

--- phil cash cash <cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU> wrote:

> Greetings,
> 
> I just finished the first day of the Stabilizing
> Indigenous Languages (SIL) 15. 
> A very inspiring and heart felt conference attended
> by mostly indigenous
> community language practitioners, teachers, and
> advocates who are engaged in
> language revitalization work.
> 
> SIL
> http://jan.ucc.nau.edu/~jar/SIL9brochure.html
> 
> A number of sessions today (and perhaps tomorrow as
> well) showed how digital
> video/film is being used both as a documentation and
> revitalization tool in the
> indigenous communities.  Technology is also playing
> key role for a number of
> communities.  But I must add that language immersion
> is still widely considered
> as THE primary method(s) for creating and sustaining
> new speakers of a heritage
> language.
> 
> Anyway, this quick note is not really meant as a
> review but just a reminder of
> all the great and impressive revitalization work
> that is happening today...in
> spite of all the tremendous odds many communities
> are facing.
> 
> Phil Cash Cash
> UofA
> 



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
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know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ


From wiigwaas at MSN.COM  Sun May  4 04:07:33 2008
From: wiigwaas at MSN.COM (Earl Otchingwanigan)
Date: Sat, 3 May 2008 21:07:33 -0700
Subject: from SIL 15, Flagstaff AZ
Message-ID: <SAT.3.MAY.2008.210733.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Hear, Hear!, well said....
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Richard LaFortune<mailto:anguksuar at YAHOO.COM> 
  To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU<mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU> 
  Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 8:10 AM
  Subject: Re: [ILAT] from SIL 15, Flagstaff AZ


  I wish they'd stick with the acronym SILC (Stabilizing
  Indigenous Languages Conference) rather than risking
  shortening SIL, which tends to conflate it with an
  organization with a notorious history.
  Richard LaFortune

  --- phil cash cash <cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU<mailto:cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU>> wrote:

  > Greetings,
  > 
  > I just finished the first day of the Stabilizing
  > Indigenous Languages (SIL) 15. 
  > A very inspiring and heart felt conference attended
  > by mostly indigenous
  > community language practitioners, teachers, and
  > advocates who are engaged in
  > language revitalization work.
  > 
  > SIL
  > http://jan.ucc.nau.edu/~jar/SIL9brochure.html<http://jan.ucc.nau.edu/~jar/SIL9brochure.html>
  > 
  > A number of sessions today (and perhaps tomorrow as
  > well) showed how digital
  > video/film is being used both as a documentation and
  > revitalization tool in the
  > indigenous communities.  Technology is also playing
  > key role for a number of
  > communities.  But I must add that language immersion
  > is still widely considered
  > as THE primary method(s) for creating and sustaining
  > new speakers of a heritage
  > language.
  > 
  > Anyway, this quick note is not really meant as a
  > review but just a reminder of
  > all the great and impressive revitalization work
  > that is happening today...in
  > spite of all the tremendous odds many communities
  > are facing.
  > 
  > Phil Cash Cash
  > UofA
  > 



        ____________________________________________________________________________________
  Be a better friend, newshound, and 
  know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ<http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ>
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From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Mon May  5 17:12:16 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 10:12:16 -0700
Subject: The Linguists: Searching for Endangered Languages Around the
 World (fwd link)
Message-ID: <MON.5.MAY.2008.101216.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

The WIP
May 3, 2008

The Linguists: Searching for Endangered Languages Around the World

Jessica Mosby
- USA -

Linguistics, the study of languages, is generally not interesting for people who
are not linguists. Filming the daily work of a linguist ? reading and listening
? is an idea better suited for a sleep aid than a 70 minute documentary film.
But The Linguists, which follows the work of Dr. K. David Harrison and Dr.
Gregory Anderson, should not be written off as esoteric. The film?s stars are
more like Indiana Jones-style adventurers traveling to remote locations in
search of undocumented and dying languages than stodgy academics.

Access full article below:
http://thewip.net/contributors/2008/05/the_linguists_searching_for_en.html


From anguksuar at YAHOO.COM  Mon May  5 18:06:43 2008
From: anguksuar at YAHOO.COM (Richard LaFortune)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 11:06:43 -0700
Subject: re SIL
In-Reply-To: <BAY111-DAV8347EF5294DE0A27583A2D1D40@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <MON.5.MAY.2008.110643.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

I forwarded this earlier to Rudy and rec'd a response.
 Some people would assert that some evangelical
translations efforts have advanced applied
-not theoretical- linguistics...except First Speakers
are required for applied fieldwork and other tasks of
science.  And the early and emerging information about
these outfits over the past couple of decades
convincingly alleges that these reactionary
denominational translators were all about neutalizing
(and you can interpret that word in its most sobering
sense) the very people who were first speakers,
because of fights over natural and political
resources.  There is no valid argument for any
government surveillance that wipes out a quarter
million Native first speakers; there is no balance in
which a list of languages outweighs the lives of
sovereign people in our ancestral domains by force of 
violence.  My own family are leading heirarchy in one
of the minority evangelical denominations in North
America, so I know from missions; and I'm a Native
person whose lineage is straght-up medicine people as
well.  I was raised not to express an opinion unless
it was considered and useful in some way.  But
that's...

Just an opinion
Anguksuar (Richard LaFortune)


> A lot of people in the field disagree with you Rudy-
> with all due respect- folks from the aeryies of the
> Academy, to the corn fields and jungles where SIL
and
> New Tribes Mission have operated over the decades.
> This includes people who have spoken to me
anecdotally
> and have no particular political axes to grind.  
>
> I suggest interested people on ILAT take a look at
> "Thy Will Be Done:  The Conquest of the Amazon :
> Nelson Rockefeller and Evangelism in the Age of Oi";
> and "The Missionaries", by Norman Lewis.  To use the
> phrase 'without substantiation' suggests that a
great
> deal of scholarship and actual substantiation from
> international government agencies, to personal
> communications by people of regard.  Who cares if
they
> have done important things in linguistics - Hitler
> built nice highways.
> Richard



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From rzs at WILDBLUE.NET  Mon May  5 21:28:56 2008
From: rzs at WILDBLUE.NET (Richard Smith)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 14:28:56 -0700
Subject: re SIL
In-Reply-To: <477135.11385.qm@web43137.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <MON.5.MAY.2008.142856.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

kweh Richard LaFortune,

I sure agree with alot of what you share here.
Some people can't seem to see it.
The Evangelical/Catholic Christian views things through a window
which insists on some major absolutes usually very different than the
paradigms of the people groups they go to "save".

Giving benefit of the doubt that most are basicly wholesome people,
an Evangelical is not necessarily and consciously intent on destroying a
culture. In fact culture and even language is a side issue completely.
He might actually love those who he views as "ignorant of God" and care
deeply in his heart for souls he understands as condemned to eternal
damnation.
>From his paradigm window, these natives are children of "the fall" of
a literal Adam and Eve, and they need to be rescued at any cost.
I think Its important for us to understand what compels missionary work,
even if their view of reality is MAJOR different than our own.

An example with own ancestors i've used before: Jesuit priests would
secretly baptize Wendat children dying of small pox when their parents
weren't looking.When they were caught doing it, parents were horrified and
threw the priests out of the longhouses in fear that priests were now
finishing their children off with witchcraft and mumbling strange curses.
Its possible BOTH parents and priests deeply cared for the dying ones,
but these priests were strange newcomers, and were acting out of line.
Even if they wrote happily in their journals about how they saved dying
children from hell that day...    to my own people they acted wrongly.

Language is their vehicle for conversion of people to their own paradigm.
Wycliffe wants to "reduce" all earths languages to writing so that people
can read the Christian Bible in their own language. Its inherent with many
Christian beliefs that when "all have heard"   Christ will return to earth.
All this passion of foreigners coming to save souls from "sin" and hellfire
and convert the lost to a middle-eastern based paradigm has a cost
and weakens alot of  very important traditions of our people
but strangely enough it has one bright side. Languages are preserved and
even some pretty complicated thought is recorded.

I guess maybe i'm trying to be positive,

Richard Zane Smith
Wyandotte Oklahoma 



On 5/5/08 11:06 AM, "Richard LaFortune" <anguksuar at YAHOO.COM> wrote:

> I forwarded this earlier to Rudy and rec'd a response.
>  Some people would assert that some evangelical
> translations efforts have advanced applied
> -not theoretical- linguistics...except First Speakers
> are required for applied fieldwork and other tasks of
> science.  And the early and emerging information about
> these outfits over the past couple of decades
> convincingly alleges that these reactionary
> denominational translators were all about neutalizing
> (and you can interpret that word in its most sobering
> sense) the very people who were first speakers,
> because of fights over natural and political
> resources.  There is no valid argument for any
> government surveillance that wipes out a quarter
> million Native first speakers; there is no balance in
> which a list of languages outweighs the lives of
> sovereign people in our ancestral domains by force of
> violence.  My own family are leading heirarchy in one
> of the minority evangelical denominations in North
> America, so I know from missions; and I'm a Native
> person whose lineage is straght-up medicine people as
> well.  I was raised not to express an opinion unless
> it was considered and useful in some way.  But
> that's...
> 
> Just an opinion
> Anguksuar (Richard LaFortune)
> 
> 
>> A lot of people in the field disagree with you Rudy-
>> with all due respect- folks from the aeryies of the
>> Academy, to the corn fields and jungles where SIL
> and
>> New Tribes Mission have operated over the decades.
>> This includes people who have spoken to me
> anecdotally
>> and have no particular political axes to grind.
>> 
>> I suggest interested people on ILAT take a look at
>> "Thy Will Be Done:  The Conquest of the Amazon :
>> Nelson Rockefeller and Evangelism in the Age of Oi";
>> and "The Missionaries", by Norman Lewis.  To use the
>> phrase 'without substantiation' suggests that a
> great
>> deal of scholarship and actual substantiation from
>> international government agencies, to personal
>> communications by people of regard.  Who cares if
> they
>> have done important things in linguistics - Hitler
>> built nice highways.
>> Richard
> 
> 
> 
>       
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> ______
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ


From CMcMillan at WVC.EDU  Mon May  5 20:11:22 2008
From: CMcMillan at WVC.EDU (McMillan, Carol)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 13:11:22 -0700
Subject: Crossing the Pacific
In-Reply-To: A<481A4615.9000108@usyd.edu.au>
Message-ID: <MON.5.MAY.2008.131122.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

   As a biological anthropologist by training, and being wary of the
European penchant for wanting to have "discovered" everything, and
having read that even geneticists now say that the aboriginal peoples of
Australia had to have had boats at least 40,000 years ago, and having
looked at the people of Rapa Nui (Easter Island) vs. other Pacific
Islanders, and hearing about the Hawaiian sailing canoes that have
recently traveled to Alaska and returned, (and . . . and . . . ) I
believe it's time for us all to admit that indigenous people have been
traveling by sea for many thousands of years, back and forth between
continents.  I'm growing a bit weary of all the who-came-first debates.
Perhaps it's all worth it if European and European-decent scholars in
general become less ethnocentric in their world views.  (I'm Scottish, I
can say that.)  Maybe the debate shouldn't be about who had the
technology and ability to cross large bodies of water, but who was
motivated to do it in order to rape/pillage/plunder vs. those who went
to trade and/or visit with others.  That focus might put Columbus and
others into categories more appropriate to their conduct.

Sorry, I just had to weigh in here.

Carol McMillan


From MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US  Mon May  5 20:48:09 2008
From: MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US (Mia Kalish)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 14:48:09 -0600
Subject: Crossing the Pacific
In-Reply-To: <1129FD8A7A8E0D418E469D28C1700AFB4397DF@ad-ex-wvcmail.wvc.edu>
Message-ID: <MON.5.MAY.2008.144809.0600.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

I'm with Carol. :-)


-----Original Message-----
From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU]
On Behalf Of McMillan, Carol
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 2:11 PM
To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: [ILAT] Crossing the Pacific

   As a biological anthropologist by training, and being wary of the
European penchant for wanting to have "discovered" everything, and
having read that even geneticists now say that the aboriginal peoples of
Australia had to have had boats at least 40,000 years ago, and having
looked at the people of Rapa Nui (Easter Island) vs. other Pacific
Islanders, and hearing about the Hawaiian sailing canoes that have
recently traveled to Alaska and returned, (and . . . and . . . ) I
believe it's time for us all to admit that indigenous people have been
traveling by sea for many thousands of years, back and forth between
continents.  I'm growing a bit weary of all the who-came-first debates.
Perhaps it's all worth it if European and European-decent scholars in
general become less ethnocentric in their world views.  (I'm Scottish, I
can say that.)  Maybe the debate shouldn't be about who had the
technology and ability to cross large bodies of water, but who was
motivated to do it in order to rape/pillage/plunder vs. those who went
to trade and/or visit with others.  That focus might put Columbus and
others into categories more appropriate to their conduct.

Sorry, I just had to weigh in here.

Carol McMillan


From anguksuar at YAHOO.COM  Mon May  5 22:10:05 2008
From: anguksuar at YAHOO.COM (Richard LaFortune)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 15:10:05 -0700
Subject: pacific storytelling
In-Reply-To: <1129FD8A7A8E0D418E469D28C1700AFB4397DF@ad-ex-wvcmail.wvc.edu>
Message-ID: <MON.5.MAY.2008.151005.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

our elders have always said that the Yupiit have been
back and forth to Hawai-i for thousands of years. 
That's why our dance styles (essentially,
storytelling) as well as our spiritual traditions are
similar.
-R

--- "McMillan, Carol" <CMcMillan at WVC.EDU> wrote:

>    As a biological anthropologist by training, and
> being wary of the
> European penchant for wanting to have "discovered"
> everything, and
> having read that even geneticists now say that the
> aboriginal peoples of
> Australia had to have had boats at least 40,000
> years ago, and having
> looked at the people of Rapa Nui (Easter Island) vs.
> other Pacific
> Islanders, and hearing about the Hawaiian sailing
> canoes that have
> recently traveled to Alaska and returned, (and . . .
> and . . . ) I
> believe it's time for us all to admit that
> indigenous people have been
> traveling by sea for many thousands of years, back
> and forth between
> continents.  I'm growing a bit weary of all the
> who-came-first debates.
> Perhaps it's all worth it if European and
> European-decent scholars in
> general become less ethnocentric in their world
> views.  (I'm Scottish, I
> can say that.)  Maybe the debate shouldn't be about
> who had the
> technology and ability to cross large bodies of
> water, but who was
> motivated to do it in order to rape/pillage/plunder
> vs. those who went
> to trade and/or visit with others.  That focus might
> put Columbus and
> others into categories more appropriate to their
> conduct.
> 
> Sorry, I just had to weigh in here.
> 
> Carol McMillan
> 



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ


From daryn at ARWARBUKARL.COM.AU  Tue May  6 00:46:33 2008
From: daryn at ARWARBUKARL.COM.AU (Daryn McKenny)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 10:46:33 +1000
Subject: Crossing the Pacific
Message-ID: <TUE.6.MAY.2008.104633.1000.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Hi,

I am sure you have all seen this article then, it is an old one:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/430944.stm

I have just attended ILATC and I just felt like I was at home, an amazing place with amazing people on amazing country, just like home. I know we are related, Aboriginal people connect with Aboriginal people.

But,we must have had really big trees to make our bark canoes back then though.


Regards
?
Daryn McKenny
?
Arwarbukarl Cultural Resource Association Inc.

Read our Indigenous Language BLOG at http://www.arwarbukarl.net.au/blog/
?


-----Original Message-----
From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of McMillan, Carol
Sent: Tuesday, 6 May 2008 6:11 AM
To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: [ILAT] Crossing the Pacific

   As a biological anthropologist by training, and being wary of the
European penchant for wanting to have "discovered" everything, and
having read that even geneticists now say that the aboriginal peoples of
Australia had to have had boats at least 40,000 years ago, and having
looked at the people of Rapa Nui (Easter Island) vs. other Pacific
Islanders, and hearing about the Hawaiian sailing canoes that have
recently traveled to Alaska and returned, (and . . . and . . . ) I
believe it's time for us all to admit that indigenous people have been
traveling by sea for many thousands of years, back and forth between
continents.  I'm growing a bit weary of all the who-came-first debates.
Perhaps it's all worth it if European and European-decent scholars in
general become less ethnocentric in their world views.  (I'm Scottish, I
can say that.)  Maybe the debate shouldn't be about who had the
technology and ability to cross large bodies of water, but who was
motivated to do it in order to rape/pillage/plunder vs. those who went
to trade and/or visit with others.  That focus might put Columbus and
others into categories more appropriate to their conduct.

Sorry, I just had to weigh in here.

Carol McMillan


From jtucker at STARBAND.NET  Tue May  6 01:45:20 2008
From: jtucker at STARBAND.NET (Jan Tucker)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 21:45:20 -0400
Subject: re SIL
Message-ID: <MON.5.MAY.2008.214520.0400.JTUCKER@STARBAND.NET>

Richard,
    I was at a "primitive skills" event last weekend. I was listening to 
what I thought was a group of men who were "End Timers". They were fired up 
with the "word" in their flint knapping circle. I was sitting quietly sewing 
a deer hide to smoke in a demonstration. Anyway, I let it out I was an 
anthropologist and spent the rest of the weekend being interrogated about my 
beliefs. It was tough, my point though is that I hadn't realized how 
important the phrase "In the beginning was the Word" to these Southern 
Christians until this weekend.  It made me realize why the Bible is so 
important to this group, and realize why the missionaries have become 
linguists, and translated the bible into so many different languages. Maybe 
they are becoming like their God, being the first to share the "Word". Their 
zealot like enthusiasm seems to suggest this to me. I agree after talking to 
these people with what you said here

>From his paradigm window, these natives are children of "the fall" of
> a literal Adam and Eve, and they need to be rescued at any cost.
> I think Its important for us to understand what compels missionary work,
> even if their view of reality is MAJOR different than our own.

I heard this same kind of thinking about the unsaved, and a story about 
someone (Adam or Adam's brother???) taking a wife from the land of Nod or 
something. Wish I'd played closer attention now. The person was suggesting 
the land of Nod was populated by other people or maybe the  unsaved people. 
All this was suggested with questions and seemingly open for interpretation.

Understanding the perspective of the Christian missionaries "paradigm 
window" is useful to defend against the assimilations pressures that often 
begun with adopting their religion.

Jan Tucker
Applied Cultural Anthropologist
Liberal Arts Department
Lake City Community College
Lake City, FL

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Richard Smith" <rzs at WILDBLUE.NET>
To: <ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 5:28 PM
Subject: Re: [ILAT] re SIL


> kweh Richard LaFortune,
>
> I sure agree with alot of what you share here.
> Some people can't seem to see it.
> The Evangelical/Catholic Christian views things through a window
> which insists on some major absolutes usually very different than the
> paradigms of the people groups they go to "save".
>
> Giving benefit of the doubt that most are basicly wholesome people,
> an Evangelical is not necessarily and consciously intent on destroying a
> culture. In fact culture and even language is a side issue completely.
> He might actually love those who he views as "ignorant of God" and care
> deeply in his heart for souls he understands as condemned to eternal
> damnation.
> From his paradigm window, these natives are children of "the fall" of
> a literal Adam and Eve, and they need to be rescued at any cost.
> I think Its important for us to understand what compels missionary work,
> even if their view of reality is MAJOR different than our own.
>
> An example with own ancestors i've used before: Jesuit priests would
> secretly baptize Wendat children dying of small pox when their parents
> weren't looking.When they were caught doing it, parents were horrified and
> threw the priests out of the longhouses in fear that priests were now
> finishing their children off with witchcraft and mumbling strange curses.
> Its possible BOTH parents and priests deeply cared for the dying ones,
> but these priests were strange newcomers, and were acting out of line.
> Even if they wrote happily in their journals about how they saved dying
> children from hell that day...    to my own people they acted wrongly.
>
> Language is their vehicle for conversion of people to their own paradigm.
> Wycliffe wants to "reduce" all earths languages to writing so that people
> can read the Christian Bible in their own language. Its inherent with many
> Christian beliefs that when "all have heard"   Christ will return to 
> earth.
> All this passion of foreigners coming to save souls from "sin" and 
> hellfire
> and convert the lost to a middle-eastern based paradigm has a cost
> and weakens alot of  very important traditions of our people
> but strangely enough it has one bright side. Languages are preserved and
> even some pretty complicated thought is recorded.
>
> I guess maybe i'm trying to be positive,
>
> Richard Zane Smith
> Wyandotte Oklahoma
>
>
>
> On 5/5/08 11:06 AM, "Richard LaFortune" <anguksuar at YAHOO.COM> wrote:
>
>> I forwarded this earlier to Rudy and rec'd a response.
>>  Some people would assert that some evangelical
>> translations efforts have advanced applied
>> -not theoretical- linguistics...except First Speakers
>> are required for applied fieldwork and other tasks of
>> science.  And the early and emerging information about
>> these outfits over the past couple of decades
>> convincingly alleges that these reactionary
>> denominational translators were all about neutalizing
>> (and you can interpret that word in its most sobering
>> sense) the very people who were first speakers,
>> because of fights over natural and political
>> resources.  There is no valid argument for any
>> government surveillance that wipes out a quarter
>> million Native first speakers; there is no balance in
>> which a list of languages outweighs the lives of
>> sovereign people in our ancestral domains by force of
>> violence.  My own family are leading heirarchy in one
>> of the minority evangelical denominations in North
>> America, so I know from missions; and I'm a Native
>> person whose lineage is straght-up medicine people as
>> well.  I was raised not to express an opinion unless
>> it was considered and useful in some way.  But
>> that's...
>>
>> Just an opinion
>> Anguksuar (Richard LaFortune)
>>
>>
>>> A lot of people in the field disagree with you Rudy-
>>> with all due respect- folks from the aeryies of the
>>> Academy, to the corn fields and jungles where SIL
>> and
>>> New Tribes Mission have operated over the decades.
>>> This includes people who have spoken to me
>> anecdotally
>>> and have no particular political axes to grind.
>>>
>>> I suggest interested people on ILAT take a look at
>>> "Thy Will Be Done:  The Conquest of the Amazon :
>>> Nelson Rockefeller and Evangelism in the Age of Oi";
>>> and "The Missionaries", by Norman Lewis.  To use the
>>> phrase 'without substantiation' suggests that a
>> great
>>> deal of scholarship and actual substantiation from
>>> international government agencies, to personal
>>> communications by people of regard.  Who cares if
>> they
>>> have done important things in linguistics - Hitler
>>> built nice highways.
>>> Richard
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________________________
>> ______
>> Be a better friend, newshound, and
>> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.
>> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.7/1410 - Release Date: 5/1/2008 
> 5:30 PM
> 


From daryn at ARWARBUKARL.COM.AU  Tue May  6 02:17:12 2008
From: daryn at ARWARBUKARL.COM.AU (Daryn McKenny)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 12:17:12 +1000
Subject: Crossing the Pacific
Message-ID: <TUE.6.MAY.2008.121712.1000.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Silly me, way too many acronyms out there, I should have said SILC

-----Original Message-----
From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Daryn McKenny
Sent: Tuesday, 6 May 2008 10:47 AM
To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: Re: [ILAT] Crossing the Pacific

Hi,

I am sure you have all seen this article then, it is an old one:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/430944.stm

I have just attended ILATC and I just felt like I was at home, an amazing place with amazing people on amazing country, just like home. I know we are related, Aboriginal people connect with Aboriginal people.

But,we must have had really big trees to make our bark canoes back then though.


Regards
?
Daryn McKenny
?
Arwarbukarl Cultural Resource Association Inc.

Read our Indigenous Language BLOG at http://www.arwarbukarl.net.au/blog/
?


-----Original Message-----
From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of McMillan, Carol
Sent: Tuesday, 6 May 2008 6:11 AM
To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: [ILAT] Crossing the Pacific

   As a biological anthropologist by training, and being wary of the
European penchant for wanting to have "discovered" everything, and
having read that even geneticists now say that the aboriginal peoples of
Australia had to have had boats at least 40,000 years ago, and having
looked at the people of Rapa Nui (Easter Island) vs. other Pacific
Islanders, and hearing about the Hawaiian sailing canoes that have
recently traveled to Alaska and returned, (and . . . and . . . ) I
believe it's time for us all to admit that indigenous people have been
traveling by sea for many thousands of years, back and forth between
continents.  I'm growing a bit weary of all the who-came-first debates.
Perhaps it's all worth it if European and European-decent scholars in
general become less ethnocentric in their world views.  (I'm Scottish, I
can say that.)  Maybe the debate shouldn't be about who had the
technology and ability to cross large bodies of water, but who was
motivated to do it in order to rape/pillage/plunder vs. those who went
to trade and/or visit with others.  That focus might put Columbus and
others into categories more appropriate to their conduct.

Sorry, I just had to weigh in here.

Carol McMillan


From wiigwaas at MSN.COM  Tue May  6 04:39:43 2008
From: wiigwaas at MSN.COM (Earl Otchingwanigan)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 21:39:43 -0700
Subject: Crossing the Pacific
Message-ID: <MON.5.MAY.2008.213943.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Kudos to those who have presented enthusiastic theories including those of artistic license, but to bring you up to speed, these theories are greatly outdated and invalid ~ through a recent press release of a reputable unnamed source, substantial evidence has been uncovered that a certain tribe of American Indians traveled extensively world wide in ancient times both by sea and land and being of cultural bearer status, enabled most of the other humans they met in these strange and different lands to create begin meaningful cultures and societies ~ indeed, recently, a eminent ethnologist found an isolated group in Germany living in teepees and wearing outfits with striking similarity to 19th century American Indians. Cheers, Wayaaseshkang      
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Daryn McKenny<mailto:daryn at ARWARBUKARL.COM.AU> 
  To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU<mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU> 
  Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 5:46 PM
  Subject: Re: [ILAT] Crossing the Pacific


  Hi,

  I am sure you have all seen this article then, it is an old one:

  http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/430944.stm<http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/430944.stm>

  I have just attended ILATC and I just felt like I was at home, an amazing place with amazing people on amazing country, just like home. I know we are related, Aboriginal people connect with Aboriginal people.

  But,we must have had really big trees to make our bark canoes back then though.


  Regards

  Daryn McKenny

  Arwarbukarl Cultural Resource Association Inc.

  Read our Indigenous Language BLOG at http://www.arwarbukarl.net.au/blog/<http://www.arwarbukarl.net.au/blog/>



  -----Original Message-----
  From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of McMillan, Carol
  Sent: Tuesday, 6 May 2008 6:11 AM
  To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU<mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
  Subject: [ILAT] Crossing the Pacific

     As a biological anthropologist by training, and being wary of the
  European penchant for wanting to have "discovered" everything, and
  having read that even geneticists now say that the aboriginal peoples of
  Australia had to have had boats at least 40,000 years ago, and having
  looked at the people of Rapa Nui (Easter Island) vs. other Pacific
  Islanders, and hearing about the Hawaiian sailing canoes that have
  recently traveled to Alaska and returned, (and . . . and . . . ) I
  believe it's time for us all to admit that indigenous people have been
  traveling by sea for many thousands of years, back and forth between
  continents.  I'm growing a bit weary of all the who-came-first debates.
  Perhaps it's all worth it if European and European-decent scholars in
  general become less ethnocentric in their world views.  (I'm Scottish, I
  can say that.)  Maybe the debate shouldn't be about who had the
  technology and ability to cross large bodies of water, but who was
  motivated to do it in order to rape/pillage/plunder vs. those who went
  to trade and/or visit with others.  That focus might put Columbus and
  others into categories more appropriate to their conduct.

  Sorry, I just had to weigh in here.

  Carol McMillan
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From wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU  Tue May  6 03:31:23 2008
From: wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU (William J Poser)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 23:31:23 -0400
Subject: Crossing the Pacific
In-Reply-To: <BAY111-DAV129A6E636C1312C4A7FC49D1D60@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <MON.5.MAY.2008.233123.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Did I miss something? I don't recall any discussion on this list of
whether or when aboriginal people crossed the Pacific. The only
discussion along these lines was about whether there is evidence that
the Chinese visited the Americas.

Bill


From aidan at USYD.EDU.AU  Tue May  6 04:25:20 2008
From: aidan at USYD.EDU.AU (Aidan Wilson)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 14:25:20 +1000
Subject: Crossing the Pacific
In-Reply-To: <BAY111-DAV129A6E636C1312C4A7FC49D1D60@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <TUE.6.MAY.2008.142520.1000.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Ha, reminds me a bit of the tenuous geneological connection between 
Dravidian languages and Australian languages based on place names (!) 
such as "Parramatta", which is in Sydney (or just outside - depending on 
how large you think Sydney spreads), and not even close to what should 
be the locus of communication between the Subcontinent and Meganesia.

A relative of a friend told me this one most recently (I'd heard it 
before), and his source? A dude that he knows sparingly who reads lots 
of historical linguistics books. Excellent.

-Aidan

Earl Otchingwanigan wrote:
> Kudos to those who have presented enthusiastic theories 
> including those of artistic license, but to bring you up to speed, 
> these theories are greatly outdated and invalid ~ through a recent 
> press release of a reputable unnamed source, substantial evidence has 
> been uncovered that a certain tribe of American Indians 
> traveled extensively world wide in ancient times both by sea and land 
> and being of cultural bearer status, enabled most of the other humans 
> they met in these strange and different lands to create 
> begin meaningful cultures and societies ~ indeed, recently, a eminent 
> ethnologist found an isolated group in Germany living in teepees and 
> wearing outfits with striking similarity to 19th century American 
> Indians. Cheers, Wayaaseshkang      
>
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     *From:* Daryn McKenny <mailto:daryn at ARWARBUKARL.COM.AU>
>     *To:* ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU <mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
>     *Sent:* Monday, May 05, 2008 5:46 PM
>     *Subject:* Re: [ILAT] Crossing the Pacific
>
>     Hi,
>
>     I am sure you have all seen this article then, it is an old one:
>
>     http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/430944.stm
>
>     I have just attended ILATC and I just felt like I was at home, an
>     amazing place with amazing people on amazing country, just like
>     home. I know we are related, Aboriginal people connect with
>     Aboriginal people.
>
>     But,we must have had really big trees to make our bark canoes back
>     then though.
>
>
>     Regards
>
>     Daryn McKenny
>
>     Arwarbukarl Cultural Resource Association Inc.
>
>     Read our Indigenous Language BLOG at
>     http://www.arwarbukarl.net.au/blog/
>
>
>
>     -----Original Message-----
>     From: Indigenous Languages and Technology
>     [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of McMillan, Carol
>     Sent: Tuesday, 6 May 2008 6:11 AM
>     To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU <mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
>     Subject: [ILAT] Crossing the Pacific
>
>        As a biological anthropologist by training, and being wary of the
>     European penchant for wanting to have "discovered" everything, and
>     having read that even geneticists now say that the aboriginal
>     peoples of
>     Australia had to have had boats at least 40,000 years ago, and having
>     looked at the people of Rapa Nui (Easter Island) vs. other Pacific
>     Islanders, and hearing about the Hawaiian sailing canoes that have
>     recently traveled to Alaska and returned, (and . . . and . . . ) I
>     believe it's time for us all to admit that indigenous people have been
>     traveling by sea for many thousands of years, back and forth between
>     continents.  I'm growing a bit weary of all the who-came-first
>     debates.
>     Perhaps it's all worth it if European and European-decent scholars in
>     general become less ethnocentric in their world views.  (I'm
>     Scottish, I
>     can say that.)  Maybe the debate shouldn't be about who had the
>     technology and ability to cross large bodies of water, but who was
>     motivated to do it in order to rape/pillage/plunder vs. those who went
>     to trade and/or visit with others.  That focus might put Columbus and
>     others into categories more appropriate to their conduct.
>
>     Sorry, I just had to weigh in here.
>
>     Carol McMillan
>


From jordanlachler at GMAIL.COM  Tue May  6 04:32:04 2008
From: jordanlachler at GMAIL.COM (Jordan Lachler)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 22:32:04 -0600
Subject: Learning to speak Tlingit
Message-ID: <MON.5.MAY.2008.223204.0600.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1nPCGpQ86w

-- 
Jordan
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From phonosemantics at EARTHLINK.NET  Tue May  6 04:59:02 2008
From: phonosemantics at EARTHLINK.NET (jess tauber)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 23:59:02 -0500
Subject: Crossing the Pacific
Message-ID: <MON.5.MAY.2008.235902.0500.PHONOSEMANTICS@EARTHLINK.NET>

Dixon went into comparison of Australian and Dravidian phonotactics, IIRC, in his older book on the former. Lots of parallels, but some things are different.

I recently took another look at my collection of verb roots and stems in Australian languages (culled from numerous mostly more recent publications) and have been working on Dravidian for several weeks now, especially with regard to the primary derivational affixes.

Despite superficial similarities (more typological than anything else it would seem), roots and stems in the two groups are rather different in their phonosemantics.

Hey, I'd love to be the 'discoverer' of a new connection, but the evidence seems to be against it. OTOH, some of the things reconstructed for Dixon's Proto-Australian remind me a lot of things I've seen in American languages. A bit of an even longer stretch, eh? For making such a suggestion, I may well end up 'roo'ing this day....

In the meantime, though, now I'm sorry that I seem to have sidetracked serious discussion of the situation in Tibet. It wasn't my intention. Many countries have treated involuntary minorities cruelly, but the wound there is still fresh and bloody. Marxist idealism- it still boils down to racist imperialism. Welcome to the club, PRC.

Jess Tauber
phonosemantics at earthlink.net


From wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU  Tue May  6 05:26:21 2008
From: wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU (William J Poser)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 01:26:21 -0400
Subject: China
Message-ID: <TUE.6.MAY.2008.012621.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

>Marxist idealism- it still boils down to racist imperialism.

Ironically, China is no longer actually a Communist country.


From huangc20 at UFL.EDU  Tue May  6 06:34:41 2008
From: huangc20 at UFL.EDU (Jimmy/ Chun)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 02:34:41 -0400
Subject: China
Message-ID: <TUE.6.MAY.2008.023441.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

The so-called "Chinese culture" has a strong bias against cultural 
and linguistic diversity. This preference to singularity may have 
made it easy to see China-PRC as other European colonizers, and 
hence we bring up western theories that perceive modern 
nationalism and other -isms.

But I think Chinese singularity has a different, and probably 
historically longer, root. I'd like to think that it is in the 
language and the culture, but really I am not sure what 
"culture"-singular, that may be. What's "Chinese" anyway? Now 
people think of Mandarin as "the Chinese language," but Mandarin 
was only made into the National Language in the 1920's by the 
Chinese Nationalist Party KMT that formed Republic of China on the 
Mainland and then retreated to and occupied Taiwan in 1949 after 
losing their "original homeland" to the communists. ROC govt in 
Taiwan has reduced the indigenous Austronesian languages from 30 
to somewhere around 15.  PRC, or the communists, inherited 
Mandarin as its NL and then designed similar policies that have 
committed linguistic and cultural genocide in the Mainland, and 
that's why we are talking about Tibet right now (Please, don't 
forget the Uyghur - or East Turkestan. Compared to the Tibetan, 
the Uyghur is much ignored by the international media). Meanwhile, 
the Singabore govt has made Mandarin the "only" Chinese language 
the Chinese Singaporeans "should" all speak. Ironically, NONE of 
the so-labeled "Chinese groups" in Singapore spoke Mandarin as 
their first language before the LP was implemented. NONE!!!

So...China-PRC, Taiwan-ROC, Singapore... The problem of the 
observed racist imperialism in these regions is probably not 
communism or Marxism, but something else that has made "Chinese"; 
something that's quite obscure by now.

Oh, I think Confucianism has a lot to do with it. Instead of 
"benevolent teacher," many studies have now revealed a sexist and 
racist Confucius through examining his words, many of which are 
now commonsense idioms in Mandarin. Examples: (1) said to a woman 
- "If you are married to a chiken-man, obey the chicken; if you 
are married to a dog-man, obey the dog"; (2) "supposedly," a 
savage thanked the Chinese Confucian teacher Guanzhong by saving 
them from their vulgar native culture - "Without Guanzhong, we 
would never learn to tie our hair and we would still wear our 
clothes in the wrong way"

Since these thoughts, stories, and words are encoded into the 
language, it should not matter whether PRC govt really did abolish 
Confucian symbols during the Cultural Revolution...


On Tue May 06 01:26:21 EDT 2008, William J Poser 
<wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU> wrote:

>> Marxist idealism- it still boils down to racist imperialism.
> 
> Ironically, China is no longer actually a Communist country.
> 
> 


From dave_pearson at SIL.ORG  Tue May  6 14:05:38 2008
From: dave_pearson at SIL.ORG (Dave Pearson)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 15:05:38 +0100
Subject: re SIL
In-Reply-To: <477135.11385.qm@web43137.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.6.MAY.2008.150538.0100.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Richard,

I have never found accusations based on guilt-by-association
(SIL-NTM-Rockerfeller-CIA etc.) to be convincing. Your addition of Hitler to
the list (below) simply weakens an already feeble argument. In any case,
even if there were truth in these accusations there's nothing I or anybody
else can do about the SIL of 40 or 50 years ago. Incidentally, Pullum's
recent obituary of Derbyshire
(http://www.linguistlist.org/issues/19/19-1.html ) is a sobering reality
check of the period. 

The fact that current criticism is based upon events of a previous century
is a testimony to the SIL of today. As an ardent supporter of human rights
in general and indigenous rights in particular I can assure you that the
organisation that you describe is not one that I would be willing to join.

At some point I'll post a report on the half-day debate on indigenous
languages held last month at the UN Permanent Forum on Indigenous Issues. 

Dave Pearson, SIL International

-----Original Message-----
From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU]
On Behalf Of Richard LaFortune
Sent: 05 May 2008 19:07
To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: Re: [ILAT] re SIL

I forwarded this earlier to Rudy and rec'd a response.
 Some people would assert that some evangelical
translations efforts have advanced applied
-not theoretical- linguistics...except First Speakers
are required for applied fieldwork and other tasks of
science.  And the early and emerging information about
these outfits over the past couple of decades
convincingly alleges that these reactionary
denominational translators were all about neutalizing
(and you can interpret that word in its most sobering
sense) the very people who were first speakers,
because of fights over natural and political
resources.  There is no valid argument for any
government surveillance that wipes out a quarter
million Native first speakers; there is no balance in
which a list of languages outweighs the lives of
sovereign people in our ancestral domains by force of 
violence.  My own family are leading heirarchy in one
of the minority evangelical denominations in North
America, so I know from missions; and I'm a Native
person whose lineage is straght-up medicine people as
well.  I was raised not to express an opinion unless
it was considered and useful in some way.  But
that's...

Just an opinion
Anguksuar (Richard LaFortune)


> A lot of people in the field disagree with you Rudy-
> with all due respect- folks from the aeryies of the
> Academy, to the corn fields and jungles where SIL
and
> New Tribes Mission have operated over the decades.
> This includes people who have spoken to me
anecdotally
> and have no particular political axes to grind.  
>
> I suggest interested people on ILAT take a look at
> "Thy Will Be Done:  The Conquest of the Amazon :
> Nelson Rockefeller and Evangelism in the Age of Oi";
> and "The Missionaries", by Norman Lewis.  To use the
> phrase 'without substantiation' suggests that a
great
> deal of scholarship and actual substantiation from
> international government agencies, to personal
> communications by people of regard.  Who cares if
they
> have done important things in linguistics - Hitler
> built nice highways.
> Richard



 
____________________________________________________________________________
________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
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From awebster at SIU.EDU  Tue May  6 14:20:09 2008
From: awebster at SIU.EDU (awebster@siu.edu)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 10:20:09 -0400
Subject: re SIL
In-Reply-To: <002801c8af1a$dc2dd1e0$0100a8c0@owner9fqsnjd3n>
Message-ID: <TUE.6.MAY.2008.102009.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Dear Jan Tucker and others,

I am reminded of Momaday's House Made of Dawn, "In beginning 
was the word" is a wonderful idea, Momaday tells us, but 
then "White people" had to go adding something, they could not 
leave it alone, and so they added, "and the word was God."

