<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE></TITLE>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1126" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#c8e0d8>
<DIV><FONT face="Bookman Old Style" size=2>Native technology speakers are
those people who were born when computers were already present in their life
space. They are considered "native speakers of technology" because technology
has its own language (bit, byte, Gig, object, avatar, core dump, dumping, blue
screen, transaction, memory leak, to name but a few "words"). People who learned
the language of technology early speak it as well (or sometimes better than)
conversational languages. However, what is noticeable is that people who are
native technology speakers have a fluency with technology that the "immigrants"
don't have. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Bookman Old Style" size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Bookman Old Style" size=2>This is becoming important as
technology becomes more pervasive. Being "computer literate" is no longer the
same thing. Now, "computer literate" people can turn on the box, suft the web,
send some email. Native speakers push the envelope of multi-media fusions,
evidenced by the Flash movies showing up everywhere, and things like voice and
picture recognition, sophisticated compression algorigthms, and even a small bit
of cool software that can be used for revitalization. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Bookman Old Style" size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Bookman Old Style" size=2>Mia</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=mshawaway@WSTRIBES.ORG href="mailto:mshawaway@WSTRIBES.ORG">Myra
Shawaway</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
href="mailto:ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU">ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, August 26, 2004 10:03
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Study of obscure Amazon
tribe sheds new light on how language affects perception (fwd)</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The thoughts projected have only left me further
in the dark. I do not understand the definition of 'native technology
speakers'. any more than I understand what is meant by 'native languages run
away and hide'. What I do know is our people of this community
understand the connectivity of language and ancestoral cultural as it was and
how the changes that are brought on have to be adjusted to and move forward
with the new. We know that part of the difficulities of continuing our
languages is the history of how we lost the languages. So, I continually
wonder if words such as 'cognitive', 'kinesthetic', 'hypothesis',
'abstraction', 'tech-language', 'nouns', 'verbs' are parts of any tribal
languages and if not, how do we create an understanding of those
words and apply to teachings done by fluent speakers today. This is
great conversation. </FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=MiaKalish@LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US
href="mailto:MiaKalish@LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US">MiaKalish - LFP</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
href="mailto:ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU">ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, August 26, 2004 7:12
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Study of obscure Amazon
tribe sheds new light on how language affects perception (fwd)</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Bookman Old Style">I'm not sure that this is a true
statement "As our oral traditions are diminishing, so is the ability to
grasp the skills needed for passing on our languages." in that I don't
believe that our "ability" is tied to "oral tradition". Instead, I believe
that our failure is based on the refusal to understand the basic nature of
words. First, they are references. They are not the referent. Secondly,
on the primary or basic level, nouns and verbs are different from each
other. They are processed in different parts of the brain, are accompanied
by different cognitive processes and different kinesthetic responses.
Thirdly, within a language, collections words are processed into different
levels of abstraction. And abstractions are culture dependent. I believe
that it is right here, at issues of abstraction, that language-anything,
preservation, revitalization, and understanding, all fail. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Bookman Old Style"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Bookman Old Style">People jumped all over the Sapir-Whorf
hypothesis, without thinking it through. The mere fact that the deficit view
exists vis a vis language is a clear indication that people are still
engaged in wrong-making. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Bookman Old Style"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Bookman Old Style">I am going to hazard the hypothesis that
the penalties for wrong-making are experienced and lived by its makers,
for as time passes, native technology speakers emerge. These
tech languages serve their function, and have their own meanings as do
other human languages. But they do not run away and hide as do some of the
native languages. Instead, they exist, and continue to thrive, and the
penalties are exclusion. Wrong-making excludes those who do it from
understanding the nature of the languages, and we are seeing all
around us the failure of tech-language immigrants to be successful at
understanding and applying the new technologies developed by the tech
natives. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Bookman Old Style"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Bookman Old Style">Daniel Wildcat said, in a presentation
at New Mexico State, that "the problem with Indian education is
the </FONT><FONT face="Bookman Old Style">problem with
education". I believe that this same principle applies: The problem with
Indian language learning and revitalization is the problem with language
learning and revitalization (including the tech languages)." </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Bookman Old Style"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Bookman Old Style">Mia</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Bookman Old Style"></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=mward@LUNA.CC.NM.US href="mailto:mward@LUNA.CC.NM.US">Matthew
Ward</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
href="mailto:ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU">ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, August 20, 2004 5:31
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Study of obscure Amazon
tribe sheds new light on how language affects perception (fwd)</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>No doubt, languages reflects the world view of the cultures
that use them. However, all languages must also function as
practical means of communication and survival--and all languages do in
fact serve very well in this way, in the context of the culture that the
language is found in. As cultures change, languages change with
them, and although some things are always lost, the fact remains that all
languages represent a treasure trove of shared cultural history--of not
only the present, but the past as well. <BR><BR>What a lot of people
fail to grasp is the amazing adaptability of the human language. As
I said before, it's not difficult for me to believe that some cultures
have little need to do extensive counting, and that their languages
reflect this. What I DON'T believe is that these people are
imprisoned by their languages--that their languages, as the article states
lack the "right" linguistic resources. Those resources can and will
be developed as needed, even if it involves linguistic borrowing, which is
a perfectly natural and legitimate form of language evolution.
<BR><BR>The deficit view, which depends partially on denying the
adaptive quality of human language, and which is refuted by the vast
majority of research on language, in my experience is one of the biggest
enemies of language preservation. "They are all right in the bush,
but you can't possibly expect them to deal with the modern world."
