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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I guess as a techie I always assume that
people assume that anything that’s in a database can be printed. And it can be
printed in any format, sequence, or category. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Maybe most people are familiar with those
online databases where you put in one word or sentence, and get one back. My
Apache dictionary looks like an Excel spreadsheet, and I can sort it any way I
like. I can write it to FlashPaper and print it – which, incidentally, is one
of the reasons I have FlashPaper. I don’t have to worry about whether people have
the fonts installed. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>If people want to learn more about this, I
can send you a copy of the dictionary, and the fonts, with installation
instructions for people who need them. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Excel spreadsheets are directly importable
to Access and MySQL. Tables can be defined to use particular fonts so you don’t
lose the sort sequence. Then, with the database, you can format your reports
however you like . . . pages and pages and pages of beautifully scripted paper.
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Thanks for the compliment. . . . <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Mia<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> <st1:PersonName
w:st="on">Indigenous Languages and Technology</st1:PersonName>
[mailto:ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf
Of </span></b>Susan Penfield<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Saturday, February 25, 2006
11:46 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [ILAT] Linguistic
Matls IN the language of study</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Mia,<br>
Sure a searchable data base is a workable option. Guess I'm thinking in
eventual hard copy results...and a data base option that is more usable by
community members.<br>
There is a Zuni dictionary done this way but I haven't had a chance to look at
it... (Thanks to Jane and Ken Hill for this reference!)<br>
<br>
Bena:we Dana:we Word Categories. Developed by Wilfred Eriacho, Sr. Edited by
Wilfred Eriacho, Sr. and Rena Gonzales. Illustrated by Eldred Sanchez.<br>
Published by Zuni Public School District No. 89 - 1998. <br>
<br>
Nice quote from your paper! <br>
Best,<br>
Susan<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmailquote><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>On 2/25/06, <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Mia
Kalish</span></b> <<a href="mailto:MiaKalish@learningforpeople.us"
target="_blank"> MiaKalish@learningforpeople.us</a>> wrote:</span></font></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'>People are always having conferences on uses of technology
for Indigenous languages. Most of them are too far away for me to go . .
. until I get a faculty position . . . </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'>But imagine if people didn't have to choose a single
sequence. Imagine if they could have it any way they want . . . by category,
pronoun (1, 2, 3, 1s, 2s, 3s), -stem, keyword, source, date. This is all
information that is usually available in English – and the Hopi – dictionary.
It's not very hard to plop it into an Access or MS SQL data base. They both
support Indigenous fonts of the type where the characters are in the effective
sort range. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'>Then people could search. I have a copy of the Carolinian
dictionary. It would be cool to have this, but first, it would have to be
scanned . . . sigh. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'>But I agree with Sue that we need to talk about this more.
Here is a little passage from a conference paper I did in 2001. . . Gee, I sure
haven't changed much </span></font><font size=2 color=navy face=Wingdings><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:navy'>J</span></font><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=3 face="Book Antiqua"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
"Book Antiqua"'>When faced with a linguistic ontology quite different from that
of European languages, John Peabody Harrington approached the issue apparently
prosaically and without a sense of ideological misunderstandings that would
follow from his mapping. "There are many 'parts of speech'," he says,
"each of which behaves differently, and for which we have in English no
satisfactory nomenclature. Perhaps they may all be reduced to 'nouns,'
'pronouns,' 'verbs,' and 'modifying elements'" (Harrington, 1910). This
normalization results in a loss of the data that would otherwise have defined
the true nature of the Tewa language and simultaneously requires the
"invention" of linguistic structures and rules that are not present
in Tewa, but are essential to establishing the (supposed) integrity of the
linguistic representation (Kalish, 2001).</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Indigenous
Languages and Technology</st1:PersonName> [mailto:<a
href="mailto:ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU" target="_blank">ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU</a>]
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Susan Penfield<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Saturday, February 25, 2006
11:15 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <a
href="mailto:ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU" target="_blank">ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU</a><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [ILAT] Linguistic
Matls IN the language of study</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>All,<br>
I think the whole question of categories is something worth discussing. The
Mohave and Chemehuevi communities I am working with repeatedly requests
dictionaries organized by theme (or concept). Ideally, though much more
difficult for languages with few remaining speakers I think, the themes would
be determined by speakers (and not representative of English). For instance,
what would speakers include under a category like 'living things' ? I'm just guessing
here, but I can imagine that it might include things that English speakers
don't consider 'living' -- <br>
<br>
The importance of this is two-fold. 1) it captures traditional categories
--hence adds to language documentation and 2) it is a more user-friendly
presentation for community members to access. I'm looking at a new
software that essentially creates a Thesaurus of this type. <br>
<br>
Other thoughts?<br>
Susan<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>On
2/25/06, <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>d_z_o</span></b> <<a
href="mailto:dzo@bisharat.net" target="_blank">dzo@bisharat.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Hi Mia,
Back in <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Futa Jalon</st1:City>, <st1:country-region
w:st="on">Guinea</st1:country-region></st1:place> in the mid-80's I think I
saw a<br>
grammar of Pular in Pular. I know I saw a monolingual dictionary in<br>
Pular, done by a grad student in linguistics, typed and stenciled a<br>
few years earlier (I regret that I couldn't get a copy and hope that <br>
there is at least one still extant! Unfortunately don't have the<br>
reference handy).<br>
<br>
There may be more of such materials in some major languages of<br>
Africa - there is a university in <st1:place w:st="on">SW Nigeria</st1:place>
for instance where one <br>
can write theses in Yoruba, and it wouldn't surprise me if one has<br>
pertained to the language itself. This should be possible to verify<br>
if of interest.<br>
<br>
One last point is tangential, but when studying Chinese, I got the <br>
impression that the grammar as presented conformed to Western<br>
categories, whereas in a few instances I thought the feature of<br>
Chinese in question was more similar to an African language I know<br>
(one example is "present - past" vs. "accomplished - <br>
nonaccomplished" in verb tenses - the latter of which helped me<br>
understand the use of "le" better than the attempts to explain in<br>
terms of present & past). This in turn made me wonder if the Chinese <br>
materials in Chinese use original Chinese categories or whether they<br>
too conform to Western categories but in translation. So that might<br>
be another level of analysis beneath the language of presentation<br>
(but certainly you've thought of that already). <br>
<br>
Don<br>
<br>
<br>
Quoting Mia Kalish <<a href="mailto:MiaKalish@LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US"
target="_blank">MiaKalish@LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US</a>>:<br>
> Hi,<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Does anyone know of any cases where the results of linguistic <br>
study of<br>
> Indigenous language have been codified IN the language of study?<br>
That would<br>
> be a grammar actually written in, for example, Navajo or<br>
Jicarilla, rather<br>
> than in English, Spanish, Dutch, Russian, etc? <br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Thanks for your help. I am currently writing in my dissertation<br>
that there<br>
> are no known cases. . . . I've never seen one, but maybe in Maori?<br>
Hawaiian?<br>
> Quecha?<br>
> <br>
><br>
><br>
> Mia<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
<br clear=all>
<br>
-- <br>
Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D.<br>
<br>
Department of English<br>
Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics <br>
and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program<br>
American Indian Language Development Institute<br>
Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
<br clear=all>
<br>
-- <br>
Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D.<br>
<br>
Department of English<br>
Affiliate faculty: Department of Linguistics <br>
and the Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program<br>
American Indian Language Development Institute <br>
Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836 <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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