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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Are you in New Zealand? I thought you were
in Hawaii? <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I Absolutely Agree about getting wider
support for the fonts, but so far, I have determined that reason, logic, and
right-thinking don’t always work very well. It’s true we can pay to have the
fonts developed, and make them available for distribution, but that can get
expensive. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The way I have observed seems to work best
– judging from all the acquisitions – is to have something someone else wants.
Like our fonts that we are happily modifying ourselves. Then, people will
decide there is a way to make money from them, and they will acquire or develop
support. And it’s done. Although for some, like the Apachean family, changes
have to happen in the ISO standards before there can be a nice localization.
And, the grammar checking doesn’t fit the linearly oriented LEX style, because
heads are embedded, so we need new paradigms for both grammar and
spell-checking if they are to become automated. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I am impressed by your programming skills,
by the way. All these years I have known you and I never knew. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Wingdings><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:navy'>J</span></font><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Mia <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Indigenous
Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Keola Donaghy<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, February 14, 2008
9:24 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [ILAT] forum</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On 15 Pep. 2008, at 5:05 PM, Mia Kalish wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt' type=cite>
<div link=blue vlink=blue style='word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>You know what? (Of course you don’t that was So Rhetorical). . .
but here’s what: <u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>If you own the font, you can modify it. So if you have a pile of
fonts for the University, you can change them yourself . . . or have a friend
to it for you (You have such a friend). That way, you can have the special
character in a pile of fonts.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt' type=cite>
<div link=blue vlink=blue style='word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>I imagine there is a way around this for others, because the
Intellectual Property rules restrict distribution of fonts to people who don’t
own them. It doesn’t say that if you own the font, you and your friends can’t
modify it. The rule is that you can modify it for your own use.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Yes. We have a few hundred postscript fonts that we've modified over
the years for our own, in-house use. That's how we created the HI fonts. We do
have a couple that were based on some free fonts (similar to Helv, Times,
Palatino and Courier), and the creator of those fonts gave us his blessing to
make the fonts available to the public. Those are the four (HI Keawe, HI
Manokalanipo, HI Pi'ilani, and HI Kakuhihewa) which are downloadable from our
website, along with the fonts.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>We could easily modify the fonts again to add the glottal and macrons
in the correct Unicode locations, but we're more concerned with widespread
support for the language - getting the foundries and system vendors to include
them in the fonts that everyone gets, since so much of our work is not going
web-based. We donʻt want people to have to download special fonts anymore to
type and print Hawaiian.<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt' type=cite>
<div link=blue vlink=blue style='word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>I haven’t played with the scripting in Unicode, because the
characters are all individually coded with their unique numbers. Three
character compositions have 3 sequential 4-byte codes (I think), and possibly a
compositing instruction code. That means that if you are manually coding
Unicode, the sequence in which you specify the characters matters, with the
obvious results if people choose sequences randomly, thinking that the
appearance of the character is what is important.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>You description sounds like the fonts were manually coded.
Characters sort by their internal number; when you specified your preferred
sort sequence, whoever was helping recoded the glyphs so they would sort in the
specified order. Locales, lucky people <</span></font><font size=2
color=navy face=Wingdings><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;
color:navy'>J</span></font><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>> People don’t notice
localization because they don’t have to live without it.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>No, the characters we use are found in some, but not all, Mac and Win
fonts. Many have the macron-vowel characters, few have the glottal. The common
ones that do are Lucida Grande (Mac) and Lucida Sans Unicode (Win). Regarding
sorting, Apple created the system-level sort routines based on our input. I've
never bothered to see how the sorting worked when the Hawaiian locale in the
"International" system pref was not selected. That's what triggers our
preferred sorting.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt' type=cite><u1:p></u1:p><u1:p>
<div link=blue vlink=blue style='word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'> <span style='-webkit-text-stroke-width: -1'></span></font><span
class=apple-style-span><font size=1 color="#144fae" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#144FAE'>I don’t have Vista,
although the changes sound intriguing. As for OneSpellCheck fits OldAndNew . .
