<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)">
<!--[if !mso]>
<style>
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style>
<![endif]-->
<title>Re: [ILAT] Mongolians first to discover America claims professor</title>
<style>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Wingdings;
panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Athabascan Naaki";
panose-1:2 11 5 2 2 2 2 2 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Book Antiqua";
panose-1:2 4 6 2 5 3 5 3 3 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Bernie;
panose-1:2 11 5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Verdana;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";}
h1
{margin-top:12.0pt;
margin-right:0in;
margin-bottom:3.0pt;
margin-left:0in;
page-break-before:always;
page-break-after:avoid;
font-size:16.0pt;
font-family:Arial;}
h2
{margin-top:12.0pt;
margin-right:0in;
margin-bottom:3.0pt;
margin-left:0in;
page-break-after:avoid;
font-size:14.0pt;
font-family:"Athabascan Naaki";
font-style:italic;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
p.BlockQuote, li.BlockQuote, div.BlockQuote
{margin-top:0in;
margin-right:0in;
margin-bottom:0in;
margin-left:.5in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
punctuation-wrap:simple;
text-autospace:none;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Book Antiqua";}
p.BulletsNumbering, li.BulletsNumbering, div.BulletsNumbering
{margin-top:0in;
margin-right:0in;
margin-bottom:0in;
margin-left:.5in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";}
p.BlockParagraph, li.BlockParagraph, div.BlockParagraph
{margin-top:0in;
margin-right:.5in;
margin-bottom:0in;
margin-left:.5in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";}
p.Heading4, li.Heading4, div.Heading4
{margin-top:0in;
margin-right:0in;
margin-bottom:0in;
margin-left:.5in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";
font-style:italic;}
p.IndentedParagraph, li.IndentedParagraph, div.IndentedParagraph
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
text-indent:.5in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";}
p.BlockParagraph0, li.BlockParagraph0, div.BlockParagraph0
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";}
p.VitaDates, li.VitaDates, div.VitaDates
{margin-top:12.0pt;
margin-right:0in;
margin-bottom:0in;
margin-left:1.6in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
text-indent:-1.6in;
punctuation-wrap:simple;
text-autospace:none;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Book Antiqua";}
p.VitaHeadings, li.VitaHeadings, div.VitaHeadings
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
text-align:center;
page-break-after:avoid;
punctuation-wrap:simple;
text-autospace:none;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Book Antiqua";
color:black;
font-weight:bold;}
span.EmailStyle25
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:Arial;
color:navy;}
@page Section1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
/* List Definitions */
@list l0
{mso-list-id:1154950907;
mso-list-type:hybrid;
mso-list-template-ids:-343928786 798125090 -1284864802 -1209636544 788566900 1163138634 -1674010664 -1438982650 918845216 -1510284950;}
@list l0:level1
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-style-link:Bullets&Numbering;
mso-level-text:\2022;
mso-level-tab-stop:.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
font-family:Bernie;}
@list l0:level2
{mso-level-start-at:184;
mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\2013;
mso-level-tab-stop:1.0in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
font-family:Bernie;}
ol
{margin-bottom:0in;}
ul
{margin-bottom:0in;}
-->
</style>
</head>
<body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=blue>
<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I like the options that the Athapascan
people could have discovered Russia! I wish I had thought of that. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>However, the possibility is closer to
being substantial than might be implied by my opening. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I discovered research at U. Manitoba a few
years ago. I summarized here: <a
href="http://www.learningforpeople.us/Lipan/AlaskanMigration.htm">http://www.learningforpeople.us/Lipan/AlaskanMigration.htm</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Actually it’s a whole web
environment, but it is pretty, and incorporates related research on New Mexico
evidence. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Says that the Athapascans were living on
the southeast corner of Glacial Lake Agassiz during the last ice age. When the
ice started to melt, Agassiz water went East, to the great lakes, where
Athapascan speakers were encountered in the 1800’s, North, to Alaska, to
the land of the midnight sun, and South. Arrow heads indicate that they went
all over the south. We know there are still Lipan people in Mexico. </span></font><font
size=2 color=navy face=Wingdings><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Wingdings;color:navy'>J</span></font><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Enjoy. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Mia <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>PS: For music buffs, what famous song,
_______ River Valley, was about the modern day Lake Agassiz water? (Maybe that’s
too much of a clue </span></font><font size=2 color=navy face=Wingdings><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:navy'>J</span></font><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'> ).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Indigenous
Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Richard Smith<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, January 11, 2008
8:02 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [ILAT] Mongolians
first to discover America claims professor</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=2 face=Verdana><span
style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Verdana'>In discussion with Greg Anderson
of Living Tongues,he found<br>
similarities in siberian and some athabaskan languages<br>
but he presented the possibility that<br>
populations of migrating americans could just as well have settled <br>
parts of Siberia and languages could have been spread this way as well.<br>
The Bering Strait might not have been The One Way Road <br>
we see on high school school maps<br>
<br>
I guess Athabaskans could claim to have discovered Russia?<br>
<br>
Richard Zane Smith<br>
Wyandotte, Oklahoma<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 1/11/08 4:01 PM, "Ryan Denzer-King"
<johndillinger43@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=2 face=Verdana><span
style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Verdana'>From what I know about the Bering Strait
theory, the crossings occurred at far too great a time depth for any
significant (at least superficial) linguistic evidence to be present.