Some Christian denominations are into translation by degrees, 
and some are not. The Jehovah's Witnesses, for example, attempt 
to replicate Jehovah as a Navajo word: Jiihovah. But this seems 
naive linguistics. One, it should probably be Jiihobah, and 
two, I doubt very much that they mean to suggest that /h/ is 
actually pronounced word final in Jiihovah (it certainly is not 
in English). But in Navajo, word final /h/ is pronounced (i.e., 
gah 'rabbit'). Other denominations make decisions on whether or 
not to translate Jesus into Navajo or leave it has Jesus. 
Understanding ideologically what can and cannot be translated 
across languages becomes an interesting approach to "the word".

Best, akw

---------Included Message----------
>Date: 5-may-2008 20:45:41 -0500
>From: "Jan Tucker" <jtucker at starband.net>
>To: <ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
>Subject: Re: [ILAT] re SIL
>
>Richard,
>    I was at a "primitive skills" event last weekend. I was 
listening to 
>what I thought was a group of men who were "End Timers". They 
were fired up 
>with the "word" in their flint knapping circle. I was sitting 
quietly sewing 
>a deer hide to smoke in a demonstration. Anyway, I let it out 
I was an 
>anthropologist and spent the rest of the weekend being 
interrogated about my 
>beliefs. It was tough, my point though is that I hadn't 
realized how 
>important the phrase "In the beginning was the Word" to these 
Southern 
>Christians until this weekend.  It made me realize why the 
Bible is so 
>important to this group, and realize why the missionaries have 
become 
>linguists, and translated the bible into so many different 
languages. Maybe 
>they are becoming like their God, being the first to share 
the "Word". Their 
>zealot like enthusiasm seems to suggest this to me. I agree 
after talking to 
>these people with what you said here
>
>>From his paradigm window, these natives are children of "the 
fall" of
>> a literal Adam and Eve, and they need to be rescued at any 
cost.
>> I think Its important for us to understand what compels 
missionary work,
>> even if their view of reality is MAJOR different than our 
own.
>
>I heard this same kind of thinking about the unsaved, and a 
story about 
>someone (Adam or Adam's brother???) taking a wife from the 
land of Nod or 
>something. Wish I'd played closer attention now. The person 
was suggesting 
>the land of Nod was populated by other people or maybe the  
unsaved people. 
>All this was suggested with questions and seemingly open for 
interpretation.
>
>Understanding the perspective of the Christian 
missionaries "paradigm 
>window" is useful to defend against the assimilations 
pressures that often 
>begun with adopting their religion.
>
>Jan Tucker
>Applied Cultural Anthropologist
>Liberal Arts Department
>Lake City Community College
>Lake City, FL
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Richard Smith" <rzs at WILDBLUE.NET>
>To: <ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
>Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 5:28 PM
>Subject: Re: [ILAT] re SIL
>
>
>> kweh Richard LaFortune,
>>
>> I sure agree with alot of what you share here.
>> Some people can't seem to see it.
>> The Evangelical/Catholic Christian views things through a 
window
>> which insists on some major absolutes usually very different 
than the
>> paradigms of the people groups they go to "save".
>>
>> Giving benefit of the doubt that most are basicly wholesome 
people,
>> an Evangelical is not necessarily and consciously intent on 
destroying a
>> culture. In fact culture and even language is a side issue 
completely.
>> He might actually love those who he views as "ignorant of 
God" and care
>> deeply in his heart for souls he understands as condemned to 
eternal
>> damnation.
>> From his paradigm window, these natives are children of "the 
fall" of
>> a literal Adam and Eve, and they need to be rescued at any 
cost.
>> I think Its important for us to understand what compels 
missionary work,
>> even if their view of reality is MAJOR different than our 
own.
>>
>> An example with own ancestors i've used before: Jesuit 
priests would
>> secretly baptize Wendat children dying of small pox when 
their parents
>> weren't looking.When they were caught doing it, parents were 
horrified and
>> threw the priests out of the longhouses in fear that priests 
were now
>> finishing their children off with witchcraft and mumbling 
strange curses.
>> Its possible BOTH parents and priests deeply cared for the 
dying ones,
>> but these priests were strange newcomers, and were acting 
out of line.
>> Even if they wrote happily in their journals about how they 
saved dying
>> children from hell that day...    to my own people they 
acted wrongly.
>>
>> Language is their vehicle for conversion of people to their 
own paradigm.
>> Wycliffe wants to "reduce" all earths languages to writing 
so that people
>> can read the Christian Bible in their own language. Its 
inherent with many
>> Christian beliefs that when "all have heard"   Christ will 
return to 
>> earth.
>> All this passion of foreigners coming to save souls 
from "sin" and 
>> hellfire
>> and convert the lost to a middle-eastern based paradigm has 
a cost
>> and weakens alot of  very important traditions of our people
>> but strangely enough it has one bright side. Languages are 
preserved and
>> even some pretty complicated thought is recorded.
>>
>> I guess maybe i'm trying to be positive,
>>
>> Richard Zane Smith
>> Wyandotte Oklahoma
>>
>>
>>
>> On 5/5/08 11:06 AM, "Richard LaFortune" 
<anguksuar at YAHOO.COM> wrote:
>>
>>> I forwarded this earlier to Rudy and rec'd a response.
>>>  Some people would assert that some evangelical
>>> translations efforts have advanced applied
>>> -not theoretical- linguistics...except First Speakers
>>> are required for applied fieldwork and other tasks of
>>> science.  And the early and emerging information about
>>> these outfits over the past couple of decades
>>> convincingly alleges that these reactionary
>>> denominational translators were all about neutalizing
>>> (and you can interpret that word in its most sobering
>>> sense) the very people who were first speakers,
>>> because of fights over natural and political
>>> resources.  There is no valid argument for any
>>> government surveillance that wipes out a quarter
>>> million Native first speakers; there is no balance in
>>> which a list of languages outweighs the lives of
>>> sovereign people in our ancestral domains by force of
>>> violence.  My own family are leading heirarchy in one
>>> of the minority evangelical denominations in North
>>> America, so I know from missions; and I'm a Native
>>> person whose lineage is straght-up medicine people as
>>> well.  I was raised not to express an opinion unless
>>> it was considered and useful in some way.  But
>>> that's...
>>>
>>> Just an opinion
>>> Anguksuar (Richard LaFortune)
>>>
>>>
>>>> A lot of people in the field disagree with you Rudy-
>>>> with all due respect- folks from the aeryies of the
>>>> Academy, to the corn fields and jungles where SIL
>>> and
>>>> New Tribes Mission have operated over the decades.
>>>> This includes people who have spoken to me
>>> anecdotally
>>>> and have no particular political axes to grind.
>>>>
>>>> I suggest interested people on ILAT take a look at
>>>> "Thy Will Be Done:  The Conquest of the Amazon :
>>>> Nelson Rockefeller and Evangelism in the Age of Oi";
>>>> and "The Missionaries", by Norman Lewis.  To use the
>>>> phrase 'without substantiation' suggests that a
>>> great
>>>> deal of scholarship and actual substantiation from
>>>> international government agencies, to personal
>>>> communications by people of regard.  Who cares if
>>> they
>>>> have done important things in linguistics - Hitler
>>>> built nice highways.
>>>> Richard
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
________________________________________________________________
______________
>>> ______
>>> Be a better friend, newshound, and
>>> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.
>>> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG.
>> Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.7/1410 - Release 
Date: 5/1/2008 
>> 5:30 PM
>> 
>
>
---------End of Included Message----------

Anthony K. Webster, Ph.D.
Department of Anthropology &
Native American Studies Minor
Southern Illinois University
Mail Code 4502
Carbondale, IL 62901-4502
618-453-5027


From jtucker at STARBAND.NET  Tue May  6 14:56:35 2008
From: jtucker at STARBAND.NET (Jan Tucker)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 10:56:35 -0400
Subject: re SIL
Message-ID: <TUE.6.MAY.2008.105635.0400.JTUCKER@STARBAND.NET>

akw and others,

I wonder how the idea of "In the beginning was the word..."  leaving out the 
addition of "and the word was God" is different?  I haven't read the book 
"House Made of Dawn", but I have the film version and remember the saying as 
you stated it. If I can ask...How do you see the difference? I can speculate 
through my own paradigm that "the word" or language arrived at the same time 
modern humans arrived or even consciousness of humans was realized. I hope I 
am not going off topic here for this discussion.

Jan


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "awebster at siu.edu" <awebster at SIU.EDU>
To: <ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 10:20 AM
Subject: Re: [ILAT] re SIL


> Dear Jan Tucker and others,
>
> I am reminded of Momaday's House Made of Dawn, "In beginning
> was the word" is a wonderful idea, Momaday tells us, but
> then "White people" had to go adding something, they could not
> leave it alone, and so they added, "and the word was God."
>
> Some Christian denominations are into translation by degrees,
> and some are not. The Jehovah's Witnesses, for example, attempt
> to replicate Jehovah as a Navajo word: Jiihovah. But this seems
> naive linguistics. One, it should probably be Jiihobah, and
> two, I doubt very much that they mean to suggest that /h/ is
> actually pronounced word final in Jiihovah (it certainly is not
> in English). But in Navajo, word final /h/ is pronounced (i.e.,
> gah 'rabbit'). Other denominations make decisions on whether or
> not to translate Jesus into Navajo or leave it has Jesus.
> Understanding ideologically what can and cannot be translated
> across languages becomes an interesting approach to "the word".
>
> Best, akw
>
> ---------Included Message----------
>>Date: 5-may-2008 20:45:41 -0500
>>From: "Jan Tucker" <jtucker at starband.net>
>>To: <ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
>>Subject: Re: [ILAT] re SIL
>>
>>Richard,
>>    I was at a "primitive skills" event last weekend. I was
> listening to
>>what I thought was a group of men who were "End Timers". They
> were fired up
>>with the "word" in their flint knapping circle. I was sitting
> quietly sewing
>>a deer hide to smoke in a demonstration. Anyway, I let it out
> I was an
>>anthropologist and spent the rest of the weekend being
> interrogated about my
>>beliefs. It was tough, my point though is that I hadn't
> realized how
>>important the phrase "In the beginning was the Word" to these
> Southern
>>Christians until this weekend.  It made me realize why the
> Bible is so
>>important to this group, and realize why the missionaries have
> become
>>linguists, and translated the bible into so many different
> languages. Maybe
>>they are becoming like their God, being the first to share
> the "Word". Their
>>zealot like enthusiasm seems to suggest this to me. I agree
> after talking to
>>these people with what you said here
>>
>>>From his paradigm window, these natives are children of "the
> fall" of
>>> a literal Adam and Eve, and they need to be rescued at any
> cost.
>>> I think Its important for us to understand what compels
> missionary work,
>>> even if their view of reality is MAJOR different than our
> own.
>>
>>I heard this same kind of thinking about the unsaved, and a
> story about
>>someone (Adam or Adam's brother???) taking a wife from the
> land of Nod or
>>something. Wish I'd played closer attention now. The person
> was suggesting
>>the land of Nod was populated by other people or maybe the
> unsaved people.
>>All this was suggested with questions and seemingly open for
> interpretation.
>>
>>Understanding the perspective of the Christian
> missionaries "paradigm
>>window" is useful to defend against the assimilations
> pressures that often
>>begun with adopting their religion.
>>
>>Jan Tucker
>>Applied Cultural Anthropologist
>>Liberal Arts Department
>>Lake City Community College
>>Lake City, FL
>>
>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>From: "Richard Smith" <rzs at WILDBLUE.NET>
>>To: <ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
>>Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 5:28 PM
>>Subject: Re: [ILAT] re SIL
>>
>>
>>> kweh Richard LaFortune,
>>>
>>> I sure agree with alot of what you share here.
>>> Some people can't seem to see it.
>>> The Evangelical/Catholic Christian views things through a
> window
>>> which insists on some major absolutes usually very different
> than the
>>> paradigms of the people groups they go to "save".
>>>
>>> Giving benefit of the doubt that most are basicly wholesome
> people,
>>> an Evangelical is not necessarily and consciously intent on
> destroying a
>>> culture. In fact culture and even language is a side issue
> completely.
>>> He might actually love those who he views as "ignorant of
> God" and care
>>> deeply in his heart for souls he understands as condemned to
> eternal
>>> damnation.
>>> From his paradigm window, these natives are children of "the
> fall" of
>>> a literal Adam and Eve, and they need to be rescued at any
> cost.
>>> I think Its important for us to understand what compels
> missionary work,
>>> even if their view of reality is MAJOR different than our
> own.
>>>
>>> An example with own ancestors i've used before: Jesuit
> priests would
>>> secretly baptize Wendat children dying of small pox when
> their parents
>>> weren't looking.When they were caught doing it, parents were
> horrified and
>>> threw the priests out of the longhouses in fear that priests
> were now
>>> finishing their children off with witchcraft and mumbling
> strange curses.
>>> Its possible BOTH parents and priests deeply cared for the
> dying ones,
>>> but these priests were strange newcomers, and were acting
> out of line.
>>> Even if they wrote happily in their journals about how they
> saved dying
>>> children from hell that day...    to my own people they
> acted wrongly.
>>>
>>> Language is their vehicle for conversion of people to their
> own paradigm.
>>> Wycliffe wants to "reduce" all earths languages to writing
> so that people
>>> can read the Christian Bible in their own language. Its
> inherent with many
>>> Christian beliefs that when "all have heard"   Christ will
> return to
>>> earth.
>>> All this passion of foreigners coming to save souls
> from "sin" and
>>> hellfire
>>> and convert the lost to a middle-eastern based paradigm has
> a cost
>>> and weakens alot of  very important traditions of our people
>>> but strangely enough it has one bright side. Languages are
> preserved and
>>> even some pretty complicated thought is recorded.
>>>
>>> I guess maybe i'm trying to be positive,
>>>
>>> Richard Zane Smith
>>> Wyandotte Oklahoma
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/5/08 11:06 AM, "Richard LaFortune"
> <anguksuar at YAHOO.COM> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I forwarded this earlier to Rudy and rec'd a response.
>>>>  Some people would assert that some evangelical
>>>> translations efforts have advanced applied
>>>> -not theoretical- linguistics...except First Speakers
>>>> are required for applied fieldwork and other tasks of
>>>> science.  And the early and emerging information about
>>>> these outfits over the past couple of decades
>>>> convincingly alleges that these reactionary
>>>> denominational translators were all about neutalizing
>>>> (and you can interpret that word in its most sobering
>>>> sense) the very people who were first speakers,
>>>> because of fights over natural and political
>>>> resources.  There is no valid argument for any
>>>> government surveillance that wipes out a quarter
>>>> million Native first speakers; there is no balance in
>>>> which a list of languages outweighs the lives of
>>>> sovereign people in our ancestral domains by force of
>>>> violence.  My own family are leading heirarchy in one
>>>> of the minority evangelical denominations in North
>>>> America, so I know from missions; and I'm a Native
>>>> person whose lineage is straght-up medicine people as
>>>> well.  I was raised not to express an opinion unless
>>>> it was considered and useful in some way.  But
>>>> that's...
>>>>
>>>> Just an opinion
>>>> Anguksuar (Richard LaFortune)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> A lot of people in the field disagree with you Rudy-
>>>>> with all due respect- folks from the aeryies of the
>>>>> Academy, to the corn fields and jungles where SIL
>>>> and
>>>>> New Tribes Mission have operated over the decades.
>>>>> This includes people who have spoken to me
>>>> anecdotally
>>>>> and have no particular political axes to grind.
>>>>>
>>>>> I suggest interested people on ILAT take a look at
>>>>> "Thy Will Be Done:  The Conquest of the Amazon :
>>>>> Nelson Rockefeller and Evangelism in the Age of Oi";
>>>>> and "The Missionaries", by Norman Lewis.  To use the
>>>>> phrase 'without substantiation' suggests that a
>>>> great
>>>>> deal of scholarship and actual substantiation from
>>>>> international government agencies, to personal
>>>>> communications by people of regard.  Who cares if
>>>> they
>>>>> have done important things in linguistics - Hitler
>>>>> built nice highways.
>>>>> Richard
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
> ________________________________________________________________
> ______________
>>>> ______
>>>> Be a better friend, newshound, and
>>>> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.
>>>> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG.
>>> Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.7/1410 - Release
> Date: 5/1/2008
>>> 5:30 PM
>>>
>>
>>
> ---------End of Included Message----------
>
> Anthony K. Webster, Ph.D.
> Department of Anthropology &
> Native American Studies Minor
> Southern Illinois University
> Mail Code 4502
> Carbondale, IL 62901-4502
> 618-453-5027
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.7/1410 - Release Date: 5/1/2008 
> 5:30 PM
> 


From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Tue May  6 17:23:23 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 10:23:23 -0700
Subject: OHA awards $5,000 grant (fwd link)
Message-ID: <TUE.6.MAY.2008.102323.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Tuesday, May 6, 2008
OHA awards $5,000 grant

Ka Haka `Ula O Ke`elikolani College of Hawaiian Language at the University of
Hawaii at Hilo has been awarded a $50,000 grant from the Office of Hawaiian
Affairs to promote language proficiency in elementary school children.

Access full article below:
http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080506/BREAKING01/80506002/-1/LOCALNEWSFRONT


From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Tue May  6 17:26:37 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 10:26:37 -0700
Subject: Yup'ik voters want help at polls (fwd link)
Message-ID: <TUE.6.MAY.2008.102637.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Yup'ik voters want help at polls

INJUNCTION: Bethel residents, others say state must do more.

By ANNE SUTTON
The Associated Press

Published: May 6th, 2008 01:24 AM
Last Modified: May 6th, 2008 01:38 AM
The Anchorage Daily News

JUNEAU -- Residents of Bethel and five Kuskokwim River villages are asking a
federal court to order more effective elections assistance for Yup'ik-speaking
voters.

The Native American Rights Fund and the American Civil Liberties Union filed for
a preliminary injunction on behalf of the plaintiffs in an Anchorage district
court on Monday.

They are asking state and local elections officials to ensure that bilingual
staff are available at the polls to assist voters and translate ballots and
elections materials into Yup'ik for the August primary.

Access full article below:
http://www.adn.com/western_alaska/story/397303.html


From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Tue May  6 17:30:37 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 10:30:37 -0700
Subject: Lessons from the Amazon (fwd link)
Message-ID: <TUE.6.MAY.2008.103037.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

May 6, 2008

Lessons from the Amazon
Chief inspires Toronto students

By BEN SPENCER, SUN MEDIA

Pass him by in the street and Tashka Yawanawa probably wouldn't draw a second
look.

But at his home, deep within the heart of Amazon, he is a king -- well, a chief
anyway.

Rightly so. The native leader almost single-handedly brought the Yawanawa tribe
back from the brink of extinction.

At just 28, he was thrust into the position of chief after a tribal leader had a
vision that he could turn the ailing people around.

That he did. After the tribe's population dwindled to just 220 in 1992, more
than 620 now call the Yawanawa community home.

Access full article below:
http://www.torontosun.com/News/TorontoAndGTA/2008/05/06/5481766-sun.html


From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Tue May  6 17:33:57 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 10:33:57 -0700
Subject: Hi-tech approach to language development (fwd link)
Message-ID: <TUE.6.MAY.2008.103357.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Hi-tech approach to language development
China.org.cn

When Tashi Tserang was a graduate student at the University of Virginia in the
United States four years ago, there was nothing he loved more than chatting on
MSN with his friends in his native Yunnan province.

Their conversation was mostly in the Tibetan language, but, much to Tashi's
frustration, not all of his friends could take part at the same time - they
were all using different software to input the Tibetan language, which led to
problems with compatibility.

Access full article below:
http://www.china.org.cn/china/sci_tech/2008-05/06/content_15075065.htm


From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Tue May  6 17:37:01 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 10:37:01 -0700
Subject: How Hebrew was (and continues to be) transformed into a modern
 language (fwd link)
Message-ID: <TUE.6.MAY.2008.103701.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

05.05.08
Word Choice

How Hebrew was (and continues to be) transformed into a modern language
Reported by Daniel Estrin

Sixty years ago this week, the modern state of Israel was born. Since then,
thousands, and ultimately millions, of Jews have adopted Hebrew as their
primary language, despite the fact that their ancestors stopped speaking it
nearly two thousand years earlier. Linguists say it is the most successful
instance yet of a ?dead? language?s revival.

Access full article below:
http://www.nextbook.org/cultural/feature.html?id=828&page=comments


From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Tue May  6 17:39:38 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 10:39:38 -0700
Subject: Preserving the spoken word focus of linguistics project (fwd link)
Message-ID: <TUE.6.MAY.2008.103938.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Preserving the spoken word focus of linguistics project

By Lee Shearer   |   lee.shearer at onlineathens.com   |   Story updated at 12:10
AM on Saturday, May 3, 2008

University of Georgia English professor William Kretzschmar suspects there's
been some sort of English influence in Winder.

He's heard people from the Barrow County town use the British word "boot" for
what most Americans call the "trunk" of their car.

It's the kind of inexplicable linguistic quirk that Kretzschmar runs across
frequently in his work.

Kretzschmar is director of the Linguistic Atlas Project, which is really a
series of studies dating back to the 1930s on how Americans use everyday
language.

Access full article below:
http://www.onlineathens.com/stories/050308/uganews_2008050300785.shtml


From CMcMillan at WVC.EDU  Tue May  6 18:01:01 2008
From: CMcMillan at WVC.EDU (McMillan, Carol)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 11:01:01 -0700
Subject: Crossing the Pacific
In-Reply-To: A<B8D25E496AE11C4CA73743EBCA26DF7D056E1C@acraserv1.acra.local>
Message-ID: <TUE.6.MAY.2008.110101.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Fascinating.  Can't believe I haven't heard of this.  Thanks so much.

No mention of Rapa Nui, but it would explain the physical appearance of Easter Islanders.  Their language and culture are definitely of Polynesian, but there are also many South American influences (as in the stonework of their platforms or ahus.) Very interesting.

Carol 

-----Original Message-----
From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Daryn McKenny
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 5:47 PM
To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: Re: [ILAT] Crossing the Pacific

Hi,

I am sure you have all seen this article then, it is an old one:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/430944.stm

I have just attended ILATC and I just felt like I was at home, an amazing place with amazing people on amazing country, just like home. I know we are related, Aboriginal people connect with Aboriginal people.

But,we must have had really big trees to make our bark canoes back then though.


Regards
?
Daryn McKenny
?
Arwarbukarl Cultural Resource Association Inc.

Read our Indigenous Language BLOG at http://www.arwarbukarl.net.au/blog/
?


-----Original Message-----
From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of McMillan, Carol
Sent: Tuesday, 6 May 2008 6:11 AM
To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: [ILAT] Crossing the Pacific

   As a biological anthropologist by training, and being wary of the European penchant for wanting to have "discovered" everything, and having read that even geneticists now say that the aboriginal peoples of Australia had to have had boats at least 40,000 years ago, and having looked at the people of Rapa Nui (Easter Island) vs. other Pacific Islanders, and hearing about the Hawaiian sailing canoes that have recently traveled to Alaska and returned, (and . . . and . . . ) I believe it's time for us all to admit that indigenous people have been traveling by sea for many thousands of years, back and forth between continents.  I'm growing a bit weary of all the who-came-first debates.
Perhaps it's all worth it if European and European-decent scholars in general become less ethnocentric in their world views.  (I'm Scottish, I can say that.)  Maybe the debate shouldn't be about who had the technology and ability to cross large bodies of water, but who was motivated to do it in order to rape/pillage/plunder vs. those who went to trade and/or visit with others.  That focus might put Columbus and others into categories more appropriate to their conduct.

Sorry, I just had to weigh in here.

Carol McMillan


From wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU  Tue May  6 19:02:53 2008
From: wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU (William J Poser)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 15:02:53 -0400
Subject: re SIL
In-Reply-To: <1210083609-20319.00036.00529-smmsdV2.1.6@saluki-mailhub.siu.edu>
Message-ID: <TUE.6.MAY.2008.150253.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

A further detail on "Jehovah" is that in our Jewish tradition this
name, written YHWH in Hebrew, may not be pronounced. Whenever it is
encountered in the text of the "Old Testament", it is pronounced
"adonai", which means "lord". (In Modern Hebrew "adon" is "Mister".)
YHWH is what in some cultures is called a "war name" or "secret name",
knowledge of which gives power of that individual.

Bill Poser


From anguksuar at YAHOO.COM  Tue May  6 23:29:51 2008
From: anguksuar at YAHOO.COM (Richard LaFortune)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 16:29:51 -0700
Subject: Norman Lewis
In-Reply-To: <004d01c8af82$456b0530$b3b6a8c0@hgc>
Message-ID: <TUE.6.MAY.2008.162951.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

The point also included writing by Norman Lewis (The
Missionaries, 1988), so it isn't based on single
source material. He is accounted as one of the finest
writers of the past century, and he included numerous
references that echo concerns of other humane
thinkers.  See p.242 w a reference to the 13 Mar 1987
denunciation by the UN and OAS about SIL's illegal
entry to VZ.  So actually the United Nations has
weighed in on the matter for the record.
Mark Abley's book "Spoken Here" (2003) references SIL,
and asserts 'its motives are open to question.'
(p.238). 
You can say any argument is weak, but leading thinkers
and writers say otherwise.  Maybe the organization is
different today; one would hope and pray so.
peace!
Richard (Yupiit Nation)

--- Dave Pearson <dave_pearson at SIL.ORG> wrote:

> Richard,
> 
> I have never found accusations based on
> guilt-by-association
> (SIL-NTM-Rockerfeller-CIA etc.) to be convincing.
> Your addition of Hitler to
> the list (below) simply weakens an already feeble
> argument. In any case,
> even if there were truth in these accusations
> there's nothing I or anybody
> else can do about the SIL of 40 or 50 years ago.
> Incidentally, Pullum's
> recent obituary of Derbyshire
> (http://www.linguistlist.org/issues/19/19-1.html )
> is a sobering reality
> check of the period. 
> 
> The fact that current criticism is based upon events
> of a previous century
> is a testimony to the SIL of today. As an ardent
> supporter of human rights
> in general and indigenous rights in particular I can
> assure you that the
> organisation that you describe is not one that I
> would be willing to join.
> 
> At some point I'll post a report on the half-day
> debate on indigenous
> languages held last month at the UN Permanent Forum
> on Indigenous Issues. 
> 
> Dave Pearson, SIL International



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ


From fmarmole at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Wed May  7 01:06:51 2008
From: fmarmole at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (Francisco Marmolejo)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 18:06:51 -0700
Subject: FW: OFI Workshops at Congress 2008/OFI Ateliers au Congress de
 2008
Message-ID: <TUE.6.MAY.2008.180651.0700.>

FYI.

Saludos,

Francisco

 

 

Francisco Marmolejo

Executive Director

Consortium for North American Higher Education Collaboration

CONAHEC - University of Arizona

PO Box 210300

220 W. Sixth Street

Tucson, AZ 85721-0300 USA

Tel. (520) 621-9080 / 621-7761

Fax (520) 626-2675

Email:  <mailto:fmarmole at email.arizona.edu> fmarmole at email.arizona.edu

 <http://conahec.org/> http://conahec.org

 

cid:image001.jpg at 01C7AF30.82AF8360

 

Francisco Marmolejo

Assistant Vice President for Western Hemispheric Programs

University of Arizona

PO Box 210158

888 N. Euclid Ave. / University Services Bldg.

Tucson, AZ 85721 USA

Tel. (520) 626-4258

Fax (520) 621-6011

Email:  <mailto:fmarmole at email.arizona.edu> fmarmole at email.arizona.edu

http://www.whp.arizona.edu

 

cid:image002.gif at 01C7AF30.82AF8360   

 

From: Sebastien Levesque [mailto:sebastien.levesque at CAPP.ULAVAL.CA] 
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 10:43 AM
To: POLCAN at LISTES.ULAVAL.CA
Subject: OFI Workshops at Congress 2008/OFI Ateliers au Congress de 2008

 

From: Jodi Bruhn [jbruhn at iog.ca]

"Aboriginal Research and Policy: Understanding the Challenges of M?tis,
Non-Status Indians and Urban Aboriginal Peoples" Workshops at the Congress
of the Humanities and Social Sciences, Vancouver, British Columbia

Thursday, June 5th, 2008

First Nations Longhouse,

1985 West Mall, University of British Columbia

At Congress 2008, the Aboriginal Policy Research Network of the Office of
the Federal Interlocutor for M?tis and Non-Status Indians is partnering with
the Canadian Federation for the Humanities and Social Sciences to hold two
workshops on research and policy relevant to M?tis,non-status Indians and
urban Aboriginal peoples.  These workshops, which will involve both research
presentations and dialogue among researchers and community members to
explore the issues raised by the research in greater depth, will encourage
scholars to explore a wide range of issues relevant to Aboriginal peoples
and policy-makers.  Each session will last three and a half hours, one in
the morning and one in the afternoon.  The Institute On Governance will
prepare a report on these sessions and publish it on its website.    

 

Workshop #1 - Increasing the social and economic inclusion of M?tis,
Non-Status Indians and urban Aboriginal people  

9 AM - 12:30 PM

"An Overview of the Latest Findings from the Census and Labour Force

Survey: Understanding the Challenges of M?tis, Non-Status Indians and Urban
Aboriginal Peoples"

Andrew Siggner (Siggner & Associates, on behalf of the Office of the Federal
Interlocutor for M?tis and Non-Status Indians) 

"The Well-Being of Communities with Significant M?tis Population in Canada" 

Russell Lapointe, Sacha Sen?cal and Eric Guimond (Indian and Northern
Affairs Canada)

"Indigenous Voices: The Probe Research Survey of Aboriginal People in
Manitoba" 

Christopher Adams (Probe Research) 

"Thoughts on M?tis Economic Development" 

Gregg Dahl (Office of the Federal Interlocutor for M?tis and Non-Status

Indians) 

"Improving Urban Aboriginal Health: Indigenous Knowledge, Collaborative
Research and Urban Marginalization"

Denielle Elliot (UBC), Archie Myran (Vancouver Native Health Society) and
Marian Krawczyk

 

Workshop #2 - Challenges of preserving Aboriginal identities, new governance
arrangements and strategies to increase the engagement of Aboriginal people
in political and civic life in culturally diverse urban communities 

1:30 PM - 5 PM

" 'A Rather Vexed Question...': The Federal-Provincial Debate over the
Constitutional Responsibility for M?tis Scrip"

Nicole O'Byrne (Victoria)

"Is Aboriginal Self-Government Possible in Highly Diverse Cities?"

Bradford Morse (Ottawa)

"Urban Aboriginal Self-Governance in Ottawa, Winnipeg, and Vancouver:

Trends, Problems, and Perspectives" 

Julie Tomiak (Carleton)

"Care, Identity and Inclusion in Pluralist Societies: Examining the Policy
Implications For and From Aboriginal People" 

Paul Kershaw (UBC)

"The BC M?tis Mapping Initiative: Towards Establishing Long-term Aboriginal
Community / University Relationships" 

Michael Evans (UBC) and Dean Trumbley (M?tis Nation of British

Columbia) 

The sessions are open to everyone - day passes are $15 each and are
available for purchase each day at the Congress Registration desks in the
Student Union Building at UBC. The number of day passes available is
limited, as Congress events are first and foremost intended for the benefit
of members of associations meeting at the Congress, i.e.

registered Congress delegates.  A number of day passes will be set aside for
those who identify themselves at the registration desk as participants in
the Aboriginal Policy Research Network workshops but, in order to avoid
disappointment, pick up your day pass early.  

For those who would like to attend the Congress, registration information is
available at
<http://www.fedcan.ca/congress2008/registration/registration.html>
http://www.fedcan.ca/congress2008/registration/registration.html. Further
information on the Congress is available at
<http://www.fedcan.ca/congress2008/> http://www.fedcan.ca/congress2008/.  A
map of the University of British Columbia map is available at
<http://www.maps.ubc.ca/PROD/images/pdf/ubcmap.pdf>
http://www.maps.ubc.ca/PROD/images/pdf/ubcmap.pdf. 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------

? Recherche et politiques autochtones : comprendre les d?fis des M?tis, des
Indiens non inscrits et des Autochtones vivant en milieu urbain ?

-

ateliers du Congr?es de la F?d?ration canadienne des sciences humaines,
Vancouver, Colombie-Britannique

Le jeudi 5 juin 2008

First Nations Longhouse,

1985 West Mall, Universit? de la Colombie-Britannique

Au Congr?s de 2008, le R?seau de recherche sur les politiques autochtones du
Bureau de l'Interlocuteur f?d?ral aupr?s des M?tis et des Indiens non
inscrits forge un partenariat avec la F?d?ration canadienne des sciences
humaines pour organiser deux ateliers sur la recherche et les politiques
int?ressant les M?tis, les Indiens non inscrits et les Autochtones vivant en
milieu urbain. Ces ateliers, qui comporteront des pr?sentations sur les
recherches et le dialogue entre les chercheurs et les membres des
communaut?s, examineront plus exhaustivement les questions soulev?es par la
recherche et encourageront les chercheurs ? se pencher sur une vaste gamme
de dossiers pertinents aux peuples autochtones et aux responsables des
politiques. Chaque s?ance du matin et de l'apr?s-midi durera trois heures et
demie.

 

Atelier no1 - Accro?tre l'inclusion sociale et ?conomique des M?tis, des
Indiens non inscrits et des Autochtones vivant en milieu urbain 

De 9 h ? 12 h 30

Aper?u des plus r?cents r?sultats du recensement et de l'enqu?te sur la
population active : comprendre les d?fis des M?tis, des Indiens non inscrits
et des Autochtones vivant en milieu urbain Andrew Siggner (Siggner &
Associates, au nom du Bureau de l'Interlocuteur f?d?ral aupr?s des M?tis et
des Indiens non

inscrits) 

Le bien-?tre des communaut?s ayant une importante population m?tisse au
Canada Russell Lapointe, Sacha Sen?cal et Eric Guimond (Affaires indiennes
et du Nord Canada)

Voix autochtones : l'enqu?te de recherche Probe sur les peuples autochtones
du Manitoba Christopher Adams (Probe Research) 

R?flexions sur le d?veloppement ?conomique des M?tis Gregg Dahl (Bureau de
l'Interlocuteur f?d?ral aupr?s des M?tis et des Indiens non inscrits) 

Am?liorer la sant? des Autochtones urbains : connaissances autochtones,
recherche en collaboration et marginalisation urbaine Denielle Elliot (UBC),
Archie Myran et Marian Krawczyk

 

Atelier no 2 - Les d?fis de la pr?servation des identit?s autochtones,
nouveaux arrangements et strat?gies de gouvernance pour accro?tre la
participation des peuples autochtones ? la vie politique et culturelle dans
des communaut?s urbaines culturellement diverses 

De 13 h 30 ? 17 h

? Une question plut?t vexatoire...? : le d?bat f?d?ral-provincial entourant
la responsabilit? constitutionnelles pour les textes des M?tis

Nicole O'Byrne (Victoria)

L'autonomie gouvernementale autochtone est-elle possible dans des villes
tr?s diversifi?es?

Bradford Morse (Ottawa)

L'autonomie gouvernementale autochtone urbaine ? Ottawa, Winnipeg et
Vancouver : tendances, probl?mes et perspectives Julie Tomiak (Carleton)

Soins, identit? et inclusion dans les soci?t?s pluralistes : examiner les
cons?quences strat?giques pour les Autochtones et de leur part Paul Kershaw
(UBC)

L'initiative cartographique m?tisse en Colombie-Britannique : vers
l'?tablissement de relations ? long terme entre la communaut? autochtone et
l'universit? Michael Evans (UBC) et Dean Trumbley (Nation des M?tis de la

Colombie-Britannique) 

 

Tous peuvent participer aux ateliers; le droit d'entr?e est de 15 $ par
atelier, lequel peut ?tre achet? ? chaque jour aux tables d'inscription au
Congr?s au Student Union Building de l'universit? de la
Colombie-Britannique. Le nombre de place est limit? puisque les activit?s du
Congr?s visent principalement les int?r?ts des membres des associations se
r?unissant lors du Congr?s, c'est-?-dire les d?l?gu?s inscrits au Congr?s.
Un certain nombre de droits d'entr?e seront r?serv?s pour celles et pour
ceux qui s'autoidentifient ? la table d'inscription comme participants aux
ateliers du R?seau de recherche sur les politiques autochtones, mais pour ne
pas ?tre d?sappoint?, prenez votre droit d'entr?e t?t ? chaque jour.  

Pour celles et ceux qui souhaitent participer au Congr?s, les renseignements
pour l'inscription se trouvent ?
<http://www.fedcan.ca/congress2008/registration/registration.html>
http://www.fedcan.ca/congress2008/registration/registration.html. 

D'autres renseignements sur le Congr?s sont pr?sent?s ?
<http://www.fedcan.ca/congress2008/> http://www.fedcan.ca/congress2008/.  Un
plan de l'universit? de la Colombie-Britannique se trouve ?
<http://www.maps.ubc.ca/PROD/images/pdf/ubcmap.pdf>
http://www.maps.ubc.ca/PROD/images/pdf/ubcmap.pdf. 

Jodi Bruhn, PhD

Senior Researcher / Chercheure principale

Institute On Governance / Institut sur la gouvernance

122, rue Clarence Street

Ottawa ON  K1N 5P6

Tel./T?l: 613-562-0092 #232

Fax/T?l?copieur: 613-562-0097

 <mailto:jbruhn at iog.ca> jbruhn at iog.ca 

 <http://www.iog.ca/> www.iog.ca

 

_________ 

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From phonosemantics at EARTHLINK.NET  Wed May  7 04:39:16 2008
From: phonosemantics at EARTHLINK.NET (jess tauber)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 00:39:16 -0400
Subject: Nez Perce linguistics
Message-ID: <WED.7.MAY.2008.003916.0400.PHONOSEMANTICS@EARTHLINK.NET>

I've been looking through the Aoki et al. dictionary (don't have the grammar on hand but can get to it next week). Verbs are mainly divided into two sets. It's beginning to look as if Aoki's VS set is more about fine, high control activities etc. (the things apparently normally encoded by high tone in Niger Congo languages), though admittedly it will take me a day to compile all the forms. The VC set, on the other hand, seems more about less controlled or finely grained or focused activities (low tone in N-C).

Neighboring Salishan languages are overtly marked for verbal control- is Sahaptian generally recognized to have similar marking, including what I seem to be seeing as above in N.P.? I'm also curious, if this is so, how such marking interacts with vowel harmony, root consonant makeup, aug/dim shifting, and choice of thematic/instrument prefixes.

Has anyone written about this? Thanks.

Jess Tauber
phonosemantics at earthlink.net


From jcrippen at GMAIL.COM  Wed May  7 05:43:19 2008
From: jcrippen at GMAIL.COM (James Crippen)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 19:43:19 -1000
Subject: Learning to speak Tlingit
In-Reply-To: <3966a24c0805052132w4682c35bsf85a305ece0cb40a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.6.MAY.2008.194319.1000.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

2008/5/5 Jordan Lachler <jordanlachler at gmail.com>:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1nPCGpQ86w

Goos? w? Ling?t y?o xh'at?ngi, w?i video t?ox'? Ch'u tleix' "Ling?t"
xh'axhwa.axhch khu.aa. The video is a disappointment in the end
because other than using the word "Ling?t" to index "Tlingitness",
there's no Tlingit language spoken. None at all. Not even "Y?i ?y? haa
y?o xh'at?ngi" or something like it as an introduction.