. the internal codes are different. The simplest approach is to have a utility
that converts one to the other . . . this means that the utility has to tiptoe
through Word codes, changing only the appropriate font codes. This is not
overly difficult for a programmer, but is definitely non-trivial for many. Our
problem in Athapascan with “old fonts” is that people replaced the Number sequence
with the special vowels and characters. Can you see what an amazing nightmare
that is for sorting, searching, databases? Aaaargh. But then, it was all people
seemed to know how to do.</span></span></font></u1:p></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>The Vista spell-check functionality requires that user spell check dictionaries
be encoded as Unicode. I thought that this was an issue, but realized our
umlaut characters are represented in Unicode as well. I simply resaved the list
as Unicode (keeping the umlaut characters) and it works fine. A document typed
using our HI fonts works fine. I then converted the entire word list, converted
it to Hawaiian Unicode using a macro I wrote. I appended this list to the
bottom of the previously mentioned list and saved. So the spell check document
contains two complete lists - one in HI format and one in Unicode. That one
document allows you to spell check either HI formatted or Unicode formatted
documents. I did have to go through and remove duplicates - words which lacked
both glottal and macron vowels which would appear in both lists - but that was
pretty easy. If I could only remember how I did it ;-)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt' type=cite><u1:p><span
style='-webkit-text-stroke-width: -1'>
<div link=blue vlink=blue style='word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
class=apple-style-span><font size=1 color="#144fae" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#144FAE'>I took particular
delight in “stepping on” characters that were not used in either English or
Athapascan to create my fonts. It horrified the Unicode people, which,
considering their complete non-responsiveness to Apachean issues, made my
little techie heart day. (I’m so bad.)</span></span></font></u1:p></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Good for you!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt' type=cite>
<div link=blue vlink=blue style='word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>I’m interested in your issues with your ancient program . . . </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>For another day... or year perhaps. It was FirstClass. They were slow
to become Unicode compliant, and then to update their localization program so
we could continue to translate the Client into Hawaiian and use Unicode to
represent the language in menus and such. They are addressing that now and I
hope to have a new client and server up this summer that will free us of our
dependance on the custom fonts.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt' type=cite>
<div link=blue vlink=blue style='word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>And thanks, I’m sure this discussion is or will be useful for lots
of people.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>Going out into the Tsaile AZ mountain snow, now coming down in huge
clots.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>No snow in NZ but getting cold, by our standards ;-)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Aloha,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Keola<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<u1:p>
<div link=blue vlink=blue style='word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'> </u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><u1:p> </u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:
bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Indigenous Languages and Technology [<a
href="mailto:ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU">mailto:ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU</a>] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Keola Donaghy<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, February 14, 2008
8:47 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <a
href="mailto:ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU">ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU</a><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [ILAT] forum</span></font><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><u1:p> </u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Aloha Mia. I don't
know if the language scripts in Unicode have anything to do with sorting
routines. When we worked with Apple to get the Hawaiian keyboard into OS X back
in 1991 or 1992, we provided them with our preferred sort order (vowels,
Hawaiian consonants with the glottal last among those, then the borrowed
consonants). We also had to define the vowel-macrons as a secondary sort, so
that if there were (and there are) words that differ only based on the presence
of a macron over a vowel, the word with non-macron is first, then the macron
vowel. <u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><u1:p> </u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>It took us several
years of lobbying and it was only a chance meeting of a friend of mine who
works at Apple's headquarters with some Apple system engineers that led to us
getting Hawaiian support in OS X. They have since added may more languages. So
we have the Hawaiian keyboard, a Hawaiian locale (which enables us to create
localizations of OS X applications and have them automatically displayed if
there is a localization available), as well as the custom sort routines and
localized date and time strings.<u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><u1:p> </u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>When we created
our HI fonts in the early 1990s, spell-checkers were also an issue. That is why
we replaced the y-umlaut character ( ÿ ) with the glottal (‘) and replaced the
vowel - umlaut combinations with the vowel macrons. In the case of the ÿ, it
also had the advantage of allowing us to sort properly (in most cases). Back
then ClarisWorks and Word did not accept punctuation marks and other symbols
within words, so we had to find a way to make it work, and settled on ÿ. <u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><u1:p> </u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Office for Vista
now handles custom spell-check documents with in Unicode fine. Office for XP
and Office for Mac 2004 did not, which was an issue. I have not yet received a
copy of Office 2008 for Mac so don't know if it can use spell-check documents
formated in Unicode yet. We are working on such a document right now. At some
point I'll have a single document that can spell-check both documents typed in
our old HI font system as well as Unicode. I'll be a happy man on that day. ;-)<u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><u1:p> </u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>I'll look into the
other Unicode glottal characters, perhaps someone here is more familiar with
them than I. To be honest, I somewhat regret our decision to use the
non-breaking character because it is available in so few fonts, however, that
it was the one I was encouraged to use by people who knew better than I. <u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><u1:p> </u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>We're in a very
strange transitional place right now in our adaptation of Unicode. Because of
one particular application that we depend heavily upon, we have not been able
to completely abandon our old custom fonts and go to Unicode. I'm hoping to
have that issue taken care of by this summer.<u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><u1:p> </u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>I'll get back to
you on the other glottal character(s).<u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><u1:p> </u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Hope this help!
Feel free to email if I can be of any other assistance.<u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><u1:p> </u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Keola<u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><u1:p> </u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>On 15 Pep. 2008,
at 4:26 PM, Mia Kalish wrote:<u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<u1:p></u1:p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><span style='orphans: 2;text-align:auto;widows: 2;-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px;-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0;word-spacing:0px'>Yes,
this is exactly what I mean. I’m not familiar with U+02BB. Hyphenation is not
an issue in Athapascan; I don’t think I have ever seen anything hyphenated.
