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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I have a story to share. But first, let me
build a little context. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>For as long as I have been doing this,
there has been lots of to-ing and fro-ing about technology, and in our case,
language revitalization. And there has been also some to-ing and fro-ing on
revitalization pedagogies. And of course, dollars, where they come from, who
gets them, how they are used. Arguments rage on; in some cases, very little
happens as they rage. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Now that everyone has the context, let me
tell you what happened, and of course, how I saw it . . . </span></font><font
size=2 color=navy face=Wingdings><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Wingdings;color:navy'>J</span></font><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> maybe it will bring some
ideas into focus. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>On Monday, one of our professors went to
the neighboring town, 25.5 miles away, to give the final exam for his class. It
was a dark and snowy-rainy-wintry night. He gave his final, and 2 people saw
him leave for home. On Tuesday, he hadn’t made it, and people were
worried; they were spreading the word, looking for him. Last year, one of his
friends, also a friend of mine, was helping him with a car incident. I said,
Why don’t you call him? My friend said, He doesn’t have a cell. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>So into the dark and stormy night –
and I can tell you it was truly miserable: rain, sleet; snow; and, unrelenting
cold – this man drove. There is a turn several – but not many –
miles out of town, where one either goes up the mountain to Tsaile, and the
warmth of the home fire – kuhg± – or follows the south rim of
Canyon de Chelly. The two terrains are vastly different, one leading up the
mountain, on paved road, with a few lights and homes, the other leading down,
past the Inn, into the canyon. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>His car was found almost 8 miles along the
rim highway, at the place where the paved road turns to dirt. His body was
found a short ways from his car. The police think he died of exposure. This man
had made a personal decision, not to have a cell phone. Can we challenge his
right to make a personal decision not to adopt a technology that could have
saved his life? I wonder if he would make a different decision today than
he had a week ago, and the year before that, and the decade before that. Would
his family encourage him to make a different decision today? <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Part of the problem with the passage of
life is that sometimes, you can’t go back and do it over. Sometimes, it
seems to me, the risks of being wrong outweigh individual feelings and
perspectives. It seems to me. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I chose Rosalyn’s email, of all the
possible choices, to share this little story over, because I absolutely agree
with her premise. I think that the bulk of the money Should go into the community,
to develop people who can make more materials For the Community. In Ndn
communities, “workforce development,” even in the world of
burgeoning technology, still means pipefitters and dental hygienists. Do we
need people with these skills? Absolutely. Should “workforce development”
be limited to this options? Absolutely not. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Developing technology takes time, skill,
and money in dynamic relationship. But if Tribes hire outside companies, no
matter who they are, and abrogate their right and their responsibility to
participate in their own advancement, or in this case, cultural and linguistic revitalization,
where will they be when the money is gone and they need more materials? How
will they pass the skills along? What about the pedagogical issues that Phil
and Andre and others have brought up? Technology is not “easy” . .
. but then, the people who lived here before Columbus arrived mastered
pretty amazing technology (Petroglyph Calendars, mounds square to fractions of
a degree; nautical navigation; sophisticated animal husbandry and plant
genetics; sun daggers; and, my personal favorite, Chaco Canyon) so there isn’t
any reason why their descendants can’t master a little simple computer
technology. After all, graphics, sounds, language, and sophisticated knowledge
representations are all in the blood. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>So I would like to end with Kaddish for my
colleague, an ancient prayer. It will not save him, but merely send good wishes
for his path. Would technology have saved him? I don’t know. But the “Maybe
it would have” haunts me, because here, we are sharing the tears of loss,
of a pain too unexplained for words. When we lost Emmanuel, we lost his
language, and the complex web of knowledge that made his language – his ideolect
– his own. Is it really so different from what we fight for every day? <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Mia <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Indigenous
Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Rrlapier@AOL.COM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, December 12, 2007
2:30 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [ILAT] Rosetta Stone</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>I have read ANA language grants for
several years. In the last couple of years I have noticed more and more efforts
to document language using technologies from outside of the community.
Oftentimes the community does not articulate how they will incorporate these
technologies into their whole language revitalization strategy or how it will
build their community capcity.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Rosetta Stone is one of those companies.