The video does make a great point, however, one that bothers me a lot.
In my personal experience talking to the various people working in
Tlingit revitalization, there's lots of effort put into learning words
for *things*, but not learning how to actually express meaning. This
is partly because of the complexity of the language (it's really hard
to learn!), partly because its grammar is still not well described
(I'm working as hard as I can!), and partly because of the existing
focus on teaching words and phrases rather than communicative ability
(TPR is not the solution!).

But I fear that this issue will fly over the heads of the people who
it's for, in that they *won't* start to think about how they're
learning to talk. Instead, they'll see this video as reinforcing that
the words and set phrases they've learned is really a sign that
they're using the language.

"I can say the names of all the berries in Tlingit." "I can say 'we
are cutting fish' in Tlingit." But can you say "I don't want to go and
pick berries right now. Instead I want to stay home and watch TV
because my feet hurt" in Tlingit? [1] Why not? What matters more to
you?

People gain lots of pride and empowerment from learning a language,
but then go on to use it only as an occasional token of identity.
People speak the language, but they don't try to speak *in* the
language. They learn lots of words and phrases and such, but don't
ever learn how to even have a basic conversation about something as
dull as what they did last week. The language becomes a mere tool,
nothing any more ornamental than a button blanket. It doesn't get used
out in a boat to ward off the cold, it doesn't get used to pad a rock
for sitting on, it doesn't get used to wipe the steam off of a window.
Instead it only gets taken out for ceremonial occasions, treated
gently and with great respect. It only gets used to say "look here I'm
Tlingit" when the people with money and power are looking, and is
otherwise shoved back in a box for the next time someone needs to show
it off.

The language isn't just some dead at.?owu passed on from elders to be
cherished as a valuable artifact. It's the very life of being, it's
the xh'as?ikw of the people. Who cares if it gets used for
introductions in a political speech? Who cares if it gets used at an
immersion camp that cost tens of thousands of dollars to arrange and
only brought twenty people? What really matters is if it gets used in
the kitchen while making dinner, or at the store while buying
potatoes, or in the car while driving to work. It needs to live, not
be some dusty old mask in a box that people only take out to prove
their lineage and status.

My point is that an endangered language like Tlingit isn't just a sign
to index political and social alignment, it's a living thing that
deserves to be used, deserves to have our breath pass through it. If
we're supposed to be revitalizing a language, that means really saying
things with it rather than saying things *about* it. And if people are
going to say things with it, then they need to really learn how to
speak and not just how to read phrases from a book.

I hear the same refrain over and over from people that revitalization
costs too much, that there's just not enough support for it, or that
it takes too much time to really learn to talk. Too often people focus
on how to get money for a project, where the money should come from,
who should control the money, who should control the people who
control the money, ad nauseam. But revitalization shouldn't cost
anything at all. If the language is important enough to save then
people ought to be willing to put their own free time into keeping it
alive, and not worrying about who's going to get the government
cheese. It's not about how to look good, or to gain prestige or power
or money. Revitalization is really about learning to speak the
language because you care about it, because you love it and you love
the people who speak it, and you want to keep that alive. There's no
other reason necessary. Politics, identity, postcolonialism,
education, government, autonomy, history, none of that other crap
matters except for how to get around it so you can get on with keeping
the language spoken.

Y?i ?y? axh toow?.
J?iwsh

[1]: To be fair, here's my attempt: Axh xh'?s' yan?ekw y?a yakyee. ?ch
?w?, tl?il axh toow?a sig?o khukkhwak'eet'. N?ilx' y?i xhat natee, TV
kkhwalateen.


From iackerman at ROSETTASTONE.COM  Wed May  7 12:58:55 2008
From: iackerman at ROSETTASTONE.COM (Ackerman, Ilse)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 08:58:55 -0400
Subject: Crossing the Pacific
In-Reply-To: A<1129FD8A7A8E0D418E469D28C1700AFB4397E3@ad-ex-wvcmail.wvc.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.7.MAY.2008.085855.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

 

Has anyone heard of Roland Stevenson?  I met him in Brazil, a Chilean painter. He found support for Pacific crossing from a portrait artist's perspective, by drawing South American and Pacific faces.  I remember drawings of the Pacific --> South America travel routes he had derived.  There is a book out of that work, called Uma Luz nos Mist?rios Amaz?nicos. I don't know how it was received.

 

~ i

 

Ilse Ackerman

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of McMillan, Carol
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 2:01 PM
To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: Re: [ILAT] Crossing the Pacific

 

Fascinating.  Can't believe I haven't heard of this.  Thanks so much.

 

No mention of Rapa Nui, but it would explain the physical appearance of Easter Islanders.  Their language and culture are definitely of Polynesian, but there are also many South American influences (as in the stonework of their platforms or ahus.) Very interesting.

 

Carol 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Daryn McKenny

Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 5:47 PM

To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU

Subject: Re: [ILAT] Crossing the Pacific

 

Hi,

 

I am sure you have all seen this article then, it is an old one:

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/430944.stm

 

I have just attended ILATC and I just felt like I was at home, an amazing place with amazing people on amazing country, just like home. I know we are related, Aboriginal people connect with Aboriginal people.

 

But,we must have had really big trees to make our bark canoes back then though.

 

 

Regards

 

Daryn McKenny

 

Arwarbukarl Cultural Resource Association Inc.

 

Read our Indigenous Language BLOG at http://www.arwarbukarl.net.au/blog/

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of McMillan, Carol

Sent: Tuesday, 6 May 2008 6:11 AM

To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU

Subject: [ILAT] Crossing the Pacific

 

   As a biological anthropologist by training, and being wary of the European penchant for wanting to have "discovered" everything, and having read that even geneticists now say that the aboriginal peoples of Australia had to have had boats at least 40,000 years ago, and having looked at the people of Rapa Nui (Easter Island) vs. other Pacific Islanders, and hearing about the Hawaiian sailing canoes that have recently traveled to Alaska and returned, (and . . . and . . . ) I believe it's time for us all to admit that indigenous people have been traveling by sea for many thousands of years, back and forth between continents.  I'm growing a bit weary of all the who-came-first debates.

Perhaps it's all worth it if European and European-decent scholars in general become less ethnocentric in their world views.  (I'm Scottish, I can say that.)  Maybe the debate shouldn't be about who had the technology and ability to cross large bodies of water, but who was motivated to do it in order to rape/pillage/plunder vs. those who went to trade and/or visit with others.  That focus might put Columbus and others into categories more appropriate to their conduct.

 

Sorry, I just had to weigh in here.

 

Carol McMillan

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From rzs at WILDBLUE.NET  Wed May  7 15:43:11 2008
From: rzs at WILDBLUE.NET (Richard Smith)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 08:43:11 -0700
Subject: re SIL
In-Reply-To: <20080506190253.733B7B2469@lorax.ldc.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.7.MAY.2008.084311.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

thanks for this Bill,
I admit i'm not a trained linguist though i'm having to learn quickly
the wierd  "language of linguists"    (((gag-yuck)))
i'm only a Wyandot tribal member on a path towards our own language
revitalization-recovery,
however even this study has given me new insights into  "word"
and how  "word" evolves meaning as it travels from its origins.
Tracing the spread of Buddhism from India through China into Japan
parallels Judeo-Christianity spreading far from its Mediterranean mooring.
 
To see a Reservation church with a baptismal (stock) tank and walls painted
with date palms,made to simulate (a mythically sparkling clear) Jordan River
 ...amazing

To read the novel-based Siddhartha and then to see the same one represented
as the gold surrounded cubby smiling Buddha in China  is
 ...amazing

To see a smiling portrait of blue-eyed blonde Jesus (the rabbi Yeshua)
surrounded by the earths laughing children of every ethnicity is
...amazing

I imagine if the story of our Wendat "PeaceMaker" had gone and spread into
Europe we Longhouse people would see similar evolution and be thinking wow
 ...amazing

Richard Zane Smith
Wyandotte Oklahoma



On 5/6/08 12:02 PM, "William J Poser" <wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU> wrote:

> A further detail on "Jehovah" is that in our Jewish tradition this
> name, written YHWH in Hebrew, may not be pronounced. Whenever it is
> encountered in the text of the "Old Testament", it is pronounced
> "adonai", which means "lord". (In Modern Hebrew "adon" is "Mister".)
> YHWH is what in some cultures is called a "war name" or "secret name",
> knowledge of which gives power of that individual.
> 
> Bill Poser


From rzs at WILDBLUE.NET  Wed May  7 16:11:36 2008
From: rzs at WILDBLUE.NET (Richard Smith)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 09:11:36 -0700
Subject: Learning to speak Tlingit
In-Reply-To: <caf8a68a0805062243r49fed66arbea5259c6e97160c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <WED.7.MAY.2008.091136.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

James,
This was a fantastic post, and you put it in such good words.
this concerns me alot and I WHOLEHEARTEDLY agree.
To survive our languages need to be used when giving a sacred prayer
OR asking for bug repellent while scratching a mosquito bite.

I'm seeing some native languages already
being pulled out and dusted off ONLY for sacred ceremony
Reduced to an equivalent of Catholic Latin prayers.

Some can give a prayer or a blessing at the right time
but might not actually be able to say
    "My feet hurt"

Richard Zane Smith
Wyandotte Oklahoma


On 5/6/08 10:43 PM, "James Crippen" <jcrippen at GMAIL.COM> wrote:

> 2008/5/5 Jordan Lachler <jordanlachler at gmail.com>:
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1nPCGpQ86w
> 
> Goos? w? Ling?t y?o xh'at?ngi, w?i video t?ox'? Ch'u tleix' "Ling?t"
> xh'axhwa.axhch khu.aa. The video is a disappointment in the end
> because other than using the word "Ling?t" to index "Tlingitness",
> there's no Tlingit language spoken. None at all. Not even "Y?i ?y? haa
> y?o xh'at?ngi" or something like it as an introduction.
> 
> The video does make a great point, however, one that bothers me a lot.
> In my personal experience talking to the various people working in
> Tlingit revitalization, there's lots of effort put into learning words
> for *things*, but not learning how to actually express meaning. This
> is partly because of the complexity of the language (it's really hard
> to learn!), partly because its grammar is still not well described
> (I'm working as hard as I can!), and partly because of the existing
> focus on teaching words and phrases rather than communicative ability
> (TPR is not the solution!).
> 
> But I fear that this issue will fly over the heads of the people who
> it's for, in that they *won't* start to think about how they're
> learning to talk. Instead, they'll see this video as reinforcing that
> the words and set phrases they've learned is really a sign that
> they're using the language.
> 
> "I can say the names of all the berries in Tlingit." "I can say 'we
> are cutting fish' in Tlingit." But can you say "I don't want to go and
> pick berries right now. Instead I want to stay home and watch TV
> because my feet hurt" in Tlingit? [1] Why not? What matters more to
> you?
> 
> People gain lots of pride and empowerment from learning a language,
> but then go on to use it only as an occasional token of identity.
> People speak the language, but they don't try to speak *in* the
> language. They learn lots of words and phrases and such, but don't
> ever learn how to even have a basic conversation about something as
> dull as what they did last week. The language becomes a mere tool,
> nothing any more ornamental than a button blanket. It doesn't get used
> out in a boat to ward off the cold, it doesn't get used to pad a rock
> for sitting on, it doesn't get used to wipe the steam off of a window.
> Instead it only gets taken out for ceremonial occasions, treated
> gently and with great respect. It only gets used to say "look here I'm
> Tlingit" when the people with money and power are looking, and is
> otherwise shoved back in a box for the next time someone needs to show
> it off.
> 
> The language isn't just some dead at.?owu passed on from elders to be
> cherished as a valuable artifact. It's the very life of being, it's
> the xh'as?ikw of the people. Who cares if it gets used for
> introductions in a political speech? Who cares if it gets used at an
> immersion camp that cost tens of thousands of dollars to arrange and
> only brought twenty people? What really matters is if it gets used in
> the kitchen while making dinner, or at the store while buying
> potatoes, or in the car while driving to work. It needs to live, not
> be some dusty old mask in a box that people only take out to prove
> their lineage and status.
> 
> My point is that an endangered language like Tlingit isn't just a sign
> to index political and social alignment, it's a living thing that
> deserves to be used, deserves to have our breath pass through it. If
> we're supposed to be revitalizing a language, that means really saying
> things with it rather than saying things *about* it. And if people are
> going to say things with it, then they need to really learn how to
> speak and not just how to read phrases from a book.
> 
> I hear the same refrain over and over from people that revitalization
> costs too much, that there's just not enough support for it, or that
> it takes too much time to really learn to talk. Too often people focus
> on how to get money for a project, where the money should come from,
> who should control the money, who should control the people who
> control the money, ad nauseam. But revitalization shouldn't cost
> anything at all. If the language is important enough to save then
> people ought to be willing to put their own free time into keeping it
> alive, and not worrying about who's going to get the government
> cheese. It's not about how to look good, or to gain prestige or power
> or money. Revitalization is really about learning to speak the
> language because you care about it, because you love it and you love
> the people who speak it, and you want to keep that alive. There's no
> other reason necessary. Politics, identity, postcolonialism,
> education, government, autonomy, history, none of that other crap
> matters except for how to get around it so you can get on with keeping
> the language spoken.
> 
> Y?i ?y? axh toow?.
> J?iwsh
> 
> [1]: To be fair, here's my attempt: Axh xh'?s' yan?ekw y?a yakyee. ?ch
> ?w?, tl?il axh toow?a sig?o khukkhwak'eet'. N?ilx' y?i xhat natee, TV
> kkhwalateen.


From wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU  Wed May  7 15:05:38 2008
From: wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU (William J Poser)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 11:05:38 -0400
Subject: re SIL
In-Reply-To: <C4471C1F.470C%rzs@wildblue.net>
Message-ID: <WED.7.MAY.2008.110538.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

>To see a smiling portrait of blue-eyed blonde Jesus (the rabbi Yeshua)
>surrounded by the earths laughing children of every ethnicity is
>...amazing

I've always liked the statement by a particularly ignorant English-only
advocate that "If English was good enough for Jesus it should be
good enough for us."

Bill


From rrlapier at AOL.COM  Wed May  7 15:14:54 2008
From: rrlapier at AOL.COM (rrlapier at AOL.COM)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 11:14:54 -0400
Subject: Learning to speak Tlingit
In-Reply-To: <caf8a68a0805062243r49fed66arbea5259c6e97160c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <WED.7.MAY.2008.111454.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

I am hoping that some languages are in a dormant phase. 

I absolutely agree with the observations that you address in your commentary. For some, language has become ornamental, like heritage clothing or jewlery, you only hear it when the powwow princess introduces herself. 

But I am hoping that for those of us working in the field, all?five of us (ha ha), that we can leave behind some documentation (with our research) and a few second language speakers (through our?school), that can serve as resources for the future generation that may become interested. Because, let's face it,?most of the current generation are not interested. But again, I have hope for the future,?that if we work to provide resources for them, they will not have to work as hard.

So, I agree to keep the language alive you need everyday speakers of the language. But to pass through the dormant phase we need documentation, very good documentation,?for those who will come after us.?

Rosalyn LaPier
Piegan Institute




-----Original Message-----
From: James Crippen <jcrippen at GMAIL.COM>
To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Sent: Tue, 6 May 2008 11:43 pm
Subject: Re: [ILAT] Learning to speak Tlingit



2008/5/5 Jordan Lachler <jordanlachler at gmail.com>:
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1nPCGpQ86w
Goos? w? Ling?t y?o xh'at?ngi, w?i video t?ox'? Ch'u tleix' "Ling?t"
h'axhwa.axhch khu.aa. The video is a disappointment in the end
ecause other than using the word "Ling?t" to index "Tlingitness",
here's no Tlingit language spoken. None at all. Not even "Y?i ?y? haa
?o xh'at?ngi" or something like it as an introduction.
The video does make a great point, however, one that bothers me a lot.
n my personal experience talking to the various people working in
lingit revitalization, there's lots of effort put into learning words
or *things*, but not learning how to actually express meaning. This
s partly because of the complexity of the language (it's really hard
o learn!), partly because its grammar is still not well described
I'm working as hard as I can!), and partly because of the existing
ocus on teaching words and phrases rather than communicative ability
TPR is not the solution!).
But I fear that this issue will fly over the heads of the people who
t's for, in that they *won't* start to think about how they're
earning to talk. Instead, they'll see this video as reinforcing that
he words and set phrases they've learned is really a sign that
hey're using the language.
"I can say the names of all the berries in Tlingit." "I can say 'we
re cutting fish' in Tlingit." But can you say "I don't want to go and
ick berries right now. Instead I want to stay home and watch TV
ecause my feet hurt" in Tlingit? [1] Why not? What matters more to
ou?
People gain lots of pride and empowerment from learning a language,
ut then go on to use it only as an occasional token of identity.
eople speak the language, but they don't try to speak *in* the
anguage. They learn lots of words and phrases and such, but don't
ver learn how to even have a basic conversation about something as
ull as what they did last week. The language becomes a mere tool,
othing any more ornamental than a button blanket. It doesn't get used
ut in a boat to ward off the cold, it doesn't get used to pad a rock
or sitting on, it doesn't get used to wipe the steam off of a window.
nstead it only gets taken out for ceremonial occasions, treated
ently and with great respect. It only gets used to say "look here I'm
lingit" when the people with money and power are looking, and is
therwise shoved back in a box for the next time someone needs to show
t off.
The language isn't just some dead at.?owu passed on from elders to be
herished as a valuable artifact. It's the very life of being, it's
he xh'as?ikw of the people. Who cares if it gets used for
ntroductions in a political speech? Who cares if it gets used at an
mmersion camp that cost tens of thousands of dollars to arrange and
nly brought twenty people? What really matters is if it gets used in
he kitchen while making dinner, or at the store while buying
otatoes, or in the car while driving to work. It needs to live, not
e some dusty old mask in a box that people only take out to prove
heir lineage and status.
My point is that an endangered language like Tlingit isn't just a sign
o index political and social alignment, it's a living thing that
eserves to be used, deserves to have our breath pass through it. If
e're supposed to be revitalizing a language, that means really saying
hings with it rather than saying things *about* it. And if people are
oing to say things with it, then they need to really learn how to
peak and not just how to read phrases from a book.
I hear the same refrain over and over from people that revitalization
osts too much, that there's just not enough support for it, or that
t takes too much time to really learn to talk. Too often people focus
n how to get money for a project, where the money should come from,
ho should control the money, who should control the people who
ontrol the money, ad nauseam. But revitalization shouldn't cost
nything at all. If the language is important enough to save then
eople ought to be willing to put their own free time into keeping it
live, and not worrying about who's going to get the government
heese. It's not about how to look good, or to gain prestige or power
r money. Revitalization is really about learning to speak the
anguage because you care about it, because you love it and you love
he people who speak it, and you want to keep that alive. There's no
ther reason necessary. Politics, identity, postcolonialism,
ducation, government, autonomy, history, none of that other crap
atters except for how to get around it so you can get on with keeping
he language spoken.
Y?i ?y? axh toow?.
?iwsh
[1]: To be fair, here's my attempt: Axh xh'?s' yan?ekw y?a yakyee. ?ch
w?, tl?il axh toow?a sig?o khukkhwak'eet'. N?ilx' y?i xhat natee, TV
khwalateen.

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From rtroike at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Wed May  7 17:49:09 2008
From: rtroike at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (Rudy Troike)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 10:49:09 -0700
Subject: James Crippen's message
In-Reply-To: <ILAT%200805070007224982.0209@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Message-ID: <WED.7.MAY.2008.104909.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

James Crippen's valuable message deserves to be widely disseminated among
communities interested in language preservation/revival/restoration. The
educational model which language teaching in schools has created, that 
learning
a language is just learning a few labels for "things", really militates 
against
the success of such efforts. It is unfortunate that interest too often 
devolves
into concern only for the availability of money. In the past, communities
receiving funding for schools from the BIA paid no attention to language until
special funding for bilingual education came along. When the special funds
declined or disappeared, so did interest and materials. As James points out,
the best way for a language to be preserved is the natural way of placing
young children with native speakers (grandparents where possible) for extended
periods. The cost would be minimal, compared to the large grants that 
have been
sought and used in other ways while children were being ignored and fluent
speakers were passing away. Of course situations may vary in different 
communi-
ties, so that this most natural and best resource may no longer be available,
or there is interest in learning on the part of adults (who have lost the
best language-learning years of their lives), or the language may need to be
restored altogether, but it is sad that inappropriate models of language
learning and teaching may doom well-intentioned efforts to meaninglessness.

    Rudy Troike


From rzs at WILDBLUE.NET  Wed May  7 19:51:30 2008
From: rzs at WILDBLUE.NET (Richard Smith)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 12:51:30 -0700
Subject: re SIL
In-Reply-To: <20080507150538.1D258B2471@lorax.ldc.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.7.MAY.2008.125130.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

'course King James English is even holier.

A church out here in NE Oklahoma right now
has a sign out front  "Believe in him who liveth forever"
that word "liveth"   -   doesn't that just says it all?

There was another church sign here in Wyandotte OK.
that once posted:   " Worship in Wyandotte!"
As a Wyandot language nut reading it a different way
I could only say "AMEN!"

some of you probably noticed
the subtitles to the wonderful film "Four Sheets to the Wind"
notifies:  "foreign language" whenever the Creek language
was being spoken.     that kinda says it all too...
I told my wife as she giggled..."well I guess those Creeks are
kinda foreign - they DO live in SOUTHERN Oklahoma"

words ...words...  
often reveal more than they're meant to say

Rzs
Wyandotte Oklahoma



On 5/7/08 8:05 AM, "William J Poser" <wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU> wrote:

>> To see a smiling portrait of blue-eyed blonde Jesus (the rabbi Yeshua)
>> surrounded by the earths laughing children of every ethnicity is
>> ...amazing
> 
> I've always liked the statement by a particularly ignorant English-only
> advocate that "If English was good enough for Jesus it should be
> good enough for us."
> 
> Bill


From CMcMillan at WVC.EDU  Wed May  7 19:10:12 2008
From: CMcMillan at WVC.EDU (McMillan, Carol)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 12:10:12 -0700
Subject: re SIL
In-Reply-To: A<20080507150538.1D258B2471@lorax.ldc.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.7.MAY.2008.121012.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

:-)

Love it!  I may have to use that quote.  Do you have the actual source?
S/he deserves to be quoted.

Carol 

-----Original Message-----
From: Indigenous Languages and Technology
[mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of William J Poser
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 8:06 AM
To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: Re: [ILAT] re SIL

>To see a smiling portrait of blue-eyed blonde Jesus (the rabbi Yeshua) 
>surrounded by the earths laughing children of every ethnicity is 
>...amazing

I've always liked the statement by a particularly ignorant English-only
advocate that "If English was good enough for Jesus it should be good
enough for us."

Bill


From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Wed May  7 19:16:40 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 12:16:40 -0700
Subject: Endangered Cultures, Endangered Languages (via YouTube)
Message-ID: <WED.7.MAY.2008.121640.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Thanks Jordan L. for bringing our attention to the presence of language-based
videos posted on YouTube (re: Tlingit) and for James C. for offering a
critique.

I just wanted to follow up and suggest that people take a look at:

Endangered Cultures, Endangered Languages
http://www.youtube.com/user/weyiiletpu

I created this YouTube site to celebrate UNESCO's International Year of
Languages (and partly to take my own advice on advocacy!) and as a simple way
to promote the awareness of language endangerment.

Also, without realizing it until lately, the new media culture of directing
one's self gaze thru video (YouTube's subtitle "broadcast yourself") raises a
number of interesting though unexplored questions for endangered language
communities worldwide.

As a first impression, it seems like six-degrees-of-separation collapsed and
intimacy stolen when viewing things like an aboriginal funeral ceremony from
Australia or a sacred Karuk (northern California) dance (see commenter's
protests), etc..  Too, my mouth drops open in awe, when viewing footage of
Leonard Crow Dog speaking Lakota during the AIM uprising of the 1970s
(strangely enough, my link and the film clip have mysteriously disappeared from
YouTube).  Even more cool is the 1930s footage of northern Plateau and Plains
men speaking in the North American Indian sign language.  But I am just giving
first impressions here.

As many of you are well aware, the consumption of the exotic and the ongoing
media transformations have made YouTube attractive to some and luring to many
indigenous youth.  But as a form of advocacy, I tend to see venues like YouTube
becoming more acceptable as the price of consumer video/computer equipment
continues to fall accompanied by an ever increasing access to the internet. 
Already, we are beginning to see some adventurous filmmakers and language
advocates taking advantage of this medium to promote language learning, culture
sharing, and rights advocacy.  The down side is the loss of privacy and the
virtual shock of the new (just to name a few).

Anyway, I hope the collection of clips via YouTube are of interest.  Take a look
at the "UN Global Indigenous Women's Caucus" clip and the "UN Youth Caucus" clip
regarding the recent The United Nations Permanent Forum on Indigenous Issues on
language.

Phil Cash Cash
UofA


From delancey at UOREGON.EDU  Wed May  7 19:17:17 2008
From: delancey at UOREGON.EDU (Scott DeLancey)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 12:17:17 -0700
Subject: re SIL
In-Reply-To: <1129FD8A7A8E0D418E469D28C1700AFB4397ED@ad-ex-wvcmail.wvc.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.7.MAY.2008.121717.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

> Love it!  I may have to use that quote.  Do you have the actual source?
> S/he deserves to be quoted.

This story has been around all my life (which is getting to be
quite awhile), and probably longer--I can certainly remember
hearing it in junior high school.  It gets quoted a lot, I'll
bet you can find thousands of instances on google.  You'll find 
it attributed to all kinds of folks--usually small-town ministers
or state legislators in one of those states that the rest of us
like to make fun of.  There might actually be a true source, way
back in the dim past, but I kind of doubt it, it has a pretty
apocryphal odor about it.

Scott DeLancey

> :-)
>
>
> Carol
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Indigenous Languages and Technology
> [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of William J Poser
> Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 8:06 AM
> To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [ILAT] re SIL
>
>> To see a smiling portrait of blue-eyed blonde Jesus (the rabbi Yeshua)
>> surrounded by the earths laughing children of every ethnicity is
>> ...amazing
>
> I've always liked the statement by a particularly ignorant English-only
> advocate that "If English was good enough for Jesus it should be good
> enough for us."
>
> Bill
>
>


From iackerman at ROSETTASTONE.COM  Wed May  7 19:31:03 2008
From: iackerman at ROSETTASTONE.COM (Ackerman, Ilse)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 15:31:03 -0400
Subject: re SIL
In-Reply-To: A<Pine.LNX.4.64.0805071212330.30518@shell.uoregon.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.7.MAY.2008.153103.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

 

I saw a variant of this on an email that was circulating five years ago.
The email was an argument for immigrants to the U.S. to learn English.
The final clincher statement was "If English was good enough for the
Bible, it's good enough for the rest of us!"

 

~ i

 

Ilse Ackerman

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Indigenous Languages and Technology
[mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Scott DeLancey
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 3:17 PM
To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: Re: [ILAT] re SIL

 

> Love it!  I may have to use that quote.  Do you have the actual
source?

> S/he deserves to be quoted.

 

This story has been around all my life (which is getting to be

quite awhile), and probably longer--I can certainly remember

hearing it in junior high school.  It gets quoted a lot, I'll

bet you can find thousands of instances on google.  You'll find 

it attributed to all kinds of folks--usually small-town ministers

or state legislators in one of those states that the rest of us

like to make fun of.  There might actually be a true source, way

back in the dim past, but I kind of doubt it, it has a pretty

apocryphal odor about it.

 

Scott DeLancey

 

> :-)

> 

> 

> Carol

> 

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Indigenous Languages and Technology

> [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of William J Poser

> Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 8:06 AM

> To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU

> Subject: Re: [ILAT] re SIL

> 

>> To see a smiling portrait of blue-eyed blonde Jesus (the rabbi
Yeshua)

>> surrounded by the earths laughing children of every ethnicity is

>> ...amazing

> 

> I've always liked the statement by a particularly ignorant
English-only

> advocate that "If English was good enough for Jesus it should be good

> enough for us."

> 

> Bill

> 

> 

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From ted.moomaw at COLVILLETRIBES.COM  Wed May  7 20:10:59 2008
From: ted.moomaw at COLVILLETRIBES.COM (Ted Moomaw)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 14:10:59 -0600
Subject: Learning to speak Tlingit
In-Reply-To: <caf8a68a0805062243r49fed66arbea5259c6e97160c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <WED.7.MAY.2008.141059.0600.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

I am okanogan from eastern Washington, I have worked at our lang. program
7-8 years, and it is my thought or perception that verb conjugation was
thought of as to difficult, also tenses and possesives,  it is from my own
experience in teaching that when you teach the conj. as part of your vocab
people will be able to communicate, w/out conj. there is no communication.
xwistsmxikn
Ted Moomaw

-----Original Message-----
From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU]
On Behalf Of James Crippen
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 11:43 PM
To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: Re: [ILAT] Learning to speak Tlingit

2008/5/5 Jordan Lachler <jordanlachler at gmail.com>:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1nPCGpQ86w

Goos? w? Ling?t y?o xh'at?ngi, w?i video t?ox'? Ch'u tleix' "Ling?t"
xh'axhwa.axhch khu.aa. The video is a disappointment in the end
because other than using the word "Ling?t" to index "Tlingitness",
there's no Tlingit language spoken. None at all. Not even "Y?i ?y? haa
y?o xh'at?ngi" or something like it as an introduction.

The video does make a great point, however, one that bothers me a lot.
In my personal experience talking to the various people working in
Tlingit revitalization, there's lots of effort put into learning words
for *things*, but not learning how to actually express meaning. This
is partly because of the complexity of the language (it's really hard
to learn!), partly because its grammar is still not well described
(I'm working as hard as I can!), and partly because of the existing
focus on teaching words and phrases rather than communicative ability
(TPR is not the solution!).

But I fear that this issue will fly over the heads of the people who
it's for, in that they *won't* start to think about how they're
learning to talk. Instead, they'll see this video as reinforcing that
the words and set phrases they've learned is really a sign that
they're using the language.

"I can say the names of all the berries in Tlingit." "I can say 'we
are cutting fish' in Tlingit." But can you say "I don't want to go and
pick berries right now. Instead I want to stay home and watch TV
because my feet hurt" in Tlingit? [1] Why not? What matters more to
you?

People gain lots of pride and empowerment from learning a language,
but then go on to use it only as an occasional token of identity.
People speak the language, but they don't try to speak *in* the
language. They learn lots of words and phrases and such, but don't
ever learn how to even have a basic conversation about something as
dull as what they did last week. The language becomes a mere tool,
nothing any more ornamental than a button blanket. It doesn't get used
out in a boat to ward off the cold, it doesn't get used to pad a rock
for sitting on, it doesn't get used to wipe the steam off of a window.
Instead it only gets taken out for ceremonial occasions, treated
gently and with great respect. It only gets used to say "look here I'm
Tlingit" when the people with money and power are looking, and is
otherwise shoved back in a box for the next time someone needs to show
it off.

The language isn't just some dead at.?owu passed on from elders to be
cherished as a valuable artifact. It's the very life of being, it's
the xh'as?ikw of the people. Who cares if it gets used for
introductions in a political speech? Who cares if it gets used at an
immersion camp that cost tens of thousands of dollars to arrange and
only brought twenty people? What really matters is if it gets used in
the kitchen while making dinner, or at the store while buying
potatoes, or in the car while driving to work. It needs to live, not
be some dusty old mask in a box that people only take out to prove
their lineage and status.

My point is that an endangered language like Tlingit isn't just a sign
to index political and social alignment, it's a living thing that
deserves to be used, deserves to have our breath pass through it. If
we're supposed to be revitalizing a language, that means really saying
things with it rather than saying things *about* it. And if people are
going to say things with it, then they need to really learn how to
speak and not just how to read phrases from a book.

I hear the same refrain over and over from people that revitalization
costs too much, that there's just not enough support for it, or that
it takes too much time to really learn to talk. Too often people focus
on how to get money for a project, where the money should come from,
who should control the money, who should control the people who
control the money, ad nauseam. But revitalization shouldn't cost
anything at all. If the language is important enough to save then
people ought to be willing to put their own free time into keeping it
alive, and not worrying about who's going to get the government
cheese. It's not about how to look good, or to gain prestige or power
or money. Revitalization is really about learning to speak the
language because you care about it, because you love it and you love
the people who speak it, and you want to keep that alive. There's no
other reason necessary. Politics, identity, postcolonialism,
education, government, autonomy, history, none of that other crap
matters except for how to get around it so you can get on with keeping
the language spoken.

Y?i ?y? axh toow?.
J?iwsh

[1]: To be fair, here's my attempt: Axh xh'?s' yan?ekw y?a yakyee. ?ch
?w?, tl?il axh toow?a sig?o khukkhwak'eet'. N?ilx' y?i xhat natee, TV
kkhwalateen.


From delancey at UOREGON.EDU  Wed May  7 20:54:53 2008
From: delancey at UOREGON.EDU (Scott DeLancey)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 13:54:53 -0700
Subject: Nez Perce linguistics
In-Reply-To: <26923346.1210135157296.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hound.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <WED.7.MAY.2008.135453.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

This is apparently a recent development in Nez Perce,
representing two different developments of an old frozen
imperfective *-s suffix.  The c-stems originally had final
*-n, and the modern /c/ < *ns.  Swadesh figured it out a long
time ago, Noel Rude has written about it.  Some of those final
*-n may have been morphological and meaningful, but probably
not all of them.

Scott DeLancey

On Wed, 7 May 2008, jess tauber wrote:

> I've been looking through the Aoki et al. dictionary (don't have the
> grammar on hand but can get to it next week). Verbs are mainly divided 
> into two sets. It's beginning to look as if Aoki's VS set is more about 
> fine, high control activities etc. (the things apparently normally 
> encoded by high tone in Niger Congo languages), though admittedly it 
> will take me a day to compile all the forms. The VC set, on the other
> hand, seems more about less controlled or finely grained or focused 
>activities (low tone in N-C).
>
> Neighboring Salishan languages are overtly marked for verbal control- is
> Sahaptian generally recognized to have similar marking, including what I 
> seem to be seeing as above in N.P.? I'm also curious, if this is so, how 
> such marking interacts with vowel harmony, root consonant makeup, 
> aug/dim shifting, and choice of thematic/instrument prefixes.
>
> Has anyone written about this? Thanks.
>
> Jess Tauber
> phonosemantics at earthlink.net
>
>


From delancey at UOREGON.EDU  Wed May  7 21:01:11 2008
From: delancey at UOREGON.EDU (Scott DeLancey)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 14:01:11 -0700
Subject: Learning to speak Tlingit
In-Reply-To: <002001c8b07e$77960f30$3e5e640a@36451320001>
Message-ID: <WED.7.MAY.2008.140111.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

On Wed, 7 May 2008, Ted Moomaw wrote:

> I am okanogan from eastern Washington, I have worked at our lang. program
> 7-8 years, and it is my thought or perception that verb conjugation was
> thought of as to difficult, also tenses and possesives,  it is from my own
> experience in teaching that when you teach the conj. as part of your vocab
> people will be able to communicate, w/out conj. there is no communication.
> xwistsmxikn

I completely agree with this.  People have trouble memorizing the
conjugations of Spanish or German, and nowadays language teachers
agree that that's too hard for most people, and not the way to teach
the language.  And in so many Native languages (definitely both Tlingit
and Salish!) the verb is so incredibly more complicated than in
European languages, there's just no way in the world anybody is
going to memorize that.  You have to teach one form at a time--
teach folks how to say what they're trying to say at the moment,
or for that lesson.

Scott DeLancey


From jcrippen at GMAIL.COM  Wed May  7 21:43:15 2008
From: jcrippen at GMAIL.COM (James Crippen)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 11:43:15 -1000
Subject: Learning to speak Tlingit
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0805071358190.30518@shell.uoregon.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.7.MAY.2008.114315.1000.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 11:01 AM, Scott DeLancey <delancey at uoregon.edu> wrote:
> On Wed, 7 May 2008, Ted Moomaw wrote:
>
>
> > I am okanogan from eastern Washington, I have worked at our lang. program
> > 7-8 years, and it is my thought or perception that verb conjugation was
> > thought of as to difficult, also tenses and possesives,  it is from my own
> > experience in teaching that when you teach the conj. as part of your vocab
> > people will be able to communicate, w/out conj. there is no communication.
> > xwistsmxikn
> >
>
>  I completely agree with this.  People have trouble memorizing the
>  conjugations of Spanish or German, and nowadays language teachers
>  agree that that's too hard for most people, and not the way to teach
>  the language.  And in so many Native languages (definitely both Tlingit
>  and Salish!) the verb is so incredibly more complicated than in
>  European languages, there's just no way in the world anybody is
>  going to memorize that.  You have to teach one form at a time--
>  teach folks how to say what they're trying to say at the moment,
>  or for that lesson.

This works for teaching at the beginning and even low intermediate
levels, but once you get to the stage where people want to be creative
with their language use, they've got to learn grammar. The issues of
inclusion of grammar into the curriculum is a well researched topic in
second language teaching, and many of the strongest teaching
approaches and methods incorporate grammar lessons as an integral part
of the curriculum.

In dealing with very complex grammars like we find in North American
languages, grammar needs to be taught even more so than in more
commonly taught languages. However, people have the archaic idea that
grammar is supposed to be taught like old high school Latin classes,
where people memorize long tables of conjugation patterns and recite
them from memory. This type of teaching is highly inefficient as well
as boring for both student and teacher.

Instead, it's better to take one single, specific conjugation pattern
(e.g. 1st/2nd/3rd singular subject perfective for intransitives) and
teach it in the context of a number of different verbs. Show the
students how it works in these different verbal environments, and let
them generalize a rule themselves rather than shoving one down their
throats. If they don't get it at first, give them more verbs with the
same form. They have to learn to see the patterns for themselves.

Learning to make such rule generalizations from patterns is part of
the process of linguistic analysis, and it's also an essential part of
the language learning process. Without learning to generalize from
patterns you won't be able to expand your verbal lexicon. This is the
way I was taught both Russian and Japanese, and I've successfully
applied the same sort of reasoning to my learning of Tlingit.

It takes a while for people to get used to thinking in terms of
patterns and predicted rules, but eventually nearly everyone gets the
hang of it and they get a great sense of accomplishment when they are
finally able to use a word they've never heard before and produce a
coherent, meaningful sentence with it. This is the major step where a
student passes from a beginning student to an intermediate student,
when they have enough grasp of rules to start making novel sentences
on their own. Unless this hurdle is passed, students will remain
beginners no matter how much vocabulary they learn.

James


From hsouter at GMAIL.COM  Wed May  7 22:31:51 2008
From: hsouter at GMAIL.COM (Heather Souter)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 17:31:51 -0500
Subject: Learning to speak Tlingit
In-Reply-To: <caf8a68a0805071443x2577cbc1s5c984e1cba18d192@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <WED.7.MAY.2008.173151.0500.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Taanshi, James,

Kihchi-maarsii pur tii parol!  Kwayeeshk kiiya.  Mitoni nishtohteen
ee-itweeyeen.
Thank-you for your words!  You are right.  I really understand what you are
saying.

I appreciated your concrete suggestion about how to teach
grammar--especially verbs-- in a communicative/discovery-oriented
manner. Although I am interested in the linguistics of my language (as much
as I almost hate to admit it!), my passion is to create teaching/learning
materials that will help people learn communicate with each other--and not
just with stock phrases!  I dream of hearing Metis people joke with, get
made at and  tease each other in Michif not only at conferences and major
gatherings but in their homes, in the store and on the street....

