<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)">
<!--[if !mso]>
<style>
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style>
<![endif]-->
<style>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Helvetica;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Courier;
panose-1:2 7 4 9 2 2 5 2 4 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Wingdings;
panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Athabascan Century Gothic";
panose-1:2 11 5 2 2 2 2 2 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Athabascan Naaki";
panose-1:2 11 5 2 2 2 2 2 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Book Antiqua";
panose-1:2 4 6 2 5 3 5 3 3 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Bernie;
panose-1:2 11 5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Lucida Grande";
panose-1:0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";}
h1
{margin-top:12.0pt;
margin-right:0in;
margin-bottom:3.0pt;
margin-left:0in;
page-break-before:always;
page-break-after:avoid;
font-size:16.0pt;
font-family:Arial;}
h2
{margin-top:12.0pt;
margin-right:0in;
margin-bottom:3.0pt;
margin-left:0in;
page-break-after:avoid;
font-size:14.0pt;
font-family:"Athabascan Naaki";
font-style:italic;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
p.BlockQuote, li.BlockQuote, div.BlockQuote
{margin-top:0in;
margin-right:0in;
margin-bottom:0in;
margin-left:.5in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
punctuation-wrap:simple;
text-autospace:none;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Book Antiqua";}
p.BulletsNumbering, li.BulletsNumbering, div.BulletsNumbering
{margin-top:0in;
margin-right:0in;
margin-bottom:0in;
margin-left:.5in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Athabascan Century Gothic";}
p.BlockParagraph, li.BlockParagraph, div.BlockParagraph
{margin-top:0in;
margin-right:.5in;
margin-bottom:0in;
margin-left:.5in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";}
p.Heading4, li.Heading4, div.Heading4
{margin-top:0in;
margin-right:0in;
margin-bottom:0in;
margin-left:.5in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";
font-style:italic;}
p.IndentedParagraph, li.IndentedParagraph, div.IndentedParagraph
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
text-indent:.5in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";}
p.BlockParagraph0, li.BlockParagraph0, div.BlockParagraph0
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";}
p.VitaDates, li.VitaDates, div.VitaDates
{margin-top:12.0pt;
margin-right:0in;
margin-bottom:0in;
margin-left:1.6in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
text-indent:-1.6in;
punctuation-wrap:simple;
text-autospace:none;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Book Antiqua";}
p.VitaHeadings, li.VitaHeadings, div.VitaHeadings
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
text-align:center;
page-break-after:avoid;
punctuation-wrap:simple;
text-autospace:none;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Book Antiqua";
color:black;
font-weight:bold;}
span.EmailStyle26
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:Arial;
color:navy;}
@page Section1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
/* List Definitions */
@list l0
{mso-list-id:1154950907;
mso-list-type:hybrid;
mso-list-template-ids:-343928786 798125090 -1284864802 -1209636544 788566900 1163138634 -1674010664 -1438982650 918845216 -1510284950;}
@list l0:level1
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-style-link:Bullets&Numbering;
mso-level-text:•;
mso-level-tab-stop:.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
font-family:Bernie;}
@list l0:level2
{mso-level-start-at:184;
mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:–;
mso-level-tab-stop:1.0in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
font-family:Bernie;}
ol
{margin-bottom:0in;}
ul
{margin-bottom:0in;}
-->
</style>
</head>
<body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=blue style='word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space'>
<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hi, Keola, <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Yes, this is exactly what I mean. I’m not
familiar with U+02BB. Hyphenation is not an issue in Athapascan; I don’t think
I have ever seen anything hyphenated. But, the glottal has to sort first,
before the vowels it affects, ‘a is a typical form and is actually the most
common glottalization of leading vowels, although other vowels are glottalized
in the same way. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Also, since we don’t have Athapascan
language and grammar, we have to use English, so we have to fool English into
thinking the characters we are typing actually belong to it so we can use
spell-check. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>How do you do this in Hawaiian? I just
looked at my language options for Word, and Hawaiian is a recognized language,
We don’t have this luxury, and although there is now a language code for NAV
and APA, there are differences in the 6 Apaches, and only one language code.