Nonsense, I say. If the Israelis can take Hebrew from being a
nearly dead ceremonial language to the lingua franca of a fairly high-tech
society, any language community can do the same. There is no such
thing as a "primitive" language, no matter how dearly some people seem
determined to discover one. <BR><BR>Myra Shawaway wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid002201c486eb$7de654a0$1d40420a@ctwsdom.pri
type="cite"><PRE wrap="">Interesting? the idea of having an exacting concept to numbers and time in
a scientific sense, has created difficulties in preservation of our
languages. As I work with our speakers of languages, I believe that the
concept of numbers is a seen thing, or sense of duty to cultural
environment, as is the sense of time when spoken about in past events that
have occured. As our oral traditions are diminishing, so is the ability to
grasp the skills needed for passing on our languages. We are moving from a
natural way of understanding needs and environment, to enjoying the comforts
of science and the outcomes.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthew Ward" <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:mward@LUNA.CC.NM.US"><mward@LUNA.CC.NM.US></A>
To: <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU"><ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU></A>
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2004 7:02 AM
Subject: Re: Study of obscure Amazon tribe sheds new light on how language
affects perception (fwd)
</PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE wrap="">I particularly like this sentence:
"What these experiments show, according to Gordon, is how having the
right linguistic resources can carve out one's reality."
The "right" lingustic resources, eh? I suppose that this study is seen as
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE wrap=""><!---->evidence that some people just don't have the right stuff--gotta get those
Portuguese-speakers in there to right the situation.
</PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE wrap="">I'm curious to see if, in 20 years, we are going to read an article
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE wrap=""><!---->showing that the claims made about this tribe are about as accurate as
Whorf's claim that Hopi had no words for time...
</PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE wrap="">phil cash cash wrote:
</PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE wrap="">Public release date: 19-Aug-2004
<A class=moz-txt-link-freetext href="http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2004-08/tccu-soo081804.php">http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2004-08/tccu-soo081804.php</A>
Contact: Diane Dobry
<A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:dd173@columbia.edu">dd173@columbia.edu</A>
212-678-3979
Teachers College, Columbia University
Study of obscure Amazon tribe sheds new light on how language affects
perception
Controversial linguistic hypothesis is supported by Teachers College
(Columbia University) professor's observation of tribe whose language
contains no words for numbers beyond 'one,' 'two' and 'many.'
During the late 1930s, amateur linguist Benjamin Lee Whorf posed the
theory that language can determine the nature and content of thought.
But are there concepts in one culture that people of another culture
simply cannot understand because their language has no words for it?
No one has ever definitively answered that question, but new findings by
Dr. Peter Gordon, a bio-behavioral scientist at Teachers College,
Columbia University, strongly support a "yes" answer. Gordon has spent
the past several years studying the Pirahã, an isolated Amazon tribe of
fewer than 200 people, whose language contains no words for numbers
beyond "one," "two" and "many." Even the Piraha word for "one" appears
to refer to "roughly one" or a small quantity, as opposed to the exact
connotation of singleness in other languages.
What these experiments show, according to Gordon, is how having the
right linguistic resources can carve out one's reality. "Whorf says
that language divides the world into different categories," Gordon
said. "Whether one language chooses to distinguish one thing versus
another affects how an individual perceives reality."
When given numerical tasks by Gordon in which they were asked to match
small sets of objects in varying configurations, adult members of the
tribe responded accurately with up to two or three items, but their
performance declined when challenged with eight to 10 items, and
dropped to zero with larger sets of objects. The only exception to this
performance was with tasks involving unevenly spaced objects. Here, the
performance of participants deteriorated as the number of items
increased to 6 items. Yet for sets of 7 to 10 objects, performance was
near perfect. Though these tasks were designed to be more difficult,
Gordon hypothesizes that the uneven spacing allowed subjects to
perceive the items as smaller "chunks" of 2 or 3 items that they could
then match to corresponding groups.
According to the study, performance by the Piraha was poor for set sizes
above 2 or 3, but it was not random. "Pirahã participants were actually
trying very hard to get the answers correct, and they clearly
understood the tasks," Gordon said. Participants showed evidence of
using methods of estimation and chunking to guess at quantities in
larger set sizes. On average, they performed about as well as college
students engaged in more complex numerical estimation tasks. Their
skill levels were similar to those in pre-linguistic infants, monkeys,
birds and rodents, and appeared to correlate to recent brain imaging
studies indicating a different sort of numerical competence that seems
to be immune to numerical language deprivation. Interestingly, Gordon
noted, while Pirahã adults had difficulty learning larger numbers,
Piraha children did not.
While the Pirahã words for "one" and "two" do not necessarily always
refer to those specific amounts, Gordon also found that members of the
tribe never used those words in combination to denote larger
quantities. In the study, they also used their fingers in addition to
their verbal statement of quantity, but this practice, too, was found
to be highly inaccurate even for small numbers less than five.
The Pirahã language has no word for "number," and pronouns do not
designate number--"he" and "they" are the same word. Most standard
quantifiers like "more," "several," "all," and "each" do not exist. In
general, while containing a very complex verb structure common to many
Native American languages, the Pirahã language does not allow for
certain kinds of comparative constructions. For example, it was not
possible to ask participants whether one group of objects "has more
nuts than the other" because of the lack of that construction in the
Pirahã grammar. Yet, the word they use for "many," which in that
language was derived from a form ob the verb meaning "to bring
together," is distinct from a word that means something like "much."
###
Details of the study will appear in the Thursday, August 19, issue of
the journal Science.
Teachers College is the largest graduate school of education in the
nation. Teachers College is affiliated with Columbia University, but it
is legally and financially independent. The editors of U.S. News and
World Report have ranked Teachers College as one of the leading
graduate schools of education in the country. For more information,
please visit the college's Web site at <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="http://www.tc.columbia.edu">www.tc.columbia.edu</A>.
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE wrap=""><!---->
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>