Eekushi pitamaa.  That is all for now.
Heather



On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 4:43 PM, James Crippen <jcrippen at gmail.com> wrote:

>  On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 11:01 AM, Scott DeLancey <delancey at uoregon.edu>
> wrote:
> > On Wed, 7 May 2008, Ted Moomaw wrote:
> >
> >
> > > I am okanogan from eastern Washington, I have worked at our lang.
> program
> > > 7-8 years, and it is my thought or perception that verb conjugation
> was
> > > thought of as to difficult, also tenses and possesives,  it is from my
> own
> > > experience in teaching that when you teach the conj. as part of your
> vocab
> > > people will be able to communicate, w/out conj. there is no
> communication.
> > > xwistsmxikn
> > >
> >
> >  I completely agree with this.  People have trouble memorizing the
> >  conjugations of Spanish or German, and nowadays language teachers
> >  agree that that's too hard for most people, and not the way to teach
> >  the language.  And in so many Native languages (definitely both Tlingit
> >  and Salish!) the verb is so incredibly more complicated than in
> >  European languages, there's just no way in the world anybody is
> >  going to memorize that.  You have to teach one form at a time--
> >  teach folks how to say what they're trying to say at the moment,
> >  or for that lesson.
>
> This works for teaching at the beginning and even low intermediate
> levels, but once you get to the stage where people want to be creative
> with their language use, they've got to learn grammar. The issues of
> inclusion of grammar into the curriculum is a well researched topic in
> second language teaching, and many of the strongest teaching
> approaches and methods incorporate grammar lessons as an integral part
> of the curriculum.
>
> In dealing with very complex grammars like we find in North American
> languages, grammar needs to be taught even more so than in more
> commonly taught languages. However, people have the archaic idea that
> grammar is supposed to be taught like old high school Latin classes,
> where people memorize long tables of conjugation patterns and recite
> them from memory. This type of teaching is highly inefficient as well
> as boring for both student and teacher.
>
> Instead, it's better to take one single, specific conjugation pattern
> (e.g. 1st/2nd/3rd singular subject perfective for intransitives) and
> teach it in the context of a number of different verbs. Show the
> students how it works in these different verbal environments, and let
> them generalize a rule themselves rather than shoving one down their
> throats. If they don't get it at first, give them more verbs with the
> same form. They have to learn to see the patterns for themselves.
>
> Learning to make such rule generalizations from patterns is part of
> the process of linguistic analysis, and it's also an essential part of
> the language learning process. Without learning to generalize from
> patterns you won't be able to expand your verbal lexicon. This is the
> way I was taught both Russian and Japanese, and I've successfully
> applied the same sort of reasoning to my learning of Tlingit.
>
> It takes a while for people to get used to thinking in terms of
> patterns and predicted rules, but eventually nearly everyone gets the
> hang of it and they get a great sense of accomplishment when they are
> finally able to use a word they've never heard before and produce a
> coherent, meaningful sentence with it. This is the major step where a
> student passes from a beginning student to an intermediate student,
> when they have enough grasp of rules to start making novel sentences
> on their own. Unless this hurdle is passed, students will remain
> beginners no matter how much vocabulary they learn.
>
> James
>
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From dzo at BISHARAT.NET  Thu May  8 02:20:41 2008
From: dzo at BISHARAT.NET (Don Osborn)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 22:20:41 -0400
Subject: NHLRC & the Heritage Languages SIG at ACTFL (proposed)
Message-ID: <WED.7.MAY.2008.222041.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

FYI. A call for support and a brief explanation from Kathleen Dillon in
response to my request for more info.

 

-----------

 The National Heritage Language Resource Center, which is promoting the new
ACTFL SIG,  is working on behalf of all the language groups in this country
and is especially interested in the preservation and advancement of the
LCTLs. Please take a look at our website to learn more about our activities.

 

http://www.international.ucla.edu/languages/nhlrc/

 

 

 

From: owner-lgpolicy-list at ccat.sas.upenn.edu
[mailto:owner-lgpolicy-list at ccat.sas.upenn.edu] On Behalf Of Kathleen Dillon
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 2:32 PM
To: lgpolicy-list at ccat.sas.upenn.edu
Subject: Heritage Languages Special Interest Group (SIG)

 

PLEASE VOTE IN SUPPORT OF AN ACTFL HERITAGE SPECIAL INTEREST GROUP

 

ACTFL has established Special Interest Groups (SIGs) to provide continuous
networking and information sharing on a specific topic or area of interest
to a subset of ACTFL's overall membership.  SIGs conduct annual meetings at
the ACTFL conference. 

 

Please support the establishment of a SIG (Special Interest Group) for
Heritage Language Teaching. If 100 ACTFL members vote in support of this
action, a SIG will be set up. 

 

Cast you vote of support at

http://www.actfl.org/i4a/forms/form.cfm?id=100

 

 

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From rzs at WILDBLUE.NET  Thu May  8 16:13:09 2008
From: rzs at WILDBLUE.NET (Richard Smith)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 09:13:09 -0700
Subject: Learning to speak Tlingit
In-Reply-To: <8CA7E6C3C64338B-11A8-5014@webmail-nd15.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <THU.8.MAY.2008.091309.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Rosalyn,
thanks for sharing this about dormancy
I find similar "lack" of deep interest here too among tribal members.
Keeping focus upon the future generations is sometimes the only thing
that keeps me wading through resources and trying to compile stems
and trying to get our linguists to atleast TALK with one another...
There is even a mindset among tribal authorities that the language
will NEVER come back as a spoken language...so there is no sense of urgency.
sometimes I feel like zeal for recovery is merely tolerated as fantasy.

I have so many "what's the use!" moments here.......
What is a hands-on artist craftsman like me doing anyway tangling with
insurmountable tasks of this work with words and computers?
Just reading your own words encourages me
I want to apologize if i ever sound like i'm hunting for blame targets
 here on this forum. Warrior blood sometimes stirs in me, but
blame never builds anything...and is distracting from our goals.
I hope what might sound like blame, is only grief reacting
like stunned people coming out of their cellars after a tornado
trying to understand how we could have lost so much.

Hamendizhu' ay?mat?dut?h tsatrihute
taskwan?ht n?ma k?tatih ham?tayeh d'iyawishra'  de yarohniyeh
nesha d'iyawishra' d' a?metsayeh

Creator (All-Power) I ask of you - listen
give us all this day(count)  strength of the "heavens"
and also the strength of the earth

-Richard Zane Smith
  Sohahiyoh
Wyandotte Oklahoma



On 5/7/08 8:14 AM, "rrlapier at AOL.COM" <rrlapier at AOL.COM> wrote:

> I am hoping that some languages are in a dormant phase.
> 
> I absolutely agree with the observations that you address in your commentary.
> For some, language has become ornamental, like heritage clothing or jewlery,
> you only hear it when the powwow princess introduces herself.
> 
> But I am hoping that for those of us working in the field, all five of us (ha
> ha), that we can leave behind some documentation (with our research) and a few
> second language speakers (through our school), that can serve as resources for
> the future generation that may become interested. Because, let's face it, most
> of the current generation are not interested. But again, I have hope for the
> future, that if we work to provide resources for them, they will not have to
> work as hard.
> 
> So, I agree to keep the language alive you need everyday speakers of the
> language. But to pass through the dormant phase we need documentation, very
> good documentation, for those who will come after us.
> 
> Rosalyn LaPier
> Piegan Institute
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: James Crippen <jcrippen at GMAIL.COM>
> To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
> Sent: Tue, 6 May 2008 11:43 pm
> Subject: Re: [ILAT] Learning to speak Tlingit
> 
> 2008/5/5 Jordan Lachler <jordanlachler at gmail.com>:
>> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1nPCGpQ86w
> 
> Goos? w? Ling?t y?o xh'at?ngi, w?i video t?ox'? Ch'u tleix' "Ling?t"
> xh'axhwa.axhch khu.aa. The video is a disappointment in the end
> because other than using the word "Ling?t" to index "Tlingitness",
> there's no Tlingit language spoken. None at all. Not even "Y?i ?y? haa
> y?o xh'at?ngi" or something like it as an introduction.
> 
> The video does make a great point, however, one that bothers me a lot.
> In my personal experience talking to the various people working in
> Tlingit revitalization, there's lots of effort put into learning words
> for *things*, but not learning how to actually express meaning. This
> is partly because of the complexity of the language (it's really hard
> to learn!), partly because its grammar is still not well described
> (I'm working as hard as I can!), and partly because of the existing
> focus on teaching words and phrases rather than communicative ability
> (TPR is not the solution!).
> 
> But I fear that this issue will fly over the heads of the people who
> it's for, in that they *won't* start to think about how they're
> learning to talk. Instead, they'll see this video as reinforcing that
> the words and set phrases they've learned is really a sign that
> they're using the language.
> 
> "I can say the names of all the berries in Tlingit." "I can say 'we
> are cutting fish' in Tlingit." But can you say "I don't want to go and
> pick berries right now. Instead I want to stay home and watch TV
> because my feet hurt" in Tlingit? [1] Why not? What matters more to
> you?
> 
> People gain lots of pride and empowerment from learning a language,
> but then go on to use it only as an occasional token of identity.
> People speak the language, but they don't try to speak *in* the
> language. They learn lots of words and phrases and such, but don't
> ever learn how to even have a basic conversation about something as
> dull as what they did last week. The language becomes a mere tool,
> nothing any more ornamental than a button blanket. It doesn't get used
> out in a boat to ward off the cold, it doesn't get used to pad a rock
> for sitting on, it doesn't get used to wipe the steam off of a window.
> Instead it only gets taken out for ceremonial occasions, treated
> gently and with great respect. It only gets used to say "look here I'm
> Tlingit" when the people with money and power are looking, and is
> otherwise shoved back in a box for the next time someone needs to show
> it off.
> 
> The language isn't just some dead at.?owu passed on from elders to be
> cherished as a valuable artifact. It's the very life of being, it's
> the xh'as?ikw of the people. Who cares if it gets used for
> introductions in a political speech? Who cares if it gets used at an
> immersion camp that cost tens of thousands of dollars to arrange and
> only brought twenty people? What really matters is if it gets used in
> the kitchen while making dinner, or at the store while buying
> potatoes, or in the car while driving to work. It needs to live, not
> be some dusty old mask in a box that people only take out to prove
> their lineage and status.
> 
> My point is that an endangered language like Tlingit isn't just a sign
> to index political and social alignment, it's a living thing that
> deserves to be used, deserves to have our breath pass through it. If
> we're supposed to be revitalizing a language, that means really saying
> things with it rather than saying things *about* it. And if people are
> going to say things with it, then they need to really learn how to
> speak and not just how to read phrases from a book.
> 
> I hear the same refrain over and over from people that revitalization
> costs too much, that there's just not enough support for it, or that
> it takes too much time to really learn to talk. Too often people focus
> on how to get money for a project, where the money should come from,
> who should control the money, who should control the people who
> control the money, ad nauseam. But revitalization shouldn't cost
> anything at all. If the language is important enough to save then
> people ought to be willing to put their own free time into keeping it
> alive, and not worrying about who's going to get the government
> cheese. It's not about how to look good, or to gain prestige or power
> or money. Revitalization is really about learning to speak the
> language because you care about it, because you love it and you love
> the people who speak it, and you want to keep that alive. There's no
> other reason necessary. Politics, identity, postcolonialism,
> education, government, autonomy, history, none of that other crap
> matters except for how to get around it so you can get on with keeping
> the language spoken.
> 
> Y?i ?y? axh toow?.
> J?iwsh
> 
> [1]: To be fair, here's my attempt: Axh xh'?s' yan?ekw y?a yakyee. ?ch
> ?w?, tl?il axh toow?a sig?o khukkhwak'eet'. N?ilx' y?i xhat natee, TV
> kkhwalateen.
> 
> Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com
> <http://www.mapquest.com/?ncid=mpqmap00030000000004> : America's #1 Mapping
> Site. 
> 


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From hsouter at GMAIL.COM  Thu May  8 15:55:03 2008
From: hsouter at GMAIL.COM (Heather Souter)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 10:55:03 -0500
Subject: Learning to speak Tlingit
In-Reply-To: <C44874A5.4735%rzs@wildblue.net>
Message-ID: <THU.8.MAY.2008.105503.0500.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Taanshi,

Kihchi-maarsii pur kakiyaaw tii parol!  Surtu James, Rosalyn  pi
Richard marsii kit-itwaanaawaw.  I thank you all for your words,
especially James, Rosalyn and Richard.

Working with next to no support from our politicians/leaders (for many
of the same reasons cited already), I get really discouraged
sometimes.  (At the same time, thanks to some wonderful Elders and
dreams for the future, I keep on going :-))  However, when I think
honestly about our chances of succeeding in breathing new breath into
Michif at this point in time, I have to admit the odds are not good.
And, as time passes, the need for documentation is more and more
pressing....  As I work on linguistic analysis, lexicography and the
creation of teaching/learning materials, I see the need to record as
much as I can.  I just hope for more hearts, hands and heads soon as
time seems to be passing so very quickly....

Eekushi pitamaa.  That is all for now.
Heather

Tu li ta?, miishiwee itee piikishkweetak ta-la?g-iaan!
Let's speak our languages all the time, everywhere!


On 5/8/08, Richard Smith <rzs at wildblue.net> wrote:
>
> Rosalyn,
>  thanks for sharing this about dormancy
>  I find similar "lack" of deep interest here too among tribal members.
>  Keeping focus upon the future generations is sometimes the only thing
>  that keeps me wading through resources and trying to compile stems
>  and trying to get our linguists to atleast TALK with one another...
>  There is even a mindset among tribal authorities that the language
>  will NEVER come back as a spoken language...so there is no sense of
> urgency.
>  sometimes I feel like zeal for recovery is merely tolerated as fantasy.
>
>  I have so many "what's the use!" moments here.......
>  What is a hands-on artist craftsman like me doing anyway tangling with
>  insurmountable tasks of this work with words and computers?
>  Just reading your own words encourages me
>  I want to apologize if i ever sound like i'm hunting for blame targets
>   here on this forum. Warrior blood sometimes stirs in me, but
>  blame never builds anything...and is distracting from our goals.
>  I hope what might sound like blame, is only grief reacting
>  like stunned people coming out of their cellars after a tornado
>  trying to understand how we could have lost so much.
>
>  Hamendizhu' ay?mat?dut?h tsatrihute
>  taskwan?ht n?ma k?tatih ham?tayeh d'iyawishra'  de yarohniyeh
>  nesha d'iyawishra' d' a?metsayeh
>
>  Creator (All-Power) I ask of you - listen
>  give us all this day(count)  strength of the "heavens"
>  and also the strength of the earth
>
>  -Richard Zane Smith
>    Sohahiyoh
>  Wyandotte Oklahoma
>
>
>
>
>  On 5/7/08 8:14 AM, "rrlapier at AOL.COM" <rrlapier at AOL.COM> wrote:
>
>
> I am hoping that some languages are in a dormant phase.
>
>  I absolutely agree with the observations that you address in your
> commentary. For some, language has become ornamental, like heritage clothing
> or jewlery, you only hear it when the powwow princess introduces herself.
>
>  But I am hoping that for those of us working in the field, all five of us
> (ha ha), that we can leave behind some documentation (with our research) and
> a few second language speakers (through our school), that can serve as
> resources for the future generation that may become interested. Because,
> let's face it, most of the current generation are not interested. But again,
> I have hope for the future, that if we work to provide resources for them,
> they will not have to work as hard.
>
>  So, I agree to keep the language alive you need everyday speakers of the
> language. But to pass through the dormant phase we need documentation, very
> good documentation, for those who will come after us.
>
>  Rosalyn LaPier
>  Piegan Institute
>
>
>
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: James Crippen <jcrippen at GMAIL.COM>
>  To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
>  Sent: Tue, 6 May 2008 11:43 pm
>  Subject: Re: [ILAT] Learning to speak Tlingit
>
>
> 2008/5/5 Jordan Lachler <jordanlachler at gmail.com>:
>  > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1nPCGpQ86w
>
>  Goos? w? Ling?t y?o xh'at?ngi, w?i video t?ox'? Ch'u tleix' "Ling?t"
>  xh'axhwa.axhch khu.aa. The video is a disappointment in the end
>  because other than using the word "Ling?t" to index "Tlingitness",
>  there's no Tlingit language spoken. None at all. Not even "Y?i ?y? haa
>  y?o xh'at?ngi" or something like it as an introduction.
>
>  The video does make a great point, however, one that bothers me a lot.
>  In my personal experience talking to the various people working in
>  Tlingit revitalization, there's lots of effort put into learning words
>  for *things*, but not learning how to actually express meaning. This
>  is partly because of the complexity of the language (it's really hard
>  to learn!), partly because its grammar is still not well described
>  (I'm working as hard as I can!), and partly because of the existing
>  focus on teaching words and phrases rather than communicative ability
>  (TPR is not the solution!).
>
>  But I fear that this issue will fly over the heads of the people who
>  it's for, in that they *won't* start to think about how they're
>  learning to talk. Instead, they'll see this video as reinforcing that
>  the words and set phrases they've learned is really a sign that
>  they're using the language.
>
>  "I can say the names of all the berries in Tlingit." "I can say 'we
>  are cutting fish' in Tlingit." But can you say "I don't want to go and
>  pick berries right now. Instead I want to stay home and watch TV
>  because my feet hurt" in Tlingit? [1] Why not? What matters more to
>  you?
>
>  People gain lots of pride and empowerment from learning a language,
>  but then go on to use it only as an occasional token of identity.
>  People speak the language, but they don't try to speak *in* the
>  language. They learn lots of words and phrases and such, but don't
>  ever learn how to even have a basic conversation about something as
>  dull as what they did last week. The language becomes a mere tool,
>  nothing any more ornamental than a button blanket. It doesn't get used
>  out in a boat to ward off the cold, it doesn't get used to pad a rock
>  for sitting on, it doesn't get used to wipe the steam off of a window.
>  Instead it only gets taken out for ceremonial occasions, treated
>  gently and with great respect. It only gets used to say "look here I'm
>  Tlingit" when the people with money and power are looking, and is
>  otherwise shoved back in a box for the next time someone needs to show
>  it off.
>
>  The language isn't just some dead at.?owu passed on from elders to be
>  cherished as a valuable artifact. It's the very life of being, it's
>  the xh'as?ikw of the people. Who cares if it gets used for
>  introductions in a political speech? Who cares if it gets used at an
>  immersion camp that cost tens of thousands of dollars to arrange and
>  only brought twenty people? What really matters is if it gets used in
>  the kitchen while making dinner, or at the store while buying
>  potatoes, or in the car while driving to work. It needs to live, not
>  be some dusty old mask in a box that people only take out to prove
>  their lineage and status.
>
>  My point is that an endangered language like Tlingit isn't just a sign
>  to index political and social alignment, it's a living thing that
>  deserves to be used, deserves to have our breath pass through it. If
>  we're supposed to be revitalizing a language, that means really saying
>  things with it rather than saying things *about* it. And if people are
>  going to say things with it, then they need to really learn how to
>  speak and not just how to read phrases from a book.
>
>  I hear the same refrain over and over from people that revitalization
>  costs too much, that there's just not enough support for it, or that
>  it takes too much time to really learn to talk. Too often people focus
>  on how to get money for a project, where the money should come from,
>  who should control the money, who should control the people who
>  control the money, ad nauseam. But revitalization shouldn't cost
>  anything at all. If the language is important enough to save then
>  people ought to be willing to put their own free time into keeping it
>  alive, and not worrying about who's going to get the government
>  cheese. It's not about how to look good, or to gain prestige or power
>  or money. Revitalization is really about learning to speak the
>  language because you care about it, because you love it and you love
>  the people who speak it, and you want to keep that alive. There's no
>  other reason necessary. Politics, identity, postcolonialism,
>  education, government, autonomy, history, none of that other crap
>  matters except for how to get around it so you can get on with keeping
>  the language spoken.
>
>  Y?i ?y? axh toow?.
>  J?iwsh
>
>  [1]: To be fair, here's my attempt: Axh xh'?s' yan?ekw y?a yakyee. ?ch
>  ?w?, tl?il axh toow?a sig?o khukkhwak'eet'. N?ilx' y?i xhat natee, TV
>  kkhwalateen.
>  ________________________________
> Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com
> <http://www.mapquest.com/?ncid=mpqmap00030000000004> :
> America's #1 Mapping Site.
>
>
>


From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Thu May  8 17:13:10 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 10:13:10 -0700
Subject: Glenroi is talking the Wiradjuri’s language (fwd link)
Message-ID: <THU.8.MAY.2008.101310.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Australia
Central Western Daily

Glenroi is talking the Wiradjuri?s language

BY TRACEY PRISK
7/05/2008 7:53:00 AM

In an effort to achieve better long-term outcomes for its students, Glenroi
Heights Public School, in partnership with the local Aboriginal community, is
offering its pupils a range of language and dance lessons aimed at giving them
a greater appreciation of the Aboriginal Wiradjuri language.

In a trial program which kicked off this year, children at the primary school,
of which 45 per cent are Aboriginal, are being offered three Wiradjuri lessons
over a three week period.

Access full article below:
http://orange.yourguide.com.au/news/local/news/general/glenroi-is-talking-the-wiradjuris-language/764804.aspx


From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Thu May  8 17:15:39 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 10:15:39 -0700
Subject: Indigenous peoples have crucial role in climate change debate –
 UN forum (fwd link)
Message-ID: <THU.8.MAY.2008.101539.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

UN News Centre

Indigenous peoples have crucial role in climate change debate ? UN forum

5 May 2008 ? Indigenous peoples have an important role to play in the global
response to climate change, given their knowledge and experience with impacts
of the phenomenon, and should be included in the international debate on the
issue, a United Nations gathering on indigenous affairs concluded.

Access full article below:
http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=26565&Cr=indigenous&Cr1=


From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Thu May  8 17:21:47 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 10:21:47 -0700
Subject: Government drops plans to open up uncontacted tribes’ reserves
 (fwd link)
Message-ID: <THU.8.MAY.2008.102147.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Survival International

Government drops plans to open up uncontacted tribes? reserves
8 May 2008

Peru?s government has dropped plans to open up uncontacted Indians? reserves to
oil exploration. The latest round of concessions, announced this week, do not
include any of the uncontacted Indians? reserves.

The move appears to be in response to a storm of criticism from Survival and
Indian organisations in Peru. Survival had urged the Peruvian government not to
permit exploration in such areas because it could lead to the tribes?
extinction.

Access full article below:
http://www.survival-international.org/news/3292


From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Thu May  8 17:25:53 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 10:25:53 -0700
Subject: BSU professor to write first Ojibwe grammar book (fwd link)
Message-ID: <THU.8.MAY.2008.102553.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

BSU professor to write first Ojibwe grammar book
Associate professor of Ojibwe awarded a Guggenheim Foundation fellowship to
write book

May 7, 2008 - 9:18am ? Journal Staff

Bemidji State University Associate Professor of Ojibwe Anton Treuer has been
awarded a fellowship from the Guggenheim Foundation to continue his work to
develop the first grammar manual of the Ojibwe language. Treuer is thought to
be the first BSU faculty member to receive a Guggenheim Fellowship in the
83-year history of the Fellowships.

?This is an exciting and important development,? Treuer said. ?There are no
grammar books for the Ojibwe language. Early missionaries did some brief
sketches, 30 to 40 pages, but there are no pedagogical manuals for us to teach
from. This is something we must have if we?re going to develop things like
immersion programs to preserve and teach the language. All languages that are
alive have these things.?

Access full article below:
http://www.ifallsdailyjournal.com/news/education-news/bsu-professor-write-first-ojibwe-grammar-book-8772


From wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU  Sat May 10 00:48:53 2008
From: wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU (William J Poser)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 20:48:53 -0400
Subject: re SIL
In-Reply-To: <1129FD8A7A8E0D418E469D28C1700AFB4397ED@ad-ex-wvcmail.wvc.edu>
Message-ID: <FRI.9.MAY.2008.204853.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

>Love it!  I may have to use that quote.  Do you have the actual source?
>S/he deserves to be quoted.

Sorry, no, it is something I heard on TV some years ago. Unless
maybe I can track it down via google.

Bill


From wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU  Sat May 10 00:53:22 2008
From: wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU (William J Poser)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 20:53:22 -0400
Subject: re SIL
In-Reply-To: <26F524064A98A34B8984CE6537B0864C027A449D@RSHBGEXVS1.rosettastone.local>
Message-ID: <FRI.9.MAY.2008.205322.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Well, I didn't hear it myself but a friend reports having
had an argument with an orthodox Jewish woman about the use of Hebrew
as an every-day language (which some orthodox Jews oppose) in
which she said: "If Yiddish was good enough for Moses it should be
good enough for us." But that might be apocryphal too. On the other
hand, some stories that are so good that they almost have to be
apocryphal are true. For example, there is a story that some linguists
may know about Paul Kiparsky being stopped by a California State
Trooper which, like a number of Kiparsky stories, almost has to be
apocryphal. That particular one isn't: I was there.

Bill


From phonosemantics at EARTHLINK.NET  Sat May 10 09:26:50 2008
From: phonosemantics at EARTHLINK.NET (jess tauber)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 05:26:50 -0400
Subject: Mental sharpness and multilingualism?
Message-ID: <SAT.10.MAY.2008.052650.0400.PHONOSEMANTICS@EARTHLINK.NET>

See http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/05/080507152419.htm

Have we discussed this here as a good motivation to help people retain their endangered languages? Anyone know if the finding is real?

Jess Tauber
phonosemantics at earthlink.net


From hsouter at GMAIL.COM  Sat May 10 18:46:04 2008
From: hsouter at GMAIL.COM (Heather Souter)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 13:46:04 -0500
Subject: The Story Behind Each Word....
Message-ID: <SAT.10.MAY.2008.134604.0500.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Taanshi,

I have been thinking about the use/meaning of "word" and  ran across
this wonderful quote from Leslie Marmon Silko's work "Ceremony".  I
cannot match the eloquence of the writer, so I will add no commentary.
 (None is needed....)

"But you know, grandson, this world is fragile."
The word he choose to express fragile was filled with the intricacies
of a continuing process, and with a strength inherent in spider webs
woven across paths through sand hills where early in the morning the
sun becomes entangled in each filament of web.  It took a long time to
explain the fragility and intricacy because no word exists alone, and
the reason for choosing each word had to be explained with a story
about why it must be said this certain way.  That was the
responsibility that went with being human...,the story behind each
word must be told so that there could be no mistake in the meaning of
what had been said; and this demanded great patience and love.
Ceremony, pp.35-36, Leslie Marmon Silko, 1977

Eekoshi pitamaa.
Heather


From rtroike at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Sat May 10 23:54:29 2008
From: rtroike at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (Rudy Troike)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 16:54:29 -0700
Subject: If English was good enough for Jesus...
In-Reply-To: <ILAT%200805100043466065.03CF@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Message-ID: <SAT.10.MAY.2008.165429.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

I doubt whether anyone would be able to track that down, unless there is
an archive of transcripts of sermons by evangelical preachers on border
Mexican radio stations. I heard the attribution to one of them back in
the 1950s before TV was around. It's probably been in the pipeline for
a long time.

    Rudy


From bulbulthegreat at GMAIL.COM  Sun May 11 00:05:52 2008
From: bulbulthegreat at GMAIL.COM (=?UTF-8?Q?Slavom=C3=ADr_=C4=8C=C3=A9pl=C3=B6?=)
Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 02:05:52 +0200
Subject: If English was good enough for Jesus...
In-Reply-To: <20080510165429.w75wkk8oc08co8kg@www.email.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <SUN.11.MAY.2008.020552.0200.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Rudy,

it seems this is a old urban myth and the quote usually attributed to
Texas governor Ma Ferguson. It was discussed a number of times on
Language Log, e.g.
http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/003084.html

bulbul


On Sun, May 11, 2008 at 1:54 AM, Rudy Troike <rtroike at email.arizona.edu> wrote:
> I doubt whether anyone would be able to track that down, unless there is
> an archive of transcripts of sermons by evangelical preachers on border
> Mexican radio stations. I heard the attribution to one of them back in
> the 1950s before TV was around. It's probably been in the pipeline for
> a long time.
>
>   Rudy
>


From wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU  Sun May 11 00:35:14 2008
From: wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU (William J Poser)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 20:35:14 -0400
Subject: If English was good enough for Jesus...
In-Reply-To: <5ba2490d0805101705r19559c58hc235d0d78a57abd4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SAT.10.MAY.2008.203514.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

The thing about slogans like this is that, just as they may be
spread by people making fun of them, they may also be picked
up by people who like them and re-used.

Bill


From wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU  Sun May 11 03:46:34 2008
From: wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU (William J Poser)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 23:46:34 -0400
Subject: Mental sharpness and bilingualism
Message-ID: <SAT.10.MAY.2008.234634.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

The finding reported in the article that Jess cites that
childhood bi- and multi-lingualism is associated with better
cognition among elders parallels previous findings of similar
advantages among younger adults. I suspect that there is some
cognitive advantage to multilingualism, but it is difficult to
be really sure because it is virtually impossible to control
for all of the relevant variables in such studies. The only
way to do a perfect experiment would be to randomly select
the children to be raised monolingual and the children to be
raised multilingual prior to birth from a population in which
they could be expected to be brought up in similar ways.
Unfortunately (from a strictly scientific point of view),
this is not possible. Such studies are therefore always of
populations where one can never be 100% certain that some other
relevant factor does not differentiate the monolingual and
multilingual subjects.

So, yes, I think that one can use such studies as support for
the virtue of speaking more than one language, but I wouldn't
want to push it too hard because of the methodological problem.
Note also that there is an earlier literature that claims the
opposite, that is, that bilingualism is damaging. Those studies
are subject to the same methodological limitation (as well as
others - most of them are really bad) so if nothing else the
more recent positive studies can be taken as refuting the
earlier negative ones.

Bill
 


From wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU  Sun May 11 04:06:31 2008
From: wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU (William J Poser)
Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 00:06:31 -0400
Subject: Multilingualism....
Message-ID: <SUN.11.MAY.2008.000631.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Here are the reference to the paper referred to in the Science Daily
article and the abstract:

Kave, Gitit, Eyal, Nitza, Shorek, Aviva, and Jiska Cohen-Mansfield (2008)
``Multilingualism and Cognitive State in the Oldest Old,''
Psychology and Aging 23.1.70-78.

In this study, the authors examined whether the number of languages a
person speaks predicts performance on 2 cognitive-screening
tests. Data were drawn from a representative sample of the oldest
Israeli Jewish population (N = 814, M age = 83.0 years; SD = 5.4) that
was interviewed first in 1989 and then twice more within the following
12 years. Cognitive state differed significantly among groups of
self-reported bilingual, trilingual, and multilingual individuals at
each of the 3 interview waves. Regression analyses showed that the
number of languages spoken contributed to the prediction of cognitive
test scores beyond the effect of other demographic variables, such as
age, gender, place of birth, age at immigration, or
education. Multilingualism was also found to be a significant
predictor of cognitive state in a group of individuals who acquired no
formal education at all. Those who reported being most fluent in a
language other than their mother tongue scored higher on average than
did those whose mother tongue was their best language, but the effect
of number of languages on cognitive state was significant in both
groups, with no significant interaction. Results are discussed in the
context of theories of cognitive reserve.


From anguksuar at YAHOO.COM  Sun May 11 14:00:32 2008
From: anguksuar at YAHOO.COM (Anguksuar)
Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 09:00:32 -0500
Subject: Anguksuar sent you an Article from startribune.com
Message-ID: <SUN.11.MAY.2008.090032.0500.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

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From linguist4 at KATHLANGCENTRE.ORG.AU  Mon May 12 00:17:38 2008
From: linguist4 at KATHLANGCENTRE.ORG.AU (Eugenie Collyer)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 09:47:38 +0930
Subject: re SIL
In-Reply-To: <1129FD8A7A8E0D418E469D28C1700AFB4397ED@ad-ex-wvcmail.wvc.edu>
Message-ID: <MON.12.MAY.2008.094738.0930.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

I  remember reading about that quote in Bill Bryson's 'Mother  
Tongue', I think it was a US senator...?


On 08/05/2008, at 4:40 AM, McMillan, Carol wrote:

> :-)
>
> Love it!  I may have to use that quote.  Do you have the actual  
> source?
> S/he deserves to be quoted.
>
> Carol
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Indigenous Languages and Technology
> [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of William J Poser
> Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 8:06 AM
> To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [ILAT] re SIL
>
>> To see a smiling portrait of blue-eyed blonde Jesus (the rabbi  
>> Yeshua)
>> surrounded by the earths laughing children of every ethnicity is
>> ...amazing
>
> I've always liked the statement by a particularly ignorant English- 
> only
> advocate that "If English was good enough for Jesus it should be good
> enough for us."
>
> Bill

Eugenie Collyer
Town Linguist
Diwurruwurru-Jaru Aboriginal Corporation
(Katherine Regional Aboriginal Language Centre)
PO Box 871, Katherine 0851
Ph: (08) 89711233
Fax: (08) 8971 0561



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From fmarmole at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Mon May 12 05:01:51 2008
From: fmarmole at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (Francisco Marmolejo)
Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 22:01:51 -0700
Subject: Five "new" indigenous languages in Mexico
Message-ID: <SUN.11.MAY.2008.220151.0700.>

Dear colleagues:

Enclosed please find a news item published today in Mexico's newspapers
about the "discovery" of five indigenous languages in Mexico.

Those Languages are: q'eqch?, ki'che, cakchiquel, ixil and  moch?s.
As explained by Carlos Zolla-Luque, coordinator of the project entitled
"Programa Universitario M?xico Naci?n Multicultural" at the National
Autonomous University of Mexico (UNAM), this increase in the number of
languages in Mexico is mostly due to immigrants from Guatemala who have
moved to the Southern Mexican border.

Regards,
Francisco
  

Francisco Marmolejo
Executive Director
Consortium for North American Higher Education Collaboration
CONAHEC - University of Arizona
PO Box 210300
220 W. Sixth Street
Tucson, AZ 85721-0300 USA
Tel. (520) 621-9080 / 621-7761
Fax (520) 626-2675
Email: fmarmole at email.arizona.edu
http://conahec.org



Francisco Marmolejo
Assistant Vice President for Western Hemispheric Programs
University of Arizona
PO Box 210158
888 N. Euclid Ave. / University Services Bldg.
Tucson, AZ 85721 USA
Tel. (520) 626-4258
Fax (520) 621-6011
Email: fmarmole at email.arizona.edu
http://www.whp.arizona.edu

+++++++++++++

http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/notas/505982.html


Descubren en M?xico cinco nuevas lenguas ind?genas  
Notimex 
El Universal 
Ciudad de M?xico 
Domingo 11 de mayo de 2008 

 
Mientras en el pa?s se ha incrementado el n?mero de lenguas ind?genas, en el
mundo se registra la constante p?rdida de uno o varios idiomas 

 
Los censos de poblaci?n han descubierto en M?xico cinco nuevas lenguas:
q'eqch?, ki'che, cakchiquel, ixil y moch?s, explic? Carlos Zolla Luque,
coordinador del Programa Universitario M?xico Naci?n Multicultural (PUMC) de
la UNAM. 
El investigador de la Universidad Nacional Aut?noma de M?xico (UNAM) asegur?
que en M?xico se ha incrementado el n?mero de lenguas ind?genas, mientras
que en el mundo se registra la constante p?rdida de uno o varios idiomas. 

Explic? que el aumento de lenguas en el pa?s se debe a los emigrantes
guatemaltecos que se establecen en las fronteras, quienes aparecen en
registros del Instituto Nacional de Estad?stica, Geograf?a e Inform?tica
(INEGI) y que a veces superan a los hablantes de otras zonas. 

De acuerdo con Luz Mar?a Vald?s Gonz?lez, integrante del Instituto de
Investigaciones Jur?dicas (IIJ) la poblaci?n ind?gena se un segmento que
demogr?ficamente avanza dos veces m?s que el resto de la poblaci?n. 

Seg?n el Consejo Nacional de Poblaci?n (Conapo) , la tasa de crecimiento
demogr?fico es de entre 1.2 y 1.3 por ciento anual, pero las comunidades
aut?ctonas crecen a raz?n de 3.8 por ciento al a?o, por lo que su poblaci?n
se duplicar? en dos d?cadas, mientras que el resto de los mexicanos lo har?
en cuatro o cinco d?cadas. 

Datos del Censo de Poblaci?n y Vivienda de 2000 revelaron que en 1970 hab?a
31 lenguas ind?genas, en 1980, aumentaron a 40, en 1990 llegaron a 92, en
1995 disminuyeron a 81 y en 2000 volvieron a aumentar a 85 lenguas
aut?ctonas. 

Zolla Luque dijo que seg?n censos del INEGI, 81 por ciento de los ind?genas
son biling?es, dominan su lengua y el espa?ol; el resto son monoling?es y
viven en poblaciones muy aisladas y pobres, donde las mujeres son
transmisoras y conservadoras del idioma, pese a ser muy marginadas. 

La din?mica demogr?fica y el fen?meno migratorio han generado situaciones de
triling?ismo en el que, aunado a la lengua ind?gena y el espa?ol aparece el
ingl?s, destac? el acad?mico. 

Explic? que las lenguas est?n amenazadas cuando su uso pierde funcionalidad,
si no se concreta en la vida cotidiana o en el intercambio de mensajes. 

"No es casual el inter?s de los ind?genas por las tecnolog?as de la
informaci?n y la comunicaci?n, sobre todo entre los j?venes, pues si logran
colocar a sus lenguas en la radio, la televisi?n o Internet contribuir?n a
su preservaci?n y desarrollo", expuso. 
Sin embargo, de acuerdo con el antrop?logo Leonardo Manrique, en M?xico hay
21 lenguas amenazadas debido a factores como n?mero de hablantes, dificultad
de mecanismos para su preservaci?n y la migraci?n. 

Por su parte Soren Wchmann, de la Leiden University & Max Planck Institute
for Evolutionary Antrhopology, revel? que la situaci?n de las lenguas
ind?genas en M?xico es mejor que en otras partes de Am?rica, en donde muchas
de ellas desaparecer?n en pocas d?cadas. 

Para Zolla el hecho de conservar una lengua significa preservar, no s?lo una
herramienta de comunicaci?n, sino un patrimonio cultural y como dep?sito de
informaci?n, puso como ejemplo un vocablo n?huatl. 

"Cochitz?potl no s?lo significa zapote blanco, como se le conoce en espa?ol,
sino que en la lengua original quiere decir, zapote fruto dulce del sue?o, o
que induce al sue?o", explic?. 

?? 


From rzs at WILDBLUE.NET  Mon May 12 14:59:40 2008
From: rzs at WILDBLUE.NET (Richard Smith)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 07:59:40 -0700
Subject: The Story Behind Each Word....
In-Reply-To: <6d8c8c410805101146w7b91de6ct4f83e22eeabb74c8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <MON.12.MAY.2008.075940.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Heather,thanks for sharing Silko
I've been thinking alot about this too,
unscientifically of course!

words
thought, spoken, written, even silent
it seems we're shaped by words.
a simple breath of human exhaust
and we're comforted or infuriated

a particular throat vibration
and we're encouraged or undone.
symbols arrive from keyboard or pen
we transliterate them into words

emotion rise inside like steam
twisting themselves into thought.
we can sound them selectively
or we can blurt them carelessly

stories for each word
words for each story.
united by our stories
our people will thrive


Richard Zane Smith
Wyandotte, Oklahoma


On 5/10/08 11:46 AM, "Heather Souter" <hsouter at GMAIL.COM> wrote:

> Taanshi,
> 
> I have been thinking about the use/meaning of "word" and  ran across
> this wonderful quote from Leslie Marmon Silko's work "Ceremony".  I
> cannot match the eloquence of the writer, so I will add no commentary.
>  (None is needed....)
> 
> "But you know, grandson, this world is fragile."
> The word he choose to express fragile was filled with the intricacies
> of a continuing process, and with a strength inherent in spider webs
> woven across paths through sand hills where early in the morning the
> sun becomes entangled in each filament of web.  It took a long time to
> explain the fragility and intricacy because no word exists alone, and
> the reason for choosing each word had to be explained with a story
> about why it must be said this certain way.  That was the
> responsibility that went with being human...,the story behind each
> word must be told so that there could be no mistake in the meaning of
> what had been said; and this demanded great patience and love.
> Ceremony, pp.35-36, Leslie Marmon Silko, 1977
> 
> Eekoshi pitamaa.
> Heather


From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Mon May 12 15:59:14 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 08:59:14 -0700
Subject: Amazon peoples remain unreached (fwd link)
Message-ID: <MON.12.MAY.2008.085914.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Amazon peoples remain unreached

Posted on May 9, 2008 | by Shawn Hendricks
The Baptist Press

RICHMOND, Va. (BP)--Weary travelers stand alongside a river somewhere in South
America's Amazon Basin.

