<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Aloha Mia. I'm not sure what you mean by the glottal needed to be a real character, you mean treated as a letter and not punctuation or other symbol? There are several similarly shaped characters in the Unicode spec. I consulted with the Unicode consortium back in 1998 or so to determine which was best for our purposes. They suggested and we use U+02BB, which is 1) treated like a letter and 2) does not allow hyphenation after it. Since the glottal is considered a consonant in Hawaiian and we can't hypenate after a consonant that was chosen.<div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>That has caused some issues for us as that character is not common in a lot of fonts, though is found in those that I posted earlier. When doing web pages I tend to use a different, identical character to assure that most viewers will see the glottal properly, but when doing word processing I use U+02BB, which is the character generated in the Hawaiian keyboard included with OS X, and with the Win keyboard I developed for Win users. I believe there is at least one other glottal character in the unicode spec which is treated as a letter as well, but forget which one it is off the top of my head.</div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>Nice to hear from you as well. Sending aloha from chilly Dunedin, NZ!</div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>Keola</div><div><br><div><div>On 15 Pep. 2008, at 9:12 AM, Mia Kalish wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 128); font-family: Arial; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; ">It doesn’t work for rising tone, nasalized Athapascan vowels, especially the “i”, because you end up with a dot and a high tone mark, which is incorrect. It doesn’t work well for the glottal, either, because beyond representation, you need to have the glottal function as a real character. If you take a shortcut and use the apostrophe, Word and sorting algorithms see it as a punctuation mark, and represent the word incorrectly.</span></blockquote></div><br><div apple-content-edited="true"> <span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; -khtml-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 14px/normal Lucida Grande; min-height: 17px; ; font-family: Lucida Grande; font-size: 14px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;; font-family: Courier; "><br style="font-family: Courier; "></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; ">========================================================================</span></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; ">Keola Donaghy</span></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; "> </span></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; ">Assistant Professor of Hawaiian Studies</span></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; "> </span></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; ">Ka Haka 'Ula O Ke'elikolani </span></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; "> </span></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; "><a href="mailto:keola@leoki.uhh.hawaii.edu">keola@leoki.uhh.hawaii.edu</a></span></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; "> </span></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; ">University of Hawai'i at Hilo </span></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; "> </span></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; "><a href="http://www2.hawaii.edu/~donaghy/">http://www2.hawaii.edu/~donaghy/</a></span></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 14px/normal Lucida Grande; min-height: 17px; ; font-family: Lucida Grande; font-size: 14px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;; font-family: Courier; "><br style="font-family: Courier; "></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; ">"Tír gan teanga, tír gan anam."</span></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; "> </span></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; ">(Irish Gaelic saying)</span></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; ">A country without its language is a country without its soul.</span></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; ">========================================================================</span></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><br class="khtml-block-placeholder"></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></span></div></span> </div><br></div></body></html>