In most cases the community knew very very little about the company (they would
attach a brochure to their application) and so their grant would basically be
asking for 90% to cover the cost of RS and 10% for at home. The question I
always asked to the applicant is to show how this is "community
capacity building" -- if all the dollars leave the community?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>I think tribes need to be proactive and
require companies like RS to put most of the dollars back into the
community, by training technicians, language specialists, etc. Tribes need to
make this relationship a partnership.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Rosalyn LaPier<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Piegan Institute<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>In a message dated 12/12/2007 12:14:46
P.M. Mountain Standard Time, andrekar@NCIDC.ORG writes:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>The arguments against Rosetta stone
remind me of the complaints I <br>
have heard about the Phrasealator. Why do we need to pay so much <br>
money, people are just trying to get rich.<br>
<br>
I agree in a perfect world the items to help tribes recover and <br>
preserve their languages would be free to them (either through <br>
generosity, grants or other subsidy), but alas we are in less than a <br>
perfect world. The next best thing is to find out what works best <br>
(program, sytem, software, etc) regardless of costs and then work <br>
like the devil to get the costs covered. The paramount objective is
<br>
preservation of my language. Profiteers have to face their music <br>
when creator chooses.<br>
<br>
On Dec 10, 2007, at 5:19 PM, Mia Kalish wrote:<br>
<br>
What a lovely response, Don. I enjoyed the multiple perspectives and the<br>
thoughts that they engendered. And most of us have seen all of this, <br>
yes?<br>
By the way, a very nice lady from Rosetta Stone is on this list - or she<br>
used to be. Their technology is a lot like the technology we put <br>
together<br>
and researched. It is not exact; I don't want anyone to infer that I am<br>
implying any misbehavior on anyone's part. The point I want to make <br>
is that<br>
presenting the visual, the sound and the text simultaneously in what <br>
we did<br>
was 78% effective Across populations - that was, people who had heard <br>
Apache<br>
but were either not fluent or not literate, and people who had never <br>
been<br>
exposed to Apache ever. "Across populations" is a statistical <br>
characteristic<br>
that says that the populations are so alike they can be analyzed as a <br>
single<br>
group. This is rare in pedagogies.<br>
As for the publicity . . . Rosetta Stone advertises on television. <br>
They have<br>
lots of languages. I've lost track of how many. Publicity tells people<br>
what's happening. It tells People what Other People think is important.<br>
Right now, in New Mexico, there is a huge "DWI Blitz" (You drink;
you <br>
drive;<br>
you lose.) This is telling people who drive that people are taking <br>
driving<br>
sober very seriously. And there are lots of billboards talking about <br>
DWI;<br>
it's in the papers, on the news. Now, is this a current issue in a <br>
lot of<br>
state? No-o-o-o-o-o. But, my point here is that Publicity is how you let<br>
people know what others are thinking. I saw another sign today, "Ron
<br>
Paul<br>
for President . . . A new view" and I thought, Who is Ron Paul?