After three hours of trying to maneuver upstream by motorboat to a remote
village, a group of International Mission Board missionaries grudgingly accepts
the realization that the day's journey has ended. Shallow waters, exposed rocks,
tree limbs and a rough current that nearly capsized the boat won't allow the
group to go any farther.

Score a victory for the Amazon.

Thousands of miles of dense jungle create a daunting "wall" for those wanting to
take the Gospel to this area. For some of the people groups in remote areas,
their only hope to hear about Jesus is through faithful Christians praying that
the Gospel message will reach them.

Access full article below:
http://www.bpnews.net/BPnews.asp?ID=28027


From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Mon May 12 16:03:03 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 09:03:03 -0700
Subject: Audio Bible Ministry Reaches Amazon Tribes (fwd link)
Message-ID: <MON.12.MAY.2008.090303.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Audio Bible Ministry Reaches Amazon Tribes

Audio Bibles are reaching the farthest corners of the earth.

Albuquerque, NM (PRWEB) May 12, 2008 -- Audio Bibles are reaching the farthest
corners of the earth.

In the Brazilian rain forest, the small village of Makita sits along the muddy
banks of an Amazon River tributary. When the conditions are ideal, the trip
takes two days by boat.

Jeff Scott, an American church leader, and his short-term mission team arrive at
Makita and are welcomed by the villagers and swarms of mosquitoes and flies.

Scott and his team notice a small church building that was built by a previous
mission team. Inside, bats rest overhead and tarantulas patrol dark corners. In
this village and the thousands like it, which dot the Amazon's riverbanks,
people live with limited access to clean water, the outside world and the Word
of God.

In fact, Brazil has 258 tribes, and almost as many different languages - 235.
More than 90 of these tribes are cut off from the outside world, living deep in
the rain forest and firmly protected by the Brazilian government. Out of these
258 tribes, only 20 have strong, indigenous church leadership.

Access full article below:
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2008/5/prweb932384.htm


From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Mon May 12 16:05:31 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 09:05:31 -0700
Subject: Reaching the people (fwd link)
Message-ID: <MON.12.MAY.2008.090531.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Reaching the people

Indian Country Today
Posted: May 12, 2008
by: Lisa Garrigues / Today correspondent
Mayan TV broadcasts in Guatemala

HOUSTON - The time was right. On April 23, a television station that once was
the voice of the Guatemalan military dictatorship that had massacred thousands
of Mayans showed the glyph of the day from the millennial Mayan calendar and
announced itself as ''TV Maya: Guatemala's multi-cultural station.''

The indigenous people of Guatemala finally had their own television station.

''This is a dream that indigenous people have had for many years: to have a
means of communication,'' Mayan Nobel Peace Prize winner Rigoberta Menchu told
Agence France-Presse at the official inauguration of the station, which was
also attended by Guatemalan President Alvaro Colom and other dignitaries.

The station, funded by the Guatemalan Academy of Mayan Languages (ALMG),
broadcasts for 30 minutes, three times a day, showing programs that teach Mayan
culture, worldview and language. Its programs are broadcast in indigenous
languages with Spanish subtitles.

Access full article below:
http://www.indiancountry.com/content.cfm?id=1096417261


From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Mon May 12 16:07:29 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 09:07:29 -0700
Subject: UMD to host Minnesota Indigenous Language Symposium IV (fwd link)
Message-ID: <MON.12.MAY.2008.090729.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

UMD to host Minnesota Indigenous Language Symposium IV

Pine Journal
Published Friday, May 09, 2008

he University of Minnesota Duluth (UMD) Eni-gikendaasoyang/Center for Indigenous
Knowledge and Language Revitalization will host the Minnesota Indigenous
Language Symposium IV on May 12 and 13 at the Holiday Inn Hotel in downtown
Duluth.

The two-day event will feature presentations and discussions on technology
advances in language revitalization, best practices in language immersion, and
policy and advocacy work. World-leading language revitalization professionals
from Hawaii and New Zealand will make major presentations.

Access full article below:
http://www.cloquetmn.com/articles/index.cfm?id=13453&section=News


From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Mon May 12 16:14:24 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 09:14:24 -0700
Subject: Last Speaker Of Tribal Language Teaches Others (fwd link)
Message-ID: <MON.12.MAY.2008.091424.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Last Speaker Of Tribal Language Teaches Others

Kern River Valley Tubatulabal Tribesman Helps Create Dictionary

POSTED: 10:02 am PDT May 9, 2008
UPDATED: 12:09 pm PDT May 9, 2008

KERN RIVER VALLEY, Calif. -- The last known speaker of a North American tribal
language is now helping others learn the language.

Hundreds of years ago in Kern County, before one word of English or Spanish was
ever uttered, people communicated in Native American dialects.

Though most Native American languages have disappeared, there is still hope for
one local language with a man who is its last speaker.

Pakaanil, the native language of the Tubatulabal tribes of the Kern River
Valley, is a language that has been spoken for hundreds, possibly thousands of
years in Kern County.

What makes this language so unique is the man who is speaking these words. Jim
Andreas, 77, is the last known native speaker of Pakaanil.

Access full article below:
http://www.turnto23.com/news/16214187/detail.html


From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Tue May 13 16:20:37 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 09:20:37 -0700
Subject: 'Dreamtime' over in Aboriginal studies (fwd link)
Message-ID: <TUE.13.MAY.2008.092037.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

'Dreamtime' over in Aboriginal studies

Justine Ferrari and Lauren Wilson | May 12, 2008

DREAMTIME is no longer an acceptable term to describe the collection of
Aboriginal creation stories, and should be referred to as The Dreaming or The
Dreamings.

And the structure of traditional Aboriginal society should not be described as
primitive - but as complex and diverse, and the term "native" should be
replaced by "indigenous groups" or "language groups".

Advice for teaching indigenous students, which has been prepared by the West
Australian and South Australian education departments, contains lists of
appropriate words to describe Aboriginal people and culture.

The West Australian document, part of its Aboriginal Perspectives Across the
Curriculum project, contains the headings "less appropriate terminology" and
"more appropriate terminology", and sets out unsuitable words and their
substitutes.

Access full article below:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23682161-2702,00.html


From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Tue May 13 17:30:34 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 10:30:34 -0700
Subject: build a font for your endangered language...
Message-ID: <TUE.13.MAY.2008.103034.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

fyi,

For the font deprived and character challenged, take a look at this.  fontstruct
is a free online Flash-based  (non-kerning and non-b?zier-ing) tool that makes
it fairly easy to create a TrueType font from scratch.

fontstruct
http://fontstruct.fontshop.com/


From candaceg at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Tue May 13 19:04:35 2008
From: candaceg at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (Candace K. Galla)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 12:04:35 -0700
Subject: American Indian Language Development Institute 2008
In-Reply-To: <9a6736790801181159n7fe18178m8dfcfc7d44ccda82@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.13.MAY.2008.120435.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

**
 Announcing the 29th Annual American Indian Language Development Institute

June 4 - July 2, 2008
University of Arizona

*Creating Spaces for Indigenous Languages in Everyday Life*
**


The University of Arizona and Department of Language, Reading & Culture
invite you to the 29th American Indian Language Development Institute
(AILDI). AILDI 2008 will have a special focus on Native teachers in the
classroom and language. Special topics will include NCLB & Native students,
language immersion methods in the classroom, Native children's literature &
writing and schooling in Native American communities. Our theme, *Creating
Spaces for Indigenous Languages in Everyday Life *reflects this emphasis and
will be highlighted with guest speakers, presentations, activities,
projects, and fieldtrips.






AILDI provides a unique educational experience for teachers of Native
children. The AILDI format offers Native and non-Native teachers the
opportunity to become researchers, practitioners, bilingual/bicultural
curriculum specialists, and especially effective language teachers. The
common concern of language loss, revitalization and maintenance brings
educators, parents, tribal leaders and community members to this university
setting to study methods for teaching Native languages and cultures and to
develop materials.







AILDI offers six graduate credits or undergraduate credit hours during four
weeks of intensive study. Courses can be applied toward regular degree
programs and teacher endorsements.
       Please visit our website at http://www.u.arizona.edu/~aildi for more
information.

Best,
Candace K. Galla
Ph.D Student, LRC
Graduate Assistant
American Indian Language Development Institute
Department of Language, Reading & Culture
College of Education, Room 517
P.O. Box 210069
Tucson, AZ 85721-0069
(520) 621-1068, Fax (520)621-8174
www.u.arizona.edu/~aildi
candaceg at email.arizona.edu
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From wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU  Tue May 13 22:15:32 2008
From: wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU (William J Poser)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 18:15:32 -0400
Subject: build a font for your endangered language...
In-Reply-To: <20080513103034.gj3r3qcokcoso800@www.email.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <TUE.13.MAY.2008.181532.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Another useful tool, albeit one that requires installation and is
a little harder to use than fontstruct, is FontForge:
http://fontforge.sourceforge.net/
which allows you to create fonts, convert them from one type to another,
change the encoding, and edit them in a variety of ways. It is also
possible to use it to take glyphs from different fonts and combine them
into a single font.

Bill


From aidan at USYD.EDU.AU  Tue May 13 23:07:14 2008
From: aidan at USYD.EDU.AU (Aidan Wilson)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 09:07:14 +1000
Subject: build a font for your endangered language...
In-Reply-To: <20080513221532.9DCCAB24F6@lorax.ldc.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.14.MAY.2008.090714.1000.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Hmm, I just tried to download fontforge via the linux repositories, and 
it appears that it comes by default with Ubuntu 8.04. Excellent.

-Aidan

On 14/05/08 08:15, William J Poser said:
> Another useful tool, albeit one that requires installation and is
> a little harder to use than fontstruct, is FontForge:
> http://fontforge.sourceforge.net/
> which allows you to create fonts, convert them from one type to another,
> change the encoding, and edit them in a variety of ways. It is also
> possible to use it to take glyphs from different fonts and combine them
> into a single font.
>
> Bill
>   


From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Wed May 14 16:39:19 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 09:39:19 -0700
Subject: Thornton Media in Banning hopes to keep Native American languages
 alive (fwd link)
Message-ID: <WED.14.MAY.2008.093919.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Thornton Media in Banning hopes to keep Native American languages alive

10:00 PM PDT on Tuesday, May 13, 2008
By SHARILYN BANKOLE
Special to The Press-Enterprise

What's new: Thornton Media in Banning has developed a video game featuring
Native American languages.

What it does: Thornton creates unique tools aimed at preserving, teaching and
translating dying Native American languages. The company's products are
manufactured using the latest technological advances in linguistic electronics,
said company spokeswoman and business partner Kara Thornton. The work is a
passion she shares with her husband, company founder Don Thornton, whose mother
is Cherokee.

Access full article below:
http://www.pe.com/localnews/inland/stories/PE_News_Local_B_b2scrapbook14.3e24432.html


From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Wed May 14 16:46:50 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 09:46:50 -0700
Subject: Research and teaching of Indigenous language and culture leads to
 prestigious $300,000 fellowship for CDU academic (fwd link)
Message-ID: <WED.14.MAY.2008.094650.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Research and teaching of Indigenous language and culture leads to prestigious
$300,000 fellowship for CDU academic

Australia
Charles Darwin University
14 May 2008

Charles Darwin University?s Associate Professor Michael Christie has been
awarded the 2008 prestigious Senior Australian Teaching and Learning
Fellowship, valued at $300,000, to continue his work integrating Aboriginal
culture and practices into tertiary teaching.

The aim of the Fellowship Scheme, awarded by the Australian Learning and
Teaching Council ? formerly the Carrick Institute ? is to advance learning and
teaching in higher education by supporting leading educators to undertake
strategic, high-profile fellowship activities in areas that support the
continued development of learning and teaching in Australian higher education.

The program planned by Dr Christie, entitled ?Increasing the participation of
Indigenous knowledge holders in tertiary teaching through the use of emerging
digital technologies?, is designed to further the collaboration between Yolngu
educators and consultants in East Arnhem Land, the School of Australian
Indigenous Knowledge Systems, the School of Education, and the School of
Creative Arts and Humanities.

Access full article below:
http://www.cdu.edu.au/newsroom/story.php?nID=2672


From langendt at U.ARIZONA.EDU  Thu May 15 01:02:28 2008
From: langendt at U.ARIZONA.EDU (Terry Langendoen)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 18:02:28 -0700
Subject: FW: FEL Awards 2008
Message-ID: <WED.14.MAY.2008.180228.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Forwarded message from Nick Ostler, Foundation for Endangered
Languages
________________________________

From: Nicholas Ostler [mailto:nicholas.ostler at googlemail.com]
Sent: Wed 5/14/2008 5:15 PM
To: nostler at chibcha.demon.co.uk
Subject: FEL Awards 2008

I am glad to announce to members the results of this year's grant
awards by the Foundation for Endangered Languages. They are as
follows, each with the applicant's description of the intended
work which we shall be supporting:

John Hobson, University of Sydney, re Banjalang (Northern Rivers
district, NSW, Australia)

US$1450.

1. To conduct an Australian demonstration trial of the
Master-Apprentice method in the revitalisation of an endangered
language that will inform the development of policy and practice
at state and national levels.

2. To provide qualified and experienced indigenous language
teachers with an opportunity to acquire sufficient fluency in
their ancestral language to permit them to transmit it to
students in contemporary classroom settings.

3. To evidence to Banjalang communities that adult
intergenerational transmission of their language is possible.

4. To produce and disseminate recordings of Banjalang dialogue.

5. To stimulate the increased use of spoken Banjalang in a broad
range of contexts.

6. To foster awareness of Banjalang and the need and potential
for its revitalisation.


Chun Huang, University of Florida, re Siraya (Taiwan)

US$1000.

1. Finalization of a modern Siraya dictionary and its publication
in 2008.

2. Preparation of Siraya-learning materials for Siraya Language &
Culture Summer Camp, 2008.


Javier Ruedas, University of New Orleans, re Marubo (upper Curu??
River, Amazonas state, Brazil)

US$1000.

a.  Record, transcribe, and translate saiti, a form of sung myth,
known fully by very few elderly Marubo, and store these along
with extensive metadata in linked computer files

b.  Digitize recordings and transcriptions that have already been
made by the speech community

c.  Help generate contexts for systematic, interpersonal,
intergenerational transmission of specialized language registers

d.  Produce CDs and other digital media for use by the speech
community and by NGOs working in indigenous education among the
Marubo

e.  Produce educational materials based on transcribed and
translated texts


Molly Babel, Mono Lake Northern Paiute (Bridgeport, California,
USA)

US$550.

1. Produce written text collection of traditional narratives with
Northern Paiute and English text and accompanying audio CD

2. Produce follow along children's book with Northern Paiute and
English text and accompanying audio CD


April Counceller, Alutiiq or Sugpiaq/Pacific Eskimo (Kodiak
Island, AK, USA)

US$1000.

1. To advance knowledge of the Alutiiq language among rural
Alutiiq Elementary students and other learners

2. To document environmental language information with fluent
Elders

3 To develop resources for language learning accessible to
educators, cultural organizations and language learners


The Foundation is conscious that there were many other deserving
cases, but sadly US$5,000 was all we had to give away this year.

--
Nicholas Ostler
Chairman, Foundation for Endangered Languages
Registered Charity: England & Wales 1070616
172 Bailbrook Lane, Bath BA1 7AA, England
Phone: +44 (0)1225-852865 Mobile: (0)7720-889319
www.ogmios.org <http://www.ogmios.org/>
nostler at chibcha.demon.co.uk


From rzs at WILDBLUE.NET  Thu May 15 18:08:24 2008
From: rzs at WILDBLUE.NET (Richard Smith)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 11:08:24 -0700
Subject: Amazon peoples remain unreached (fwd link)
In-Reply-To: <20080512085914.w4dlsgoo84w8sgs4@www.email.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <THU.15.MAY.2008.110824.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

sorry i can't help but respond
"unreached?" 
   amazing 
a Creator who can design bees and ants to communicate truth
even incredible complicated messages
somehow can't "reach" human beings without missionaries

Richard Zane Smith
Wyandotte Oklahoma

On 5/12/08 8:59 AM, "phil cash cash" <cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU> wrote:

> Amazon peoples remain unreached
> 
> Posted on May 9, 2008 | by Shawn Hendricks
> The Baptist Press
> 
> RICHMOND, Va. (BP)--Weary travelers stand alongside a river somewhere in South
> America's Amazon Basin.
> 
> After three hours of trying to maneuver upstream by motorboat to a remote
> village, a group of International Mission Board missionaries grudgingly
> accepts
> the realization that the day's journey has ended. Shallow waters, exposed
> rocks,
> tree limbs and a rough current that nearly capsized the boat won't allow the
> group to go any farther.
> 
> Score a victory for the Amazon.
> 
> Thousands of miles of dense jungle create a daunting "wall" for those wanting
> to
> take the Gospel to this area. For some of the people groups in remote areas,
> their only hope to hear about Jesus is through faithful Christians praying
> that
> the Gospel message will reach them.
> 
> Access full article below:
> http://www.bpnews.net/BPnews.asp?ID=28027


From hsouter at GMAIL.COM  Thu May 15 16:48:44 2008
From: hsouter at GMAIL.COM (Heather Souter)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 11:48:44 -0500
Subject: Amazon peoples remain unreached (fwd link)
In-Reply-To: <C451CA28.47EF%rzs@wildblue.net>
Message-ID: <THU.15.MAY.2008.114844.0500.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Taanshi,

I am with you, Richard!

Just some more musings....

Unreached (and untouched) by missionaries....  Considering the damage
undone to many indigenous peoples in the name of "God"....  Perhaps
the power of the "WORD of God" might be better used working for
protection of these peoples' traditional territories!  That would be a
much more constructive to act out the "Gospel".  These missionaries
sound like a bunch religious "Indiana Jones" types!  I guess when you
are in the business of saving souls, respect can be thrown out the
window!  (Interestingly enough, I think the stories of Jesus
interaction with others are always seem to be respectful in
nature....)

Eekoshi pitamaa.
Heather

On 5/15/08, Richard Smith <rzs at wildblue.net> wrote:
> sorry i can't help but respond
>  "unreached?"
>    amazing
>  a Creator who can design bees and ants to communicate truth
>  even incredible complicated messages
>  somehow can't "reach" human beings without missionaries
>
>  Richard Zane Smith
>  Wyandotte Oklahoma
>
>
>  On 5/12/08 8:59 AM, "phil cash cash" <cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU> wrote:
>
>  > Amazon peoples remain unreached
>  >
>  > Posted on May 9, 2008 | by Shawn Hendricks
>  > The Baptist Press
>  >
>  > RICHMOND, Va. (BP)--Weary travelers stand alongside a river somewhere in South
>  > America's Amazon Basin.
>  >
>  > After three hours of trying to maneuver upstream by motorboat to a remote
>  > village, a group of International Mission Board missionaries grudgingly
>  > accepts
>  > the realization that the day's journey has ended. Shallow waters, exposed
>  > rocks,
>  > tree limbs and a rough current that nearly capsized the boat won't allow the
>  > group to go any farther.
>  >
>  > Score a victory for the Amazon.
>  >
>  > Thousands of miles of dense jungle create a daunting "wall" for those wanting
>  > to
>  > take the Gospel to this area. For some of the people groups in remote areas,
>  > their only hope to hear about Jesus is through faithful Christians praying
>  > that
>  > the Gospel message will reach them.
>  >
>  > Access full article below:
>  > http://www.bpnews.net/BPnews.asp?ID=28027
>


From Rrlapier at AOL.COM  Thu May 15 22:28:20 2008
From: Rrlapier at AOL.COM (Rrlapier at AOL.COM)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 18:28:20 EDT
Subject: JOBS: Chickasaw Cultural Center
Message-ID: <THU.15.MAY.2008.182820.EDT.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>



 
  
____________________________________
 From: acobb at unm.edu
Reply-to: aio_ambassadors at yahoogroups.com
To:  aio_ambassadors at yahoogroups.com
Sent: 5/15/2008 4:06:10 P.M. Mountain  Daylight Time
Subj: [aio_ambassadors] Chickasaw Cultural Center



 
 
Hey out there, Ambassadors,

HELP!

I've moved back home and  work for my tribe now--I'm 
overseeing our division of history and culture,  which 
includes the Chickasaw Cultural Center Complex (currently 
under  construction)under  construction)<WBR>. It
cultural center in the  nation when it is completed and 
includes an exhibit center, IMAX theater  and cafe, 
amphitheater, traditional village, library/research 
center,  and administration/center,  and administration/
we will begin a  performing arts center. The campus sits 
on 109 acres in Sulphur, Oklahoma  next to a national park. 
It's scheduled to open about a year from now. It  is 
really going to be something special.

Here's where you guys come  in: I have jobs coming out my 
ears and, I'm looking for Native  museum/tourism people to 
come on board. These are GREAT jobs--they  include:

Directors of Museum Education and Business  Operations
Visitor Services Managers
Outreach and Education  Staff
Multimedia/Tech/Multimedia/Te
Conservators and  Registrars
Curators and Exhibit Designers
Archivists
Marketing  Staff

Anybody interested? Short term or long term--we need more  
people to really open this in the right way. Steve and I 
have been  back in Oklahoma for a year and a half now, and 
we have to say . . . .  Oklahoma is easy living and the 
Chickasaw Nation is an excellent place to  work. If you 
know of anyone who might be interested, please give them  
my email addresses: _acobb at unm.edu_ (mailto:acobb at unm.edu)  and 
_amanda.cobb at amanda.cobama_ (mailto:amanda.cobb at chickasaw.net) .

Sister  Susan, are you out there? What's your phone 
number?!

Love to  all,
Amanda
Class of 98


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__,_._,___ 




**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family 
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From wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU  Fri May 16 01:03:05 2008
From: wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU (William J Poser)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 21:03:05 -0400
Subject: clip art collection
Message-ID: <THU.15.MAY.2008.210305.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

People looking for clip art for teaching materials might want to
check out: http://www.wpclipart.com
They have a collection of public domain clip art, all in lossless PNG
format, currently totalling 21,005 images. You can use their search
function to find the specific items you are looking for, or download
the whole thing, which comes to just under 700MB.

Bill
 


From rzs at WILDBLUE.NET  Fri May 16 06:06:40 2008
From: rzs at WILDBLUE.NET (Richard Smith)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 23:06:40 -0700
Subject: Amazon peoples remain unreached (fwd link)
In-Reply-To: <6d8c8c410805150948n377e40cfh5878778c320ac7a6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <THU.15.MAY.2008.230640.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Kweh Heather,

It seems He was patient and gentle with the poor and needy, but
actually Yeshua didn't have much patience with the religious leaders
of the time :
"You hypocrits! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert
and ... make them twice a son of Ge-henom as you are!"

Good suggestions!
There ARE compassionate outsiders who work to bring clean water
to villages and use engineer skills and medicine along with indigenous
savy to better peoples lives....but sadly, protecting indigenous lands
doesn't seem to be a priority for most mission "outreaches"

Richard Zane Smith
Wyandotte Oklahoma



On 5/15/08 9:48 AM, "Heather Souter" <hsouter at GMAIL.COM> wrote:

> Taanshi,
> 
> I am with you, Richard!
> 
> Just some more musings....
> 
> Unreached (and untouched) by missionaries....  Considering the damage
> undone to many indigenous peoples in the name of "God"....  Perhaps
> the power of the "WORD of God" might be better used working for
> protection of these peoples' traditional territories!  That would be a
> much more constructive to act out the "Gospel".  These missionaries
> sound like a bunch religious "Indiana Jones" types!  I guess when you
> are in the business of saving souls, respect can be thrown out the
> window!  (Interestingly enough, I think the stories of Jesus
> interaction with others are always seem to be respectful in
> nature....)
> 
> Eekoshi pitamaa.
> Heather
> 
> On 5/15/08, Richard Smith <rzs at wildblue.net> wrote:
>> sorry i can't help but respond
>>  "unreached?"
>>    amazing
>>  a Creator who can design bees and ants to communicate truth
>>  even incredible complicated messages
>>  somehow can't "reach" human beings without missionaries
>> 
>>  Richard Zane Smith
>>  Wyandotte Oklahoma
>> 
>> 
>>  On 5/12/08 8:59 AM, "phil cash cash" <cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU> wrote:
>> 
>>> Amazon peoples remain unreached
>>> 
>>> Posted on May 9, 2008 | by Shawn Hendricks
>>> The Baptist Press
>>> 
>>> RICHMOND, Va. (BP)--Weary travelers stand alongside a river somewhere in
>>> South
>>> America's Amazon Basin.
>>> 
>>> After three hours of trying to maneuver upstream by motorboat to a remote
>>> village, a group of International Mission Board missionaries grudgingly
>>> accepts
>>> the realization that the day's journey has ended. Shallow waters, exposed
>>> rocks,
>>> tree limbs and a rough current that nearly capsized the boat won't allow the
>>> group to go any farther.
>>> 
>>> Score a victory for the Amazon.
>>> 
>>> Thousands of miles of dense jungle create a daunting "wall" for those
>>> wanting
>>> to
>>> take the Gospel to this area. For some of the people groups in remote areas,
>>> their only hope to hear about Jesus is through faithful Christians praying
>>> that
>>> the Gospel message will reach them.
>>> 
>>> Access full article below:
>>> http://www.bpnews.net/BPnews.asp?ID=28027
>> 


From hsouter at GMAIL.COM  Fri May 16 04:43:23 2008
From: hsouter at GMAIL.COM (Heather Souter)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 23:43:23 -0500
Subject: Amazon peoples remain unreached (fwd link)
In-Reply-To: <C4527280.47FB%rzs@wildblue.net>
Message-ID: <THU.15.MAY.2008.234323.0500.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Taanshi, Richard,

I wish those missionaries could hear the WORDS you quoted!  But, then again,
perhaps they wouldn't recognize anything of themselves....

Eekoshi pitamaa.
Heather

PS: Kihchi-maarsii (thank-you very much) for sharing your poetry in a
previous thread!



On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 1:06 AM, Richard Smith <rzs at wildblue.net> wrote:

> Kweh Heather,
>
> It seems He was patient and gentle with the poor and needy, but
> actually Yeshua didn't have much patience with the religious leaders
> of the time :
> "You hypocrits! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert
> and ... make them twice a son of Ge-henom as you are!"
>
> Good suggestions!
> There ARE compassionate outsiders who work to bring clean water
> to villages and use engineer skills and medicine along with indigenous
> savy to better peoples lives....but sadly, protecting indigenous lands
> doesn't seem to be a priority for most mission "outreaches"
>
> Richard Zane Smith
> Wyandotte Oklahoma
>
>
>
> On 5/15/08 9:48 AM, "Heather Souter" <hsouter at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>
> > Taanshi,
> >
> > I am with you, Richard!
> >
> > Just some more musings....
> >
> > Unreached (and untouched) by missionaries....  Considering the damage
> > undone to many indigenous peoples in the name of "God"....  Perhaps
> > the power of the "WORD of God" might be better used working for
> > protection of these peoples' traditional territories!  That would be a
> > much more constructive to act out the "Gospel".  These missionaries
> > sound like a bunch religious "Indiana Jones" types!  I guess when you
> > are in the business of saving souls, respect can be thrown out the
> > window!  (Interestingly enough, I think the stories of Jesus
> > interaction with others are always seem to be respectful in
> > nature....)
> >
> > Eekoshi pitamaa.
> > Heather
> >
> > On 5/15/08, Richard Smith <rzs at wildblue.net> wrote:
> >> sorry i can't help but respond
> >>  "unreached?"
> >>    amazing
> >>  a Creator who can design bees and ants to communicate truth
> >>  even incredible complicated messages
> >>  somehow can't "reach" human beings without missionaries
> >>
> >>  Richard Zane Smith
> >>  Wyandotte Oklahoma
> >>
> >>
> >>  On 5/12/08 8:59 AM, "phil cash cash" <cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Amazon peoples remain unreached
> >>>
> >>> Posted on May 9, 2008 | by Shawn Hendricks
> >>> The Baptist Press
> >>>
> >>> RICHMOND, Va. (BP)--Weary travelers stand alongside a river somewhere
> in
> >>> South
> >>> America's Amazon Basin.
> >>>
> >>> After three hours of trying to maneuver upstream by motorboat to a
> remote
> >>> village, a group of International Mission Board missionaries grudgingly
> >>> accepts
> >>> the realization that the day's journey has ended. Shallow waters,
> exposed
> >>> rocks,
> >>> tree limbs and a rough current that nearly capsized the boat won't
> allow the
> >>> group to go any farther.
> >>>
> >>> Score a victory for the Amazon.
> >>>
> >>> Thousands of miles of dense jungle create a daunting "wall" for those
> >>> wanting
> >>> to
> >>> take the Gospel to this area. For some of the people groups in remote
> areas,
> >>> their only hope to hear about Jesus is through faithful Christians
> praying
> >>> that
> >>> the Gospel message will reach them.
> >>>
> >>> Access full article below:
> >>> http://www.bpnews.net/BPnews.asp?ID=28027
> >>
>
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From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Fri May 16 06:18:25 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 23:18:25 -0700
Subject: Goodbye Dr. Marika
Message-ID: <THU.15.MAY.2008.231825.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

A very beautiful lady whom I had a chance to meet, be inspired by, and a look up
to has passed on.  She was a true advocate for her Yolngu people and language
and so much more.

