<div>Mia,</div>
<div>I couldn't agree more, because we have found all of the same conditions/recommendations. But the use of high quality equipment, in the field, still yields much better and much longer lasting recordings and should be considered. We had some problems just this weekend with a high end recorder, just because it was not initially easy to use. That led us to rethink what equipment is best and/or how much more training is needed. Guess all I'm saying is that there are lots of options now (I have also used your same recorder) and that making more of an investment in high quality is worth it in the long run. We are also in the business of creating tons of stuff for the community and are putting that responsibility into the hands of community members -- so I really understand what you are saying. Nevertheless, that makes the quality of the recordings even more valuable and we should all be striving not just for lots of stuff but for the best possible stuff, given the recording conditions.
</div>
<div>Best,</div>
<div>Susan<br><br> </div>
<div><span class="gmail_quote">On 1/31/06, <b class="gmail_sendername">Mia Kalish</b> <<a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:MiaKalish@learningforpeople.us" target="_blank">MiaKalish@learningforpeople.us
</a>> wrote:</span>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">
<div>
<p><font face="Arial" color="navy" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Hi, Susan, </span></font></p>
<p><font face="Arial" color="navy" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> </span></font></p>
<p><font face="Arial" color="navy" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I didn't read the whole main thread, but I thought I was perceiving a recommendation for "recording studio quality" for archival recording. Bringing people into a sound controlled studio is very different from working in communities where we create tons and tons of material for use by the community.
</span></font></p>
<p><font face="Arial" color="navy" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> </span></font></p>
<p><font face="Arial" color="navy" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">When we were doing this initially 4-5 years ago now, Depree and I created a whole checklist of things we wanted to be able to do, with a focus of working in the community. For us, the considerations ranked approximately as follows:
</span></font></p>
<p style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.75in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in"><font face="Arial" color="navy" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><span>1.<font face="Times New Roman" size="1"><span> </span>
</font></span></span></font><font face="Arial" color="navy" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Elder comfort</span></font></p>
<p style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.75in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in"><font face="Arial" color="navy" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><span>2.<font face="Times New Roman" size="1"><span> </span>
</font></span></span></font><font face="Arial" color="navy" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Affordable by community members</span></font></p>
<p style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.75in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in"><font face="Arial" color="navy" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><span>3.<font face="Times New Roman" size="1"><span> </span>
</font></span></span></font><font face="Arial" color="navy" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">High quality recording</span></font></p>
<p style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.75in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in"><font face="Arial" color="navy" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><span>4.<font face="Times New Roman" size="1"><span> </span>
</font></span></span></font><font face="Arial" color="navy" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Convenience</span></font></p>
<p style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.75in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in"><font face="Arial" color="navy" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><span>5.<font face="Times New Roman" size="1"><span> </span>
</font></span></span></font><font face="Arial" color="navy" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">High portability</span></font></p>
<p style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.75in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in"><font face="Arial" color="navy" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><span>6.<font face="Times New Roman" size="1"><span> </span>
</font></span></span></font><font face="Arial" color="navy" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Battery-powered </span></font></p>
<p style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.75in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in"><font face="Arial" color="navy" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><span>7.<font face="Times New Roman" size="1"><span> </span>
</font></span></span></font><font face="Arial" color="navy" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Ease of use, for us & for community members</span></font></p>
<p><font face="Arial" color="navy" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> </span></font></p>
<p><font face="Arial" color="navy" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Our goal was to work with communities to show them how they could take a major hand in designing and developing their own resources. As such, many of our considerations incorporated the needs of the Community in our assessment of recorders. Sophisticated, expensive recorders wouldn't be appropriate; special recording rooms and devices would take us out of the community and would also be difficult to use in places where people live. We didn't want to use our hosts' electricity; for some people, this is a financial hardship, even for small requirements. We were also prepared for places where there is no electricity; or where the travel to and from the locale is challenging, as for example, the path down the Grand Canyon to the Havapai. So we included all these considerations in our analysis.
