<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Aloha Mia. I don't know if the language scripts in Unicode have anything to do with sorting routines. When we worked with Apple to get the Hawaiian keyboard into OS X back in 1991 or 1992, we provided them with our preferred sort order (vowels, Hawaiian consonants with the glottal last among those, then the borrowed consonants). We also had to define the vowel-macrons as a secondary sort, so that if there were (and there are) words that differ only based on the presence of a macron over a vowel, the word with non-macron is first, then the macron vowel. <div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>It took us several years of lobbying and it was only a chance meeting of a friend of mine who works at Apple's headquarters with some Apple system engineers that led to us getting Hawaiian support in OS X. They have since added may more languages. So we have the Hawaiian keyboard, a Hawaiian locale (which enables us to create localizations of OS X applications and have them automatically displayed if there is a localization available), as well as the custom sort routines and localized date and time strings.</div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>When we created our HI fonts in the early 1990s, spell-checkers were also an issue. That is why we replaced the y-umlaut character ( ÿ ) with the glottal (‘) and replaced the vowel - umlaut combinations with the vowel macrons. In the case of the ÿ, it also had the advantage of allowing us to sort properly (in most cases). Back then ClarisWorks and Word did not accept punctuation marks and other symbols within words, so we had to find a way to make it work, and settled on ÿ. </div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>Office for Vista now handles custom spell-check documents with in Unicode fine. Office for XP and Office for Mac 2004 did not, which was an issue. I have not yet received a copy of Office 2008 for Mac so don't know if it can use spell-check documents formated in Unicode yet. We are working on such a document right now. At some point I'll have a single document that can spell-check both documents typed in our old HI font system as well as Unicode. I'll be a happy man on that day. ;-)</div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>I'll look into the other Unicode glottal characters, perhaps someone here is more familiar with them than I. To be honest, I somewhat regret our decision to use the non-breaking character because it is available in so few fonts, however, that it was the one I was encouraged to use by people who knew better than I. </div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>We're in a very strange transitional place right now in our adaptation of Unicode. Because of one particular application that we depend heavily upon, we have not been able to completely abandon our old custom fonts and go to Unicode. I'm hoping to have that issue taken care of by this summer.</div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>I'll get back to you on the other glottal character(s).</div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>Hope this help! Feel free to email if I can be of any other assistance.</div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>Keola<br><div><div><div><br><div><div>On 15 Pep. 2008, at 4:26 PM, Mia Kalish wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">Yes, this is exactly what I mean. I’m not familiar with U+02BB. Hyphenation is not an issue in Athapascan; I don’t think I have ever seen anything hyphenated. But, the glottal has to sort first, before the vowels it affects, ‘a is a typical form and is actually the most common glottalization of leading vowels, although other vowels are glottalized in the same way.<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">Also, since we don’t have Athapascan language and grammar, we have to use English, so we have to fool English into thinking the characters we are typing actually belong to it so we can use spell-check.<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">How do you do this in Hawaiian? I just looked at my language options for Word, and Hawaiian is a recognized language, We don’t have this luxury, and although there is now a language code for NAV and APA, there are differences in the 6 Apaches, and only one language code. Sigh. People are so stingy, aren’t they?<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div></span></blockquote></div><br><div apple-content-edited="true"> <span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; -khtml-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 14px/normal Lucida Grande; min-height: 17px; ; font-family: Lucida Grande; font-size: 14px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;; font-family: Courier; "><br style="font-family: Courier; "></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; ">========================================================================</span></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; ">Keola Donaghy</span></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; "> </span></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; ">Assistant Professor of Hawaiian Studies</span></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; "> </span></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; ">Ka Haka 'Ula O Ke'elikolani </span></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; "> </span></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; "><a href="mailto:keola@leoki.uhh.hawaii.edu">keola@leoki.uhh.hawaii.edu</a></span></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; "> </span></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; ">University of Hawai'i at Hilo </span></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; "> </span></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; "><a href="http://www2.hawaii.edu/~donaghy/">http://www2.hawaii.edu/~donaghy/</a></span></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 14px/normal Lucida Grande; min-height: 17px; ; font-family: Lucida Grande; font-size: 14px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;; font-family: Courier; "><br style="font-family: Courier; "></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; ">"Tír gan teanga, tír gan anam."</span></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; "> </span></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; ">(Irish Gaelic saying)</span></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; ">A country without its language is a country without its soul.</span></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Courier; ">========================================================================</span></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><br class="khtml-block-placeholder"></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></span></div></span> </div><br></div></div></div></div></body></html>