Phil Cash Cash
UofA
~~~

Scholar, cultural protector Dr R.Marika dies at 49
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23688827-5013172,00.html

Passing of Dr R Marika
http://www.jennymacklin.fahcsia.gov.au/internet/jennymacklin.nsf/content/drmarika_12may08.htm


From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Fri May 16 16:01:35 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 09:01:35 -0700
Subject: Harper to apologize for residential school abuse (fwd link)
Message-ID: <FRI.16.MAY.2008.090135.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Harper to apologize for residential school abuse

Updated Thu. May. 15 2008 9:47 PM ET
CTV.ca News Staff

Prime Minister Stephen Harper will make a long-awaited apology for the rampant
abuses at native residential schools on June 11 in Parliament.

Indian Affairs Minister Chuck Strahl made the announcement Thursday saying,
"This is going to be a very meaningful and respectful apology."

The announcement comes before a national aboriginal day of action on May 29 that
may include highway and railroad blockades.

Access full article below:
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080515/residential_apology_080515/20080515?hub=TopStories


From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Fri May 16 16:04:06 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 09:04:06 -0700
Subject: Guide aims to keep language alive (fwd link)
Message-ID: <FRI.16.MAY.2008.090406.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Guide aims to keep language alive

Australia
Posted Fri May 16, 2008 7:12am AEST
Updated Fri May 16, 2008 7:25am AEST

A new guide for schools aims to help Aboriginal people in South Australia's
upper south-east keep their language alive.

Access full article below:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/05/16/2246355.htm


From suomichris at GMAIL.COM  Fri May 16 18:12:45 2008
From: suomichris at GMAIL.COM (Christopher Doty)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 11:12:45 -0700
Subject: NILI Summer Institute 2008
Message-ID: <FRI.16.MAY.2008.111245.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Please join us for the 11th annual NILI Summer Institute at the
University of Oregon July 7th - 18th, 2008. Courses will cover a range
of topics, including Northwest Native languages, linguistics,
materials and technology, and teaching methods.  This year, we will
explore ways that parents, programs and language teachers can
encourage language use outside the classroom.

Courses offered:

Teaching Methods for Indian Languages:  Language in the Home (1 credit)

	Instructor:  Lindsay Marean

Classroom Materials and Technology  (1 credit)

	Instructors:  Chris Doty, Judith Fernandes

Introduction to Linguistics (1 credit)

	Instructor: Janne Underriner

 Introduction to Sahaptin Linguistics (1 credit)

	Instructor: Joana Jansen

Advanced Linguistics for NW Indian Languages (1 credit)

	Instructor: TBA

Chinuk Wawa (1 credit)

	Instructor: Tony Johnson

Sahaptin (1 credit)

	Instructor: Virginia Beavert

Lushootseed - A Total Immersion language Class  (1 credit)

	Instructor: Zalmai (Zeke) Zahir

For complete course descriptions and costs, please see
http://www.uoregon.edu/~nwili/institute.html



Weekend Workshop: July 11-13, 2008

?>>><<<? A Basket Story and Mapping Language to Land: Language in the
Home ?>>><<<?

It is vital for communities, teachers and language programs to develop
strategies to bring language home to the families, and encourage
families to participate within the classroom. This workshop will
develop curriculum and materials that connect the classroom with the
home.

Mnemonic devices are objects that cause us to remember a topic.  For
example, a picture of a "cat" can help remind a student of the word
for cat, or even a story about their own pet.  Different objects
create different memories for all of us. The curriculum and lesson
plans we will be covering during the weekend workshop involve
developing two different mnemonic devices to get language used in the
home.  They are as follows:

A Basket Story: Baskets are an integral part to indigenous culture.
They  "weave" our lives into connections with nature, materials,
elders, stories, history, and much, much more.  Each individual's
basket story is different, though everyone's is significant.  Some
stories are straight forward, going in a straight line with a clear
beginning and end.  Other stories are tightly woven and cover several
themes.  They can cover current events, as well as, traditional
history.  Such is the diversity of basketry.  Some baskets are only
one material, woven under, over, under, over?  Others are tightly
twisted, involving several resources and have intricate designs.  Some
baskets are only woven with traditional materials, while others
incorporate contemporary materials, meshing new with old.

Each language program will be selecting a tribal basket story for this
workshop.  If you can, bring a basket, or photo of a weaver or basket
that you would like to use to tell your story.  This object will be
the center piece for your lesson plan development and mnemonic device.

Mapping Language to Land:  Everyone has stories when traveling.  They
usually begin with, "This is where I locked my keys in the car when?"
or, "This is where my grandfather use to take me hunting?"  or,  "My
tribe picks berries on that hill, because?. and that is why it is
called?." As in basket stories, each of these stories are unique.
This is not literally language in the home, but what is meant by
language in the home is language used by families, and we are usually
with our families (at least close friends) when we are traveling in a
vehicle.

Each language group will be coming up with their own story that is
tied to the land.  Hence: they will be creating curriculum around the
idea of Mapping Language to Land.  The actual location will serve as
the mnemonic device.  Please try to have some story ideas that will
tie your language to the land.

Zalmai (Zeke) Zahir will lead the workshop. He is a scholar and
instructor of the Lushootseed language and culture. For over thirty
years he has studied with elderly speakers, researching, transcribing
and translating Lushootseed. He has authored and co-authored a number
of Lushootseed language publications

The workshop follows the theme of Language in the Home, and will run a
half day Friday, all day Saturday, and Sunday morning. It will be a
required part of the curriculum for full summer institute
participants, but also available for those of you who can't make it
for the full institute.

--

For more information on the Summer Institute, please see
http://www.uoregon.edu/~nwili/institute.html

Priority registration deadline: June 2, 2008.  Registration forms are
available at http://www.uoregon.edu/~nwili/institute.html  After June
2, 2008, registration will be on a space-available basis.

We hope to see you in Eugene this summer!

Northwest Indian Language Institute

University of Oregon
1629 Moss Street
Eugene, OR  97403
nwili at uoregon.edu
phone 541.346.0730
fax 541.346.6086


From suomichris at GMAIL.COM  Fri May 16 18:59:33 2008
From: suomichris at GMAIL.COM (Christopher Doty)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 11:59:33 -0700
Subject: build a font for your endangered language...
In-Reply-To: <20080513221532.9DCCAB24F6@lorax.ldc.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <FRI.16.MAY.2008.115933.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Having resources like these to build a font can be extremely valuable.
 However, keep in mind that any font developed using this systems is
going to be VERY limited.  You're not going to be able to send emails
in the language, or use other forms of technology very easily.

Just something to keep in mind when developing a font...

Chris

On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 3:15 PM, William J Poser <wjposer at ldc.upenn.edu> wrote:
> Another useful tool, albeit one that requires installation and is
> a little harder to use than fontstruct, is FontForge:
> http://fontforge.sourceforge.net/
> which allows you to create fonts, convert them from one type to another,
> change the encoding, and edit them in a variety of ways. It is also
> possible to use it to take glyphs from different fonts and combine them
> into a single font.
>
> Bill
>


From wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU  Fri May 16 19:38:30 2008
From: wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU (William J Poser)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 15:38:30 -0400
Subject: build a font for your endangered language...
In-Reply-To: <a1173fff0805161159x2d14a0f9s62052dff58ff4613@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.16.MAY.2008.153830.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Christopher Doty writes:
>Having resources like these to build a font can be extremely valuable.
>However, keep in mind that any font developed using this systems is
>going to be VERY limited.  You're not going to be able to send emails
>in the language, or use other forms of technology very easily.

I'm not sure why you say this.

If you generate a Truetype or Opentype font, it will be usable on
virtually any computer. The thing to avoid is using non-standard
encodings. If you use a Unicode encoding, then just about any 
reasonably modern software, including email software and web browsers,
will be able to use the font.

It is true, of course, that people will need to download and install
your font in order to use it. The problem of people not knowing
how to do this can be overcome by providing or linking to clear
instructions on font installation for the various operating systems.
It isn't that difficult on any of the systems I am familiar with.
The difficulty that is harder to overcome is that some people may
not have control over the machines they use at work and may be
unable to install fonts even if they know how.

Bill


From suomichris at GMAIL.COM  Fri May 16 19:52:03 2008
From: suomichris at GMAIL.COM (Christopher Doty)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 12:52:03 -0700
Subject: build a font for your endangered language...
In-Reply-To: <20080516193830.26F4CB2478@lorax.ldc.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <FRI.16.MAY.2008.125203.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

The problem is that there are lots of venues where a font simply CAN'T
be installed (cell phones, webmail applications, and blogging
platforms come immediately to mind), as well as public computers, as
you noted.  Developing a font that can't be used in these areas
inherently limits the use of the language, excluding it from use in
many modern contexts which lots of us, especially kids, use on a daily
basis and as our main means of communicating with friends, family, and
colleagues.  This exclusion can reinforce the idea that the language
is something old, historical, out-of-date, that belongs solely in the
past, instead of a vibrant, living entity.

Chris

On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 12:38 PM, William J Poser <wjposer at ldc.upenn.edu> wrote:
> Christopher Doty writes:
>>Having resources like these to build a font can be extremely valuable.
>>However, keep in mind that any font developed using this systems is
>>going to be VERY limited.  You're not going to be able to send emails
>>in the language, or use other forms of technology very easily.
>
> I'm not sure why you say this.
>
> If you generate a Truetype or Opentype font, it will be usable on
> virtually any computer. The thing to avoid is using non-standard
> encodings. If you use a Unicode encoding, then just about any
> reasonably modern software, including email software and web browsers,
> will be able to use the font.
>
> It is true, of course, that people will need to download and install
> your font in order to use it. The problem of people not knowing
> how to do this can be overcome by providing or linking to clear
> instructions on font installation for the various operating systems.
> It isn't that difficult on any of the systems I am familiar with.
> The difficulty that is harder to overcome is that some people may
> not have control over the machines they use at work and may be
> unable to install fonts even if they know how.
>
> Bill
>


From wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU  Fri May 16 20:03:57 2008
From: wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU (William J Poser)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 16:03:57 -0400
Subject: build a font for your endangered language...
In-Reply-To: <a1173fff0805161252g5a2c9e2di97fa074f0b9be90@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.16.MAY.2008.160357.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Christopher Doty writes:
>The problem is that there are lots of venues where a font simply CAN'T
>be installed (cell phones, webmail applications, and blogging
>platforms come immediately to mind), as well as public computers, as
>you noted.

Yes, that is true of cell phones. Is it true of webmail applications
and blogging platforms? I don't have enough experience of webmail to know,
but I have used Movable Type and Wordpress for blogging and they don't
seem to have a problem using whatever fonts I install on my system.

Bill


From suomichris at GMAIL.COM  Fri May 16 20:12:51 2008
From: suomichris at GMAIL.COM (Christopher Doty)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 13:12:51 -0700
Subject: build a font for your endangered language...
In-Reply-To: <20080516200357.09E35B243A@lorax.ldc.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <FRI.16.MAY.2008.131251.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

The problem is more with web-based blogging platforms which, like
email applications, don't allow you to install fonts.  The additional
problem is that, even if you use WordPress, anyone else in the world
who views the blog won't be able to see the characters correctly.  The
same for email: the program you use might allow you to type in any
font you like, but it will likely end up garbled if you're emailing
someone with the hotmail address..

Chris

On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 1:03 PM, William J Poser <wjposer at ldc.upenn.edu> wrote:
> Christopher Doty writes:
>>The problem is that there are lots of venues where a font simply CAN'T
>>be installed (cell phones, webmail applications, and blogging
>>platforms come immediately to mind), as well as public computers, as
>>you noted.
>
> Yes, that is true of cell phones. Is it true of webmail applications
> and blogging platforms? I don't have enough experience of webmail to know,
> but I have used Movable Type and Wordpress for blogging and they don't
> seem to have a problem using whatever fonts I install on my system.
>
> Bill
>


From wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU  Fri May 16 20:24:00 2008
From: wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU (William J Poser)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 16:24:00 -0400
Subject: build a font for your endangered language...
In-Reply-To: <a1173fff0805161312i105cd7cdt3cb2c28a9c9687a7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.16.MAY.2008.162400.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

I'm confused. The web-based blogging platforms don't use the fonts
your system has installed? Are you sure you aren't talking about
fonts that use non-standard ENCODINGS?

Bill


From donaghy at HAWAII.EDU  Fri May 16 21:16:58 2008
From: donaghy at HAWAII.EDU (Keola Donaghy)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 09:16:58 +1200
Subject: build a font for your endangered language...
In-Reply-To: <a1173fff0805161312i105cd7cdt3cb2c28a9c9687a7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SAT.17.MAY.2008.091658.1200.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Aloha We created and used our custom fonts back in 1994 and are still  
slowly trying to wean ourselves from them and switch completely to  
Unicode. Chris nails it - in order for it to work your users need to  
install them or use something like GlyphGate which will embed them in  
the web documents. You can make installation as easy as possible and  
by and large only the hard-core language enthusiast and people who  
absolutely have to will actually install them.

Our custom fonts are largely used now for publishing work since we  
have so many more of those than there are fonts with all of the right  
glyphs in Unicode, but for web use haven't used them in 4-5 years.

Keola


On 17 Mei 2008, at 8:12 AM, Christopher Doty wrote:

> The problem is more with web-based blogging platforms which, like
> email applications, don't allow you to install fonts.  The additional
> problem is that, even if you use WordPress, anyone else in the world
> who views the blog won't be able to see the characters correctly.  The
> same for email: the program you use might allow you to type in any
> font you like, but it will likely end up garbled if you're emailing
> someone with the hotmail address..
>
> Chris
>
> On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 1:03 PM, William J Poser <wjposer at ldc.upenn.edu 
> > wrote:
>> Christopher Doty writes:
>>> The problem is that there are lots of venues where a font simply  
>>> CAN'T
>>> be installed (cell phones, webmail applications, and blogging
>>> platforms come immediately to mind), as well as public computers, as
>>> you noted.
>>
>> Yes, that is true of cell phones. Is it true of webmail applications
>> and blogging platforms? I don't have enough experience of webmail  
>> to know,
>> but I have used Movable Type and Wordpress for blogging and they  
>> don't
>> seem to have a problem using whatever fonts I install on my system.
>>
>> Bill
>>



========================================================================
Keola Donaghy
Assistant Professor of Hawaiian Studies
Ka Haka 'Ula O Ke'elikolani             keola at leoki.uhh.hawaii.edu
University of Hawai'i at Hilo           http://www2.hawaii.edu/~donaghy/

"T?r gan teanga, t?r gan anam."  (Irish Gaelic saying)
A country without its language is a country without its soul.
========================================================================



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From wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU  Fri May 16 22:04:13 2008
From: wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU (William J Poser)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 18:04:13 -0400
Subject: build a font for your endangered language...
In-Reply-To: <26C351BD-288E-4EC3-B376-5834FEA7E910@hawaii.edu>
Message-ID: <FRI.16.MAY.2008.180413.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Keola Donaghy 'uk'uneisguz:

>Aloha We created and used our custom fonts back in 1994 and are
>still slowly trying to wean ourselves from them and switch
>completely to Unicode.

Actually, I think this confirms what I have been saying: using
custom fonts is NOT a problem, except in cases like cell phones
and work machines over which users have no control, where you
can't install them.

The problem is not custom fonts, it is custom ENCODINGS.

Since I think some people may not be clear on the distinction,
let me explain. Text in a computer really consists of a sequence
of character codes, which are non-negative integers. The computer
doesn't really store an "a" - it stores a number which by convention
is associated with the character "a". Once upon a time, in the days
of "dumb terminals" and fixed-encoding keyboards, this was all hard-wired.
When you pressed the "a" key on your keyboard it sent a certain small
integer to your computer, and when the computer sent that same small
integer to the terminal, the terminal displayed the corresponding
glyph. Nowadays it is possible to program what codes are generated by
particular keyboard events and what glyphs are displayed, but
the basic principle is the same: text consists of a sequence of
numbers.

What until recently was by far the most common encoding was ASCII,
in which "a" has the character code 97. (Character codes are normally
given in hexadecimal but I'll translate into decimal here.) "b" is
98, "c" is 99. "A" is 65, "B" is 66, "C" is 67, etc. So, if you
have an ASCII-encoded font containing glyphs for the roman alphabet,
sending the code 98 to the display will select the glyph for "b"
and display it.

For other languages there are other encodings. If, for example,
you use the ARMSCII7 encoding (which you might have done if you
were an Armenian), if you send the code 98 to the display instead
of the letter "b" you would get the Armenian capital letter cha.

Until recently, at best there was a single standard for each language
and writing system, so that everybody would be on the same wavelength
within that language and writing system. Fonts for Armenian or
Russian or Hebrew or whatever would be encoded according to the
standard for that language. Then things would be simple so long
as you were using that language, but would get messy if, say,
you need to use Armenian and English in the same document, or
wanted to write in Russian on a machine set up for Hebrew.
Furthermore, in many cases there were multiple encodings for the
same writing system. Sometimes, every font had its own idiosyncratic
encoding. (The champions seem to be the Ethiopians, who had over
40 known encodings for Amharic.)

In this situation, where every font potentially uses its own
encoding, for other people to use your font it isn't sufficient
for them to install it - their software has to understand its
encoding.

With much current software, so long as your font uses a well-known
encoding, the software can use it because it contains or knows how
to look up information about the encoding. Your browser, for example,
almost certainly (a) attempts to detect the encoding of the web page
it displays and (b) allows you to tell it what encoding to use (in case
it fails to guess correctly - this happens with some frequency, in part
because many web pages lie about their encoding and the browser accepts
the lie). But if you have a truly idiosyncratic encoding in your font,
software may not know what to do with it.

What Unicode does is unify all writing systems into a single encoding.
In Unicode "b" and Armenian capital cha do not compete for the
same codepoint. Instead, "b" is 98 as in ASCII and Armenian capital
cha is 1353. With everything included in a single encoding, you can
mix writing systems easiy within a single document and use one writing
system on a system set up for another.

So, if you create your own font but use Unicode as the encoding,
so long as people are able to install your font they should have no
problem using it. What you should not do is create fonts that use
your own idiosyncratic encoding.

One of the uses of FontForge is in fact reencoding an existing font.
You can see an example of this at:
http://billposer.org/Linguistics/Computation/Reencoding/HowTo.html
The examples used in this tutorial are based on a real task.
I wanted to be able to use Linear B and at the time could only
find a font that used an idiosyncratic encoding. So I took that
font and changed the encoding to Unicode.

Bill


From hsouter at GMAIL.COM  Fri May 16 23:30:10 2008
From: hsouter at GMAIL.COM (Heather Souter)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 18:30:10 -0500
Subject: build a font for your endangered language...
In-Reply-To: <20080516220413.CBAE6B245E@lorax.ldc.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <FRI.16.MAY.2008.183010.0500.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Taanshi,

I am wondering how to go about creating a new character and how to go about
getting a unicode codepoint for it.  What I have in mind is is an <n> with
a</> over it....  Any advice or suggestions?

Kihchi-maarsii!

Eekoshi.
Heather Souter
Michif Language Activist and
Community Linguist

On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 5:04 PM, William J Poser <wjposer at ldc.upenn.edu>
wrote:

> Keola Donaghy 'uk'uneisguz:
>
> >Aloha We created and used our custom fonts back in 1994 and are
> >still slowly trying to wean ourselves from them and switch
> >completely to Unicode.
>
> Actually, I think this confirms what I have been saying: using
> custom fonts is NOT a problem, except in cases like cell phones
> and work machines over which users have no control, where you
> can't install them.
>
> The problem is not custom fonts, it is custom ENCODINGS.
>
> Since I think some people may not be clear on the distinction,
> let me explain. Text in a computer really consists of a sequence
> of character codes, which are non-negative integers. The computer
> doesn't really store an "a" - it stores a number which by convention
> is associated with the character "a". Once upon a time, in the days
> of "dumb terminals" and fixed-encoding keyboards, this was all hard-wired.
> When you pressed the "a" key on your keyboard it sent a certain small
> integer to your computer, and when the computer sent that same small
> integer to the terminal, the terminal displayed the corresponding
> glyph. Nowadays it is possible to program what codes are generated by
> particular keyboard events and what glyphs are displayed, but
> the basic principle is the same: text consists of a sequence of
> numbers.
>
> What until recently was by far the most common encoding was ASCII,
> in which "a" has the character code 97. (Character codes are normally
> given in hexadecimal but I'll translate into decimal here.) "b" is
> 98, "c" is 99. "A" is 65, "B" is 66, "C" is 67, etc. So, if you
> have an ASCII-encoded font containing glyphs for the roman alphabet,
> sending the code 98 to the display will select the glyph for "b"
> and display it.
>
> For other languages there are other encodings. If, for example,
> you use the ARMSCII7 encoding (which you might have done if you
> were an Armenian), if you send the code 98 to the display instead
> of the letter "b" you would get the Armenian capital letter cha.
>
> Until recently, at best there was a single standard for each language
> and writing system, so that everybody would be on the same wavelength
> within that language and writing system. Fonts for Armenian or
> Russian or Hebrew or whatever would be encoded according to the
> standard for that language. Then things would be simple so long
> as you were using that language, but would get messy if, say,
> you need to use Armenian and English in the same document, or
> wanted to write in Russian on a machine set up for Hebrew.
> Furthermore, in many cases there were multiple encodings for the
> same writing system. Sometimes, every font had its own idiosyncratic
> encoding. (The champions seem to be the Ethiopians, who had over
> 40 known encodings for Amharic.)
>
> In this situation, where every font potentially uses its own
> encoding, for other people to use your font it isn't sufficient
> for them to install it - their software has to understand its
> encoding.
>
> With much current software, so long as your font uses a well-known
> encoding, the software can use it because it contains or knows how
> to look up information about the encoding. Your browser, for example,
> almost certainly (a) attempts to detect the encoding of the web page
> it displays and (b) allows you to tell it what encoding to use (in case
> it fails to guess correctly - this happens with some frequency, in part
> because many web pages lie about their encoding and the browser accepts
> the lie). But if you have a truly idiosyncratic encoding in your font,
> software may not know what to do with it.
>
> What Unicode does is unify all writing systems into a single encoding.
> In Unicode "b" and Armenian capital cha do not compete for the
> same codepoint. Instead, "b" is 98 as in ASCII and Armenian capital
> cha is 1353. With everything included in a single encoding, you can
> mix writing systems easiy within a single document and use one writing
> system on a system set up for another.
>
> So, if you create your own font but use Unicode as the encoding,
> so long as people are able to install your font they should have no
> problem using it. What you should not do is create fonts that use
> your own idiosyncratic encoding.
>
> One of the uses of FontForge is in fact reencoding an existing font.
> You can see an example of this at:
> http://billposer.org/Linguistics/Computation/Reencoding/HowTo.html
> The examples used in this tutorial are based on a real task.
> I wanted to be able to use Linear B and at the time could only
> find a font that used an idiosyncratic encoding. So I took that
> font and changed the encoding to Unicode.
>
> Bill
>
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From wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU  Sat May 17 00:03:11 2008
From: wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU (William J Poser)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 20:03:11 -0400
Subject: build a font for your endangered language...
In-Reply-To: <6d8c8c410805161630nd6cd266wfd9c81c2d418b67f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.16.MAY.2008.200311.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

To get a character added to Unicode  you need to submit a proposal
to the Unicode Consortium. Their web site is: http://www.unicode.org.
The crucial thing is that you must be able to show that the character
is or has been in actual use. If you are designing a new writing system
and are creating new characters, Unicode will not encode them right away.
You'll have to start using them first.

Now, this may seem like Catch-22: how can you use them before Unicode
encodes them? Are you forced to use a nasty idiosyncratic encoding?
Well, not exactly. Unicode includes several sets of codepoints called
"Private Use Area"s. These are guaranteed never to be used for official
Unicode purposes. Programs that process Unicode text can use them for
internal purposes, and you can use them for characters that have not yet
been officially encoded.

But, turning to your specific need, when you say you need <n> with a </>
over it, do you need a real slash or will an acute accent do? <n>
with acute accent is already available. It is U+0144 in lower case,
U+0143 in upper case. (U+XXXX is the notation used by the Unicode
consortium. XXXX is the codepoint in hexadecimal. So these are characters
344 and 343 in decimal.) Or when you say over do you mean not "above" but
"through", that is, "n with a slash through it"?

Bill
 


From lang.support at GMAIL.COM  Sat May 17 00:04:32 2008
From: lang.support at GMAIL.COM (Andrew Cunningham)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 10:04:32 +1000
Subject: build a font for your endangered language...
In-Reply-To: <20080516220413.CBAE6B245E@lorax.ldc.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <SAT.17.MAY.2008.100432.1000.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Custom encodings are one problem, and should be avoided.

But the reality is many languages aren't supported by core operating
system fonts, which introduced all sorts of difficulties when using
web services such as emails.

Custom unicode fonts have their uses, and many languages rely on them,
but only really work if people have downloaded them.

And you need a certain amount of IT knowledge to override the fonts
used by various web services by default.


Andrew

2008/5/17 William J Poser <wjposer at ldc.upenn.edu>:
> Keola Donaghy 'uk'uneisguz:
>
>>Aloha We created and used our custom fonts back in 1994 and are
>>still slowly trying to wean ourselves from them and switch
>>completely to Unicode.
>
> Actually, I think this confirms what I have been saying: using
> custom fonts is NOT a problem, except in cases like cell phones
> and work machines over which users have no control, where you
> can't install them.
>
> The problem is not custom fonts, it is custom ENCODINGS.
>
> Since I think some people may not be clear on the distinction,
> let me explain. Text in a computer really consists of a sequence
> of character codes, which are non-negative integers. The computer
> doesn't really store an "a" - it stores a number which by convention
> is associated with the character "a". Once upon a time, in the days
> of "dumb terminals" and fixed-encoding keyboards, this was all hard-wired.
> When you pressed the "a" key on your keyboard it sent a certain small
> integer to your computer, and when the computer sent that same small
> integer to the terminal, the terminal displayed the corresponding
> glyph. Nowadays it is possible to program what codes are generated by
> particular keyboard events and what glyphs are displayed, but
> the basic principle is the same: text consists of a sequence of
> numbers.
>
> What until recently was by far the most common encoding was ASCII,
> in which "a" has the character code 97. (Character codes are normally
> given in hexadecimal but I'll translate into decimal here.) "b" is
> 98, "c" is 99. "A" is 65, "B" is 66, "C" is 67, etc. So, if you
> have an ASCII-encoded font containing glyphs for the roman alphabet,
> sending the code 98 to the display will select the glyph for "b"
> and display it.
>
> For other languages there are other encodings. If, for example,
> you use the ARMSCII7 encoding (which you might have done if you
> were an Armenian), if you send the code 98 to the display instead
> of the letter "b" you would get the Armenian capital letter cha.
>
> Until recently, at best there was a single standard for each language
> and writing system, so that everybody would be on the same wavelength
> within that language and writing system. Fonts for Armenian or
> Russian or Hebrew or whatever would be encoded according to the
> standard for that language. Then things would be simple so long
> as you were using that language, but would get messy if, say,
> you need to use Armenian and English in the same document, or
> wanted to write in Russian on a machine set up for Hebrew.
> Furthermore, in many cases there were multiple encodings for the
> same writing system. Sometimes, every font had its own idiosyncratic
> encoding. (The champions seem to be the Ethiopians, who had over
> 40 known encodings for Amharic.)
>
> In this situation, where every font potentially uses its own
> encoding, for other people to use your font it isn't sufficient
> for them to install it - their software has to understand its
> encoding.
>
> With much current software, so long as your font uses a well-known
> encoding, the software can use it because it contains or knows how
> to look up information about the encoding. Your browser, for example,
> almost certainly (a) attempts to detect the encoding of the web page
> it displays and (b) allows you to tell it what encoding to use (in case
> it fails to guess correctly - this happens with some frequency, in part
> because many web pages lie about their encoding and the browser accepts
> the lie). But if you have a truly idiosyncratic encoding in your font,
> software may not know what to do with it.
>
> What Unicode does is unify all writing systems into a single encoding.
> In Unicode "b" and Armenian capital cha do not compete for the
> same codepoint. Instead, "b" is 98 as in ASCII and Armenian capital
> cha is 1353. With everything included in a single encoding, you can
> mix writing systems easiy within a single document and use one writing
> system on a system set up for another.
>
> So, if you create your own font but use Unicode as the encoding,
> so long as people are able to install your font they should have no
> problem using it. What you should not do is create fonts that use
> your own idiosyncratic encoding.
>
> One of the uses of FontForge is in fact reencoding an existing font.
> You can see an example of this at:
> http://billposer.org/Linguistics/Computation/Reencoding/HowTo.html
> The examples used in this tutorial are based on a real task.
> I wanted to be able to use Linear B and at the time could only
> find a font that used an idiosyncratic encoding. So I took that
> font and changed the encoding to Unicode.
>
> Bill
>



-- 
Andrew Cunningham
Vicnet Research and Development Coordinator
State Library of Victoria
Australia

andrewc at vicnet.net.au
lang.support at gmail.com


From lang.support at GMAIL.COM  Sat May 17 00:05:37 2008
From: lang.support at GMAIL.COM (Andrew Cunningham)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 10:05:37 +1000
Subject: build a font for your endangered language...
In-Reply-To: <6d8c8c410805161630nd6cd266wfd9c81c2d418b67f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SAT.17.MAY.2008.100537.1000.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

wouldn't this just be represented by "n" followed by "U+0301"? an "n"
and a combining acute?

Andrew

2008/5/17 Heather Souter <hsouter at gmail.com>:
> Taanshi,
>
> I am wondering how to go about creating a new character and how to go about
> getting a unicode codepoint for it.  What I have in mind is is an <n> with
> a</> over it....  Any advice or suggestions?
>
> Kihchi-maarsii!
>
> Eekoshi.
> Heather Souter
> Michif Language Activist and
> Community Linguist
>
> On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 5:04 PM, William J Poser <wjposer at ldc.upenn.edu>
> wrote:
>>
>> Keola Donaghy 'uk'uneisguz:
>>
>> >Aloha We created and used our custom fonts back in 1994 and are
>> >still slowly trying to wean ourselves from them and switch
>> >completely to Unicode.
>>
>> Actually, I think this confirms what I have been saying: using
>> custom fonts is NOT a problem, except in cases like cell phones
>> and work machines over which users have no control, where you
>> can't install them.
>>
>> The problem is not custom fonts, it is custom ENCODINGS.
>>
>> Since I think some people may not be clear on the distinction,
>> let me explain. Text in a computer really consists of a sequence
>> of character codes, which are non-negative integers. The computer
>> doesn't really store an "a" - it stores a number which by convention
>> is associated with the character "a". Once upon a time, in the days
>> of "dumb terminals" and fixed-encoding keyboards, this was all hard-wired.
>> When you pressed the "a" key on your keyboard it sent a certain small
>> integer to your computer, and when the computer sent that same small
>> integer to the terminal, the terminal displayed the corresponding
>> glyph. Nowadays it is possible to program what codes are generated by
>> particular keyboard events and what glyphs are displayed, but
>> the basic principle is the same: text consists of a sequence of
>> numbers.
>>
>> What until recently was by far the most common encoding was ASCII,
>> in which "a" has the character code 97. (Character codes are normally
>> given in hexadecimal but I'll translate into decimal here.) "b" is
>> 98, "c" is 99. "A" is 65, "B" is 66, "C" is 67, etc. So, if you
>> have an ASCII-encoded font containing glyphs for the roman alphabet,
>> sending the code 98 to the display will select the glyph for "b"
>> and display it.
>>
>> For other languages there are other encodings. If, for example,
>> you use the ARMSCII7 encoding (which you might have done if you
>> were an Armenian), if you send the code 98 to the display instead
>> of the letter "b" you would get the Armenian capital letter cha.
>>
>> Until recently, at best there was a single standard for each language
>> and writing system, so that everybody would be on the same wavelength
>> within that language and writing system. Fonts for Armenian or
>> Russian or Hebrew or whatever would be encoded according to the
>> standard for that language. Then things would be simple so long
>> as you were using that language, but would get messy if, say,
>> you need to use Armenian and English in the same document, or
>> wanted to write in Russian on a machine set up for Hebrew.
>> Furthermore, in many cases there were multiple encodings for the
>> same writing system. Sometimes, every font had its own idiosyncratic
>> encoding. (The champions seem to be the Ethiopians, who had over
>> 40 known encodings for Amharic.)
>>
>> In this situation, where every font potentially uses its own
>> encoding, for other people to use your font it isn't sufficient
>> for them to install it - their software has to understand its
>> encoding.
>>
>> With much current software, so long as your font uses a well-known
>> encoding, the software can use it because it contains or knows how
>> to look up information about the encoding. Your browser, for example,
>> almost certainly (a) attempts to detect the encoding of the web page
>> it displays and (b) allows you to tell it what encoding to use (in case
>> it fails to guess correctly - this happens with some frequency, in part
>> because many web pages lie about their encoding and the browser accepts
>> the lie). But if you have a truly idiosyncratic encoding in your font,
>> software may not know what to do with it.
>>
>> What Unicode does is unify all writing systems into a single encoding.
>> In Unicode "b" and Armenian capital cha do not compete for the
>> same codepoint. Instead, "b" is 98 as in ASCII and Armenian capital
>> cha is 1353. With everything included in a single encoding, you can
>> mix writing systems easiy within a single document and use one writing
>> system on a system set up for another.
>>
>> So, if you create your own font but use Unicode as the encoding,
>> so long as people are able to install your font they should have no
>> problem using it. What you should not do is create fonts that use
>> your own idiosyncratic encoding.
>>
>> One of the uses of FontForge is in fact reencoding an existing font.
>> You can see an example of this at:
>> http://billposer.org/Linguistics/Computation/Reencoding/HowTo.html
>> The examples used in this tutorial are based on a real task.
>> I wanted to be able to use Linear B and at the time could only
>> find a font that used an idiosyncratic encoding. So I took that
>> font and changed the encoding to Unicode.
>>
>> Bill
>
>



-- 
Andrew Cunningham
Vicnet Research and Development Coordinator
State Library of Victoria
Australia

andrewc at vicnet.net.au
lang.support at gmail.com


From rzs at WILDBLUE.NET  Sat May 17 02:11:19 2008
From: rzs at WILDBLUE.NET (Richard Smith)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 19:11:19 -0700
Subject: build a font for your endangered language...
In-Reply-To: <6d8c8c410805161630nd6cd266wfd9c81c2d418b67f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.16.MAY.2008.191119.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Heather,
are these the ones?

?  ?
(n with a rising pitch sign above)

i suppose your computer needs to have the right encoding
but i pulled these acute n's  off the Character Palette
on my  iMac10...and dropped them on this email (did they scramble?)
they are ready-mades ,ready to go

Character Palette
under European Scripts
under Latin:
"Latin small letter n with acute"
"Latin capital letter n with acute"


-Richard




On 5/16/08 4:30 PM, "Heather Souter" <hsouter at GMAIL.COM> wrote:

> Taanshi, 
> 
> I am wondering how to go about creating a new character and how to go about
> getting a unicode codepoint for it.  What I have in mind is is an <n> with
> a</> over it....  Any advice or suggestions?
> 
> Kihchi-maarsii!
> 
> Eekoshi.
> Heather Souter
> Michif Language Activist and
> Community Linguist

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From lang.support at GMAIL.COM  Sat May 17 00:35:46 2008
From: lang.support at GMAIL.COM (Andrew Cunningham)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 10:35:46 +1000
Subject: build a font for your endangered language...
In-Reply-To: <C4538CD7.4831%rzs@wildblue.net>
Message-ID: <SAT.17.MAY.2008.103546.1000.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

And on windows are available in core fonts.

2008/5/17 Richard Smith <rzs at wildblue.net>:
> Heather,
> are these the ones?
>
> ?  ?
> (n with a rising pitch sign above)
>
> i suppose your computer needs to have the right encoding
> but i pulled these acute n's  off the Character Palette
> on my  iMac10...and dropped them on this email (did they scramble?)
> they are ready-mades ,ready to go
>
> Character Palette
> under European Scripts
> under Latin:
> "Latin small letter n with acute"
> "Latin capital letter n with acute"
>
>
> -Richard
>
>
>
>
> On 5/16/08 4:30 PM, "Heather Souter" <hsouter at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>
> Taanshi,
>
> I am wondering how to go about creating a new character and how to go about
> getting a unicode codepoint for it.  What I have in mind is is an <n> with
> a</> over it....  Any advice or suggestions?
>
> Kihchi-maarsii!
>
> Eekoshi.
> Heather Souter
> Michif Language Activist and
> Community Linguist
>



-- 
Andrew Cunningham
Vicnet Research and Development Coordinator
State Library of Victoria
Australia

andrewc at vicnet.net.au
lang.support at gmail.com


From hsouter at GMAIL.COM  Sat May 17 02:29:57 2008
From: hsouter at GMAIL.COM (Heather Souter)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 21:29:57 -0500
Subject: build a font for your endangered language...
In-Reply-To: <9d70cb000805161735h186ea9egb31a8e91535054c1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.16.MAY.2008.212957.0500.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Taanshi all,

Actually, what I was hoping for was an <n> with a </> right through it.

Over twenty years ago (to be sure), an Elder from the Turtle Mountain
Reservation in North Dakota published a few resources using a character like
this.  From what I can tell, the backslash was added after the fact.  The
special 'n' was used as a character to mark nasalization of the vowel(s
immediately  before it.

Now, I realize that a tilde over a vowel is what is normally used.  However,
since Michif has quite a few French-origin elements (+/-50%?), many of our
Elders were (still are?) multilingual and familiar with French-spellings,
and many learners in Canada (at least) rely on French dictionaries to guess
at the meaning of some French-origin words,  a character like this could
help quite a few people recognize Michif cognates of French words.

One orthography we are presently using a modified  double-vowel system which
includes an n with a tilde over it to mark nasalization.  It  works quite
well but we had really wanted an <n> with a </> through it to mark the nasal
vowels in both French-origin and Cree-origin elements.  (Yes, we have nasal
vowels in Cree-origin elements of (almost ?)all  dialects of Michif!  Our
language is, in so many ways,  blend doing things that are not normally done
in its languages of origin!)

Anyhow, that is the story behind my desire to have this new character....

Kihchi-maarsii pur kakiyaw tii ziidii!

Eekoshi pitamaa.

Heather

PS: How do I get a tilde over an <n> when writing emails using a PC.  I can
do this on my MAC but haven't figured out how to do this on a PC....

On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 7:35 PM, Andrew Cunningham <lang.support at gmail.com>
wrote:

> And on windows are available in core fonts.
>
> 2008/5/17 Richard Smith <rzs at wildblue.net>:
> > Heather,
> > are these the ones?
> >
> > ?  ?
> > (n with a rising pitch sign above)
> >
> > i suppose your computer needs to have the right encoding
> > but i pulled these acute n's  off the Character Palette
> > on my  iMac10...and dropped them on this email (did they scramble?)
> > they are ready-mades ,ready to go
> >
> > Character Palette
> > under European Scripts
> > under Latin:
> > "Latin small letter n with acute"
> > "Latin capital letter n with acute"
> >
> >
> > -Richard
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 5/16/08 4:30 PM, "Heather Souter" <hsouter at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
> >
> > Taanshi,
> >
> > I am wondering how to go about creating a new character and how to go
> about
> > getting a unicode codepoint for it.  What I have in mind is is an <n>
> with
> > a</> over it....  Any advice or suggestions?
> >
> > Kihchi-maarsii!
> >
> > Eekoshi.
> > Heather Souter
> > Michif Language Activist and
> > Community Linguist
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Andrew Cunningham
> Vicnet Research and Development Coordinator
> State Library of Victoria
> Australia
>
> andrewc at vicnet.net.au
> lang.support at gmail.com
>
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From wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU  Sat May 17 02:48:15 2008
From: wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU (William J Poser)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 22:48:15 -0400
Subject: build a font for your endangered language...
In-Reply-To: <6d8c8c410805161929g47b980d2r4e37ceafa2a9ed1b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.16.MAY.2008.224815.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Heather,

Unicode does not encode n with a slash through it as a single codepoint,
but it does have slash as a combining character. In fact, it has two:
U+0337 COMBINING SHORT SOLIDUS OVERLAY
U+0338 COMBINING LONG SOLIDUS OVERLAY
(The forward slash is called "solidus" in Unicode-speak.)

So, you can get a lower-case n overlaid by a long slash by entering
first the n and then U+0338. They are two separate codepoints but will
be rendered by Unicode-aware software as the single character you want.

Because this is treated as a sequence of two "characters" in Unicode,
you may have to do something special to get your sort order the
way you want it. Such things are a little easier if you can get what you
want as a single codepoint, but the Unicode Consortium is reluctant
to add single codepoints for things that can be composed from existing
combining characters.

Bill


From hsouter at GMAIL.COM  Sat May 17 03:00:41 2008
From: hsouter at GMAIL.COM (Heather Souter)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 22:00:41 -0500
Subject: build a font for your endangered language...
In-Reply-To: <20080517024815.45BA7B242D@lorax.ldc.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <FRI.16.MAY.2008.220041.0500.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Kihchi-maarsii pur to? repo?s, Bill!  Thanks for your response, Bill!

So, I guess that our present way of using <?> really is still perhaps the
best (read easiest) compromise for our orthographic purposes?  Or, is it
simply a matter of educating myself (and other potential users of the
orthography) on the process (key strokes necessary) to produce the character
when writing?  Is there a simple way to program a key to produce the
character when hit once (using shift or control or whatever)?  Or, will it
always take a couple of key strokes?

Eekoshi kihtwaam.
Heather

On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 9:48 PM, William J Poser <wjposer at ldc.upenn.edu>
wrote:

> Heather,
>
> Unicode does not encode n with a slash through it as a single codepoint,
> but it does have slash as a combining character. In fact, it has two:
> U+0337 COMBINING SHORT SOLIDUS OVERLAY
> U+0338 COMBINING LONG SOLIDUS OVERLAY
> (The forward slash is called "solidus" in Unicode-speak.)
>
> So, you can get a lower-case n overlaid by a long slash by entering
> first the n and then U+0338. They are two separate codepoints but will
> be rendered by Unicode-aware software as the single character you want.
>
> Because this is treated as a sequence of two "characters" in Unicode,
> you may have to do something special to get your sort order the