</span></font></p>
<p><font face="Arial" color="navy" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> </span></font></p>
<p><font face="Arial" color="navy" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Mia</span></font></p>
<div>
<div style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align="center"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<hr align="center" width="100%" size="2">
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<p><b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</span></font></b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:
<a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU" target="_blank">ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU</a>] <b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </span></b>Susan Penfield<br>
<b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, January 31, 2006 7:59 AM<span><br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</span></b> <a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU" target="_blank">
ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU</a><br></span>
<div><span><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [ILAT] Affordable digital recorder advice</span></div></span></font>
<p></p>
<p></p></p></div>
<div><span>
<p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </span></font></p>
<p style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Mia, Jan and all,<br>Just a thought here -- It seems to me that we might not want to distinguish between the uses for revitalization and documentation. Good quality is needed on both fronts since they really play into each other. I think that ease of use is important (for some of us less techie folks), and certainly cost is an issue for many, but getting good archival quality doesn't necessarily mean giving up all the other things Mia referred and,increasingly, those of us who do revitalization work need to be mindful that many of those recordings may end up as the only documentation of the language.
<br>Best,<br>Susan</span></font></p>
<div>
<p><span><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">On 1/31/06, <b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Jan Tucker</span></b> <<a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:jtucker@starband.net" target="_blank">
jtucker@starband.net</a>> wrote:</span></font></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Thank you all for the information you provided about affordable digital recorders. I'm looking at this one right now. </span></font></p>
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<p><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Yes, I'm using it for language revitalization, and would like the best possible quality and least degredation. I have about 100 to spend on the devise and the accessories such as a microphone.
</span></font></p></div>
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<h1><b><font face="Arial" color="#333333" size="2"><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Olympus</span></font></b><font face="Arial" color="#333333" size="2"><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
VN-960PC Digital Voice Recorder, with LCD Display - Built-in 128MB Flash Memory and PC Link</span></font></h1>
<h1><b><font face="Arial" color="black" size="2"><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> </span></font></b><font face="Verdana" color="#333333" size="2"><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">
</span></font><font face="Verdana" color="#333333" size="3"><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Any further comments would be welcome. Here is a link with specifications.
</span></font><font face="Verdana" color="#333333" size="2"><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></span></font></h1></td></tr></tbody></table></div>
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<p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </span></font></p></div>
<p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=389757&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation#Recording" target="_blank">
<font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=389757&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation#Recording
</span></font></a></span></font></p></div>
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<p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </span></font></p></div>
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<h1><b><font face="Arial" color="#333333" size="2"><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">In recording format they say ADPCM (Adaptive Differential Pulse code Modulation)(WAV on PC). Can I assume then this is a .wav format recorder?
</span></font></b><font face="Arial"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></span></font></h1></div>
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<p><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Thank you,</span></font></p></div>
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<p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </span></font></p></div>
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<p><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Jan</span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p><span><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">----- Original Message ----- </span></font></span></p>
<div>
<p><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">From: "Nicholas Thieberger" <</span></font><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:thien@UNIMELB.EDU.AU" target="_blank">
<font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">thien@UNIMELB.EDU.AU </span></font></a><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">></span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">To: <</span></font><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU" target="_blank"><font face="Arial" size="2">
<span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU</span></font> </a><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">></span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 2:30 PM</span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Subject: Re: [ILAT] Affordable digital recorder advice</span></font></p></div></div>
<div><span>
<div>
<p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </span></font></p></div>
<p><span><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">> David,</span></font></span><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><br><span>> </span><br>
<span>> If it does not record in WAV format then it is not archival. |If it </span><br><span>> records in a compressed form like WMA, mp3, or others, and then </span><br><span>> converts to WAV it means the actual recording has already lost lots
</span><br><span>> of the signal. The m-audio microtrack records to WAV and is around </span><br><span>> US$300 and is not too bad, it has some problem with preamps.</span><br><span>> </span><br><span>> Nick</span>
<br><span>> </span><br><span>> At 11:17 AM -0800 30/1/06, David Lewis wrote:</span><br><span>>>Hi Nicholas,</span><br><span>>>I checked out the first website mentioned and they wrote this as to </span><br>
<span>>>an archival quality format "For audio, use WAV </span><br><span>>><</span></span></font><span><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://emeld.org/school/glossary.html#wav" target="_blank">
<font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">http://emeld.org/school/glossary.html#wav </span></font></a></span><span><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
> format." </span></font></span><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><br><span>>>Coincidentally, I was at Best Buy last night and looked over their </span><br><span>>>selection and chose the lower end of the higher end devices, the
</span><br><span>>>WS-100. It is supposed to transfer directly into Microsoft WMA </span><br><span>>>format to the computer. I'm pretty sure I can then convert it to WAV </span><br><span>>>format either with Windows Media player or ITunes. Any advice here?