There <br>
was<br>
just one sign, and I couldn't connect it to anything else I had seen or<br>
heard. One sign won't get me to vote for Ron Paul for president, but <br>
many,<br>
many signs will get a lot of drunk drivers off the road, and will change<br>
attitudes.<br>
So maybe all the publicity for Rosetta Stone will start to change <br>
attitudes<br>
about what is important about People. For a long time, there has been <br>
the<br>
"white ruling class" and everyone else. Like Don pointed out,
there <br>
hasn't<br>
been much real knowledge about "everyone else." I am so happy to
see <br>
even<br>
the little bits of beginnings where we start to know about Everyone <br>
Else,<br>
even the Everyone Elses of us :-)<br>
<br>
Thanks Don,<br>
Really, really good piece - I think,<br>
Mia<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Indigenous Languages and Technology <br>
[mailto:ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU]<br>
On Behalf Of Don Osborn<br>
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 5:53 PM<br>
To: ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU<br>
Subject: Re: [ILAT] Rosetta Stone<br>
<br>
As I look at this thread several thoughts occur. One is Robert Chambers'<br>
discussion of "positive practitioners" and "negative
academics" in<br>
international development. The former try to do something, whatever the<br>
agenda, and sometimes ineptly. The latter critique, sometimes <br>
insightfully<br>
and incisively and sometimes less so. That is not to say that one is <br>
right<br>
and the other wrong, but that in some ways they are like two different<br>
cultures.<br>
<br>
Jess Tauber is right to point out the ironies in the historical <br>
sweep. The<br>
same dominant culture that via education and technology tried to wipe <br>
out<br>
languages or systematically marginalize them (not just in the <br>
Americas), now<br>
is in part (at least the parts you see) trying to save them. It is <br>
natural<br>
to ask why.<br>
<br>
Part of it is the dynamic of power. I've noted - again in international<br>
development - that the people in positions to do so end up occupying or<br>
pre-empting both sides (or all positions) in many debates. Even about <br>
the<br>
nature of a people themselves. This was particularly striking in several<br>
decades of debates on pastoralism in Africa - an evolution of two <br>
opposing<br>
views on the rationality or not of transhumant (semi-nomadic) <br>
herding. An<br>
evolving debate entirely outside of the cultures discussed, with <br>
indirect<br>
and imperfect references to the herders' knowledge systems, and in terms<br>
totally outside pastoralists' languages, and totally immersed in Western<br>
terms of reference.<br>
<br>
I see a little of this in discussions on languages and on languages &<br>
technology.<br>
<br>
In part, this dynamic of power is just that way, like the wind just <br>
blows.<br>
It shifts too, and you can find a way to explain it, but in the end <br>
how do<br>
you protect yourself from it and better yet use its force to some <br>
advantage?<br>
<br>
So, on one level, Jess's generalizing about "they" responds to a
real <br>
set of<br>
issues. However on another level it seems to blur some realities.<br>
<br>
When looking at the specific case of companies like Rosetta Stone (or <br>
for<br>
that matter bigger technology companies) part of what one must <br>
appreciate is<br>
the nature of the beast and the environment it is working in. The bottom<br>
line and survival in that environment is money. How to get it can raise<br>
issues, but without it, *poof*. James's suspicion is natural, but with a<br>
company, what else is new?<br>
<br>
But even that is more complex. I resist reifying the notion of <br>
corporation<br>
too far to the point of overlooking the agency of people in <br>
organizations<br>
like Rosetta Stone, who may be very sincerely devoted to somehow <br>
changing<br>
the world for better. The latter may end up being the "positive<br>
practitioners" per Chambers' dichotomy, with their more or less <br>
imperfect<br>
human (and culturally bound) understanding of what they are dealing <br>
with -<br>
and their own environment to survive in.<br>
<br>
>From what little I know of Rosetta Stone I see it as a business that <br>
is at<br>
least trying to do something. It's making good money, apparently, in <br>
general<br>
language learning with a product that has positive reviews. It's <br>
stepping<br>
outside of that market in an interesting way. Of course they are <br>
milking it<br>
for publicity too, but again, that is the nature of companies. I <br>
don't know<br>
enough about the program, its approach or results to judge it, but I'm<br>
absolutely not surprised if there are limits in terms of what they <br>
spend on<br>
it (anything has limits).<br>
<br>
Let me finish with another technology example. A company named Lancor <br>
just<br>
sued the One Laptop Per Child project for alleged use of codes in a <br>
patented<br>
keyboard. The object of both keyboards is to facilitate input of <br>
"extended<br>
Latin characters" and diacritics for West African languages. I don't
<br>
know<br>
the technical or patent issues well enough, but whatever the merits <br>
of the<br>
case may or may not be, the ultimate victims will be people who might <br>
have<br>
been able to use the technology sooner for their languages.<br>
<br>
The collateral damage to common aims from disputes over methods can be<br>
considerable, and avoidable to the extent one accepts that everyone has<br>
honorable intent. (Maybe a key question is how to establish the <br>
latter and a<br>
sense of trust.)<br>
<br>
I'd agree with Mia's bottom line conclusion that someone has to do <br>
it. If<br>
you start subtracting potential partners from the equation, are you <br>
better<br>
off?<br>
<br>
Don Osborn<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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