> way you want it. Such things are a little easier if you can get what you
> want as a single codepoint, but the Unicode Consortium is reluctant
> to add single codepoints for things that can be composed from existing
> combining characters.
>
> Bill
>
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From wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU  Sat May 17 03:42:09 2008
From: wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU (William J Poser)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 23:42:09 -0400
Subject: build a font for your endangered language...
In-Reply-To: <6d8c8c410805162000j3d901805qb07b76c757d9d7c5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.16.MAY.2008.234209.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Heather,

Am I correct in assuming you're using Microsoft Windows?
If so, I'm afraid that my knowledge of MS Windows is limited.
I understand that you can create new keyboard layouts or edit
an existing one (probably what you want to do) using the
Keyboard Layout Creator, which is available from Microsoft:
http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/tools/msklc.mspx
I haven't used it so I'm afraid I can't tell  you more.
But I wouldn't be surprised if someone else on this list knows
how.

Bill


From hsouter at GMAIL.COM  Sat May 17 04:22:58 2008
From: hsouter at GMAIL.COM (Heather Souter)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 23:22:58 -0500
Subject: build a font for your endangered language...
In-Reply-To: <20080517034209.0E5E2B245E@lorax.ldc.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <FRI.16.MAY.2008.232258.0500.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Taanshi kihtwaam,

Yes, I am using Microsoft Vista Home Premium on our new laptop.  I am a Mac
user and am only learning the MS Windows environment.... (I am not much of a
computer whiz at all, however!)

I also would like to know how to do the same thing on my Mac.  If you or
anyone has pointers on how to do it on a Mac, I would really appreciate it!

Eekoshi kihtwaam.
Heather

On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 10:42 PM, William J Poser <wjposer at ldc.upenn.edu>
wrote:

> Heather,
>
> Am I correct in assuming you're using Microsoft Windows?
> If so, I'm afraid that my knowledge of MS Windows is limited.
> I understand that you can create new keyboard layouts or edit
> an existing one (probably what you want to do) using the
> Keyboard Layout Creator, which is available from Microsoft:
> http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/tools/msklc.mspx
> I haven't used it so I'm afraid I can't tell  you more.
> But I wouldn't be surprised if someone else on this list knows
> how.
>
> Bill
>
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From donaghy at HAWAII.EDU  Sat May 17 04:27:52 2008
From: donaghy at HAWAII.EDU (Keola Donaghy)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 16:27:52 +1200
Subject: Steve Cisler Passes
Message-ID: <SAT.17.MAY.2008.162752.1200.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

I was deeply saddened to learn of the passing of Steve Cisler today.  
Steve was a champion of community networking for many years and helped  
countless individuals and communities, including our Hawaiian language  
community. He also assisted other Native American groups with the use  
of technology to strengthen their communities.

The director of our Hawaiian Language Center and I met Steve at a  
community networking conference in Honolulu in 1993, when we were  
looking to start a Hawaiian language bulletin-board service for the  
immersion schools. He showed us FirstClass, the software we used to  
create Leoki, and continue to use to this day. He lent us (in his  
capacity with the Apple Library of Tomorrow program) the computer that  
we used to establish Leoki, and when we provide we could accomplish  
what we wanted, he gave us the computer as well as another which  
became our first web server in 1995. While obviously on a different  
server now, this was the first generation of Kualono. While other,  
bigger name people of that era made big promises which never  
materialized, Steve worked quietly and with little fanfare to help us.  
I always have referred to him as Leoki's "Godfather".

Steve and I stayed in touch after he left Apple, but hadn?t  
communicated for about two years. He will be deeply missed. Some of  
the many people who knew Steve and benefited from him kindness and  
dedication have left comments here:

http://communitynetworking2008.blogspot.com/2008/05/community-networking-champion-steve.html

Keola

========================================================================
Keola Donaghy
Assistant Professor of Hawaiian Studies
Ka Haka 'Ula O Ke'elikolani             keola at leoki.uhh.hawaii.edu
University of Hawai'i at Hilo           http://www2.hawaii.edu/~donaghy/

"T?r gan teanga, t?r gan anam."  (Irish Gaelic saying)
A country without its language is a country without its soul.
========================================================================



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From wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU  Sat May 17 04:58:20 2008
From: wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU (William J Poser)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 00:58:20 -0400
Subject: Build a font...
Message-ID: <SAT.17.MAY.2008.005820.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Heather,

I'm not a Mac user either, but there is a free tool called Ukelele
for editing Mac keyboards available from SIL: http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&id=ukelele

Bill


From bischoff.st at GMAIL.COM  Sat May 17 12:03:47 2008
From: bischoff.st at GMAIL.COM (s.t. bischoff)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 08:03:47 -0400
Subject: Build a font...
In-Reply-To: <20080517045820.212B9B2448@lorax.ldc.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <SAT.17.MAY.2008.080347.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Bill,

do you know of a tutorial for creating keyboards with ubuntu?

thanks,
shannon

On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 12:58 AM, William J Poser <wjposer at ldc.upenn.edu>
wrote:

> Heather,
>
> I'm not a Mac user either, but there is a free tool called Ukelele
> for editing Mac keyboards available from SIL:
> http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&id=ukelele
>
> Bill
>
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From dzo at BISHARAT.NET  Sat May 17 13:33:20 2008
From: dzo at BISHARAT.NET (Don Osborn)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 09:33:20 -0400
Subject: build a font for your endangered language...
In-Reply-To: <20080516220413.CBAE6B245E@lorax.ldc.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <SAT.17.MAY.2008.093320.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Just catching up with this thread. As Bill pointed out, it is custom
encoding (not fonts) that is the problem.

The way I explain it to people, there are two issues with extended Latin
characters:
1) are the ones you need encoded in Unicode?
2) are they included in any existing (Unicode) fonts?

The answer to #1 might need a little research in the Unicode tables, and in
the case of less-common character+diacritic combinations, one should look at
whether a combining diacritic combination will resolve the issue (note
Andrew's response). See http://www.unicode.org/charts/ (and check also the
IPA extensions which are rather unhelpfully not also listed on that page -
see http://www.unicode.org/charts/symbols.html#PhoneticSymbols ).

Usually the problem is #2 - the lack of representation of less commonly used
characters in available fonts. 

Also, many less-commonly used characters are not totally unrepresented in
fonts, so on many computers, text made in a custom Unicode font for a
particular orthography might pick up the appropriate characters from other
fonts. Basically the realm of extended characters is not the wilderness it
once was, though there is still work to do.

FYI, the new PanAfrican Localisation Network project (which succeeds the
PanAfrican Localisation project) has a sub-project on open-source extended
Latin fonts - extending existing fonts mainly - for African orthographies. 

On re-encoding, this has been an issue in some countries in Africa too. I
may have mentioned on this list an old French funded project run by RIFAL to
convert text in legacy fonts into Unicode -
http://www.panafril10n.org/PanAfrLoc/RIFAL

Don


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Indigenous Languages and Technology
> [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of William J Poser
> Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 6:04 PM
> To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [ILAT] build a font for your endangered language...
> 
> Keola Donaghy 'uk'uneisguz:
> 
> >Aloha We created and used our custom fonts back in 1994 and are
> >still slowly trying to wean ourselves from them and switch
> >completely to Unicode.
> 
> Actually, I think this confirms what I have been saying: using
> custom fonts is NOT a problem, except in cases like cell phones
> and work machines over which users have no control, where you
> can't install them.
> 
> The problem is not custom fonts, it is custom ENCODINGS.
> 
> Since I think some people may not be clear on the distinction,
> let me explain. Text in a computer really consists of a sequence
> of character codes, which are non-negative integers. The computer
> doesn't really store an "a" - it stores a number which by convention
> is associated with the character "a". Once upon a time, in the days
> of "dumb terminals" and fixed-encoding keyboards, this was all hard-
> wired.
> When you pressed the "a" key on your keyboard it sent a certain small
> integer to your computer, and when the computer sent that same small
> integer to the terminal, the terminal displayed the corresponding
> glyph. Nowadays it is possible to program what codes are generated by
> particular keyboard events and what glyphs are displayed, but
> the basic principle is the same: text consists of a sequence of
> numbers.
> 
> What until recently was by far the most common encoding was ASCII,
> in which "a" has the character code 97. (Character codes are normally
> given in hexadecimal but I'll translate into decimal here.) "b" is
> 98, "c" is 99. "A" is 65, "B" is 66, "C" is 67, etc. So, if you
> have an ASCII-encoded font containing glyphs for the roman alphabet,
> sending the code 98 to the display will select the glyph for "b"
> and display it.
> 
> For other languages there are other encodings. If, for example,
> you use the ARMSCII7 encoding (which you might have done if you
> were an Armenian), if you send the code 98 to the display instead
> of the letter "b" you would get the Armenian capital letter cha.
> 
> Until recently, at best there was a single standard for each language
> and writing system, so that everybody would be on the same wavelength
> within that language and writing system. Fonts for Armenian or
> Russian or Hebrew or whatever would be encoded according to the
> standard for that language. Then things would be simple so long
> as you were using that language, but would get messy if, say,
> you need to use Armenian and English in the same document, or
> wanted to write in Russian on a machine set up for Hebrew.
> Furthermore, in many cases there were multiple encodings for the
> same writing system. Sometimes, every font had its own idiosyncratic
> encoding. (The champions seem to be the Ethiopians, who had over
> 40 known encodings for Amharic.)
> 
> In this situation, where every font potentially uses its own
> encoding, for other people to use your font it isn't sufficient
> for them to install it - their software has to understand its
> encoding.
> 
> With much current software, so long as your font uses a well-known
> encoding, the software can use it because it contains or knows how
> to look up information about the encoding. Your browser, for example,
> almost certainly (a) attempts to detect the encoding of the web page
> it displays and (b) allows you to tell it what encoding to use (in case
> it fails to guess correctly - this happens with some frequency, in part
> because many web pages lie about their encoding and the browser accepts
> the lie). But if you have a truly idiosyncratic encoding in your font,
> software may not know what to do with it.
> 
> What Unicode does is unify all writing systems into a single encoding.
> In Unicode "b" and Armenian capital cha do not compete for the
> same codepoint. Instead, "b" is 98 as in ASCII and Armenian capital
> cha is 1353. With everything included in a single encoding, you can
> mix writing systems easiy within a single document and use one writing
> system on a system set up for another.
> 
> So, if you create your own font but use Unicode as the encoding,
> so long as people are able to install your font they should have no
> problem using it. What you should not do is create fonts that use
> your own idiosyncratic encoding.
> 
> One of the uses of FontForge is in fact reencoding an existing font.
> You can see an example of this at:
> http://billposer.org/Linguistics/Computation/Reencoding/HowTo.html
> The examples used in this tutorial are based on a real task.
> I wanted to be able to use Linear B and at the time could only
> find a font that used an idiosyncratic encoding. So I took that
> font and changed the encoding to Unicode.
> 
> Bill


From rzs at WILDBLUE.NET  Sat May 17 16:07:04 2008
From: rzs at WILDBLUE.NET (Richard Smith)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 09:07:04 -0700
Subject: Build a font...
In-Reply-To: <20080517045820.212B9B2448@lorax.ldc.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <SAT.17.MAY.2008.090704.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Heather ,

I'm no computer whiz either...
I use Ukelele and find it fairly straight forward
you might install it and play around with it.
With it you can actually create endless keyboard layouts
(for typing varied spellings of your language)

With Ukelele i can drag  a symbol from the "character palette"  and drop
them onto a key on the nice big picture of  a "keyboard"

Sometimes i forget which key i dropped a certain symbol on...
"dang it ,where did i put that nasalized o?"
Ukelele can open a miniaturized keyboard picture on the desktop that
lights up every key punched and shows me where that illusive symbol is
hiding.  "duuhh...oh yeah its over the capitol O key..."

Twice i created keyboards where i forgot to install some obscure symbol.
"dang it ,I forgot to install a lower case u !"
Ok i admit one frustration with this program
With Ukelele I find it difficult to ADD a symbol i forgot...somehow.

I usually end up creating a whole new keyboard
but oh well,  it is simple enough to do.

-Richard




On 5/16/08 9:58 PM, "William J Poser" <wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU> wrote:

> Heather,
> 
> I'm not a Mac user either, but there is a free tool called Ukelele
> for editing Mac keyboards available from SIL:
> http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&id=ukelele
> 
> Bill


From hsouter at GMAIL.COM  Sat May 17 15:01:00 2008
From: hsouter at GMAIL.COM (Heather Souter)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 10:01:00 -0500
Subject: Build a font...
In-Reply-To: <C45450B8.4847%rzs@wildblue.net>
Message-ID: <SAT.17.MAY.2008.100100.0500.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Taanshi, Richard,

Kihchi-maarsii pur tii parol!  Thanks for your words (advice)!

I will give it a try and tell you how I made out....

Eekoshi pitamaa.
Heather


> ou might install it and play around with it.
> With it you can actually create endless keyboard layouts
> (for typing varied spellings of your language)
>
> With Ukelele i can drag  a symbol from the "character palette"  and drop
> them onto a key on the nice big picture of  a "keyboard"
>
> Sometimes i forget which key i dropped a certain symbol on...
> "dang it ,where did i put that nasalized o?"
> Ukelele can open a miniaturized keyboard picture on the desktop that
> lights up every key punched and shows me where that illusive symbol is
> hiding.  "duuhh...oh yeah its over the capitol O key..."
>
> Twice i created keyboards where i forgot to install some obscure symbol.
> "dang it ,I forgot to install a lower case u !"
> Ok i admit one frustration with this program
> With Ukelele I find it difficult to ADD a symbol i forgot...somehow.
>
> I usually end up creating a whole new keyboard
> but oh well,  it is simple enough to do.
>
> -Richard
>
>
>
>
> On 5/16/08 9:58 PM, "William J Poser" <wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU> wrote:
>
> > Heather,
> >
> > I'm not a Mac user either, but there is a free tool called Ukelele
> > for editing Mac keyboards available from SIL:
> > http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&id=ukelele
> >
> > Bill
>
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From wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU  Sat May 17 17:50:24 2008
From: wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU (William J Poser)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 13:50:24 -0400
Subject: Build a font...
In-Reply-To: <1c1f75a20805170503r6327b813wc2dd1f6b62c41297@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SAT.17.MAY.2008.135024.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Shannon,

Yes, here's a tutorial on changing keyboard layouts in Ubuntu:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=188761&highlight=layout
Although on an Ubuntu forum, this really deals with changing
X11 keyboard layouts, so it should be applicable to most *nix
systems.

Bill


From rtroike at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Sat May 17 22:14:04 2008
From: rtroike at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (Rudy Troike)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 15:14:04 -0700
Subject: build a font for your endangered language...
Message-ID: <SAT.17.MAY.2008.151404.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Bill,

   Just as an observation, a lot of people paste Word documents (memos,
announcements, etc.) into our university Webmail (which I'm using now), and
even something as simple as double quotes (") show up on the screen as
question marks (?). (I always preferred WordPerfect 5.1, but gave it up for
WP 11, and even had to abandon that because people couldn't read my
attachments, as they wouldn't convert to Word for some reason). So I am
wondering how well special characters, even ones chosen from the Word
character options, would transmit on an institutional Webmail application
(I haven't tried this, and should, just to find out).

   [As a different matter, our Webmail allows for different languages, but
for English uses Charset Western ISO-8859-1, with -15 as an option, but I
don't know whether different character sets can be mixed in the same
document such as the one I'm composing now. I've tried, and haven't been
able to figure out how to put accents on vowels, though I've seen them come
through in Linguist List annoucements. Maybe Phil Cash Cash has the answer
to this, since he is using the same Webmail.]

   A second problem comes in printing. I can compose a document, such as
a class handout, using the special Word characters, but my fairly up to date
HP LaserJet 4050 leaves blanks (or less often prints other characters) where
the desired character appears fine onscreen. So I have to wind up going back
and writing these in by hand. It's messy and maddening. I can send the Word
documents to others as attachments, but I would guess that many of them
would have the same problem with not seeing the characters printed out, so
they wouldn't be able to understand what I was writing about.

   I did once try downloading some of the SIL fonts in order to be able to
use phonetic symbols, but I could never get them to show up onscreen within
a Word document, or if I did (it's been several years now), they would not
print on my old HP printer (using Windows 98).

   Any suggestions on these problems would be appreciated.

   Rudy


From wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU  Sat May 17 23:07:34 2008
From: wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU (William J Poser)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 19:07:34 -0400
Subject: build a font for your endangered language...
In-Reply-To: <20080517151404.a48gzyo848okg080@www.email.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <SAT.17.MAY.2008.190734.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Rudy,

I'm not sufficiently familiar with the specific applications you
use to be able to give detailed advice. I'm a Unix person and don't
know MS Windows very well (except for the xerox finite state transducer
tools, I have had no unfree software on my machines in nearly four years).
However, with regard to email, the problem may have to do with the nature
of the email system itself.

The email system, that is, the system by which machines move mail
around, predates the web, fancy wordprocessors, and so on. It goes
WAY back, and so at its core supports only 7-bit ASCII. To this day,
if you put anything in which the high bit of a byte might be set
into an email message, it may not make it to its destination.

The way around this is to re-encode the text using only safe
characters and decode it back to its real encoding at the other end.
The most common method for doing this nowadays is to use base64
encoding. In this method, each group of three bytes is treated as
a 24-bit string and divided up into four 6-bit chunks. Each of these
chunks is used as an index into the 64-character string:

ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz0123456789+/

Since 2^6 = 64, each 6-bit chunk corresponds uniquely to a 
character.

So, three bytes that may take on any value are transformed into
four nice safe ASCII characters. 

When you send an image or audio file or video or MS word document
as an attachment, it is base64-encoded. If you use an email
interface that knows to do so, if you enter non-ASCII text, it will
notice it and base64 encode it.

So, one class of problems arises when people get non-ASCII text
into an email message. It may be garbled in passing through the
mail system, or it may not be handled correctly by your email
reader, which may assume that it is getting plain ASCII unless
it is notified that it is getting base64 encoded text.

Like any piece of text, email may be in a variety of encodings.
For everything to work properly, the encoding should be specified
in the mail header. That way, at the other end, the reader's mail
reading software can display it or convert to something it knows
how to display, or failing that, a human being can convert it
manually. Note that encoding in this sense is distinct from encodings
like base64 that are used to get everything into ascii. If, for
example, your original text is in, say, tis620, the Thai national
standard, it isn't safe to send it as is since this encoding
uses all eight bits. So your Thai text will have to be base64-encoded.
The base64-encoded text is then decoded back to tis620 at the other end.

So, another type of problem arises if your email system doesn't
correctly identify the character encoding in the header. (This
also happens with web pages. There is an HTML attribute that
identifies the encoding, but it is often missing or incorrect.)

Mixing encodings is another way to create problems. When you
insert text into a buffer, you are just inserting some bytes.
How they will be interpreted down the line depends on the encoding
that the downstream software thinks the text is in, and only one
encoding is associated with a piece of plain text. If you have
bits of text in different encodings and want to combine them into
a single piece of text, you need to convert them all to a single
encoding before combining them. In general the only way to do
that will be to convert to Unicode. (If you use the import text
function in a wordprocessor, the way it imports text in various
encodings is that it converts it in passing from whatever encoding
it is in to the word processor's internal encoding, which is
usually Unicode these days.)

If your printer does not display some characters that is probably
because it doesn't have the right fonts. If you can see them in MS
Word, you must have the right fonts on your system, but for some
reason the printer doesn't know about them. You need to consult
an MS Windows expert to find out what to do about this. With
regard to sending MS Word files to others, my understanding isthat
MS Word does not by default include the necessary fonts when it
saves a file, so if you are using anything non-standard, the
recipient may see gaps in place of the "exotic" characters. If
the recipient only needs to read the document, not to edit it,
exporting as PDF will generally solve this problem. I think that
I've heard that there is a way to force MS Word to include the
fonts in the document but I don't know  how.

The SIL fonts work just fine for me on my GNU/Linux systems, and
I hear that they work fine on MS Windows (which is, after all,
SIL's main target), so I don't know why they don't work for you.

Bill


From lang.support at GMAIL.COM  Sat May 17 23:22:18 2008
From: lang.support at GMAIL.COM (Andrew Cunningham)
Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 09:22:18 +1000
Subject: build a font for your endangered language...
In-Reply-To: <20080517151404.a48gzyo848okg080@www.email.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <SUN.18.MAY.2008.092218.1000.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

The issue with printing may be related to the fact that some printers
used soft-fonts installed on the printer, if you look at the printer
settings in control panel, there may be options to specify if the
fonts is sent to the printer or the printer uses its own internal
fonts in memory.

For web mail, it is not advisable to ever mix encodings. If the
diacritics exist in iso-8859-1 or iso-8859-15, then easiest way is to
type them directly form the keyboard.

Windows98 is severely unicode challenged. But you can work with
Unicode and the SIL fonts just as long as you don't need complex
script behaviour, i.e. combining diacritics, glyph substitution, etc.


Andrew

2008/5/18 Rudy Troike <rtroike at email.arizona.edu>:
> Bill,
>
>   Just as an observation, a lot of people paste Word documents (memos,
> announcements, etc.) into our university Webmail (which I'm using now), and
> even something as simple as double quotes (") show up on the screen as
> question marks (?). (I always preferred WordPerfect 5.1, but gave it up for
> WP 11, and even had to abandon that because people couldn't read my
> attachments, as they wouldn't convert to Word for some reason). So I am
> wondering how well special characters, even ones chosen from the Word
> character options, would transmit on an institutional Webmail application
> (I haven't tried this, and should, just to find out).
>
>   [As a different matter, our Webmail allows for different languages, but
> for English uses Charset Western ISO-8859-1, with -15 as an option, but I
> don't know whether different character sets can be mixed in the same
> document such as the one I'm composing now. I've tried, and haven't been
> able to figure out how to put accents on vowels, though I've seen them come
> through in Linguist List annoucements. Maybe Phil Cash Cash has the answer
> to this, since he is using the same Webmail.]
>
>   A second problem comes in printing. I can compose a document, such as
> a class handout, using the special Word characters, but my fairly up to date
> HP LaserJet 4050 leaves blanks (or less often prints other characters) where
> the desired character appears fine onscreen. So I have to wind up going back
> and writing these in by hand. It's messy and maddening. I can send the Word
> documents to others as attachments, but I would guess that many of them
> would have the same problem with not seeing the characters printed out, so
> they wouldn't be able to understand what I was writing about.
>
>   I did once try downloading some of the SIL fonts in order to be able to
> use phonetic symbols, but I could never get them to show up onscreen within
> a Word document, or if I did (it's been several years now), they would not
> print on my old HP printer (using Windows 98).
>
>   Any suggestions on these problems would be appreciated.
>
>   Rudy
>



-- 
Andrew Cunningham
Vicnet Research and Development Coordinator
State Library of Victoria
Australia

andrewc at vicnet.net.au
lang.support at gmail.com


From lang.support at GMAIL.COM  Sat May 17 23:27:20 2008
From: lang.support at GMAIL.COM (Andrew Cunningham)
Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 09:27:20 +1000
Subject: build a font for your endangered language...
In-Reply-To: <000001c8b822$92fc5b70$b8f51250$@net>
Message-ID: <SUN.18.MAY.2008.092720.1000.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Hi Don

I'd add a third point to your list below:

3) do you use a glyph variation for an existing Unicode character.

I remember at least one case where we had to modify a font so that for
one character, an alternative glyph for the character became the
default glyph for the character, and the glyphs
for two other characters were modified to provide culturally
acceptable glyphs for the font.

Andrew

2008/5/17 Don Osborn <dzo at bisharat.net>:
> Just catching up with this thread. As Bill pointed out, it is custom
> encoding (not fonts) that is the problem.
>
> The way I explain it to people, there are two issues with extended Latin
> characters:
> 1) are the ones you need encoded in Unicode?
> 2) are they included in any existing (Unicode) fonts?
>



-- 
Andrew Cunningham
Vicnet Research and Development Coordinator
State Library of Victoria
Australia

andrewc at vicnet.net.au
lang.support at gmail.com


From lang.support at GMAIL.COM  Sat May 17 23:35:02 2008
From: lang.support at GMAIL.COM (Andrew Cunningham)
Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 09:35:02 +1000
Subject: build a font for your endangered language...
In-Reply-To: <6d8c8c410805162000j3d901805qb07b76c757d9d7c5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SUN.18.MAY.2008.093502.1000.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

You can use either Microsoft Keyboard Layout Creator (MSKLC) or
Tavultesoft Keyman Developer to create an appropriate keyboard layout.
Depending on how you design a keyboard, you can create a single key to
output one or more Unicode characters.

Which tool you choose will depend on your budget and on the complexity
of the keyboard,
and your budget.
Heather,

Sounds like you just need something fairly simple and implemented on a
small scale, so the free MSKLC should be sufficient. Only limitation
is you have to tie the new keyboard to an existing windows input
locale. Ok on your own computers, but a practice i avoid like the
plague in the public settings we support.

Andrew

2008/5/17 Heather Souter <hsouter at gmail.com>:
> Kihchi-maarsii pur to? repo?s, Bill!  Thanks for your response, Bill!
>
> So, I guess that our present way of using <?> really is still perhaps the
> best (read easiest) compromise for our orthographic purposes?  Or, is it
> simply a matter of educating myself (and other potential users of the
> orthography) on the process (key strokes necessary) to produce the character
> when writing?  Is there a simple way to program a key to produce the
> character when hit once (using shift or control or whatever)?  Or, will it
> always take a couple of key strokes?
>
> Eekoshi kihtwaam.
> Heather
>
> On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 9:48 PM, William J Poser <wjposer at ldc.upenn.edu>
> wrote:
>>
>> Heather,
>>
>> Unicode does not encode n with a slash through it as a single codepoint,
>> but it does have slash as a combining character. In fact, it has two:
>> U+0337 COMBINING SHORT SOLIDUS OVERLAY
>> U+0338 COMBINING LONG SOLIDUS OVERLAY
>> (The forward slash is called "solidus" in Unicode-speak.)
>>
>> So, you can get a lower-case n overlaid by a long slash by entering
>> first the n and then U+0338. They are two separate codepoints but will
>> be rendered by Unicode-aware software as the single character you want.
>>
>> Because this is treated as a sequence of two "characters" in Unicode,
>> you may have to do something special to get your sort order the
>> way you want it. Such things are a little easier if you can get what you
>> want as a single codepoint, but the Unicode Consortium is reluctant
>> to add single codepoints for things that can be composed from existing
>> combining characters.
>>
>> Bill
>
>



-- 
Andrew Cunningham
Vicnet Research and Development Coordinator
State Library of Victoria
Australia

andrewc at vicnet.net.au
lang.support at gmail.com


From lang.support at GMAIL.COM  Sat May 17 23:45:40 2008
From: lang.support at GMAIL.COM (Andrew Cunningham)
Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 09:45:40 +1000
Subject: Build a font...
In-Reply-To: <1c1f75a20805170503r6327b813wc2dd1f6b62c41297@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SUN.18.MAY.2008.094540.1000.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Hi Shannon,

It depends on what input system you are using, its possible to create
a simplistic xkb keyboard layout.

>From memory Ubuntu has SCIM enabled by default, so documentation on
creating a keyboard layout using SCIM tables should be available on
the SCIM website.

Alternatively, its possible to install the KMFL module for SCIM, which
would allow you to use the source files for Tavultesoft Keyman on
Linux.

There are other input systems as well, but SCIM and xkb seem to be the
most common on Ubuntu

I've never tried IIIMF on Ubuntu, so couldn't really comment on it.

Andrew

2008/5/17 s.t. bischoff <bischoff.st at gmail.com>:
> Bill,
>
> do you know of a tutorial for creating keyboards with ubuntu?
>
> thanks,
> shannon
>
> On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 12:58 AM, William J Poser <wjposer at ldc.upenn.edu>
> wrote:
>>
>> Heather,
>>
>> I'm not a Mac user either, but there is a free tool called Ukelele
>> for editing Mac keyboards available from SIL:
>> http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&id=ukelele
>>
>> Bill
>
>



-- 
Andrew Cunningham
Vicnet Research and Development Coordinator
State Library of Victoria
Australia

andrewc at vicnet.net.au
lang.support at gmail.com


From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Mon May 19 17:05:58 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 10:05:58 -0700
Subject: Tulalip ancestors' language alive in spirit (fwd link)
Message-ID: <MON.19.MAY.2008.100558.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

HearladNet - Everett WA
Published: Saturday, May 17, 2008

Tulalip ancestors' language alive in spirit

A Mass in the Tulalip Tribes' ancient language is meant to celebrate the
blending of culture and faith.

By Krista J. Kapralos, Herald Writer

TULALIP -- The whoosh sound of Lushootseed filled the sanctuary at St. Anne's
Mission on the Tulalip Indian Reservation as Mass was celebrated Sunday, in
part, in the ancient language of Coast Salish American Indian tribes.

Access full article below:
http://heraldnet.com/article/20080517/NEWS01/643248491


From neskiem at GMAIL.COM  Mon May 19 17:45:10 2008
From: neskiem at GMAIL.COM (Neskie Manuel)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 14:45:10 -0300
Subject: Build a font...
In-Reply-To: <1c1f75a20805170503r6327b813wc2dd1f6b62c41297@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <MON.19.MAY.2008.144510.0300.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Weytk Shannon,

Here is another tutorial for creating a simple xkb keyboard:

  http://hektor.umcs.lublin.pl/~mikosmul/computing/articles/custom-keyboard-layouts-xkb.html

I think for most roman orthographies an xkb layout is sufficient.  I
don't know about writing in Syllabics or Cherokee script.   Currently
there is a keyboard layout for Secwepemcts?n, and Inuktitut.

The package in Debian/Ubuntu that contains all of the xkb layouts is: xkb-data.

I've been working on creating keyboard layouts for the xkb-data
package for the following languages:

  http://www.languagegeek.com/alllangs/listoflangs.html

I have a Ktunaxa and SEN?O?EN keyboard made, eventually they will be
available in Debian/Ubuntu.  If you've created a new keyboard layout
that you want submitted upstream you submit it according these rules:

  http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/XKeyboardConfig/Rules

What keyboard layout do you want made? If you don't mind me asking.

Yeri Tsucws,
Neskie

On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 9:03 AM, s.t. bischoff <bischoff.st at gmail.com> wrote:
> Bill,
>
> do you know of a tutorial for creating keyboards with ubuntu?
>
> thanks,
> shannon
>
> On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 12:58 AM, William J Poser <wjposer at ldc.upenn.edu>
> wrote:
>>
>> Heather,
>>
>> I'm not a Mac user either, but there is a free tool called Ukelele
>> for editing Mac keyboards available from SIL:
>> http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&id=ukelele
>>
>> Bill


From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Tue May 20 17:57:57 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 10:57:57 -0700
Subject: Indian educator lauded (fwd link)
Message-ID: <TUE.20.MAY.2008.105757.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Indian educator lauded

Monday, May 19, 2008 5:41 PM MDT
New Mexico

GRANTS - Gloria Hale, Director of Indian Education for the Grants/Cibola County
School District, has been honored as 2008 New Mexico Indian Educator of the
Year.

The state's Public Education Department bestowed the award.

During her four years with the district, Hale has initiated the K-6 Navajo oral
language program at two elementary schools, obtained continued funding for the
K-12 Acoma Keresan language program at Laguna-Acoma High School and plans to
work with the Pueblo of Laguna to introduce the Laguna Keresan language
program.

Access full article below:
http://www.cibolabeacon.com/articles/2008/05/19/news/news2.txt


From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Wed May 21 16:32:56 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 09:32:56 -0700
Subject: Putting the 'h' back in Wanganui (fwd link)
Message-ID: <WED.21.MAY.2008.093256.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Putting the 'h' back in Wanganui

New Zealand
The Dominion Post | Wednesday, 21 May 2008

Governing bodies have a responsibility to protect and respect our indigenous
language, and that includes correct spelling, writes Rawiri Taonui.

A battle looms between "Wanganui" rednecks versus "Whanganui" Maori and their
enlightened Pakeha cohorts as iwi prepare for another tilt at getting the "h"
put back into "Wanganui".

The spelling issue was raised first before the Waitangi Tribunal and then in an
unsuccessful application to the Human Rights Commission. The name of the river
was corrected in 1991, but not that of the city. A new application is being
prepared for the National Geographic Board.

Te Runanga o Tupoho say "Whanganui" (meaning great harbour or expanse of water)
is important because it was named by their ancestor, Hau of the Aotea waka,
more than 600 years ago, and that "Wanganui" is a meaningless corruption.

Access full article below:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/4555470a1861.html


From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Wed May 21 16:46:26 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 09:46:26 -0700
Subject: 1st aboriginal culture revival zone to be set up in Taiwan (fwd
 link)
Message-ID: <WED.21.MAY.2008.094626.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Radio Taiwan International
05/18/2008

1st aboriginal culture revival zone to be set up in Taiwan

An aboriginal Thao culture revival zone will be set up in central Taiwan. The
revival zone will be the first of its kind in the country.

Access full article below:
http://english.rti.org.tw/Content/GetSingleNews.aspx?ContentID=58095


From wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU  Thu May 22 03:18:28 2008
From: wjposer at LDC.UPENN.EDU (William J Poser)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 23:18:28 -0400
Subject: Putting the 'h' back in Wanganui (fwd link)
In-Reply-To: <20080521093256.hkzcwkc08k8ck0ok@www.email.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.21.MAY.2008.231828.0400.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

For those with no knowledge of Maori, the difference between <wh> and <w>
in "Wanganui" versus "Whanganui" is not a mere matter of spelling
as the Mayor seems to think. <w> represents the same sound as in English,
while <wh> represents a voiceless bilabial fricative, similar to English
/f/ but made with both lips rather than the lower lip and upper teeth.

Bill


From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Fri May 23 06:15:35 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 23:15:35 -0700
Subject: Tribes strive to save native tongues (fwd)
Message-ID: <THU.22.MAY.2008.231535.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Tribes strive to save native tongues
In the Pacific Northwest, some 40 indigenous languages are at risk of
disappearing within a decade.

By Aaron Clark | Contributor to The Christian Science Monitor
from the May 23, 2008 edition

Warm Springs, Ore. - Grass-roots efforts to preserve and teach youngsters native
languages are intensifying around the Pacific Northwest and British Columbia as
about 40 indigenous tongues are in danger of disappearing within the next
decade.

Native leaders are compiling dictionaries, drafting lesson plans, and scrambling
to save what scraps of language they can before the last of the fluent elders
dies. In the case of Kiksht, a language spoken for centuries along Oregon's
Columbia River, there are two remaining speakers and neither can remember the
words for "yawn" or "brown."

Access full article link below:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0523/p02s01-usgn.html


From jcrippen at GMAIL.COM  Fri May 23 20:47:32 2008
From: jcrippen at GMAIL.COM (James Crippen)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 10:47:32 -1000
Subject: Putting the 'h' back in Wanganui (fwd link)
In-Reply-To: <20080522031828.E99F9B242A@lorax.ldc.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <FRI.23.MAY.2008.104732.1000.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 5:18 PM, William J Poser <wjposer at ldc.upenn.edu> wrote:
> For those with no knowledge of Maori, the difference between <wh> and <w>
> in "Wanganui" versus "Whanganui" is not a mere matter of spelling
> as the Mayor seems to think. <w> represents the same sound as in English,
> while <wh> represents a voiceless bilabial fricative, similar to English
> /f/ but made with both lips rather than the lower lip and upper teeth.

Also the same sound as in Japanese /f/ before /u/, such as the word "futon".

Can we presume that the Mayor lacks the w/wh distinction in his
English dialect? That may be why he feels it's a mere spelling
problem, since he doesn't hear the difference between "which" and
"witch". As a speaker of English retaining the w/wh distinction, the
difference in spelling would seem to be fairly important, even if I
weren't linguistically inclined.

BTW, the Hawaiian equivalent of the name would be "Hananui", with
wh->h and ng->n, through Proto-Eastern-Polynesian.

James


From johnacko at BIGPOND.COM  Sat May 24 04:58:14 2008
From: johnacko at BIGPOND.COM (John Atkinson)
Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 14:58:14 +1000
Subject: Putting the 'h' back in Wanganui (fwd link)
In-Reply-To: <caf8a68a0805231347m7112b5b1o718a6ddaa0c10f6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SAT.24.MAY.2008.145814.1000.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

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From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Tue May 27 15:50:47 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 08:50:47 -0700
Subject: Mohawk language goes country (fwd link)
Message-ID: <TUE.27.MAY.2008.085047.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Mohawk language goes country

Ontario, CA
Posted By Michael Peeling

The Mohawk language is making its mark on country music.

Margaret Peters, a language curriculum specialist with the Ahkwesahsne Mohawk
Board of Education, has taken her efforts to keep the Mohawk language alive to
another level by directing her students through the process of creating a music
video.

The choice of song, "Jackson" by Johnny and June Carter-Cash, was inspired by
Teddy Peters', Margaret's husband, and his hobby of translating country songs
into Mohawk.

Access full article below:
http://www.standard-freeholder.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1045097


From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Tue May 27 17:23:13 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 10:23:13 -0700
Subject: Student learns her roots (fwd link)
Message-ID: <TUE.27.MAY.2008.102313.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Student learns her roots
Highland High senior is studying Navajo at SLCC and on a state-funded Web site

By Ben Fulton
The Salt Lake Tribune
Article Last Updated: 05/27/2008 12:18:50 AM MDT

Growing up on the Navajo Nation reservation in Kayenta, Ariz., Charity
Yellowhair-Gilbert was embarrassed and frustrated: She understood the Navajo
language as she listened to her mother and grandmother talk, but couldn't speak
it herself.

Access full article below:
http://www.sltrib.com/Education/ci_9388891


From wiigwaas at MSN.COM  Tue May 27 17:57:01 2008
From: wiigwaas at MSN.COM (Earl Otchingwanigan)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 12:57:01 -0500
Subject: Mohawk language goes country (fwd link)
Message-ID: <TUE.27.MAY.2008.125701.0500.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Appreciate the good post ----a great and exciting idea as it may help inspire young people to further invest interest in their language using music whether traditional or via loan music and non-traditional instruments, besides it's just plain fun stuff to do ---- but it should be noted though, various native people have been doing this very same thing for sometime, including myself ---- I have for some 25 or 30 years now, been using my native language in jazz and pop genre performing with a non-traditional musical instrument.  Cheers, Earl Otchingwanigan
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: phil cash cash<mailto:cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU> 
  To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU<mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU> 
  Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 10:50 AM
  Subject: [ILAT] Mohawk language goes country (fwd link)


  Mohawk language goes country

  Ontario, CA
  Posted By Michael Peeling

  The Mohawk language is making its mark on country music.

  Margaret Peters, a language curriculum specialist with the Ahkwesahsne Mohawk
  Board of Education, has taken her efforts to keep the Mohawk language alive to
  another level by directing her students through the process of creating a music
  video.

  The choice of song, "Jackson" by Johnny and June Carter-Cash, was inspired by
  Teddy Peters', Margaret's husband, and his hobby of translating country songs
  into Mohawk.

  Access full article below:
  http://www.standard-freeholder.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1045097<http://www.standard-freeholder.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1045097>
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From rzs at WILDBLUE.NET  Tue May 27 20:24:25 2008
From: rzs at WILDBLUE.NET (Richard Smith)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 13:24:25 -0700
Subject: Mohawk language goes country (fwd link)
In-Reply-To: <BAY111-DAV952BF4EEE61E44A9C9A5AD1BD0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <TUE.27.MAY.2008.132425.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

ti?am?h Earl

i agree totally 
"Kashtin" is one of my favorite groups,(not sure they are still
together,though.)
 blending contemporary instruments/universal themes yet expressed in
indigenous language.

Using music to teach kids language just can't be underemphasized either.
I have a bag full of fun and silly songs I've composed in the Wyandot
language
that i use for teaching pronunciation, grammar, numbers, animals, etc...
all original tunes but sung with traditional waterdrum and handshakers.

Songs enter and somehow bi-pass alot of "dangerous intersections" of the
mind
Wish more teachers understood this...it would have helped me alot as a youth

-Richard 
Wyandotte, Oklahoma



On 5/27/08 10:57 AM, "Earl Otchingwanigan" <wiigwaas at MSN.COM> wrote:

> Appreciate the good post ----a great and exciting idea as it may help inspire
> young people to further invest interest in their language using music whether
> traditional or via loan music and non-traditional instruments, besides it's
> just plain fun stuff to do ---- but it should be noted though, various native
> people have been doing this very same thing for sometime, including myself
> ---- I have for some 25 or 30 years now, been using my native language in jazz
> and pop genre performing with a non-traditional musical instrument.  Cheers,
> Earl Otchingwanigan
>>  
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>  
>> From: phil cash cash <mailto:cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU>
>>  
>> To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
>>  
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 10:50 AM
>>  
>> Subject: [ILAT] Mohawk language goes  country (fwd link)
>>  
>> 
>> Mohawk language goes country
>> 
>> Ontario, CA
>> Posted By  Michael Peeling
>> 
>> The Mohawk language is making its mark on country  music.
>> 
>> Margaret Peters, a language curriculum specialist with the  Ahkwesahsne
>> Mohawk
>> Board of Education, has taken her efforts to keep the  Mohawk language alive
>> to
>> another level by directing her students through  the process of creating a
>> music
>> video.
>> 
>> The choice of song, "Jackson"  by Johnny and June Carter-Cash, was inspired
>> by
>> Teddy Peters', Margaret's  husband, and his hobby of translating country
>> songs
>> into  Mohawk.
>> 
>> Access full article below:
>> http://www.standard-freeholder.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1045097
> 


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From wiigwaas at MSN.COM  Tue May 27 19:16:29 2008
From: wiigwaas at MSN.COM (Earl Otchingwanigan)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 14:16:29 -0500
Subject: Mohawk language goes country (fwd link)
Message-ID: <TUE.27.MAY.2008.141629.0500.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Re: [ILAT] Mohawk language goes country (fwd link)Greetings Richard:  Appreciate your confirming comments and extending the point as to what others have contributed to the music side of learning and revitalizing/retaining language ---- I'm sure there are many other unsung [pardon the pun], native peoples out there contributing to this almost under-rated way of learning; kudos to them all.  Cheers, Earl Otchingwanigan 