</span><br><span>>>the device cost $100. the next higher device was $149.00.</span><br><span>>>David Lewis</span><br><span>>></span><br><span>>>Nicholas Thieberger wrote:</span><br><span>>></span>
<br><span>>>>--></span><br><span>>>>Just to add to this thread from an archival perspective. If you are </span><br><span>>>>recording unique things that you want to be available to </span><br>
<span>>>>generations to come then you need to think about the format of what </span><br><span>>>>you are recording and whether it will endure. Olympus and other </span><br><span>>>>small (and cheap, unfortunately) recorders do not record in
</span><br><span>>>>archival formats.</span><br><span>>>></span><br><span>>>>For a summary of the issues around longterm storage of recorded </span><br><span>>>>material and endangered languages you could look at
</span><br><span>>>><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://emeld.org/school/index.html" target="_blank">http://emeld.org/school/index.html</a>.</span><br><span>>>></span><br>
<span>>>>There was a discussion of recorders on the RNLD list and if you go </span><br><span>>>>to the archive of the RNLD list, here: </span><br><span>>>><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?S1=resource-network-linguistic-diversity" target="_blank">
http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?S1=resource-network-linguistic-diversity </a></span><br><span>>>>and search for 'flash' and 'recorder' you will get some useful info</span><br><span>>>></span>
<br><span>>>>A summary item is here: </span></span></font><span><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://linguistlist.org/issues/16/16-2710.html" target="_blank"><font face="Arial" size="2">
<span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">http://linguistlist.org/issues/16/16-2710.html</span></font></a></span><br><span><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">>>>
</span></font></span><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><br><span>>>>All the best,</span><br><span>>>></span><br><span>>>>Nick Thieberger</span><br><span>
>>></span><br><span>>>>At 7:36 AM -0700 30/1/06, Mia Kalish wrote:</span><br><span>>>></span><br><span>>>>>Jan & all,</span><br><span>>>>></span><br><span>>>>>I have been using Olympus digital recorders for years now. They have 3
</span><br><span>>>>>quality settings (low, medium, & high) and 2 recording modes (one for</span><br><span>>>>>meetings, one for one-to-one). The ones I buy are about $99. I recently got</span>
<br><span>>>>>a Sony refurb unit for $32 at <a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://e-cost.com/" target="_blank">e-cost.com</a>.</span><br><span>>>>></span><br><span>
>>>>I didn't read the thread about recorders, because I'm really happy with</span><br><span>>>>>mine, and I had shared about it before.</span><br><span>>>></span><br><span>>>>>Mia
</span><br><span>>>></span><br><span>>>></span><br><span>>>>--</span><br><span>>>></span><br><span>>>>Project Manager</span><br><span>>>>PARADISEC</span><br><span>>>>Department of Linguistics and Applied Linguistics
</span><br><span>>>>University of Melbourne, Vic 3010</span><br><span>>>>Australia</span><br><span>>>></span><br><span>>>><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:nicholas.thieberger@paradisec.org.au" target="_blank">
nicholas.thieberger@paradisec.org.au </a></span><br><span>>>>Ph 61 (0)3 8344 5185</span><br><span>>>></span><br><span>>>>PARADISEC</span><br><span>>>>Pacific And Regional Archive for Digital Sources in Endangered Cultures
</span><br><span>>>><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://paradisec.org.au/" target="_blank">http://paradisec.org.au</a></span><br><span>> </span><br><span>> </span><br><span>
> -- </span><br><span>> Project Manager</span><br><span>> PARADISEC</span><br><span>> Department of Linguistics and Applied Linguistics</span><br><span>> University of Melbourne, Vic 3010</span><br><span>> Australia
</span><br><span>> </span><br><span>> </span></span></font><span><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:nicholas.thieberger@paradisec.org.au" target="_blank"><font face="Arial" size="2">
<span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">nicholas.thieberger@paradisec.org.au </span></font></a></span><br><span><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">> Ph 61 (0)3 8344 5185
</span></font></span><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><br><span>> </span><br><span>> PARADISEC</span><br><span>> Pacific And Regional Archive for Digital Sources in Endangered Cultures
</span><br><span>> </span></span></font><span><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://paradisec.org.au/" target="_blank"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
http://paradisec.org.au </span></font></a></span><br><span><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">></span></font> </span></p></span></div></div>
<p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D.<br><br>Department of English<br>Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics <br>and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program
<br>American Indian Language Development Institute<br>Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 </span></font></p></span></div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D.<br><br>Department of English
<br>Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics <br>and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program<br>American Indian Language Development Institute<br>Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836