Sigh. People are so stingy, aren’t they? <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Wingdings><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:navy'>J</span></font><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Mia <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Indigenous
Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Keola Donaghy<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, February 14, 2008
1:27 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [ILAT] forum</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Aloha Mia. I'm not sure what you mean by the glottal needed to be a
real character, you mean treated as a letter and not punctuation or other
symbol? There are several similarly shaped characters in the Unicode spec. I
consulted with the Unicode consortium back in 1998 or so to determine which was
best for our purposes. They suggested and we use U+02BB, which is 1) treated
like a letter and 2) does not allow hyphenation after it. Since the glottal is
considered a consonant in Hawaiian and we can't hypenate after a consonant that
was chosen.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>That has caused some issues for us as that character is not common in a
lot of fonts, though is found in those that I posted earlier. When doing web
pages I tend to use a different, identical character to assure that most
viewers will see the glottal properly, but when doing word processing I use
U+02BB, which is the character generated in the Hawaiian keyboard included with
OS X, and with the Win keyboard I developed for Win users. I believe there is
at least one other glottal character in the unicode spec which is treated as a
letter as well, but forget which one it is off the top of my head.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Nice to hear from you as well. Sending aloha from chilly Dunedin, NZ!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Keola<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On 15 Pep. 2008, at 9:12 AM, Mia Kalish wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><span
style='orphans: 2;text-align:auto;widows: 2;-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px;-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0;word-spacing:0px'>It
doesn’t work for rising tone, nasalized Athapascan vowels, especially the “i”,
because you end up with a dot and a high tone mark, which is incorrect. It
doesn’t work well for the glottal, either, because beyond representation, you
need to have the glottal function as a real character. If you take a shortcut
and use the apostrophe, Word and sorting algorithms see it as a punctuation
mark, and represent the word incorrectly.</span></span></font></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<span style='border-spacing: 0px 0px;text-align:auto;-khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none;
-apple-text-size-adjust: auto;orphans: 2;widows: 2;word-spacing:0px'><span
style='border-spacing: 0px 0px;text-align:auto;-khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none;
-apple-text-size-adjust: auto;orphans: 2;widows: 2;word-spacing:0px'>
<div apple-content-edited=true>
<div style='word-wrap: break-word;-khtml-nbsp-mode: space;-khtml-line-break: after-white-space'>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><font size=1 color=black
face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></span></p>
<div style='min-height: 17px'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Lucida Grande"><span style='font-size:
10.5pt;font-family:"Lucida Grande"'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><font size=1 color=black
face=Courier><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black'>========================================================================</span></font></span><font
size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:
Helvetica;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><font size=1 color=black
face=Courier><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black'>Keola
Donaghy
</span></font></span><font size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><font size=1 color=black
face=Courier><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black'>Assistant
Professor of Hawaiian Studies </span></font></span><font size=1
color=black face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><font size=1 color=black
face=Courier><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black'>Ka
Haka 'Ula O Ke'elikolani <a
href="mailto:keola@leoki.uhh.hawaii.edu">keola@leoki.uhh.hawaii.edu</a> </span></font></span><font
size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:
Helvetica;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><font size=1 color=black
face=Courier><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black'>University
of Hawai'i at Hilo <a
href="http://www2.hawaii.edu/~donaghy/">http://www2.hawaii.edu/~donaghy/</a></span></font></span><font
size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:
Helvetica;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='min-height: 17px'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face="Lucida Grande"><span
style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Lucida Grande";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><font size=1 color=black
face=Courier><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black'>"Tír
gan teanga, tír gan anam." (Irish Gaelic saying)</span></font></span><font
size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:
Helvetica;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><font size=1 color=black
face=Courier><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black'>A
country without its language is a country without its soul.</span></font></span><font
size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:
Helvetica;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><font size=1 color=black
face=Courier><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black'>========================================================================</span></font></span><font
size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:
Helvetica;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</span>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'></span><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>