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Richard Smith<mailto:rzs at WILDBLUE.NET> 
  To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU<mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU> 
  Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 3:24 PM
  Subject: Re: [ILAT] Mohawk language goes country (fwd link)


  ti?am?h Earl

  i agree totally 
  "Kashtin" is one of my favorite groups,(not sure they are still together,though.)
   blending contemporary instruments/universal themes yet expressed in indigenous language.

  Using music to teach kids language just can't be underemphasized either.
  I have a bag full of fun and silly songs I've composed in the Wyandot language
  that i use for teaching pronunciation, grammar, numbers, animals, etc...
  all original tunes but sung with traditional waterdrum and handshakers.

  Songs enter and somehow bi-pass alot of "dangerous intersections" of the mind
  Wish more teachers understood this...it would have helped me alot as a youth

  -Richard 
  Wyandotte, Oklahoma



  On 5/27/08 10:57 AM, "Earl Otchingwanigan" <wiigwaas at MSN.COM> wrote:


    Appreciate the good post ----a great and exciting idea as it may help inspire young people to further invest interest in their language using music whether traditional or via loan music and non-traditional instruments, besides it's just plain fun stuff to do ---- but it should be noted though, various native people have been doing this very same thing for sometime, including myself ---- I have for some 25 or 30 years now, been using my native language in jazz and pop genre performing with a non-traditional musical instrument.  Cheers, Earl Otchingwanigan


      ----- Original Message ----- 
       
      From: phil cash cash <mailto:cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU><mailto:cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU>  
       
      To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU 
       
      Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 10:50 AM
       
      Subject: [ILAT] Mohawk language goes  country (fwd link)
       

      Mohawk language goes country

      Ontario, CA
      Posted By  Michael Peeling

      The Mohawk language is making its mark on country  music.

      Margaret Peters, a language curriculum specialist with the  Ahkwesahsne Mohawk
      Board of Education, has taken her efforts to keep the  Mohawk language alive to
      another level by directing her students through  the process of creating a music
      video.

      The choice of song, "Jackson"  by Johnny and June Carter-Cash, was inspired by
      Teddy Peters', Margaret's  husband, and his hobby of translating country songs
      into  Mohawk.

      Access full article below:
      http://www.standard-freeholder.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1045097<http://www.standard-freeholder.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1045097>




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From hsouter at GMAIL.COM  Tue May 27 20:13:13 2008
From: hsouter at GMAIL.COM (Heather Souter)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 15:13:13 -0500
Subject: Mohawk language goes country (fwd link)
In-Reply-To: <BAY111-DAV25DBA3876F3C20F812591D1BD0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <TUE.27.MAY.2008.151313.0500.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Taanshi, Earl and Richard,

I am excited to hear how you are using music to express and teach your
languages!  I have a friend speaks Cree and teaches the language--Laura
Burnof.  She sings and has made a recording of songs for children in Cree.

Also, since you have heard of Kashtin, I wonder if you have heard of Carl
Quinn?  He is a Cree man from the Saddle Lake Reserve in Alberta Canada.
Quite an artist and visionary!  Not everyone may like his music, but he
sings in Cree and is a talented musician.  Take a listen and read more about
him at
http://cdbaby.com/cd/carlquinn

By the way, I am teaching myself how to play guitar (country?!) and am
starting to sing in Michif, my langauge.  You guys are an inspiration to me!

Eekoshi pitamaa. That's all for now!
Heather

2008/5/27 Earl Otchingwanigan <wiigwaas at msn.com>:

>  Greetings Richard:  Appreciate your confirming comments and extending the
> point as to what others have contributed to the music side of learning and
> revitalizing/retaining language ---- I'm sure there are many other
> unsung [pardon the pun], native peoples out there contributing to this
> almost under-rated way of learning; kudos to them all.  Cheers, Earl
> Otchingwanigan
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Richard Smith <rzs at WILDBLUE.NET>
> *To:* ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 27, 2008 3:24 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [ILAT] Mohawk language goes country (fwd link)
>
> ti?am?h Earl
>
> i agree totally
> "Kashtin" is one of my favorite groups,(not sure they are still
> together,though.)
>  blending contemporary instruments/universal themes yet expressed in
> indigenous language.
>
> Using music to teach kids language just can't be underemphasized either.
> I have a bag full of fun and silly songs I've composed in the Wyandot
> language
> that i use for teaching pronunciation, grammar, numbers, animals, etc...
> all original tunes but sung with traditional waterdrum and handshakers.
>
> Songs enter and somehow bi-pass alot of "dangerous intersections" of the
> mind
> Wish more teachers understood this...it would have helped me alot as a
> youth
>
> -Richard
> Wyandotte, Oklahoma
>
>
>
> On 5/27/08 10:57 AM, "Earl Otchingwanigan" <wiigwaas at MSN.COM> wrote:
>
> Appreciate the good post ----a great and exciting idea as it may help
> inspire young people to further invest interest in their language using
> music whether traditional or via *loan music *and *non-traditional
> instruments, *besides it's just plain fun stuff to do ---- but it should
> be noted though, various native people have been doing this very same thing
> for sometime, including myself ---- I have for some 25 or 30 years now, been
> using my native language in jazz and pop genre performing with a
> non-traditional musical instrument.  Cheers, Earl Otchingwanigan
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* phil cash cash <mailto:cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU><cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU>
>
> *To:* ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 27, 2008 10:50 AM
>
> *Subject:* [ILAT] Mohawk language goes  country (fwd link)
>
>
> Mohawk language goes country
>
> Ontario, CA
> Posted By  Michael Peeling
>
> The Mohawk language is making its mark on country  music.
>
> Margaret Peters, a language curriculum specialist with the  Ahkwesahsne
> Mohawk
> Board of Education, has taken her efforts to keep the  Mohawk language
> alive to
> another level by directing her students through  the process of creating a
> music
> video.
>
> The choice of song, "Jackson"  by Johnny and June Carter-Cash, was inspired
> by
> Teddy Peters', Margaret's  husband, and his hobby of translating country
> songs
> into  Mohawk.
>
> Access full article below:
> http://www.standard-freeholder.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1045097
>
>
>
>
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From wiigwaas at MSN.COM  Tue May 27 21:29:23 2008
From: wiigwaas at MSN.COM (Earl Otchingwanigan)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 16:29:23 -0500
Subject: Mohawk language goes country (fwd link)
Message-ID: <TUE.27.MAY.2008.162923.0500.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Greetings Heather: Thank you.  Earl Otchingwanigan
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Heather Souter<mailto:hsouter at GMAIL.COM> 
  To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU<mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU> 
  Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 3:13 PM
  Subject: Re: [ILAT] Mohawk language goes country (fwd link)


  Taanshi, Earl and Richard,

  I am excited to hear how you are using music to express and teach your languages!  I have a friend speaks Cree and teaches the language--Laura Burnof.  She sings and has made a recording of songs for children in Cree.  

  Also, since you have heard of Kashtin, I wonder if you have heard of Carl Quinn?  He is a Cree man from the Saddle Lake Reserve in Alberta Canada.   Quite an artist and visionary!  Not everyone may like his music, but he sings in Cree and is a talented musician.  Take a listen and read more about him at
  http://cdbaby.com/cd/carlquinn<http://cdbaby.com/cd/carlquinn>

  By the way, I am teaching myself how to play guitar (country?!) and am starting to sing in Michif, my langauge.  You guys are an inspiration to me!

  Eekoshi pitamaa. That's all for now!
  Heather


  2008/5/27 Earl Otchingwanigan <wiigwaas at msn.com<mailto:wiigwaas at msn.com>>:

    Greetings Richard:  Appreciate your confirming comments and extending the point as to what others have contributed to the music side of learning and revitalizing/retaining language ---- I'm sure there are many other unsung [pardon the pun], native peoples out there contributing to this almost under-rated way of learning; kudos to them all.  Cheers, Earl Otchingwanigan 
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: Richard Smith<mailto:rzs at WILDBLUE.NET> 
      To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU<mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU> 
      Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 3:24 PM
      Subject: Re: [ILAT] Mohawk language goes country (fwd link)


      ti?am?h Earl

      i agree totally 
      "Kashtin" is one of my favorite groups,(not sure they are still together,though.)
       blending contemporary instruments/universal themes yet expressed in indigenous language.

      Using music to teach kids language just can't be underemphasized either.
      I have a bag full of fun and silly songs I've composed in the Wyandot language
      that i use for teaching pronunciation, grammar, numbers, animals, etc...
      all original tunes but sung with traditional waterdrum and handshakers.

      Songs enter and somehow bi-pass alot of "dangerous intersections" of the mind
      Wish more teachers understood this...it would have helped me alot as a youth

      -Richard 
      Wyandotte, Oklahoma



      On 5/27/08 10:57 AM, "Earl Otchingwanigan" <wiigwaas at MSN.COM<mailto:wiigwaas at MSN.COM>> wrote:


        Appreciate the good post ----a great and exciting idea as it may help inspire young people to further invest interest in their language using music whether traditional or via loan music and non-traditional instruments, besides it's just plain fun stuff to do ---- but it should be noted though, various native people have been doing this very same thing for sometime, including myself ---- I have for some 25 or 30 years now, been using my native language in jazz and pop genre performing with a non-traditional musical instrument.  Cheers, Earl Otchingwanigan


          ----- Original Message ----- 
           
          From: phil cash cash <mailto:cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU><mailto:cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU>  
           
          To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU<mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU> 
           
          Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 10:50 AM
           
          Subject: [ILAT] Mohawk language goes  country (fwd link)
           

          Mohawk language goes country

          Ontario, CA
          Posted By  Michael Peeling

          The Mohawk language is making its mark on country  music.

          Margaret Peters, a language curriculum specialist with the  Ahkwesahsne Mohawk
          Board of Education, has taken her efforts to keep the  Mohawk language alive to
          another level by directing her students through  the process of creating a music
          video.

          The choice of song, "Jackson"  by Johnny and June Carter-Cash, was inspired by
          Teddy Peters', Margaret's  husband, and his hobby of translating country songs
          into  Mohawk.

          Access full article below:
          http://www.standard-freeholder.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1045097<http://www.standard-freeholder.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1045097>






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From neskiem at GMAIL.COM  Wed May 28 02:23:08 2008
From: neskiem at GMAIL.COM (Neskie Manuel)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 23:23:08 -0300
Subject: Mohawk language goes country (fwd link)
In-Reply-To: <BAY111-DAV337C239CC1450077FD119D1BD0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <TUE.27.MAY.2008.232308.0300.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Weytk-p,

This summer I rode my bike across the country and I learned about this
lady who sings pop songs in Anishnaabe.    I think she's from
Wikwemikong on Manitoulin Island.  Does anybody know who she is?

2008/5/27 Earl Otchingwanigan <wiigwaas at msn.com>:
> Greetings Heather: Thank you.  Earl Otchingwanigan
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Heather Souter
> To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
> Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 3:13 PM
> Subject: Re: [ILAT] Mohawk language goes country (fwd link)
> Taanshi, Earl and Richard,
>
> I am excited to hear how you are using music to express and teach your
> languages!  I have a friend speaks Cree and teaches the language--Laura
> Burnof.  She sings and has made a recording of songs for children in Cree.
>
> Also, since you have heard of Kashtin, I wonder if you have heard of Carl
> Quinn?  He is a Cree man from the Saddle Lake Reserve in Alberta Canada.
> Quite an artist and visionary!  Not everyone may like his music, but he
> sings in Cree and is a talented musician.  Take a listen and read more about
> him at
> http://cdbaby.com/cd/carlquinn
>
> By the way, I am teaching myself how to play guitar (country?!) and am
> starting to sing in Michif, my langauge.  You guys are an inspiration to me!
>
> Eekoshi pitamaa. That's all for now!
> Heather
>
> 2008/5/27 Earl Otchingwanigan <wiigwaas at msn.com>:
>>
>> Greetings Richard:  Appreciate your confirming comments and extending the
>> point as to what others have contributed to the music side of learning and
>> revitalizing/retaining language ---- I'm sure there are many other
>> unsung [pardon the pun], native peoples out there contributing to this
>> almost under-rated way of learning; kudos to them all.  Cheers, Earl
>> Otchingwanigan
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Richard Smith
>> To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 3:24 PM
>> Subject: Re: [ILAT] Mohawk language goes country (fwd link)
>> ti?am?h Earl
>>
>> i agree totally
>> "Kashtin" is one of my favorite groups,(not sure they are still
>> together,though.)
>>  blending contemporary instruments/universal themes yet expressed in
>> indigenous language.
>>
>> Using music to teach kids language just can't be underemphasized either.
>> I have a bag full of fun and silly songs I've composed in the Wyandot
>> language
>> that i use for teaching pronunciation, grammar, numbers, animals, etc...
>> all original tunes but sung with traditional waterdrum and handshakers.
>>
>> Songs enter and somehow bi-pass alot of "dangerous intersections" of the
>> mind
>> Wish more teachers understood this...it would have helped me alot as a
>> youth
>>
>> -Richard
>> Wyandotte, Oklahoma
>>
>>
>>
>> On 5/27/08 10:57 AM, "Earl Otchingwanigan" <wiigwaas at MSN.COM> wrote:
>>
>> Appreciate the good post ----a great and exciting idea as it may help
>> inspire young people to further invest interest in their language using
>> music whether traditional or via loan music and non-traditional instruments,
>> besides it's just plain fun stuff to do ---- but it should be noted though,
>> various native people have been doing this very same thing for sometime,
>> including myself ---- I have for some 25 or 30 years now, been using my
>> native language in jazz and pop genre performing with a non-traditional
>> musical instrument.  Cheers, Earl Otchingwanigan
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> From: phil cash cash <mailto:cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU>
>>
>> To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
>>
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 10:50 AM
>>
>> Subject: [ILAT] Mohawk language goes  country (fwd link)
>>
>>
>> Mohawk language goes country
>>
>> Ontario, CA
>> Posted By  Michael Peeling
>>
>> The Mohawk language is making its mark on country  music.
>>
>> Margaret Peters, a language curriculum specialist with the  Ahkwesahsne
>> Mohawk
>> Board of Education, has taken her efforts to keep the  Mohawk language
>> alive to
>> another level by directing her students through  the process of creating a
>> music
>> video.
>>
>> The choice of song, "Jackson"  by Johnny and June Carter-Cash, was
>> inspired by
>> Teddy Peters', Margaret's  husband, and his hobby of translating country
>> songs
>> into  Mohawk.
>>
>> Access full article below:
>> http://www.standard-freeholder.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1045097
>>
>>
>
>


From rzs at WILDBLUE.NET  Wed May 28 14:57:58 2008
From: rzs at WILDBLUE.NET (Richard Smith)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 07:57:58 -0700
Subject: Mohawk language goes country (fwd link)
In-Reply-To: <6d8c8c410805271313x23e329d2m1d446479026eb3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <WED.28.MAY.2008.075758.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

ti?am?h Heather and Earl,

thanks for sharing Carl Quinn...so great...gotta hear more!
as a young man I spent a couple weeks fighting fires out in the bush
in Northern Saskatchewan with a group of Cree from the Sturgeon Lake
reserve...
hearing the language sung brings back memories...

Does Laura Burnof have a cd of her kids songs available?
When you see her tell her a Wyandot from Oklahoma would love to exchange
children 
song cds!      We ALL need to inspire each other
           
  >>>-------> <(returning forward)> <--------<<<

Funny thing ,when Wyandot adults here hear the songs and ditties
they often say..."you should teach US that way!"
I usually shake my head and say..."what? with all the puppets too?"

   --+--=<<(+)>>=--+--

   Richard (S?h?hiy?h)
   Wyandotte, Oklahoma





On 5/27/08 1:13 PM, "Heather Souter" <hsouter at GMAIL.COM> wrote:

> Taanshi, Earl and Richard,
> 
> I am excited to hear how you are using music to express and teach your
> languages!  I have a friend speaks Cree and teaches the language--Laura
> Burnof.  She sings and has made a recording of songs for children in Cree.
> 
> Also, since you have heard of Kashtin, I wonder if you have heard of Carl
> Quinn?  He is a Cree man from the Saddle Lake Reserve in Alberta Canada.
> Quite an artist and visionary!  Not everyone may like his music, but he sings
> in Cree and is a talented musician.  Take a listen and read more about him at
> http://cdbaby.com/cd/carlquinn
> 
> By the way, I am teaching myself how to play guitar (country?!) and am
> starting to sing in Michif, my langauge.  You guys are an inspiration to me!
> 
> Eekoshi pitamaa. That's all for now!
> Heather
> 
> 2008/5/27 Earl Otchingwanigan <wiigwaas at msn.com>:
>> Greetings Richard:  Appreciate your confirming comments and extending the
>> point as to what others have contributed to the music side of learning and
>> revitalizing/retaining language ---- I'm sure there are many other unsung
>> [pardon the pun], native peoples out there contributing to this almost
>> under-rated way of learning; kudos to them all.  Cheers, Earl Otchingwanigan
>>>  
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>  
>>> From: Richard Smith <mailto:rzs at WILDBLUE.NET>
>>>  
>>> To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
>>>  
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 3:24 PM
>>>  
>>> Subject: Re: [ILAT] Mohawk language goes  country (fwd link)
>>>  
>>> 
>>> ti?am?h Earl
>>> 
>>> i agree totally
>>> "Kashtin" is  one of my favorite groups,(not sure they are still
>>> together,though.)
>>>  blending contemporary instruments/universal themes  yet expressed in
>>> indigenous language.
>>> 
>>> Using music to teach kids  language just can't be underemphasized either.
>>> I have a bag full of fun and  silly songs I've composed in the Wyandot
>>> language
>>> that i use for teaching  pronunciation, grammar, numbers, animals, etc...
>>> all original tunes but  sung with traditional waterdrum and handshakers.
>>> 
>>> Songs enter and  somehow bi-pass alot of "dangerous intersections" of the
>>> mind
>>> Wish more  teachers understood this...it would have helped me alot as a
>>> youth
>>> 
>>> -Richard 
>>> Wyandotte, Oklahoma
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 5/27/08 10:57  AM, "Earl Otchingwanigan" <wiigwaas at MSN.COM> wrote:
>>> 
>>>  
>>>> Appreciate the good post ----a great and exciting  idea as it may help
>>>> inspire young people to further invest interest in their  language using
>>>> music whether traditional or via loan music and  non-traditional
>>>> instruments, besides it's just plain fun stuff to do  ---- but it should be
>>>> noted though, various native people have been doing  this very same thing
>>>> for sometime, including myself ---- I have for some 25  or 30 years now,
>>>> been using my native language in jazz and pop genre  performing with a
>>>> non-traditional musical instrument.  Cheers, Earl  Otchingwanigan
>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>  
>>>>> From: phil cash cash <mailto:cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU>
>>>>>  
>>>>> To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
>>>>>  
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 10:50  AM
>>>>>  
>>>>> Subject: [ILAT] Mohawk language goes  country  (fwd link)
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Mohawk language goes country
>>>>> 
>>>>> Ontario,  CA
>>>>> Posted By  Michael Peeling
>>>>> 
>>>>> The Mohawk language is making  its mark on country  music.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Margaret Peters, a language  curriculum specialist with the  Ahkwesahsne
>>>>> Mohawk
>>>>> Board of  Education, has taken her efforts to keep the  Mohawk language
>>>>> alive  to
>>>>> another level by directing her students through  the process of  creating
>>>>> a music
>>>>> video.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The choice of song, "Jackson"  by  Johnny and June Carter-Cash, was
>>>>> inspired by
>>>>> Teddy Peters', Margaret's   husband, and his hobby of translating country
>>>>> songs
>>>>> into   Mohawk.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Access full article below:
>>>>> http://www.standard-freeholder.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1045097
>>>> 
>>> 
> 
> 


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From hsouter at GMAIL.COM  Wed May 28 14:27:30 2008
From: hsouter at GMAIL.COM (Heather Souter)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 09:27:30 -0500
Subject: Mohawk language goes country (fwd link)
In-Reply-To: <C462C106.4966%rzs@wildblue.net>
Message-ID: <WED.28.MAY.2008.092730.0500.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Taanshi, Richard (eekwa kiishtawaaw! and all of you, too!)

I will ask Laura for you about the CD.  BTW, she is actually from Northern
Saskatchewan!  Small world, eh!

Also, I am pleased to tell you that I got SO inspired yesterday that I
actually wrote a children's song in Michif (My Auntie's Bannock) for my
auntie who does language work with me.  She was thrilled!  (So, was I
because I got all the grammar, etc, correct!)  Anyhow,  it was great fun and
I think I will continue on with it.  It helped cement my learning....

Kichi-maarsii kihtwaam!  Thanks very much again!

Heather

On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 9:57 AM, Richard Smith <rzs at wildblue.net> wrote:

>  ti?am?h Heather and Earl,
>
> thanks for sharing Carl Quinn...so great...gotta hear more!
> as a young man I spent a couple weeks fighting fires out in the bush
> in Northern Saskatchewan with a group of Cree from the Sturgeon Lake
> reserve...
> hearing the language sung brings back memories...
>
> Does Laura Burnof have a cd of her kids songs available?
> When you see her tell her a Wyandot from Oklahoma would love to exchange
> children
> song cds!      We ALL need to inspire each other
>
>   >>>-------> <(*returning forward*)> <--------<<<
>
> Funny thing ,when Wyandot adults here hear the songs and ditties
> they often say..."you should teach US that way!"
> I usually shake my head and say..."what? with all the puppets too?"
>
>    --+--=<<(+)>>=--+--
>
>    Richard (S?h?hiy?h)
>    Wyandotte, Oklahoma
>
>
>
>
>
> On 5/27/08 1:13 PM, "Heather Souter" <hsouter at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>
> Taanshi, Earl and Richard,
>
> I am excited to hear how you are using music to express and teach your
> languages!  I have a friend speaks Cree and teaches the language--Laura
> Burnof.  She sings and has made a recording of songs for children in Cree.
>
> Also, since you have heard of Kashtin, I wonder if you have heard of Carl
> Quinn?  He is a Cree man from the Saddle Lake Reserve in Alberta Canada.
>   Quite an artist and visionary!  Not everyone may like his music, but he
> sings in Cree and is a talented musician.  Take a listen and read more about
> him at
> http://cdbaby.com/cd/carlquinn
>
> By the way, I am teaching myself how to play guitar (country?!) and am
> starting to sing in Michif, my langauge.  You guys are an inspiration to me!
>
> Eekoshi pitamaa. That's all for now!
> Heather
>
> 2008/5/27 Earl Otchingwanigan <wiigwaas at msn.com>:
>
> Greetings Richard:  Appreciate your confirming comments and extending the
> point as to what others have contributed to the music side of learning and
> revitalizing/retaining language ---- I'm sure there are many other unsung
> [pardon the pun], native peoples out there contributing to this almost
> under-rated way of learning; kudos to them all.  Cheers, Earl Otchingwanigan
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* Richard Smith <mailto:rzs at WILDBLUE.NET> <rzs at WILDBLUE.NET>
>
> *To:* ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 27, 2008 3:24 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: [ILAT] Mohawk language goes  country (fwd link)
>
>
> ti?am?h Earl
>
> i agree totally
> "Kashtin" is  one of my favorite groups,(not sure they are still
>  together,though.)
>  blending contemporary instruments/universal themes  yet expressed in
> indigenous language.
>
> Using music to teach kids  language just can't be underemphasized either.
> I have a bag full of fun and  silly songs I've composed in the Wyandot
> language
> that i use for teaching  pronunciation, grammar, numbers, animals, etc...
> all original tunes but  sung with traditional waterdrum and handshakers.
>
> Songs enter and  somehow bi-pass alot of "dangerous intersections" of the
> mind
> Wish more  teachers understood this...it would have helped me alot as a
>  youth
>
> -Richard
> Wyandotte, Oklahoma
>
>
>
> On 5/27/08 10:57  AM, "Earl Otchingwanigan" <wiigwaas at MSN.COM> wrote:
>
>
>
> Appreciate the good post ----a great and exciting  idea as it may help
> inspire young people to further invest interest in their  language using
> music whether traditional or via *loan music *and  *non-traditional
> instruments, *besides it's just plain fun stuff to do  ---- but it should
> be noted though, various native people have been doing  this very same thing
> for sometime, including myself ---- I have for some 25  or 30 years now,
> been using my native language in jazz and pop genre  performing with a
> non-traditional musical instrument.  Cheers, Earl  Otchingwanigan
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* phil cash cash <mailto:cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU><cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU>
>
> *To:* ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 27, 2008 10:50  AM
>
> *Subject:* [ILAT] Mohawk language goes  country  (fwd link)
>
>
> Mohawk language goes country
>
> Ontario,  CA
> Posted By  Michael Peeling
>
> The Mohawk language is making  its mark on country  music.
>
> Margaret Peters, a language  curriculum specialist with the  Ahkwesahsne
> Mohawk
> Board of  Education, has taken her efforts to keep the  Mohawk language
> alive  to
> another level by directing her students through  the process of  creating a
> music
> video.
>
> The choice of song, "Jackson"  by  Johnny and June Carter-Cash, was
> inspired by
> Teddy Peters', Margaret's   husband, and his hobby of translating country
> songs
> into   Mohawk.
>
> Access full article below:
> http://www.standard-freeholder.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1045097
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Thu May 29 16:49:55 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 09:49:55 -0700
Subject: Director Makes the First Film in Inuit Dialect (fwd link)
Message-ID: <THU.29.MAY.2008.094955.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Director Makes the First Film in Inuit Dialect

May 28, 2008
By Halley Bondy

When actor and filmmaker Andrew Okpeaha MacLean was growing up in Fairbanks and
Barrow, Alaska, the English language dominated his film and TV viewing -- and
his vocabulary -- at the expense of his mother's native Inuit dialect, Inupiaq.
"My mom tried to teach me with varying degrees of success," he said. "But my
generation was absorbed in English.... Now I feel like I lost something."

Access full article below:
http://www.backstage.com/bso/news_reviews/nyc/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003809242


From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Thu May 29 20:38:47 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 13:38:47 -0700
Subject: Incredible pictures of one of Earth's last uncontacted tribes
 firing bows and arrows (fwd link)
Message-ID: <THU.29.MAY.2008.133847.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Incredible pictures of one of Earth's last uncontacted tribes firing bows and
arrows

By MICHAEL HANLON
Last updated at 6:53 PM on 29th May 2008

Skin painted bright red, heads partially shaved, arrows drawn back in the
longbows and aimed square at the aircraft buzzing overhead. The gesture is
unmistakable: Stay Away.

Behind the two men stands another figure, possibly a woman, her stance also
seemingly defiant. Her skin painted dark, nearly black.

The apparent aggression shown by these people is quite understandable. For they
are members of one of Earth's last uncontacted tribes, who live in the Envira
region in the thick rainforest along the Brazilian-Peruvian frontier.

Access full article below:
http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/news/article-1022822/Incredible-pictures-Earths-uncontacted-tribes-firing-bows-arrows.html


From cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Thu May 29 23:13:21 2008
From: cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (phil cash cash)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 16:13:21 -0700
Subject: Arwarbukarl - Miromaa - WIN NATIONAL IT AWARD - Media Release
 (fwd)
Message-ID: <THU.29.MAY.2008.161321.0700.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Australia
Media Release

A non-profit Aboriginal Organisation based in Newcastle, NSW has taken out a top
award at the recent Australian Community Information and Communications
Technology (ICT) Awards held in Brisbane. Arwarbukarl Cultural Resource
Association Incorporated (ACRA) were joint winners for the category ?Best use
of Software in nonprofit settings? for their development and distribution of
the ?Miromaa? software program.

There were once over 10,000 traditional languages in the world. Today, every two
weeks one of those languages is lost and Australia is most at risk of losing its
traditional languages (estimated to have been between 250 and 500). Linguists
and community leaders around the world are struggling to stem this loss. It is
through the use of technology that Indigenous people globally are now
attempting to access tools to capture, preserve and promote traditional
languages.

Daryn McKenny an Aboriginal man from the Newcastle area and Manager of ACRA, is
the person behind the development of Miromaa. Daryn says ?It?s through
technology that we can empower ourselves to be hands-on with work that was in
the past carried out only by trained academics and linguists. Until recently
all of the computer programs available for language recording have been aimed
at the academics, and my goal with Miromaa has been to create a tool that our
community members can easily understand and put into use.?

Over the last 4 years ACRA have been developing Miromaa to assist in the
reclamation, revitalisation and preservation of the traditional Aboriginal
languages of Australia. The main aim of the computer program is to be a user
friendly interface for Aboriginal people to use technology in all aspects of
language maintenance -from entering textual evidence of language through to the
rich multimedia products of video, audio and images, and even producing word
lists and dictionaries. Miromaa is able to assist in all aspects of the unique
? an urgent task which Aboriginal people from all over Australia are embarking
on.

Mckenny goes on to say ?Like many of our people we like a challenge. Miromaa is
what happened when we faced this challenge. I?m really happy that it?s now
helping our people in all states of Australia to get involved once again and
work towards speaking our languages. Our languages hold our culture and the
knowledge of this country. They tell who we are and where we are from. Many say
that language is our soul. Our work is creating a happy marriage of the world?s
oldest culture and the world?s newest culture, technology. We like to call
this, Modern Ways for Ancient Words?.

ACRA is funded under the Federal Governments Department of Environment, Water,
Heritage and the Arts and its Maintenance for Indigenous Language Records
grants scheme. In 2007 they were also recognised for their innovative training
methods in travelling to rural and remote areas of Australia, this training
which centred around up-skilling Aboriginal people in the latest technology was
supported by Microsoft Australia and their Corporate Citizenship program
?Unlimited Potential?. All of ACRA?s activities are aimed to deliver a product
which is user friendly and is backed up by the necessary training.

Media Contacts:

Arwarbukarl CRA - Daryn McKenny Ph 0428 963 363
CISA (Award Organisers) ? Doug Jaquier Ph 08 8122 2752

Web http://www.cisa.asn.au/cgi-bin/wf.pl and
http://www.connectingup.org/conference/

About Arwarbukarl CRA

www.arwarbukarl.com.au

About Miromaa

http://www.arwarbukarl.com.au/default.aspx?id=153

Further Information

The other joint winner was Support Link Australia, for a web based application
that enhances early intervention outcomes for vulnerable individuals and
families.
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From thien at UNIMELB.EDU.AU  Thu May 29 23:14:01 2008
From: thien at UNIMELB.EDU.AU (Nick Thieberger)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 09:14:01 +1000
Subject: Call for papers,
 1st International Conference on Language Documentation and
 Conservation
Message-ID: <FRI.30.MAY.2008.091401.1000.>

The *1st International Conference on Language Documentation and Conservation
(ICLDC) * will be held at the
<http://www.eastwestcenter.org/about-cc.asp>University
of Hawai'i at Manoa <http://manoa.hawaii.edu/> , from *March 12th-14th, 2009
*. There will also be an optional opportunity to visit Hilo, on the Big
Island of Hawai'i, in an extension of the conference that will focus on the
Hawaiian language revitalization program, *March 16th-17th.*

It has been a decade since Himmelmann's article on language documentation
appeared and focused the field into thinking in terms of creating a lasting
record of a language that could be used by speakers as well as by academics.
This conference aims to assess what has been achieved in the past decade and
what the practice of language documentation within linguistics has been and
can be. It has become apparent that there is too much for a linguist alone
to achieve and that language documentation requires collaboration. This
conference will focus on the theme of collaboration in language
documentation and revitalization and will include sessions on
interdisciplinary topics.
Plenary speakers include:

Nikolaus Himmelmann, University of M?nster
Leanne Hinton, UC Berkeley
Paul Newman, Indiana University, University of Michigan
Phil Cash Cash, University of Arizona
Topics

We welcome abstracts on the issue of a retrospective on language
documentation?an assessment after a decade, and on topics related to
collaborative language documentation and conservation which may include:

   - Community-based documentation/conservation initiatives
   - Issues in building language documentation in collaborative teams
   - Interdisciplinary fieldwork
   - Collaboration for mobilization of language data
   - Technology in documentation ? methods and pitfalls
   - Graduate students and documentation
   - Topics in areal language documentation
   - Training in documentation methods ? beyond the university
   - Teaching/learning small languages
   - Language revitalization
   - Language archiving

This is not an exhaustive list and individual papers and/or colloquia on
topics outside these remits are warmly welcomed.
Abstract submission

Abstracts should be submitted in English, but presentations can be in any
language. We particularly welcome presentations in languages of the region.

*Abstracts are due by September 15th, 2008, with notification of acceptance
by October 17th, 2008.
Abstracts will be submitted online via the conference webpage (available
July 2008).*
We ask for *abstracts of 400 words* for online publication so that
conference participants can have a good idea of the content of your paper
and a *50 word summary* for inclusion in the conference program.

Selected papers from the conference will be invited to submit to the journal
*Language Documentation & Conservation <http://nflrc.hawaii.edu/ldc/>* for
publication.

Further details will be published on the conference website:
http://nflrc.hawaii.edu/ICLDC09

Enquiries to: ICLDC at hawaii.edu
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From nflrc at HAWAII.EDU  Fri May 30 01:15:15 2008
From: nflrc at HAWAII.EDU (National Foreign Language Resource Center)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 15:15:15 -1000
Subject: Call for Proposals: 1st International Conference on Language
 Documentation and Conservation (Honolulu, Hawaii - March 12-14,
 2009)
Message-ID: <THU.29.MAY.2008.151515.1000.ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>

Apologies for any cross-postings . . .


1st International Conference on Language Documentation and Conservation:
Supporting Small Languages Together. Honolulu, Hawai'i, March 12-14, 2009
http://nflrc.hawaii.edu/ICLDC09


The 1st International Conference on Language Documentation and
Conservation (ICLDC) will be held at the Hawaii Imin International
Conference Center, on the east side of the University of Hawaii at Manoa
campus, from March 12th-14th, 2009. There will also be an optional
opportunity to visit Hilo, on the Big Island of Hawai'i, in an extension
of the conference that will focus on the Hawaiian language revitalization
program, March 16th-17th.

It has been a decade since Himmelmann's article on language documentation
appeared and focused the field into thinking in terms of creating a
lasting record of a language that could be used by speakers as well as by
academics. This conference aims to assess what has been achieved in the
past decade and what the practice of language documentation within
linguistics has been and can be. It has become apparent that there is too
much for a linguist alone to achieve and that language documentation
requires collaboration. This conference will focus on the theme of
collaboration in language documentation and revitalization and will
include sessions on interdisciplinary topics.


TOPICS

We welcome abstracts on the issue of a retrospective on language
documentation - an assessment after a decade, and on topics related to
collaborative language documentation and conservation which may include:

- Community-based documentation/conservation initiatives
- Community viewpoints on documentation
- Issues in building language documentation in collaborative teams
- Interdisciplinary fieldwork
- Collaboration for mobilization of language data
- Technology in documentation - methods and pitfalls
- Graduate students and documentation
- Topics in areal language documentation
- Training in documentation methods - beyond the university
- Teaching/learning small languages
- Language revitalization
- Language archiving
- Balancing documentation and language learning

This is not an exhaustive list and individual papers and/or colloquia on
topics outside these remits are warmly welcomed.


ABSTRACT SUBMISSION

Abstracts should be submitted in English, but presentations can be in any
language. We particularly welcome presentations in languages of the
region.

ABSTRACTS ARE DUE BY SEPTEMBER 15th, 2008 with notification of acceptance
by October 17th 2008.

Abstracts will be SUBMITTED ONLINE via the conference webpage (available
July 2008).

We ask for ABSTRACTS OF 400 WORDS for online publication so that
conference participants can have a good idea of the content of your paper
and a 50 WORD SUMMARY for inclusion in the conference program.

Selected papers from the conference will be invited to submit to the
journal Language Documentation & Conservation for publication.


PRESENTATION FORMATS

PAPERS will be allowed 20 minutes with 10 minutes of question time.
POSTERS will be on display throughout the conference. Poster presentations
will run during the lunch breaks.
COLLOQUIA (themed sets of sessions) associated with the theme of the
conference are also welcome.


PLENARY SPEAKERS include:

* Nikolaus Himmelmann, University of Munster
* Leanne Hinton, UC Berkeley
* Paul Newman, Indiana University, University of Michigan
* Phil Cash Cash, University of Arizona


ADVISORY COMMITTEE
Helen Aristar-Dry (LinguistList, Eastern Michigan University)
Peter Austin (SOAS)
Linda Barwick (Music, University of Sydney)
Phil Cash Cash (University of Arizona)
Nicholas Evans (Linguistics, Australian National University)
Margaret Florey (Linguistics, Monash University)
Carol Genetti (Linguistics, University of California, Santa Barbara)
Spike Gildea (University of Oregon)
Colette Grinevald (University of Lyon)
Nikolaus Himmelmann (Institut fur Allgemeine Sprachwissenschaft
Westfalische Wilhelms-Universitat Munster)
Leanne Hinton (UC Berkeley)
Gary Holton (Alaska Native Language Center)
Anna Margetts (Linguistics, Monash University)
Will McClatchey (Botany, University of Hawai'i)
Claire Moyse-Faurie (LACITO, CNRS)
Ulrike Mosel (Seminar fur Allgemeine Sprachwissenschaft, Universitat Kiel)
Paul Newman (Indiana University, University of Michigan)
Yuko Otsuka (Linguistics, University of Hawai'i)
Keren D. Rice (University of Toronto)
Norvin Richards (Massachusetts Institute of Technology)


Further details will be published on the conference website:
http://nflrc.hawaii.edu/ICLDC09

Enquiries to: ICLDC at hawaii.edu


*************************************************************************
  N           National Foreign Language Resource Center
   F          University of Hawai'i
    L         1859 East-West Road, #106
     R        Honolulu HI 96822
      C       voice: (808) 956-9424, fax: (808) 956-5983
              email: nflrc at hawaii.edu
VISIT OUR WEBSITE!   http://nflrc.hawaii.edu
*************************************************************************


From hal1403 at YAHOO.COM  Sat May 31 19:26:31 2008
From: hal1403 at YAHOO.COM (Haley De Korne)
Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 12:26:31 -0700
Subject: Anishinaabe pop songs
In-Reply-To: <6838a1930805271923v17992e4wa722db6539d4d0f4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SAT.31.MAY.2008.122631.0700.>

Neskie,

Helen Roy (from Manitoulin Island) has put out a few CDs, "Diiva Miinwaa Davis", translating old &amp; new pop songs into Anishinaabemowin.&nbsp; She also teaches the language at Michigan State University- and anywhere else that she's asked to go, maandakwe!&nbsp; I bet that's who you heard about.
Well done on the bike trip!
Haley

--- On Tue, 5/27/08, Neskie Manuel &lt;neskiem at GMAIL.COM&gt; wrote:

From: Neskie Manuel &lt;neskiem at GMAIL.COM&gt;
Subject: Re: [ILAT] Mohawk language goes country (fwd link)
To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Date: Tuesday, May 27, 2008, 10:23 PM

Weytk-p,

This summer I rode my bike across the country and I learned about this
lady who sings pop songs in Anishnaabe.    I think she's from
Wikwemikong on Manitoulin Island.  Does anybody know who she is?

2008/5/27 Earl Otchingwanigan &lt;wiigwaas at msn.com&gt;:
&gt; Greetings Heather: Thank you.  Earl Otchingwanigan
&gt;
&gt; ----- Original Message -----
&gt; From: Heather Souter
&gt; To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
&gt; Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 3:13 PM
&gt; Subject: Re: [ILAT] Mohawk language goes country (fwd link)
&gt; Taanshi, Earl and Richard,
&gt;
&gt; I am excited to hear how you are using music to express and teach your
&gt; languages!  I have a friend speaks Cree and teaches the language--Laura
&gt; Burnof.  She sings and has made a recording of songs for children in Cree.
&gt;
&gt; Also, since you have heard of Kashtin, I wonder if you have heard of Carl
&gt; Quinn?  He is a Cree man from the Saddle Lake Reserve in Alberta Canada.
&gt; Quite an artist and visionary!  Not everyone may like his music, but he
&gt; sings in Cree and is a talented musician.  Take a listen and read more
about
&gt; him at
&gt; http://cdbaby.com/cd/carlquinn
&gt;
&gt; By the way, I am teaching myself how to play guitar (country?!) and am
&gt; starting to sing in Michif, my langauge.  You guys are an inspiration to
me!
&gt;
&gt; Eekoshi pitamaa. That's all for now!
&gt; Heather
&gt;
&gt; 2008/5/27 Earl Otchingwanigan &lt;wiigwaas at msn.com&gt;:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Greetings Richard:  Appreciate your confirming comments and extending
the
&gt;&gt; point as to what others have contributed to the music side of learning
and
&gt;&gt; revitalizing/retaining language ---- I'm sure there are many other
&gt;&gt; unsung [pardon the pun], native peoples out there contributing to this
&gt;&gt; almost under-rated way of learning; kudos to them all.  Cheers, Earl
&gt;&gt; Otchingwanigan
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; ----- Original Message -----
&gt;&gt; From: Richard Smith
&gt;&gt; To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
&gt;&gt; Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 3:24 PM
&gt;&gt; Subject: Re: [ILAT] Mohawk language goes country (fwd link)
&gt;&gt; ti?am?h Earl
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; i agree totally
&gt;&gt; "Kashtin" is one of my favorite groups,(not sure they are
still
&gt;&gt; together,though.)
&gt;&gt;  blending contemporary instruments/universal themes yet expressed in
&gt;&gt; indigenous language.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Using music to teach kids language just can't be underemphasized
either.
&gt;&gt; I have a bag full of fun and silly songs I've composed in the
Wyandot
&gt;&gt; language
&gt;&gt; that i use for teaching pronunciation, grammar, numbers, animals,
etc...
&gt;&gt; all original tunes but sung with traditional waterdrum and
handshakers.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Songs enter and somehow bi-pass alot of "dangerous
intersections" of the
&gt;&gt; mind
&gt;&gt; Wish more teachers understood this...it would have helped me alot as a
&gt;&gt; youth
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; -Richard
&gt;&gt; Wyandotte, Oklahoma
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; On 5/27/08 10:57 AM, "Earl Otchingwanigan"
&lt;wiigwaas at MSN.COM&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Appreciate the good post ----a great and exciting idea as it may help
&gt;&gt; inspire young people to further invest interest in their language
using
&gt;&gt; music whether traditional or via loan music and non-traditional
instruments,
&gt;&gt; besides it's just plain fun stuff to do ---- but it should be
noted though,
&gt;&gt; various native people have been doing this very same thing for
sometime,
&gt;&gt; including myself ---- I have for some 25 or 30 years now, been using
my
&gt;&gt; native language in jazz and pop genre performing with a
non-traditional
&gt;&gt; musical instrument.  Cheers, Earl Otchingwanigan
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; ----- Original Message -----
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; From: phil cash cash &lt;mailto:cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 10:50 AM
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Subject: [ILAT] Mohawk language goes  country (fwd link)
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Mohawk language goes country
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Ontario, CA
&gt;&gt; Posted By  Michael Peeling
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; The Mohawk language is making its mark on country  music.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Margaret Peters, a language curriculum specialist with the 
Ahkwesahsne
&gt;&gt; Mohawk
&gt;&gt; Board of Education, has taken her efforts to keep the  Mohawk language
&gt;&gt; alive to
&gt;&gt; another level by directing her students through  the process of
creating a
&gt;&gt; music
&gt;&gt; video.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; The choice of song, "Jackson"  by Johnny and June
Carter-Cash, was
&gt;&gt; inspired by
&gt;&gt; Teddy Peters', Margaret's  husband, and his hobby of
translating country
&gt;&gt; songs
&gt;&gt; into  Mohawk.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Access full article below:
&gt;&gt; http://www.standard-freeholder.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1045097
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt;


      
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From phonosemantics at EARTHLINK.NET  Sat May 31 21:23:32 2008
From: phonosemantics at EARTHLINK.NET (jess tauber)
Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 16:23:32 -0500
Subject: Anishinaabe pop songs
Message-ID: <SAT.31.MAY.2008.162332.0500.PHONOSEMANTICS@EARTHLINK.NET>

I'm finding this new thread intriguing. Yahgan has no real song tradition, but there's nothing in the language itself that would stop folks if they wanted to create one. Any suggestions?

Jess Tauber
phonosemantics at earthlink.net