But, the glottal has to sort first, before the vowels it affects, ‘a is a
typical form and is actually the most common glottalization of leading vowels,
although other vowels are glottalized in the same way.<u2:p></u2:p></span></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<u1:p></u1:p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><u2:p> </u2:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<u1:p></u1:p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>Also, since we don’t have Athapascan language and grammar, we have
to use English, so we have to fool English into thinking the characters we are
typing actually belong to it so we can use spell-check.<u2:p></u2:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<u1:p></u1:p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><u2:p> </u2:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<u1:p></u1:p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>How do you do this in Hawaiian? I just looked at my language
options for Word, and Hawaiian is a recognized language, We don’t have this
luxury, and although there is now a language code for NAV and APA, there are
differences in the 6 Apaches, and only one language code. Sigh. People are so
stingy, aren’t they?<u2:p></u2:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<u1:p></u1:p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><u2:p> </u2:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<u1:p></u1:p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><u1:p> </u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<span style='border-spacing: 0px 0px;text-align:auto;-khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none;
-apple-text-size-adjust: auto;orphans: 2;widows: 2;word-spacing:0px'><span
style='border-spacing: 0px 0px;text-align:auto;-khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none;
-apple-text-size-adjust: auto;orphans: 2;widows: 2;word-spacing:0px'><u1:p>
<div apple-content-edited=true>
<div style='word-wrap: break-word;-khtml-nbsp-mode: space;-khtml-line-break: after-white-space'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
class=apple-style-span><font size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'> </u1:p></span></font></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<u1:p>
<div style='min-height: 17px'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 face="Lucida Grande"><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Lucida Grande"'> </u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
class=apple-style-span><font size=1 color=black face=Courier><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black'>========================================================================</span></font></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<u1:p></u1:p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
class=apple-style-span><font size=1 color=black face=Courier><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black'>Keola Donaghy
</span></font></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<u1:p></u1:p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
class=apple-style-span><font size=1 color=black face=Courier><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black'>Assistant Professor of
Hawaiian Studies </span></font></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<u1:p></u1:p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
class=apple-style-span><font size=1 color=black face=Courier><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black'>Ka Haka 'Ula O
Ke'elikolani <a
href="mailto:keola@leoki.uhh.hawaii.edu">keola@leoki.uhh.hawaii.edu</a> </span></font></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<u1:p></u1:p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
class=apple-style-span><font size=1 color=black face=Courier><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black'>University of Hawai'i
at Hilo <a
href="http://www2.hawaii.edu/~donaghy/">http://www2.hawaii.edu/~donaghy/</a></span></font></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<u1:p></u1:p><u1:p>
<div style='min-height: 17px'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=black face="Lucida Grande"><span style='font-size:10.5pt;
font-family:"Lucida Grande";color:black'> </u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
class=apple-style-span><font size=1 color=black face=Courier><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black'>"Tír gan teanga,
tír gan anam." (Irish Gaelic saying)</span></font></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<u1:p></u1:p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
class=apple-style-span><font size=1 color=black face=Courier><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black'>A country without its
language is a country without its soul.</span></font></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<u1:p></u1:p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
class=apple-style-span><font size=1 color=black face=Courier><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black'>========================================================================</span></font></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<u1:p></u1:p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:
Helvetica;color:black'><u1:p> </u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:
Helvetica;color:black'><br>
<br>
<br>
</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<u1:p></u1:p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><u1:p><span style='font-size:12.0pt'></span> <o:p></o:p></span></u1:p></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<span style='border-spacing: 0px 0px;text-align:auto;-khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none;
-apple-text-size-adjust: auto;orphans: 2;widows: 2;word-spacing:0px'><span
style='border-spacing: 0px 0px;text-align:auto;-khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none;
-apple-text-size-adjust: auto;orphans: 2;widows: 2;word-spacing:0px'>
<div apple-content-edited=true>
<div style='word-wrap: break-word;-khtml-nbsp-mode: space;-khtml-line-break: after-white-space'>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><font size=1 color=black
face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></span></p>
<div style='min-height: 17px'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Lucida Grande"><span style='font-size:
10.5pt;font-family:"Lucida Grande"'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><font size=1 color=black
face=Courier><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black'>========================================================================</span></font></span><font
size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:
Helvetica;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><font size=1 color=black
face=Courier><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black'>Keola
Donaghy
</span></font></span><font size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><font size=1 color=black
face=Courier><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black'>Assistant
Professor of Hawaiian Studies </span></font></span><font size=1
color=black face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><font size=1 color=black
face=Courier><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black'>Ka
Haka 'Ula O Ke'elikolani <a
href="mailto:keola@leoki.uhh.hawaii.edu">keola@leoki.uhh.hawaii.edu</a> </span></font></span><font
size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:
Helvetica;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><font size=1 color=black
face=Courier><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black'>University
of Hawai'i at Hilo <a
href="http://www2.hawaii.edu/~donaghy/">http://www2.hawaii.edu/~donaghy/</a></span></font></span><font
size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:
Helvetica;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='min-height: 17px'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face="Lucida Grande"><span
style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Lucida Grande";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><font size=1 color=black
face=Courier><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black'>"Tír
gan teanga, tír gan anam." (Irish Gaelic saying)</span></font></span><font
size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:
Helvetica;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><font size=1 color=black
face=Courier><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black'>A
country without its language is a country without its soul.</span></font></span><font
size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:
Helvetica;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><font size=1 color=black
face=Courier><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black'>========================================================================</span></font></span><font
size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:
Helvetica;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</span>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'></span><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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