It's my understanding that any divergences great than 10,000 years are
essentially impossible to prove, since the divergence will be great enough that
similarities in the languages due to common genetic origin will not be
statistically significantly greater than those due to chance.<br>
<br>
Ryan Denzer-King<br>
<br>
</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=2
face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Verdana'>
<hr size=3 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.5pt;
font-family:Verdana'>Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 15:29:06 -0700<br>
From: bernisantamaria@GMAIL.COM<br>
Subject: Re: [ILAT] Mongolians first to discover America claims professor (fwd)<br>
To: ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU<br>
<br>
Dear ILAT:<br>
I find this topic interesting too since I read somewhere that there had been
DNA comparisons done on American Indian and Mongolians or Asians? Does
anyone know if there was something like that in the past several years? I
believe it also stated that there were very little similarities. Regarding the
Bering Strait theory--that's all it is according to the late Prof. Vine Deloria,
it is not proven scientific fact that it occurred. Also, where is the
linguistic evidence that any Indigenous languages of the Americas are, in any
way, similar to Asian or Mongolian languages? It would seem that the
issue of parallels in language has not been proven although there have been
comparisons done. <br>
<br>
Bernadette A. Santamaria<br>
<br>
<br>
On 1/11/08, <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Dr. Dorene Wiese</span></b>
<dpwiese@aol.com> wrote: </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial'>Dear ILAT LISTSERV.<br>
<br>
The article on the Mongolians is very interesting, considering, when we visited
there with the first American Indian group in l980, they had<br>
never heard of the Bering Strait theory. It is true, however, that when we took
our group picture, some of us on Mongolian horses, in Ulan Batar,you could not
tell who the Indians were and who the Mongolians were. George Bordeaux
has great film coverage of that historic event. It was a tremendous trip. I
call that time, China before McDonalds. <br>
Dorene<br>
</span></font><font size=2 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.5pt;
font-family:Verdana'><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: phil cash cash <cashcash@EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU> <br>
To: ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU<br>
Sent: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 1:58 pm<br>
Subject: [ILAT] Mongolians first to discover America claims professor (fwd) <br>
<br>
Mongolians first to discover America claims professor<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
12:01 | 11/ 01/ 2008<br>
<br>
<a href="http://en.rian.ru/world/20080111/96196977.html">http://en.rian.ru/world/20080111/96196977.html</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
BEIJING, January 11 (RIA Novosti) - A Mongolian professor of history has said<br>
<br>
America was discovered by the Mongolians and not Christopher Columbus, as is<br>
<br>
popularly believed, the Xinhua news agency reported late on Thursday.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Professor Sumiya Jambaldorj from the Genghis Khan University in the Mongolian<br>
<br>
capital, UIan Bator, performed a study proving the similarity between American<br>
<br>
place names and words in the Mongolian language.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
"About 8,000 to 25,000 years ago, Mongols with stone tools crossed the
Aleutian<br>
<br>
Islands and arrived in America," Jambaldorj was reported as saying.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
The academic said that over 20 place names in the Alaskan Aleutian Islands
could<br>
<br>
be Mongolian.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
"Many names of places and rivers in the U.S. state of Alaska are believed
to be<br>
<br>
Mongolian," he said.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
The news agency said there were similar words in a Native American language and<br>
<br>
Mongolian, e.g. "hagaan," which means "ancestor" in
Mongolian.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Jambaldorj said there was much in common between the ancestors of the
Mongolians<br>
<br>
and the Native Americans, adding that some types of stone tools found in the<br>
<br>
Aleutian Islands had also been discovered in the Gobi desert area of Mongolia.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=2
face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Verdana'>
<hr size=3 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.5pt;
font-family:Verdana'>More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail <a
href="http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid=aolcmp00050000000003"><http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid=aolcmp00050000000003></a>
!<br>
</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.5pt;
font-family:Verdana'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=2
face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Verdana'>
<hr size=3 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.5pt;
font-family:Verdana'>Make distant family not so distant with Windows Vista® +
Windows Live™. Start now! <a
href="http://www.microsoft.com/windows/digitallife/keepintouch.mspx?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_CPC_VideoChat_distantfamily_012008"><http://www.microsoft.com/windows/digitallife/keepintouch.mspx?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_CPC_VideoChat_distantfamily_012008></a>
</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>